My theory is that progressives of the time, in the US and elsewhere, were so enthralled by the success of the revolution, that they turned a blind eye to its failures. There was a willfull blindness, willed by devotion to the cause.

It seems to me that the same blindness effects the anti-war movement of today in Iraq.

We see there is horrible bloodshed, oppression and torture in Iraq, and we essentially ignore it. Oh, there's a tip of the hat, but no outrage. We are willfully blind because of our devotion to a greater cause -- destroying the imperialist capitalist regime of the US.

I think this is a dangerous trend -- forgiving the worst excesses of tyrants to further a cause.

You mean we can't blindly support Israel and should expose its leaders for the murders, thugs, thieves, racists and oppressors that they are? I never heard anyone on the left blindly support the Baath Party. I've heard plenty of self-congratulatory enemies of "extremism" blindly support Zionism.

...Zionism? I'm an avid supporter of it.

..ya nazi zionist beeeeyaaaath!!!

..ya nazi zionist beeeeyaaaath!!!

...being a Nazi?

...BOOOOOOring.

I did not post the above comment.

Daveman, why don't you tell us what you think of the use of torture by Israeli interrigators, the recent murder of an American woman by running over her with a bull-dozer, the murder of Palestinians by pulling down their houses with them still inside, the massacr at Deir Yassin, the murder of Folk Bernadotte, the bombing of the King David Hotel by Menachem Begin and his fellow thugs, the 1982 invasion of Lebanon, the cowardly invasion of Egypt in 1956 when that nation was already under attack by Britain and France, and the refusal to allow the Arabs who were expelled in 1948 to return to their homeland, along with their children and grandchildren?

I have no problem with the torture of Palestinians. I hate the very fiber of their being.

You are a sick man.

Hush, now...people with important things to say are talking.

ML: Most of what you speak of I have not researched, and therefore have no opinion.

Rachel Corey was not murdered; people who get in front of heavy machinery should realize that it might hurt them if they don't get out of the way. A tragic loss; but she made her choice to support terrorists and the unfortunate decision cost her her life.

The IDF repeatedly warns those inside houses before they knock them down. The occupants should know by now that when the IDF says they're going to knock down a house, they're going to knock down a house.

You've never heard anyone on the left blindly support the Ba'ath Party? Any action that opposed the removal of the Ba'ath Party from power was blind support for them.

Now, why don't you tell me what you think of the homicide bombing committed by Palestinians, killing old people and children, whose only offense is being jewish?

"Hush, now...people with important things to say are talking."

Well? I'm waiting.

I am against them, but I also realize that they are going to continue until the right of return is recognized for Palestinians and they are allowed to vote and live in Israel. The recent violence, by the way, was deliberately provoked by Sharon for his own political benefit. First he led a procession of religious fanatics into a Muslim holy area, rightfully figuring that this would stir up violence and rioting and get him elected. Now he murders Arabs at will, knowing full well that this will provoke bloody reprisals and help keep him in office, where he can pursue his utimate goal of expelling all Arabs from the West Bank.

Yawn yawn yawn.

And for variety, yawn.

Way to go, daveman. Whenever we conservatives have nothing intelligent to say, we can always just sit there and yawn. Great job!

...the palestinian goal of pushing all the Jews into the sea?

The "right of return"? Oh, yeah...their bogus claim to the area.

Don't you know there never was a Palestine? Read this: http://www.rbooker.com/roots/articles/mideast_pal.htm

because Lenin insisted that difficult people be executed for the "greater good". Lenein got the Sivets off to a bad start and Stalin merely continued the tradition with greater gusto.

Lenin was no more a Communist than Bush Admirer. He was merely a fascist in marxist clothes.

Almost every living person on the planet now realises that Communism is impossible because it is totally contrary to human nature. People need to compete, to have something to fight for. Maybe if we evolve a bit more we can have a complete and equal sharing of resources in 2 million years but for now, the free market and enlightened welfare programs are the best political frameworks for our species.

Any attempts at Communism in the real world quickly become hijacked by dictators like Lenin, Stalin, Castro.

Astonishingly though, I have seen mention of a group called Marxist Forum in England. Amazing.

You are revealing your complete ignorance of the history of the Middle East, Daveman. Modern DNA testing indicates that there has been not significant change in the makeup of Palestine's population between ancient times and 1948. Even the Bible admits that there were people called Canaanites living there before Moses's followers, who were probably made up partially of Egyptians, arrived. That is aside from the fact that in late ancient and early Medieval times whole villages of Jews converted, either voluntarily or under pressure, to Christianity or Islam. Their desendents are presumably living in refugee camps today or working as waiters, maids and bus boys in Tel Aviv. The masses of European Jews who arrived after 1948 are, for the most part, the desendents of Slavs and Germans who converted to Judaism early in the Middle Ages or of Turkic tribes like the Khazars who also converted to this religion in order to avoid being absorbed by the powerful Byzantine Christian and Muslim states which were nearby.
Even if European and North American Jews were the biological descendents of the ancient Israelites, a claim that they therefore had a right to steal land from Arabs and then expel them would be as absurd as Hitler's claim that Germanic tribes lived in Eastern Europe in ancient times so he therefore had a right to steal this area from its 1940 inhabitants. In other words, it is fascist ideology. The fact that many of the "settlers" who came to live on land stolen from Arab peasants had light hair and blue eyes and were clearly not of Middle Eastern origin just makes an already ridiculous claim on the land that much more ridiculous.

...what you got to believe, if that's what it takes to justify the intifada to yourself.

I think I'll pass on your version, though.

Thanks for believing OUR version of history.

> I weep for the future of our country.

Cry a river, use up a kleenex factory, go piss in your mama's pancakes for all we care. We're here, we run all 3 branches of government, and we'll do what we damn well please. And one day should the Dems come back, we'll keep em so tied up in knots they won't have time to screw up anything.

You sound as though you're in need of some professional counseling.

Cry baby cry,
Make your mother sigh
She's old enough to know better,
So cry baby cry.

Fox News is loved and viewed by millions. Pisses you off, don' t it?? Tough.

I hate to break the news to you, Josef, but there are dozens, perhaps hundreds of Marxist, socialist and anarchist websites in existence in Britain and the US alone. You, with your primitive ideas about "human nature" and your obvious ignorance of the violent and bloody means by which capitalism came into being, would not enjoy them, though. You sound like a candidate for one of the pro-capitalist death squads in El Salvador.

You're simply denying reality. Communism could never work, dictators always take over. Stalin? Mao?

Come on, it's a foolish dream.

"Fox News is loved and viewed by millions."
Yes, we do love our braindead viewers. We also know when some of them need counseling. Please seek it.

"Come on, it's a foolish dream."
Much unlike capitalism. I get an erection whenever I think about invading another country. Care for some CIA nosecandy?

Josef, I'll admit that you seem a little primitive. But kindly omit the "we" and speak for yourself.

Cos the marxist dialectical hegelian shmiggle wiggle analyis of history was a crock of shit. Democratic insitiutions are the only protection form the tyrants among our species.