wipe your ass with the American flag. save a tree. if you're still using toilet paper, you're part of the problem.

imagine wiping your brown eye with a soft luxurious 100% cotton symbol of our nation. what's more patriotic than sustainability.

USA #2

note: if the flag has been liberated from a neighbor, fire truck or pro war demonstrator it's advisble to wash the flag first since you don't know where it's been.

add your own comments






The flag needs a few brown stripes
Georgia Brown 11:47am Thu Apr 17 '03
comment#60112


The flag needs a few brown stripes. And this seems like a good moneysaver at my house.
Especially if the flag has been taken rather than bought.

This might be a good Earth Day tip.

Your residue is your dissent.



I do not approve
Mr. Whipple 12:06pm Thu Apr 17 '03
comment#60118



I do not approve



exporting liberty
Debby 12:56pm Thu Apr 17 '03
comment#60130


I prefer to think of number-two as "exporting liberty".


FROM: JAKE


It's a historical fact that members of dying organizations and socio-delusionary beliefs lash out in absurd, sometimes abhorrent, and often criminal behavior to draw attention to themselves.
One only needs to examine the Jim Jones tragedy, or the Waco, Texas fiasco to fully understand the last-gasp scenarios such groups play en masse.
And when a full analysis is taken of the events, it comes as no surprise that there's always a contradiction played out somewhere among the core leaders of the group.
For example, Jim Jones didn't take the poison, most likely because he witnessed the agonizing deaths his members suffered. So, instead, he just put a bullet to his head to end it quickly.
Hitler also preferred to end his life quickly instead of face down the world as a man.
And then, of course, remain the elite of the Hussein regime..running away long before they orderd their troops to commit suicide themselves by facing down their enemies.
And now, as your fellow countrymen look at you desperately trying to gain attention to yourselves..the best you can come up with is...wipe your ass with the American flag.
Personally, I don't care if you do or not, because I never intend on watching your goofy and childish action.
Unless, of course, you elect to make it public.
If you do that around me, I will simply kick your sorry ass into the nearest gutter where you belong.
However, if I see that you are shamelessly performing such a display in front of innocent women or children, I promise you I will elect to take MY American flag away from you and wrap it around your pansy neck.
And take the end you soiled and shove it down your throat.

Yes it is much better to die for the flag. For the flag is a piece of fabric worth dying for.

Erh, well actually they are mostly polyester, which is made from oil, oil that our brave heroes in our mercenary armies are willing to die for. Anyone who disagrees is not a hero and must be executed.

For to die for the colors of the Fathertland is a worthy death for all Americans, as long as they are under 30, need $$ for school, and hopefully not white.

Red white and blue, they never run, but some say they sure murder, torture and desecrate a lot. It does not matter, they are a worthy symbol for our great barbaric nation.

Go die for these colors today!

Thanx Ronald.

With people like you around in the mid-1700's, we would still be an English colony.

Now go butt fuck Mayor McCheese.

One of the great attractions of patriotism - it fulfills our worst wishes. In the person of our nation we are able, vicariously, to bully and cheat. Bully and cheat, what's more, with a feeling that we are profoundly virtuous.

I realize some of you right wingers might have to use a dictionary to figure out the above quote. Oh well, so be it.

>I realize some of you right wingers might have to use a dictionary

Oh, yeah. You're really the bright one.

We were attacked. It's not a matter of feeling morally superior. If that's the case, I shouldn't lock my front door because I'm making it so that I'm morally superior to those who would break in and steal and I'm bullying and cheating them out of taking advantage of me. And if terroritsts started attacking Peru, they have every right to hunt down those responsible and anyone connected to them. That's the way of the world whether you get over it or not.

Fucking liars.***
"For example, Jim Jones didn't take the poison, most likely because he witnessed the agonizing deaths his members suffered. So, instead, he just put a bullet to his head
to end it quickly"
***
Old lies, and they still stink
How many times have the murders at Jonestown been used to rationalize mass murder like at WACO? Poison cool aid my ass.
Read this:
http://www.anomalous-images.com/text/FIRESK20.TXT

I wouldn't be so paranoid if Bo Gritz would stop following me around. Also, why are there two moons in the sky? Has anyone read Dhalgren backwards? How many anarchists does it take to form a consensus that perhaps it's time to change the lightbulb? I'd never want to be part of a conspiracy that would have me as a plotter. Oh, I'm so alone. Where are the Cheez-its? When will this nightmare end. There's a little Area 51 in all of us.......

sometimes in my dreams I see a statute of Jesus made entirely of cheeseburgers. Bo, you look so lovely in the moonlight......

To die for a piece of fabric is stupidity. Your life, anyones life, is far too valuable a gift to sacrifice for a piece of fabric.

The lie that the flag, or any mere symbol of natl. identity is worthy of death was perpetuated by the British in WW1 and in particular the poet Lord Byron and has been continued by all warring armies. It is a lie.

"With liberty and justice for all."

>identity is worthy of death was perpetuated by the British in WW1 and in particular the poet Lord Byron and has been continued by all warring armies.

morituri te salutamus

Goes back way further than WW1. Even further than the above quote.

Throughout history, people have found causes they believe are worth dying for, whether for man or country or personal honor. Because you don't approve or like it doesn't make it a lie. There are people who believe nothing is worth dying for. I would much perfer to have someone like that attack me than defend me.

More on Jonestown for the weasel imparred.
And for the rest of the folks.
***
“Dr. C. Leslie Mootoo, then
Guyana’s chief medical examiner
and the first physician on the scene
after Congressman Ryan’s death,
worked nonstop for 32 hours,
examining 187 bodies murdered by
injection before he and his team
gave up due to the stifling heat.
Many others had been shot, Ryan
himself reportedly 12 times...***
http://www.freedommag.org/english/vol29I4/page10.htm
http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/institutional_analysis/jones.html
http://www.geocities.com/northstarzone/JONESTOWN.html

Hey, I heard there's a wreck on the freeway. It's Bush' fault.

Hey, my kid fell down and hurt her knee. It's Bush' fault.

Hey, Jim Jones had both names that started with the letter "J". It's Bush' fault.

Did you mention Jonestown?
Thought you’d never ask...
***
“first raid, and the principal target, Leo Ryan was finished off with a point-blank shot gun blast to
the head. He was later reported to have had twelve gunshot wounds. Of note was that an alleged CIA
operative, William Dwyer, deputy chief of the United States embassy in Guyana, lay nearby and
survived unscathed. He soon returned to Jonestown. What is also not dealt with in the official
scenario of Jonestown, is that there were also troops and a military plane on the airstrip at the same
time as Leo Ryan was there. Why were they there? “
http://www.cultawarenessnetwork.org/AUM/SECTION_2/07.html

Sheepdog,

Your conspiracy theories are not worth considering.

Go play in the yard.

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Nice job to attempt to screw up the wrap.
The excuse of Jonestown has been used to
acclimatize the idea of mass murder to the
public. It was used to 'justify' the massacre
at WACO.
Despite the clutter of CNN like cover ups
the questions have not been answered.
Blow me.

To the guy who made a threat on the flag pooper, that is called assault, you cannot go around making threats. When I find out who you are, I'll make sure the LAPD has a chance to brutalize you. I may not agree with them, but I'm sure at least one or two will have fun tracking you down. In fact, I want it noted that every threat should be recorded on this site and that if we can't stop escheleon from invading us, at least we can use to it jail assholes who beat up and threaten free speech.

To the flag pooper, make sure you fart real smelly after, you want to have the whole effect of how bad we stink in this country. When a polyester flag, made in China, is more important than non-violence or love, it is funny how much a symbol of Americas failure that really is.

Thanks for all the links on Jonestown. I have been looking for some good background on it.

I knew from some of my other reading that it was likely a mass murder but did not have any good clear resources on what we know about it.

Thanks again.

Viva La Resistance'!

Here's a link to order information on our hidden history
Thanks to the Prevailing Winds Research prople at PCC
where it started.
http://www.silcom.com/~patrick/pwrcat.htm
Stay tuned...

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.



2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that anarchists "are in favour
of the private property which cannot be used by one
person to exploit another." Reinventing Anarchy, p. 49]
In other words, property which is no longer truly private
as it is used by those who do not own it. In effect, the
key point of Proudhon's What is Property?, namely the
difference between possession and property. Which
means that rather than desire the abolition of all forms
of "private property," socialists (of all kinds, libertarian
and authoritarian) desire the abolition of a specific
kind of property, namely that kind which allows the
exploitation and domination of others. To ignore this
distinction is to paint a very misleading picture of what
socialism stands for.

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.



2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that anarchists "are in favour
of the private property which cannot be used by one
person to exploit another." Reinventing Anarchy, p. 49]
In other words, property which is no longer truly private
as it is used by those who do not own it. In effect, the
key point of Proudhon's What is Property?, namely the
difference between possession and property. Which
means that rather than desire the abolition of all forms
of "private property," socialists (of all kinds, libertarian
and authoritarian) desire the abolition of a specific
kind of property, namely that kind which allows the
exploitation and domination of others. To ignore this
distinction is to paint a very misleading picture of what
socialism stands for.

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.



2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that anarchists "are in favour
of the private property which cannot be used by one
person to exploit another." Reinventing Anarchy, p. 49]
In other words, property which is no longer truly private
as it is used by those who do not own it. In effect, the
key point of Proudhon's What is Property?, namely the
difference between possession and property. Which
means that rather than desire the abolition of all forms
of "private property," socialists (of all kinds, libertarian
and authoritarian) desire the abolition of a specific
kind of property, namely that kind which allows the
exploitation and domination of others. To ignore this
distinction is to paint a very misleading picture of what
socialism stands for.

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.



2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that anarchists "are in favour
of the private property which cannot be used by one
person to exploit another." Reinventing Anarchy, p. 49]
In other words, property which is no longer truly private
as it is used by those who do not own it. In effect, the
key point of Proudhon's What is Property?, namely the
difference between possession and property. Which
means that rather than desire the abolition of all forms
of "private property," socialists (of all kinds, libertarian
and authoritarian) desire the abolition of a specific
kind of property, namely that kind which allows the
exploitation and domination of others. To ignore this
distinction is to paint a very misleading picture of what
socialism stands for.

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.



2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that a

This thread has even more ludicrous and outrageous nonsense than most IMC pablum.

First we get the Portland anti-flag whacko making an ass of himself.

Then we get Sheepdog revealing his inner paranoia with a completely ridiculous post on Jonestown.

And finally one of our Anarchist whacko intruders stops by.

This beats going to the circus any day.

It is something I have noticed occurring lately. Post a long disrelated article to discourage people from looking at what came before.

Above the SPAM you will notice that Sheepdog provided some very interesting and provative links on the Jonestown Massacre.

I suspect, but cannot prove, that that is why the Spam was thrown up. To discourage people from looking at and following the links.

Oh yes, go Proudhunt
Weak paste and
Anyway, there are schools of thought that the CIA was running another
guns for drugs deal that went bad.
The state dept. ordered body bags
before Sen. Ryan was killed.
***
Dr. C. Leslie Mootoo, the top Guyanese pathologist,
was at Jonestown hours after the deaths, and, refusing
the assistance of U.S. pathologists, accompanied the teams
that examined the bodies. His conclusions? Dr. Mootoo found fresh needle marks at the back of the left shoulder blades
on 80 to 90 percent of the victims. Others had
been shot or strangled. ***
Green berets and Blackwatch special ops went into the jungle and had the survivors brought back, injected or shot.

Just act casual.

You are being watched.

You are closer to the truth than you know.

Do not answer the phone. Unplug your television. Run your virus-checker software immediately. Speak the word "begonia" with a Slavic accent into your doorbell button; this turns off the listening devices.

Throw away all your dairy products; I can't tell you why, BUT THIS IS VITALLY IMPORTANT. YOUR SAFETY DEPENDS ON IT.

DO NOT WEAR THE WHITE SOCKS. They have tracking devices.

When the pizza guys comes, yank his hat off and throw it as far as you can.

This is all I can tell you.

...do you get paid by the word, line, or are you on salary?

...I do this for free.

And it could have also been another MK Ultra project or maybe drugs, guns and MK Ultra.
***
In late 1973, under this new focus of the CIA, Deep
Cover Operative George Philip Blakey made the
initial $650,000 deposit for purchase of what would
become known as "The People's Temple" in Guyana,
under the management of Reverend Jim Jones. During
this period, Jones moved his People's Temple from
California to Guyana, where the Agency felt it would
be isolated and kept away from public or government
scrutiny which might interfere with the operation.
http://www.totse.com/en/conspiracy/mind_control/jjones.html

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.


2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that anarchists "are in favour
of the private property which cannot be used by one
person to exploit another." Reinventing Anarchy, p. 49]
In other words, property which is no longer truly private
as it is used by those who do not own it. In effect, the
key point of Proudhon's What is Property?, namely the
difference between possession and property. Which
means that rather than desire the abolition of all forms
of "private property," socialists (of all kinds, libertarian
and authoritarian) desire the abolition of a specific
kind of property, namely that kind which allows the
exploitation and domination of others. To ignore this
distinction is to paint a very misleading picture of what
socialism stands for.

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.


2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that anarchists "are in favour
of the private property which cannot be used by one
person to exploit another." Reinventing Anarchy, p. 49]
In other words, property which is no longer truly private
as it is used by those who do not own it. In effect, the
key point of Proudhon's What is Property?, namely the
difference between possession and property. Which
means that rather than desire the abolition of all forms
of "private property," socialists (of all kinds, libertarian
and authoritarian) desire the abolition of a specific
kind of property, namely that kind which allows the
exploitation and domination of others. To ignore this
distinction is to paint a very misleading picture of what
socialism stands for.

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.


2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that anarchists "are in favour
of the private property which cannot be used by one
person to exploit another." Reinventing Anarchy, p. 49]
In other words, property which is no longer truly private
as it is used by those who do not own it. In effect, the
key point of Proudhon's What is Property?, namely the
difference between possession and property. Which
means that rather than desire the abolition of all forms
of "private property," socialists (of all kinds, libertarian
and authoritarian) desire the abolition of a specific
kind of property, namely that kind which allows the
exploitation and domination of others. To ignore this
distinction is to paint a very misleading picture of what
socialism stands for.

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.


2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
position when he wrote that anarchists "are in favour
of the private property which cannot be used by one
person to exploit another." Reinventing Anarchy, p. 49]
In other words, property which is no longer truly private
as it is used by those who do not own it. In effect, the
key point of Proudhon's What is Property?, namely the
difference between possession and property. Which
means that rather than desire the abolition of all forms
of "private property," socialists (of all kinds, libertarian
and authoritarian) desire the abolition of a specific
kind of property, namely that kind which allows the
exploitation and domination of others. To ignore this
distinction is to paint a very misleading picture of what
socialism stands for.

1. Individualist Anarchists and the socialist movement.

Caplan, in his FAQ, attempts to rewrite anarchist
history by trying to claim that the individualist
anarchists were forerunners of the so-called "anarcho-
capitalist" school. However, as is so often the case
with Caplan's FAQ, nothing could be further from the
truth.

In section 5 (What major subdivisions may be made
among anarchists?) of his FAQ, Caplan writes that:

"A large segment of left-anarchists is extremely
sceptical about the anarchist credentials of anarcho-
capitalists, arguing that the anarchist movement has
historically been clearly leftist. In my own view, it is
necessary to re-write a great deal of history to
maintain this claim."

He quotes Carl Landauer's European Socialism: A
History of Ideas and Movements as evidence:

"To be sure, there is a difference between
individualistic anarchism and collectivistic or
communistic anarchism; Bakunin called himself a
communist anarchist. But the communist anarchists
also do not acknowledge any right to society to force
the individual. They differ from the anarchistic
individualists in their belief that men, if freed from
coercion, will enter into voluntary associations of a
communistic type, while the other wing believes that
the free person will prefer a high degree of isolation.
The communist anarchists repudiate the right of
private property which is maintained through the
power of the state. The individualist anarchists are
inclined to maintain private property as a necessary
condition of individual independence, without fully
answering the question of how property could be
maintained without courts and police."

Caplan goes on to state that "the interesting point is
that before the emergence of modern anarcho-
capitalism Landauer found it necessary to distinguish
two strands of anarchism, only one of which he
considered to be within the broad socialist tradition."

However, what Caplan seems to ignore is that both
individualist and social anarchists agree that there is
a difference between the two schools of anarchist
thought! Some insight. Of course, Caplan tries to
suggest that Landauer's non-discussion of the
individualist anarchists is somehow "evidence" that
their ideas are not socialistic. Firstly, Landauer's book
is about European Socialism. Individualist anarchism
was almost exclusively based in America and so
hardly falls within the book's subject area. Secondly,
from the index Kropotkin is mentioned on two pages
(one of which a footnote). Does that mean Kropotkin
was not a socialist? Of course not. It seems likely,
therefore, that Landauer is using the common Marxist
terminology of defining Marxism as Socialism, while
calling other parts of the wider socialist movement by
their self-proclaimed names of anarchism,
syndicalism and so on. Hardly surprising that
Kropotkin is hardly mentioned in a history
of "Socialism" (i.e. Marxism).

As noted above, both schools of anarchism knew
there was a difference between their ideas. Kropotkin
and Tucker, for example, both distinguished between
two types of anarchism as well as two types of
socialism. Thus Caplan's "interesting point" is just a
banality, a common fact which anyone with a basic
familiarity of anarchist history would know. Kropotkin in
his justly famous essay on Anarchism for The
Encyclopaedia Britannica also found it necessary to
distinguish two strands of anarchism. As regards
Caplan's claims that only one of these strands of
anarchism is "within the broad socialist tradition" all
we can say is that both Kropotkin and Tucker
considered their ideas and movement to be part of the
broader socialist tradition. According to an expert on
Individualist Anarchism, Tucker "looked upon
anarchism as a branch of the general socialist
movement" [James J. Martin, Men Against the State,
pp. 226-7]. Other writers on Individualist Anarchism
have noted the same fact (for example,
Tucker "definitely thought of himself a socialist"
[William O. Reichart, Partisans of Freedom: A Study in
American Anarchism, p. 156]). As evidence of the anti-
socialist nature of individualist anarchism, Caplan's
interpretation of Landauer's words is fundamentally
nonsense. If you look at the writings of people like
Tucker you will see that they called themselves
socialists and considered themselves part of the
wider socialist movement. No one familiar with
Tucker's works could overlook this fact.

Interestingly, Landauer includes Proudhon in his
history and states that he was "the most profound
thinker among pre-Marxian socialists." [p. 67] Given
that Caplan elsewhere in his FAQ tries to co-opt
Proudhon into the "anarcho"-capitalist school as well
as Tucker, his citing of Landauer seems particularly
dishonest. Landauer presents Proudhon's ideas in
some depth in his work within a chapter headed "The
three Anticapitalistic Movements." Indeed, he starts his
discussion of Proudhon's ideas with the words "In
France, post-Utopian socialism begins with Peter
Joseph Proudhon." [p. 59] Given that both Kropotkin
and Tucker indicated that Individualist Anarchism
followed Proudhon's economic and political ideas the
fact that Landauer states that Proudhon was a
socialist implies that Individualist Anarchism is also
socialist (or "Leftist" to use Caplan's term).

Tucker and the other individualist anarchists
considered themselves as followers of Proudhon's
ideas (as did Bakunin and Kropotkin). For example,
Tucker stated that his journal Liberty was "brought into
existence as a direct consequence of the teachings of
Proudhon" and "lives principally to spread them." [cited
by Paul Avrich in his "Introduction" to Proudhon and
his "Bank of the People" by Charles A. Dana]

Obviously Landauer considered Proudhon a socialist
and if Individualist Anarchism follows Proudhon's
ideas then it, too, must be socialist.

Unsurprisingly, then, Tucker also considered himself
a socialist. To state the obvious, Tucker and Bakunin
both shared Proudhon's opposition to private property
(in the capitalist sense of the word), although Tucker
confused this opposition (and possibly the casual
reader) by talking about possession as "property."

So, it appears that Caplan is the one trying to rewrite
history.


2 - Why is Caplan's definition of socialism wrong?

Perhaps the problem lies with Caplan's "definition" of
socialism. In section 7 (Is anarchism the same thing
as socialism?) he states:

"If we accept one traditional definition of socialism --
'advocacy of government ownership of the means of
production' -- it seems that anarchists are not
socialists by definition. But if by socialism we mean
something more inclusive, such as 'advocacy of the
strong restriction or abolition of private property,' then
the question becomes more complex."

Which are hardly traditional definitions of socialism
unless you are ignorant of socialist ideas! By definition
one, Bakunin and Kropotkin are not socialists. As far
as definition two goes, all anarchists were opposed to
(capitalist) private property and argued for its abolition
and its replacement with possession. The actual
forms of possession differed from between anarchist
schools of thought, but the common aim to end private
property (capitalism) was still there. To quote Dana, in
a pamphlet called "a really intelligent, forceful, and
sympathetic account of mutual banking" by Tucker,
individualist anarchists desire to "destroy the tyranny
of capital,- that is, of property" by mutual credit.
[Charles A. Dana, Proudhon and his "Bank of the
People", p. 46]

Interestingly, this second definition of socialism brings
to light a contradiction in Caplan's account. Elsewhere
in the FAQ he notes that Proudhon had "ideas on the
desirability of a modified form of private property." In
fact, Proudhon did desire to restrict private property to
that of possession, as Caplan himself seems aware.
In other words, even taking his own definitions we find
that Proudhon would be considered a socialist!
Indeed, according to Proudhon, "all accumulated
capital is collective property, no one may be its
exclusive owner." [Selected Writings of Pierre-Joseph
Proudhon, p. 44] Thus Jeremy Jennings' summary of
the anarchist position on private property:

"The point to stress is that all anarchists [including
Spooner and Tucker], and not only those wedded to
the predominant twentieth-century strain of anarchist
communism have been critical of private property to
the extent that it was a source of hierarchy and
privilege."

He goes on to state that anarchists like Tucker and
Spooner "agreed with the proposition that property
was legitimate only insofar as it embraced no more
than the total product of individual labour."
["Anarchism", Contemporary Political Ideologies,
Roger Eatwell and Anthony Wright (eds.), p. 132]

The idea that socialism can be defined as state
ownership or even opposition to, or "abolition" of, all
forms of property is not one which is historically
accurate for all forms of socialism. Obviously
communist-anarchists and syndicalists would
dismiss out of hand the identification of socialism as
state ownership, as would Individualist Anarchists like
Tucker and Joseph Labadie. As for opposition or
abolition of all forms of "private property" as defining
socialism, such a position would have surprised
communist-anarchists like Kropotkin (and, obviously,
such self-proclaimed socialists as Tucker and
Labadie).

For example, in Act for Yourselves Kropotkin explicitly
states that a peasant "who is in possession of just the
amount of land he can cultivate" would not be
expropriated in an anarchist revolution. Similarly for
the family "inhabiting a house which affords them just
enough space . . . considered necessary for that
number of people" and the artisan "working with their
own tools or handloom" would be left alone [pp. 104-
5]. He makes the same point in The Conquest of
Bread [p. 61] Thus, like Proudhon, Kropotkin replaces
private property with possession as the former
is "theft" (i.e. it allows exploitation, which "indicate[s]
the scope of Expropriation" namely "to everything that
enables any man [or woman]. . . to appropriate the
product of other's toil" [The Conquest of Bread, p. 61])

Even Marx and Engels did not define socialism in
terms of the abolition of all forms of "private property."
Like anarchists, they distinguished between that
property which allows exploitation to occur and that
which did not. Looking at the Communist Manifesto
we find them arguing that the "distinguishing feature of
Communism is not the abolition of property generally,
but the abolition of bourgeois property" and
that "Communism deprives no man of the power to
appropriate the products of society; all that it does is to
deprive him of the power to subjugate the labour of
others by means of such appropriation." Moreover,
they correctly note that "property" has meant different
things at different times and that the "abolition of
existing property relations is not at all a distinctive
feature of Communism" as "[a]ll property relations in
the past have continually been subject to historical
change consequent upon the change in historical
conditions." As an example, they argue that the French
Revolution "abolished feudal property in favour of
bourgeois property." [The Manifesto of the Communist
Party]

Which means that the idea that socialism means
abolishing "private property" is only true for those
kinds of property that are used to exploit the labour of
others. Nicholas Walter sums up the anarchist
posi