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Marines losing the battle for hearts and minds

by James Meek outside Nassiriya Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 4:03 AM

Hopes of a joyful liberation of a grateful Iraq by US and British armies are evaporating fast in the Euphrates valley as a sense of bitterness, germinated from blood spilled and humiliations endured, begins to grow in the hearts of invaded and invader alike. Attempts by US marines to take bridges over the river Euphrates, which passes through Nassiriya, have become bogged down in casualties and troops taken prisoner. The marines, in turn, have responded harshly

Out in the plain west of the city, marines shepherding a gigantic series of convoys north towards Baghdad have reacted to ragged sniping with an aggressive series of house searches and arrests.

A surgical assistant at the Saddam hospital in Nassiriya, interviewed at a marine check point outside the city, said that on Sunday, half an hour after two dead marines were brought into the hospital, US aircraft dropped what he described as three or four cluster bombs on civilian areas, killing 10 and wounding 200.

Mustafa Mohammed Ali said he understood US forces going straight to Baghdad to get rid of Saddam Hussein, but was outraged that they had attacked his city and killed civilians. "I don't want forces to come into the city. They have an objective, they go straight to the target," he said. "There's no room in the Saddam hospital because of the wounded. It's the only hospital in town. When I saw the dead Americans I cheered in my heart.

"They started bombing Nassiriya on Friday but they didn't bomb civilian areas until yesterday, when these American dead bodies were brought in.

"We know the difference between a missile and a cluster bomb. A missile shoots to one target whereas a cluster bomb spreads after they release it."

Mr Ali said marines now controlled the centre of the city, but that fighting was continuing, with members of Saddam Hussein's Ba'ath party in the forefront.

Asked about the much-vaunted fedayeen militia, reported by some sources to be leading the battle, Mr Ali said: "They are children." Other travellers from Nassiriya said they were press-ganged youths who went into battle dressed in black with black scarves wound around their faces and who fight for fear of the execution committees waiting to shoot them if they try to run.

Watching from behind a barbed wire barrier as hundreds of the marines' ammunition trucks, armoured amphibious vehicles, tankers, tanks and trucks lumbered past through clouds of dust as fine as talcum powder, Mr Ali asked why such a huge army was needed just to catch a sin gle man. "We don't want Saddam, but we don't want them [the Americans] to stay afterwards," he said. "Like they entered into Saudi Arabia, Kuwait and Qatar and didn't leave, they will do here. They are fighting Islam. They're entering under the pretext of targeting Ba'ath, but they won't leave."

Another Iraqi squatting next to him leaned over, pointed to the convoys and said: "This is better than Saddam's government."

The marine convoys, which have been passing northward now almost non-stop for two days, are using a partly-built concrete motorway bridge over the Euphrates which US military engineers have made strong enough to take one tank at a time.

At this point the river is a narrow, slow-flowing blue current. Nassiriya is at the western end of the waterlands once occupied by 200,000 Marsh Arabs, the Ma'dan, whose cul ture, thousands of years old, was all but destroyed by Saddam Hussein with terrible loss of life.

A few yards from the bridge it is possible to sit by the riverbank and watch the green spring reeds which defined the marshes bending in the wind. One of the Ma'dan's high-prowed canoes drifts from side to side on its mooring rope.

But it is not long before the sound of the wildfowl and the lapping water is drowned out by a pair of ash-grey Huey helicopters, chugging low past the palm trees beside the bridge, and the whine of the next tank to cross.

Staff Sergeant Larry Simmons, a Floridian from a marine reconnaissance unit in a foxhole overlooking the bridge, was not impressed by what he saw. "You learn about the Euphrates in geography class, and you get here and you think: 'This is the Euphrates? Looks like a muddy creek to me'."

The marines are aggrieved: aggrieved that the Iraqis aren't more grateful, aggrieved that the Iraqis are shooting at them, aggrieved that the US army's spearhead 3rd Infantry Division tore through Nassiriya earlier in the invasion without making it safe.

"They didn't clear the place, and then they left, and now the marines sure have to clear it," he said. "Just like the goddam army."

And the Iraqis are aggrieved at the marines. A 50-year-old businessman and farmer, Said Yahir, was driving up to the main body of the reconnaissance unit, stationed under the bridge. He wanted to know why the marines had come to his house and taken his son Nathen, his Kalashnikov rifle, and his 3m dinars (about £500).

"What did I do?" he said. "This is your freedom that you're talking about? This is my life savings."

In 1991, in the wake of Iraq's defeat in the first Gulf war, Mr Yahir was one of those who joined the rebellion against Saddam Hussein. His house was shelled by the dictator's artillery. The US refused to intervene and the rebellion was crushed.

"Saddam would have fallen if they had supported us," Mr Yahir said. "I've been so humiliated."

Under the bridge, Sergeant Michael Sprague was unrepentant. The money, the marines said, was probably destined for terrorist activities - buying a suicide bomber, for instance. "The same people we determined were safe yesterday were found with weapons today," he said.

Marine scouts shot two Iraqi men yesterday when they were seen carrying Kalashnikovs. Each man was found to be carrying three magazines, but they never fired at the marines before they were killed.

"They were pointing their weapons in an aggressive manner, and they were taken out," said Sgt Sprague.

Nathen had been captured the previous day, along with dozens of others, and like them, had been let go, Sgt Sprague said. Then they caught him again with a Kalashnikov in mint condition and 3m dinars.

"So the question I would like to be asked is, if this person already went through EPW [enemy prisoner of war] questioning and was found to be OK, why on earth would he come back? The problem with these people is that you can't believe anything they say."

Could he understand the locals' distrust of the US after what happened in 1991?

"If it weren't for the liberal press, we might have taken Baghdad last time," said the sergeant.

In the end the marines let father and son go on their way with gun and money, accepting that both were for personal use. But Sgt Sprague was none too happy to see them go. The convoys have, after all, come under sporadic mortar attack. "There's a mad mortarman out there," he said.

A few miles from the bridge to the south lie the ruins of the ancient city of Ur, founded 8,000 years ago, the birth place of Abraham and a flourishing metropolis at a time when the inhabitants of north-west Europe were still walking round in animal skins.

Sgt Sprague, from White Sulphur Springs in West Virginia, passed it on his way north, but he never knew it was there.

"I've been all the way through this desert from Basra to here and I ain't seen one shopping mall or fast food restaurant," he said. "These people got nothing. Even in a little town like ours of twenty five hundred people you got a McDonald's at one end and a Hardee's at the other."

A few hundred yards downstream, a group of Iraqis, some of them hiding out in the country from the fighting in Nassiriya, invited journalists to strong sweet tea in a farmhouse of whitewashed mud. They spread carpets and cushions on the floor and generously allowed the guests not to take their muddy boots off. Light shone through a triangular window.

Mohsen Ali, a devout Shia fingering amber beads as he spoke, said the Iraqi people would fight for Iraq, if not for President Saddam, although he supported the dictator. The country needed a strong leader, he said - even a brutal one.

"If in Iraq there's a leader who's fair, he'll be killed the next day," he said. "Iraqis have hot blood. If he's not tough, he dies the next day."

http://www.guardian.co.uk/Iraq/0,2759,423009,00.html
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Flags in the dust

by brian.whitaker Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 4:05 AM

Although coalition forces may be winning the military battle on land and in the air, political incompetence means that Iraq is winning the battle of hearts and minds, writes Brian Whitaker

Monday March 24, 2003

One of the finest war photographs ever taken shows the raising of the American flag over Iwo Jima in February, 1945. The battle for this tiny island in the Pacific, just five miles long and two miles wide, lasted 31 days and cost 6,821 American lives.
In the picture, six helmeted figures grapple with a pole, attempting to plant it on a rock-strewn mountain top. At the end of the pole, the Stars and Stripes flutters in the wind against a vast open sky.

The symbolism of this picture, taken by Associated Press photographer Joe Rosenthal, was clear to everyone at the time. The huddle of human figures represented heroic endeavour, while the flag and the sky signalled hope and freedom.

As an artistic composition, the photograph was so brilliant that ever since the day it appeared there have been people who claimed it was specially posed - though there is ample evidence that it was not. In just 1/400th of a second, Rosenthal's camera captured the spirit of the time.

Maybe this was what someone had in mind early last Friday when invading American marines removed an Iraqi flag from a building in Umm Qasr, just across the border from Kuwait, and raised the Stars and Stripes. But what might have seemed a noble gesture in 1945 is open to different interpretations 58 years later.

In Britain, even supporters of the war denounced the flag-raising as a stupid act, undermining claims that the goal is to liberate Iraq, not to conquer it - and by nightfall the Iraqi flag was back.

In the midst of more dramatic events, this was a very minor incident, but a telling one nonetheless: it highlighted a credibility gap that may yet become a catastrophic flaw in America's war strategy.

Most wars start by accident or with a flourish of misplaced jingoism. But this war is unique. It is hard to recall any conflict in history that aroused so much opposition even before it began. At best its legitimacy and purpose is in serious doubt. At worst, millions regard it as illegal and/or immoral.

Besides that, it is led by a president for whom few outside the United States have any respect. Just as the onus was placed on Iraq, during the period of inspections, to prove that it had no weapons of mass destruction, the onus now is on the invasion forces to convince a sceptical world of their bona fides. This is probably impossible to do, since the official and unofficial aims of the war cannot be reconciled.

One example of confused messages came on the first day with the attempt to assassinate Saddam Hussein. Apart from looking hasty and opportunistic, it conflicted with argument made during the UN inspection process that the main goal was to disarm Iraq.

That might not have been so bad if, after Saddam had appeared on television to show that he was still alive, US officials had quashed speculation that he might be dead. Whatever private doubts they might have harboured (about the use of lookalikes, etc), joining in the guesswork merely cast doubt on their credibility as sources of authoritative information.

The Centcom command centre in Qatar, with its hugely expensive press facilities, has also been slow to get its case across. It was not until Saturday that General Tommy Franks got round to speaking to the world's media, with a polished performance that said almost nothing. In the meantime, other officials made all sorts of statements that were contradictory in some cases and downright wrong in others.

The battle for Umm Qasr, the small port near the border with Kuwait has been won and un-won so many times that by now most people have lost count. It's no excuse to attribute these failures to the "fog of war" or "psychological operations" against the Baghdad regime.

Iraqi spokesmen, on the other hand, have been remarkably forthcoming and, if we disregard the usual rhetoric, the factual content of their statements has often been more accurate than that of the invasion forces. Their figures for Iraqi casualties have also been low enough to sound plausible.

Friday brought the appalling "Shock n' Awe Show" which, in its visual effects, resembled something that might have been conceived by a big-budget Hollywood director. Its military purpose, if any, is still far from clear, and those shocked by it were mainly TV viewers outside Iraq.

After decades of wars, sanctions and repression, Iraqis themselves have become inured to almost anything. As the attack was ending, some of the Arab TV channels lingered for a few seconds on a bizarre scene in flickering night-vision green: Iraqi spectators standing in open parkland on the opposite side of the river, watching the fireworks.

Though this attack was meant to terrify the Baghdad regime into submission, nobody in Washington seems to have anticipated its effect on the rest of the world. To some in the Arab and Muslim countries, Shock and Awe is terrorism by another name; to others, a crime that compares unfavourably with September 11.

To the homespun folks in Middletown, California - recorded by the BBC the other day singing patriotic songs around their dinner table - such perceptions may be utterly incomprehensible, but they are real and cannot be ignored. They explain why the American flag has become a liability and why westerners in Yemen, for example, have taken to flying the blue-and-gold European flag from their cars to discourage attackers.

General Franks, of course, is at pains to point out that modern American missiles are extremely accurate and that every target is carefully selected to minimise civilian casualties. This may be, but it takes only a few exceptions to persuade people otherwise - as happened at the weekend when al-Jazeera television showed millions of Arab viewers the picture of a child with a shattered head.

As the invasion forces move closer to Baghdad, it is still an open question as to whether ordinary Iraqis will view them as conquerors or liberators. The omens so far are not particularly good. When they arrived in Safwan last Friday, one Iraqi greeted them by saying: "What took you so long? God help you to become victorious."

Possibly he meant it, though it's not hard to imagine similar words being addressed to anyone who arrived in town with a conspicuous display of weaponry. Two Reuters correspondents, travelling independently of the military, told a different story:

"One group of Iraqi boys on the side of the road smiled and waved as a convoy of British tanks and trucks rolled by. But once it had passed, leaving a trail of dust and grit in its wake, their smiles turned to scowls. 'We don't want them here,' said 17-year-old Fouad, looking angrily up at the plumes of grey smoke rising from Basra. 'Saddam is our leader,' he said defiantly. 'Saddam is good'."

All these effects were easily foreseeable, though not easily avoided once a decision was made to go to war. With less than a week gone, the invasion forces may be slowly winning the battle on land and in the air but Iraq is winning the battle of hearts and minds.

To have reached such a position against an adversary who is demonstrably one of the world's most disgusting tyrants, to have transformed him into a hero figure, and to have transformed the American flag into a symbol of oppression, is not only unfortunate but reeks of political incompetence.

Email
brian.whitaker@guardian.co.uk


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U.S. skoolin'

by Point Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 6:47 AM

A few miles from the bridge to the south lie the ruins of the ancient city of Ur, founded 8,000 years ago, the birth place of Abraham and a flourishing metropolis at a time when the inhabitants of north-west Europe were still walking round in animal skins.

Sgt Sprague, from White Sulphur Springs in West Virginia, passed it on his way north, but he never knew it was there.

"I've been all the way through this desert from Basra to here and I ain't seen one shopping mall or fast food restaurant," he said. "These people got nothing. Even in a little town like ours of twenty five hundred people you got a McDonald's at one end and a Hardee's at the other."

-------------------------------------------------

Oh, the luxuries of a free market! Well, don't worry, Sgt. Sprague, the Wal-Mart is on its way, so keep killin'!

Man, its like Gen. Butler said, military minds don't think.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 8:49 AM

You are such a jackass.

The Left is full of such snobbish pinheads - you actually think it's funny or relevant that Sgt. Sprauge isn't all that well educated? You think it's funny that Sgt. Sprauge comes from a depressed shithole like West Virginia, loves his country and volunteered to join the military?

Who the hell are you? What have you done? Besides look down your sissy ass nose at a MAN who is doing his best to stay alive in a remarkably difficult situation?

You see, unlike you, Sgt. Sprauge probably didn't get a car for high school graduation. Unlike you, Sgt. Sprauge didn't get to go to the college of his choice on the wallet of his parents.

You can oppose this conflict for any reason you like, good or ill. But you should shut your stupid ass mouth about the soldiers who fight. They may not be as well travelled as you (did mommy get you a 'semester at sea'?) or as well educated as you, but they are (and I suspect you know this) better than you.
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I disgree on one point Simple

by Skinner Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 8:58 AM

I don't know that West Virginia is a Shithole, after it is his home and I do know that area of the US is a beautiful place.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 9:06 AM

A point well taken. West Virginia is actually quite beautiful. It is economically screwed, however. I was referring to it in an economic sense.

It frosts my ass that children of priveledge from Orange County will look down their spoiled little noses at people from other parts of the country - and have the brass balls to accuse THEM of parochialism.
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You missed the point. . .

by Point Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 9:26 AM

So I will spell it out for you.

"You are such a jackass.
The Left is full of such snobbish pinheads - you actually think it's funny or relevant that Sgt. Sprauge isn't all that well educated?"

I was referring to Gen. Smedley Butler, two-time MOH winner, who said that military minds don't think, don't question, much to their and our detriment. He knew this as a fact, because he said it was true of him for most of his 30 years in the Marine Corps.

"You think it's funny that Sgt. Sprauge comes from a depressed shithole like West Virginia, loves his country and volunteered to join the military? "

West Virginia is a beautiful place physically, I've camped on the Potomac River at the Smokehole Campground and found the folks to be no different than the rest of us.

Funny? It is truly a sad day for humanity when McDonald's and Hardee's are viewed as assets.

"Who the hell are you? What have you done? Besides look down your sissy ass nose at a MAN who is doing his best to stay alive in a remarkably difficult situation? "

You appear to think you are clairavoyant, as you seem to think you have a clue as to who and what I am. . . Sorry, you missed.

"You see, unlike you, Sgt. Sprauge probably didn't get a car for high school graduation. "

I didn't get one either, matter of fact, I finished HS at night.

"Unlike you, Sgt. Sprauge didn't get to go to the college of his choice on the wallet of his parents. "

Me either. Matter of fact, my father, an F-86D fighter pilot, died as a result of the Korean War when I was 8 years old. And the paltry pension the Feds gave my mother didn't keep up with the Congressional pay raises.

"You can oppose this conflict for any reason you like, good or ill. But you should shut your stupid ass mouth about the soldiers who fight. They may not be as well travelled as you (did mommy get you a 'semester at sea'?) or as well educated as you, but they are (and I suspect you know this) better than you."

Hit a nerve, did I? Most of the "soldiers who fight" have about as much political intelligence as a 2x4, a statement that applies to most policemen as well. Primarily due to the fact that they are barely out of adolescense.

The trials at Nurnberg took great pains to point out that following orders did not excuse anyone from personal responsibility. Of course, the facist capitalist plutocracy tries to cover that fact up, but anyone in any state institution is liable for said behavior, state orders or not.

If you have any actual thoughts on the issues, please share them.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 9:41 AM

So let's see if I've got you now.

Your dad died in the Korean War, right? And you were 8? So you're between 58 and 61 now.

You were raised on money bought with your father's blood and paid to your mother by a government which honors its commitments. And you repay that government by adopting ignorant and discredited Socialist or Communist sympathies and railing at the government when you get the chance.

What exactly does the pay of a congressman have to do with the amount of money due a widow?

You correctly state that most of our combat soldiers are not well versed politically. Is that a crime? The appeasment mongers have underwhelmed me with their political acumen.

You seem to be making the argument that our soldiers are engaged in some sort of crime. Your reference to Nuremburg is interesting. Care to elaborate?

I've seen a lot of that old General Butler quote around here recently. That had to have been a hell of a google search. Now all the parrots are copying it. Funny, since when do Leftists take the word of a military man as gospel?

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Almost ideas. . .

by Point Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 10:16 AM

"You were raised on money bought with your father's blood and paid to your mother by a government which honors its commitments."

Bought money? I wouldn't call federal taxes bought money.

"And you repay that government by adopting ignorant and discredited Socialist or Communist sympathies and railing at the government when you get the chance. "

Which do you think I would rather have had, the presence of my father or a folded flag and a montlhy check? Which "discredited Socialist or Communist sympathies" would that be? I don't recall mentioning any.

"What exactly does the pay of a congressman have to do with the amount of money due a widow? "

Are you familiar with the term, COLA? Cost of Living Allowance? Congress used it about 3 times on my mother's pension, and several more times on their own.

"You correctly state that most of our combat soldiers are not well versed politically. Is that a crime? The appeasment mongers have underwhelmed me with their political acumen."

You seem to imply that politics is a narrow realm, when it is actually everything you do in a day. I am aware of what I do each moment, because it matters. Not being aware of what you do in a day produces results the likes of which we are now seeing.

"You seem to be making the argument that our soldiers are engaged in some sort of crime. Your reference to Nuremburg is interesting. Care to elaborate? "

International law, agreed to by the United States government, in name if not in spirit, clearly states that aggressive war is a violation of the law governing the behavior of nation-states. The only time force is legally applicable is if under attack, or the immanent threat of attack. Neither of which is the case.

"I've seen a lot of that old General Butler quote around here recently. That had to have been a hell of a google search. Now all the parrots are copying it. Funny, since when do Leftists take the word of a military man as gospel? "

Perhaps you should read his biography, "Maverick Marine." There is much information about American war and military culture to be had within its pages.

I have practiced and studied martial art for many years, and have thus a more than passing interest in military matters. I include the modern art of firearms in my practice, a logical outgrowth of determining what could be done to deal with a person so armed. Thousands of rounds have come under the hammers of various of my firearms. Real life is much more than it seems to most.

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WHAT DO YOU CALL THIS

by JC Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 10:36 AM

So the USMC are not winning the "hearts and Minds" of the iraqi people. HMMM!

This morning the British and American Press reported an ongoing and violent uprising of the Shea people in Basarat against their BAATH opressors. It's coming, Saddam is loosing, the Iraqi people will soon be free of the thirty years of terror and injustice they have suffered. God Bless ouy brave fighting men,God Bless George Bush and God Bless America.

Remenber how stupid you were during this war when it's over and we are safe from Saddams VX and bio terror. Remember what you said today when you see millions of Iraqi rejoycing at the death of the devil Saddam. Remember how hard you worked to keep those people enslved to support terror and to endanger your fellow Americans by leaving a murder and avowed enemy of the US with WMD"S.

You should be ashamed of your stupidity and ignorance
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WHAT DO YOU CALL THIS

by JC Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 10:36 AM

So the USMC are not winning the "hearts and Minds" of the iraqi people. HMMM!

This morning the British and American Press reported an ongoing and violent uprising of the Shea people in Basarat against their BAATH opressors. It's coming, Saddam is loosing, the Iraqi people will soon be free of the thirty years of terror and injustice they have suffered. God Bless ouy brave fighting men,God Bless George Bush and God Bless America.

Remenber how stupid you were during this war when it's over and we are safe from Saddams VX and bio terror. Remember what you said today when you see millions of Iraqi rejoycing at the death of the devil Saddam. Remember how hard you worked to keep those people enslved to support terror and to endanger your fellow Americans by leaving a murder and avowed enemy of the US with WMD"S.

You should be ashamed of your stupidity and ignorance
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Simple

by Simple Simon Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 10:37 AM

You don't recall making any Socialist or Communist references? Has senility crept in already, despite your activity?

"facist (sic) capitalist plutocracy" ring a bell? Did you pull that one from the front page of an old copy of Pravda?

Your analysis of the current situation is similarly flawed. The conflict in which our soldiers are engaged is really just the final chapter of the Gulf War. For violations of cease fire agreements we have reinitiated hostilities. Hence, no aggressive war, hence your 'war crimes' notions go up in smoke.

Finally, all your political acuity and sophistication has accomplished what, exactly? Are you the one? Are you the Leftist which will finally present a rational and comprehensive alternative to the course the administration has charted? Are you going to show us how the French would talk our enemies into not hating us, or into ceasing their activities? Are you going to explain the principled stand of the Russians who were selling the Iraqis weapons in violation of UN sanctions?

I wait with bated breath.
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I'm but a mere puppet

by Simple Simon Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 10:38 AM

I am Bush's most useful idiot.
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My stupidity and ignorance

by JC Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 10:41 AM

I remember my stupidity and ignorance everyday when I am told what to think my Dubbya and the mass media.
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Baited Breath is how it's spelled...

by Point Wednesday, Mar. 26, 2003 at 12:45 PM

I see you have the hook in too deep to remove, and you have no interest in getting to the bottom of things. Your moniker seems to be right on the mark.

Have a nice day. . .
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USMC

by USMA Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 7:59 AM

Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.

I sat in a movie theater watching "Schindler's List," asked myself, "Why didn't the Jews fight back?"

Now I know why.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Pearl Harbor" and asked myself, "Why weren't we prepared?"

Now I know why.

Civilized people cannot fathom, much less predict, the actions of evil people.

On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors.

On September 11, thousands of innocent people were murdered because too many Americans naively reject the reality that some nations are dedicated to the dominance of others. Many political pundits, pacifists and media personnel want us to forget the carnage. They say we must focus on the bravery of the rescuers and ignore the cowardice of the killers. They implore us to understand the motivation of the perpetrators. Major television stations have announced they will assist the healing process by not replaying devastating footage of the planes crashing into the Twin Towers.

I will not be manipulated.

I will not pretend to understand.

I will not forget.

I will not forget the liberal media who abused freedom of the press to kick our country when it was vulnerable and hurting.

I will not forget that CBS anchor Dan Rather preceded President Bush's address to the nation with the snide remark, "No matter how you feel about him, he is still our president."

I will not forget that ABC TV anchor Peter Jennings questioned President Bush's motives for not returning immediately to Washington, DC and commented, "We're all pretty skeptical and cynical about Washington."

And I will not forget that ABC's Mark Halperin warned if reporters weren't informed of every little detail of this war, they aren't "likely -- nor should they be expected -- to show deference."

I will not isolate myself from my fellow Americans by pretending an attack on the USS Cole in Yemen was not an attack on the United States of America.




I will not be appeased with pointless, quick retaliatory strikes like those perfected by the previous administration.

I will not be comforted by "feel-good, do nothing" regulations like the silly, "Have your bags been under your control?" question at the airport.

I will not be influenced by so called,"antiwar demonstrators" who exploit the right of _expression to chant anti-American obscenities.

I will not forget the moral victory handed the North Vietnamese by American war protesters who reviled and spat upon the returning soldiers, airmen, sailors and marines.

I will not be softened by the wishful thinking of pacifists who chose reassurance over reality.

I will embrace the wise words of Prime Minister Tony Blair who told the Labor Party conference, "They have no moral inhibition on the slaughter of the innocent. If they could have murdered not 7,000 but 70,000, does anyone doubt they would have done so and rejoiced in it?

There is no compromise possible with such people, no meeting of minds, no point of understanding with such terror. Just a choice: defeat it or be defeated by it. And defeat it we must!"

I will force myself to:

-hear the weeping
-feel the helplessness
-imagine the terror
-sense the panic
-smell the burning flesh
- experience the loss
- remember the hatred.

I sat in a movie theater, watching "Private Ryan" and asked myself, "Where did they find the courage?"

Now I know.

We have no choice. Living without liberty is not living.

-- Ed Evans, MGySgt., USMC (Ret.)
Not as lean, Not as mean, But still a Marine.
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Wont get fooled again

by Sheepdog Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 8:14 AM

Too late for you USMA.
This is still cute.
"On September 11, dozens of capable airplane passengers allowed themselves to be
overpowered by a handful of poorly armed terrorists because they did not
comprehend the depth of hatred that motivated their captors. "
Wow still buying the line of crap you have swallowed hook
line sinker and pole.
You don't know shit about who or what was involved in 9-11.
Haven't bothered to try and find out either, have you?
Lambs and judice goats going into the grinder cheering the
smiling faces of lies and evil.
Have a good time beating your chest as you follow the flock
into the dark age, meat.
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tosheepdogshit

by USMA Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 8:22 AM

My My but we're defensive. I know it was a George Bush plot right?

You need serious mental care and and large doses of thorizine.

It's a conspiracy ,I swear it, CIA,FBI,Republicans, rigged elections, more riged elections oh god my liberal ass sucking face is RED RED RED RED RED cause I am a paranoid skizo. Help Help I'm the real SHEEP I hates da govremments. Shits
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Wow you do need help, meat.

by Sheepdog Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 8:34 AM

As your posts suggest.
Such froth and spittle. Do a bit of research if you aren't
frightened of the questions.
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Note to my psychiatrist

by USMA Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 8:57 AM

I'm ready to be put back into my straightjacket now.
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USMC

by Fed Up with the Right Wing Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 8:58 AM

Can we help you on with that jacket? Hmmmm....?
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Wollycanine

by trainer Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 11:52 AM

>You don't know shit about who or what was involved in 9-11.

Yes, we do. And that you are not willing to accept what the rest of us know to be true is not our problem. It's a race. See that group of people who are running way ahead of you? That's the rest of the civilized world. We're ignoring your willing stupidity and moving forward with or without you. If you want to catch up, that's up to you. If you stay behind, we don't care. Which really is what it comes down to, that is that we don't care what you believe. We're going to do what is right for us. If you don't like it, tough, that's your problem.
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to quote KPC

by american Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 11:56 AM

Who the fuck is "we", trainer. You got a mouse in your pocket?
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A

by trainer Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 12:00 PM

"We" are those of us whose opinion's matter. If you disagree with what is taking place, we're moving ahead without you, because like it or not, when it comes down to it your opinion doesn't matter. Evidence the fact that we are moving ahead despite what you think.
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trainer

by Sheepdog Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 12:41 PM


I love to be quoted. I'm so popular.
Since you have the truth in your grasp, do you mind
sticking its ass out in the breeze for our view or
does that involve states secrets? 9-11 what really
happened?
Give us your truth.
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A

by trainer Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 1:31 PM

>9-11 what really happened?

You don't know? A bunch of al-Queda trained operatives hijacked planes and flew them into building because bin Laden and his crew of militant Islamics want the world's population to all either bow down to Allah and Mohammed or die as the book of Qu'ran commands should happen.

Now if you choose not to believe that, we don't care. We're moving forward without you and regardless of what you think. Your opinion is irrelevant to anything we plan on doing in order to protect ourselves from these militant Islamics. It must be difficult to know that your opinion and your voice is being ignored. You likely believe that you should be listened to, maybe even adheared to, but that's not going to happen. If you don't like it, that's not our problem.
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Heil Bush!

by trainer Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 1:36 PM

Yes, I'm really as naive as I seem. I believe anything that the corporate media spoonfeeds me. I have no critical thinking skills.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 1:40 PM

weeee, I'm Sheepdog's free alter ego!!!

weeee, whenever he get's his ass handed to him in an argument, I spring free!!!

weeee, lifting nicknames and defaming people is so funny!!!

Weeee.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 1:41 PM

I did not post the above response. I couldn't win an argument if my pathetic life depended on it.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 1:49 PM

weeee, I'm Sheepdog's free alter ego!!!

weeee, whenever he get's his ass handed to him in an argument, I spring free!!!

weeee, lifting nicknames and defaming people is so funny!!!

Weeee.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 1:50 PM

I did not post the above response. I couldn't win an argument if my pathetic life depended on it.
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Wacko theories

by sheepdog Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 1:50 PM

Repost of mathew:
-this is a conspiracy theory: 19 men learned to pilot planes in a bumble-fuck town in florida. they board 4 commercial passenger planes. overtake those planes with box cutters. they pilot them unchallenged for the better part of an hour over the most densly populated airpspace in the u.s. and the world. they crash them one by one into some of the most significant buildings in the u.s. over the course of an hour unchallenged. they did this under the leadership of an evil man who lives in a secret cave in afghanistan.
because of all this, we must colonize afghanistan to build a pipeline to get oil from the caspian sea. we must also curb the civil liberties we pretend to be about as a society. and of course we must re-initiate a bombing campaign in iraq
the thing is conspiracies happen. the problem is some of them aren't true. some of them, like the one i just described are so unbelievable that only an idiot or a zombie
would fall for them.-
I like that one.
As for my own comments, traveler, you have no evidence a child couldn't tear apart. No videos, photos or logic.
Just your official story that can't hold water.
Tell us about the passport now.
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Simple

by Simple Simon Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 1:57 PM

So tell us, Sheepypoo, If you're through stealing nicknames, what DID happen on 11 Sep 01? I can't wait to hear this one.
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Note to Simpleton Simon

by Dr. Fruit Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 2:00 PM

It seems as though we are not making any progress with that multiple personality disorder of yours. I need to put you back in your straightjacket now.
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911

by leapfrog Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 2:46 PM

>>9-11 what really happened?

What would Sheepdog say? Bush new about it and possibly even planned it ?? Only an idiot or a zombie
would fall for that.

Sheepy - "But... But.... But to accept this would make one a part of the "intelligensia" who "sees" thing the rest of the human race is just to ignorant to see."

No, thanx for your imaginative theories. I'll stick w/ the truth.
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I love Bush!

by leapfrog Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 2:49 PM

Whatever Bush says is the truth, for he is my God. I worship at his altar.
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Hey, Leapfrog

by Bush Hater Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 3:08 PM

Are you sure you aren't A$$croft? Oh, I read it again. I thought you wrote "worship at his crotch." My bad. :-)
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Well gang, that was fun.

by Sheepdog Thursday, Mar. 27, 2003 at 3:23 PM

But.
Have you noticed the love the people of Iraq have for
their new liberators?
Crowds of cheering people greeting the new crusaders
showering them in flowers and joy?
They really love us more than that old CIA asset Saddam
don't they?
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