I have long warned that the peace movement is not about peace, that it is a fifth column communist movement to destroy America and give victory to our totalitarian enemies. Now this Fifth Column is preparing to move into action to attempt to defeat America in its war against Saddam.

On the day after the U.S. military action in Iraq begins, the Fifth Column is preparing to begin its own war at home. The plan is to cause major disruptions - illegal in nature - in cities across the country to disrupt the flow of normal civic life. These actions will tie up Homeland Security forces and create a golden opportunity for domestic terrorists. The Fifth Column left is also planning to invade military bases. Here is a report from Salon.com's Michelle Goldberg:

[Camp] Vandenberg is about 50 miles north of Santa Barbara, Calif. In a few days, activists will start converging on a nearby four-acre plot of land.... They're going to camp there and train to breach the base's security and possibly vandalize some of its equipment. The [leader of the activists] describes the base as "the electronic nerve center of the global-surveillance-targeting, weapons-guidance, and military-command satellites that will largely direct the war." The base is 99,000 square acres, with a perimeter running through rugged, wooded terrain. "If people are committed and determined and in halfway decent physical shape, it is possible to get in, because it's enormous and much of the land is still fairly wild," he says. Within the base, [the action leader] says, are "major off-limits security zones," that, when breached, "set off a series of responses in their own security procedures which require disruption and partial shut down of regular activities," which means the base can't operate at full capacity. [1]

Here is the Internet call to arms for New York City from a group calling itself "No Blood for Oil" (caps in original)-

The No Blood For Oil! Resistance Campaign is calling on all those who oppose the war, to join us in making the first day of concentrated US attack on Iraq an International Day of Civil Resistance! We'll be rallying in New York's Times Square at 5 p.m. that day - or 5 p.m. the next day, if the US assault begins at night - to inaugurate a campaign of civil resistance that will continue as long as U.S. aggression does. THIS MEANS NO BUSINESS AS USUAL! WE JOIN WITH MILLIONS ACROSS THE COUNTRY WHO CALL FOR A 'WORK STOPPAGE' ON THIS DAY! NO WORK, NO SCHOOL, NO BUSINESS AS USUAL! (www.nbfo.net)

Similar actions are planned for San Francisco (actagainstwar.com), Los Angeles (ainfos.ca/en/), and the nation's capital, Washington DC (dc.indymedia.org) The DC plan calls for five different actions designed to cause major domestic disruption:


These will be direct action oriented, unpermitted demonstrations to interrupt Business as Usual in the Capital of Capital and to raise the social costs of the US Government to Wage war on Iraq and the world...

The above actions will be carried out by the main forces of the Fifth Column communist "peace movement." The violence will be spear-headed by the anarchist "Black Bloc." (www.dc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=52540&group=webcast). This is a collection of anarchist "affinity groups" (see War Room #5 for a description of "affinity groups") who dress in black with faces covered to facilitate illegal actions. (A clearing house website for the Black Bloc is www.infoshop.org/blackbloc.html) These are the groups that caused massive disruption and damage during the anti-globalizations riots in Seattle, and have wreaked civil havoc in other American cities.

There will also be larger law-breaking demonstrations timed for the "day after" our soldiers enter Iraq. The stated intent of the large communist[2] peace organizations (United for Peace and Justice, Not In Our Name and International ANSWER) is to "interrupt the flow of normal life." Since the organizers cannot know the date when military action will begin and thus cannot get permits for their events, these are illegal demonstrations as well and their goal is sinister.

If security forces are tied up, obviously the opportunities for domestic terrorist attacks increase. But organizers maintain that even though their actions are designed to tie up Homeland Security forces they will be "non-violent."

Not so the actions of the Black Bloc, who launch their guerrilla operations from the main demonstrations. Here is a sample of their thinking, taken from their website (infoshop.org/octo/wto_blackbloc.html):

We contend that property destruction is not a violent activity unless it destroys lives or causes pain in the process. By this definition, private property--especially corporate private property--is itself infinitely more violent than any action taken against it.

Q: Why do black blocs attack the police?

A: Because they are in the way. While most anarchists oppose police brutality and seek an end to policing and prisons, our main targets are the rich and powerful. Since the police are the violent face of capitalism, in other words, the guard dogs for the rich, they are on the frontlines when the anarchists come to pursue our class war against the rich.

The military authorities at Vandenberg Air Force base have already announced that they will use deadly force to repel the saboteurs. Legislators should take forceful measures as well. They could begin by increasing the penalties on existing legislation for this kind of civil disobedience and make them mandatory. This will deter some activists and take others out of commission for the duration of the war. We suggest making this civil disruption during a Yellow Alert a felony with a mandatory 6 months in a confined facility and $10,000 fine. If the crime involves violence or is committed during an Orange Alert, we suggest increasing the penalties to one year in jail and a $50,000 fine. If the alert is Red, 2 years in jail and a $100,000 fine. Much larger fines should be assessed on groups that sponsor these actions.

Congress should also look to reactivating sedition laws that would meet the threat posed by the deadly seriousness of the anti-American Fifth Column. These activists are not playing games. They have dedicated their lives to the service of Communist regimes and anti-American causes. They are the fruit of more than thirty years of leftist attacks on this country. Now the international terrorists have provided them with their dream: the war has finally come home.

The attempt to sabotage America's war effort is not dissent and should be a wake-up call to all those critics of the Justice Department's efforts to protect us by surveilling anti-American groups. Clearly, both the FBI and our security laws are well behind the curve, since these saboteurs have not been deterred from their deadly ambitions. Criminal subversion and sedition are not protected by the Bill Rights and the perpetrators should be punished harshly enough to remove them from the field of battle.

[1] http://www.salon.com/news/feature/2003/03/14/war/index_np.html

[2] See WAR ROOMs #1 and #2 or, http://www.frontpagemag.com/Articles/CampaignArticles.asp?CID=6&D=The+Fifth+Column&ID=6

Thank you Mr. Horowitz.

Bingo!

Duh,

as far as I've read, the fifth column left has declared peace.

It seems like the 6th column right has declared war.

Does this horowitz guy watch tv, does he listen to the radio? Or does he just make this stuff up.

How did the British view the Boston tea party?
We are already under control of a fascist president.
This war is bullshit.
Defend your constitutional rights.
the constitution is what makes you an american.
this is our social contract to the government instituted of the people, by the people and for the people.

horowitz made a minor error in naming the group that "caused massive disruption and damage during the anti-globalizations riots in Seattle." it was not the "black bloc" but an organization known as "the police."

it sounds like the war just started a few minutes ago.... it's all over all the radio stations.

guess who fired the first shot?

was it that sinister "fifth column"?

was it the fearsome "black block"?

...is a NeoCon Lapdog Likudnik for the Administration and Ariel Sharon.

While I have at times found him insightful - not this time.

Opposition to evil is not a calling exclusive to the left or right. If a Policy is Wrong, as is this war, there are Patriots at both ends of the spectrum in opposition. Something Horowitz does not want to have to acknowledge.

Further Background: The alleged Black Bloc People who allegedly attacked the Police in Seattle were COINTELPRO style agitators trying to create a situation that would discredit the protests.

Diogenes -- Are you denying this simple allegation?

" On the day after the U.S. military action in Iraq begins, the Fifth Column is preparing to begin its own war at home. The plan is to cause major disruptions - illegal in nature - in cities across the country to disrupt the flow of normal civic life"

...Congress issue a Declaration of War?

Where in the Constitution does it give the President Unilateral Authority to commit U.S. Forces to a War Of Conquest of another country?

And don't give me any shit about Congress having passed a resolution allowing it - that resolution was conditioned upon there being solid proof tying Saddam to 911. No such proof exists or has been presented.

This is an illegal Unconstitutional aggression for which the Commanders should be Court Martialed and for which Bush should be Impeached.

I won't hold my breath - but if we were still operating under the Constitution and Congress had any guts that is what should happen.

I not only do not deny it, I embrace it. It is up to all peace-loving Americans to do whatever they can to stop this immoral, unjust, imperialist war as soon as possible and minimize the death and destruction on both sides. Good Americans who are repelled by the imperialist insanity of the Bush administration have the same task as good Germans did 70 years ago when their country was taken over by inhuman thugs who wanted to conquer the world: to stop this country's evil policy by whatever means are available to us. And as a growing number of Americans rise to that threat David Horowitz, Left-wing fanatic turned Right-wing fanatic because he thinks it's more historically "in" right now, calls for the current U.S. government to become even more like the Nazis and shoot or imprison its political dissenters. A somewhat surprising position for a Jew — though maybe not so surprising when you recall the occupation of Palestine and how it has converted Jews from victims of Holocaust I to perpetrators of Holocaust II.

In 1942 a small group of resisters to Hitler's nightmare were captured and executed.

This is their story, the story of the White Rose: http://www.nicole-caspari.de/weisse_rose/wr_e_index.html

Sorry about the confusion this is the one I was looking for in the first place:

http://www.jlrweb.com/whiterose/

You're using the same tactics George Sr. used against Saddam in '91-'92 - ie. Demonize Saddam by calling him "Hitler revisited".

So now your 5th column attempts to demonize GW by calling him Hitler.

Very clever - imitation is the sincerest form of flattery.

EXCEPT - the American people are smarter than that - despite your efforts to turn their minds into mush in the classroom.

Despite the steady stream of mind-numbing crapola you’ve pumped out of Hollywood.

We will rebound.

You will not win.

Those whom you represent may be ascendent for a time, but evil has a way of self destructing. I just hope it does not take all of us down with it.

As for the comparison: If the shoe fits wear it.

Take a look at Hitler's rise to power.

Legally elected.

Demonization of the opposition.

Staged Terror event: Reichstag Fire.

Create Enemies

Suspension of Civil Liberties.

Demonization of the opposition.

Suppression of Opposition through "legal" means.

Aggressive Wars of Conquest.

Self Destruction (With a little help.)

Compare to Bush:

Legally? Elected?

Demonization of Opposition

Staged Terror Event: 911

Suppression of opposition through laws contavening the Constitution: "Patriot" Act, "Vaterland Sekurity" Act, and "Patriot" II waiting in the wings for the next staged terror event.

Demonization of Opposition

Create an Enemy

Wars of Aggression. Iraq now. Syria, Saudi Arabia, and Iran next. They are already talking about it. This by the proves that the Iraq War is not about Weapons of Mass Destruction or even the evils of Saddam Hussein.


In any event I invite people to compare, read the history of Hitler's rise to power. "The Rise and Fall of the Third Reich" Would be a good start.

Here is a good web site for reference on the Third Reich: www.thirdreich.net/


They thought they were free: http://www.thirdreich.net/Thought_They_Were_Free.html

They will laugh you and your TinFoil Hat wearing comrads off the stage.

"First they came for the Jews and I did not speak out because I was not a Jew. Then they came for the Communists and I did not speak out because I was not a communist. And then they came for the trade unionists and I did not speak out because I was not a trade unionist. And then they came for me and there was no one left to speak out for me."
Reverend Niemoeller

'The Fifth Column'? Man where do you dumb fucks keep getting this shit? Don't try to put a label on me. For that matter, I've never heard anyone here make any mention of anything even remotely like that. You are most likely trying to associate them with us for the sake of planting one of your freeper idiots at a presstitute orgy to do some nasty, bastardly shit in the name of "The Fifth Column". Please. That shit didn't work with apeboy monkeylad or whatever the hell his name was, nor will it work here.

We're Americans. We're Patriots. REAL Patriots, not like you sacks of shit so busy disgracing our colors you totally forget to pull your thumb out of your ass whilst cooking up some 'master plan' like this craptacular POS. I mean, damn, didn't ONE of you ever play chess? Well? You guys just suck. You should give up now while there's still some chance of not being incarcirated on life sentenes for war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Your leaders want to invade China. They think its a "good idea". What more proof could you possibly want that they are complete idiots.

When they sold you that crap about 'oh dont listen to them, theyre just "common" americans', what they meant was "if someone comes along and it sounds like they're making a lot of sense SHUT THEM OUT, just TUNE THEM OUT and DON'T LISTEN because they are Bad, unpatriotic flag burning america haters, and they are only 'common' americans, not 'exceptional' americans." And so when we come around making a hell of a lot of sense, you guys go into your four step SOP arguement, and if none of that crap works, you just call us the enemy, or a 'common american' (ie "useful idiot"), and walk away (probably whining and crying the whole way). Did it ever occur to you that maybe we DO know wtf is going on here? And that maybe our objection to it isn't just because it's Bad, but because it's Stupid? And not just Stupid. FATALLY Stupid. Stoooopid. You are going to get a lot of good decent american's killed in this inane, hopelessly flawed grasp at global hegemony. And you will quite possibly destroy our country in the process.

Many of you just tuned out that whole paragraph as an attempt at "Programming" you. It isn't programming, it's common sense. Your inclination to tune it out is a result of the programming they have imposed on you. I, and pretty much anyone here, will listen to anything you have to say and are completely capable of admitting it when you have a point. Very rarely do you guys make any valid points though, as most of you are just repeating whatever the freeper mothership told you to say. That is Bad Mojo. If you cannot think for yourself, than someone else is propably going to tell you when and where you are going to die. But most likely, they won't tell you why.

To the men and women of our military, I proudly support and thank you for your service, my condolences on the orders you have recieved. My apologies if my statements here ever seem to indicate that i am against our nations military. In no way is this the case. I am against the method in which you guys are used to further some beurocrat's personal ambitions and base greed.

Not to mention what you war mongers are doing to anyone that survives any of these many invasions. Our troops will returned mentally scarred, for life, from the knowledge that there was a good side and a bad side and that they just fought and killed for the Wrong side. Not to mention the poor bastards we inflict our guys (and gals) on. Lucky if there are any survivors at all left from little specs on the map like iraq and pals.

Despite what anyone tells you, nowhere, at any time, is it "ok" to pull that trigger. Never a good thing. Think about it, do you really want that blood on your hands? The only Just war is a war of self-defense, and even that still isn't a Good war (and we certainly aren't defending ourselves against Saddam). So if you have been issued an immoral order to kill a stranger who does not pose a threat to you, your team, your family, or your country, you must lay down your weapons. For your own sake as well as theirs. And who knows, the life you save might be your own.

>>I am against the method in which you guys
>>are used to further some beurocrat's
>> personal ambitions and base greed.

There appear to be "personal ambitions" involved on both sides of the issue.

To thine own self be true....

That i have some personal reasons for wanting to see this war happen, or not happen?

Are you so totally out of replies and rebuttal that you would imply that, for whatever reason, I want to see something bad happen to our guys over in that shithole? Or us over here? Or our nation? Pretty damn hard for me to maintain any sense of civility in light of accusations like that, if thats what you're saying.

Or perhaps you think I just don't like Bush. If thats the case, well congrads you get a cookie. I fucking HATE bush. That asshole has done nothing but fuck our country in the ear. Screw him. Screw his stupid goddamned war, and screw cheney too. They can all just go fuck off somewhere far away.

I don't get you maxim. You seem like a nice guy. You seem to have your countries interests at heart, sometimes anyways. Why then, would you pursue this insanity? Have you really given the process, the participants, and any potential outcome(s) much thought? How could this possibly work out well for us? And not just this crap with iraq. I would hope that by now you know whats up (PNAC), and that you know that i know whats up too. So lets just cut the chase. In what weird parallel dimension could this possibly work out for the benefit of america? Or anyone, anywhere aside from bush, his oil company bastard friends, cheney, and his defense industry bastard friends?

You don't strike me as one of these whitepower skutterheads, so whats your motivation behind this?

Dirty fagboy, your new name is Hussein-raper in Ohio, and I need to rub this in your face. Get ready:

Naninanibooboo, BITCH!

Were going to war, and you still protect Hussein, you bend over for your master too much. Go feel better about yourself and suck his cock.

I don't know whats worse, the fact that you would use the phrase 'naninanibooboo' in regard to a national military invasion, or the fact that you would do so THREE TIMES.

So not only are you a warmongerer, an accomplice to murderer by cooperating with our governments duplicity, a closet fag, and an idiot; you're 13 too.

This is not a goddamn video game. The people of iraq do actually exist. They do not just sit around all day and think mean thoughts about christians and whitepeople no matter what your kkk kubscout leader told you.

Just give up. Leave the politics for the adults junior. Go find a boyfriend and leave the rest of the world alone.

making you all sound like the biggg bbahhhhwwwwddd woof.

Boo.

Really, you're just a buncha panzy-assed wannabe commies.

Bring your black blocs! Bring your protests! JUST BRING IT!!!!

Jr. , your comments here and elsewhere bring this quote to mind:

"Hey people, I don't know about bein' black - but sometimes I ain't to proud of being white" - Frank Zappa


Please engage brain before starting keyboard.

...to evil is obedience to God. Oppose the sowers of Death and Destruction.

I'm refering to Mr. Naninanibooboo - not about Eric

Help David Expose The Leftist Campaign to Control America's Young Minds

How do you feel about the torrent of anti-American venom that academics inject into the minds of our future leaders? How do you feel about paying for our children to get only half an education? I mean, after all, how can they be getting a good education when they’re getting only half the story?

You know me and what I stand for. My name is David Horowitz, Founder and President of Center for the Study of Popular Culture (CSPC), and I’m in the middle of a battle to take back our campuses.

I’ve written a new booklet describing what is happening on campuses across the country. It’s called “Political Bias in America’s Universities,” and I have a FREE copy of it available for you.

“Political Bias in America’s Universities” details not just what’s wrong in academics today, but also the steps you and I can take to restore sanity to our colleges and universities.

And when you read comments like that above you quickly realize that something is terribly wrong at our institutions of higher learning.

You see, beginning in the mid-1960s, the left made a concerted effort to take over our colleges and universities. The turmoil surrounding the Viet Nam war made our schools ripe for leftist pickings, and they did -- they methodically took over our campuses …

… now, four decades later, they have a stranglehold on hiring, teaching, and administering most of our schools in all 50 states!

As they’ve taken control, they’ve trampled free speech, virtually banished conservative professors, and turned our schools into little more than huge megaphones for anti-American rhetoric from coast to coast.

Today you can do or say anything you want on our campuses -- provided it’s laced with negative sentiment about our nation, our Bill of Rights, our Constitution, our culture … you get the idea.

I believe it’s time to take our schools back. But I cannot do it alone, I need your help. A contribution gift of $25, $35, $50, $100 or more will enable us to build upon our success and fully fund the NATIONAL CAMPAIGN TO TAKE BACK OUR CAMPUSES.

Help David Horowitz in the battle to take back our campuses!

...to replace Leftish Trash Propaganda with good Wholesome NeoCon Propaganda.

Kill the Sand Niggers for Jesus and take the Oil!

Spare me.

I want all my fellow losers out there to know that I've changed my mind, I now support the war and SPECIAL ANNOUNCEMENT- I have a job now at Burger King

...being an amateur disinformation artist at least you could learn to spell.

Or is that in the next grade?

I also enjoy talking to myself

I guess the question that he is raising I assume is:

"Is it ok for the left to breach the law and the civil rights of people (through violence or whatever) in opposition to what they debatably see as the police or the military doing the same?"

then a conservative will inevitably say
"your side is illegal and immoral but mine isnt anyway"
however the funny thing is that it is this very not practicing what you preach that the left accuses the right of in terms of its foreign affiars.
Ie "we will kill people to stop further killing"

however it is firmly imbedded in how socialists aims to force socialism upon a country with a "temporary" period of authoritarianism that rather resembles facism.

>>Why then, would you pursue this insanity?

You don't salute the person - you salute the rank.

His is Commander In Chief.

Protesting did not stop anything - did it? I did not believe that it would.

What it did do, however, was make those men and women in uniform, standing out in the desert - with their hearts in their throats, feel like CRAP when they saw the "peace" movement paraded around on the media.

I'm doing the best I can to keep their moral up by letting them know that there ARE people back home who feel differently than you do.

For now, GW is Commander in Chief, you're free, of course, to try do demote him in November of 2004


Undermining the Commander in Chief at a time of war makes the nation vulnerable to it's enemies - both foreign and domestic.

You mentioned China - do you think they would not love the chance to pounce - if Mr. "Smith's" little socialist revolution was successful?

See above - Maximus.

Submission Cult of False Dissent.
THE LEFT ON
RELIGION
"Asahara claims that he has traveled forward to the year 2006 and has talked to people who have survived World War III. Asahara called for the group to fight in a final world revolution against the enemies of Japan, including the US. The group established a number of chemical factories and stockpiled various chemicals, as preparation for this Armageddon. There have been allegations that Asahara had ordered the assassination of at least one of his followers. "
http://www.religioustolerance.org/dc_aumsh.htm
THE LEFT ON
CLASS STRUGGLE
"The current nation, as we know it, will not be around for much longer. It cannot be, because it is not a nation with one nationality, but rather a multi-racial, multi-ethnic evil empire about to experience the reality of 'diversity' being not a source of strength, but rather
conflict inevitable."
"The problem, as any White Nationalist knows, isn't in the Black Nationalists, who are really potential allies, but rather in the corrupt criminal regimeists, who are the real enemies. Given their criminal nature, it is a waste of time to negotiate with them for our freedom, just as it is undesirable for us to leave them alive to corrupt our future White Nationalist nations."
"These regime criminals have usefully segregated themselves into professions such as lawyers, politicians, bankers, police. So now that they have made themselves known as oppressors to the people by their conduct, it is an easy thing to identify them for justice."
"A second consideration is that the other racial nationalists are similarly oppressed by white regime criminals, and have similarly recognized them as well."
"Who does the White Nationalist view as his predominant enemy? The Black Nationalist? No. The Hispanic Reconquestadorito of California? No. Rather he views the criminal regimeist White Establishment ZOG/NWO as not only the most dangerous enemy but as a racial traitor as well. To hear the Black Nationalists denounce the Jews as "bloodsuckers" is music to the ears of a White Nationalist. Any White Nationalists hearing Khallid Muhammad's speech will both laugh and say, "Them niggers are starting to figure it out. Now go ahead and burn down Jew York, Jew York."
http://users.mo-net.com/mlindste/blakdawn.html

A WARNING
"When you get into one of these groups, there's only a couple of ways you can get out. One is death. The other is mental institutions. Or third, you can't get out."
-Mr. GRIFFIS

...flaky tracts. Now sit there comfortably and the nice men in the White Jackets will be there shortly.

Greetings.

"You don't salute the person - you salute the rank."

I salute neither in this case. The person is despicable, the rank was stolen, but most importantly, the plan is what bears closest scrutiny. One should never accept a plan on blind faith. Regarding details, yes certainly it is best to defer to superior judgement... but at least the abstract logic of a plan should always be immanently obvious to the participants. Especially in regards to something as drastic and irrevocable as war. There should be no questioning the ultimate goal. Here we have complete division of opinion regarding the ultimate goal yet unity in the details, ie, support our troops, saddam is a badguy, freedom is good. When such unity exists in regards to your details yet does not in ours implies that yours are rhetorical and obvious, and thus an indirect lie by being such a bold statement of the obvious. How can you object to the statement 'No War'? How can that illicit venemous response (as it does time and again from the warparty). War is an undeniably ugly, stupid, cruel thing. Even if you support these actions you still must oppose war or your opinion is clearly the frantic dribble of a violent psycho. Only violent psycho's root for war, and if 'support our troops' and 'remember 911' aren't frantic dribble, i don't know what is.

"His is Commander In Chief." - No his is governor. And again, I don't care if he was bozo the clown and his rank was head shiznittle, if his plan was as halfbaked and murderous as that PNAC crap i'd be rallying against bozo the clown too. Oh wait, I am though....

"Protesting did not stop anything - did it? I did not believe that it would. " You imply that to have effect it must have prevented the war or else it was negligble effort. This is incorrect. I participated in the hopes that it may have some effect but the realistic knowledge that it probably won't because our leaders are corrupt and what do they care if we are unhappy about it. No, I went for two reasons.

1) See, first hand, how the press lies. And i did, and they do.

2) Conduct an independant survey. If you can't trust your own numbers whose can you trust. And i'm not just talking about head counts either. The phrase "Honk for peace" can be used as a survey, and it was by me, and i found that 2-3 of 40 would give a clear indication of their disapproval, approx 10 of them would say nothing or forcefully non-respond, and the rest would all honk, and usually cheer and participate a bit as well. A few will actually pull over and join in.

And all this with absolutely 0 press. We are word of mouth and internet based, and wield remarkable market share for a campaign that commands very little in the way of a marketting budget. Whereas the prowar people can rapidly implement a prexisting propoganda machine with a substantial PR campaign enjoying widespread support in the media, business districts, and certain religous institutions. For a great example of all three, consider Kmart's Easter Egg Baskets w/ Toy Soldiers in them. What the hell kind of nightmare is that. might as well say 'Jesus and Kmart say: Go kill them ragheads boys! Good luck and happy hunting'. Visualize an extremely well armed easter bunny. Thats just not right.

Yet even with all this on your side you do not get the turn out. Why is this? Decency does not need a sales pitch.

"What it did do, however, was make those men and women in uniform, standing out in the desert - with their hearts in their throats, feel like CRAP when they saw the "peace" movement paraded around on the media."

They're invading. I appreciate that they would invade on my behalf but in the end they did agree to go to far away lands and blow them up. That will need to rest on their heads and there is little I can do to change that. I can give them some degree of hope that the whole damn world has not gone completely mad though, and that is what I am attempting to do. I have always supported our troops as best I possibly can. I will continue to by not passing judgement when they return home. No one i've spoken with in the anti-war movement has been particularly anti-military-personnel at all. We mostly all hate bush and his mafia of halfwit crooneys. To imply that we can not dislike bush's "politics" without attacking our nations troops is a rather underhanded tactic. i.e., Have you stopped eating babies yet?

"For now, GW is Commander in Chief, you're free, of course, to try do demote him in November of 2004" - you think so eh. I remain speculative. Besides, he is only a symptom of the problem. Non elected presidential staff and advisors are major cause of this entire damn fiasco... They infect washington like a plague and you can't get rid of them because you never elected them in the first place.

"Undermining the Commander in Chief at a time of war makes the nation vulnerable to it's enemies - both foreign and domestic."

Again, consider my stance regarding his rank. Also bear in mind that our being in a state of war was entirely his decision and went against the repeated, loud protests of the entire damn world. Also, spreading our forces out on a theater of operations that spans three different continents for what is supposedly the pursuit of a very small handful of men is hardly an effecient distrobution of resources.

And domestic enemies are a myth. If any exist at all its because of loose border control. What you are implying here is that people opposed to our governments unlawful international acts of aggression are now 'domestic enemies', so as to relate us to one of the elements our military has sworn to 'defend us' from. I for one disagree with the military ever being deployed against 'domestic enemies'. If the home front has any security issues there are law enforcement personel to attend to as much. If you turn the military against them, or suggesting that as much should be done, you are guilty of the very same tyranny our government proclaims its fighting against (as it bombs the hell out of some rock in the middle of timbuktu). I support our troops until the day they are called upon and report to 'deal with domestic enemies'. At that time my support ends. Police handle domestic problems, the military kills foriegners, thats just how it works, when that changes many, many other things change irrevocably at the same time.

"You mentioned China - do you think they would not love the chance to pounce - if Mr. "Smith's" little socialist revolution was successful?" Well maybe if we'd stop poking them with a stick we'd have no problems. Or publishing our leaders plans to 'democraticize' (what a word) their nation on the goddamned internet. Hell i can think of a handful of ways off the top of my head to avoid pissing off china, and none of them are 'establish a basehead in the middleeast', or 'begin random unprovoked acts of national aggression in pursuit of material gains'.

And once again, please stop trying to associate me to someone elses plans, I don't know who this mr smith is, i can't find reference to his diabolical socialist plans anywhere, nor do i really care much about them anways. I just want our country to get back on the path of sanity, and decency. I don't know what smith is talking about but I don't advocate the destruction of our government, only the drastic downsizing of our federal branch and the immediate removal of george bush and dick cheney from office.

And no one will be invading america anytime soon, not china, not the canadians, nobody. If our forces are weakened by being over extended in far away hostile lands, i don't see how me waving around a sign to bring them home is doing anything to harm them or my country.

However, you're "supporting" them by handing them some ammo, shoving them towards some strangers, and telling them to open fire. Very supportive. And noble, oh so very noble.

We never were attacked by Germany, we just INVADED!!! And we didn't even do so when Germany was a huge threat, but only after the U.S.S.R had beaten it down. But we didn't invade it right away, we waited till France was liberated, Italy was crushed, and the Soviets were on the other border. Then we rolled in like a bunch of rapists and pillagers. There is nothing in the Constitution that authorizes an invation for territorial takeover, but we just went ahead and did it anyway. The mindless American masses went along with it, even though there was no way that Germany was a threat to anyone by 1945. They were completely contained, but the public was swayed by the evil FDR regime's comparison of Hitler to Hitler, which was invalid on its face.

But I doubt you're an American.

These "concerned" voices could be coming from anywhere - like iraq, bejing, hanoi, Saigon… you get the picture.

Just because this is la.indymedia does not mean everybody in here is physically located in LA... or even the U.S.A.

Transparency is soo cool.

The fifth column or black bloc are nothing but upper middle class pussies who can't fight their way out of a paper bag. If you see them, challenge them and watch them run and cry.

The fifth column or black bloc are nothing but upper middle class pussies who can't fight their way out of a paper bag. If you see them, challenge them and watch them run and cry.

Anarchist punks cry like girls and beg for mercy when youz give em a nice solid boot stomping.

Jesus, I can't believe the paranoid bullshit you seem to believe. Did all your lefty fathers butt stroke you as children is that your problem? So much hatred for America her leadership and her freedom. You call Bush a Nazi and warship Saddam and condone his murderous rule of Iraq. You assholes need a good butt stroking then you need to move to someplace nice like Iran or Syria. With a little luck you too could be a dictator and mass muderer. Not in America though the left is finished forever.

Liberals all hate their fathers - who fingered them

"Now sit there comfortably and the nice men in the White Jackets will be there shortly."

White robes of purity worn by the jihadis?
Every indymedia loon is a jihadi, whether or not he rebutts with, my god is love, or IM NOT ISLAMIC DUMBASS!, Take the word islam and convert it into english, SUBMISSION. You indy types are the biggest submission cult of false dissent i've ever encountered, worthy of being called INDY-MUJAHIDEEN, fighters for allah.

I beat women - so what?

Dio, everyone seemed to ignore something I caought in your comments of the other day. did you say Bush staged 9/11?

World Citizen, I'm surprised with a name like World Citizen, you have not heard THE SUBMISSION CULT OF FALSE DISSENT manifesto.
here it is http://www.whatreallyhappened.com , just be sure to remember rule number 1 of the SUBMISSION cult, muslims and jihad must never be blamed. They are our nobelmen.

I am a little unclear on the Nobility of anyone who flies jetliners into buildings, be they Muslim or Buddhist.