Working on this new server in php7...
imc indymedia

Los Angeles Indymedia : Activist News

white themeblack themered themetheme help
About Us Contact Us Calendar Publish RSS
Features
latest news
best of news
syndication
commentary


KILLRADIO

VozMob

ABCF LA

A-Infos Radio

Indymedia On Air

Dope-X-Resistance-LA List

LAAMN List




IMC Network:

Original Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: ambazonia canarias estrecho / madiaq kenya nigeria south africa canada: hamilton london, ontario maritimes montreal ontario ottawa quebec thunder bay vancouver victoria windsor winnipeg east asia: burma jakarta japan korea manila qc europe: abruzzo alacant andorra antwerpen armenia athens austria barcelona belarus belgium belgrade bristol brussels bulgaria calabria croatia cyprus emilia-romagna estrecho / madiaq euskal herria galiza germany grenoble hungary ireland istanbul italy la plana liege liguria lille linksunten lombardia london madrid malta marseille nantes napoli netherlands nice northern england norway oost-vlaanderen paris/Île-de-france patras piemonte poland portugal roma romania russia saint-petersburg scotland sverige switzerland thessaloniki torun toscana toulouse ukraine united kingdom valencia latin america: argentina bolivia chiapas chile chile sur cmi brasil colombia ecuador mexico peru puerto rico qollasuyu rosario santiago tijuana uruguay valparaiso venezuela venezuela oceania: adelaide aotearoa brisbane burma darwin jakarta manila melbourne perth qc sydney south asia: india mumbai united states: arizona arkansas asheville atlanta austin baltimore big muddy binghamton boston buffalo charlottesville chicago cleveland colorado columbus dc hawaii houston hudson mohawk kansas city la madison maine miami michigan milwaukee minneapolis/st. paul new hampshire new jersey new mexico new orleans north carolina north texas nyc oklahoma philadelphia pittsburgh portland richmond rochester rogue valley saint louis san diego san francisco san francisco bay area santa barbara santa cruz, ca sarasota seattle tampa bay tennessee urbana-champaign vermont western mass worcester west asia: armenia beirut israel palestine process: fbi/legal updates mailing lists process & imc docs tech volunteer projects: print radio satellite tv video regions: oceania united states topics: biotech

Surviving Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: canada: quebec east asia: japan europe: athens barcelona belgium bristol brussels cyprus germany grenoble ireland istanbul lille linksunten nantes netherlands norway portugal united kingdom latin america: argentina cmi brasil rosario oceania: aotearoa united states: austin big muddy binghamton boston chicago columbus la michigan nyc portland rochester saint louis san diego san francisco bay area santa cruz, ca tennessee urbana-champaign worcester west asia: palestine process: fbi/legal updates process & imc docs projects: radio satellite tv
printable version - js reader version - view hidden posts - tags and related articles

BEN FRANKLIN ON THE CHICKEN HAWKS AND THE PELOPONNESIAN WAR.

by Rosalinda Thursday, Mar. 13, 2003 at 10:41 PM

Benjamin Franklin compared the pause in the Peloponnesian Wars, before their flight-forward plunge into the Sicilian invasion (by Alcibiades), with the situation in London at the end of the "French and Indian Wars" of 1756-1763: "Athens had her orators. They did her sometimes a great deal of good, at other times a great deal of harm; the latter particularly when they prevailed in advising the Sicilian war, under the burthen and losses of which war that flourishing state sunk, and never again recovered itself. ...”

In April, 1767, Benjamin Franklin's "Reply to

Coffee-House Orators" was published in London, being his response

to the chatter in England about using force to teach the colonies a lesson.

Franklin saw the efforts of the new William Pitt government

to tax-farm the colonies as an imperial move; and he

compared the pause in the Peloponnesian Wars, before their

flight-forward plunge into the Sicilian invasion (by Alcibiades),

with the situation in London at the end of the "French and Indian

Wars" of 1756-1763:

"Athens had her orators. They did her sometimes a great deal

of good, at other times a great deal of harm; the latter

particularly when they prevailed in advising the Sicilian war,

under the burthen and losses of which war that flourishing state

sunk, and never again recovered itself. To the haranguers of the

populace among the ancients, succeed among the moderns -- your

writers of political pamphlets and news-papers, and your

coffee-house talkers.

"It is remarkable that soldiers by profession, men truly and

unquestionably brave, seldom advise war but in cases of extream

necessity. While mere rhetoricians, tongue-pads and scribes,

timid by nature, or from their little bodily exercise deficient

in those spirits that give real courage, are ever bawling for war

on the most trifling occasions, and seem the most blood-thirsty

of mankind....

"Every step is now taking to enrage us against America.

Pamphlets and news-papers flie about, and coffee-houses ring with

lying reports of its being in rebellion. Force is call'd for.

Fleets and troops should be sent.... The principal people should

be brought here and hang'd, &c.... "[W]hen the wolf is determined

on a quarrel with the lamb, up stream or down stream 'tis all

one; pretences are easily found or made, reason and justice are

out of the question." [Found in Spring, 2003 Fidelio, p. 57.]

COLIN POWELL AND NICIAS. For some experts on Greek history,

Colin Powell's situation today is very reminiscent

of that of the Athenian military commander Nicias,

who attempted, unsuccessfully, to stop the folly of the Greek invasion of Sicily.

The effects of Athens' decision, late in the Peloponnesian

War, to attack Syracuse (in Sicily) was what finally ruined the

power of Athens forever. Syracuse was the largest, and arguably

the strongest and wealthiest Greek city. Although its culture

was Dorian, like the Spartans, it was not engaged militarily, and

had no intention of attacking the Athenian Empire. But the

Athenians were deluded into thinking that they could seize the

riches of Syracuse.

In the debate in Athens, as recorded by Thucydides, the

experienced commander Nicias argued against the project.

Alcibiades, the brilliant but unscrupulous former student of

Socrates, argued for it. The last part of Nicias' argment, after

his other reasons were rejected, was to cite the enormous size of

the fleet and army which Athens would need for such a campaign.

Instead of rejecting the whole idea, as he had hoped they would,

the Athenians voted to provide the forces which he said would be

required, however vast. Nicias and Alcibiades were sent as commanders.

At first, Athens achieved some successes. Alcibiades was

called back home to answer charges of sacrilegious conduct, but

fled to exile in Sparta, leaving Nicias the sole commander.

A Spartan army came to reinforce the Syracusans. When the tide

turned against Athens, Nicias wrote home that the expedition must

either be recalled at once, or else massively reinforced.

Athens sent Demosthenes to Sicily with more troops, but in the end,

the entire expedition was lost, and every man killed either in battle

or in captivity, or else sold into slavery.

Report this post as:

© 2000-2018 Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by the Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Running sf-active v0.9.4 Disclaimer | Privacy