Mr. Bush have lost the war and I Saddam Hussein is winning on all fronts, it is the "MOTHER OF ALL VICTORIES".

It is dead simple, I have just invested US$ ONE BILLION for PR organizations around the world to arrange for demonstration with banner " NO TO WAR YES TO SADDAM".
The US adminstration knows that money can make anythings, they were planning to launch Public Relations campaigne to win the heart and mind of American and the masses around the world.

They were planning to invest $50 million, and frankly it is a joke for me, therefore I decided to invest $1000,0000,000 for world wide PR that ignite demonstrations to win the heart and mind of America and the world.

Since the Gulf war I am still in my seat and look at BUSH the father, Thatcher, John Major, Clinton, and many head of states have they not gone to dust bin of history?, but I am here to stay and if not me my son ready to take over.

So far, I have been practicing the most cruel methods of torures and killing from dissolving people in Nitric Acid to mass chemical attack as I did on HLABJA-THE KURDISH TOWN when more than 5000 wiped out.
More than one million Iraqi and Iranian killed in Iraq/Iran during the War I started.

Invaded Kuwait and caused human catostrophy with the aftermath sanction. The sanction is, of course, by the US/UK but If I did not invade Kuwait nothing could have happened.
I am here to stay and I enjoy killing, you know the first man I killed was my stepfather when I was 10 years old.

It is true that the British Embassy in Baghdad picked me up to be the dictator of Iraq, and it is true that all my brutal wrong doing were under the direct suppervision of the last five US adminstrations.
Simply I was a yes man, they were insisting that I have to do the most unimaginable suffering on Iraqis to bring them to their kness so when America decided to invade Iraq, Iraqi should welcome the invaders.

THANKS DEMONSTRATORS AROUND THE GLOBE, SORRY YOU PAID YOUR OWN TRANSPORTATION AND DID NOT GET ANY THING FROM THE $1000,000,000 that I paid for the PR monsters around the world.

Hi Sadam, is that really you?

Sorry Saddam, but your support is mostly whackos and weirdos. They don't have any real influence.

There were a million of them out there marching for you in Rome Saddam. But there were only 3,000 in Houston. What does that prove? It proves there are a lot more whackos in Rome than in Houston (thank goodness).

New York was an embarrassment, but then, New York, like Hollywood, is always an embarrassment. Lots of weirdos there too.

So don't be so smug Saddam. Real patriotic sober Americans hate your guts.

"New York was an embarrassment, but then, New York, like Hollywood, is always an embarrassment."

If New York is an embarrassment, LA is an atrocity.

Yes kids you too can be a paid shill and provateur. It’s easy and fun. All you have to do is take cheap shots at people who would like to see and end to the tide of blood rolling across the planet.

You can make a personality disorder into a profitable pastime.
We are looking for:
Pscyopaths
Schizoids
Sociopaths and
anyone with a lack of those qualities men call good.

You can defend killing, torture disguised as law enforcement, and help subvert the founding principle of the U.S.A. and help put an end to such silly notions as free speech, freedom of conscience, freedom of assembly, the right to be secure in your person and your papers, and to help erect the first truly global tyranny.

See the C.I.A. Recruitment Officer today.

Contact us at our Langely Office or check back alleys to see if we are lurking about sniffing into the affairs of people who falsely believe in freedom.

The way they jump up and down for
peanuts.
Here, have one.
Now entertain us some more.

Some of you need to get your heads out of your asses and become educated about what is going on around you.

If it was really about "No Blood for Oil," our President would have lifted sanctions against Iraq years ago. The oil would be flowing and you would be paying 35 cents/gallon for gas. He will not compromise the balance and security of the world so you can save money when you fill up at the pump. I commend the President for being pro-active in the fight against terrorism. You need to root out the problem before it becomes a bigger one. Also, a big thank you to that white-trash loser Clinton for forcing Israel to release Mohammad Atta in 1998. Look how he repaid us: he flew a plane into the World Trade Center.

And as far as my driving a SUV and supporting terrorism: All of you jackasses have probably never done a single thing for your country, and you have the balls (or lack thereof) to make snap judgements about me?? If it was not for hard-working, patriotic Americans like me, who have devoted their lives to the safety of our great nation, you would be speaking Nazi or Arabic or some other form of useless communication. When the terrorists take over the country after I am gone, let us see how much compassion they have for your protests. Oh, I forgot, that right would have been taken away right before they killed you and your family.

Instead of hugging trees, smoking pot and bad-mouthing your country, why don't you try to help solve the problem instead of creating one? But, what did I expect? If you are that un-educated and ignorant to see the whole picture, my words of banter are probably going right over your head.

In closing, it is time to punch in and get the facts straight before you look even more foolish than you do now.

Bravo 14! Well said!

These kids protest like crazy, yet I bet that not one of them has served this country....

This is what my generation is turning into, a bunch of extreme leftists with no respect for our history, and how we survived through the years...

They would much rather dismantle our military and let us be overrun by Mexico, China, or whoever wants us.... They would love to see our great capitalistic system dismantled, and a system of communism installed.... Didn't we fight for DECADES to squash communism? Thought so!

It would be great to oneday see this country as one like in WW1 and WW2, we need to stop these no good protesters before they destroy this GREAT country!

Well Saddam, I like your style, while you have outlasted the Former President Bush, and Clinton thus far you neglected to point out several vital peices of information that would help the readers better understand your personal business relation to the power elite in the USA. When your army invaded Iran and killed all those Iranians you had the backing of the USA who was pissed off that the people of Iran had overthrown the CIA installed Shaw. When Saddam asked if he could invade Kuwait because the Kuwait's were using slant drilling technology to drill oil from under Iraq, and were overproducing their OPEC agreed amount of oil, thus lowering the price per barrel world wide, the first Bush Administration told him that they had no defensive agreement with Kuwait, thus giving Saddam the green light to invade. Then I am sure most of you will recall tyhe sad story that the Media used to brainwash the ignorant american public into backing the invasion of Iraq, the tale of a young Kuwaitee girl who said she witnessed baby's being thrown out of incubators by Iraqi troops after Iraq had invaded Kuwait, a kingdom that historically had belonged to Iraq, until the british drew a line on a map and made Kuwait its own nation. Well the tale of the babys was an utter lie, a lie that mobolized the world to massacre Saddams troops in the slaughter known as desert storm. And finally everone needs to look at all the business trips Donald Rumsfeild took to Iraq as the Specail envoy to Iraq under the Bush/Reagan administration, when Bush was really running the show after Reagan had nearly gotten blown away.

...Was well put. Thank you
for an eloquent analysis, Randy Grant.

Good response, Randy.

The situation was actually worse during the Iran/Iraq war. The US was supplying Saddam with billions of dollars worth of weapons, the weapons that he now has to hide since he became an enemy of the imperialist West. The weapons provided included serious chemical agents whose effects can still be seen if you walk the streets of Teheran. Not that many people from the US would ever bother to see what their country has done and/or supported in places like Panama, Nicaragua, Guatemala, Angola, El Slavador, Kosovo, Bosnia... Anyway, the results of that 8-year war between Iraq and Iran killed over a million people and made Saddam one of the models of success of US-backed leaders in the world during the Reagan years. Too bad those pesky IMF austerity policies weren't implemented properly by Saddam, otherwise he might still be receiving the huge flow of arms to exterminate more Kurds like the Turks are doing. But the US would never attack Turkey--they provide us with strategic military positions in the region.

It is also important to recall that the US crushed a democratic revolution in Iran to re-install the Shah. In case this point is unclear: the US ended democracy in Iran. As it did in most South and Central American countries from the 50s-80s and is now trying to do in Venezuela. This is to say nothing of the paramilitary proxy wars in Colombia and soon Bolivia.

If people really think that the US is the defender of human rights and the leader against dictatorships, they should look to the most recent war in Afghanistan and see what the commitment of the US is to the countries it attacks. Even now as factional wars by local warlords rage more fiercely in Afghanistan, the US only allotted USD 300 million for the "rebuilding" of Afghanistan when we spent over USD 1 billion a day to bomb them. Perhaps this might have been avoided if the US didn't fund and arm the Taliban in the 80s and 90s--of course, that alternative was relegated to the waste bin of history since peaceful options and diplomatic alternatives are never an option in US foreign policy. This is the face of military humanism...

I don't know what you've been smoking Randy, but you remind me of this guy:

http://www.calvin.edu/academic/cas/gpa/goeb47.htm

Kudos to you, Randy, for calling our country an imperialistic state. It scares me to no end that there are dipshitted people such as yourself who feed off of the system, then have the gall to defame it. If things are so bad, why don't you leave? You can take all of those who support affirmative action with you. Not to mention all of the illegals who come into my great country, have their babies, go on welfare, and drive medical costs through the roof for all of us average Joes. It is sad to know that the ignorant will amass and drive my country into the shitter.
My grandfather fought, my father fought, and I fought; what have you done for your country? You probably took your classes at some shit-box college (financial aid I bet, considering you are a loser) and think you know how things work. If it were not for the sacrifices of great men, such as my grandfather at the Battle of the Bulge, my father in Dan Nang, and myself in the Gulf War, you would be protesting about something else of irrelevance. And, yes, the atrocities you liberal butt-wipes heard about were true; I was there and I know what those bastards did. I felt no remorse in shooting every fucking one of thos Iraqis I came across. They deserved everything we gave them. I respected them more than bystanders such as yourself; at least they had the balls to try and take me out. You just sat home at your flag-burning parties while you sucked up what the system gave you. Now you want to trash the system?

Go fuck yourself and take Jane Fonda with you.

Why must one "do something" for one's country before criticizing it? Why is it such a litmus test? It's just patriotism and nationalism to me.

Do we demand the same of an Iraqi refugee when they criticize Iraq? "Hey, what have you done for Iraq?" Of course not. We wish they would hate Iraq, and maybe even hate themselves for not being Americans.

We're all global people living in our local worlds.

The US is at one with hypocrisy.

How can the righties say anything about justice, peace and democracy?

They gave saddam these weapons so that he would use them against Iran. Saddam has ALWAYS been an asshole to his own people but they supported him all that time.

Now since they are afraid that those weapons will be turned against them all of a sudden they wish to remove saddam from power. Not only that, they insist that they are removing saddam to "bring freedom to the middle east."

HYPOCRITES HYPOCRITES HYPOCRITES
TWO FACED SCUM TWO FACED SCUM TWO FACED SCUM
VENGEFUL VENGEFUL VENGEFUL
PARANOID PARANOID PARANOID
BLOODTHIRSTY BLOODTHIRSTY BLOODTHIRSTY
SAVAGES SAVAGES SAVAGES

I think I can find things on both sides of this argument with which I disagree:

First let’s get a couple of definitions correct.

Patriotism: A love of country characterized by a desire to see for it the best. Identification with and loyalty to the land of one’s birth.

Jingoism: An extreme and exaggerated form of patriotism. Especially one which advocates chauvinistic policies and a belligerent foreign policy.

Chauvinism: boastful, warlike patriotism; unreasoning enthusiasm for the military glory of one's country; jingoism.


As you can see by these definitions a jingoist is not necessarily a true patriot. Military Mike is a good example of a Jingoist. His belligerent attitude seems to be of the “my country right or wrong - kill them all and let God sort them out” kind of patriotism. Meaning he really is not a patriot because he is not standing in defense of not the best interests of the nation as a whole but instead is evidencing a loyalty to a single faction within that nation. And I would add one that has it’s own best interests at heart, first, foremost, and always. They are not Patriots. They would appear to be the kind of people that would regard Military Mike as a useful Sucker. Not only that his ignorance of the Dark Side of American History makes it more difficult to attack the problems we face. Lest you think I am picking on you Mike take a look for starters at the book “Day of Deceit” - how Roosevelt maneuvered the Japanese into attacking us a way to get the U.S. into a war he had pledged to keep us out of.

Unfortunately the faction in power does have designs of empire. This does not bode well for the freedom of ordinary American Citizens. That is something for which the Bush people have no respect as evidenced by their actions to undermine and subvert the Constitution.

I rather like what Clarence Darrow commented:
“A true patriot hates injustice in his own land more than in any other.”

John K would seem to make the same error from the other end - mistakenly equating Patriotism with Jingoism and with that faction which would misuse the military might of this nation for it’s own petty ends.

“Why must one "do something" for one's country before criticizing it? Why is it such a litmus test? It's just patriotism and nationalism to me.”

You don’t have to do something for this country before criticizing it. You just won’t have any credibility. It’s easy to set on the sidelines and bitch and moan. It takes a little effort to add something. And there is nothing wrong with nationalism - as long as you don’t lose sight of the fact that all of humanity is in this together. It is natural and normal to identify with ones homeland (damn Bush for making homeland into a dirty word and perverting it into justifying a home grown Gestapo).

Both are wrong. From my point of view one can love this country without having to always agree with the faction in control of the government. I would argue that in some cases it is the height of Patriotism to oppose the designs of the current government.
We all have to decide for ourselves what is patriotic and what is not based on our own judgment. That is what it means to be free. You get to decide.

"Each man must for himself alone decide what is right and what is wrong, which course is patriotic and which isn’t. You cannot shirk this and be a man. To decide against your conviction is to be an unqualified and inexcusable traitor, both to yourself and to your country, let men label you as they may." - Mark Twain

the right as well as the left gave hussein weapons because iran was our #1 enemy at the time, he wasnt our pal, cept maybe yours because you suck his cock often, but nevertheless, its good to have two of your enemies to battle it out to the death, why waste american lives when theyll kill each other? Good question, huh, dumbfuck? As much as you try and portray america as some sick corrupted country, its way better than any country you support, namely iraq, iran, north korea, terrorists, you think that 9-11 was some conspiracy too, well, good for you fucking raghead. Why do iraqi refugees all agree with the war? Because they know the extent of saddams evil, gay ass motherfucker

actually mr. anti war protestors are idiots,

it sounds like you need some serious cock sucking, and quickly. I'd volunteer myself, but loathesome people generally aren't my type. I suggest you hie yourself down to the nearest gay bar and seek the relief you clearly so desperately need, so that you can rejoin the human community and open your eyes to self-evident human values.

By the bye, I believe patriotism is defined as "the last refuge of the scoundrel".

Also, it's FAR more important to do something for the *world* than for the country. Any idiot could see that. Patriotism is still-born altruism.

To everyone who had to use vulgarity or insult to post a message to this board. Do me a favor and copy down the message you wrote. Then read it again 10 years from now. Thanks.

To everyone who had to use vulgarity or insult to post a message to this board. Do me a favor and copy down the message you wrote. Then read it again 10 years from now. Thanks.

You'd think that for one billion dollars, "Saddam" could afford someone to correct his grammar...

A sobering reminder about the inventors of Weapons of Mass Destruction

During the second Indochina War, between 1961 and 1971, millions of litres of toxic chemicals, including a herbicide called Agent Orange - which contained dioxin - were sprayed over large parts of Vietnam. According to U.S. defence records, the U.S. Air Force sprayed 72 million litres of toxic chemicals, of which 44 million were Agent Orange - the most toxic chemical discovered so far.

Millions of Vietnamese people were exposed to Agent Orange during the war. It is estimated that today approximately one million people have disabilities or other health problems associated with Agent Orange, according to a number of pilot studies made in Vietnam. These studies estimate that approximately 100,000 of these adversely affected people are disabled children.

Does this, or does this not, make Sadam's forays into chemical warfare look small by comparison? (Although, of course, no less iniquitous by intent).

Who is the biggest war criminal? And where is the justice and compensation? Successive American governments have refused to grant any compensation to the Vietnamese victims - whilst they have granted compensation to their service men who were affected by the toxic chemicals.

I reckon if Milosovic can be sent to the Hague, then why not Kissinger.

thats true. and now in hindsight, people like mcnamara have admitted that their policies were terribly misguided. he claimed that their perception that the vietnam war was some sort of communist conspiracy was all so totally wrong.

the millions who died were killed because the american leadership had misplaced paranoia.

like right now. many america are just out for blood. its not as if saddam really is a threat to the region

Being a hired killer, or acting as support for hired killers (armies) for any regime on the planet does not count favorably toward karma points. Nor does it legally excuse you from your actions -- just ask those who were tried at Nuremburg, or who spent the rest of their lives (some still do) trying to hide the very fact of their existence.

While you ponder that thought, also consider this:

The United States is perhaps the LARGEST 'STOREHOUSE' of chemical, biological, nuclear and conventional weaponry ON PLANET EARTH, and has spent more time, effort, brainpower and money developing, devising and implimenting the delivery of those WEAPONS OF MASS DESTRUCTION than perhaps any single nation in the history of the planet.

In short, then according to President Bush, for the safety of the planet we ought to be attacking ourselves (his logic, not mine -- his raw definition of terrorism mind you), our military depots, our 'brain trusts', etc.

This is in fact pure madness.

Just ask any Gulf War veteran who is struggling with GWS -- a disease which is demonstrably the product of genetic manipulation, which has by now likely affected that veteran's entire immeidate family, and which can be epidemiologically proven to have been administered via 'vaccines' by many of the Allied commanders to their armies as a 'preventative measure'.

What are you waiting for? Go ahead. Ask any of the vets suffering from GWS if they believe the motives of our government are 'pure' and 'kind'. Then witness the fact that GWS is entirely absent from those troops whose commanders refused to 'allow' their soldiers to be vaccinated. It won't take you very long to figure out who's responsible for this biological nightmare -- and it ain't Saddam. I also doubt you'll find much support for your 'service' thesis among that group of veterans.

It so happens that some of us fringe types have indeed 'served' as several of you have so amicably put it. It's a mark of our recovering sanity that we might find your apparent definition of the word 'service' to be void of so much of the real meaning behind the term. The things you do against others of the world will revisit you with a vengance -- witness the pitiful lack of support for Bush and his incredibly ill-advised warmongering, all of these being obvious attempts to keep people from REMEMBERING HOW BAD THE U.S. ECONOMY HAS SUFERED UNDER HIS SO-CALLED 'LEADERSHIP' -- and in fact just who his true 'political friends' are anyways (Enron, Morton Thoikol, Exxon, BP, etc.)

Add to that the fact of PROVABLE FOREKNOWLEDGE of 911 on the part of the current administration, and you have ample grounds for impeachment.

But have it your way. I guess if you'd care to 'serve' a Commander in Chief (and he wears this title as if it were a baseball cap) this idotic, this corrupt, this morally bankrupt, well then fine. You go and do that, and you'll be judged the same.

Are you people being funny, or are you really so simple minded? Is this a joke? "We fought for forty years to squash communism..." Well we've been fighting for over a hundred and fifty to destroy a capitalist system that keeps power and capital in the hands of the few and oppresses the rest. Our biggest barrier are those that get a little handout from those in power and think that they are on your team. Wake up!! Equality for all is what we fight for, regardless of race, nation or any other superficial socio/economic distinction.

Moreover, dear Sadam lets not forget how the U.S. Government rallies the troops and sends them to far off lands only to return them home to forget about them. By now their government has forgotten their names, their wounds and those nasty diseases. Of course, all that unproven stuff and nonsense about harmful vaccines and depleted uranium. It is all in their heads. 600,000 youngsters went over and 400,000 returned sick. In the last twelve years, 10,000 have died of mysterious ailments. However, we the U.S. Government can always depend on sending more hearty troops to fight our dirty little wars and make lots of money for Bushes and their oil friends. Ask any Vietnam Veteran how familiar this all sounds to them.

Try talking to a few of the guys who developed debilitating Cancers from exposure to Agent Orange.

Try talking to the Vets over at Takebackthemedia.com.

Try talking to the Vets dying of exposure to DU rounds.

Try visiting Gulfwarvets.com

Communism..." communism..." communism..." hmmmm. I can not recall any harm that communism..." has ever done to me. However, then there is Captiolism. Just look around you PAL. Unemployment, homelessness, no healthcare, cuts in education. And Fuck! I guess you will tell me to go to another country if I don't like it here. Hell NO! I do not want to go to another country where I can be abused by the U.S. policies forced on the poor sots. I can get that right here.

"The Government should not do for the people what they can do for themselves." Abraham Lincoln (Inscribed over the Entrance to the Lincoln Memorial.)

The power to enforce edicts with force and the means of production in the same hands is the recipe for tyranny. Me.

"The Government should not do for the people what they can do for themselves." Abraham Lincoln (Inscribed over the Entrance to the Lincoln Memorial.)

The power to enforce edicts with force and the means of production in the same hands is the recipe for tyranny. Me.

When the government is what is funding education, who else do you think we should blame for cuts in education? Castro? Saddam Hussein? The man in the moon?

I love communism. Thats why all the communist countries combined can never match the economic might of one capitalist country, AMERICA.

You dirty neo-nazi, commie loving, america hating, anti war protesting freaks of nature will never learn. True, America makes mistakes, you guys LOVE IT WHEN AMERICA FUCKS UP.

But what happens when we make one? Do we just give up and leave the situation to correct itself, or do we go in and fix the problem? Do we focus on every single mistake America has made?

In your view, we can't do anything, because America is flawed, but I suggest otherwise, that Americans such as you make America flawed.

I know what you're going to say. You're gonna give me some bogus statistic on weapons, civilian deaths, etc, that AMERICA, not the poor dictatorships in the world, has committed.

To this I say SHUT UP, and les fix the mess that you peaceniks have made.

"Iraq on Sunday gloated over the global outpouring of opposition to the U.S. threat of attack, saying anti-war demonstrations in dozens of countries signaled an Iraqi victory and 'the defeat and isolation of America,' " the Associated Press reports. "Iraq's tightly controlled news media gave prominent coverage to anti-war demonstrations staged around the world on Saturday. Iraqi television showed footage of millions marching in the world's cities--under the logo 'International Day of Confronting the Aggression.' "

http://ap.tbo.com/ap/breaking/MGA768JU8CD.html

I know I'm going to get complaints about that headline. But if you think "antiwar" is not pro-Saddam, kindly answer Barbara Amiel's question: "If this were a genuine anti-war demonstration, why, along with demands on the British and Americans, would there be no demands of the other party to the conflict--Iraq?" These people may say they think arms are for hugging, but the inescapable logic of their position is that thugs are for arming.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2003/02/17/do1701.xml

Granted, not all protesters are *consciously* pro-Saddam or anti-American. Indeed, to judge by the placards on display, a significant number of the self-styled peaceniks are totally insensate. A Reuters photo shows someone in London's Hyde Park holding a sign that reads PEACE IN OUR TIME--apparently oblivious to the historical meaning of this phrase, which was Neville Chamberlain's slogan for appeasing Hitler. Blogger Mark Aveyard shows a Tallahassee, Fla., protester's sign (second photo) that reads WHO NEEDS OIL? I RIDE THE BUS. Notes Aveyard: "Apparently the buses in Tallahassee run on magic pixie dust." And the Right-Thinking.com blog (scroll down about two-thirds of the page) shows a guy carrying a placard that reads (quoting verbatim): "Killing Baby's and Woman With Lazer Guided Missiles is Stupid. No Smart Bombs Please."

http://story.news.yahoo.com/news?tmpl=story2&u=/030215/170/3a5m8.html&e=10

http://www.diablogger.com/archives/000011.html#000011

http://www.right-thinking.com/comments.php?id=P508_0_1_0

Canada's National Post manages to find perhaps the dumbest man alive, a guy who thinks dogs are human. The Post reports on Gustavo, a dog that is in Baghdad along with a group of "human shields," far-right (or is it far-left?) nuts who've gone to Baghdad to protest against the liberation of Iraq. The paper quotes one Kenneth Webb, "a dreadlocked vegan and fellow human shield," who says: "You know, I personally don't agree with a dog as a human shield. I mean, what choice does it have?"

http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?id=%7BB175497B-74C0-4329-AFA3-8B919563DDF3%7D

But there was a lot of undisguised anti-Americanism and anti-Semitism, too. In New York, Daily News columnist Michael Daly reports, some protesters taunted city firemen, calling them "fascists." The Right-Thinking.com album shows one sign declaring "Israel Is the Problem" and another with a Hitler-style mustache drawn over a photo of President Bush.

http://www.nydailynews.com/news/story/60082p-56251c.html

David Pryce-Jones notes that anti-Arab bigotry lies at the root of the "antiwar" agenda:

Their protests suggest that it is not worth risking anything at all to free Arabs. To risk spilling a single drop of blood to liberate Iraq would be futile--not merely because it would be "destabilising" or "kill children," but because the Arabs have no capacity for "Western" freedom anyway. Behind the demonstrators' slogans lies the assumption that Arabs should be left alone: they don't mind being brutalised, tortured and murdered by a fascist thug like Saddam. Where they come from, it is the natural order of things.

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=%2Fopinion%2F2003%2F02%2F16%2Fdo1601.xml

Mark Steyn makes an excellent point:

How far are the "peace" crowd prepared to go? Well, they've stopped talking about their little pet cause of the Nineties, East Timor, ever since the guys who blew up that Bali nightclub and whoever's putting together those "Osama" audio tapes started listing support for East Timor's independence as one of the Islamist grievances against the West. But why be surprised? In fall 2001, being pro-gay and pro-feminist didn't stop the left from defending an Afghan regime that disenfranchised women and executed homosexuals. Yet these are the same fellows who insist that a secular regime like Iraq's would never make common cause with Islamic fundamentalists, apparently requiring a higher degree of intellectual coherence of Saddam than of themselves.

http://www.nationalpost.com/commentary/story.html?id=FAE389F0-A759-4916-A9F3-127EB817D679

And what is the likely outcome of all this peacenikism? William Rees-Mogg in the Times of London says they're undermining their own stated goal:

The only way to avoid war is to convince Saddam Hussein that he has no choice left but to disarm. He has successfully avoided that conclusion for 12 years. Not unreasonably, the United States is not prepared to give him more time, whatever we may think. Peace is not impossible, but it is almost inconceivable unless Iraq disarms. Therefore any action which encourages Saddam Hussein not to disarm is extremely dangerous; it makes war more likely.

Beyond question, the Franco-German stand in the United Nations has encouraged Saddam Hussein. One must assume that these sophisticated governments knew what they were doing. Jacques Chirac and Gerhard Schröder must take the responsibility for making war more likely. Most of the marchers are not willing to face the reality of this risk. They are . . . innocents in a wicked world, such people as Lenin, when referring to foreign sympathisers with his dictatorship, unkindly called "useful idiots." The marchers did not think they were helping to maintain the torture chambers of Baghdad, but they were. They did not think that they were making war more likely--but they were.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,482-580445,00.html

And yet somehow many in the media take this stuff seriously. The New York Times allows as how their demonstrations "may not be as profound as the people's revolutions across Eastern Europe in 1989." May not? The idiots who took to the streets over the weekend were exercising the freedoms their governments exist to protect; that they were able to do so is a tribute to those governments, not to the protesters. Let's give credit only where due: Dissent is an act of great courage in a totalitarian state; in a democracy, it's entirely ordinary.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/02/17/international/middleeast/17ASSE.html

Spooks are out. All sorts of snips
of spook spoor. Booooooooooooooooooooooooo!
Please make us feel safe again.

Sigh! So many words so little proof. You can charicature any position by quoting the kookiest and most extreme elements of any group.
I could quote elements of the Aryan Right who support the war but it would be no more valid.
The Propaganda flying across the airwaves has about 70% of the public convinced that Saddam was responsible for 9-11. Of course anyone who takes the time to investigate those claims finds out very quickly that it is absurd nonsense and is simply the result of repeating an unrefuted lie (the "free" press does not allow it).
Most of the people in opposition to the war are not in the Kooky fringes but are ordinary people who have the extraordinary ability to see through the lies being peddled to sell this war. This makes them skeptical as to the real motivation.
Anyone who takes the time to investigate and actually look quickly finds out that the actions of the U.S. Government in the area have been anything but honorable. We have bombed their infrastructure, levied war upon their civilian population, and left the landscape contaminated with Depleted Uranium with a half life lasting for the next several MILLION years. Even the U.S. Army's Chief Doctor sent over to determine the extent calls it a crime.
The pro-War side, you, has presented no clear and convincing rationale, not riddled with lies, that makes it readily apparent the more killing is the order of the day. It is not that we in opposition have any love for Saddam, or wish to see him remain in power, it is that the toll in innocents is not justified. Particularly given the U.S.'s record of "humanitarian" behavior in the area the notion that the U.S. Government under the current Chickenhawk, pro-Zionist, regime is acting from humanitarian motivations is absurd. So is the notion that we are acting to protect the U.S. from Saddam - it' s absurdity boggles the mind for description.

"Records from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention and a 1994 Senate Banking Committee
investigation show that during Reagan's presidency, the United States sold Iraq anthrax, bubonic plague,
and botulinum toxin, all supposedly for medical research. Over congressional opposition, Reagan sold Iraq twin-engine Bell "Huey" helicopters, which appear to have been used in his chemical attacks on the Kurds.
The Bush administration's current outrage at Saddam's crimes is bogus. If people like Rumsfeld, Cheney, Powell, and Richard Armitage (all of whom held prominent government positions in the '80s) really cared about the Iraqi people, they wouldn't have helped Saddam brutalize them in the '80s. And, since the US doesn't care about the Iraqi people, our real motivation for war must lay elsewhere--either in a
thirst for world domination, or oil, or both."

i think it is quite upsetting to see people tell others who excercise their american right to assemble and disagree with policies of the government, tell others to go to another country. That in itself is the most anti-american rhetoric that i come across almost daily. And as of yet, THERE IS NO WAR WITH IRAQ because CONGRESS HAS NOT DECLARED WAR. Bush is violating our CONSTITUION. he has declared war without using any checks and balances and is grossly abusing his power of the executive branch. And if one needs to "serve" their country to understand war, Bush of all people HAS NO RIGHT to send young kids who joined the military to try and get ahead. He's never had to hold on to a promise that if he lives through a war he can go to college. Daddy paid for that. I believe the term for someone going to war and never serving is called "chicken hawk". And Bush is the biggest chicken of them all.

How is protesting a war "neo-nazi"? If you want to bring up Nazis then here is an example: Adolf Hitler used America's extermination and internment of Native Americans as an example for his concentration camps. He was often quoted as greatly admiring America for their efficient extermination of American Indians by starvation and uneven combat. Now you want to call people who feel war is not the answer as being nazis? because we dont want to annihalate a country that is 55% women and children(UNEVEN COMBAT AND SANCTIONS THAT ARE STARVING IRAQIS)? Patriotism doesnt mean having to support a war. Patriotism and serving ones country is when a person actually acts on the very rights that this country was founded on and not sitting idly by and watching the US destroy itself.

Yes, yes, you finally figured it out.

It is all about oil, killing the innocents, and global domination.

Damn. You should become a detective.

>"If this were a genuine anti-war demonstration, why, along with demands on the British and Americans, would there be no demands of the other party to the conflict--Iraq?"

This question has been up long enough to be answered if they had one. They haven't. I will for them.

Many of those demostrating are simply anti-Bush. You can tell by the signs they carry and what they say. They're still POed about the 2000 election results and because of that are not ever going to endorse anything Bush ever does. Bush could cut the military down to nill and encrease all entitlement programs 20 fold and they still would protest Bush. So their protest is out of anger.

There is another greatly smaller in number protester. They post here. They are anti-capitalists. Anything that is done worldwide to bring down capitalism is OK with them. If that means crawling in bed with people like Saddam, Arafat, or North Korea, so be it. If it helps perpetuate the fall of capitalism, it's a good thing. They figure they bring down capitalism first and evil dictators they can deal with later. Pipe dream, but nevertheless their reasoning.

Yes, indeed many are anti-Bush, just look at their argument, that Bush ''illegally'' took over office....uh oh, someones a bit sour... If you don't like the way we democratically elect our presidents, i suggest heading over to Iraq where you have no freedoms at all. But then again, within a matter of months, Iraq will be free, then you dirty Bush haters can head off to North Korea, by the way, let me mention that we have a North Korean crisis because of Clinton, 6 billion dollars, nuclear power plants, technology to build light-water reactors. Thanks democrats!

Another interesting thing is the way absolutley nobody ever critized Hussein for not giving up his weapons, to stop brutalizing his people, the list is endless. Bush is the so called EVIL one.

But what do you expect, they get this stuff from the Nation, CNN, Al-Jazeera. Now, theyll proceed to spam my ass with news articles from al-jazeera and give me statistics and facts proving that america is evil, and that Hussein should remain in power because he is a upstanding guy who would never use his weapons for evil, like when he went into Kuwait, gassed his own people, blah blah blah, endless atrocities.......

Cranckey this morning?
Can't find the binkey?

"Another interesting thing is the way absolutley nobody ever critized Hussein for not giving up his weapons, to stop brutalizing his people, the list is endless. Bush is the so called EVIL one. "

Its interesting how the US never protested his use of the weapons ofn the kurds in 1988 when he was there best friend. now that hes no longer on their side... it becomes a huge deal.

Hypocrites

their*
not there

Great article Ffutal. The pictures and comments from the bloggers are a laugh and then some. Keep it going.

SADDAM Hussein's senior bodyguard has fled with details of Iraq's secret
arsenal. His revelations have supported US President George W. Bush's claim
there is enough evidence from UN inspectors to justify going to war. Abu
Hamdi Mahmoud has provided Israeli intelligence with a list of sites that
the inspectors have not visited. They include:

AN underground chemical weapons facility at the southern end of the Jadray
Peninsula in Baghdad;
A SCUD assembly area near Ramadi. The missiles come from North Korea;
TWO underground bunkers in Iraq's Western Desert. These contain biological
weapons.

William Tierney, a former UN weapons inspector who has continued to gather
information on Saddam's arsenal, said Mahmoud's information is "the smoking
gun". "Once the inspectors go to where Mahmoud has pointed them, then it's
all over for Saddam," Tierney said.

Tierney, who has high-level contacts in Washington that go to the White
House, said the information we publish today on Mahmoud's revelations
"checks out, absolutely checks out". Mahmoud was a member of the elite unit
that protects Saddam. It is called the Murasiq Qun - the "Inner Circle".
He was known as "The Gatekeeper". Mahmoud is a muscular Saddam lookalike
often photographed standing behind Saddam when he is seated, or to his left
when on the move.

Last week, Mahmoud was being debriefed at a high-security base in Israel's
Negev Desert. Ariel Sharon, the country's hard-line prime minister, has
only allowed
snippets of Mahmoud's sensational claims to be shared with the CIA and MI6.
"Sharon intends to shatter the growing anti-war movement," a source close to
Mr Sharon said. "He plans to call all those European leaders who are
wavering to let them know how Saddam has continued to fool Hans Blix and his
weapons inspectors."

Mahmoud's revelations include locations of five bunkers buried beneath
man-made sand dunes. Stockpiled in the bunkers are warheads identical to
the empty shell cases found two weeks ago by the UN inspectors. Mahmoud
said those shells were on their way to be refilled and stored in the
bunkers.

A transcript from his debriefing includes:

"Saddam's weapons of mass destruction are also concealed in a tunnel complex
deep beneath the sewers of Baghdad and in an underground complex in Ouja, to
the north of Tikrit.
"The complex was built five years ago with help from Chinese engineers.
"The entrance to the site is through a house in Tikrit. It is the home of
one of Saddam's cousins and is more than half a mile from where the weapons
are stored."
In another excerpt from his debriefing, Mahmoud boasts:
I was inside the innermost circle where Saddam eats and sleeps.

I was among the handful of bodyguards closest to him. Very few people are
allowed close to Saddam.

Many of the TV images you see of him were taken years ago.

Most people now only speak to him over the phone. He usually calls them. If
they have to call him back with information he wants, it is passed through
his sons (Uday and Qusay) or (Deputy Prime Minister) Tariq Aziz.

All those close to him have codes, which they use to access the outer
circle. But even they can only come so close to Saddam before there is a
cut-off point - the Inner Circle. Even Tariq Aziz is checked to see if he is
carrying weapons.

Saddam knows fortunes are being offered to have him assassinated.

Saddam's paranoia increased after Uday, his eldest son, narrowly escaped
assassination when gunmen riddled his car with bullets in 1996. Uday was
partially paralysed and uses a wheelchair.

To avoid falling victim to even his own bodyguards, Saddam is a walking
arsenal. He has concealed guns all over his body," Mahmoud said.

He also has panic buttons to press if he even suspects somebody is about to
attack him.

Israeli intelligence sources have hinted that the deal with Mahmoud included
smuggling his family out of Iraq. Mossad agents have done this before.

At the start of Saddam's reign of terror, they persuaded an Iraqi pilot to
fly his Russian fighter to Israel - after spiriting out his wife and
children.

Wow! That Saddam is such a bad, mean man! I did not know that! I am astounded that Rummy was shaking hands with him just a few years ago! I can't believe that those noble Republicans -- Bush/Reagan, et al. -- spent ten years arming him, trading with him, covering up his atrocities, and never noticed he was a bad, mean man! Fantastically, they also didn't notice the that their buddies in Guatemala, El Salvador, Indonesia, the Phillipines, and other places, were also slaughtering their own people! The Republicans said their were no human rights abuses going on! But there were! Amazing!

And I still don't understand how the hell GW's oil got under Saddam's land!

It's all just sooo confusing . . . .

Even allowing every detail of your post to be true - and I did find one misstatement of fact "Stockpiled in the bunkers are warheads identical to
the empty shell cases found two weeks ago by the UN inspectors. Mahmoud
said those shells were on their way to be refilled and stored in the
bunkers." After laboratory analysis they were found to have no traceable amounts of banned agents that could not be attributed to mishandling of the samples.

As well I trust Sharon even less than I trust Bush. Never forget that the mottor of the Mossad is:

"By Way of Deception Thou Shalt do War".

This is the same Mossad that planted Radio Repeaters in Libya by which to fool U.S. SigInt into telling the President that Qaddafi was staging terrorist activity - which resulted in an Air Raid in which a little girl was killed. The Radio Deception by the Mossad was a criminal act.

Israel has had ongoing efforts to diffuse Saddam as he is perceived as the most credible threat to Israeli domination of the Middle East's Geopolitical landscape. Personally my native loyalties lie with Jews but I do not support the crimes of the POLITICAL Zionist movement. (Many of whom are unrepentant Bolsheviki and Atheists.)

And even if all is true it is an argument for taking out those facilities. Not a full scale invasion costing Trillions in money and more importantly hundred's of thousands of lives.

We have the technology to verify the existence of such facilities through Ground Penetrating Radar and Tomographic Instruments such as the HAARP facility up in Alaska. Verify first - attack second. As well Saddam has now allowed U2 overflights and equiped with the right sensory equipment they are perfectly capable of verifying such claims. I would also point out that so far every "smoking gun" trumpeted by the Chicken Hawks has been shown to be a cap gun i.e., outright lies. They have no credibility with me without independently verifiable confirmation.

They have LIED before and I would expect them to lie again.

Nice try but you have still not made an air tight case.

We never cared about the Kurds, huh, huh? You idiot, yes we did, maybe your president didn't, but we just couldn't take him out then because you anti-american protesters would be everywhere on the streets protesting any war and then compare it with Vietnam, so there! (Kinda like how you're doing now)

Liar, you don't care about the people, we (righteous, god fearing Republicans) do.

You got some kind of air pockets
in your brain?
Mother drink while you were in her tummy?
You sound like a acne ravaged teen too
stupid or ugly to get laid.
You add NOTHING to the dialogue except
your myopic and ignorant rant.
Go to the library ( that's where a lot
of books are) and read..

''Israel has had ongoing efforts to diffuse Saddam as he is perceived as the most credible threat to Israeli domination of the Middle East's Geopolitical landscape.''

Uh oh, we have another anti-semitic nazi here. Isreali domination huh? What are you, a fucking raghead? Isreal supports a separate state of Palestine as long as they're not getting suicide bombed up the ass. Unfortunately you dirty liars keep on killing Isrealis, so what are they supposed to do? Lie down dead for you guys? Will that make you happy? When you annililate the Jewish race? As well as America, we do not support the Isrealis versus the Arab world, we support the state of Isreal to survive.

''And even if all is true it is an argument for taking out those facilities. Not a full scale invasion costing Trillions in money and more importantly hundred's of thousands of lives.''

Take some time to listen to what top government officials are saying: Mobile weapons factories, the inability to attack targets in real-time with just using missles, etc.

Trillions of dollars? Hahahahaa, we're gonna use their oil to pay off any expenses of war, then we give back the remaining trillions upon trillions of gallons of oil reserves to where they belong, the Iraqi people. Hundreds of thousands of lives? Ya right, maybe if we did it Clinton style and let the Iraqis nuke us to death, maybe hundred of thousands of American lives. But NO, you're wrong, this war will be quick, loss of life minimal, fucking Hussein propagandist.

''As well Saddam has now allowed U2 overflights and equiped with the right sensory equipment they are perfectly capable of verifying such claims.''

Thats right, only now has allowed U2 flights. WTF, it takes threat of force for this man to cooperate? Well, I hate to see what he will do when we have to pull out if you libs get your way.

''I would also point out that so far every "smoking gun" trumpeted by the Chicken Hawks has been shown to be a cap gun i.e., outright lies. They have no credibility with me without independently verifiable confirmation.''

What are you, a secret agent? You think his new rockets can't hit our allies. Thats one smoking gun. Also, empty chemical warheads, hmm, i think he'll just put them up in a museum, why would he use chemical warheads with no chemicals, huh, idiot? Outright lies, kinda like Iraqi outright lies that they have no weapons left.

It is you who has lied. When we go into Iraq to liberate them we're gonna find mass graves, torture stories, mass weapons, then guess what?

SHIT in your face. I'll fucking come back here and laugh in your face (as well as take a dump on it as well, shitmonger)

Diogenes, you said:

"We have the technology to verify the existence of such facilities through Ground Penetrating Radar and Tomographic Instruments such as the HAARP facility up in Alaska. Verify first - attack second. "

Don't you think GWB would want to confirm that he has such facilities before engaging in a full scale invasion?

I don't think we'd invade unless those facts are confirmed.

Releasing the information to the public is a different story.

Remember that we used to be able to listen in on bin Laden's private conversations via Satellite Phone. That is, we could until the news media reported that we had intercepted multiple satellite phone conversations involving bin Laden.

After that he stopped using his Satellite phone.

Best not to reveal too much if you're the CIA

Yeah, i havent gotten laid, because I dont believe in sex until marriage, and I am a teenager, but you on the otherhand prolly suck your dads cock, so youre angry that you're no longer a virgin. But then again you dirty liberals think oral sex isnt sex, so you can keep thinking youre a virgin.

I, unfortunately, am more informed then you. I suggest you give examples when I make statements on how you think I'm wrong and INSTEAD offer proof as opposed to saying Im a stupid teenager. Otherwise, that just proves you got your ass beat in this debate.

Doesn't use his cell phone?
Not using his credit cards either?
This means WAR.

But while I'm here.
You ARE messed up.
STOP BEATING OFF OVER THE KEYBOARD.
This might help.

Too much sheep/dog porn for you? Maybe you should stop jacking off to dog porn, bestialty guy. Once again, thanks for proving my point. Nothing but insults against me. Prove that I'm wrong, other than using your links from al-jazeera or your horribly pathetic conspiracy theories.

Hmm, boring, I think Im quiting this conversing with idiots for good until a few weeks until when we finally liberate Iraq, with few casualities and mass celebrations in Iraq. Then I'll come back and shit on your face. You'll enjoy it, don't worry. For real, I'll be back in a few weeks when we win.

talk to me when you are a man.
Pretty accurate aren't I?
I don't dialogue with fools
with nothing to say.
I'd just rather read you go into
a fit.
Reading your posts are weary.
Excuse me, I must thoroughly bluke
my teenaged mistress.

True, my ranting is starting to piss off myself. Anyways, instead of talking to you when i become a man, I'll be back when we win in a few weeks. Then the real pooping on faces will begin. Bye bye!

how dumb are you? you talk as if you think us anti-war ppl think Saddam actually has a chance against US military might.

u fuckin idiot. what the fuck man? go do something useful like take a bath or clean ur ass after u shit. and start washing your hands after you use the bathroom.

how come americans dont wash their hands after goin to the bathroom? its a disgusting habit.
yack!

You said it, brother! It burns my ass too, that the views that seem to get the most coverage come from uneducated mouth-peices, with nothing better to do than slam the government of this country!
To all the so-called "peace lovers": 1) do your homework before running off at the mouth about something you clearly don't comprehend. 2) think before you speak. 3) run over to the nearest recruiting center and volunteer to SERVE YOUR COUNTRY, rather than leech off of it!!!

Stand up for america as a real patroit.
Impeach Bush for treason and murder.

Stomp twerps like sheepdog as soon as they open their little mouths!

Down with America. Join me and my comrades in overthrowing capitalism and replacing it with a more compassionate Communist society.

Advocating the overthrow of the government is a crime. Please report to your local police station for detention prior to your trial.

Thank you.

New Yorkers are loud but cowardly in their extreme racism. Fight them with sweet lilting poetry and small cheap handguns and they run like the little girls they so like to molest in their darkened rat infested streets. New Yorkers are well known in their hatred of Wilma Flintsone because they somehow view her responsible for the assasination of Mr. Slaterock's brother, Malcom X (AKA Rubble-X)

If you like communism so much, move to Southern Angola you racist homophobe!

You are all quite moronic to fall for whomever
used my nick for the communist post.
I'm so popular.

Bush's whole pro-war argument is based on the assumption that saddam is a madman and will act irrationally in order control the region. sorry y'all, but that just doesn't cut it.