Europe and America must stand united

THE real bond between the United States and Europe is the values we share: democracy, individual freedom, human rights and the Rule of Law. These values crossed the Atlantic with those who sailed from Europe to help create the USA. Today they are under greater threat than ever.

The attacks of 11 September showed just how far terrorists — the enemies of our common values — are prepared to go to destroy them. Those outrages were an attack on all of us. In standing firm in defence of these principles, the governments and people of the United States and Europe have amply demonstrated the strength of their convictions. Today more than ever, the transatlantic bond is a guarantee of our freedom.

We in Europe have a relationship with the United States which has stood the test of time. Thanks in large part to American bravery, generosity and far-sightedness, Europe was set free from the two forms of tyranny that devastated our continent in the 20th century: Nazism and Communism. Thanks, too, to the continued cooperation between Europe and the United States we have managed to guarantee peace and freedom on our continent. The transatlantic relationship must not become a casualty of the current Iraqi regime’s persistent attempts to threaten world security.

In today’s world, more than ever before, it is vital that we preserve that unity and cohesion. We know that success in the day-to-day battle against terrorism and the proliferation of weapons of mass destruction demands unwavering determination and firm international cohesion on the part of all countries for whom freedom is precious.

The Iraqi regime and its weapons of mass destruction represent a clear threat to world security. This danger has been explicitly recognised by the United Nations. All of us are bound by Security Council Resolution 1441, which was adopted unanimously. We Europeans have since reiterated our backing for Resolution 1441, our wish to pursue the UN route and our support for the Security Council, at the Prague Nato Summit and the Copenhagen European Council.

In doing so, we sent a clear, firm and unequivocal message that we would rid the world of the danger posed by Saddam Hussein’s weapons of mass destruction. We must remain united in insisting that his regime is disarmed. The solidarity, cohesion and determination of the international community are our best hope of achieving this peacefully. Our strength lies in unity.

The combination of weapons of mass destruction and terrorism is a threat of incalculable consequences. It is one at which all of us should feel concerned. Resolution 1441 is Saddam Hussein’s last chance to disarm using peaceful means. The opportunity to avoid greater confrontation rests with him. Sadly this week the UN weapons inspectors have confirmed that his long-established pattern of deception, denial and non-compliance with UN Security Council resolutions is continuing.

Europe has no quarrel with the Iraqi people. Indeed, they are the first victims of Iraq’s current brutal regime. Our goal is to safeguard world peace and security by ensuring that this regime gives up its weapons of mass destruction. Our governments have a common responsibility to face this threat. Failure to do so would be nothing less than negligent to our own citizens and to the wider world.

The United Nations Charter charges the Security Council with the task of preserving international peace and security. To do so, the Security Council must maintain its credibility by ensuring full compliance with its resolutions. We cannot allow a dictator to systematically violate those Resolutions. If they are not complied with, the Security Council will lose its credibility and world peace will suffer as a result.

We are confident that the Security Council will face up to its responsibilities.

José María Aznar, Spain
José Manuel Durão Barroso, Portugal
Silvio Berlusconi, Italy
Tony Blair, United Kingdom
Václav Havel, Czech Republic
Medgyessy Péter, Hungary
Leszek Miller, Poland
Anders Fogh Rasmussen, Denmark

...so the administration can dig up eight puppydogs to bark on command...I think they may have had trouble finding any more than that....is this letter from eight eunuchs supposed to counter the millions of Europeans against the war?

http://www.factmonster.com/ipka/A0004379.html

Uh, here's like the populations of the countries that are supporting the United States (roughly):

Spain: 40 Million
Portugal: 10 Million
Hungary: 10 Million
Czech Republic: 10 Million
United Kingdom: 60 Million
Italy: 58 Million
Denmark: 5.5 Million
Poland: 38.5 Million

Total: Roughly 232 Million.

And here's the populations of the countries of Germany and France (again roughly):

Germany: 84 Million
France: 60 Million

Total: Roughly 144 Million.

So, President Bush has about a hundred million more Europeans in his camp than the French and Germans have.

And remember, these are all Western Democracies. The governments of which are sensitive and responsive to their populations. If the French have come out against the US position on Iraq, it can be reliably assumed that the average Frenchman is also opposed. Similarly, if the Danes have come out in favor, one must also assume the average Dane is in favor as well. I realize not all, but a majority surely are.

So what was your point anyway?

What amazes me is that France has not surrendered Paris to the Iraqi Republican Guard.

That is some fucked up logic my friend. I guarantee you, my naive little bootlicker, that the average people in ALL the countries you mention DO NOT SUPPORT THE US. I know you might wish it to be true, that because Berlusconi is a neo-facist, that all Italians, or the majority of them, are neo-facist. Hell that don't even hold true in THIS country, asswipe! The Shrub was elected by about 15% of the eligible voters. Your logic is as fucked as your politics.

You can insist all you want that the majority is with you but facts are facts. The polls show that the majority of Americans support the President. Because they know what is at stake.


In the land of the blind the one eyed man may be king but in the land of the sighted he just lacks depth perception.

What facts? You didn't present any...you made a huge stupid assumption on the opinions of millions of people based on the paid for opinions of eight...this monumental stretch in logic is the best you can do to rationalize your indefensible position...
...your flacid posts eminate not from the land of the land of the sighted, but the land of the delusional. Just stick your head back up your ass where it belongs and go back to sleep.

How true. Opinion polls show underwhelming support
for war in Europe. see:
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/1568590_comment.php#1568601

The French and German governments say they are opposed to war with Iraq. German firms trade technology to the Iraqis (in fact a couple of Germans were convicted today of helping the Iraqis build a super gun) and the French have lucrative oil contracts with the Hussein regime (no appeasement for oil!).

Sheepdog and KPC consider the behavior of these governments as principled and a demonstration of the European sophistication that we hear so much of. They don't see any conflicts of interest in the 'brave' stand that the leaders of these countries have taken.

Now eight other countries, whose governments represent tens of millions of people more than the French and Germans, have come out in support of the United States and opposed to the position of the French and Germans. Do KPC and Sheepdog respect the sophistication of these Europeans? What do you think?

Now Ireland's Taoiseach, Bertie Ahern, is pissed off. Why? Because the eight who wrote the letter didn't ask him if he wanted to sign on as well. Oh well, I guess old Bertie is just another bought off stooge too.

Here we smell the Left in full festering reek. Anyone who agrees with their point of view is a hero, no matter how compromised. Anyone who opposes them is a villain or uninformed.
They pay lip service to Democracy and point to the numbers present at their protests as evidence that theirs is a popular point of view, yet the marchers hold Democracy in contempt and line up to defend despots and even some home-grown murderous thugs. And they ignore the fact that the vast majority of the American people have, through their representatives in Congress voted several times since 1998 for the liberation of Iraq.
The appeasement mongers are the most base of creatures. If you really believe in the prevention of this war, then please do go to Iraq as human shields.

But also renounce your American citizenship and take Iraqi citizenship. If you are convinced that this country is wicked, you certainly wouldn't want to stay. And if you are willing to lay your lives down to protect Saddam Hussein, well I guess he'd be touched to have you as his subjects.
When you are an Iraqi citizen you'll finally have some real problems to bitch about.
Of course you won't legally be allowed to bitch.
Oh well, nothings perfect.

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

Is that it??? Is THAT your response??? Fuckin' eunuch..."Yeah, why don't you move to IRAQ!!" What a fuckin' livin, mouth breathin' anachronism you are! Why don't you try "Bounces offa me and sticks to you...", or how about "So's your ol' man!"

I don't know what that nonsensical rant was, but let's skip that idiocy and get back to the facts: It was eight PEOPLE, not eight COUNTRIES asswipe...THE MAJORITY OF EUROPE IS AGAINST BUSH'S IRAQI POLICIES. That's a simple one, SimpleTon! You can spin your little self-righteous lies all you want, it don't change the facts.

Now...make yourself useful, go fetch me my slippers like a good little broke dick doggie....

Once again KPC your mouth gets in front of your limited intellect. Just like countless times before, most recently when you said the rich receive benefits the poor do not.

Now you claim that the majority of Europeans oppose American polices.

Prove it.

I guess I'll have to wait again, and we'll all have to wade through your endless baiting and profanity, but in the end you'll slink off, defeated, as always.

Ta ta.

Well, I just happen to have here in my office every member of the European community...excuse me while I ask them....

..."Pardon me, do you guys support Bush's Iraq Policy? No? OK, Thanks"


They said no.

Now THAT is proof!

Still waiting, Mr. Mom.

OK, all the members of the European union have now just left my office (it was a bit crowded, I had to move the marble conference table, and close the wet bar).

Now, another EIGHT guys came in, they are José María Aznar, José Manuel Durão Barroso, Silvio Berlusconi, Tony Blair, Václav Havel, Medgyessy Péter, Leszek Miller, and Anders Fogh Rasmussen. Let me ask them...

"Excuse me, gentlemen, do you support Bush's Iraq policies? Yes? OK, thanks"

They said yes. And everybody knows that these eight people of unquestionable motives and reputations speak for ALL of their countries population? What? They don't? Polls consistantly show that the majority IN THESE EIGHT COUNTRIES do not support Bush???

I was looking for world support, I guess all I got was the opinions of eight assholes...

SimpleTon (AKA Pvt. Fido): "...but in the end you'll slink off, defeated, as always. "

For those wondering, this is Fido in one of his ball licking stupors of self gratification...

I have a bias and that is I am opposed to this war. With that said, you may not want to hear this but I also agree that stating the populations of each country and assuming that they all support the war in Iraq has no foundation in logic.
By the way, I am Italian, and no I am not a mafioso, nor am I a neo-facist. I am sick that Berlusconi is the leader of my country. He is no better than many men in power and that includes Sharon, Bush, and Hussein. What really makes it pathetic is that they have some agenda (I can only hope that there is some twisted reason for this madness) BUT, here in this forum, what is our excuse? Why would we want to intentionally rationalize and believe their hypocrisy.
How can raining bombs on Iraq hope to quell terrorism. If anything, it will only help to spread ignorance. How can embracing an atmosphere of hate and lies be more acceptable than dignified discussion and calm?
Of course, all of this can be translated to mean that I am a Saddam-lover or Iraqi-lover (much like the now loathed expression nigger-lover), but I guess the best any of us can do is hold on to what we believe is truth. My only hope is that these beliefs have some foundation in justice not arbitrary laws, peace not violence and dignity not pride.

Hey KPC, why don't you stop running your sewer and link us to these polls which would prove your point? You could actually score a point in this argument if you find one. But you won't because you are either lazy or stupid (I suspect both). Or is it because your polls don't exist? Hmmm.

The whole point, my Italian friend, of bringing up the populations of various European nations is to illustrate that the majority of Europeans are not French nor German. The leaders of these other European countries, answerable to their respective electorates, have chosen to publically declare their support for the position of the United States. Either they are all political suicides or they know that their populations also in the majority support the United States. Thus, the majority of Europeans support the United States.

Did you follow that KPC? Or should I draw you a picture? Perhaps your daughter could explain it to you.

to whom it may concern.
Didn't I give you opinion polls way up there?
Oh well.
http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/1568590_comment.php#1568601
Read it.

A funny thing happened to me at Camp Bondsteel (Bosnia):

A French army officer walked up to me in the PX, and told me he thought we (Americans) were a bunch of cowboys and were going to provoke a war. He said if such a thing happens, we wouldn't be able to count on the support of France.

I told him that it didn't surprise me. Since we had come to France's rescue in World War I, World War II, Vietnam, and the Cold War, their ingratitude and jealousy was due to surface at some point in the near future anyway. That is why France is a third-rate military power with a socialist economy and a bunch of faggots for soldiers.

I additionally told him that America, being a nation of deeds and action, not words, would do whatever it had to do, and France's support was only for show anyway. Just like in ALL NATO exercises, the US would shoulder 85% of the burden, as evidenced by the fact that the French officer was shopping in the American PX, and not the other way around.

He began to get belligerent at that point, and I told him if he would like to, I would meet him outside in front of the Burger King and beat his ass in front of the entire Multinational Brigade East, thus demonstrating that even the smallest American had more fight in him than the average Frenchman.

He called me a barbarian cowboy and walked away in a huff.

With friends like these, who needs enemies?

Mary Beth Johnson Lt.Col, USMC

Don't forget about B. Franklin's diplomacy with France and
the allegiance formed to take on King George.
Be certain to mention all history between France and the US
when painting your portrait.

Don't forget about B. Franklin's diplomacy with France and
the allegiance formed to take on King George. afterward, we
splintered with france., bitterly, giving little reparation for their assistance. Oh goodness, history is a funny weapon to wield when we position ourselves for the moral argument.

Certainly, bravado will need to be built up to justify the cause.
Just look at those "damn french" excuse-- is alienating in itself.



"we are all american's"

typo' problems-- oops.

I meant to say, the "damn french" excuse alienates those willing to use the argument. This is not bright, but brash.

whoops.

To Mary Beth Johnson Lt.Col, USMC:

Squeak! I am ready to meet you outside in front of the Burger King and beat your ass in front of the entire Multinational Brigade East, thus demonstrating that even a little mousy has more fight than a USMC Lt. Col .... etc.

what a joke you are.

-a little mousy

Why call yourself mousy? Put up a photo. Show us what you've got. We might go for you.

Cheep cheep! Hey Bashful Asshole - ... Why call yourself B.A.? Put up your name address and photo. Show us what you've got. We might go for you.

uh-duuhh

Absolutely, the United States and Europe should remain united against this war. Most European countries as well as the vast majority (80%) of polled Europeans are AGAINST this war.

hello...HELLO...is this thing on??/ HELLO, we're talking about PEOPLE as in the POPULATION, do you get it? 'Course you do, any idiot can understand that!

That's the problem ANYONE CAN SEE FOR THEMSELVES. It is obvious to anyone who wants to see that the majority of Europeans are against the war. So what's a Bushite to do???? Well, we can MANUFACTURE support. Our loyal doggie Tony can draft a letter that a few others from his pack can sign and we can waive it around and claim that we have support where there is none...all we need it more loyal Bushite doggies to bark ligitimacy at the laughable...


....Now...as One BushBlower and Pvt. Fido...BARK!

The governments of the West are Represenative Democracies, not organizations subject to mob rule. If mob rule were followed as you suggest, this country would never have fought in any war, including the Civil War. The vast majority of Englishmen were against conflict with Germany right up to 1939 despite the prescient warnings of Winston Churchill. So much for the wisdom of the common man.

And do you really want to have an argument that says we should always do what the majority say? If that's your rule, KPC, we might as well get the tanks warmed up, because a majority of American citizens are in favor of the President's policies towards Iraq. Maybe we should take votes on illegal immigration, abortion, marriage rights of homosexuals, 'affirmative' action, etc. while we're at it. That'll straighten out a lot of loose ends around here.

OK, we've heard the shrill yappings of the incessant Pvt. Fido tryin' to Rube Goldberg rig some sense where there is none...where's BushBlower's annoying little howl?