Yesterday's march was the greatest and biggest protest I have seen in L.A.since the anti-187 march in
'94. It seemed like a lot more than 15,000 to me. I talked to one woman who said it took an entire
hour (approx. 1:00 to 2:00) for all the marchers to turn the corner at Spring and Temple. It was also
one of the more diverse marches I have seen, in terms of age, gender, race, lifestyle
(mainstream/counterculture) and political beliefs. I didn't watch the news so I don't know how it was
covered, but somebody told me that all the networks were there. And, very important: no provocations
or arrests!!!!! (This means that all those first-time marchers won't be afraid to come out for the next
one. Let's keep 'em all coming back-- demos with only the "usual suspects" are boring.)

Having said that, I do think Shawn is right in proposing that we take the peace movement to the next
level. In the leaflet he was passing out, Shawn was basically proposing that we mobilize for a day of
mass organizing action, not just a march and rally. We would pick a day and have thousands of people
converge at one point, just like a rally. Then we would all split up into hundreds of organizing teams
and fan out across the city, doing whatever is necessary to spread the word about the movement:
leafletting, street theater, one-on-one conversations, whatever. Then everybody would gather in one
place again to celebrate the day's work.

To a certain extent, this is already happening. I have seen more than one announcement on the email list-serves
inviting people to come out for a day of organizing and outreach. These are usually small-scale, local
events. Imagine, then, what could be done if the same effort and resources that go into planning and
staging a huge march and rally were directed toward staging a day of MASS ORGANIZING???? I
think that the coalitions who put on yesterday's event -- NION, ICUJP, ANSWER and the CfWP --
should sit down with local activists and smaller groups and start planning that, as the next logical
step to take.

There are three reasons to have a big demo: morale, publicity and organizing opportunities. It's the
third one that sometimes gets short shrift. In the past (but not yesterday!!!) I have been disappointed
by failure to follow up on a big march. I have sat in planning meetings where no one gave a thought to
what would happen after the march, and so no plans were made to get marchers' names, sign them up
in the movement, circulate clipboards in the crowd, or even leaflet spectators on the sidewalk. And
then, at the first meeting after the march, everybody just sat around patting themselves on the back and
bragging about how great the march was. And then one of the march planners proposed that we take a
month off to "reflect," just as important legislation was coming up. A colossal, short-sighted,
narcissistic waste of effort!

To be fair, that's a worst-case scenario, and it does not apply to every march I have been in.

There would also be obstacles and difficulties to overcome with the "day of mass organizing" model.
For one thing, attendance would be lower than at a simple march/rally, because marching is EASIER
than organizing. Many people are shy. Unlike professional activists, average people are uncomfortable
about approaching people they don't know, and many are scared of rejection or hostility. Therefore,
we should apply some creativity toward making "Organizing 101" as painless as possible for the
first-timer or the average person. The point is to reach out to new people, and keep them coming back.

So how about it, big anti-war coalitions? Shawn is right. Let's take the next step!

I'm chomping at the bit to do this. To stop this war and build a long lasting progressive movement, we need to help people build organizations and networks of resistance. We don't need revolutions as much as we need revolutionaries, and history is made by people who take action.

The SGV Neighbors for Peace and Justice had a successful screening of Hidden Wars of Desert Storm. That's action to interrupt the regularly scheduled war propaganda.

If you're in the SGV, come on down to the next peace vigil on Friday at 5:30, corner of Main and Garfield in Alhambra. We're not an impressive looking bunch, but we're making a difference, and maybe even making history.

-- john

i want to help "build organizations and networks of resistance", too.....

i often feel impatient.

just curious.. what do you think of Michael Albert's strategy and the WSF?
--
" The goal of anti-authoritarianism isn’t to be tiny, or small, or even just medium sized. The goal is to have vast and even world encompassing movements, which, however, are participatory, diverse, and self-managing. But creativity, diversity, and participatory self-management won’t happen if we cede the field of institution-building to people who have no interest or confidence in democracy and variety. They will happen, however, if we enter the fray, hold to our values, and work cautiously, carefully, and tirelessly to implement them at every level."

this has been a dream project of mine for a long time. It could even be a 2 day affair- day one would be a convergence space- Trainings on silkscreening, drawing, flyer making, writing, performance, puppetmaking, zine making- all our DIY skills. There would also be photocopie machines, silkscreen equiptment, etc... People would work alone or in groups- then the next day we all go out and distribute to the far corners of the city. At the end of the day theres a big presentation/art show.
Everything would be supported, creativity and communication skills would be valued more. It would be both a wonderful learning, sharing , organizing and communicating experience.

I too have been climbing the walls to get the message out. Saturday was good but I know that in a city of millions we can do better. I am an experienced publicist, journalist and event planner and will give whatever assistance I can to the anti-war pro-a better L.A. cause.

To that last statement,

Our president is on the verge of WW II and trying his hardest to provoke North Korea into droping a Nuke so he can use his own. This will essentially lead to even higher cancer rates in this country in the future not to mention the deaths of millions of people. So even if you're sitting on your couch at the compound in the desert this affects you. So at the very least you should be appreciative of our concern for your future even if you don't care.

As far as the organizing idea, it's amazing. We did it with mild success in Philly before the convention and I think it was a huge success in Quebec City. Even if it doesn't bring more people to the protests, it builds support so the cops can't make everyone think we're a bunch of terrorists.

dude above is not talking on topic and should be ignored. Lets build ideas, not squabble with someone who actually didn't read the post. Spin ideas not arguments with assinine fools.

And, to what branch of the Dis-information Department do yo work for? It is a proven fact that "dickless" wonders can not pick up girls. :)

Barb - You should post your photo with measurements, and a note as to what time and which street corner you'll be protesting on. If the photo reveals a true babe, then more protesters will show up for the event. You'll be helping to increase the turnout.

Here is the typical protest overview:

1/ The protesters themselves get all steamed up. They're definitely affected. They think they're doing something important (yawn). They mainly scream at empty buildings.

2/ Don't forget the opportunity to pick up girls. Too bad there aren't more good looking female protesters.

3/ The police are irritated.

4/ City clean up crews have a bit more work.

That's it -- that's the long of it, that's the short of it, that's all there is.

The message isn't sent. No one gets any message except the protesters themselves.

The good citizens might catch a mention of it on the nightly news. If so, the typical reaction will be, "Hey Martha, come and look at the dopey protesters on TV!"

It's a case of 'message sent,' and 'message insignificant and, therefore, not noticed. These protest marches are nothing more than feel-good 'mutual masterbation' by the protesters. They stand around telling each other, "We're making a difference!" Yea, right ;-)

It would be a mistake to ignore what Bush Admirer has to say. Much of what he says is true, whether you like it or not, and there are lessons to be learned from what he has said. To that end, I think his comments are on topic.

Let's face it. Having a protest march in downtown L.A. (at the Civic Center no less) on a Saturday, IS NOT reaching the masses. Sure, it makes for a nice photo op with the big buildings in the background, but by choosing such a location you are allowing yourself to be marginalized. When the corporate media outlets grossly underestimate your turnout there is no one to dispute it because NO ONE saw you! If you want to reach middle America with your message, you've got to take your message to middle America.

It's nice that KPFK sponsored and promoted this event and it's good to see Pacifica come back to life, but KPFK is not a mainstream outlet (duh), and does not reach the majority of average citizens who, like myself, are opposed to this administrations policies, in particular, the impending war with Iraq.

I first found out about this march on Saturday morning while my family and I were riding the Red Line to the auto show at the convention center. Had this event been staged near the convention center there would have been a built-in crowd of tens of thousands along with a built in news prescence (KFWB had a complete studio on site and were broadcasting live from the event).

This is a message that needs to be heard beyond the bounds of the traditional leftist media. It needs to be taken to shopping malls and the Ventura Boulevards of Southern California.

I've gone on long enough, but I would like to help. I write and produce radio commercials for a living. If there is some use in one of the organizations for these talents I am willing to lend a hand. Thank you all for fighting the good fight, but we need to "fight smarter, not harder"

Rob

I just surfed to your site for the first time today from Znet and found those spectacular photos from J11. I am heartened to see so many out on the streets against this imperialist war by Bush, Cheney et al. Large demo in Shannon airport (West Ireland) J18 where US planes ferrying thousands to Gulf. Keep it up Stateside, we can beat this thing...increase the peace.

the whole subject of this post starts WITH the presence that we need something other then a large scale protest at a centralized location. That we actually do need to talk to people. The original post had good, creative ideas to go beyond the limits of a protest.
This is about figuring out new ideas. I and others have posted some, lets hear more.

I think that the march last Saturday was a taste of what we here in L.A. are capable of. Seeing all the beautiful diversity of people coming out to support a common cause was wonderful. Although I see that there is a need for follow-up action after a march it is important to keep in mind that not everyone is ready to dive into this form of action.
Fear is a major element that we have to contend with. Many people are afraid to put themselves in a potentially compromising situation. The threat of arrest , deportation, violence or loss of employment is always there and not everyone has convictions that are strong enough to provide the impulse to put themselves out there like that. One thing that I remember noting as we marched down Broadway on Saturday was the number of Latinos looking at the procession with an expression of bewilderment and suprise on their faces (perhaps fear?). We have a large number of undocumented people who may be afraid to act and are unaware of the issues at hand. And this may be a reason why perhaps it is the working class that isn't representing itself in a proprotionate amount.
Oftentimes in these large movements such as this one, I have found that people of color often feel displaced. They may not feel welcome in the environment of the movement, for they may not agree with all the items on the agenda or their needs are not being included or addressed. If we want to augment the number of individuals in our movement, then it is important to foster an esprit de corps and fraternite in the movement. We can, like others have already said start small and then increase our movement gradually.
A great way to do this is by targeting young people. I saw so many high school kids out there being passionate about something and embracing something that they believed in; that was very powerful. Taking time out and dedicating time to educate our young people on these issues will not only empower them to make better decisions but take pride of their community and create leaders that can carry this movement forward.

Hey Rob-
Thanks for your remarks! I live in theValley and want to bring the dissent of the City to the suburbs- Ventura Blvd. in particular- maybe Laurel Canyon or Van Nuys too. I want to see the immigrant, artist and student communities come out in full force for all the soccer moms to see. After all its going to be little Kevin or Brittany who falls ill from radiation poisoning or dies from shrapnal wounds when WWIII breaks out.
Anyone interested in this kind of action can e-mail me at the address above.

The photos of your march in LA last week are just great. It's not surprising that folks in LA know how to produce media about themselves. Continue to use those skills!

You may not have noticed, but national news (CBS) did a (brief) story on the J11 march. That is news coverage. We've had a number of comparably sized events in SF that never got that type of coverage.

The truth is, however, that we're not fighting to get news coverage. We want to stop a war. And we want to change the social conditions that create war abroad and injustice at home. That will take more than marching.

Take the good feelings that come from such marches and turn them into additional actions. Don't dwell too much on whether a particular course of action is the best. Just act!

Hope to see many of you in the streets of SF this weekend. Welcome to the party, LA!

From the Bay

I can see why you're a Bush Admirer, Like him, you are an ignorant simpleton, and while we gather, and become stronger, you support corruption that is glaring in our face. Sorry to say this but, your Right Wing Jig may be up. We're done giving our money to Enron so people like you can be rich. 15,000 strong in LA, 1 million strong in DC this weekend, 50,000 strong in SF and growing. You'll soon realize that minorities and activists just happen to outnumber simpletons.

I have a theory about Bush Admirer.

BA posts to most of the various Indymedia sites, usually knows a lot about protests, but distorts it to come from the angle of right-wing propeganda. I wander if BA isn't a Bush Admirer after all, but a person (or group of people) who has taken it upon their self(s) to play "devil's advocate" to the movement. I have seen BA posts result in both:

a) anger, general BA-hating

and
b) more coherent, beter articulated arguments.

Whether or not BA is on "our side," I think that we should think about the potential possitive side of having people like this on our sites.

I'm neither an ignorant simpleton or pro-corruption. I am delighted that we no longer have a scandal of the week in the White House though. What is it now, two years, since we had a scandal plagued administration in Washington? What a huge upgrade in leadership we've been enjoying.

>>> Sorry to say this but, your Right Wing Jig may be up. We're done giving our money to Enron so people like you can be rich.

Excuse me! You actually pay taxes Mickey? Keep in mind that the upper income folks are the ones paying the bills (pulling the wagon as I see it). You should be demonstrating in Beverly Hills and your sign should read, "Thank You."

>>>> 15,000 strong in LA, 1 million strong in DC this weekend, 50,000 strong in SF and growing. You'll soon realize that minorities and activists just happen to outnumber simpletons.

A demonstration is like a black hole. Energy stays within the demonstrators and doesn't escape to see the light of day. Society issues a collective yawn. The demonstrators excite each other and that's the extent of it. There is no other result.

As I see it, the purpose of these demonstrations is to keep the believers drinking the Kool-Aid, and thereby hold the, ahem, peace movement together. I'd say that's a tough goal because the organizers don't have any basis for their warped beliefs.

Pacifica Radio propoganda doesn't hold up very well vs. the facts. The jig is up with those demonstrating begin to realize that they've been had.

Wow, groovy. Same old debate about the laughing fool, instead of a proactive discussion about alternatives to mass protest.

So, DC and SF. Thousands of people in the street, go home, then what. CNN has a poll saying that 74% of their non-scientific poll responders say a protest will be ineffective in stopping the war. Is this a case of the populace deciding that power is intractible that they cant be swayed, is it a statement that the protest minority is too small, is it a case of hopelessness. If people had hope and believed that they could change government through protest, would the horse follow the cart?

The question remains, what do we do outside of these media spectacles? What about talking to real people outside of the web, away from the tv cameras?

Is there an "L.A. Social Forum"? Our city is so big we may soon have several, if we get around to creating them....

anbody know how we might do this / get involved with it?

this thing seems to be growing rapidly.... (and is beginning to look very durable)

What about going into suburban areas after or during the main
march with balloon art and street theater right into major targeted neighborhoods? Being the town criers. Large break away contingents could reform to provide the kind of mischief the TV watchers would love to join in on. ( for instance; passing out “ stop war” and “Bush Knew/Did it.” stencils, all sizes, with flyers etc. The people are there and the state suppression has entrenched
itself for control of the main event. They are fairly immobile for a
few hours at least.
Battery powered sound, with groups of 50 or better converging into large density residential housing, proceeding to proclaim your information/solutions. A food
giveaway (soup, stew?)could draw crowds and gain support.
It would take well planned logistics. In and out, maybe 5 hours max.

THE BIGGEST FEAR THE DOLTS HAVE IS THAT THE "BEAST" WILL AWAKEN. Guess what? The BEAST is stirring. Don't let anyone fool you that the numbers do not count. THEY ARE WATCHING.

Lazy Lion, Lucky Lamb


Rise like lions, from slumber,
in unvanquishable number.
Shake your chains to the earth like dew
which in sleep had fallen on you.
Ye are many, they are few.

The elements were already there
his words were the catalyst.
Millions of oppressed powerless and angry
added to the list of those who never tried
(those who never tried).
He was the spark to a pool of gasoline:
a common, unspoken dream never yet gratified
(never yet gratified).

Now the frustrated were animated.
CEOs and congressmen were defenestrated.
A lion once lazy, a lamb once lucky,
now they sing:

Rise like lions, from slumber,
in unvanquishable number.
Shake your chains to the earth like dew
which in sleep had fallen on you.
Ye are many, they are few.

Now the frustrated were animated.
CEOs and congressmen were defenestrated.
A lion once lazy, a lamb once lucky,
now they sing:

Rise like lions, from slumber,
in unvanquishable number.
Shake your chains to the earth like dew
which in sleep had fallen on you.
Ye are many, they are few.

Our biggest enemy is the ignorance of the american people to propaganda.

All we need to do is make a simple half page flyer stating the truth behind bush's "world Domination" plan and give info on what each person can do to stop it, eg. upcoming protests, letters to governors, Or helping to pass a statement by vote that says La is against war, like San Jose did.

Post this flyer on this site to print out, everyone can make copies and flyer thier own niehboorhoods.

I made a flyer for theJ18 protest in Yorba Linda, and plastered saddleback college, on my own outside of the organizers, and i saw many saddleback faces amoung the 800 there.
Think Globally, Act Localy!!!