LOS ANGELES, California (CNN) -- Opponents of a war with Iraq marched in downtown Los Angeles on Saturday, carrying signs and chanting "Stop Bush now!"

About 2,000 people attended the demonstration, the Los Angeles Police Department estimated. No arrests or disturbances were reported.

Actor Martin Sheen, a longtime peace activist, and Bradley Whitford, who portrays Josh Lyman in NBC's "The West Wing" alongside Sheen, spoke at the rally.

Demonstrators carried signs reading "Stop the war" and "No blood for oil" as they marched to the federal building in Los Angeles.

The protest included the groups Not in our Name, the Coalition for World Peace and the Interfaith Communities United for Justice.

__________________________________________

LA Times Story

Thousands in LA Protest Possible War

Protest in Downtown L.A.
(BRIAN WALSKI / LAT)
January 11, 2003
 
  From Associated Press
LOS ANGELES -- With the U.S. government moving closer to war with Iraq, thousands of demonstrators, some pushing strollers and walking dogs, took to the streets of downtown Los Angeles Saturday to voice their protest.

"Here, take a picture of my sons' first protest," Maria Negrete, 27, goaded relatives as waves of people streamed by in a festival-like atmosphere.
   
   
   
 A mother of three small children, Negrete echoed the views of many accidental activists who said although a war with Iraq might be inevitable, they weren't going to sit back without a nonviolent fight.

"There are going to be children like mine who will die for oil, which I think is crazy, stupid and dumb," Negrete said. "So I brought my sons, who are just as beautiful as any in Iraq."

The demonstration came a day after the Bush administration issued a massive deployment order to send about 35,000 new troops to the Persian Gulf region. Famed Vietnam War veteran Ron Kovic, who uses a wheelchair, led the protesters.

Others lending their celebrity to the cause included Martin Sheen, star of NBC's "West Wing," and pop singer Jackson Browne.

Organizers put the turnout at 20,000. But police offered a much smaller estimate of 3,000. There were no reports of arrests or incidents, said Officer Grace Brady, a spokeswoman for the Los Angeles Police Department.

Kovic, whose autobiography "Born on the Fourth of July," was made into a movie, predicted the protest would mark the start of "one of the greatest anti-war movements in the history of the United States."

Additional demonstrations, timed to coincide with the upcoming Martin Luther King Jr. holiday weekend, are scheduled to take place in San Francisco and Washington, D.C., next Saturday.

"I and others are entering a deployment order for citizens of this country to go to the streets and to protest in mass," Kovic said.

Standing nearby, retired school teacher Bill Payne, 65, said he had not participated in anti-war protests during the Vietnam era. But his feelings about activism changed over the years, prompting him to drive two hours from his home in Yucaipa.

"I don't want to see any kids killed. That's it. That's all there is to it," he said. "No kids in Iraq killed, no kids any place killed."

But he said the U.S. war machine might be unstoppable.

"I am sure that (President Bush) is going to start his war anyway," he said. "I hope that he is getting stronger and stronger messages all the time that there are more and more people who really don't want this thing to happen."

Many of the signs at the protest appeared to be directed at the president.

"Mr. Bush, don't repeat your daddy's mistakes," read one.

"Bush is the real terrorist," said another.

"Bush, we are not your cattle," read a piece of white cloth hanging from a green rake.

Oscar Sanchez, an art student from El Salvador, found a creative way to express his dissent and belief that the conflict was being driven by oil.

Trailing behind his bicycle was a large military tank made of cardboard.

The names of two oil companies and the words "Just Married" were emblazoned on the make-believe military craft.

"By making it out of cardboard, I am showing that it can be discarded," Sanchez said.

contact the media and let them know what the deal is... be nice in all communication; anything but that is actually counter-productive.

Also, if everyone here that reads this sends a request to FAIR to take up this issue

http://www.fair.org/contact.html (email, phone and other info)

FAIR will likely do it. In military strategy, that is what would be known as a force multiplier. FAIR is highly respected, and they got the New York Times and NPR to print retractions re. the Oct. 26th protest. (see http://www.fair.org/activism/npr-nyt-update.html ) The effort isn't about getting retractions. That's hardly the focus. The focus is making the media realize that they are being watched, and that they're going to take heat if they lie or are so lazy as to not do real journalism. Accountability efforts have their greatest potential impact on future reporting, not past stories. The more stink that is raised about this b.s. coverage of Los Angeles, the better positioned we will all be to having the media report more accurately the massive protests next week

So, write to FAIR, write to CNN

Dear Editor:

Donald Rumsfeld and Bush Administration hawks laude of
the United States military's ability to deliver
munitions with "surgical precision" during the Gulf
War. Prior to a second potential invasion of Iraq by
ground troops, sorties will be flown by U.S. bombers
to cripple Iraqi infrastructure. Undoubtedly, power
generating facilities are high on the priority list of
Pentagon targets.

While neutralizing Iraq's ability to generate
electricity presents obvious merit as a military
target, this action will seriously impact the health
of the Iraqi civilian populace.

Water treatment plants that produce potable water, in
addition to wastewater treatment plants, which
disinfect raw sewage, require electricity to operate.
When Iraqi power plants are destroyed in the possible
second Gulf War, many civilians (especially the
elderly, pregnant women, and children) may succumb to
water-borne disease and die.

To put this in perspective, imagine the residents of
Los Angeles (or any other major U.S. city) gathering
water by hand in buckets from the Los Angeles River,
drinking the fetid water tainted by effluent from
up-stream residents of the San Fernando Valley for
months or years.

We would not allow this to occur in our country and
should we should not allow this fate to befall Iraqi
civilians. I urge the Bush administration to resolve
the Iraqi standoff peacefully.

Brad Wolaver
Pasadena, CA

The public relations phone number for the LAPD is (213) 485-3586 and (213)485-2504

Dear Editor:

Donald Rumsfeld and Bush Administration hawks laude of
the United States military's ability to deliver
munitions with "surgical precision" during the Gulf
War. Prior to a second potential invasion of Iraq by
ground troops, sorties will be flown by U.S. bombers
to cripple Iraqi infrastructure. Undoubtedly, power
generating facilities are high on the priority list of
Pentagon targets.

While neutralizing Iraq's ability to generate
electricity presents obvious merit as a military
target, this action will seriously impact the health
of the Iraqi civilian populace.

Water treatment plants that produce potable water, in
addition to wastewater treatment plants, which
disinfect raw sewage, require electricity to operate.
When Iraqi power plants are destroyed in the possible
second Gulf War, many civilians (especially the
elderly, pregnant women, and children) may succumb to
water-borne disease and die.

To put this in perspective, imagine the residents of
Los Angeles (or any other major U.S. city) gathering
water by hand in buckets from the Los Angeles River,
drinking the fetid water tainted by effluent from
up-stream residents of the San Fernando Valley for
months or years.

We would not allow this to occur in our country and
should we should not allow this fate to befall Iraqi
civilians. I urge the Bush administration to resolve
the Iraqi standoff peacefully.

Brad Wolaver
Pasadena, CA

9:02 p.m., Kevin Gonzales(z?) of KFWB (AM 980) just reported again that there were between 20 and 30,000 protesters at the march. But the AP report on their website says 3,000.

LA Times numbers are(877) 554-4000.
Also try the city desk at (213) 237-7001

I was there from nbeginning to end and am not a rookie or amateur. Have been in crowds ... many protests ... this was 7-10,000 and that's generous estimate.

But what a crowd. Incredible diversity of art and text in the personal expressions of these opposed to war: detailed images of Rumsfeld shaking hands with Hussein in 1983 copied and enlarged

succinct analyses of the various interests in this war ...
intelligent discourse and a clear, lucid rationale for protest and resistance.

Let's say it was ten thousand people. What does that mean?

IDoes it mean 100,000 people in LA agree?

can we begin to extrapolate the temperament of this place from the turnout?

I truly think estimates of 20,000 are way off ... I am sorry to say ... My feeling is 7500. and I was proud to be among you, us ...

let's grow .. let's organize and let's continue to resist and recruit more to our cause

Let us unite to stop this war ...

Thousands Rally Against War in Iraq, Push Peace
 
January 11, 2003

By Erika Hayasaki, Times Staff Writer
Thousands of people protesting a looming U.S.-led war against Iraq marched through downtown Los Angeles on Saturday, with many chanting, "We want peace!"

According to police, the crowd numbered between 5,000 and 7,000. Many wore their opinions, such as "No War" or "Don't Cut Medicare for Bombs and Missiles," on T-shirts, buttons and baseball caps. Organizers estimated the crowd at 15,000, said Karin Pally, who helped put on the event.
   
   
   
 Sponsored by KPFK-FM (90.7) radio and several peace organizations, the protest began just after 11:30 a.m. and ended about 5 p.m., after a march to the Federal Building at Temple and Los Angeles streets.

"All of these people here symbolize one idea: Let's not kill," said Onalysa Flynn, 19, a Los Angeles Valley College student who was attending her first protest. "Why isn't there another way? There's got to be another way."

At the Federal Building, rock singers, poets, activists and actor Martin Sheen, star of the NBC series "The West Wing," denounced war over loudspeakers. Rep. Maxine Waters (D-Los Angeles) and Los Angeles Urban League President John Mack also took part in the event, which was a precursor to a series of upcoming demonstrations set to take place in San Francisco and Washington, D.C., on Saturday.

The rally, monitored by police but with no arrests, followed President Bush's announcement that the U.S. will deploy 62,000 more U.S. troops to the Persian Gulf because of Iraq's continued efforts to manufacture nuclear arms and its refusal to cooperate with United Nations inspections.

Marc Hewitt, 24, of Los Angeles said war is being peddled by Bush for selfish reasons.

"I believe we're going to war for oil," said Hewitt, who attended the rally with his girlfriend, Natalie Wilson, 23, of Long Beach.

Wilson said this demonstration will send a powerful message, but just as important, "it will keep people sane."

"We feel powerless. But when you see people here who are like-minded, it feels good."

Marchers made their way toward the Federal Building via Broadway, passing jewelry and clothing shops, magazine stands and pizza parlors. Weekend shoppers stopped on sidewalks to watch, while some store owners stepped out from behind their registers to view the mile-long parade as it passed.

"I didn't know there would be this many people against war," said George Mobasseri, who owns Modern Broadway, a jeans boutique.

The smell of burning incense and sage lingered. The sound of beating drums echoed down street blocks. Meanwhile, children and adults who live in high-rise apartment complexes on Broadway peered down toward the street, some waving flags in support.

The crowd included Muslim women wearing head scarfs, a man in a suit and tie, an elderly woman with a walking cane, children wearing peace signs on their T-shirts, people in dreadlocks, mohawks and a Princeton University baseball cap.

There was 83-year-old Irja Lloyd, of the Sunset Hall retirement home in the Mid-Wilshire district, who came in her wheelchair with a bowl of grapes and a sign that read: "Speak Your Peace."

"I'm here because I believe in peace, and I have seen too much war," she said.

There was 5-year-old Naima Orozco of Alhambra, who pumped her fists in the air and cheered when an announcer yelled: "You cannot have peace by bombing innocent children and families."

Naima's mother, Irma Valdivia, said she brought her daughter because she wanted her to learn about freedom of speech.

Bonnie Morrison, 46, said when she heard about the demonstration she put on her walking shoes and headed downtown from Pasadena.

"My heart is in this," she said, adding that it was her first protest. The imminent war with Iraq, and the possible large-scale death and devastation it may cause, pushed her to take part in the event, she said.

"At least, if it happens, I know I did what I could to stop it," she said. "I just hope this administration hears us."

We walked the entire route, as well as walking against the flow of the protestors and believe a conservative estimate of 12,000-15,000 people particiated in the march and rally. Don't let the media downplay the event today! Hope to see you all in S.F. on Saturday! There are plenty of buses going. Get in touch with me if you need more info.

after such an inspiring and absolutely wonderous day amongst my 20,000-30,000 brothers and sisters in the streets of LA today....imagine my horror to come home to see CNN reporting a mere 2000 people! I was so livid, I spent the evening calling every CNN office I could find. unfortunately what I was found was mostly recorded messages. I suggest we do what was mentioned by someone earlier....contact FAIR. they will know what to do.

Please follow URL: http://www.cnn.com/feedback/ and leave your comments on a lousy piece of Journalism and Arithmetic.

CNN you deserve a better coverage of one of their main U.S. markets.

You are losing what's left of your your credibility...

Let's learn how to count: 1...2...3...about 2000!! C'mon!!!

As they say, "Don't complain about the media, become the media!" which is what we have right here. We can safely expect the CNN and the other corp. media are NOT going to be jumping onto our side any time soon. Let this and other injustices fuel our energies in building a cohesive movement. Even if they go ahead with their dirty little business let us be prepared for a MASSIVE non-violent response. History has shown that these protests DO have an effect, even reported inaccurately. Break you silence with the people around you, you will be surprised that they feel the same. And keep going, no matter what is reported. "The revolution will not be televised"

Why didn't I hear about this! Not to offend, and seriously warm and heartfelt congratulations for gathering so many from such diversity so safely, but y'all need to get the word out more! (Either that, or it's time for me to start paying more attention to la.indymedia.org!)

I would have been there, wanted to be there, but I didn't hear about it until I hit news.google.com! (I don't usually abuse the exclamation point like this, but it seems to fit, here and now...(!))

I want to go to SF with you guys, and I want to know about the next large scale action down here in LA. I want to bring my family, my grandma, my dog, my skateboard.

It's time for humanity to return to the business of simply being human!

Love yourself, love your fellow humans, love the earth! Break down the walls! Let's go! Ok!

Seriously, to all that made it downtown, and to every last soul that worked and sacrificed to make it happen, thank you! I love you! Thank you for speaking for me, for speaking for my grandma! I don't want to have her live through a third world war!



Let there be Peace!

--> After such an inspiring and absolutely wonderous day amongst my 20,000-30,000 brothers and sisters in the streets of LA today....imagine my horror to come home to see CNN reporting a mere 2000 people! I was so livid!

Help me to understand, Voter March, why is that important to you?

Suppose you read in the paper that 10 people showed up with signs and paraded in front of the abortion clinic -- does that make you adopt an anti-abortionist view? Does that make you a Jerry Falwell follower? No?

Well then, Suppose you read in the paper that 100 people showed up with signs and paraded in front of the abortion clinic -- does that make you adopt an anti-abortionist view? Does that make you a Jerry Falwell follower? No?

Suppose you read in the paper that 1,000 people showed up with signs and paraded in front of the abortion clinic -- does that make you adopt an anti-abortionist view? Does that make you a Jerry Falwell follower? No?

Suppose you read in the paper that 10,000 people showed up with signs and paraded in front of the abortion clinic -- does that make you adopt an anti-abortionist view? Does that make you a Jerry Falwell follower? No?

Suppose you read in the paper that 100,000 people showed up with signs and paraded in front of the abortion clinic -- does that make you adopt an anti-abortionist view? Does that make you a Jerry Falwell follower? No?

Suppose you read in the paper that 1,000,000 people showed up with signs and paraded in front of the abortion clinic -- does that make you adopt an anti-abortionist view? Does that make you a Jerry Falwell follower? No?

Now suppose CNN reports that 10,000,000 men and women marched behing the Reverend Farrakhan in support of his views. Does that make you a Farrakhan supporter? Do you like him any better? Give him any more credibility? Think more highly of him?

The answers are: No, no, no, no, no, no, no, and no!

The only possible effect is that you marvel over how many whackos would come out for something so obviously off the wall. The message is: "Hey Martha, come look at the TV, you won't believe how many misguided people got out there for this."

Regarding the estimates of crowds, you estimated 7,500.

As a benchmark, Anaheim Stadium holds approximately 45,000 these days. Are you telling me that the crowd that I was part of yesterday could fit into Anaheim stadium 6 times over?!

I think not. My estimate of crowds exiting that stadium as viewed from the freeway on the east and the main entrance/exit from the southwest indicates a crowd closer to 45,000.

It seems that this whole crowd-size problem needs to be tackled in a very straightforward way. Instead of just accepting estimates from the police, State media and some-dude-on-the-protest we need a standard method that everyone uses. If the police are claiming 3000 then we've got to ask them how they obtained that number. If they claim it's from aerial photos then they've got to supply those to us (it is public information collected by our public "servants" right?!). If they have some other methodology then they've got to supply us with the raw-data, detail their methodology officially. Attempts to skew these numbers would then be proven to be lies and the responsible parties could be punished appropriately.

As it is we're stuck in a he-says-she-says trap.

Has anyone called the police to ask them to provide this information?

Lets sort this out.

(btw I also want to know how the organizers got the 20,000 number).

We were there yesterday, there were people as far as I could see in front of me and in back. The L.A. Times article said that the march was a mile long with people. My husband estimates that if you fit 10 people into a 10 square foot space, multiply that by how many square feet are in a mile, you'd get between 15,000 and 16,000. I've seen so many different guesstimates over this. I know there were more than 3,000. That's just false. I wrote the L.A. Times this morning, come on let's get on them!

Can anyone provide a URL of the picture of Rumsfeld shaking
hands with Saddam Hussein?

It would be best if you have the exact date, just saying vaguely 1983
would look... vague.

sorry no date, but..... is this it?

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anticrisis

thanks lynx-11, but i looked up

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/11/22514_comment.php#23463

and all i found was a troll anti-troll debate, no photo of my favorite ;)
right-wing fundamentalist let's gas-the-Iranians and then massacre
the Iraqis Donald Duck Rumsfeld...

:(

Any other ideas? i guess the question is how do you run
google on *images*, apart from asking human beings?

When I clicked on the URL, I landed right on the picture. It's there. Do it again and let the page download in full. And if for whatever reason you don't land on the picture (perhaps at the top of the page), just scroll through the huge thread. It's easy to spot, as a picture.

As for google searching, it's like any searching (and searching is an art form). The thing is, their pic database is indexed by file name (file name of the pictures) as well as contextual searches of the content found on the webpages where the pics are found. So, you have to be a little imaginative when searching. For example, if you plug in his name directly, you'll get a number of pics of the sociopath (both men qualify!). If you pick one man's name and the name of the country, you'll get other pics. If you use phrases in quotes you'll pull up listings where context on web pages will be more the factor.

I was there Saturday with my DV camera and videotaped the entire
march from the police "entourage" at the beginning to the big
phallic missile at the end. Looking at the playback I would argue
that there were indeed at least 15 - 20,000 people at the most. I
got the tapes to prove it. I was at the Anti-Inaugural March in
January of 2001 and taped that one, which was 4700 at the most.
This march was about 4 times that amount. The throng of people
seemed to go on forever.

3,000 is a gross underestimate, but what do you expect from an
LAPD that doesn't even accurately document its own police shootings
and misuses of power.

Crap News Network will grossly underestimate an Anti-War march
but then claim that 30,000 in South Korea protested against the North,
while only showing a group of masked men burning the North Korean flag.
Go figure. At the very least they broadcast (at midnight on Saturday of course)
Larry King's spineless interview with Sean Penn, who has just returned
from a humanitarian observation tour of Iraq. Kudos to Penn for holding
up against King's ridiculous questions and for giving some great criticisms
of O'Reily and Murdoch.

REVISING ESTIMATES

I intially felt that there were 7500 people there and have had some response implying 15,000.

Let's call it between 7500 and 15,000 if you like, but I wish people would put away the 45,000 and the 20,000 figures. I think that is an exaggeration.

Worse, exagerrating the figure doesn't really serve the movement. The real point is ... "not hey were there x thousand?" it's ... "and I think we'll probably double for the next march. "

Regarding Anaheim Stadium holding 45,000 ...

I, too, have been among 45,000 - 80,000 sitting in stadia. There is no way we were close to that downtown.

I am willing to go as high as 15,000 and want to be on the record as firm or something because I hope we can all agree on a ceiling and MOVE ON to the next march.

"They" say there were 42,000 in SF on October 26th, 2002 ... how many will there be this Saturday?

I'm driving my family up. Hope to see you there.

Measuring Sticks for Peace

Fair enough, measuring stick! We'll just have to agree to disagree.

Unfortunately, I will be unable to attend S.F. or D.C. but will be protesting in Yorba Linda in Orange County at the Nixon Library instead.

Thanks Phone-snoop,
I just called the LAPD press office and tried to correct their inaccurate estimate of the crowd size.
Surprisingly, they have upped the official number to 7,000. Still not correct, but at least it's closer to the real thing.