If you cross a reptile with a toad you get Governor Ryan.

He needs to be immediately excommunicated from the Republican Party. Anyone who's had the misfortune to shake hands with him during the past week should take a bath.

The turd has completely disregarded the intent of the laws in Illinois. He's perverted the clemmency statute and It will need to be revised.

I wouldn't put him in the same category with Al Queda. He's about half a notch better than them.

Bush Admirer is in the company of nazis, given that he would rather murder people with a system known to be full errors and a track record of sending innocent people to death row.

The governor did the right thing.

What innocent people have ever been sent to death row Jake?

George Ryan?s decision to clear Illinois? death row has, as expected, sent shock waves across the United States and especially to those groups and individuals that follow the capital punishment debate.

After reading Ryan?s statement in addition to almost every response I could find regarding his decision, I?ve come up with the following conclusion which can be summarized in one word: Overrated. Before I get into that, I?d like to give a couple of thoughts on his decision.

George Ryan despises the punishment of death. He has admitted as much. As a result of that despise he turned a system with proven problems in to a totally broken system. His act is so disturbing to many not only because he embraced the proverbial throwing out the baby with the bath water attitude, but because he truly abused the office for which he was elected. A governor is the highest executive officer of a state. An executive officer?s main responsibility, actually, his ONLY official responsibility, is to execute the laws that govern that state. Ryan felt that the law, as it applied to capital punishment, could not be executed properly. Fine. He declared a moratorium to explore and study the possible miscarriages of justice that could have taken the lives of innocent individuals and in that way reaching reforms that were supposed to fix the problems. Bravo.

However, instead of exploring the issue on a case by case basis, as he was expected to do, he took the easy way out and threw the towel on the subject. George Ryan proved what many of his critics, mostly those who saw his administration as corrupted regardless of the issue of the death penalty, charged. Ryan never wanted to ?fix? the system. He wanted to completely break it so that someone else can rebuild it. Honestly, I doubt that he actually wants to see a fixed and fair capital punishment process in place. He?d rather see it as he left it, non-existent and broke. It is important to point out that when Ryan announced his moratorium plan, the basis for such was to correct its imperfections. Yet, he turned it into an escape hatch for many convicted murderers and in the process he abdicated both his official responsibilities to execute the laws as well as to make sure that those laws are in fact properly executed. The man bailed out. All in all, he turned out to be a fraud. If the system is in fact broken, as he called it, he did nothing to repair it. It'll be of little consolation for a man or a woman wrongfully convicted of murder to be sitting in a cell for the rest of their lives now that Ryan sold out the whole "fixing" process. How sad. It?ll be less consolation for the families of those that Ryan?s mercy saved to know that the murderer of their loved one will be changing lifestyles at their own expense.

Having said all that, his decision to giver collective mercy to those that deserved it as well as those who didn?t, is totally overrated in the grand picture of whether the death penalty will be viable in this country. Some pros have taken Ryan?s commutations as if it is another Furman. So have antis. I mean, the yahoo anti-DP site looked like each and every one of the participants had won the lottery. The truth is different.

First of all, Ryan?s decision is already been sharply criticized by every side of the political spectrum. Only those hardcore abolitionists have totally embraced it. However, even the in-coming democratic governor of the state has called it a mistake. Victims have made their dissatisfaction be heard quite loudly. Legislators (of both parties) are talking about revising the power of commutation given to governors in Illinois. Governors of other states have stated that the decision was ?over the top?. All in all, this total commutation decision has the looks of a total backfire. As long as the American public supports it, the death penalty is going nowhere. Period.

George Ryan gave up on a system that he wished never existed. Not difficult to do at all. However, in the overall outlook of capital punishment, his decision will be seen as a novelty, with little or no impact on every other state that does carry out the mandates of their citizens. Overstated, yes. Overrated, for sure.

The documentation is plentiful of innocent people sent to death row. The fact that you would even ask such a question is chilling.

First stop on your education that there are flaws in the legal system should be Northwestern Law School's Center on Wrongful Convictions. http://www.law.northwestern.edu/depts/clinic/wrongful/exonerations/index.htm

Then check out this website sponsored by Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law. The http://www.innocenceproject.org/
"The Innocence Project at the Benjamin N. Cardozo School of Law, created by Barry C. Scheck and Peter J. Neufeld in 1992, is a non-profit legal clinic. This Project only handles cases where postconviction DNA testing of evidence can yield conclusive proof of innocence."

'nuff said

Bush urged to empty all death rows

thanks to 'web snoop' for great links:

The Exonerated

The Innocence Project

see also: police brutality thread

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anticrisis

On Sunday, the Chicago Tribune published a list of the inmates spared from execution, along with a synopsis of the crime for which each was sentenced to death. Consider the following:

— Lorenzo Fayne: Stabbed or strangled four girls, ages 9 to 17. He sexually assaulted one victim and molested the body of another.

— Anthony Brown: Strangled and suffocated a 67-year-old woman in her home. He had previously served time in prison for rape.

— Evan Griffith: While already serving a sentence for murder, stabbed a fellow inmate to death at the Pontiac Correctional Center.

— Lenard Johnson: Stabbed an 11-year-old boy to death and sexually assaulted three girls, ages 7, 11, and 13, while babysitting them in their home.

— Fedell Caffey and Jacqueline Williams: Shot a pregnant woman in her home, cut the nearly full-term baby from her womb, and stabbed her two children.

I lived in Chicago from October of 1995 through October of 2000. I remember the Jacqueline WIlliams case. Ms. WIlliams was at the time a nurse who couldn't have children, and wanted to have one. A co-worker of hers Debra Evans, was nine months pregnant and had two other children, Samantha, 10, and Joshua, 7.
Ms. Williams decided on a plan of action. With the help of two male accomplices they went to Ms. Evans' home with the intention of getting Ms. Williams an infant. Forcing their way into the home, they tracked down and stabbed to death Samantha. Then they hacked Ms. Evans open and ripped the unborn child from her womb. Last they kidnapped Joshua, then thought better of it and stabbed him to death and deposited him in a dumpster.

Really nice work, Ex-Governor Ryan.

Oh, and by the way, the now-spared Mr. Caffey is looking for a pen pal. I'm sure some of you Leftists would enjoy conversing with an animal that rips fetuses from pregnant women to and butchers children. Cheerio.

"I am looking for someone from the outside world to correspond with. I am a black male, age 27, 6 feet tall, black hair, brown eyes. I'm interested in writing to anyone between the ages of 20 and 40 yrs. Old. My interests are history, music, writing letters and sports.
Thank you
Fedell Caffey, #K71180
PO Box 711
Menard
IL 62259
USA"

http://www.lampofhope.org/ilk71180.html

Simon, I must be more outraged then you by any brutal murder.

What's really chilling, you moron, is that even in the literature you yourself put forth as proof of innocents being executed, there is not a single mention of ANYONE INNOCENT BEING EXECUTED. Get your head outta your ass and read a little deeper. Every case sited on those two sites, is a case of an exoneration of a prisoner BEFORE execution. So, again, NAME ONE INNOCENT WHOSE BEEN EXECUTED ON DEATH ROW. Christ, you're an idiot.

Yeah, those exonerated deathrow inmates were found to be innocent by extra-legal proceedings outside of the court system. Journalists decided to see what would happen if they dug up these cases and match it with new evidence. without extra-legal interest, these people were as good as dead.

And innocents being exicuted- as far as I know, the state has not allowed access to records on dead people. DNA testing to prove innocence or guilt won't be forthcoming because extra-legal parties are not able to do thier work. At this point, though it could change, looking for post mortem innocence is like like looking to do extensive interview living revolutionary war veterans. They are not around.

"Uh, read again Jackass".....?

the question was: "what innocent people have ever been sent to death row?"

that question was neatly answered by 'web snoop' who provided us with these useful links:

The Exonerated

The Innocence Project

-------------------------------------------------------------------------

....but outraged 'fresca' wants us to "read a little deeper", so:

Twenty-Five Executions with Reasonable Doubts: A Brief Analysis of Some post-Gregg v. Georgia Executions

Reasonable Doubts:
Is the U.S. Executing Innocent People?

here are some names for search engine users:

Brian K. Baldwin, Cornelius Singleton and Freddie Lee Wright of Alabama; Thomas M. Thompson of California; James Adams, Willie Darden and Jesse Tafero of Florida; Girvies Davis of Illinois; Griffin and Roy Roberts of Missouri; Odell Barnes, Robert N. Drew, Gary Graham, Richard W. Jones and Frank B. McFarland of Texas; and Roger K. Coleman of Virginia.

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anticrisis

So why did Fedell Caffey and Jacquilene WIlliams get a reduction in sentance?

Why did he get a reduced sentence. Well, you know that they commuted death penalty cases. You know the answer. Maybe the gov had a case of consciousness.

Or maybe, politics. (?)

It's a case of consciousness to overturn the verdict of a jury and the decision of a judge? To allow the State to provide for these animals until the end of their natural lives (or is it really just until some future Governor finds that life without parole is too harsh?) It's politics to stay the hand of justice and slap the face of the surviving family members? Charming. Ex Governor Ryan is a coward. His act was an obscenity.

As I said earlier, I must be more outraged then you by brutal murder.

What do you mean, exactly? It sounds rather presumptuous.

It means Im as outraged by the beurocratic state killing people as i am by homicidal maniacs.

You seem to think that an individual has no right to animalistically kill but someone else, but a beurocratic machine has the right to animalisticaly kill. Chilling.

It means Im as outraged by the beurocratic state killing people as i am by homicidal maniacs.

You seem to think that an individual has no right to animalistically kill but someone else, but a beurocratic machine has the right to animalisticaly kill. Chilling.

What's chilling is the disregard you have for INNOCENT life and the immense respect you have for GUILTY life.

If an animal attacks or kills a human being it is 'put down'. The reason: having attacked a person, it is more likely to do so in the future. We act proactively to prevent the possibility of this happening. Do you oppose this as well?

The death penalty is applied to only 2% of all murder cases (in Illinois, sorry I don't have national statistics). This means it is a very selective punishment reserved for only the most heinous of crimes: Mass murder or repeat murder. The creatures who rate this sort of punishment are the most vicious of human kind. I would have them put down. You would what? Have them put away for 'life without parole'? Or is that too harsh for you? How about life with the possiblity of parole after 40 years? But, golly that means their whole productive life will be spent behind bars. How cruel. How about just incarcerating them until they promise to be good?

Meanwhile Samantha, Joshua and Debra Evans' bodies are decaying in the ground.

The death penalty deters crime, and would deter more crime if it was speedily enforced in cases of admitted guilt or where guilt is beyond question. The various commissions which have revisited cases nationwide in search of 'innocent' men on death row have found the odd case where a man's DNA doesn't match a crime scene. In these cases, the media makes a large hullabaloo about them and everyone shakes their heads about how the death penalty needs abolishing. The prisoner in question is released immediately, and before he hits the exit he is talking to a trial lawyer. All well and good as far as I am concerned - an innocent man should never go to jail. But what about all the rest? What about the 99.998% of those on death row who HAVE been conclusively linked to the crimes they committed, who are guilty beyond a shadow of a doubt? Why are they not executed with the same dispatch?

And to quote H.L. Mencken:

"Hanging one scoundrel, it appears, does not deter the next. Well, what of it? The first one is at least disposed of."

I admire the Governor.
1. He had doubts about the death penalty and the guilt of hte people on death row and he acted on that doubt in favor of erring on the side of life. This was a couragous act.

2. His action is consistent with his beliefs and consistency is somethat that should be highly prized in the legal/political arena. Many conservatives argue that we should give life the benefit of the doubt before birth and many liberals argue the same for death row inmates but few seem to see the irony of opposing it on the other side of the equation.. Ryan is consistent and errs in favor of life in both situations.

I admire the Governor.
1. He had doubts about the death penalty and the guilt of hte people on death row and he acted on that doubt in favor of erring on the side of life. This was a couragous act.

2. His action is consistent with his beliefs and consistency is somethat that should be highly prized in the legal/political arena. Many conservatives argue that we should give life the benefit of the doubt before birth and many liberals argue the same for death row inmates but few seem to see the irony of opposing it on the other side of the equation.. Ryan is consistent and errs in favor of life in both situations.

That argument from Mencken means what, exactly? One less player to line up for their "team?"
Take a step back.
This is a very political issue and strikes to the core of the application of our criminal justice system in America. Or rather, its selective application. Such lofty issues as financial resources, selective application, bias, political grandstanding, juries not of your peers, and others often rear their ugly heads. The failure, at least in Illinois, of their legislature, prosecutors, and courts to address these human failings is at the core of the Governors decision. Ackowledging the inequities in the system is a huge step. Until they can be remedied, the system will continue to be fraught with error.
Do some people deserve to die? - I would hold to yes.
Does the state (in our name) bear the burden of meting out this punishment? - Currently in states that have Capital Punishment, yes?
Does the system exhibit fair standards and application of the death penalty as justice? - Currently, no.
Has there been a systemic effort to address these issues? - Again, no.
Do these issues and their import strike to the heart of the US Criminal Justic Sytem? - Yes.

While I hold personal reservations against sweeping clemency for all on death row, faced with the failures of the aforementioned bodies (legislature, judges, and prosecutors) to reconcile these issues, the Governor took the last step he had. It will, undoubtably, be the most remebered (both reviled and cheered) episode of his public life. I doubt he will ever hold an elected office again, a a result.

What a bunch of malarkey.

1. In case you haven’t been paying attention, Johnstone, Ex Governor Ryan gave a blanket reprieve. If you look above you will see four examples of those given a reprieve by the Governor. Not too pretty.
2. If his actions were so consistent with his beliefs why didn’t he do this before? Why did he wait, Clinton-like, until the last day of his tenure? Because he is a coward, afraid of the rebuke he richly deserves for such a craven act. These hundred or so murderers killed hundreds of innocents, and now this man would overturn the authority of the electorate, the rulings of juries and judges simply to satisfy his own beliefs.
3. Conservatives tend to be in favor of the death penalty and opposed to abortion on demand. Reason: Because they would execute the guilty and spare the innocent.

President's have never abused the constitutionally vested power of clemency and commutation...


http://jurist.law.pitt.edu/pardons6.htm

W. Mark Felt and Edward Miller (Reagan, 1981; clemency for authorizing FBI agents to break into Vietnam protestors' offices without warrants)
Gilbert Dozier (Reagan, 1984; commuted sentence for extortion and racketeering)
Junior Johnson (Reagan, 1985; pardoned for liquor offences committed in the 1950s)
Albert Alkek (Reagan, 1987; clemency for withholding information from federal officials regarding an oil price-fixing scheme)
George Steinbrenner (Reagan, 1989)
Armand Hammer (Bush, 1989; pardoned for making illegal contributions to President Nixon's re-election campaign in 1972)
Caspar Weinberger (Bush, 1992)
full text of President Bush's pardon proclamation
Edwin L. Cox, Jr. (Bush, 1993; pardoned for bank fraud)
Aslam P. Adam (Bush, 1993; clemency for heroin trafficking)
Joseph Occhipinti (Bush, 1993; commuted sentence for violating the civil rights of accused criminals)
http://abclocal.go.com/kabc/news/112602_nw_bush_turkey.html

http://www.fas.org/news/iran/1992/921224-260039.htm

http://www.cnn.com/2001/ALLPOLITICS/03/07/bush.pardon/

http://archive.salon.com/news/col/cona/2001/02/27/pardons/

http://www.newyorkslime.com/bush-pardons-dog.html

S.S., The fact that four of those being repreved probably committed horrible crimes does not mean much. My argument goes directly to your point about conservatives wanting to protect the innocent. To my view, if there is a chance of innocent life being hurt, we should err in favor of the suspected innoncent.

I agree with Marc's argument that some may deserve to die but we're really not sure who. There is a chance that each of the four would have been spared the death penalty with a different trial. With the the unborn, maybe the abortionists are right and there is no life prior to birth, but there is a question here and until complete and absolute certainty, we should err towards life.

Gov. Ryan had doubts. He acted on these doubts. What other motive is being claimed? Do people claim he was bribed as some claim of Clinton? Is there any reason to believe he acted otherwise?

Ryan is a man of courage. He is not acting like a knee-jerk, dogmatic liberal or conservative. He has a consistency that, while destroying his career, should be admired.

His motives does opposing the death penalty are visible - those who oppose the death penalty but promote abortion or vice- versa are inconsistent.

Very well put.

Johnstone, all 157 of these murderers had trials, appeals, more appeals, independant investigations, etc. ad nauseum. They were found guilty of murder, and all the 'innocence projects' in the world couldn't find anything to exonerate them. They should swing from a sour apple tree.

I fail to see the inconsistancy of being opposed to abortion and in favor of the death penalty. As I stated above, many Conservatives believe in the sanctity of life. But they also believe in personal responsiblity. An unborn child is guiltless, the proverbial innocent. A multiple-murderer is guilty, and forfeits their right to walk among the living. Society must protect itself from the animals in human skin that would prey upon it. A society that fails to do so will be beset by more and more of these creatures.

But maybe you're right. Wouldn't it be wonderful if some corrections officer in Illinois executed all 157 of these animals for us, and could do so without fearing being sentenced to die? Now there's a thought to warm your soul.

"all 157 of these murderers had trials, appeals, more appeals, independant investigations, etc. ad nauseum"

True, but didn't the people who were later found to be innocent have the same thing - appeals, etc, etc. A fair trial doesn't always give a correct verdict

I guess its a matter of personal morality and we could argue "is too" "is not" forever but I do see an inconsistency with death row opponents who are pro-choice as well as with those advocates who are pro-life. To me its a case of how absolutely-positively-no hint of doubt- sure are you that life begins in the third trimester versus how absolutely-positively-no hint of doubt- sure are you that not only is a person guilty but also that the crime committed is worthy of capital punishment.

I think Ryan had a doubt and rather than take a chance decided to take the riskless option of commuting to life imprisonment. Keep this in perspective - he's not pulling a Clinton and pardoning them. They are still locked up.

By the way, where did you get that quote of Ryans?

By the way, why the nickname "Johnstone"? I was just reading about Thomas Aikenhead, a Scottish seminary student hanged for blasphemy in Edinburgh in 1697. One of those who defended him publicly and argued that he should not be executed was of the surname Johnstone. Coincidence?

http://www.uua.org/uuhs/duub/articles/thomasaikenhead.html

attoning for the sins of my forefathers. My family has been haunted for centuries by this shame and the curse that the Aikenheads put on my family.

I hope you do understand that Ryan, depending on his motives, does not fall out of the family of classical conservative. Certainly execution is the ultimate manifestation of 'big government'.

Governor Ryan of Illinois was nothing to be admired in any sense of the word. Chances are his only reason for doing this was to win the Nobel Peace Prize and collect $1,000,000.

OK....once and for all, you do not have to put up name of innocent people to prove that innocent people have been executed...you only have to prove that the SYSTEM is IMPERFECT, and as such yields IMPERFECT results...and all reasoning people would agreee that the system is not perfect, therefor the results will be imperfect...guilty will go free...innocents will die.

Very simple..IF you decide to think....a precondition that excludes Pvt. Fido (AKA Simple Simon) and BushBlower...

If you're a brutal murderer, it seems, you just can't win. The New York Times and Washington Post both have weepy accounts of the difficulties facing Illinois's erstwhile death-row inmates as they move to regular prisons after ex-Gov. George Ryan's blanket commutation. Here's the Times:

It is not that Danny Edwards wants to die, per se, it is just that he does not want to leave death row.

The guards here know about his heart condition and make sure Mr. Edwards exercises daily, regardless of weather. His 8-by-13-foot cell with the metal bed frame is not much, but at least it is his alone. The condemned share a bond, "like one big family," Mr. Edwards said--a family about to be broken up. And without a looming execution, he could lose his free appellate lawyer, who he still hopes will win him a new trial.

"I'm not thrilled about spending the rest of my life in prison--who would be?" Mr. Edwards, 46, said this morning in an interview at Pontiac Correctional Center, where officials have begun dismantling death row.

http://www.nytimes.com/2003/01/17/national/17DEAT.html

And that's just the beginning of Danny Edwards's problems. As he tells the Times' Jodi Wilgoren: "I'm not looking forward to group showers."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/articles/A3742-2003Jan16.html

Wow, that's rough. What did poor Danny do to deserve this?

Lest we forget, that's not a rhetorical question. In 1987 he kidnapped Stephen Small, a 40-year-old newspaper publisher. The plan was to demand ransom, but instead Edwards decided to murder Small by burying him alive. Now he tells us he's "not thrilled" about spending the rest of his life in prison. The heart bleeds.