Subject: [TopangaPeaceAlliance] Fw: NY Times Peace Ad. Christmas Present to the People of Iraq!

Dear Folks--

This was sent by Frank Dorrel, tireless activist whom the Topangans among us
heard speak at the first Topanga Peace Alliance Forum.

I think the attached is a really good anti-war ad. It's well-timed to
advertise the 1/18 Washington DC rally and gives ordering info for three good
sources of real info. on the war. It's not completely paid for yet and Yumi
Morita and her husband Gen need contributions sent by check to them Japan.
(We Topangans met Yumi--wonderfully positive, dedicated and energetic--and
their young child at the same TPA forum. )

May you and yours have a peaceful, loving Christmas--or whatever you celebrate
to bring light to the dark season of the year--a time-out for appreciating the
goodness that is also in our world and to connect deeply with love and loved
ones.

Eva

----- Original Message -----
From: Frank
To: Undisclosed-Recipient:;
Sent: Wednesday, December 25, 2002 12:50 PM
Subject: NY Times Peace Ad. Christmas Present to the People of Iraq!


Dear Friends,

It's Christmas day here in Culver City. People in America are celebrating
Christmas with family, friends, food and presents. Some have more to celebrate
then others. Meanwhile, it looks as though our government is getting ready to
begin bombing Iraq any day now, killing who knows how many thousands of
innocent Iraqi people and children.

My friend Yumi Kikuchi has been working to place this ad against this possible
invasion of Iraq, in the New York Times. It will be printed on January 3rd and
published sometime between then and January 18th, which is the day of the
large anti-war rally being held in Washington DC and in San Francisco, and in
many other cities across the country. The last anti-war rally held in DC and
SF on Oct. 26th, had over 230,000 show up in those two cities.

Yumi and her husband Gen Morita are paying for the ad but have only collected
about $10,000 so far. They still need to raise another $30,000 to pay for this
ad. If any of you are so inclined, please send a donation that you will feel
good about. You could think of it as a Christmas present to the people of Iraq.

Please send check to:

Gen Morita
1047 Naka, Kamogawa
Chiba, Japan 296-0111

If you have any questions you can email Yumi at: yumik@awa.or.jp or Gen at:
gen@awa.or.jp

In Peace & Solidarity

Frank Dorrel
P.O. Box 3261
Culver City, CA 90231-3261
(310) 838-8131
www.addictedtowar.com

It has a nice balance -- given that one must always deal with limited space and an attempt to speak to a broad audience.

I was surprised to see the cost at $40,000. Ouch... Makes me want to look over the NYT's financial statements again and figure out just how much honest accounting is there....... ;-)

Does anyone know of any formal study that has been done attempting to compare and contrast peace strategies from a traditional cost/benefit analysis? I wonder if that's out here somewhere. Maybe someday I can do something like that and get ambitious -- take an academic stab at it.

flush yourself down too while yer at it bush admirer--you're as worhtless as a dump

I should think it is the right as well and much of the so called left that can't face truth. what's wrong with your statement is that it doesn't recognize that AWARENESS is the issue, not whether such an ad will halt the Bush and NWO war machine...but someday it might, when enough people are savvy to what's up and are willing to scream enough about it (but that's what the establishment is so very fearful of, and why we now have acts such as the so-called Patriot and Homeland). the truth is that the coming "war" or rather, slaughter, is about greed and control and power, and nothing to do with the spew of lies rolling out of th e mouth of bush and fascist cronies. And my beef with you , specifically, since I stumble across your negativity each time I visit here, is that you prefer to sit there and take your potshots and make quips and suffer readers with your hideus arrogance and ego..your add absolutely nothing to this forum, and your intent here is merely to foment anger.....an emotion of which the world already has enough of. Further my beef with you is that you contribute absolutley nothing that is positive--you merely react and taunt and your posts themselves are more often than not full of b.s. and shoddy, if any, genuine insight or research. I have been trying to reflect what you represent in my posts, but alas, you perceive not. There is no longer any issue about right or left.....for th e most part they are one and the same. The issue is how the people of this country ar e going to get thier country back, and how we are going to prevent the NWO fascists from destroying the world and us. If you want to live, then change.

Bush Admirer posts to the site are in the hundreds.

He abuses the Indymedia Project’s community open publishing by pistol whipping anybody that’s not a “right wing ideologue”. His actions are designed to disrupt or divert the flow of information by making B. A. the center of attention.

In open publishing jargon he is know as a TROLL!

Bush admirer...
this is america... and we are americans... we have values that we hold very strongly and we do not kill to satisfy our thirst for blood and revenge.

Please go back to saudi arabia or wherever it is that you come from... you are not welcome in our country.

this is america, and we are americans. we do things differently than you do. please take your views back with you to saudi arabia or wherever it is you come from. you are not welcome in our country.

this is america, and we are americans. we do things differently than you do. please take your views back with you to saudi arabia or wherever it is you come from. you are not welcome in our country.

see

la times article here:

http://dc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=43360&group=webcast

Bush Admirer, remember the great days in October, when you were posting meaningless messages about "smelly hippies" going to protests, and how there were only a handful of people in San Francisco (80,000, actually)?

Just because people have different views doesn't mean they are not patriotic.

Acting like you act, however, is moronic, not patriotic

Bush Admirer is right about one thing regarding Mike's comment about the "NEW World Order."

This is pure fantasy and delusion for the Right Wing Conspiracy creeps to indulge in. These clowns like Mike are even worse than Bush Admirer in that they portray themselves as 'critics of the system'--only to disguise and confuse what "The System" really is.

In case you hadn't realized yet Mike, the so-called "New World Order" is an American World Order, an American dominated system of global capitalist exploitation and subjugation--of, by, and for American interests. When Right Wing disinformationalists spout their rhetoric about the NEw World Order, the Illumanti, or nonsense about a United Nations World government, what they are in fact doing is to distract from the reality and truth of the American Imperialist system itself.

As such, these NWO creeps are nothing more than another form of American disinformation and propaganda.

Worse yet, these NWO clowns always wrap themselves in some kind of phony Populist rhetoric that "there is no Right Wing or Left" and the "Left should unite with the Right"--under a traditional Right Wing nationalist agenda and leadership of course.

Sorry, MIke, there are fundamental and irreconciable differences between the LEft and the Right. The Right Wing in America has always and forever supported American nationalism, American capitalism, and the 200 hundred year old American Empire itself. Your criticisms of the existing American system (i.e. the so-called NWO) are based primarily upon an agenda advocating a more Nationalistic, and more nativist America.

Left and right are anachronistic. There are those who would be bosses and there are those who would not have masters. Im a fiscal conservative, but a social liberal. I am not a fucking reactionary warmonger just because I remember that "progressive" gave us eugenics, and because I see too many traditional commies (central beaurocratics) for my comfort on the "left.

You might consider the NOLAN TEST available on the Lib website. Its about freedom, its not about the 18th century map.

And BTW- you are right about the TROLL BUSHITE. It only acts nice and open-to-dialogue so as to propogate it's aggitation/excuse for joy. The snot should bow and 'not have sexual relations' with "the Best Republican President Ever" (mike more's words) Bill Clinton. Billy Boy who passed for the Reps the programs they could not force thru.

Way to go "democrat leftie..." Bosses on the left, Bosses on the right. Nothing in the lead but a mixed bunch of libertarians and anarchists.

I don't know if you were alive in the early 90's, but herr Bush itself stood on the Capitol steps surounded by his henchmen and spouted the words, NEW WORLD Order in his rampage against Nicaragua. Duh. I do know , son, that the NWO is actually the same old WO, and no I don't come from a far right wing prespective regarding this and the UN. You're kinda like Bush adm--you assume too much. Maybe you and he should have a little tete a tete, hmmm?

ps-and moreover, I don't need a history lesson about the right. The point is, beloved one, the so called Democrats are looking pretty rightist to me--cain't hardly tell one from a "conservative" no mo. They've all been bribed or bullyed o r revelated into succoring the New Old World Order of domination and rule by force. Who the fuck cares what you call it --it's the same negativity. What the right and the so called Dems don't get is that Bush and Co are merely getting started--putting the programs into place. And that's no bull.

It's time for you to get up from the couch and sit elsewhere. What you describe delineates the Repubs to a tee--steal money from the masses via IRS and redistribute it, via corporate subsidies, to the already rich. The neoliberals are just as horrendous. Instead of cubbyholing people as right or left, look to the right or wrong and therein ye shall find some the truth ye pretend to know. Herr Bush recently stole billions upon billions to stuff into the pockets of the already rich--who do you think staffs his adm anyway, Joe carpenter and Nancy waitress. And, notice how the subject got chnaged from Enron CEO's et al back in the spring to the "threat" of S Hussein--there are reasons why these topics surface and then disappear. All corporate thieves, and meanwhile the right bemoans and would like to guillotine mothers on welfare because they're "soaking' the system. Where is the right, where is the wrong. You must be about 25 years old. get together with know-it-all anti imperialist who thinks he is always right. Should be a hoot.

Bush couldn't care less about inspectors. Even if they find nothing, which to date they haven't (surprise) he'd go to war, because WMD aren't the issue for Prince of Darkness Bush and his minions. The tired phrase remains true--it's about oil, and control of the world' s energy,. If you haven't noticed, the Bush adm is composed of an oil cartel. What's equally as horrendous as this simple and observable fact is that so many like yourself just don't get it. Instead you waste so much energy and emotion trying to make others look foolish and stupid and believing in lies, when it is precisely yourself who behaves in such a manner. Ever heard of "projection"? Somehow I kinda doubt it.

liberal press. man, you are fucking hopeless, troll

corporate media you mean. get infomed, go here:

fair.org

that is of course, if you kow how to read

David Frum, who recently wrote a little pulp fiction supporting your man recently got on the radio and lauded FAIR as a great organization, that despite its overtly left bias, does great work.

I think this representation, admiting bias and staying true to reporting is the only way to have real good journalism.

So too, agrees another bush admirer.

-I hate to be the one to break the news to you, but the news media I mentioned are liberally biased, and very much so.-
Gosh and I thought they all had a ring in their nose fixed with a stout chain leading to the pentagon.
This didn’t work when Rush said ( ALL THE TIME BECAUSE HE IS A MORON AS ANYONE IS WHO COULD PARROT THE SAME ASININE SWILL) it and it sure doesn’t work here. BE SERIOUS.
I’m sure you can be much more idiomatic.
-That's not the case at all. The upper income groups pay the bulk of taxes collected. The so-called masses pay very little.-
Actually most of the taxes are paid for not by the upper 2% but
by the middle class who can’t afford accountants legal staff, have their control of enterprises with trusts and don’t hold vast wealth in stock. Wanna be? Of course you do.
Ha Ha.
Ha.

As they should because they have more money in the first place." Census Bureau data for 1999 show that households with earnings in the top 20% of all households amassed 49.4% of all income."

And the gap in wealth disparity grows deeper even as their amount of the burden gets lessened according to the Christian Science Monitor

I work with children in working class neighborhoods and see how many jobs these kids parents have. The "poor" make up their dues to society by their labor. They also get dick for social services.

on another topic, I have no real idea as to whether this sort of ad will be affective. The affectivity of an image is ussually a hard thing to measure. It is most affective when an image is a part of a social environment. It is one item among many to help sway emotions and minds.

Good job. I bet you got a few orders of books out of the ad. This is both a sarcastic comment and a kudos. Congrats for making a living off of activism, and also having available info back up your image with information.

"Left and right are anachronistic. There are those who would be bosses and there are those who would not have masters. Im a fiscal conservative, but a social liberal. I am not a fucking reactionary warmonger just because I remember that "progressive" gave us eugenics, and because I see too many traditional commies (central beaurocratics) for my comfort on the left.
You might consider the NOLAN TEST available on the Lib website. Its about freedom, its not about the 18th century map. "

-Sorry, I believe you are wrong. There is a difference between the Left and Right. The problem is your definition of "Left" and "Right" to begin with. The Democratic Party does not represent the "left." They are a Centrist party, which means they favor the same fundamental social welfare cuts and reforms that the Right Wing Republicans favor--but with a few more "safety net" measures.

The true left--the revolutionary left--is opposed to the capitalist system itself and to American Imperialism in general. That is my defintion of the LEFT.

"dear anti
by mike • Friday December 27, 2002 Frit 09:20 AM
I don't know if you were alive in the early 90's, but herr Bush itself stood on the Capitol steps surounded by his henchmen and spouted the words, NEW WORLD Order in his rampage against Nicaragua. Duh. I do know , son, that the NWO is actually the same old WO, and no I don't come from a far right wing prespective regarding this and the UN. You're kinda like Bush adm--you assume too much. Maybe you and he should have a little tete a tete, hmmm?"

-Yes, I was alive in the early 1990s. Go back and read what I said. I said that the so-called "New World Order" is in essence a euphemism for the American Empire. Go read the new National Security Strategy of the USA, or the so-called Bush Doctrine. They all call for and delineate in detail this vision of Pax Americana.

Most of the Anti-NWO types in America are essentially nationalists who claim that Internationalist organizations like the UN are 'taking over the USA."
This is absolute nonsense, and stands reality on its head. In fact, it is the USA which is taking over and manipulating international organizations such as the UN. See the American current manipulation of the "UN Weapons Inspections" process for Iraq the past decade as a primary example.

"ps-and moreover, I don't need a history lesson about the right. The point is, beloved one, the so called Democrats are looking pretty rightist to me--cain't hardly tell one from a "conservative" no mo. They've all been bribed or bullyed o r revelated into succoring the New Old World Order of domination and rule by force. Who the fuck cares what you call it --it's the same negativity. What the right and the so called Dems don't get is that Bush and Co are merely getting started--putting the programs into place. And that's no bull."

-Yes, the Democrats increasingly are no different from the Republicans or the Right Wing in general. I never disputed this fact. But as I mentioned earlier in this message, the Democrats don't represent the LEFT to begin with.

The Left in the USA exists in the political margins and is not represented in the Electoral arena in general. The Left is to be found in the Streets--not the ballot box.
You can find the Left in the antiwar movement and in the anti-capitalist/globalization movement, for example.

What has happened over the past generation--since the 1970s--is that the entire American Political Spectrum has moved towards the Right. Someone like Bill Clinton--who in terms of public policy was farther *Right* than Richard Nixon and Gerald Ford no less--can be demonized as a Liberal or even Socialist (!) by flacks such as Rush Limbaugh.

In essence, the Right Wing in America is completely dominant--at least in terms of Electoral politics. That is why you are increasingly seeing the open Fascism of George W. Bush.

As for Bush Admirer, he should be treated as a relatively harmless troll. Pat him on the head, give him a hard pinch on the cheek, and send him on his way like a good little Troll.

"You're describing the extremist radical left -- people who border on being traitors rather than patriotic Americans.These are folks who go out of their way to politically marginalize themselves. They have zero acceptance by the public at large, and they never will."

This says more about the nature of you American Patriots than anything else. Indeed, a Patriotic American increasingly resembles those Patriotic Germans who supported the Third Reich.

"If the Republicans and the Democrats look the same to you, then it's because your vantage point is so extremely far to the left that you might as well be observing them from Mars. "

The difference between the different factions of the Republi-crat Party are but a "dime's worth of difference." Apparently you mainstream morons are still so desperate to maintain the illusion of political difference--and hence of democracy itself--that you will
shriek at anything that questions this Political Shell game itself.

This is a classic propaganda tactic of what passes for "democracy in the USA." Anything perspective which even slightly deviates from the tightly controlled limits of "acceptable" political debate in the USA is smeared as being too extreme.

To be frank, the truth will always be considered "too extreme" from the perspective of a liar.

You really are a piece of work. Tell me, what is your political platform? What is your solution to the problems facing our country today? You spout off about the faults in the existing system, yet provide no alternatives. Are you suggesting we get rid of the system of government that we have? Are you capable of coming up with a better alternative? I would love to hear about it.

It's easy to bitch, harder to lead.