Congratulations and thank you to participants and volunteers!!

The "Vigil for Peace" this last Saturday at Hollywood and Highland was an incredible success.!

People arrived just after 6.00 pm, brought creative, humorous and very direct placards, banners, t-shirts and performances and stayed until well after 10:30 pm. We got media coverage from both the mainstream and, of course, independent media with estimates ranging from 2,000 to 2,500 people. Again, thanks to all who came and especially those who volunteered.

The great turnout at the vigil shows the real potential for making the January 11 demonstration the largest in Los Angeles since the Vietnam War. Let's make that our goal!

We look forward to seeing those of you who couldn't make it on December 14, at the MASSIVE MARCH & DEMONSTRATION in Los Angeles on January 11th. It takes place at 11:00 a.m. at Broadway & Olympic.

WE NEED VOLUNTEERS!

To help make the January 11th demo the amplification of our Los Angeles voices for peace and justice we have a lot of work to do in many different areas. You can call us at 213 487 2368, or come to the TUESDAY NIGHT VOLUNTEER MEETINGS that take place each week at 7:00 p.m. The address is 422 S Western Avenue (between 4th and 5th). We have a great group of core volunteers and would love for you to take part.

DONATIONS & FUND RAISING

There are a lot of costs for organizing these actions. Printing leaflets, mailings, banners & posters, sound and stage equipment, permits, office rental, basic office expenses, etc. all add up to shocking amounts. We work from our own pockets and the generosity of others. If you can contribute, have friends who can contribute, or know of any organizations or foundations who would be able to help, please let us know. Tax deductible donations of $50 or more can be made at www.progressunity.org

HOLIDAY WISH LIST

Here are some particular ways that donors can help:

Contribute toward the purchase of a hi-speed photocopier. Our copier has seen its last days, and we can't afford to let it slow us down. We're negotiating price for a new one, but we have to raise the money first.

Help sponsor a bus to the January 18th demonstration in San Francisco.

Become part of the A.N.S.W.E.R. Supporters' program. We can make the arrangements for a monthly tax deductible contribution to be sent to A.N.S.W.E.R. from your checking account or charge card automatically.

ANSWER is not the answer and giving money to any of their front groups will only raise money to send Richard Becker on another vacation to North Korea. Spend your money on another peace group, but don't waste it on Stalinists.

Red-baiting went out of style in the 80s, dummy. Sorry to be so
ageist, but your diss of the ANSWER coalition is about as tired
as Reagan's ass (which I would assume you used to lick since
your so savy with anti-commie rhetoric).

Someone... probably Marc Cooper of the L.A. Meekly, wrote:

"ANSWER is not the answer and giving money to any of their front groups will only raise money to send Richard Becker on another vacation to North Korea. Spend your money on another peace group, but don't waste it on Stalinists."

You know... it's really tiresome that so-called "anti-authoritarians" have so little to do these days except to snipe at the organizations (ANSWER & NOT IN OUR NAME), that have almost single handedly organized massive and effective peace demonstrations against the coming onslaught.

The demo in Hollywood was AGAINST the Bush war on Iraq... and thousands came to express themselves. There was not a single sign praising North Korea or calling for a Stalinist regime to be built in the good 'ol US of A.

It seems that red baiting has come back in fashion... only you'd expect the practice to come from right-wing zeolots. As for future anti-war demonstrations organized by ANSWER or NOT IN MY NAME... I'll be there, and so will many other thousands. Loser "anti-authoritarians" with an anti-communist chip on their shoulders can stay home and sulk.

ANSWER and NION have been real spark plugs for the peace movement, for that they have my thanks.

"My estimate is that approximately zero citizens changed their views."

----------------------
"A fanatic is one who can't change his mind and won't change the subject."
-Winston Churchill

Since most people are not fanatic right-wingers like you, BA, you are incorrect.

Most people change thier minds about these things over time. They listen to a friend, a teacher, read something in a magazine, see something on TV, etc.. What a big rally does is important. It lets people who ARE opposed to the war know that they are not alone. This is the catalist that lets people feel free to talk to thier co-workers, their friends, family etc. Someone who does not like the idea of the war may think that they are in the minority and alone and will feel frightened to speak out. Once they drive by thousands of people holding banners and marching, it emboldens them into speaking out themselves. THEN minds will change as millions of kitchen table discussions, breakroom discussions, bus stop discussions, church and union discussions break out all around the world. This is the only way to fight tyranny, as we sure as hell are not going to get much air time.

Listen, Apache, dissing Stalinists does not make one a lover of Ronald Reagan. The truth is that many now see little difference between the two...

Speaking of yawning Bush admirer... you're boring us to death!

>> dissing Stalinists does not make one a lover of Ronald Reagan. The truth is that many now see little difference between the two...

I hate to be the one to break your bubble but let's examine what you've said here.

Stalin was a mass murderer of his own people, much like Saddam. Ronald Reagan didn't do anything like that. Try to get a grip.

Reagan cut the marginal tax rates from out of sight to merely obnoxious. He's my favorite President up to now. But GWB is doing very well and has the potential to knock Reagan off the top rung.

Clinton, of course, permanently occupies the bottom rung.

At the end of the day there WILL be a war on IRAQ and all your crocodile tears can't change that.

START THE WAR NOW IN MY NAME!!!!

"At the end of the day there WILL be a war on IRAQ and all your crocodile tears can't change that.

START THE WAR NOW IN MY NAME!!!!"

Are you joinin' up?

I'm curious about people that come on these boards to troll around. Is someone paying them to do this? Are they sadists?

thank you for stating the demonstrations' purpose so well. I live in the very republican Orange County, CA, and I was feeling like the only person against the war before I saw all of the demonstrations on the news.

I’m sorry that this time around our president has morals and a backbone unlike his predecessor. One thing that I love to inform you of, is that you can rally up as many people as you want. Because the rest of silent America will sleep comfortably at night because Bush is our president and not a socialist representative who would represent the appeasement strategies you long for. It also makes me feel good that your protests are insignificant, the majority of Americans feel we need to go into Iraq, and based on your anti-American publicity that will ride Bush into a second term!! So, thank you, even as disgusted as I am that you are permitted to call yourselves Americans, it’s your plain ignorance that is gong to help keep Bush in office. One last fun thing for me to inform you of, we are going to liberate Iraq, and the Iraqi people are going to be better off. The world WILL be a safer place THANKS to PRESIDENT BUSH. GOD BLESS PRESIDENT BUSH, GOD BLESS OUR SOLDIERS, WHO ARE ABOUT TO PROTECT OUR FREEDOMS, AND GOD BLESS AMERICA.

uh Tom, bring something besides refried spam
to the table.
( the preceeding message brought to you by
MOCKINGBIRDnets.)

Lets see - ummm - would that be the morals of the man who dodged the draft by getting a cushy Texas Air National Guard Slot with Daddies influence and then could not even fulfill that commitment?
Or was it the man who took an Oath to support and defend the Constitution and then signed 2 bills (the un-Patriot Act and Vaterland Sekurity Act) that violate the Constitution.

Please provide a valid example of what you are talking about.

And then there are the resident weasels.
Mindless, robotic, senile.
As the Bush Admirer is a prime
example. Others show up between gun shows
or divorces.

“Our president has morals and a backbone unlike his predecessor. “

Is this like when he profited from dumping his holdings in Harken Energy and then filed the paperwork with the S.E.C. 8 months of the trade? He then claimed he had filed the paperwork and that the S.E.C. must of lost it. The dog ate my homework.

“When Bush filed late on April 7,1987, SEC filings show he had purchased another 80,000 shares on March 10, 1987. But strangely, two weeks later, an April 22 filing noted that the 80,000-share purchase was backdated to Dec. 10, 1986. When questioned by the media, Bush's attorney said it was the same 80,000 shares but he could not explain the discrepancy regarding the purchase dates or why Bush even reported the trade two times.” Tom Flocco as published on Worldnetdaily 18 February 2000.

“The difference between an honorable man and a moral man is that an honorable many regrets a discreditable act even when it has worked, and he is in no danger of being caught.” H.L. Mencken

The Dog Ate my Homework: http://www.buzzflash.com/contributors/2002/07/08_Harken.html

“America will sleep comfortably at night because Bush is our president and not a socialist representative who would represent the appeasement strategies you long for.”

I would sleep more comfortably if he would honor his Oath to the Constitution.
What appeasement is this? Are there not inspectors on the ground in Iraq working to verify compliance? Have any of the Sites named by our Government, all visited by the Inspectors, turned up any evidence of banned weapons? No.
If Saddam makes an attempt to attack the United States I am all for squishing him like a bug. No evidence exists that he intends to or has made any past attempt to do so.


“America will sleep comfortably at night because Bush is our president and not a socialist representative who would represent the appeasement strategies you long for.”

A hollow boast and you know it. The people who have turned out are from all walks of life and both ends of the political spectrum.

The Iraqi people are going to be better off. The world WILL be a safer place THANKS to PRESIDENT BUSH.

If you consider dead better than being under Hussein’s rule. A point the long suffering Iraqi people might debate.

Even Republican businessmen are against this war. It is hardly just the bunch of lefties and hippies Bush Admirer and his kin wish it were.

If our government truly believed that Hussein has these terrible weapons they would also know that the first thing he'd do with them, if attacked by the US, is use them on our forces - or on Israel. Since neither of those things are things we want (I assume) we must be fairly confident that Hussein doesn't have them at all!

After all, we're being very careful not to upset North Korea, though I don't image the rightwingers would weep much if San Francisco was nuked.

Just like how liberals go out to march on the street to push their views we post on bords that we stumble across. difference is that i ould not bring myself to march with the KKK and the reinstate biblical law brigade. seems that the liberals have no qualms about that sort of thing.
Seems people like ANSWER share platforms with people who are anti semitic and who intentionally promote "war" (for example being palistinian does not excuse antisematism nor does it excludes military activities you support from being considered a war).

Kassia - Yup your using the fact that some one who opposes the war for different reasons that you oppose it as justification for your argument. Thats like saying because the KKK hate blacks we should have no refugees from africa.

Also I note that you are accusing US of cowardice dispite the fact that it is sending its forces into battle(youve got to spend a lot more than two lines to explain your way out of that one)

As for Noth Korea it is surrounded by four countries that could crush it even if it did have nuclear weapons, and those countries dont particularly want the US fighting a war over it yet. Also there are dipolmatic reasons within the UN as well as a ceasefire treaty that iraq seems to have failed to live up to that make North Korea less politically vulnerable.
And finally there is an easy political exit probably via some aid and a non agression pact if it gets too hairy.
Finally you seem to think that the Bush would be OK with a nuke in Sanfransisco? dont say that sort of thing unless you mean it seriously. nd if you do mean it seriously dont you think that might jsut slightly damage him and his relitives trust funds besides the fact that he (and jsut about every human alive besides the dear leader) might actually care about a million odd americans dying.

Fuck you grandpa, we aint going down without a fight, we will never allow the commies like you to win

Commies???Are you kidding me. At least update your pathetic rhetoric,Red Bottomed Whatever. I thought the Cold War was over,dumb ass. Except the one you have in your bed everynight. Unless Chuck Heston was there and you could both fondle your guns together.
"Whoops, sorry Chuck, mine went off a little too soon!!

Do you read me Scottie?

“Also I note that you are accusing US of cowardice despite the fact that it is sending its forces into battle(you've got to spend a lot more than two lines to explain your way out of that one)”

If I may - I can name that tune in one line:

The CHICKENHAWK BASTARDS giving the Marching Orders aren’t going to be able to participate in the festivities - AGAIN.


“As for Noth Korea it is surrounded by four countries that could crush it even if it did have nuclear weapons, and those countries dont particularly want the US fighting a war over it yet. Also there are dipolmatic reasons within the UN as well as a ceasefire treaty that iraq seems to have failed to live up to that make North Korea less politically vulnerable.”

Please explain in what way is it that Iraq has failed to live up to the Cease Fire? Shooting at U.S. and U.K. Aircraft bombing their CIVILIAN infrastructure? Is it all the weapons Sites the U.S. and U.K. have identified - none of which when inspected yielded any illegal weaponry? Contrary to both the Geneva Conventions (which prohibit attacks against Civilian targets) and the terms of the U.N. Cease Fire - which makes no mention, gives no authorization for, “No Fly Zones” - illegally enforced by the U.S. and U.K.. Bhoutrous Bhoutrous-Gali has made recent public statements to that effect. The U.S. and U.K. have carried out over 200 illegal bombing missions in Iraq since the Cease Fire was signed.

“And finally there is an easy political exit probably via some aid and a non aggression pact if it gets too hairy. “

After all they don’t have 30% of the Worlds known Oil Reserves so who gives a shit?

“Finally you seem to think that the Bush would be OK with a nuke in Sanfransisco? dont say that sort of thing unless you mean it seriously. nd if you do mean it seriously dont you think that might jsut slightly damage him and his relitives trust funds besides the fact that he (and jsut about every human alive besides the dear leader) might actually care about a million odd americans dying.”

I wish I thought he did. But I don’t. I think his kind cares only about their own self-aggrandizement. If it took a City to further his plans (and he thought he could get without getting caught) well, as John McGloughlin would say: “Bye-bye.”

As for the Moron of the month Club “Red Hater”:
“Fuck you grandpa, we ain't going down without a fight, we will never allow the commies like you to win”

Such eloquence should not go without note. But I guess I’ll just have to restrain myself.

>The CHICKENHAWK BASTARDS giving the Marching Orders aren’t going to be able to participate in the festivities - AGAIN.

-but they certainly will pay with their jobs if they screw it up unlike Iraq the US has accountability - if they are truly like you suggest impeachment and other less pleasant punishments are in order. fortunately however you are wrong.

>Please explain in what way is it that Iraq has failed to live up to the Cease Fire?

The cease fire was a "do everything we say and we wont kill you" document. This is natural as you wouldn’t expect the Allies to have negotiated a "you can have Poland back" treaty with the Nazi so you cant expect it with Iraq. Basically Iraq made it impossible (according to the inspectors) for the inspectors to do their job. That is the breach - everything else is academic.

>Contrary to both the Geneva Conventions (which prohibit attacks against Civilian targets)

- the Geneva convention prohibits them INTENTIONALY targeting civilian targets if it was as you implied it would outlaw war altogether except maybe by US smart bombs on assassination missions - and then only sometimes.

> After all they don’t have 30% of the Worlds known Oil Reserves so who gives a shit?

hmm so you are accusing the US of preventing itself from accessing oil as a strategic policy?
ok ill spell it out to you. US could buy Iraq’s oil and Iraq would be happy to sell. but it doesn’t.. why? well the reason certainly isn’t oil. Instead US wants to invade Iraq and probably cripple Iraq's ability to produce oil after denying the oil companies access to the bulk of its oil for the last decade.. At this stage Shell and co are probably telling him he is a moron. but aren’t they your mortal enemies who always lie?

>If it took a City to further his plans (and he thought he could get without getting caught) well, as John McGloughlin would say: “Bye-bye.”

- well fortunately he cant get away with it - but thanks to you saกam and kim and shining path Hamas and the Chinese communists etc can. Nice one bro.

To your first rebuttal - gosh they might lose their jobs? Oh, how awful - particularly after thousands of people have lost their lives - but not them no chance of that - or their children - or their henchmen’s children. I am blinded by your insight.

Which time of inspections are you talking about. If you talking about the ones in before Clinton’s bombing they were withdrawn so that they would not be there when the bombs started falling. Richard Butler the C.I.A. connected head of the last inspection regimen has admitted that they had well over 95% of any remaining banned armaments destroyed. Saddam has been bending over backwards to cooperate so as to remove any justification for attacking. And if you recall back months ago Duhbya was saying that all we wanted was the inspectors back in. When Saddam double-crossed him and did allow them back in he had to invent another rationale. Now that inspections have shown Saddam does not have much of anything the rationale is morphing into “it’s God’s will that we “liberate” the Iraqi people. If you are too blind to reason it out for yourself you too stupid to take part in a debate. Otherwise you are inventing provocations and swallowing the PR line justifying the “Big Iraq Attack”.

According to Amnesty International and UNESCO it would appear that they have been doing just that - targeting Civilian Infrastructure. Further the U.S. Government used the sanctions as a justification for blocking Iraq’s purchase of replacement equipment for their Water Distribution and Sewage Treatment systems. But Cheney was able to sell them 23.8 million dollars in Oil Field equipment. Go Figure?

Oh, spare me. Your counter argument on the Oil issue rings just as hollow the hundredth time I heard it as the first. I am not going to waste my time - if you are so deluded I cannot hope to change your mind in a short post. Do your homework.
Start with the fact that the U.S. approached India 8 months before 911 to get their support for attacking Afghanistan.

You slay me - “If we can’t bomb Iraq back into the stone age that means you support the Boogie Man”. Get real. No clear and present danger exists which would justify a U.S. War of Conquest in Iraq. I am not responsible for your paranoid delusions and your sycophantic, and childlike acceptance, of every bit of PR PsyOps put out to justify the war.

gosh they might lose their jobs? Oh, how awful -

- if you are a person who believes that people require aditional motivation to do things you presumably assume that taxes should be around zero because who wants to work now with taxes so high? You dont need a death penalty over someones head jsut to make them do somthing. Still its concevable that he could get it anyway if things went TERRIBLY wrong. of course they wont.

Saddam has been bending over backwards

South africa didnt have much trouble.. why does your beloved sadam have trouble?

And if you recall back months ago Duhbya was saying that all we wanted was the inspectors back in.

- we being the US public. The US public changed its mind.

PR line justifying the “Big Iraq Attack”.

I think iraq isnt a big problem they are weak now and if we were to be really cynical - they can only kill people we dont particularly like anyway. The big problem is you. Just like it is not Germany's invasion of the rhineland that was the problem it was the policy of appeasement.

According to Amnesty International and UNESCO it would appear that they have been doing just that - targeting Civilian Infrastructure.

I dont know where you got that from - can you read the US military's minds? who knows maybe amnesty international (of all the unreliable sources with vested interests) can. you should investigate how NGO's create self financing lies.

Further the U.S. Government used the sanctions

probably some realpolitik anyway whats your suggestion/ no accountability (for attacking kuwait) or blanket sanctions? Lets make Iraq our buddy pay them remuneration and hope they clean up all those pesky muslim states eh?

Your counter argument on the Oil issue rings just as hollow the hundredth time I heard it as the first

I think maybe it is you that needs to do homework - are you saying oil prices have gone down as a result of US's policies towards iraq? basically that is all you need to know. sure they are involved in influencing opec etc but none of that is relevant to this as this only reduces their influence.

Start with the fact that the U.S. approached India 8 months before 911 to get their support for attacking Afghanistan.

you should start using sources more like this one "http://mckinneysucks.blogspot.com/2002_06_01_mckinneysucks_archive.html#78095719";
Besides are you arguing that the US govt has incredible foresight? that they are much smarter than the general public?

You seem to attribute the US with god like powers to build webs of deceit and then complain that you are smarter and they are not smart enough to deal with some simple politics. -nice one jehova.

You slay me -

Do you realy think the US could get away with a "conquest"? Maybe they could set up a normal government (as oppose to one that hates the US). besides dont you guys all argue that that war of conquest wont work and will inspire anti us sentiment? hey who knows it might bring about your workers revolution.. maybe you should be all for it.

Diogenes isn't an anarchist.
I've never seen anything so far that indicated he
wants a revolution in order to address the evil loose
on this land. If anything, he seems to want the
return of the rule of
law this land used to be proud of.
Equal rights and blind justice, bare breasts and all.
Revolution is a last resort of desperate people and times.
It represents the rule of the shotgun and noose and
it finds fertile ground in repression and injustice.

I am whole heartedly with him (and you I presume) "Equal rights and blind justice, bare breasts and all" are truely noble (er well at least plesant) goals. Also I agree that revolution is amongst the least plesant of options in fact is usually LESS plesant than all out war.

I guess we just differ on what is the most practical way to achieve these goals (here peace or military pressure).

Incidentally - It seems that the term anarchist has been co-opted by the extreem left when it really should only exist for extreem libitarians (who say "the poor should die because they are weak"). Being "left" implies a certain moral background that contadicts the term Anarchist.

Conquest? The US has been an imperial power for a little over a hundred years. Start right before the turn of the 20century, look to Cuba, Phillippines, etc.

Don't worry, be happy. Imperial power is not as bad as some say.

A.N.S.W.E.R sucks the life from the anti-war movement.

death to the demon A.NSWER

Don't you all think that you should get jobs and support this great land that was founded on freedom? As for the IRaqi people they don't have this freedom, just like we didn't have freedom from the UK. If it weren't for the French helping us out we would have never been free. That is all we are doing over there, FREEING people that need help being freed!!!!