December 19, 2002

Hundreds Are Held After Visits to INS

Mideast boys and men living in the Southland were complying with an order to register.

By Megan Garvey, Martha Groves and Henry Weinstein, Times Staff Writers


Hundreds of men and boys from Middle Eastern countries were arrested by federal immigration officials in Southern California this week when they complied with orders to appear at INS offices for a special registration program.

The arrests drew thousands of people to demonstrate Wednesday in Los Angeles.

Immigration and Naturalization Service spokesmen refused Wednesday to say how many people the agency had detained, what the specific charges were or how many were still being held. But officials speaking anonymously said they would not dispute estimates by lawyers for detainees that the number across Southern California was 500 to 700. In Los Angeles, up to one-fourth of those who showed up to register were jailed, lawyers said.

The number of people arrested in this region appears to have been considerably larger than elsewhere in the country, perhaps because of the size of the Southland's Iranian population. Monday's registration deadline applied to males 16 and older from Iran, Iraq, Libya, Sudan and Syria. Men from 13 other nations, mostly in the Mideast and North Africa, are required to register next month.

Many of those arrested, according to their lawyers, had already applied for green cards and, in some instances, had interviews scheduled in the near future. Although they had overstayed their visas, attorneys argue, their clients had already taken steps to remedy the situation and were following the regulations closely.

"These are the people who've voluntarily gone" to the INS, said Mike S. Manesh of the Iranian American Lawyers Assn. "If they had anything to do with terrorism, they wouldn't have gone."

Immigration officials acknowledged Wednesday that many of those taken into custody this week have status-adjustment applications pending that have not yet been acted on.

"The vast majority of people who are coming forward to register are currently in legal immigration status," said local INS spokeswoman Virginia Kice. "The people we have taken into custody ... are people whose non-immigrant visas have expired."

The large number of Iranians among the detainees has angered many in the area's Iranian communities, who organized a demonstration Wednesday at the federal building in Westwood.

At the rally, which police officials estimated drew about 3,000 protesters at its peak, signs bore such sentiments as "What Next? Concentration Camps?" and "Detain Terrorists Not Innocent Immigrants."

The arrests have generated widespread publicity, mostly unfavorable, in the Middle East, said Khaled Dawoud, a correspondent for Al Ahram, one of Egypt's largest dailies. He questioned State Department official Charlotte Beers about the detentions Wednesday after a presentation she made at the National Press Club in Washington. Egyptians are not included in the registration requirement.

Beers, undersecretary of State for public diplomacy and public affairs, was presenting examples of a U.S. outreach campaign for the Middle East, which includes images of Muslims leading happy lives here. Dawoud asked how that image squared with the "humiliating" arrests in recent days.

"I don't think there is any question that the change in visa policy is going to be seen by some as difficult and, indeed — what was the word you used? — humiliating," Beers said. But, she added, President Bush has said repeatedly that he considers "his No. 1 ... job to be the protection of the American people."

Relatives and lawyers of those arrested locally challenge that rationale for the latest round of detentions.

One attorney, who said he saw a 16-year-old pulled from the arms of his crying mother, called it madness to believe that the registration requirements would catch terrorists.

"His mother is 6 1/2 months pregnant. They told the mother he is never going to come home — she is losing her mind," said attorney Soheila Jonoubi, who spent Wednesday amid the chaos of the downtown INS office attempting to determine the status of her clients.

Jonoubi said that the mother has permanent residence status and that her husband, the boy's stepfather, is a U.S. citizen. The teenager came to the country in July on a student visa and was on track to gain permanent residence, the lawyer said.

Many objected to the treatment of those who showed up for the registration. INS ads on local Persian radio stations and in other ethnic media led many to expect a routine procedure. Instead, the registration quickly became the subject of fear as word spread that large numbers of men were being arrested.

Lawyers reported crowded cells with some clients forced to rest standing up, some shackled and moved to other locations in the night, frigid conditions in jail cells — all for men with no known criminal histories.

Shawn Sedaghat, a Sherman Oaks attorney, said he and his partner, Michelle Taheripour, represent more than 40 people who voluntarily went to register and were detained.

Some, he said, were hosed down with cold water before finding places to sleep on the concrete floors of cells.

Lucas Guttentag, who heads the West Coast office of the American Civil Liberties Union's immigrant rights project, fears the wave of arrests is "a prelude to much more widespread arrests and deportations."

"The secrecy gives rise to obvious concerns about what the INS is doing and whether people's rights are being respected and whether the problems that arose in the aftermath of 9/11 are being repeated now," he said.

Many at Wednesday's protest said they took the day off work to join the rally, because they were shocked by the treatment.

"I came to this country over 40 years ago and got drafted in the Army, and I thought if I die it's for a good cause, defending freedom, democracy and the Constitution," said George Hassan, 65, from the San Fernando Valley.

"Oppressed people come here because of that democracy, that freedom, that Constitution. Now our president has apparently allowed the INS vigilantes to step outside the Constitution."

Ramona Ripston, executive director of the ACLU of Southern California, called the detentions doubly disturbing because "a lot of the Iranians are Jews who fled Iran because of persecution, and now they are undergoing similar persecution here.... This is just terrible."

Attorney Ban Al-Wardi, who saw 14 of her 20 clients arrested when she went with them to the registration, said that although everyone understands the need to protect the nation against terrorist attacks, the government's recent action went too far.

"All of our fundamental civil rights have been violated by these actions," she said. "I don't know how far this is going to go before people start speaking up. This is a very dangerous precedent we are setting. What's to stop Americans from being treated like this when they travel overseas?"

Times staff writers Greg Krikorian and Teresa Watanabe in Los Angeles and Johanna Neuman and Ricardo Alonso-Zaldivar in Washington contributed to this report.

This brings to mind a scene from a documentary recently aired on Greek television about the US-sponsored Greek Junta (21st April 1967-24th July 1974).

It’s a snippet from some press conference the coup leader Stylianos Pattakos is conducting with foreign press....

A journo shouts out to him in English: How many people have been arrested since December 13?!

sp barks: Den tous metrame! Exoumai apantisei! [We don’t count them! We have answered!]

His rather more laconic translator: We have answered. We do...have not counted...

sp then adds: Den einai kali erotisi katholou! [That’s not a good question at all!]

So the problem is that the INS is enforcing existing laws on people who knew of these laws and expressly agreed to follow them and had every opportunity to comply with them and yet did not?

No, it seems as though many complied with the law and the INS lost paperwork making it seem as though they hadn't.

That and selective enforcement.

and what do you mean by selective enforcement. That's quite differant from the "lost" paperwork. Does this mean that these people WERE in violation?

You don't believe the "lost paperwork" thing?
Check out this website then.
<http://www.fcw.com/fcw/articles/2002/0422/web-ins2-04-22-02.asp>
Or this one from Congresswoman Roybal-Allard
<http://www.house.gov/roybal-allard/press/pr020425-ins.htm>

The INS is notorius for loosing paperwork.

No, selective enforcement is one issue, lost paperwork is another.

Yeah, it is possible that some people didn't do the paperwork.
But all the cases Ive heard reported on NPR state otherwise.

Selective enforcement occurs when a people are singled out for exemplary enforcement- arbitrarilly made example of.
The INS does not have this special registration program with all imigrants of all nations, not even all arab nations. These Iranian/Americans claim that they were singled out because of the particular relationship between their former country and the US.

Duh, now you are figuring it out.
Its not the Arab or moslem conection, its the state supported TERRORIST connection. Hence the inclusion of North Korea and not of Morroco. Its not a moslem thing at all other than a correlation between a good number of official terrorist states and moslem.

I am glad you understand now.

There is a flaw in your arguement my friend.

Former Moroccan residents are not being asked to be fingerprinted. I guess there is no evidence that Morocan citizens are involved in Terrorism.

Former Saudi Arabian Citizens are not being asked to comply with the program either. I'm waiting to see if you are going to argue that Saudi Citizens have not been involved in recent terrorist activities, and that therefor they should not be subject to this program.

That, I think, is where the case of selective enforcement is- that the politically expedient thing is being done, not the correct thing. If this program is meant to keep tabs on potential terrorists, why is the INS not being asked to keep tabs on Saudis?

Easy decisions are made, not the correct decisions.

(I personaly don't think that blanket survailance over entire nationalities is effective policy at all. In this global era, ideology need not hold to an individual race or nation. But that is a different arguement then the one we are having.)

I

The INS is already over-burdened so they revert to making examples and plaing cover-your-ass (CYA). They can't possible enforce their witch-hunt on all imigrants of brown complexion. Sooo, verily, I say unto you, prepare to see a backlash of peoples, not necesarily only of Iraqui, Irani, Sirian, Libian or Sudanese descent to infiltrate the US's borders, but also be prepared to see Egyptians, Pakistanis, Afghanis, Saudis, Morrocans and any other disgruntled such infiltrate US's borders posing as Mexicans, Guatemalans, Cubans, Dominicans, Salvadorians, Venezuelans, etc.... What the heck! In the eyes of the common-American all these peoples look the same and it is often the social context that identifies them in American eyes. That the American public is generally socially and ethnically unaware and tend to jump to conclusions on one's background based on the social context, clothing and accent that is presented. To Americans, most "browns" are seen under a similar light. This is the reason why during the Washington-area sniper attacks, two Latinos were the ones that were quickly surrounded aprehended and then deported. This is the reason why Native Americans can get mowed down due to mistaken identity by some ignorant redneck. This is why Sikhs are shot because they wear a "rag" on their head. This is because they all look the same to the general American public. Brown-is-brown-is-brown... So, envision Osama crossing the Rio Grande wearing a giant sombrero, now calling himself Jose Sanchez. Envision Abdul jumping off the next boat that hits Miami from Cuba seeking political asylum now calling himself Juan Martinez. The INS would never catch these. They can silently work at plantations or bodegas until they have amassed a large enough number to strike or complete a mission. Not yet though. Just wait as you make a political scene and make examples out of innocent peoples. Others might not so inocent. Those less inocent are NOT the ones voluntarily tuning themselves into dragnets that arrest and indefinitely hold and or deport immigrants because of their national origin.

GO SALMAN Shove it down their ignorant throats. Some people, like the guy who is sticking up for the INS (JHONSTONE, BUSHADMIRER, & THE CHICKEN THAT WON'T DISCLOSE HIS NAME)need to 1st go to school so that we can congratulate THEM and not YOU on THEIR spelling. In the meantime they should get a job at Burger King and save up their money so that they can travel possibly out of the trailer park they live in and maybe afford a trip abroad so that they can really see the world around them and what it is about.
KEEP UP THE GOOD WORK!!!!!!!

"The INS should be interrogating immigrants from Islamic countries. "

==========================================


Budget truck was pulled over in Oak Harbor, Wash., last Tuesday near the Whidbey Island Naval Air Station and found to have traces of TNT on the gearshift and traces of RDX plastic explosive on the steering wheel, Fox News has learned.


Traces of explosives were also found on one of the truck's two occupants.

The FBI, the Immigration and Naturalization Service, the Bureau of Alcohol, Tobacco and Firearms, and local police are all investigating.

Government officials said the roadside stop was so close to the naval air station that military personnel took part in the initial arrest and naval intelligence has also been involved in the subsequent investigation.

Shortly after midnight on May 7, federal officials say local police pulled the vehicle over for speeding. Documents read to Fox News indicate that the driver and passenger told local police they were delivering furniture from California but that authorities doubted the story because of the early morning hour.

A bomb-sniffing dog first detected explosives on one of the men and inside the truck. High-tech equipment was used later to confirm the presence of TNT and RDX plastic explosive.

Documents read to Fox News indicate that both driver and passenger were Israeli nationals. Investigators say a roadside check of the national database of immigration records indicated that one of the men had not entered the country legally, and the other was in violation of his visa. Both men were taken into custody for immigration violations.

At 7:30 that morning local police were notified that the BATF and FBI had tested the truck and found traces of explosives on the steering wheel and gear shift.

Officials say no other charges of been filed against the driver and passenger and an investigation is ongoing.

Authorities say records for the Budget truck do not indicate any recent rental for the purposes of transporting explosives, which would require special permits.

http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,52681,00.htm

==========================================

JDL pair charged in bombing plot
A lawmaker's offices and a mosque were targeted, U.S. alleges.
By Laura Mecoy -- Bee Los Angeles Bureau
December 13, 2001

LOS ANGELES -- The confrontational chairman of the Jewish Defense League and a follower were charged Wednesday with plotting to blow up a Culver City mosque and the offices of Rep. Darrell Issa, a San Diego congressman of Arab descent.

Irv Rubin, 52, and a member of the militant group, Earl Krugel, 56, were arrested Tuesday after a confidential informant delivered the last component of the bomb -- 5 pounds of explosive powder -- to Krugel's home, U.S. Attorney John S. Gordon said Wednesday.

FBI agents said they uncovered the plot after the source, a JDL member who had committed crimes for the group in the past, told them of the bombing plans and agreed to wear recording devices to meetings with Rubin and Krugel.

U.S. Magistrate Judge Victor Kenton ordered Rubin and Krugel held without bail Wednesday afternoon, saying they posed a danger to the community.
--
http://makeashorterlink.com/?F27E118D2
==========================================


TAMPA - Muslims expressed fears for their safety but appealed for calm as investigators tried Saturday to determine whether a Seminole foot doctor accused of amassing weapons to attack mosques and Islamic schools was acting alone.
``If you're afraid, stay home,'' said Mohammad Cooper, a Muslim leader who traveled from Lakeland to attend an afternoon gathering and news conference at the Islamic Society of Tampa Bay Area Mosque.

``But do not hurt innocent people. You arm yourself with the Koran.''

Authorities stumbled upon an astonishing array of weapons inside the town home of podiatrist Robert Goldstein, 37, Thursday evening after receiving a complaint that he was arguing with his wife, Kristi, 28.

After coaxing Goldstein out of the home, Pinellas County deputies discovered about 20 homemade bombs, a pair of rocket launchers, dozens of high- power rifles and an antipersonnel mine.

They also retrieved a three- page battle plan that laid out in intricate detail a mission to blow up what appears to be a local Islamic educational center. The writing includes at least the first names of two other people.

http://www.tampatribune.com/MGADOK3FA5D.html
==========================================


Five Men Detained As Suspected Conspirators

Eight hours after terrorists struck Manhattan's tallest skyscrapers, police in Bergen County detained five men who they said were found carrying maps linking them to the blasts. The five men, who were in a van stopped on Route 3 in East Rutherford around 4:30 p.m., were being questioned by police but had not been charged with any crime late Tuesday.

However, sources close to the investigation said they found other evidence linking the men to the bombing plot. "There are maps of the city in the car with certain places highlighted," the source said. "It looked like they're hooked in with this. It looked like they knew what was going to happen when they were at Liberty State Park."

Sources also said that bomb-sniffing dogs reacted as if they had detected explosives. The FBI seized the van for further testing, authorities said.
--Bergen Record, September 12, 2001
http://makeashorterlink.com/?N14E158D2

to Nurface: it is interesting to see the type of conclusions you jump to based simply on the fact that you disagree with someones opinion. Its a bit sad that have to resort to a type of name calling to get your point across and also that for some reason you think being poor and living in a trailer makes a person stupid. A bit arrogant if you ask me. For your information, I have lived overseas in three Asian countries for a total of 12 years and travel internationally monthly.

Its precisely this time spent overseas that has shaped my opinion on the INS registration. (and, I'm SOOO sorry that I don't have spell check on my IMC text enterer.

I don't think this registration of aliens can be as neatly packaged as you think it can:

1) It is not the present administration's attack on immigrants - Pres Bush has long pushed for a very liberal amnesty policy.
2) Its not anti-moslem - it includes a non-moslem country and does not include all moslem countries.
3) It includes no new laws - merely the enforcement of existing laws for non-citizens. And again, these are laws that the people concerned were aware of and agreed to follow when they requested entry to the US.
4) Regulated immigration is NOT anti-immigrant any more than regulating driving makes someone anti car. Regulated immigration will, in fact, make it easier for immigrants in the US by freeing people from explotative II wages.

OK OK fine
the INS can do whatever it wants. arrest people whenever they want whereever they want. The US can bomb whoever they want whenever they want etc... if the US government wants to protect the country yes then it is a very very veyr good and effective policy to jail anybody who isnt white. and nobody can stop them. but the bottom line is that because of this... americans can no longer say "AMERICA IS THE BEACON LIGHT OF HOPE, FREEDOM AND JUSTICE FOR THE WORLD" because that is obviously all bullshit now. (presumed innocent until proven guilty? my ass... if you have coloured skin... go die - is the message now)

OK OK fine
"the INS can do whatever it wants. arrest people whenever they want whereever they want."
No, no, no. Of course not. No one is arguing this. The INS can, however, enforce existing laws, known to and agreed to by those violating them.

"The US can bomb whoever they want whenever they want etc... "
What in the world are you talking about? What does this have to do with requiring aliens to register?

"if the US government wants to protect the country yes then it is a very very veyr good and effective policy to jail anybody who isnt white. and nobody can stop them."
Well, I don't think many will agree with you here. First, this is a silly statement. Second, if you want to get all racist about it (you bring this up) sematic races are generally considered 'white' by people like you for whom race matters a great deal. You should revisit the argument - the argument was that these are 'religion based' restrictions, not racial. With religion shown to not be the factor (citizens of countries recognized to sponsor terrorism is the basis) I guess its normal to jump to the next card - race.

my previous statements were not meant to be taken literally, i was merely exaggerating just to show how ridiculous the situation has become. However, your comments regarding state-sponsored terrorism have caused me to change my opinion on the matter. I now see, as president Bush does, that Iran is indeed an “evil” country. After all, ALL, and I mean ALL Iranis work day and night in their attempts to concoct ways in which to cause the “clouds of doom” to gather and “rain death and destruction” upon America. I mean its not like the evil Iranis have anything better to do like work so that they may feed their families or even have fun! For they don’t like fun... or freedom... it is reflected in the hundreds and hundreds of thousands of terrorist attacks committed against the free world by the Iranis in the past decade in which hundreds of millions have been killed. I even heard that the Iranis don’t actually need to eat to survive. Indeed they simply survive off the self-satisfaction they experience as a result of their evil desires! It appears they are all under the control of the Ayatollah who through mind control forces his desires upon his subjects! Therefore the logical step to take is to jail ALLLL Iranis in the US because they have hidden evil instincts. Whats more is that it is written in the law that INS is allowed to do just that! Amazing! And since everything that is written in the law is Correct and Just!... Free drinks for everyone... its on the constitution! WHATS THAT?! George Bush just used it for toilet paper?

You really are insufferable. The INS is doing what it is supposed to have been doing for years. It is enforcing immigration and visa laws. The lack of enforcement in this area in recent years is a direct contributor to the attacks that killed thousands of our countrymen.

If these people have all their papers in order, all their ducks in a row, then they'll be back on the streets in short order. If, on the other hand, they are here under false pretenses, in violation of their visas, or are illegal immigrants, then they will be detained and then deported. That's the law. Sorry if it makes you uncomfortable.

Oh, and the link to this thread on the LA Indymedia homepage is humorous. "500 so-cal residents detained without warning" has a much more alarmist ring to it than "500 suspected visa violators held for questioning" or "500 lawbreaking foreigners arrested". Classic.

Pvt. Fido: "If these people have all their papers in order, all their ducks in a row, then they'll be back on the streets in short order." - Fuck, the only thing missing is the black leather trenchcoat, cigarette holder and German accent...

PoochieBoy, do you KNOW any of this to be true? Let me answer for you simpleass, No, you do not. Do you know anyone who was there and detained? No, you do not. Were these people adequately informed as to what was expected of them, such as what paperwork to bring? No, they weren't. Were people detained without being given reason for detention? Yes, they were.

Why should anyone listen to a racist fuck like you is beyond me...but actually, no one pays the least bit of attention to your howlings...you are useless barkin' broke-dick dog...

Well, KPC! Back for another buttkicking, I see. I admire your stamina.

The facts are the facts, sunshine. Ignorance of the law is not a defense, as you should know. If you want to come to this country to work, study, or live, you had better come correct. Otherwise, you can expect to be detained and perhaps even deported. This is because we have laws, junior. And certain persons from certain countries have, in recent memory, slaughtered our people here in our country because these same laws were not being enforced.

And don't call me a racist. I am no more of a racist than you, Mr. Mom.

Yo, simple, if our headline had been what you suggested, it would have been false reporting.
Im sure you wouldn't suggest that we spread lies like so many other members of the liberal media establishment.

If you've read the papers and other posts here, you know that the 500 were not visa violators and many of them did have their papers in order. It was the INS who austensibly didn't have them in order.

Real cute rage though, you do a great job playing the roll of the angry man. I mean, far be it from me to want to misrepresent the truth for political gain. (wink wink.)

Pvt. Fido: "If these people have all their papers in order, all their ducks in a row, then they'll be back on the streets in short order." - Fuck, the only thing missing is the black leather trenchcoat, cigarette holder and German accent...

PoochieBoy, do you KNOW any of this to be true? Let me answer for you simpleass, No, you do not. Do you know anyone who was there and detained? No, you do not. Were these people adequately informed as to what was expected of them, such as what paperwork to bring? No, they weren't. Were people detained without being given reason for detention? Yes, they were.

Why should anyone listen to a racist fuck like you is beyond me...but actually, no one pays the least bit of attention to your howlings...you are useless barkin' broke-dick dog...

Yo, simple, if our headline had been what you suggested, it would have been false reporting.
Im sure you wouldn't suggest that we spread lies like so many other members of the liberal media establishment.

If you've read the papers and other posts here, you know that the 500 were not visa violators and many of them did have their papers in order. It was the INS who austensibly didn't have them in order.

Real cute rage though, you do a great job playing the roll of the angry man. I mean, far be it from me to want to misrepresent the truth for political gain. (wink wink.)

It was not my intent to insult the fair folks of Indymedia, merely to point out their, well, interesting way of portraying the story. The title of the story has changed from the original posting. If memory serves, it said something liket 500 middle eastern persons were detained. This has subsequently replaced by the more innocuous "500 so cal residents".

True, these 500 people do reside here, but how many of them do so legally? Do you refer to a stowaway on a cruise ship as a passenger? If all of these detainees are citizens or people without descrepancies in their paperwork, then I will gladly retract my assertion. I haven't seen where this has been authoritatively proven. Perhaps you could shoot me a link to an article in the mainstream press which says this? Not that I don't trust Abdullah's mom, but I'd like verification that he's a good boy from a source not related to him. It's amazing how many people in prision were framed.

OK, LA Times editorial.

http://www.latimes.com/la-ed-ins20dec20,0,6882896.story

The LA Times and most things I have read only report on the innocent being taken in as circumstantial- apparently because the INS has not yet admitted fault. The INS seems to be keeping a tight lip on the matter, releasing people without explaination. There are huge discrepencies between what the INS says and what both the papers and the communities from which the detainees come from.

Close friends experiences with INS where they are left in the lurch of INS paperwork (they have done it right but INS timing is off so the INS Agents honorably say "don't worry, your status is being adjusted, but if you leave the US, your paperwork won't let you back in"- essentially admiting a gap between paperwork and law) and the surfacing of these stories on the wire, in conversation, and on mainstream news leads me to interpret the situation as such- that many legal residents were detained unjustly.

Yeah, perhaps some didn't comply fully beforehand with legal procedures, but not all.

In addition, i am not a fan of using legal definitions in headlines- resident to me means someone who lives somewhere. And as far as I know, many of the detainees were residing for a long time un SoCal.

And so, informed by knowledge of the INS, reports on the news-wire and on both left and mainstream media, and by a definition differing from yours (mine being the "simple" one) of the word "resident". the headline is writen as such.

If that doesn't satify you, I don't imagine any amount of arguing from me will. But please remember that I do not sign a contract to a. use legal definitions of terms, b. only believe the INS' closed lip policy c. discredit personal stories about detention experiences when they are not backed up by the very institution that detained them d. follow the liberal media's lead.

I do have the right to interperet a broad range of facts and make an interpretation while, ideally, presenting facts.

..they got here somehow. The failure has already occurred. The manner in which this "operation" is being conducted is the trouble-some aspect. It's not as if some major media news flash was presented in September informing people from these nations to come register (again, in many cases) to settle the "irregularities" in the archaic system. No terrorists would've shown up, anyways, so isn't that just flexing political muscle on the countries and their nationalities?
Recent history would sober most of these people to what they face: indefinite incarceration without due process - to say the least. And yet STILL many came to "do their duty." That's more than most CITIZENS actively do.
There is a place for this, but there should be a more sensible and methodical application of the process, and a respect for the individuals involved. And again, if this was to have anything to do with concerns over terrorism (as the gov't attests), why the glaring omission (originally) of Saudi Arabia? I know several Saudi-Americans. Admirable people. Wish there were many more like them. They too would join the lines to do what it takes to dispel any notion of connections to terrorism. They too decry the atrocities of 9/11. But they TOO acknowledge that their homeland has some questions to answer and that political grandstanding, old back-room deals, and favoritism (non-partisan, mostly) is turning a blind eye to this.
More sensible approaches, less rhetoric, more openness and honesty... Why do we even NEED to ask this of our government? Should this not be implicit?

Again, my intention was not to offend. I appreciate the timely response.

My understanding of the situation is that thousands of Middle Eastern persons were asked to come to the INS and that around 500 were detained. This leads me to believe that the 500 in question were in violation of some law. If the argument made by the CAIR folks and others is true, that this is the government preparing to put all Arabs in camps, then why didn't they intern all the persons they interviewed? Curious behavior to let the majority go and only keep a handful.

Now I would be the last person to defend the beauracracy of the federal government, and no doubt government waste and sloth is to blame for many of these people's problems, but certainly not all.

Anyway, thanks again for the information.

Ins has to have more restaining order on its operative than on the honest people who are trying to remedy theire immigration status. these are the people that are paying taxes and not the corporation swho are actually draining the economy for personal benefits and gains.

Ins has to have more restaining order on its operative than on the honest people who are trying to remedy their immigration status. these are the people that are paying taxes and not the corporations who are actually draining the economy for personal benefits and gains.

I know this recent event must have upset a lot of people, but according to this article those arrested were not American citizens or permanent residents. They were people who had invalid/expired visas for one reason or another. INS has every right to detain them, or arrest them, or deport them. These are the rules of INS and every person with an invalid, or expired visa who remains in the country knows they are taking a risk. Many people are willing to break immigration rules/laws to stay in the U.S. until they can find a way to legally stay, unfortunately for some, INS is starting to inforce those rules again.

stop! hammer time.

Anna, stop your complaining. If it wasn't for all the brave INS agents, you and your bull dyke lover would be stoned in public everytime you pressed your huge fat bodies together and kissed in public. Where's your gratitude. And by the way, the Indigo Girls are horrible so next time you rant about weapons of mass destruction, think about that. And what about the children?!?