Pictures from the Anti-INS Immigrant Rights Protest against the arbitrary detainment of Iranian and Arab Americans!!

More info on immigrant-rights, War on Iraq, etc… is available at: http://www.zmag.org/ZNET.htm

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I believe this new immigration law present thrugh Repablican recism, which Mr. Lott presented few weeks ago.

I was detained after going to the INS because I was told that we had to register, I have been here for more than 17 years, gone to high school and college and now teach at the University of Arizona. I was held at the INS center for more than eight hours and then sent to the detention center which to us 14 hours to reach. I was told that I was denied for my petition for perminant residency nine month ago, even though I was merried to a us citizen and never received any documentation regarding my denial of residency.

The INS treated us like shit, yelling and screaming at you sometimes in Spanish, and when you try to tell them that you do not speak spanish they tell you to shut up and sit on the ground since there is absolutely no room in the holding cells.

For the first 15 hours that I was detained at the holding cell I was given one small cheeseburger,

Luckily I am out right now and many are not so lucky.
Without money in the detantion center your only way to call home and inform them that you are being detained is collect which 99% of the times don't work because most people have told their phone companies to not accept collect calls.

Best wishes for all people in the hole and hope they all get out.


love jamal

Just wanted to let some people know that alot of people from Irvine and near cities were actually sent to my detention camp in Florance, arizona.

The only full name that I remember is Kaveh Momtazi or momtazian. there were many more from california, the guy who traveled the world with bicycle from Iran was also there ( forgot his name) most were there for some month now, I got out after a week.

Daryush

You do have a point on monitoring certain individual more closley due to the terrorist attacks, however, the actions taken by INS has been totally unacceptable and unconsitutional. These individuals were not even given any reasons why they were so humiliated and kept without any evidence.
Just imagine, if it was a while anglo saxon person, would they have treated them like such, probably not, if they did, the news would be all over the media. Unfortunately they are keeping the news out, and only in small prints in hidden pages, because they too realize their wrong doing and don't want to be critized for it.

Jamal Tabatabai has studied in the US ?! And he is currently teaching at the arizona Uni !!!??? His comments show he is far from being qualified for what he claims he is at. Having been 17 years in the US, his usage of the language is rife with flaws.
I feel sorry for those students under his tutorship at the Arizona Uni. What a miserable standard!!!

YES! I totally agree with Nestor and Bush admirer. I think that only people who are US citizens have the right to live. I hope we could get rid of the rest of the world oneday. I also think that President Bush and Mr. Ashcroft are on a good fast track pace to make Ayatollah Khomeini's dreams a reality in the United States. This is absolutely the right way to do it. They are not singling out certains countries, they are only singling out the citizens of certian countries. Khomeini would ahve done the same or worst if Americans would have missled down a passenger 747 plane over the Persian Gulf. So lets follow his footsteps and do the same. Because we have chosen a presidnet who admires the likes of Khomeini deep down in his heart. Only one wears a turbin, the other wears a tie!

PS. How could Mr. Jalal teach music or visual arts in the University while he has some grammatical errors in his writing?

BushBlower: "Bardia - If they're not US Citizens, then why should they have any constitutional rights?"

Hello MORON - the Constitution protects all "persons", it does not specify that those persons be citizens, half-wit, they only have to be in this country. Everybody knows that....

I am so sorry to see an Iranian, better say a human being, has such an awful opinion.

I do not know if you are a kid or have reached maturity but from outside of wonderful USA for you, I wish that we can eliminate such stupidity you exercise.

Please, and I mean it, go and study a few books regardinf humanity and the dreams of the founders of US.

Another advice, go travel around the world. It may help you correct your thoughts. Then you will undersand that another 6 bil people are as much as, or even more, human that you currently are.

BA,
I don't expect you to agree with anything I write. So, I start off with a quote from the ACLU (BA "You quoted the ACLU as a credible source?!)

"THE RIGHTS OF IMMIGRANTS

"In decisions spanning more than a century, the U.S. Supreme Court has ruled that the Constitution's guarantees apply to every person within U.S. borders, including "aliens whose presence in this country is unlawful." On the other hand, the Court has said that when the federal government uses its broad powers to supervise immigration into this country, it can exercise those powers in ways that discriminate on the basis of "alienage." In other words, the government has the power to decide who to let into the country and under what circumstances. But once here, even undocumented immigrants have the right to freedom of speech and religion, the right to be treated fairly, the right to privacy, and the other fundamental rights U.S. citizens enjoy. 

Since immigrants don't have the right to enter the U.S., those who are not here legally are subject to deportation. The Immigration and Naturalization Service (INS) has the authority to question "any person believed to be an alien as to his right to be in the United States." But in a 1903 case called Yamataya v. Fisher, the U.S. Supreme Court ruled that the INS could not deport someone without a hearing that meets constitutional due process standards. Since then, procedural rights for undocumented immigrants have evolved so that today, in spite of Congress' attempts to curtail these rights, most people facing deportation are entitled to:

* a hearing before an immigration judge and review, in most cases, by a federal court;   * representation by a lawyer (but not at government expense);   * reasonable notice of charges, and of a hearing's time and place;   * a reasonable opportunity to examine the evidence and the government's witnesses;   * competent interpretation for non-English speaking immigrants, and   * clear and convincing proof that the government's grounds for deportation are valid.

"It is true that the Constitution does not give foreigners the right to enter the U.S. But once here, it protects them from discrimination based on race and national origin and from arbitrary treatment by the government. Immigrants work and pay taxes; legal immigrants are subject to the military draft. Many immigrants have lived in this country for decades, married U.S. citizens, and raised their U.S.-citizen children. Laws that punish them violate their fundamental right to fair and equal treatment. " ACLU .................... "In addition, the  The American Convention on Human Rights (American Convention), with the exception of Art. 22 and Art. 23, guarantees the rights enumerated in the Convention to “all persons subject to [States Parties’] jurisdiction.”[65] International law

.................... "When we think about the rights of non-citizens, our starting point should be the equality of persons. That principle is fundamental to justice and our nation. It commits us to believe that, in general, non-citizens who reside in the United States should have the same basic rights as citizens.

    The text of the Constitution reflects this commitment. The Constitution's key provisions speak in terms of the rights of "persons," not "citizens." For example, the Due Process Clauses of the Fifth and Fourteenth Amendments provide that no person shall be deprived of life, liberty or property without due process of law.

    Courts have correctly held that non-citizens are fully entitled to basic constitutional protections, such as the freedom of speech and the right to a fair trial. They have also held that the Equal Protection Clause prohibits discrimination on the basis of "alienage" — that is, it prevents the government from treating non-citizens less well than citizens." Princeton University

.............. And finally, the question of how to deal with aliens in the US is defined by the question of "alienage." Article 5 and article 14 seem to hold much of the basis for the constitutional rights of non citizens. Check this webpage out for more constitutional info.

You know what's the most ridiculous part of this whole thing? They are rounding up Iranians but not Egyptians and Saudis?!!! (The Phase II in January will also leave Egyptians and Saudis out-- focusing instead on some other poor immigrants from Afghanistan, Lebanon, Eritrea, ...)

No Iranian has EVER been found to be associated with al-Qaeda-- ANYWHERE in the world. Meanwhile everyone knows, as the 9/11 operation itself showed, that al-Qaeda leadership is Egyptian with mostly Saudi membership.

Now Americans are supposed to feel secure that their "homeland security department" is focusing on the least likely people to be al-Qaeda terrorists while diplomatically avoiding the most likely group.

This whole thing would be very funny if it wasn't so sad. (The description of the 16 year old being dragged away from his mom and the 70-year being strip searched and tied up are just too graphic to put a twist of humor on this shameful event.)

to daryoush stupid bush admirer.
You're a disgrace to all Iranians.
You're kind of thinking is exactly why the world is in this state. you do not have the mental capacity to fathom state sponsored violence. Your generalization of all people ie all black people play basketball or all Iranians are terrorists etc.. did you forget about timothy mcvay. did the government round up a bunch of "red neck gun lovers" when that happened?
Think a little please!

to daryoush stupid bush admirer.
You're a disgrace to all Iranians.
You're kind of thinking is exactly why the world is in this state. you do not have the mental capacity to fathom state sponsored violence. Your generalization of all people ie all black people play basketball or all Iranians are terrorists etc.. did you forget about timothy mcvay. did the government round up a bunch of "red neck gun lovers" when that happened?
Think a little please!

hello!

i am agree honestly what the iranian regim wich is the
those who every body hate them and has support from minority,but i don`t think people in iran like any action from the regime any way , and don`t forget all this senario has been made from british and american for future and now they get there result wich is stoping iranian ambitious ,from shah time ,they used the latest marketing fomula to bring the whole reveloution in first place , and now this it is nothing to do with any body `s religion but using the religion to stoping any nation expanding ,this can happen against christian one day in the future when the muslem totaly dissapear , this is a game human will eivel side will never stop.
good luck flyingman @hot mail.com

Man u r some piece of work !!! How did u figure out they ( Bush And Ashcroft ) are the right one for this country ??
I'm gonna believe that Khamenei and Hashemi Araghi
are the right ones for Iran too !!!!!!

It's little soon for you to understand what's going on here !

Take it easy guys. I know that sometimes life gets too hectic, but remember, we Iranians are no angels (the same with Americans). As an Iranian, nobody can deny what we have done to our own countrymen, in the name of Islam and Iran . All I'm saying is to have open minds. This is true for all the other nations, such as Germans (during WWII to the jews and Europeans), Americans (to its own people during Civil War and to Native Indians & Blacks), Japanese (to Koreans and Chinese), Chinese (Communism), Arabs (to themselves and Persians), etc. we need to look at the world and its affairs differently. We need to accept responsibility for our shortcomings and learn from our mistakes in the past. This is all non-sense to try to prove we're better than them or they try to prove that they're bettr. We have all made mistakes and it is time to get smart and stop blaming each other. After all, we are all children of God.

Take it easy guys. I know that sometimes life gets too hectic, but remember, we Iranians are no angels (the same with Americans). As an Iranian, nobody can deny what we have done to our own countrymen, in the name of Islam and Iran . All I'm saying is to have open minds. This is true for all the other nations, such as Germans (during WWII to the jews and Europeans), Americans (to its own people during Civil War and to Native Indians & Blacks), Japanese (to Koreans and Chinese), Chinese (Communism), Arabs (to themselves and Persians), etc. we need to look at the world and its affairs differently. We need to accept responsibility for our shortcomings and learn from our mistakes in the past. This is all non-sense to try to prove we're better than them or they try to prove that they're bettr. We have all made mistakes and it is time to get smart and stop blaming each other. After all, we are all children of God.

yeh buddy , i'm with you man . it's all about bull shit and you know it. first they supported saddam. then they send money and crap to afghans through arabs. now they got theire eyes on iran. one day at the white house and you'll see all old farts from nixon and reagan administration are still running the show. its all about dividing the world and we got what they need. " freedom , justice and contitution" means crap. just hold on to your hats . you've seen nothing yet.

Daryoush!
it seems to me that you are justifying persecution. the islamic idealogy you are referring to, has followers only in a small portion of most middle eastern societies, but unfortunately puts the burden on the rest of us. Do you support the iranian government policies in making life misrable for all the religious minorities? or any other government in the world, for that matter? the fact of the matter is that government officials can take actions against anyone or any groups whose beliefs runs counter to they want to see, but does that justify those actions? i think not, regardless of how dedicated they are to protect their citizens against a particular outside threat. so please stop trying to give them credit they do not deserve.

listin guys as iranian americans or residents we r too used to being perfect law bidding citizens even better than the americans. they say jump we jump , they say go and reggister we go because its law. if any of u my fellow iranians are stupid enough to go and regester knowing that u have some kind of imagration problem, and knowing the current situation in this country for muslems then u deserve to get locked up and abused. my advice to shut up stay away from any dam ins bulding till all this shit blows over.

BABA...... GHAZANFAR........... DON'T YOU HAVE SPELL CHECK IN THERE?!!!!

Your points are well taken and I agree with you 100%. But, there is a better solution to the problem. I do not believe that by taking losers like Osama Bin Laden or Saddam Hossein or Iranian statesmen out of the picture, we will be able to solve terrorism. I honestly believe that the only way to do so is to fight and eliminate hunger, lack of education, injustice, bigotry, prejudice, fanaticism (religious or nationalistic), and many many other basic needs of the people in the Middle East. These will take care of those losers by itself. Look, let's be realistic, we tend to always blame someone else for our miseries. In the Middle East, we tend to blame Americans, Israelis, British for our problems. Although, history has proved to us that their conducts have influenced the region so much, good and bad. But, we never tend to look at ourselves to find solutions. What have we done to improve the quality of life for ourselves? Why are we so into fandamentalism (both religious and nationalistic) that has almost blinded us. We can't see what we are doing to our own integrity and character. We are very good people. We are civilized with a very rich culture. But why can't we show that to the world? I think we need to evaluate our conducts too in a very sound manner.

chakeram! this is me!

How could we as "Law abiding citizens" improve the quality our lives and our conduct? what is it that we have done that in your opinion is so wrong for which we deserve punishment? In 9 out of 10 cases if we blame these people for our misfortunes, we are absolutely correct in making that judgment. Because everytime we turn around and try to ignore, they put one right over us and trigger a reaction. If they want to remove those few fundamentalists from the entire population, why not coming up with more effective and meaningful methods? George W. should feel proud that he has at least one faithful voter for 2004!

The constitution defines the rights of people residing in US as well as the US citizens. Even illigal immigrants have certain constitutional previllages. The recently approved "Patriot Act" has tried to curb the non-citizen's rights to some extent, but there is a debate whether or not it is entirely constitutional. Nonetheless, if the accounts of prioson conditions reported in the press is proved to be true, that sounds like a serious violation of constitution, as well as human rights in general.

I would like to add that the recent situation is no suprise to me, personally. Iranians in US may be very successful individuals, but have not participated in political system of this country. Look aorund at other minorities and see their efforts in political found-raising, etc. I don't blame republicans or democrates for this, nor the US government (except for human rights violations if proves to be true), but I do blame Iranian-Americans for "not in my backyard mentality".

So far, the only Iranian-related issues in US were related to students, so none of the Irianian-Americans cared about it. But now that it has hit close to home, when their visiting parent, child, nanny, etc. are being detained everyone is jumping up and down.

This country's system may not be the ideal system, but it is one of the best. Yet democracy doesn't come for free, you need to pay your dues. And I think attending fund-raising events for your senators or local legislators is part of it.

Dear friend, As I mentioned before, we can go ahead and blame US or British governments for our miseries for eternity, but it won't solve any problem. Look at the recent Iranian histoy: If we Iranians had a little bit of knowledge in our own history, we would have never allowed Mullahs to take over our lives (read hitory of Iran during Qajar Dynasty)' If we had a little bit of knowledge, we would have never allowed the Shah to declare one political party (Rastakhiz) for the entire population. If we had a little bit of knowledge, we would have not made President Khatami as our national hero (head of propaganda organization during Iran-Iraq war). If we had a little bit of knowledge, we would not have allowed people like Bani Sadr or Rajavi to become our saviours. Do you need more reasons. This is just a small drop compared to the sea.

If that assumption taken place, I don't think they would mistreat every single person with that particular religious believe. Such persumption is ubsurd! Since teaching of islam is totally different from Christian one! Anyhow, Those terrorist act was not done by Muslims, dear friend. Which century are you living? For the fact of the matter, every one who does an act by the name of islam, it doesn't make is islamic. May i remind you that that terrorist was fed many years by the American gov., so much money and artillary! What you are seeing happenning in INS is that racist action or discrimination which is part of the American istitution! And nothing to do those terrorist act! What a surprise! that you forget it is indeed America who support the terrorist for it economic,political game and gain! Who is behind the state terrorist, Israel? I am saddened by muslim like you whom the victim of the propaganda by your enemy! May God awaken all!

Well! Mr Aref!
Your own writings contradict itself: saying from one side that u like/support the iranian regim and on the other hands saying, it is a scenario created by american and british, using religion to stop progress!! Well! make up your mind. Have you been to iran to find out whether they like the present regim or you are bluffing from media, which is nothing but propaganda! Of course, every regime has enemy, espicially the one which disgust/reject the imperialism of America. and it is a fact that America for that reason, whatever fo far could do to knock down the regim in iran tried and trying but thanks god, not succedding! What is humanity and progression? What type of government do u support? The one like American where go get drunk in the weekend and where you can fulfill your animal istinct with whatever cost. So you would be busy too much with these stuff, and pay no attention to what type shit the American government does in the USA itself and what does it do outside USA? Do you know how many rapes happening every 1min in USA? Do you have a government policy which support the poor's needs such as medical care, which is in usa based on national insurance? Do you know how many poeple are dying in the usa by gun? Do you know how deeply are you been shaped by the government through all those advertisments? go and do some psychology studies to find out in what type of shit you are living before you critise or dismiss other countries? tell me who is behind israel? who suport that bitch? Is that the type of iran you want too? where in the past an iranian had no rights, but you american if committing a crime no one has the right to persecute you? is that what your are looking for? Why is it so difficult for some to accept a regim, which was chosen by the people themselves? I pray to god , that he open your eyes and others, and allow you to see things without any predujice!

its funny how people can say "well muslims are terrorists thats why they should be unconstitutionally thrown in jail with the general population even though they work hard and pay taxes" while christians have been terrorizing for thousands of years. CHRISTIANS blow up abortion clinics. a CHRISTIAN blew up the oklahoma federal building. CHRISTIANS executed 6 million Jews. CHRISTIANS have fought unnecessary and often genocidal holy wars in the name of God, yet we dont round up every white fundamental christian and throw them in jail for their terrorist beliefs. Peace.

This is very interesting. Lokk who's asking if in which century we live in. The problems that you listed for American society are very true. At lease, they do not kill or torture people in Ameria just because people think differently (compare that to what's happening in Iran). You're talking about American society, well let's talk about it a little bit. In Islamic Iran (thanks to Islamic Republic), the rate of prostitution has jumped to 65%, since these poor women do not have any other way to fed their children. The rate of unemployment is 28%. The Iranian roads are considered to be the most dangerous roads in the world (thanks to Islamic Republic laws and enforcements), freedom of speech is none (for people on the streets or newspapers - 47 newspapers are closed down in the past two years). The rate of stealing and break-ins are tripled since the beginning of Mr. Khatami's presidency due to low or no income. The gap between rich and poor is beyond belief. 500,000 deaths resulted from a fruitless war with Iraq in the 80's (survey shows that 80% of the families who have lost loved ones in that war are extremely unhappy with the current regime in Iran). I do not hve time to list more, but these are just few problems that you think the Islamic Republic of Iran does not have. Wow, Hasan, you should be proud of your Islamic Republic!!

Let my people go

"Given the evidence, there is no alarmism in saying this is a round-up," said Lucas Guttentag, Director of the ACLU’s Immigrants’ Rights Project. "Attorney General Ashcroft is using the immigrant registration program to lock up people who already have provided extensive information as part of their green card applications," he said. "Therefore the purpose is clearly not to get information but rather to selectively arrest, detain and deport Middle Eastern and Muslim men in the United States."

ACLU on the "rights of immigrants"

news on mass detention from popular search engine

"John Aschcroft is my hero"

http://makeashorterlink.com/?Y22E24AD2

Well said. I couldn't agree more.

It is unbelievable that U.S. gov. allows such an outrageous action against perosns from mideast countries. Is it realy what U.S. stands for. If yes
let me say good night to your democracy.

LONG LIVE IRAN.

Bye the way Iran will survive also without U.S.

you know its pretty said that you want round ups of Egyptians and Saudis. I agree with you iranians have done nothing. but all of us(egyptians, saudis and iranians) are brothers and sisters in islam. we should support each other not encourage round ups!

On Friday, December 20th, a Mr. Daryoush A. reminds us to be fair, to be just, and to be realistic in our attack of the INS and its unconstitutional detainment of Middle Eastern Americans. A "Bush Admirer," on the same day, asks us to "understand" that terrorism is breeded in the Muslim faith, and in his vulgar support of the INS reminds us that certain said actions are "neccessary" and "proper." But I have a comment or two to make myself.

What exactly is fair and just about 500 non-criminals being detained in 3 by 5 cells? What is neccessary and proper about being underfed in a facility that the government established and maintains. What exactly is there for me to "understand" when a Middle Eastern man dies of a heart attack in that same facility because officers refuse him medication and care. What is there that I am supposed to be empathetic of when officers are pressuring individuals who were just as, if not more, affected by the Sep. 11th terrorist attacks, and what exactly is understandable about recluse officers who call these innocent passersby "terrorists" and "camals" whose deportment is not only imminent but also neccessary and imperative. I ask you, what is exactly "realistic" about a similar man committing suicide because of the unneccessary pressure officers are burdening this non-terrrorist with? Because let's face it, simply put, an "Osama Bin-Laden Admirer" (simply so we can mirror the fool who posted the previous message) will not walk into the INS office raving about the awesome holiday party the two attended a week ago... he will not comply with the same government he is hoping to overthrow. Hell, he won't even show up for the so-called registration at all. And in fact, you won't be able to find that son-of-a-bitch.

You see, the mistake we make in hoping to "eradicate" terrorism is that we become terrorists ourselves-- We evoke terror on those we are trying to protect. If you don't believe me, maybe Daryoush or a certain "Bush Admirer" can look up the definition of this atrocious word and do us the favor they were too negligent to do in the first place-- they can state the definition of terrorism verbatim, and then they can denounce the INS for being hypocrites and agents of hate and worse than the Islamic thugs they are not only denouncing but also hoping to snatch up in thier so-called registration.

At a time and place when truth is far from what the media feeds us and even further from what ignorants like Daryoush and "Bush Admirer" like to allocate, let me, in turn, remind YOU that those individuals that have been detained are living, breathing, feeling human beings that know nothing of hate, have (or, rather, used to have) nothing but respect for the "freedom" and "justice" this nation is stood for, and do nothing but live (or rather, used to live) as Americans carrying out the "American dream" that most of them escaped thier home countries to carry out. No, these are not individuals that we should fear and these are not individuals who's lives and future we should take so indifferently.

Be ashamed of yourself, Daryoush and "Bush Admirer" and those many others whom I'm sure have posted equally hurtful remarks. To you, Daryoush, yes, the Persian or Afghani or Iraqi or whatever the hell government you want to call it might take similar actions. But then again the government of those countries are supposed to be barbaric... we, on the other hand, are much more high and mighty... we have forever been applauded for being democratic and civil... for having a constitution to live and rule by, or at least until now. And to you, "Bush Admirer," did you forget Timothy McVay or those equally terror-inducing WHITE and CHRISTIAN teenagers at Columbine? And in terms of "results," what did Japanese internment result to? Shame. Distrust. Prejudice. And, perhaps more important, a scarred American legacy. Now I'm sure that if for nothing else-- if not for justice and if not for equity and if not for the "dream" that one protestor last wednesday asked us to "remember"-- you are against Middle Eastern detainment for that.

What perhaps scares me the most is that human nature is forever fickle... it changes and it grows and it, sadly, because more atrocious and less compasionate. So.... today we have detained innocent Iranians and Iraqis and Afghans and Koreans and Libeans... And tomorrow, we will detain American CITIZENS from these countries. The day later we will come back just as strong with a similar "registration" requirement for women of the middle east... And in a day or two all non-white, non-conforming, and non-"Bush Admiring" American citizens who practice thier right to the first amendment and to, perhaps more broadly, the Bill of Rights. Yeah... that's how it goes and goes and goes... until we're all gone.

Again, shame on yourself Daryoush and "Bush Admirer."

You know, I too value results... and I too am able to see the big picture. However, I am no advocate of terror, and I do not support using terror as a means of getting these results. I use this forum to remind you, Mr. Bush Admirer, to not forget the middle man and to not to step over any less important, less influential, and less powerful individuals in your quest to acheive these results. As one of these less prominent individuals, I ask that you be maybe a little less cruel and a little more kind, more humane in the way you carry out your so-called "war on terrorism"-- remember to feed the detainees, remember to keep them warm, remember to give them their medicine. Also, refrain from hosing them down with cold water the moment they step into your facility; refrain from making them walk for miles on end in the rain in handcuffs and shackles to receive what little food you are willing to disperse; refrain from deploring thier faith and miscontruing thier intentions; and perhaps most importantly, refrain from publicly humiliating these intention and making them the object of ridicule:
"The INS treated us like shit, yelling and screaming at you sometimes in Spanish, and when you try to tell them that you do not speak spanish they tell you to shut up and sit on the ground since there is absolutely no room in the holding cells. "-one of the people detained by the INS(read "Today").

For if you really want to use them for the knowledge they hold and the information they can provide to you, create an environment where they WANT to help you, where they will be your confidant, where you can use them with the utmost confidence that they won't stab you in the back for the hell-and-a-half you put them through.

The US government has become a tyrant to whom these Middle Easterners must succumb. And if you cannot see that, Mr. Bush Admirer, I cannot help you. And you if you cannot empathize with human suffering, then do not call me "friend." And if you see no problem with a diplomatic nation turned fascist, treating people like savages, then, alas, I have nothing more to say to you, and no more much-needed words of wisdom to shed.

How respectful is it to lock people up because you can't do your job right?

How respectful is it (hypothetically) that they did their job right and locked up innocent people just to scare them?

No, this is a bigger question then just respecting the detainees, its a question of how one beurocracy (the ins, or homeland security perhaps, or perhaps an administration) can imagine that they have the authority to fuck with innocent people's lives.

Dear Shadee,
If you read all my notes, prior and after December 20yh, you will notice that you and I are exactly saying the same thing. I have no idea why I have to be ashamed. For what? One point that I disagree with you though is that you try to tell me that mass population have no impact on the actions of their governments. I disagree. In Iran, in the name of Islam and Iran, they have inflicted tremendous amount of pain to millions of innocent people with the approval of mass population. Nobody can deny this. This is a shame that us, Iranians, have to live with for the rest of eternity. The pain that we have caused our own countrymen is beyond justification.
I am not ashamed of what I have said, because it is true. I am not ashamed for saying that when revolution started to execute Shah's army men, we applauded them (someone else should be ashamed). I am not ashamed for saying that when revolution started to execute thousands of our young men and women just simply because they were members of Mojahedin-e-Khalq, we aplauded them (someone else should be ashamed). I am not ashamed of saying that, when in the name of exporting revolution, 500,000 members of our finest youth killed in Iran-Iraq war, we applauded them (someone else should be ashamed). I am not ashamed for saying that in the name of Isalm they killed, tortured, imprisoned members of the Baha'i religion, we applauded them (someone else should be ashamed.) and so on and so on. We need to start accepting responsibiltiy for our actions, positive or negative.

The only reason you belive the 9/11 attacks were caused by "muslim extreamists" is because your government told you so. Sure it wouldn't surprise me if they were given the genocidal foriegn policy our government perpetuates throughout the muslim world. But we have historic reasons for due process of law, and freedom of speach and assembly. More Americans die every month due to obesity than all the terrorist attacks in the last ten years. Do you see our government rounding up McDonalds managers????

I have to disagree with you. It’s true that if a Christian were to bomb a building in Iran then chances are most Christians would suffer the consequences. However, this is not Iran and Religious fundamentalists do not run our government. Its sad that only 50 years after the detention of the Japanese during World War II the US government is making the same mistake once again. Members of our own government have gone as far as saying the concentration camps were a dark period in American History. Our elected officials have to be cautious; they are walking a fine line. Rather than winning this war by understanding their enemy and identifying they through intelligence, they are going into panic mode. Actions like these can easily turn the tide of favor on a worldwide scale.

When you think about it for a second who is going to show up at the INS to register themselves as immigrants? A would be terrorist? Or an individual who has been living in this country for years hoping that one-day they would get their residency? All the while working and paying taxes, abiding by the rules set before them and being positive members of the community.

This sort of action also has a negative effect on the public image of Iranians living in the US. Unfortunately when the government takes such action the people's opinion gets skewed as well. I fear hate crimes and prejudice will rise towards the minority groups who’s countries were singled out.

In 50 years this will be regarded as another dark day in American History. Along with the detention of the Japanese, the mistreatment of the Irish immigrants in the 18th century, the enslavement of blacks and of course the annihilation of the Native Americans.

i'm sorry to say that the recent actions by INS in los angeles have really exposed the rift that exists and has always existed between iranian jews and other iranians. on the one hand, iranian jews are always wining about 'not being accepted' by other iranians as iranian. but then when an incident like this happens that affects the entire iranian community, not only have they proven to be unsupportive of their fellow countrymen in a time of need-as evidenced by the fact that not one single iranian jewish organization was represented at the recent demonstrations in Westwood; but in fact they have also supported these moves by INS. in other words, they are backstabbers. a common "anti-semitic" charge, the jews will tell you. but TIME AND TIME again they demonstrate exactly this through their actions.

another thing which i'd like to note is this: in recent articles, iranian jews have blamed the tension and animosity that now exists on "envy" on the part of iranian muslims. a ridiculous and childish charge, but one that nevertheless deserves a response. it is a WELL KNOWN fact among iranians everywhere that jews in iran have always been, speaking on a relative scale, uneducated. the jews were good merchants and bazaaris and businessmen. that's how they established their wealth in iran. they then transplanted that wealth to the united states, and here they're doing the same thing they were doing back in iran. all of the highly successful iranian doctors, engineers, scientists, lawyers, and executives in corporate america are muslims or at any rate non-jewish. the jews of iran have never been and still aren't educated. so if anything the envy should be directed in the opposite direction.

.....a coalition of civil liberties and advocacy groups including the American Civil Liberties Union of Southern California, Iranian American Lawyers Association, the Council on American-Islamic Relations, Muslim Public Affairs Council, Southern Christian Leadership Conference, Asian Pacific Legal Center, the PROGRESSIVE JEWISH ALLIANCE [caps for emphasis mine], People For the American Way, and the Japanese American Citizen’s League called on the Department of Justice to scrap the flawed and misguided INS Special Call-In Registration program or, at the very least, to extend the deadlines for registration so that the regulations in the program can be corrected.....

that was as of Dec. 19 '02....a diverse spectrum of support INCLUDING the Progressive Jewish Alliance

....Ramona Ripston, executive director of the ACLU of Southern California, called the detentions doubly disturbing because "a lot of the Iranians are Jews who fled Iran because of persecution, and now they are undergoing similar persecution here.... This is just terrible."

ashcroft watch

Ignoring BA.

Funny, Hazrate, what is this link and quote below?

<http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=12215&intcategoryid=4>



"LOS ANGELES, Dec. 19 (JTA) — Los Angeles’ Iranian Jewish community is joining area Muslims in accusing the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service of mistreatment during a federally mandated registration of certain immigrants.

The Iranian Jews, together with a much larger number of Muslims from Iran, Iraq, Lybia, Sudan and Syria, were detained during a national registration process of those temporarily residing in the United States."

Bush Admirer:

well, i have anti-american sympathies. what are you going to do about it?? oops, wait...i also have one of those blue U.S. passports (=US citizen) which frankly i'd rather just spit on were it not for the fact that it gives me unmatched travel priviledges. i'm sure you understand.

in regards to the comments about some jewish organizations protesting the detentions...i was talking about iranian jewish organizations. there are plenty of progressive-minded american jews who are out there standing up for what's right. but there's no such thing as a "progressive iranian jew". never was, never will be. as evidence of this, consider that the president of israel as well as the defense minister/chief of staff of the israeli army (who will one day face charges of gross human rights violations in front of an international court) are both IRANIAN. heif keh namoondan vah daseh akhoondah beheshoon nareseed. heif. (ooohhh sorry bush admirer, forgot you're american and thus only speak one language).

Hazrate, are you intolerant and illiterate?
Here's a link to an article quoting an Iranian Jewish organization condemning the detentions to which they they too were subjected. They state solidarity with their fellow detainees.

<http://www.jta.org/page_view_story.asp?intarticleid=12215&intcategoryid=4>


"LOS ANGELES, Dec. 19 (JTA) — Los Angeles’ Iranian Jewish community is joining area Muslims in accusing the U.S. Immigration and Naturalization Service of mistreatment during a federally mandated registration of certain immigrants.

The Iranian Jews, together with a much larger number of Muslims from Iran, Iraq, Lybia, Sudan and Syria, were detained during a national registration process of those temporarily residing in the United States."

Bush Admirer posts to the site are in the hundreds.

He abuses the Indymedia Project’s community open publishing by pistol whipping anybody that’s not a “right wing whacko”. His actions are designed to disrupt or divert the flow of information by making B. A. the center of attention.

In open publishing jargon he is known as a TROLL!

Mr. B A is needed and in fact reqiured to be heard at this time. He represents a significant slice of hartland USA. Nothing too original mind you. I'm sure Mr. B A did not recieve the popular vote, just ask his friends and examine his persoonal life.

Iran has the worlds 2nd largest natural gas reserves and 4th largest crude oil reserves. Not to mention the many, many more resources (including uranium). Iran has the resources to develop into one of, if not the richest nations on the face of the earth. Which obviously would make it a world power and bring the standards of living in Javaadieh closer to that of Western European slums. Many wonder ,why is Iran such a shithole ? As somebody once stated "har dolatti IS A REFLECTION az aan mellatti"
For the most part Iranians have developed a 'high society' type of image throughout the western world,
because so many of Iranians are well educated.
So than why is PetroFars not as large a company as British Petrol ?????? Many would claim Iranians dont have the knowledge to create the petrochemical plants which would enable it to produce its own gas, vaseline, tires , etc ....
aKHEH SEEKAM DAHANETOON
SO BASICALLY
WHY THE $%#& IS IRAN IN THE STATE ITS IN NOW ??
BECAUSE 99% OF THESE SCHOLARS WHO SIT ON THERE A$$ IN GENOA OR ATLANTA OR NYC AND TALK ABOUT TEHRAN POLITICS
DONT HAVE THE BAWLLS TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
AS EVERYDAY GOES BY THE DREAM FALLS INTO A DEEPER NIGHTMARE
THE REVOLUTION WHICH WAS TO MAKE IRAN INDEPENDENT AND STABLE
WHICH WAS TO MAKE THE IRANIAN YOUTH LESS ATTRACTED TOWARDS WESTERN IDEALS(SUCH AS SLUTTYNESS* AND DRUG ABUSE)
THERES MORE THAN ENOUGH PEOPLE AGAINST THE CURRENT REGIME TO ACTUALLY DO SOMETHING ABOUT IT
PERSIAN CULTURE HAS THRIVED FOR OVER TWO MILLENIA
PERSIAN SOCIETY HAS SURVIVED A MANY FOREIGN OCCUPATIONS
BUT AS EVEN A BLIND MAN COULD SEE .........

You are in the country illegaly!
What is the problem?
Allow the government to fly you, with taxpayer money, back home. When you are home try the same antics there you do here and see what happens.

Have a nice flight.

"Not really, blah blah blah…."

Don’t attempt to hide you’re pervasiveness.
You’ve got ten comments on this post alone!

i have to agree with that bush guy. people that can be profiled into a similar demographic with terrorists should be rounded up and imprisoned, hell even beat up a little so they know we are serious. and seeing as how most the of the terrorist leaders are multimillionares, ol' ashcroft should be the first f**king pig rounded up, then bush, cheney, gates, trump, hell even colin powell is worth more than 95% of the world's population.

I always thought that Iranians were backward and uncivilized, well, this page confirms that. You guys are somehow messed up in head otherwise you wouldn’t have such miserable country, get the hell back to you crap hole camel jockeys.

Attorney General and immigration service hit by a class action civil liberties lawsuit because of mass detentions

Lawsuit Aginst Ashcroft, INS

ashcroft watch

I’ve written to this forum twice already, and I think it’s time I inform you of my intentions. I’m a writer. As a journalist, I believe that I am also a friend to those people who give in to rather than challenge societal tendencies and the actions of individuals whose power subordinates others. I am currently working on an article for the Los Angeles times, where my Jan. 12th column will feature a heart-felt and real article regarding INS detainment of Iranians in Southern California.

Today, in this day and age, the Iranian people are the ones suffering. They are the ones in detainment centers with no food, no heat, no shred of dignity and no scrap of hope. You, “Bob,” I am sure are very nice and cozy in your little suburbia of blue skies and chirping birds. Where you work a white-collar job and are just fine and dandy in the lifestyle your government has provided for you. Yeah… I’m sure you think you’re high and mighty and above all the stupid, backwards “Iranians.” But as an objective passerby, I simply want to tell you that you’re trash. I simply want you to know that you have no right and should be denied the privilege of opening your mouth. And if the Bush Administration—or any administration—wants to limit free speech and the Bill of Rights, they should start with you and your like. Because push comes to shove, Bob, you’re simply an ignorant piss. And you, Bob, are the one who is “backwards and uncivilized.”

As a writer and as a journalist, I know that some people are simply too stupid or, rather, too savage, to be salvaged. You, Bobby boy, are the paradigm of such callous individuals. And, thus, I will waste no time trying to “open” your “mindedness”… for I believe it to be so “closed” that it’s shut. What I will do, however, is inform all others in this forum that you are wrong.

The sad truth in being human is that when someone like Bobby—or like Bush Admirer, whom, in my opinion, has way too much free time and way to much interest in this forum—directs hatred our way, we automatically blame ourselves. As a member of this human race and as a minority in the United States, I have had the burden of staring hatred in the face, feeling its presence around the corner, in my neighborhood or at school, so malevolent and ready to attack. And having undergone these experiences, I can now stand up and hold my head high and recognize hatred as “backwards,” and its agents (like our dear Bobby) as “uncivilized”…. and I can know that it’s not me.

To those people who were detained… it’s not you, either. And I want you to know that the public knows your detainment was unconstitutional and wrong. What’s more, I want you to know that journalists like myself are ensuring media attention be given to the atrocious acts of the INS… and that such measures like formal apologies must be allocated… and be allocated SOON…. The time has come for our neighbors to notice that no, Iranians are not the enemy, but yes, we will become a force to be reckoned with should you deny us the respect that you ensure every other tax payer and every other resident and every other individual whose human rights are guaranteed by that little piece of insignificant paper that I’m sure even our dear Bobby boy has heard of—the Constitution.

What I saw at the rally in Westwood on Wednesday was, luckily, a change in the Iranians’ disposition, and a call for Iranians to rise up and start being the agents of change that individuals like Bob and Bush Admirer and trying to suppress.

My dear friends, I am sure you already know that men like Bobby and Bush Admirer will never apologize for victimizing you, belittling you, and making a rather irrational, uncivil, and inhumane act of the INS seem not only understandable but, instead, laudable. But other, wiser, men—men like Jamal Tabatabai who experienced the detainment first had—and even women—like myself—will be the first to admit their fault. For despite the many forces trying to manipulate you into thinking that terrorism, Iraq, “mass weapons of destruction,” and even innocent countries like Iran are the worst breeds of evil, I am here to remind you that ignorance is. For ignorance is what feeds terror and what feeds hatred. And it is ignorance that caused INS and Bush to treat Iranians the way they have. Yes… ignorance is even more evil than the “backward and uncivilized” country of Iran; and yes… I’m sure the people down in Florida and on the Supreme Court are hitting themselves right about now…

I’m sorry, Bob… I know you want someone to blame. I’m sorry Bush Admirer, I’m sure you’re full of hate. And I’m sorry to all those whom ignorance—and the evil of ignorance—has blinded. But as a journalist and as a friend to any victim—Iranian or not; black or brown or blue skinned; male or female or somewhere in between—I want you to know that you are wrong… so wrong. To people like you, the media and I will be forever ready to respond to the bigoted comments you make. And the gift of eloquence and the talent of writing will guarantee that our words won’t slur, our strength won’t fade, and our victory will be inevitable. You may have a forum like this with which to emulate and carry out hate… but I have the print media. And CBS, NBC, CNN… they have the TV media… are we are all far less bigoted than you. And yes… they will—I will—be the victors.

Bobby boy, you, your suburban bubble, and your blind support for anything and everything Bush, the Patriot Act, Homeland Security, or that son-of-a-bitch Ashcroft denies everything that our framers (and I say “our” because I am American, too… Iranian-American, but American, nonetheless… and, sadly a victim to the slurs that ignorant, non-critical consumers like yourself target Middle Easterners with) worked so hard to create. And your admiration for the red, the white, and the blue; the statue of liberty; and American the Great should help you realize that INS’s actions will be worse for you than they are for us. For though I know you cannot empathize and though I know you do not care and though I know that you have no concept of compassion and understanding and the ability to differentiate between what is right and what is wrong, I know that you are bursting with patriotism and nationalism and love for dear old double-ya (W). I just ask you to realize how un-American, un-Patriotic, and un-Nationalistic W’s actions are… and, even more importantly, the un-American, un-Patriotic, and un-Nationalistic ideology your hateful, racist slurs represent.

If you really insist on asking all the people in this forum if and when you are at fault-- like you have with all your other messages-- then I am here to warn you that you will recieve many a negative comment. And honeslty, I do not have the patience or the understanding to try and right the error in your ways. To be perfectly frank, I feel that you a rather needy and clingly individual; a man (I am presuming by you arrogant character that you must be male) who, as desperate for attention as he may be, is even more desperate for a conversation that will irritate and incite his converser.

Simply put, Mr. Bush Admirer, many things you say disturb me and many more of the things you say I find amiss. In terms of Islamic Fundamentalists, yes, I would like to see them eradicated... but not just Islamic Fundamentalists, ALL Fundamentalists... Right Wing Christians as well. You see, Bush Admirer, the difference between you and I is that I don't generalize and I don't stereotype and I don't use racial profiling as a means to victimize and target the innocent.

Another evident difference between us is that I would like Fundamentalism eradicated in all parts of the world. Despite what you may think, there is a greater, bigger, and perhaps more suffering popuation over there among the masses in India, Asian, and, yes, even Iran, Afghanistan, Iraq, Libea, and Korea. And I would like to ensure their safety and well-being, too. Apparently, as long as you are safe in the US you frankly don't and won't give a damn about these people. When the Taliban was practicing Fundamentalism in Afhanistan did you care? When it was denying women education did you make such a big fuss? When it was suppressing and even killing its people-- people who are just as worthy of life as you and me-- did you bring into question whether or not Fundamentalism should live to see another day? No... of course not. There's more to life than you and me and there's more to humanity than Fundamentalism.

If you really are a Bush admirer, you must be blind... either blind or with one lost eye and the other enclosed... hopefully in something infected and bacteria-ridden.

its nice to see that there are some people with hearts in this world

I'm only seventeen... give me a couple of more years with an administration like Bush's dictating my life or with people like Bush Admirer and Bobby boy killing my drive for what's pure, what's right, and what's just, and I'm sure whatever heart I have will be either used, abused, jaded, dissallusioned, or simply as infected and bacteria-ridden as Bush Admirer's compromised vision.

First off, I just wanted to really applaud Shadee on her efforts to educate ignorant individuals. Once these uneducated people have fallen in the hole, I don't believe we can save them.
America has always been known for its acceptance and openness with other ethnicities, but throughout time, America proved its citizens wrong. From the Civil War to WWII. First of all, America was built upon immigrants, so everyone here is an immigrant, whether they're fresh off the boat or have lived here for decades. NO ONE has more power over the other, we're all equal in America! Some people won't agree on this, because they're prejudice. It's ok, be that way, try to fit in, be someone else, someone you're not, but one day (before you die), you'll find out you've been lying to yourself and others this whole time. I don't believe ignorant or uneducated people will go away, so they must be sadly dealt with. People need to start opening their history books more often.
I look at what most of you say (Bush Admirer and you other ignorant people) and I think what a disgrace you are to society. It honestly disgusts me, and I've been born, raised, and educated in the US. AND I know for a fact I'm younger than you, and with that my say and my generation has more say over yours!
May God be with those who have been detained! It's all about PEACE!

some more updates....

Civil rights groups sue to bar more arrests of Middle Eastern men

US Muslims sue over mass arrests

The sad fact of public debate these days is that there’s no respect any more. The enlightened discourses of yore have been replaced with slander and personal insults, people being attacked instead of ideas. It’s no wonder people engage in discussions with such low expectations; no one expects to gain any new insight or broaden their horizons in the slightest bit because they know that it will inevitably lead to a verbal slugfest. It seems that the most controversial participant on this board is Bush Admirer, because he is essentially the only person with clearly conservative views on this board, an unpopular position no doubt on such an emotionally-charged topic. I personally disagree with most all of his views. I strongly dislike both the Bush administration’s handling of the post-9/11 political climate, and the INS’s sudden detainment of immigrants. I do, however respect, Bush Admirer’s right to speak his views, as I respect anyone else’s right to speak their mind. That’s the point of discussions: to hear opposing viewpoints. If I wanted to talk to someone who agrees with me on absolutely ever issue, I’d talk to myself. Some people here don’t seem to understand that; anyone who thinks different here is immediately demonized, denounced as ignorant and closed-minded. A prominent, and unfortunate example, is Shadee. Shadee is a very intelligent and outspoken person; I know her even though she may not know me. She is far more eloquent than her peers, and her accomplishments attest to this. However, she is quite elitist in believing her opinions are superior to everyone else. Now this isn’t very uncommon and is forgivable, except that Shadee is also sanctimonious, the highest crime of the supposed intelligentsia. She preaches open-mindedness and tolerance, but doesn’t hesitate to label her opponents as brainwashed bigots. She laments about the discrimination she’s faced because of her views, yet wouldn’t mind if everyone who didn’t held her viewpoint would magically vanish. She relishes in the smug self-satisfaction of writing a column for the Los Angeles Times at the age of 17, a self-described prodigy with a chip on her shoulder matched in size only by her arrogance, believing that she is giving a voice to the oppressed and is helping liberate the world, one printed word at a time. I hate to break it to you, but you’re not. Shadee lives in Irvine, California. For those of you who don’t know, Irvine is an affluent suburb in Orange County. Shadee is not the voice of the people. She is not the messiah of the oppressed. She is another example of disgruntled suburban youth, so frustrated that she doesn’t live in a poverty-stricken and tyrannical community that she fabricates oppression so she has something to “rebel” against. She calls places like Irvine “bubbles”, ungrateful of what she’s been given because she somehow equates graciousness with traditional values, which is totally unacceptable, not to mention unfashionable. She adamantly declares she’s completely unique and individualistic, yet you’d be hard-pressed to separate her from a crowd of other rebels without a cause. You know the type: Che Guevara posters in their rooms, Emiliano Zapata and Malcolm X quotes on their computer, “Free Tibet” stickers on their binders, an image mass-produced and commercialized just as all other cliques are. It’s always interesting that the groups most determined to prove their uniqueness all end up looking the same (you needn’t look far to find other such examples). She uses terms like “the machine”, “the system”, “the establishment”, because we all know sloganeering is so much easier than actual thought. Shadee, I know this all sounds like I have some incredible hatred for you, but that’s not true. If you were stupid and ignorant, I wouldn’t go to all this trouble. It makes me frustrated to see such talent mismanaged and wasted. You have the capability to say and achieve truly great and original things, but instead you’re giving into the clichéd tropes of the pseudo-revolutionary, and I feel that you’re better than that. Just so everyone knows, I am also Iranian-American, I also live in Irvine, and I’m only a year older than Shadee. I know how infuriating it is to watch events like the immigrant detainment unfold before my very eyes and be powerless to do anything about it. That’s no excuse to abandon intellectual rigor, not in the slightest bit. To attack someone on a personal level is not just petty and immature, but it’s contrary to the very concept of enlightenment. You want an example? I quote:

“To be perfectly frank, I feel that you a rather needy and clingly individual; a man (I am presuming by you arrogant character that you must be male) who, as desperate for attention as he may be, is even more desperate for a conversation that will irritate and incite his converser.”

These are not the words of an intellectual. These are the words of someone who, unable to attack an argument, goes for the cheap shot. “Presuming by you arrogant character that you must be male”? I didn’t expect that kind of idiocy from someone like you Shadee, I really didn’t. What’s even more hilarious is your declaration a little later, quote:

”You see, Bush Admirer, the difference between you and I is that I don't generalize and I don't stereotype and I don't use racial profiling as a means to victimize and target the innocent.”

Of course you never generalize Shadee, it’s not like calling all men arrogant is a generalization or anything. Such hypocrisy is why I’m writing this post Shadee, because you need to see that if you want to convey your ideas effectively, whether it be as a citizen or as a journalist, you have a great deal of maturing to do. Then there are the personal attacks. It’s always been a romantic hope of mine that everyone in the world be required to take a class on formal logic and debate; it would make debate so much more effective. Here’s a quick lesson for you all: it is a fundamental logical fallacy to substitute a personal attack for a well-supported argument about the issue at hand (ad hominem is the Latin name). This is such a simple guideline, but look back on every post on the site. Can you find examples of people arguing without somehow attacking the other person’s character? No, I’m afraid the temptation is far too great; in fact, in modern legal practice it’s become the norm. Who cares if the defendant is innocent of a crime when you can paint him as loathsome to an impressionable jury? I fully expect some kind of personal attack in any and all responses to this posting, because when you question someone’s intellectual integrity, especially someone so conceited about their intelligence as Shadee, you will inevitably strike on a deep, personal chord. Insecurity will overcome reason, and I’ll be flooded with a torrent of personal attacks, as the recipient of my criticism desperately tries to mend their wounded ego. It’s useful to remember that the root of most all anger is fear of some kind, the most essential of human emotions. So I implore you Shadee, please, don’t give into the lure of sensationalism. You’re well-aware that denouncing someone as a “right-wing Christian” is going to cause controversy. Well you know what, progress is not just about causing controversy. Any idiot can raise eyebrows, any moron with a typewriter can offend and outrage people; it takes someone truly wise to make them think, to make them question. Of course when something’s harder it’s natural that it will be rarer, but excuse me if I hold you to higher standards than the general populace Shadee. Before you can call yourself a journalist or an intellectual, you should begin by reevaluating what those terms really mean. We are not here to hurt each other’s feelings. I’m sure enough people do that in our daily lives as it is. We are all united here under the common trait of intellectual curiosity, we are the citizenry upon which this nation is based, and we are what the very concept of democracy depends upon…if we do not practice reason, how can we expect our leaders to?

"Arrests, Abuse of Middle Eastern Residents Gives America Black Eye"

"Ashcroft has also ordered visitors from 13 other countries considered at risk for terrorism -- Afghanistan, Algeria, Bahrain, Eritrea, Lebanon, Morocco, North Korea, Oman, Qatar, Somalia, Tunisia, the United Arab Emirates and Yemen -- to register by Jan. 10. Men from Saudi Arabia and Pakistan must register by Feb. 21"

"recipe for disaster"?

The Truth Inside
A plea from Tehran.

By Farideh Tehrani

Everyday, my peers and I sit and talk. We want only one thing: Freedom. Basic human rights. The same thing those who fled Iran 20 years ago now enjoy in the suburbs of Los Angeles and Washington. Sometimes I check the Internet for news. At other times, my friends and I watch satellite television or listen to the short-wave radio broadcasts of the freed world.

We are constantly amazed, though, at how different our reality is from what some American journalists, academics, and opinion-makers portray it as. So often, we hear self-described Iran experts on CNN and reporters in America's leading newspapers explain away the dictatorship under which we suffer. We hear them talk about how young people and women still support President Khatami! No. We do not! Yes, Khatami did win elections, but those came absent any real competition. In 1997, he won the election only after his colleagues on the Guardian Council disqualified 234 other candidates. Is that a democracy? Listen to us: We no more want to be part of an Islamic Republic than did the Hungarians, Czechs, or Poles want to be part of a Communist dictatorship.

Understand we want freedom. I am still at the university, but many of my peers are in prison for nothing more than demanding freedom of speech, or waving a bloody shirt. We aspire to establish a democracy based on a modern, liberal, and, yes, the Western model of secularism.

Our reasons are quite simple and obvious: We do not follow the Arab or the Islamic model. Iranians, as a people, do not have problems with Western civilization. We are Muslims, but our sense of Iranian national identity dwarfs any religious identity we hold. We are proud heirs of a once-great civilization that brought forth the concept of tolerance and civility predating Islam. Iranians are comfortable with the simple fact that the West has the best-refined modern concepts of democracy, human rights, and individual opportunity.

To us, the Islamic revolution has failed. The system, in its entirely, is the problem; no Band-Aid reform will fix it. Iran's 23-year-old theocracy is as incapable of granting freedom and human rights as was the Soviet Union. No politician associated with the Islamic Republic is acceptable to us. There are no reformers in the clerical government. Our real reformers are among the 600,000 languishing in prison, or the hundreds of candidates who are disqualified in each election for believing in human rights or secularism. Do not sell out our freedom because of Khatami's meaningless double talk and irrelevant rhetoric. He is simply a smiling face of an ugly regime.

Secretary Colin Powell, Senators Arlen Specter and Chuck Hagel, please understand that Iranians are no less deserving of freedom and equality than are residents of Pennsylvania or Nebraska. You cannot fall for the so-called reformers who by design attempt to sway world opinion with promises, yet fail to deliver a single reform at home. Please understand that Iranians themselves have come to the conclusion that the only solution to our present dilemma is a Western-style democracy, complete with freedom of the press, secularism, equality between sexes, and respect for other religious and political beliefs.

Do not listen to the growing number of organizations like the American-Iranian Council [AIC]. The AIC and its sister groups are nothing more than circuitously funded lobby groups pushing the interest of the Islamic Republic. In America we hear money to campaigns go a long way. Shame, we say, if a few campaign dollars are able to divert the focus away from the issue of freedom and human rights for an entire people.

My peers in Tehran do not understand how the American media and certain policymakers repeatedly fall for the baseless half truths offered by such lobby groups. The streets of Tehran view Americans as good people, yet breathtakingly naive when it comes to their inability to see through the propaganda of the politicians and theocracy that oppress us.

Rather than attend their events or dine with their spokesmen, ask why AIC president, Mr. Hooshang Amirahmadi, has access to unlimited funds to hold lavish galas and conferences that only push policies surprisingly parallel to those of all-powerful Ali Akbar Hashemi Rafsanjani. We want you to know that the AIC and its president in no way, shape, or form represent the Iranian people, especially the hundreds of thousands languishing in jail, nor the hungry, starved or the disenfranchised. The vast majorities of Iranians despise such groups and their leaders and view them as conscience-less business brokers for the unelected few whose days are numbered.

We also ask you: Please tune out the biased and shallow works of journalists who use their pens to editorialize rather than report news. The Los Angeles Times's Robin Wright often calls Khatami "the leading reformer in Iran." How is it that she has such open access to Iran, while her colleagues who report real and hard news are refused visas? Ms. Wright, why is it you have yet to write a single sentence critical of the abhorrent atrocities of the clerical regime? Where are you during our public executions, or the stoning of women that have doubled under Mr. Khatami? Where are your reports on the students languishing in prison, the girls detained, raped, and abused by the Islamic Republic's judges? You call Khatami a democrat yet you neglect his rejection and belittling of the very concept in the pages of Keyhan? Perhaps your Iran expertise does not include speaking Farsi? You quote his liberal speeches in Europe, yet are deafeningly silent about his televised speeches in Iran, declaring: "Those who abide by the Quran must mobilize to kill." To us as Iranians, that is unfathomable. Don't you realize that when we read your work, we ask what good is free press if it does not report the truth?

At this moment in our history, Iranians have limited means to voice our calls to the world beyond the rapidly crumbling walls of the clerical regime. We have a sense of urgency. Yet we feel left behind by the very champions of civil rights, human rights, and liberal reform who once dominated headlines. Don't abandon us now, not at this junction in our history.

— Farideh Tehrani is a 27-year-old woman and a doctoral candidate in Tehran, Iran.

We all agree we don't need this government and corporations running our lives anymore.

Several decades of elections have passed and the same trend continues.

How to take them out now? Voting and democracy is a rigged sham of what it once was. Freedom of speech also.

A simple slogan could be "Boycott all taxes, all corporations, all money - Make friends instead."

They're dependent on money. We volunteers are not.

We can get together and produce things without needing money, they can't.

Without money to pay people government and corporations (govcorp) cannot do anything, they are impotent. Everyone will refuse to work for them without pay. Nobody volunteers for them, nobody likes them.

Don't pay taxes, buy nothing, boycott everything, pay for nothing.

We want to get rid of this government, corrupt big business corporations, media manipulators.

Never give them any money. Tell everyone to do the same.

Don't pay taxes or buy ANYTHING from ANY big company.

Boycott all big brands for everything.

DON'T PAY TAXES - THE GOVERNMENT JUST USES IT TO SCREW YOU

Withdraw money from large banks, use small credit unions

Citibank for example is full of CIA employees and money laundering, search google and read.
Look what happened in Argentina - everyone lost their money as the big banks just refused to give it back.

Don't work for big companies or government - they pay you, but the work you do helps them.

It will be tough at first, but in a while it will be easy to not work, volunteer for change full time, and pay for nothing.

Find people that know how to make clothes and shoes - it's not hard.

Cook food, buy ingredients from farmers or small shops direct, or go to small restaurants

Don't give money to restaurant chains or buy any food from
big supermarkets and big brands.

Get together with others and find ways to build houses or live for little or free.

Make music, don't buy it. Rip music, don't buy it.

Pirate software, don't give money to Microsoft, IBM, etc.

The computer industry is profiting greatly from this homeland espionage system.

Use Linux and GNU free software.

We are intelligent and resourceful people and don't need government corporate messing up our lives anymore.

Most important, get together with friends and do this all in an organized, legal, and always expanding way with other people. Meet regularly, weekly ideally.

Nothing will succeed if it doesn't grow to many other people.

Find and make many friends who want to do this also, don't do anything alone, everything has to grow to continue. Always do everything with with other people.

h00man2@hotmail.com

As the upper classes secure more and more the means of maintaining wealth in their families, with or without qualification, the entire economy takes on a vampirism where in the quality of goods declines so drastically that nearly everything is flawed. Subversion of the non functional upper class becomes a prerequisite to revamping economic functionalism. - JAB

solidarity from Japanese Americans:

"I was appalled,'' said the executive director of the Japanese American Citizens League. ``I felt really bad for the families. Until you go through it, it's hard to understand.''

Critics have scoffed at protesters' comparisons of the detentions with the well-known internment camps that detained 120,000 Japanese and Japanese-Americans from 1942 to 1946.....
But ask someone who is intimately familiar with the events affecting the Japanese-American community after the bombing of Pearl Harbor.



----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anticrisis

I just want to send out a word of solidarity to all of the immigrants who are being forced through this bullshit. People all around this country are with you... we feel this is just racist bullshit.. and another tool of facism that the administration is using...
Please know that there are good people who dont have their heads in thier asses who are trying to help you guys... Patriotic and anti-american the same... we are working steadfastly to stop this oppression that you people are feeling... Dont give up hope and continue to be the model citizens that most NATIVE CITIZENS are not. You people have my and my comrades respect and we are proud and damn lucky to have good people like you here.... Nevermind the racists, anti-immigrants... their voices are few in this ordeal.
Peace be with you and continue to hold your heads high... together we will fight back this repressive organization...
INSOLIDARITY,
Tucson-AZ-activist

update -- 01/07/03: "Protesters gathered in front of Sacramento's Immigration and Naturalization Service office Tuesday (01/07/03) to call for the elimination of... special registration program"

update -- 01/07/03: "Islamic civil rights group urged the United States on Monday to delay a new antiterrorism program requiring immigrants to register with the federal government."

"went to register.... detained for six days."

----------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anticrisis

Samurai, do you have a problem with the laws of the United States? Or do you just have a problem with their enforcement? Are you advocating that we dissolve the INS and offer the benefits of citizenship to everyone on Earth that wants them? Are you willing to pay for these 'rights'?
The laws are clear, and despite the mewling of all these people about how their paperwork was lost by the INS or other such claptrap, they damn well know the law and in many cases simply ignore it. I don't have a problem with an immigrant coming to this country, in fact I encourage them to come. I oppose illegal immigration, however.

updates -- 01/09/03:

"Each day this week, rallies and protests have formed outside the Immigration and Naturalization Services offices all over California...."

"Muslim advocacy group is stationing at least 25 human-rights observers at the Immigration and Naturalization Service office in Orange County on Friday"

"A growing number of Pakistanis who had been living in the United States are crossing the border and seeking asylum in Canada...."

------------------------------------------------------------------------
anticrisis

As the last link shows, this program is working@!!!!!

I don't think anyone doubts that other governments would react in the way the U.S. did. We are just saying that it's unjust.

Every dark cloud has a silver lining. This case is no exception. In its efforts to stop the TRO and convince the Judge, the Government stated that people with pending adjustment applications will not be picked up and many Notice to Appears (“NTA”) will be withdrawn. It was stated that these are Nationwide guidance memos. This was confirmed later by the Los Angeles District Director in a meeting as follows: For the current phase 2 ending Jan. 10, 2003, they expect fewer arrests and fewer bonds. People with pending adjustment of status applications with no adverse factors WILL NOT BE DETAINED. If an NTA is issued, they will be released O.R. if no adverse factors.


For people who were previously detained in phase 1(i.e., Iranians): If there was relief available (I-485 pending), then a letter will be sent saying NTA will be withdrawn. If the NTA has already been issued with the Immigration Court, the INS will consider terminating the case on a case by case basis.


For people who did not register, there will be no late registration, unless there is a "reasonable excuse" for not registering. "Reasonable excuse" will have to be further examined and refined by INS. One example of what "reasonable excuse" might be is the following: "INS L.A. sent notices out to the community and in some cases mistranslations or mistakes occurred. If some misunderstood the notices due to INS error, that may be considered "reasonable excuse" for not showing up." Plain "fear" is not reasonable excuse for failing to show.

Out of status and criminal registrants will be detained and bonds set. Solely having an approved I-130 and a priority date is not immediate relief. If the above decisions were in place, over 90% of the Iranians who were needlessly detained and jailed would have never been jailed. Although too late to stop the jailings for the Iranian American immigrants, at least AIA’s Class Action appears to have made the Government rethink its arrest policy and the fear it causes in the Immigrant Communities. Furthermore, thanks to AIA’s Class Action, 1) many people who would have remained in jail were freed, 2) many people who would have been deported may now not be deported, and 3) the ones who were supposed to be issued NTAs will now not be issued NTAs.

Now, the moral of the story. Without UNITY, we will be nowhere. The Iranian American Community has now learned that it has tremendous power, which it could only harness and exploit by working together, such as the Call-in to the White House, and by defending its rights in the Courts, such as the AIA Class Action Law Suit.

Remember, AIA's Action Plan is still two fold:

First. AIA’s Class Action Law Suit, to release all of the innocent law abiding prisoners. We are reviewing our options and whether to Appeal the TRO decision of Judge Stotler.

Second. The arrests and detentions of Iranians is still an Issue in the Media. We need to keep it that way by calling for a Congressional Inquiry, and by continuing to protest. That way we will keep this Issue alive in the Media until the White House intervenes from the top.

We are in plans with NIAC to start a joint Congressional Inquiry into the Mass Arrests, and you would shortly hear more about this joint project.

Furthermore, as you receive this email, public demonstrations are going on in front of INS building around the US, such as in San Francisco and Los Angeles. To see one of our recent demonstrations, please click on the following link: http://www.allianceia.org/Images/interview.wmv or go to our main website at www.allianceia.org and click on the picture (best viewed with Internet Explorer).

Alliance of Iranian Americans
Babak Sotoodeh
mail@allianceia.org

Freedom of speech, Freedom of Religion and land of opportunity is why most of us leave our loved one's back home and travel to a distant land, but unfortunately most of the great things that made this country and made us come here are being taken away from us one by one. After being held at the immigration office for six days I have wondered if here is really the land of opportunity, the land of the free, to a person who has been here for more than 17 years, teaching at the University of Arizona, gone to high school and college and was in the process of opening a business seemed as if I was having a nightmare when I went to the immigration for fingerprinting, all the hopes that I had for my future in this country was taken away when the INS gave me no bail and sent me to the immigration detention center ( I like to call it Prison), why because I was born in Iran? Now I am sitting at home without a job or business, all my ID's including my licence to drive and my passport have been taken and not yet returned. My freedom has been taken away.
I got nothing to look to in the future except a deportation hearing. They have taken my identity away and all my efforts and hard works of the last 17 years has gone wasted. I am now again an ILLIGAL IMMIGRANT.

Freedom of speech, Freedom of Religion and land of opportunity is why most of us leave our loved one's back home and travel to a distant land, but unfortunately most of the great things that made this country and made us come here are being taken away from us one by one. After being held at the immigration office for six days I have wondered if here is really the land of opportunity, the land of the free, to a person who has been here for more than 17 years, teaching at the University of Arizona, gone to high school and college and was in the process of opening a business seemed as if I was having a nightmare when I went to the immigration for fingerprinting, all the hopes that I had for my future in this country was taken away when the INS gave me no bail and sent me to the immigration detention center ( I like to call it Prison), why because I was born in Iran? Now I am sitting at home without a job or business, all my ID's including my licence to drive and my passport have been taken and not yet returned. My freedom has been taken away.
I got nothing to look to in the future except a deportation hearing. They have taken my identity away and all my efforts and hard works of the last 17 years has gone wasted. I am now again an ILLIGAL IMMIGRANT.

Freedom of speech, Freedom of Religion and land of opportunity is why most of us leave our loved one's back home and travel to a distant land, but unfortunately most of the great things that made this country and made us come here are being taken away from us one by one. After being held at the immigration office for six days I have wondered if here is really the land of opportunity, the land of the free, to a person who has been here for more than 17 years, teaching at the University of Arizona, gone to high school and college and was in the process of opening a business seemed as if I was having a nightmare when I went to the immigration for fingerprinting, all the hopes that I had for my future in this country was taken away when the INS gave me no bail and sent me to the immigration detention center ( I like to call it Prison), why because I was born in Iran? Now I am sitting at home without a job or business, all my ID's including my licence to drive and my passport have been taken and not yet returned. My freedom has been taken away.
I got nothing to look to in the future except a deportation hearing. They have taken my identity away and all my efforts and hard works of the last 17 years has gone wasted. I am now again an ILLIGAL IMMIGRANT.

Jamal,

I am sorry about what is happening to your life but I need more details. Please tell the full story if you want any sympathy.

Do you have any gaps or problems with your visa? Did the INS hold you with absolutely no reason? What kind of visa do you hold? Does it enable you to teach? Was it valid and up to date?

What you wrote tells me nothing.
You were a professor? Means the same as being a taxi driver. That job is no worthy than others and not a reason for staying or going.

You were in the US for 17 years. On its face, so what. If you were simply here illegally for those years than shame on you for cheating and for taking a job from someone here legally and shame on the INS for not catching up earlier and shame on U of A for hiring you. If you entered the country legally, had a valid work visa for your job or had a green card - (not 'thinking about' or 'applying for' or 'meant to') then shame on the INS and I'll decry what happened to you.

Please give all the details.

17 years is a long time. Teaching at a fully accredited University without substantiated documentation to the effect of citizenship or legal residency status seems far-fetched. Not impossible or implausible, just highly unlikely. What were you teaching that you never formalized (if you didn't) your right to stay in the US? If this is a case of blundering on the part of the INS, which is possible, many will side with you. However, the details you provided are just vague enough to lead down the other path...

two nice pictures here:

update -- Tuesday, 01/14/03:

"people who endured the rain at the candlelight rally in Seattle's International District contend that special registration will do nothing for security but will undermine fundamental civil rights and the Constitution."

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anticrisis

Jamal,
Hello? Hello? We're still waiting for your detailed declaration of innocence.

Let's remember that many religions have 'incubated' terrorism in recent years. It's not just Islam that has a fundamentalist movement, although the corporate media would have us all believing otherwise. There are Christian fundamentalists bombing abortion clinics. There's all kinds of violence between Hindus and Muslims on the Indian subcontinent. There's secular-motivated terrorism, people that just go on killing sprees, etc. There was Oklahoma city and the unibomber here in America. Islamic fundamentalism is part of a larger, global shift towards extreme religious ideology. The Koran and the Gospels both advocate peace, and fundamentalists from both religions have twisted the message to justify violence. Don't let CNN or their subsidaries control your mind.

As for the comment that "the Islamic idealogy in the Middle east has left no other option for the American Government," I believe we could turn this around and say "the american ideology has left little option but the emergence of fundamentalist islam" to get closer to the root. America has bullied the middle east using brute force and exports western culture like a commodity. If your land was conquered, you and your children were disinherited, and the guys that did it wanted to assimilate you into their culture (with the necessary consequence that your culture would gradually be forgotten), would you be upset? Would you just let it happen or fight back? Look, this in no way justifies terrorism, but we need to be less myopic here. We simply can't ignore the fact that ideology of 'American exceptionalism,' (the long-standing myth that America is the best, America can never lose, everyone should be like America in economy, politics and culture, and all that crap) provokes hatred from all over the world. American exceptionalism creates the problem by treating the rest of the world without due respect (unilateral war on Iraq: case in point), and by acting like an arrogant international bully. So there's a backlash, not surprisingly. In response, American exceptionalism sees more war, more brute force, as the only solution to the backlash. There are peaceful options for the American government, only this American ideology prevents these guys from taking a look.

Here's some info. on Jamal's situation:

http://www.azstarnet.com/star/fri/30110INSDEADLINE.html

updates 01/16/03:

"U.S. Gives Grace Period on Immigration"

"'White' No More - Unlikely Allies Join Under Homeland Security's Harsh Gaze

-------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------
anticrisis

Sorry Marc,
Your link opens to an error. Could you summarize Jamal's situation. Was/is he here legally? Is he simply an honest, legal immigrant being harassed?

Sorry about the link. It seems to have expired and you need to subscribe in order to peruse their archives. My bad. Here's one that reprints the article and you can decide.

http://arizona.indymedia.org/news/2003/01/6117.php

Again, I sense their is some burden to go around. Surely if I was a foreign national living abroad, and seeking citizenship, I would make it a point to maintain accurate information with the body adjudicating body or government department. I don't want to give the INS a blanket pass on this one, but Mr. Tabatabai must concede he should have taken all due measures to make sure he was on track with what the government needed.
"Tabatabai said he had a work permit when he was detained last month but was unaware it had
expired.
His lawyer, Gloria Goldman, said the permit expired because he had divorced his wife, causing
the INS to deny his application for permanent residency.
"The divorce nullified it," Goldman said.
Never received INS letter
Tabatabai said he never received a letter of denial for his residency application because the INS
mailed it to his former address and it wasn't forwarded to him."

But if the government can issue subpoenas personally and allows e-mails to stand up in court as adequate legal notification, then surely they could have contacted Mr. Tabatabai, who was not in hiding at all.

Ignorance of the law is no defense. He's not a citizen.

'Discriminatory and Counterproductive'

"A national Islamic advocacy group said today that new Justice Department guidelines requiring Muslim and Middle Eastern visa holders to register with the government and be fingerprinted are discriminatory and counterproductive."--press release, Council on American-Islamic Relations, June 5, 2002

"Two al Qaeda suspects were taken into custody as they tried to enter the United States after their fingerprints were matched with ones lifted by U.S. military officials from documents found in caves in Afghanistan, law-enforcement authorities said yesterday."--Washington Times, Jan. 17, 2003

http://www.opinionjournal.com/best/?id=110002930

Not ensuring delivery of his notification is malfeasance on the part of the INS, itself a criminal act.
...and if you read my post, I am not giving Mr. Tabatabai a pass, either. He bears the burden of maintaining accurate information with the INS, which it seems, he failed to do.

Hey, to all the people complaining, listen up. If you are simply visiting this country then you need follow our laws. If you are not a citizen they you do NOT have the same rights as us. The laws are usually fair and are meant to protect the citizens of America. If you don't want to follow our laws then please take a plane ride back to your native country. If you want to follow our laws, then welcome to America. You will be accepted and welcomed here. For those of you complaining, I have kept a record of you IP address and will be reporting your address to the INS. Have fun trying to sleep tonight! If you are illegal here then eventually you will be deported. It is only a matter of time. It would be more productive if you would actually go back to your native country and try to stop terrorism and start promoting tolerance toward others beliefs. Instead of trying to make progress in your native country you want to come to the USA and pollute our population with your DNA. My family came here 200 years ago and worked and followed our laws. Once they became citizens of America they gained the right to complain about America's laws. If you don't like the USA then shut the hole under your nose and GO BACK!

im a hardcore liberal. thats the best fuckin argument ive heard regarding this whole thing bout immigrants. im an immigrant and i admit ur absolutely right.

theres just two things i want to say...

1) im asking not telling you to be nice to immigrants like me. dont jail me just because i look like a terrorist is all i ask. obviously u have the right to fuck me over but if u want to be a really cool person u will not jail me and instead u will tell other people not to jail me just because i have a beard.

2) USA is not a very tolerant society. if u are a minority you would understand this. there is much segregation in the US and everybody shares the same culture. if u allow immigrants like me in and allow me to practice my own culture then the US will be a very nice place to live in. plus us immigrants bring cool shit to america... italian food, chinese food, martial arts and of course "Sheesha" (fruit flavored tobacco shit)

Those brave souls who trust in their constitution, in their government, & believe that INS would not incriminate them, those brave honest souls, who volunteered, & risks deportation or imprisonment to fufill their services & come to the INS offices, those brave souls, in turn where taken advantage of, & their rights & freedoms violated.

These are true victims, people to admire & respect, those who took advantage & abused their power from the INS, shame on you. We will not be silent, because we are a democracy, it is our responsiblity, our constitutional right to protests, & no one has a right to stop or criticise us, how can you jugde us when we are fufilling our duties to those brave souls, wherever they may come from.

Using Sept 11th as an excuse, is both immoral & hypicritical to our countries values, may God have mercy on their souls. Our new century, & our new technology, will not stand for this any longer, the people are stronger we are more prepared then ever in solidarity for justice, a justice that cannot be found from a politician, but from the only real patriot leaders our world has, from the people.

Denial should no longer be acceptable, we should learn from the mistakes of our pass, our government is a representation of a progressive passed, we as soverign citizens no longer may support them, this is protected from our constitution, if a war may start soon a regime change will be inacted & impeachments will be inacted, the world has changed.

Here on our land, in our government, the arms market of the world, the regressive policy of the world sertious change in policy, priorities, & morals will come.

Soon change will come, but much faster then it has in the past we will use the advanced resources we have in this new world, this is a historical moment for our world, who ever does not see that soon will.

Our countries first war, a revolutionary war, I hope our lasts war will be a revolution, but not from violence, Dr. King showed us a new way. Soon the old will be replaced by the new & the new must fufill their responsbilty to its people, the politicians fear us, we have more power, we can prevent this war it is not inevitable!

We must work here, as we see before our eyes, we must not fear, because our cause is based on love, it comes voluntary, not by force, not from fear, their is nothing stronger then the heart of a volunteer & nothing stronger then love, love always will triumph over hate in the long-run & love will conqueor all!!!

In Solidarity,

You think you understand what democracy is? You think you speak so loud and right. Let me tell you something... there is no place in USA for all of you that are iIlegal, middle eastern moslems, you are a future posible terorist threat. We dont like you , we never like you , we'll find all of you and get rid of you from this country.

I agree wholeheartedly! Please help us in wiping those Muslim bastards off the face of the Earth! Enlist in the Zionist army!

hu da hek u callin son of a bitch u brat OSAMA hes my super hero

For Ariel sharon U racist litle smely stinky CHITU gt da hell out of here im a muslim and i cn do wot ever i wnt in this wrld u cnt do any thing to get me outta here.
UNDERSTOOD U LITLE PEA SIZED BRAT!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

What is it about Islam that breeds hatred of Jews that is as intense and vile as that bred by Nazism?

Iranians and others from predominately Muslim countries are asked to register with the INS. Those with GREEN CARDS ( Permanent Legal Residency) and/or who have acquired US Citizenhsip are exempt, thus ONLY those here on temporary visas are required to register. Many are found to be here ILLEGALLY, but its somehow racist to deport them??? WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DON'T YOU UNDERSTAND???? And please stop with the comparisons to Mexicans, there are NONE. For one, there is little threat of TERRORISM from Mexicans, and secondly, they ARE the country right next door, not a 32 hour fucking plane ride away from America. Of course, we need to deport ALL illegals, but starting with Muslims , in this post 9-11 world, makes a lot of sense. Thus, I repeat, WHAT PART OF ILLEGAL DON'T YOU PEOPLE UNDERSTAND??

There should be no borders. There should be no government. Problem solved.

No borders? No government? Sorry sweetie, but this is REALITY. Please come home to it.

What's reality like? I wouldn't know. Please tell me.

www.kobehq.com

when reality is wrong,nothing says you can't change it.

You're right. Just watch our "news."

No borders and no government?

How do you plan to achieve this?

Do you have any concrete, workable plans?

How exactly do you intend to overthrow the Republic?

What will you do about the citizens who don't want your revolution?

How will you deal with the National Guard?

How will you ensure the continuity of essential emergency services?

I've asked these questions of several people who advocate revolution.

And have never gotten any answers.

You are either a joke or an actual imbecile.

Which is it.

My money is on a chick with a low IQ.

Just thought I'd give the revolutionaries another chance to answer my questions.

How exactly do you intend to overthrow the Republic?

What will you do about the citizens who don't want your revolution?

How will you deal with the National Guard?

How will you ensure the continuity of essential emergency services?

I have never heard of NAFTA
or any other trade agreements that essentially allow the World Court to determine foriegn policy thru capitalism.
What about ....The council on foriegn relations?

Or our great president and attorney general
who shoot holes through the constitution
by passing illegal bills
like the Patriot Act and inventing Homeland security
to corral the masses onto government files.
Even GW was allowed to usurp Article 6 of the US Constitution to fight the illegal war in Iraq and noone even noticed.

I have never heard of NAFTA
or any other trade agreements that essentially allow the World Court to determine foriegn policy thru capitalism.
What about ....The council on foriegn relations?

Or our great president and attorney general
who shoot holes through the constitution
by passing illegal bills
like the Patriot Act and inventing Homeland security
to corral the masses onto government files.
Even GW was allowed to usurp Article 6 of the US Constitution to fight the illegal war in Iraq and noone even noticed.

Well you all are full of it, my brother was brought here in 1962 when he was 2 years old, legally and had a green card, stating he us a permanent resisident, but he is getting screwed by ins right now, his constitional rights have been denied, in the mean time his kids are suffering because of the unjust law changes from 1986, he not a terrorist or a murder, he was raised an american citizen just like I was and I was born here in the USA.

""1962 when he was 2 years old, legally and had a green card, stating he us a permanent resisident"" that is NOT a CITIZEN.

A "green card" (actually they are purple but I digress) allows you to WORK in the USA. how can a 2 yo work?

""his constitional rights have been denied"" what rights?. He is protected by the bill of rights, but not all the Constitution.

""he was raised an american citizen"" so why did he not apply for American citizenship then?

If your brother is nit a citizen of the USA then he lives and works here under a WHOLE different set of rules and regulations than you do.

these protests are about as interesting as the nail I clipped off my big toe last night.

The dream is lost yet not forgotten we just have to look for it and find it again.

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