SOME FACTS ABOUT PALESTINE.
SOME POPULATION FIGURES FOR MANDATE PALESTINE.

In 1880 there were	24,000	Jews living among	450,000	Palestinians.
In 1914 there were	56,000	Jews living among	715,000	Palestinians.
In 1922 there were	83,000	Jews living among	663,000	Palestinians.
In 1936 there were	385,400	Jews living among	983,200	Palestinians.
In 1940 there were	467,000	Jews living among	1,050,000	Palestinians.
In 1946 there were	600,000	Jews living among	1,300,000	Palestinians.

THINGS TO NOTE:

In 1880 Jews were ONLY 5.3% of the total population of Palestine (and had been this percentage of the population (or less) for more than a thousand years). In 1946 the Jewish population was almost entirely comprised of recent immigrants (people who had been in the country less than twenty years).

This group of recent immigrants were publicly claiming that the (entire) land belonged to them (apparently they believed that some god had given it to them). These wild claims made non-Jews who lived in Palestine (we will call them Palestinians) very nervous, especially since the Jews claimed to want an ethnically pure state.

These non-Jews were (very) afraid that they would be kicked out of any new entity that claimed to be a Jewish state.

SOME POPULATION FIGURES FOR ISRAEL AFTER THE GREAT JEWISH LAND GRAB OF 1948.

In 1948 there were	155,000	Palestinians living among	716,700	Jews.
In 1951 there were	173,000	Palestinians living among	1,577,000	Jews.

THINGS TO NOTE:

The fears of the non-Jews who lived in Palestine were well founded.

That in 1948 all but 155,000 of the 873,600 Palestinians living in the area that became Israel, were ethnically cleansed from the newly formed Jewish state.

This ethnic cleansing was extremely brutal (and has been well documented).

Quoting Naeim Giladi.

And I began to find out about the barbaric methods used to rid the fledgling state of as many Palestinians as possible. The world recoils today at the thought of bacteriological warfare, but Israel was probably the first to actually use it in the Middle East. In the 1948 war, Jewish forces would empty Arab villages of their populations, often by threats, sometimes by just gunning down a half-dozen unarmed Arabs as examples to the rest. To make sure the Arabs couldn't return to make a fresh life for themselves in these villages, the Israelis put typhus and dysentery bacteria into the water wells.

BEFORE 1948 THERE WERE 475 PALESTINIAN TOWNS AND VILLAGES IN PALESTINE.

SINCE THEN 385 OF THESE HAVE BEEN COMPLETELY ERASED (USUALLY BULLDOZED) FROM THE FACE OF THE EARTH, BY THE JEWS.
The houses, and property that was destroyed had been owned by those Palestinians killed, or forced to flee, by the barbaric tactics of the Jews. These destroyed towns and villages were rebuilt (with new Jewish names) as Jewish only towns and villages. The Palestinians who had been forced to leave were not allowed back. They were not even allowed back into the Jewish state, let alone back to their (now destroyed) towns and villages.

Many Christians support Israel, but they should realize that before the establishment of the Jewish state, Palestine was about 12% Christian (Israel is now about 2% Christian). They should also remember that the Palestinian Christians had lived in the area since about 300 AD (when Palestine was predominantly Christian) and that they shared the land with Moslems from about 700 AD to the creation of Israel, when they were kicked out along with the Moslems (by the Jews).

Palestine's Population During The Ottoman And The British Mandate Periods.
http://www.cactus48.com/truth.html
http://www.nimn.org/history/population.html
Listing and Map of Towns and Villages Ethnically Cleansed/Destroyed by the Jews.

And now lets examine the claim that the Jews bought all the land and thus "now owned it" and were thus "entitled" to ethnically cleanse Palestine.

IN 1880 THE JEWS OWNED APPROXIMATELY 0% OF THE LAND.
IN 1946 THE JEWS OWNED APPROXIMATELY 6% OF THE LAND.
And even this 6% (more precisely 6.66%) of the land is contested. Much of the land was bought from people who had registered the land in their name, but who did not in any sense own the land, but that is another story. The point is that owning 6% of the land (about 20% of the farmland) does not entitle a minority to claim the entire land (even if they claim that some god gave it to them).

Listing and Map of Land Ownership In Palestine As In 1947.

In all this the Jews just acted as a bunch of thieves and criminals.

For those interested, here are 1922-1938 population figures for Palestine (Arab-Jew breakdown).

Year	Arabs	Jews	Total
1922	668,258	83,790	752,048
1923	689,329	89,660	778,989
1924	710,017	94,945	804,962
1925	725,513	121,725	847,238
1926	748,862	149,500	898,362
1927	767,526	149,789	917,315
1928	784,295	151,656	935,951
1929	803,562	156,481	960,043
1930	827,763	164,796	992,559
1931	851,706	172,028	1,023,734
1932	872,079	180,793	1,052,872
1933	895,677	209,207	1,104,884
1934	917,458	253,700	1,171,158
1935	940,724	320,358	1,261,082
1936	966,035	370,483	1,336,518
1937	997,233	386,074	1,383,307
1938	1,018,811	399,808	1,418,619

These figures are from the UNISPAL website.

OTHER ARTICLES FROM NERDCITIES.COM/GUARDIAN.
September the Eleventh 2001.

The World Trade Center.

The World Trade Center Demolition. 740 KB
Evidence of Explosives In The South Tower Collapse. 300 KB
Chapter One of the FEMA WTC Report (with comment). 850 KB
Chapter Two of the FEMA WTC Report (with comment). 1.9 MB
Microsoft Software used to simulate the crash of a Boeing 747 into the World Trade Center.
University of California, Berkeley Professor, Abolhassan Astaneh-Asl Testifies.
Table Of Contents for the WTC-Report.
Appendix B of the WTC-Report.
Appendix D of the WTC-Report.
The WTC-7 Explosion Myth.

The Pentagon.

A Detailed Analysis of whether or not a Boeing 757 hit the Pentagon. 1.4 MB
Photos of Flight 77 crashing into the Pentagon are a Complete and Utter Fabrication.
The Bijlmer Crash - Joe Vialls - Caught in a Lie.
Carol A. Valentine Article Completely Wrong.
The Strange Case of the Sports Utility Vehicle at the Pentagon.
How the size of the plane in the "explosion" photo was calculated.

The Response, Or Rather, Lack Of It.

Air National Guard Mission And Vision Statement.
An example of Air National Guard efficency.
Where was NORAD on September eleven?

Other.

Stranger Than Fiction (from www.whatreallyhappened.com) 600 KB
Evidence that the Arabs are not to blame for the WTC attack.
Seismic Waves Generated by Aircraft Impacts and Building Collapses at the WTC.
Seismic Observations during the September 11, 2001, Terrorist Attack.
Many of the hijackers are still alive.
Israelis arrested on suspicion of 9-11 involvement.
Interesting facts about the World Trade Center.
Sept 11th - Unanswered Questions.

Palestine.

Listing and Map of Towns and Villages Ethnically Cleansed/Destroyed by the Jews.
More on the Towns and Villages Ethnically Cleansed/Destroyed by the Jews.
Listing and Map of Land Ownership In Palestine In 1947.
Brief articles on the 1948, 1956 and 1967 wars started by Israel.
Time line of the Israeli aggression against the Palestinians in the 1948 war.
Brief article on the Israeli attempt to ignite a civil war in Lebanon.
Arafat calls for democratic elections in the United States.
America should fight minorities and aliens the way Israel does!
The Day Israel Deliberately Killed 34 American Sailors.
Brief article on Israeli apartheid.
Israel wins Huge Victory.
Is Israel a Democracy?
Some Israeli War Criminals.
Some articles on the War Criminal Sharon.
The War Criminal Sharon. The Long Version.
The Chinese claim California as a Confucian Homeland.
God gave the Jews New York.
The Genocidal God of the Jews.
Some Zionist Fairy Tales.
Israel mugs the Palestinians.
Muslims base their claim to Palestine on History.
Jewish Terrorism.
Jewish Terrorism targeting the British.
What you can do if you care.

Other.

Why did the US develop the Space Shuttle when the Saturn 5 is so much better?
Why is the US developing the Delta rockets when the Saturn 5 is so much better?
Why is no one allowed to question the Holocaust?

I guess the zionists have no argument with the FACTS presented above.

The arguments I have had with zionists on the internet tell me two things.

They are brain-washed and pretty damn THICK.

amazing post

update

"Israeli troops kill 11-year-old Palestinian girl as Israel Tightens Gaza Grip"

Gee, they kill an 11 year old girl and you "fail to understand" why they haven't gotten "tough". What's your definition of "tough", concentration camps?

"I fail to understand"

You can say that again, Rush Admirer! You fail to understand alright.

WSF - Palestine Dec. 27 - Dec. 30 '02

and then the big one:

WSF - Porto Alegre end of Jan. / beginning of Feb. '03

Weekly report on human rights violations -- 12/19/02 - 12/25/02

nine year old girl

WSF - Palestine

electronic intifada

Weekly report on human rights violations
PCHR, report, 10 January 2003:

"This week, six Palestinians, including three civilians, have been killed by Israeli forces and settlers."

electronic intifada

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anticrisis

update 01/17/03:

"Belgium may revive Sharon war crimes case"

PCHR Weekly report on human rights violations:

9 - 15 January, 2003

The Israeli occupying forces have perpetrated more illegal actions and human rights violations against Palestinian civilians, including extra-judicial and willful killings, shelling of and incursions into Palestinian areas, house demolitions, and agricultural land leveling. This week, 12 Palestinians, mostly civilians, including a mentally handicapped man, were killed by Israeli forces and settlers....

electronic intifada

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anticrisis

OPPORTUNITY FOR PALESTINE?

....our audience is broader than ever before and our messages must address their concerns, many of which do come from coporate propaganda sources. For example, if you count the number of times that corporate media points out Saddam Hussein's defiance of UN resolutions in a day, you might begin to have ideas about how to address that legitimate concern. So one message that would surely resonate with millions now that they all know how sacred UN resolutions are.... we could have easily our biggest protests yet outside Israeli consulates all around the world, specifically demanding that the government of Israel answer for its decades of Saddam Hussein-like defiance of UN resolutions....

electronic intifada

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anticrisis

Here's a little more history of the richly cultured
"palestinian".

The Palestinians want their own country. There's just one thing about that:
There are no Palestinians. It's a made up word. Israel was called Palestine
for two thousand years. Like "Wiccan," "Palestinian" sounds ancient but is
really a modern invention. Before the Israelis won the land in war, Gaza was
owned by Egypt, and there were no "Palestinians" then, and the West Bank was
owned by Jordan, and there were no "Palestinians" then. As soon as the Jews
took over and started growing oranges as big as basketballs, what do you
know, say hello to the "Palestinians," weeping for their deep bond with
their lost "land" and "nation." So for the sake of honesty, let's not use
the word "Palestinian" any more to describe these delightful folks, who
dance for joy at our deaths until someone points out they're being taped.
Instead, let's call them what they are: "Other Arabs From The Same General
Area Who Are In Deep Denial About Never Being Able To Accomplish Anything In
Life And Would Rather Wrap Themselves In The Seductive Melodrama Of Eternal
Struggle And Death." I know that's a bit unwieldy to expect to see on CNN.
How about this, then: "Adjacent Jew-Haters."

Okay, so the Adjacent Jew-Haters want their own country. Oops, just one more
thing. No, they don't. They could've had their own country any time in the
last thirty years, especially two years ago at Camp David. But if you have
your own country, you have to have traffic lights and garbage trucks and
Chambers of Commerce, and, worse, you actually have to figure out some way
to make a living. That's no fun. No, they want what all the other Jew-Haters
in the region want: Israel. They also want a big pile of dead Jews, of
course--that's where the real fun is--but mostly they want Israel. Why? For
one thing, trying to destroy Israel--or "The Zionist Entity" as their
textbooks call it--for the last fifty years has allowed the rulers of Arab
countries to divert the attention of their own people away from the fact
that they're the blue-ribbon most illiterate, poorest, and tribally backward
on God's Earth, and if you've ever been around God's Earth, you know that's
really saying something. It makes me roll my eyes every time one of our
pundits waxes poetic about the great history and culture of the Muslim
Mideast. Unless I'm missing something, the Arabs haven't given anything to
the world since Algebra, and, by the way, thanks a hell of a lot for that
one.

Chew this around and spit it out: Five hundred million Arabs; five million
Jews. Think of all the Arab countries as a football field, and Israel as a
pack of matches sitting in the middle of it. And now these same folks swear
that if Israel gives them half of that pack of matches, everyone will be
pals. Really? Wow, what neat news. Hey, but what about the string of wars to
obliterate the tiny country and the constant din of rabid blood oaths to
drive every Jew into the sea? Oh, that? We were just kidding.

There were people living it that land. They had been living there for hundreds of years. They had grown up there, they had built their homes there, they had had children there. It doesn't matter whether they had a government, a name for themselves, or a passport... it was wrong for the Israelis to have stolen that land from them.

Fresca, are you using your argument to excuse the disgustingly high amount of human rights violations committed by the Israelis?

If so, the Israelis are no better than the Arabs.

X...How about the fact that the first Jewish settlers BOUGHT the land they settled but were systematically attacked by neighboring arabs purely because they were Jewish?

Y...No, this excuses nothing, but it might shed a little light on why Israel reacts the way it does to elements whose sole purpose is the annihilation of the Jewish people. If you think for a moment that dismantling the settlements and handing over Gaza, and the WB will stop virtually every arab state, let alone the murderers of Hamas et. al. from actively trying to exterminate Jews "wherever they are found", you are incredibly misguided.

Indeed the first Jewish settlers bought the land but due to the new system of land ownership imposed by the Ottoman Empire, the purchase of the land was rather unjust. Lands that were collectively owned by the "Palestinian" villages were held in trust, and under the name of a few Palestinian Notables. These Notables later unjustly sold the land to the Jewish settlers (land that was actually collectively owned by the villagers and not by them). Although the sale was unjust, it is conceded that it is the Notables who are at fault for this injustice and not the Jewish settlers. There was nothing illegal bout the purchase of "Palestinian" land by the Jewish settlers. The point is that the Palestinians who attacked the Jews were bitter about the injustice of the land sales and were afraid that the increasing number of Jews entering Palestine would lead to the establishment of a state (worse still a Jewish state) in Palestine. Obviously their fear of the latter was well founded but granted, instead of attacking the Jews they should have taken out their bitterness on the Notables... that was a mistake and injustice on their part. Another point is that it is unfair to say that the settlers were attacked simply because they were Jewish. The "Palestinians" would have felt threatened (rightly or wrongly) by any nation trying to establish a state in an area in which their homes were located (the same way that a New Yorker would have felt if zionists had attempted to establish a Israel in New York - even if they had legally bought the land in New York). Finally, the land that was legally bought was a small percentage of the land inhabited by the "Palestinians".
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Ever since the 1967 war and then later the 1973 war, Arab nations, particularly the Palestinians themselves (whether they like it or not) have come to realize that Israel will not disappear, that it is here to stay. Only extremist groups such as Hamas and Islamic Jihad still believe in the total destruction of Israel. When a Palestinian terrorist (under the orders of a Hamas leader for example), representing a minority, blows himself up in Israel, killing 20 innocent people in the process, Israel responds by reoccupying Palestinian towns, imposing curfews, practicing extra-judicial killings and punishments etc... (in other words they practice collective punishment on those who were not responsible for the bombing itself). This in effect, turns already bitter Palestinians, especially Palestinian youth, into impressionable targets for Hamas and Islamic Jihad brainwashers. (If you have noticed, it is not the leaders of these organizations themselves who practice suicide bombings, for they are cowards and lack the convictions of their own words - therefore they prey on the Palestinian youth, turning them into "instruments of evil"... more suicide bombers). Consequently, Israeli military responses are not helping to stop the cycle of violence but are rather adding fuel to the fire so to speak.

So why is it that Israel, not the Palestinian "nation" should cease its offensive military or terrorist operations first in order to break the cycle of violence? Frankly, It is because Israel is a highly organized and successful state and actually has the capability to stop a military operation (i.e. if a general orders a cease-fire the troops will obey orders). It is unrealistic for the Israelis to believe that the (let's say pathetic) Palestinian state can control the actions of certain fringe elements. It unrealistic to think that Hamas will listen to even a full-hearted call to end Palestinian terrorism from Yasser Arafat or ANY Palestinian leader.

The fact is that Hamas and Islamic Jihad will not stop until either Israel is destroyed or until they are destroyed. My point is that Israel cannot destroy the fabric of Palestinian terrorist organizations through its military incursions into Palestinian territories as their actions will in effect CREATE more terrorists.

What Israel must do is accept responsibility for the displacement of the hundreds of thousands of Palestinians from their homes in Israel and acknowledge that it was a grave injustice. In return the Palestinians should acknowledge that their insistence on the Right of Return is selfish and would create yet another injustice (i.e. if Israelis who, just as the Palestinians were, born and brought up in the area were forced to move to accomodate returning Palestinians). Israel should also relinquish control of 100% of the W. Bank and Gaza, help create a Palestinian state with E. Jerusalem as its capital and encourage the US to provide huge economic aid packages to rebuild the Palestinian state. By creating a moderate Palestinian society, the roots of terrorism will eventually die off. Needless to say, this time period will call for ENORMOUS restraint on the part of Israel - but in the long run the price will be worth it. Perhaps a joint Palestinian-Israeli security team or anti-terrorist task force could then operate more efficiently within both states to root out the leaders of terrorist organizations.

Why I believe Israel should make such massive concessions is because it is the only side that has the capability to make these concessions. It is ridiculous to think that the Palestinians in their current pathetic state can call for even a cease-fire.

X...Thanks for your post. You've raised some points which I have to admit make sense and have given me a little different outlook on the situation. Honestly.

thank you fresca for having an open mind

01/27/03 update:

"Israel killed 13 Palestinians, including a six-year-old boy, yesterday in a raid deep inside Gaza City."

01/25/03 updates:

"At 9 o'clock yesterday morning the Israeli military destroyed all of the bridges the lead in and out of Beit Hanoun in the north of the Gaza Strip. Israeli tanks and helicopters then shelled the town for 18 hours."

....'Abla Sa'adat, Addameer's representative to the WSF III, was detained while traveling to the World Social Forum in Brazil as a delegate representing Addameer on 21 January 2003. She is being held for "four months of administrative detention"....

PCHR Weekly report on human rights violations:

16 - 22 January, 2003

Israeli occupying forces have perpetrated more illegal actions and human rights violations against Palestinian civilians, including willful killings, shelling of and incursions into Palestinian areas, house demolitions, and agricultural land leveling. This week, from 16-22 January 2003, 3 Palestinians, including 2 civilians, were killed by Israeli forces.....

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opportunity for Palestine?

anticrisis