Hello Everyone, my name’s Andy. I killed a Police Officer in Red Bluff, California in a motion to bring attention to, and halt, the police-state tactics that have come to be used throughout our country.

Now I’m coming forward, to explain that this killing was also an action against corporate irresponsibility.

All of the major problems in America and throughout the world today are caused by corporate irresponsibility.

The very concept behind corporations is to protect their owners from taking responsibility for their actions. This means that directors within corporations can dump waste chemicals in our drinking water, or keep our work environments in fatally dangerous conditions without any personal liability. Corporations murder thousands of people each year this way and are never held accountable.

As a statement against this practice, prior to my action in Red Bluff, I formed a corporation under the name “Proud and Insolent Youth Incorporated,” so that I could use the destructive immunity of corporations and turn it on something that actually should be destroyed.

The name ‘Proud and Insolent Youth’ is a reference to Peter Pan.

Just before their final dual and Captain Hook’s demise, Hook said to Peter, “Proud and insolent youth, prepare to meet thy doom.”

To which Peter replied, “Dark and sinister man, have at thee!”

Now, Peter Pan hates pirates, and I hate pirates, and corporations are nothing but a bunch of pirates. It’s time to send them to a watery grave, and rip them completely out of our lives.

The top 4%, the richest people in America, have more money than the lower 50% of the country combined. And it’s not because they scrimp and save or because they are somehow more deserving. It’s because they cheat and steal and twist the rules to their advantage.

They shatter smaller companies, downsize their own companies, and ship their own factories overseas or across the border to make fortunes in immoral money games. The people who lose out in this are the workers, the people who actually make things of value.

The question corporate capitalists have asked themselves is ‘why empower workers in America to demand better wages, better working conditions, and equal social rights, when you can ship those jobs off to a Colombian or Sri Lankan who can be forced to work under slave-like conditions?’

Don’t think the government is going to help us. Our government leaders are getting paid by them.

Selling out to the rich is inherent to political survival.

In order to afford dazzling election campaigns and make it into their positions of power in the first place, politicians will sell out to whoever can offer them the most money.

Likewise, the corporate lobbies that constantly press themselves upon our lawmakers have both billions of dollars at their disposal and great influence upon which laws are blocked or passed.

These things combined together means that someone who dedicates their lives to making other lives better will never be able to have the same political influence as someone who destroys lives and the environment in the pursuit of money.

Any laws established in the past that protect the American people, the environment, or smaller companies over corporate profits, our lawmakers will sweep away through Deregulation.

Corporate executives and well-preened conservative politicians talk about Deregulation in terms of ‘getting the government off our backs.’ This is because the role of the government is to protect its citizens, and ensuring that workers are protected costs these rich people money. But Deregulation simply gives corporations free reign over their markets, enabling them to overwhelm and envelope smaller companies, destroying our rights and natural resources along the way.

The government is also willing to look the other way while these same people claim outrageous tax breaks. Corporate executives buy gold-plated plumbing fixtures, stay in ,000 a night hotel suites, take ,000 wine-tasting classes, or buy ,000 worth of rugs, and then have their corporations write these expenses off on their taxes. This means that those of us who actually do pay our taxes end up footing the bill for these luxury items!

Laws are even invented specifically for corporations which enable them to avoid paying taxes in ways that the average person is denied.

Through the IRS’s Net Operating Loss deduction, corporations can demand back tax money they’ve paid if they lose money in their business. When you are just barely able to afford rent, and groceries, are you allowed to ask for your taxes back? No.

Yet many multibillion-dollar corporations finagle their way out of paying any taxes at all. And still, some politicians are willing to badmouth ‘Welfare’ as the big inefficiency of our tax system. But less than billion dollars is spent on Welfare annually, whereas over 0 billion is given away to big business each year to help them do things they should pay for themselves, such as buying new equipment or advertising their products. This ‘Corporate Welfare’ is even claimed by some experts to soak up 0 billion dollars of our national budget. This is even outside of the tax money corporations save, and the other hundreds of billions of dollars given away to corporations for other reasons.

Corporations will not voluntarily give up their dominating power of political immunity and the financial wealth it gains them. And with all our government leaders either personally connected to corporations or sold out to them, if we try to remove this corporate influence by ourselves, we will find ‘the Law,’ with all its weight, upon us.

Our politicians have no serious proposals for the problems of health care, unemployment, crime, disappearing pensions, or any of the pressing social issues that actually afflict us, yet they vote themselves raises every year. They vote themselves solid health care plans. They vote themselves hefty pensions. What about our health care? What about our pensions? Why don’t they watch after us the same way they watch after themselves?

It’s because if we had the opportunity to provide ourselves all of these things, the politicians and CEO’s wouldn’t be able to take the money for themselves. Having to spend all of our time to meet our middle and lower class needs means that we will not have time to fight against the forces that are actually pressing us into this situation. And the inevitable competition that results from this lifestyle splits us up, so that we cannot unite in an effort to destroy it.

The only uniting we are allowed is against the common enemies we are doctored to believe in, the foreign ‘terrorists’ who come to attack us. But these ‘terrorists’ do not violently attack the United States because they hate freedom, or because they think blowing themselves up is cool. They use violence against the U.S. because U.S. corporations and the U.S. government are murdering their families and destroying their countries.

As demoralizing as corporations make our lives, and as bland as they make our culture here in the U.S, corporations practice their immunity in far more brutal and murderous ways in foreign countries.

We are lead to believe that Third World countries are under-developed because the people living there just somehow don’t have the intelligence to drag themselves out of poverty.

The truth is that the people of these Third World countries know exactly how to get themselves out of their economic ruts, but are forcefully kept from doing it because of a dominating U.S. influence. These people want to develop their own industrial and technological industries by putting tariffs on U.S. products. But they can’t do this because the World Trade Organization (WTO) which is both dominated by U.S. corporations, and has the authority to regulate third world use of tariffs, prevents them from doing so.

Tariffs on U.S. products sold within Third World countries would raise their prices and ease consumption of them. This would give third world industries space in the market to strengthen themselves. Using tariffs in this manner is a fundamental tool for any country to develop into a more powerful nation, but the WTO is perpetually keeping them from doing it, just so U.S. companies can sell their own products there.

This is the exact same situation the American colonists were protesting when they threw the Boston Tea Party.

Furthermore, while these countries economies are weak, the International Monetary Fund (IMF) takes advantage of this weakness and forces them to restructure their national production in ways that are simply murderous- preventing farmers from producing crops to sustain themselves and their communities, and instead churn out more of whatever luxury products the U.S. and other developed countries want.

The IMF places such a high interest rate on its loans and restructures its debtor nations in such ridiculous ways, that these nations become locked perpetually in a poor, subservient role, unable to pay even the interest on their debts.

Then, when Third World peasants hold their own ‘Tea Parties’ and revolt against this foreign domination over their lives, corporate lobbyists cry foul and the U.S. military is called in to protect ‘U.S. interests.’ Soon following, a corrupt, U.S.-friendly government is installed, or reinforced: one that will accept blood money to do what the U.S. tells it to, and do whatever it takes to keep its own people from interfering with the U.S. role of economic supremacy.

George Kennan, the most powerful voice in U.S. foreign policy following World War II, clearly gave away these brutal motives for U.S. dominance when he said-

“[America has] about 50 percent of the world’s wealth, but only 6.3 percent of its population. In this situation, we cannot fail to be the object of envy and resentment. Our real task in the coming period is to devise a pattern of relationships which permit us to maintain this position of disparity… To do so, we have to dispense with all sentimentality… We should cease to talk about vague and unreal objectives such as human rights, the raising of living standards and democratization… The less we are hampered by idealistic slogans the better.”

American government’s collaboration with big corporations has turned America from a Republic into an Empire. In the same spirit that Rome was an Empire, raping foreign lands for labor and resources- in the same spirit that Britain was an Empire, which caused us to turn from Her in hatred.

Just as Rome and Britain did, America has military bases all over the world. How many foreign bases are established in the U.S.? How many would the American people allow?

We’re told a series of lies to make us willing to believe that having our military spread across the globe is reasonable.

The conscience of the American public is satiated with racist rhetoric, proclaiming us the ‘true defenders of freedom,’ and ‘the world’s one and only hope.’

We are told that we are the policemen of the world. We are told that our unique national position gives us the responsibility to check and balance other countries. We are told that the western citizen values life more than the overpopulated third world savages.

We are raised on something that sounds a little like this-

“We are more valuable than the others, who outnumber us and will always outnumber us. We are more valuable, because our blood has fitted us to be more inventive than the others, to be better leaders of our people than the others, because it has fitted us to be better soldiers, better statesmen, to attain a higher culture, to be better characters.”

That was Heinrich Himmler who said that, Hitler’s associate, speaking of why it was necessary for Germany to dominate the world.

Americans are no more naturally gifted with human capabilities than any other people in the world, and our lives are no more valuable than any other people in the world, either.

But these lies work because we want to believe them. It feels good to believe them.

Our leaders fervent our desire for war abroad and a police state at home by telling us that these people fighting for their freedom are ‘terrorists.’ Then they promise to protect us by destroying them through a process that will simply require us to give up a little freedom, and send our soldiers far over seas.

Hermann Goering, Hitler’s master of propaganda, explained the process like this-

“Why of course the people don’t want war. Why should some poor slob on a farm want to risk his life in a war when the best he can get out of it is to come back to his farm in one piece? Naturally the common people don’t want war: neither in Russia, nor in England, nor in Germany... But, after all, it is the leaders of the country who determine the policy, and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy… or a communist dictatorship… the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is tell them they are being attacked, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. It works the same in any country.”

Does that formula sound familiar?

Successful campaigns of conquest must have a cover story to gain the support of the people who will be forced to fight in it. They are given a common enemy and distracted from their problems at home. The Nazis focused on the injustices of the Versailles treaty to motivate the German people into conquering Europe. We used to focus on ‘communism’ to steal all throughout Central and South America, and other parts of the rest of the world. Nowadays we focus on ‘terrorism’ to go into Afghanistan and Iraq. Notice how the reaction from the average American to the dual knowledge that we didn’t know where Osama Bin Laden was, but were still going to attack Afghanistan anyways, was, “Well, we gotta do something.” Yes! But let’s review our options first!

George Bush isn’t sending our soldiers all over the world to protect American or any other innocent lives. This becomes obvious when we realize that the U.S. military has killed more innocent civilians in Afghanistan than were killed in the World Trade Center, and that the family members of these innocent civilians are more devoted to anti-American ‘terrorism’ than ever before.

The only way to stop ‘terrorism’ is to stop raping and destroying the places ‘terrorists’ are from.

The real reason for sending our soldiers-

1- There is an OIL pipeline soon going into Afghanistan that has been long planned, but that the Taliban would not allow U.S. companies to build.

2- Iraq is sitting on top of one of the richest OIL fields in the world.

The truth is that George Bush is risking our soldiers and killing foreign innocents so that he can STEAL OIL.



The U.S. military is being used to steal this Oil. But our military does not exist to murder people so that the American rich can steal these dead people’s resources. It exists to protect our country and our lives. The government and corporations have bastardized our military away from us, endangering us and our soldiers for their own monetary gain.

They’ve been doing it for a long time.

But many veterans, after leaving the service, step back and look at U.S. foreign policy to see it for what it is.

As a response to President Reagan’s imperialistic attacks throughout Central America in the 1980’s, Charles J. Liteky, veteran and holder of the Congressional Medal of Honor, publicly renounced and returned his Medal. The Congressional Medal of Honor is the most coveted, highest possible honor a U.S. service-person can receive, and Liteky basically said, ‘If this is what our military is about, then I don’t want it.’

But even further back than that-

Major General Smedley Butler, a U.S. Marine, looked back on his 33-year career, which took him to combat in over 5 different countries, and determined that, “War is a racket… conducted for the benefit of the very few at the expense of the very many.”

Smedley Butler attained the highest rank possible at the time and was awarded two Congressional Medals of Honor throughout his career. Once he retired, though, he realized and publicly stated that he had given all those years and sweat and blood, simply to make foreign lands safe for Wall Street. Butler proclaimed, “To Hell with War!” and went on to state that to get rid of War we must take the profit out of War.

I, myself, am an Army veteran, not so well-decorated as the Gentlemen I mention. Nevertheless, I am a graduate of the U.S. Army Ranger School, Airborne School, and Jungle Operations Training School.

The American government is violent all over the world to protect its ill-gotten money and goods.

But the American People don’t have the right to profit off foreign deaths and silently enjoy our position, then scream bloody murder when those foreigners react to our violence with violence.

If we refuse to recognize what our government is doing and why, if we refuse to realize that American lives are no more, and no less, valuable than other nation’s, then we deserve the ‘terrorism’ that we are forcing these people to commit.



So our government is sold out to corporations, and corporations are destroying the world.

Let’s do something about it!

Which is why I incorporated in the State of New Hampshire. The New Hampshire State Constitution, in the Bill of Rights, guarantees the Right to Revolution. I quote-

“Government being instituted for the common benefit, protection, and security of the whole community and not for the private interest or emolument of any one man, family, or class of men; therefore, whenever the ends of government are perverted, and public liberty manifestly endangered and all other means of redress are ineffectual the people may and of right ought to reform the old or establish a new government. The doctrine of nonresistance against arbitrary power and oppression is absurd, slavish and destructive of the good and happiness of mankind.”

I’m going to utilize the WTO’s tactic of applying to a foreign state the laws of the state in which I was incorporated.

I encourage everyone else to do the same.

I’m opening the board of directors of Proud and Insolent Youth Inc. to anyone who wants to be a part. It’s your corporation. There are an infinite amount of stocks and they’re all free. Anyone can have one; you don’t even need a certificate.

Proud and Insolent Youth Inc. is the corporation to destroy all other corporations. Our mission statement- Whoever abuses their corporate immunity to harm life and liberty, we will destroy through the use of our own corporate immunity.

It’s foolish to whine to politicians while allowing them and the police to bluff and bully you.

Let their oppression fuel your fire. Allow your passions to fertilize the seeds of constructive revolution. Allow your love of freedom to overcome the false values they place on human life. It’s too easy to forget the controlling things that corporations and the government do and lapse into apathy. Stop forgetting right now.

Recognize that the ‘Justice System’ always either kills justice or leaves it sitting too long, stealing away our lives while we wait. We have other things to do with our lives! We came into this world, not only to make it a good place to live, but also to live in it.

There are many different ways to effectively resist, both violent and nonviolent. Both are necessary. Don’t do anything you’re uncomfortable with, and don’t pressure anyone else into anything they’re uncomfortable with.

You have the power to nonviolently shut everything down! You can simply stop. No buses, no factories. A Nationwide Strike until corporations come out from behind their shields and the government meets your demands.

You must all join together and work together for this! Young and Old! Gay and Straight! Men and Women! Races of every description!

It is time to put ourselves out there on the line and risk to reach out for the Paradise we all desire. We can make this world better!

Young people of America!- I am here to tell you- you will not grow up and suddenly realize that you were wrong and that all the older people, who are sold out to the system, were right. Teenagers!- that impulse for freedom that you feel within yourselves, which everyone else seems to be trying to silence- it is not simply a product of your age, as so many would have you believe, it is Life, tugging at you, asking you to actually be Alive! The systems of control that surround you, which you hate, do not get better as you age. The control gets more invasive, more complete. Smash it while your youth still helps you to see it!

Everyone!- Remember that the authorities will lie to you. They will try to make you distrust one another. Trust each other in spite of the disinformation they feed you. Don’t believe any rumors you hear until they are confirmed. Different views and different tactics are okay, but communicate with one another! Especially when you are two autonomous groups collaborating. Communicate and don’t believe rumors.

Communicate with the liberal press, and with indymedia.

This system of oppression is not a solid unstoppable force. They just have really good reflexes and are good at the game. It feels unstoppable because you don’t know how they operate. Learn. Study them. Follow them. Photograph them. Don’t just call them apparitions and give up trying to understand them.

Spy on the spies.

Convert them. Convert the soldiers, the cops.

They are all intelligent, capable people.

Most of them aren’t aware of these injustices, or fight to convince themselves that they’re not there, so that they can still do their jobs. Help them see. Help them come to your side. They’ll make powerful allies.

All police and all soldiers and all spooks are frustrated with their jobs. Their leaders weigh them down with paperwork, and never deploy them to the hilt of their capabilities. They are all dissatisfied with the ways their out-of-touch leaders command them about. These foot soldiers simply want to be strong, and have accepted the official politics handed to them. Give them better politics and better strength. Offer them a better world and they will come over.



Manifest the World you want to live in!

Do this for yourselves.

If this be treason, make the most of it.



And finally, I must address Mister Bush, the one in the Oval Office-

Mister Bush,

The Presidential election process in our country has been taken away from the American people. Through the combined existence of the electoral college and the campaign funding process, it is guaranteed that any candidate actually willing to care for the good of the people will never get elected. Beyond this, even within the confines of this system, you were never actually elected with a popular vote from the American people.

Please set in place a democratic, beneficial election system and step down from the Presidency. Al Gore, who was popularly elected through this flawed system, shall serve as the temporary President until a True Representative of the People is determined.






God Bless Us, Every One,

Andy

indymedia created this lunatic. I have been predicting something like this would happen for more than a year. I have tried to make these liberals look as stupid as possible in the hopes they might not take themselves seriously. I obviously failed.

Now an innocent man is dead because of some brainwashed sf imc propaganda fed militant.

I am looking into filing a wrongful death class action lawsuit. Possibly against the entire IMC network.

I want to watch this thing crumble.

Gentlemen, I must disagree. This individual is a murderer. He will be tried and hopefully executed for his crime. The fact that he may have posted here or may have gotten inspiration here doesn't absolve him of his responsiblity for his actions. A forum for debate should not be held responsible for the acts of a depraved individual. Let the courts punish him, let the debate continue. Indeed, in this case, had the killer not wanted to advertise his act on indybay, he would have been harder to track and apprehend.

Don't misunderstand me, there is much to dislike in what one reads here. But words cannot kill. Only the individual can. He is responsible, and he alone for his actions. I hope to see him executed.

While the meessage this person espouses may have some validity and may have been developed by information OTHERS posted on indymedia sites, he must be held accountable for his own actions. Which are simply reprehensible. If one were to hold indymedia accountable for his actions, then that same logic would hold the US gov't responsible for the actions of our DC area sniper. While the gov't didn't tell that individual to go out and kill American citizens, it gave him the tools and training to undertake such a mission. It was a forum. Much like indymedia. Without direct instructions, you can not hold either accountable. That SHOULD ring clearly to Republicans who advocate "personal responsibility."

hmmm, didn't tipor gore do this in the eighties? blame hollywood movies, music (and especially Ozzy) for all the violence in society.

you right wing trolls are total nutbags (that is assuming you are more than one person, which i suspect that you are not!).

go ahead and try to "sue" the entire IMC Network...heh heh, you fucking moron. good luck. can't wait to see you sue IMC Argentina, Brazil, UK, etc etc. your a sad loser.

too bad for the cop, he didn't deserve to get shot like that...no one does. but watching you fucks try to blame indymedia for it is quite entertaining. so why the fuck do you spend *all* your time here, day after day after day? ohh, that's right, you get PAID to do this!! get a life.

000

"Let the debate continue" blah blah blah...

Let's just keep on fiddling while Rome burns. That's bullshit liberal logic. It's time for militant action against these indybay pricks! We've tolerated them long enough. I feel exactly the same way about this as I did about the terrorists on 9/12/02.

Why don't we just keep debating why terrorism is a bad thing and stay the fuck out of Iraq. In the meantime we can release all those Al Queda and send 'em back to Afghanistan and put the taliban up in the Hilton Hotel while we put their country back together for 'em until we can reinstate them as the ruling class.

WAKE THE FUCK UP!! A man has been slaughtered. These bastards not only condone it, they are indirectly responsible.

I know there are MANY out there that will agree with me. I'm tired of talking about it. Fuck this forum. We might not be able to take down IMC Moscow or IMC Chechnya or IMC Beijing. But we can God Damned well take legal action against SF IMC. I don't see the need to debate this further in any forum other that the courtroom in the presence of a jury.

Sue me, too. i've always wanted to be accused of being part of a vast conspiracy to incite some lunatic to kill BASED ON SOMETHING HE READ!!! Shall we sue Ann Coulter for calling for flying a plane into The New York Times building? (Actually, that may not be such a bad idea.....flying the plane, I mean. That paper is such a load of neo-"liberal" crap..). Or Soldier of Fortune magazine for inciting the DC sniper? Or the National Review for inspiring right-wing militias? Of course not!! That would be disgusting!

Violence--physical violence-- breeds violence. And people, like this cop killing asshole, do evil things because they CHOOSE to do them, not because they are "oppressed" or because they were "incited" by some political rhetoric.

Thank you. Thank you very much.

Or possibly a stoning. The guillotine is too humane. I'm thinking chain the fuckers to a cesspool and let the leaches have their way with 'em.

Look. Maybe I’m getting a bit extreme with threatening legal action. Maybe not. I’m not after all the millions of dollars that I’m sure all the civil disobedients at Indymedia have in their fat money market checking accounts. I’m certainly not a diabolical tyrant attempting a treacherous assault on free speech. I am just one person who is fed up with radical liberalism in this nation and feel like it does us all more of a disservice than ANY amount of good that comes from it.

These people bleat and squeal when someone challenges their precious and abusive use of freedom of speech as if we’re threatening to cut off their oxygen supply. Most of them don’t deserve to be protected under the 1st Amendment because you don’t understand the meaning of the word “responsibility”. They shout “Fuck the Pigs”, and “Burn the Flag” and any anti-American, anti-Government, anti-capitalist, or anti-police rhetoric at the drop of a hat and then screech about how “it’s my right to do so” or “ever hear of freedom of speech?”

Most of these pricks don’t care that that cop is dead, nevermind the fact that his child is fatherless. They cheer it on, like that bastard that pulled the trigger is some kind of hero. But what’s worse than that is that this was going on long before this incident. I didn’t just stumble on to indybay yesterday. I’ve been posting there for more than a year and always under this same name. Look back through the indybay archives, and read some of the things I’ve written. Time and again I’ve confronted pedophile enablers, anti-American Revolutionaries and extremists, and police haters. I have withstood every single verbal assault that these people have launched on me, and I have only been driven further into my position of love and support for my country because of their attacks. I feed off of them in that regard. And I knew it was just a matter of time before one of these imbeciles took himself seriously and took to the gun, all in the name of anti-globalism, anti-Americanism, anti-police state totalitarianism or some other such ridiculousness.

Now you guys are screaming “words don’t kill”. Well, I submit that yes, in fact they do. Words incite violence. There’s no debating that; if you debate that you are an idiot. Some people are strong and thick skinned and can take insult after insult and some people will jack your freaking jaw just for looking at them the wrong way. Some people that read and post to indymedia are intellectual types that just want to debate for the sake of enlightenment, and some want to incite a Revolution. The former being a more docile specie than the later. But the common link here is IMC. And when one of these freaks carries this rhetoric too far and kills someone, well folks, the time for fun and games is over.

Freedom of speech? I’d die for it. I risked my life for 12 years in the military, through Desert Storm, for the values, ideals and freedoms of this country. If you want to pipe up about how anti-American I am you at least better have a track record equivalent to mine. Otherwise your $.02 means squat to me. And I honestly don’t care if mine means squat to you. I wouldn’t be posting to indymedia if I cared what people thought about me and my opinions. I’ve never seen posted or written anything their personally, that was supportive of America without witnessing an onslaught of attacks by liberalist, leftist, extremist radicals. I guess it makes them all feel like big men and women to bad mouth America, having never personally attempted to do anything to make things better, or to offer and valuable solutions to their perceived problems with this country.

Why have do I persist in posting to IMC if I hate it so? There’s a whole heap of reasons, none of which are “because I get paid to do it”. Politics is a big one. I’m politically active and love to confront the political opposition. Oh certainly I could go to Free Republic and blather on, but you don’t go to the Church to save sinners. I also want to keep my eye on you liberals. You’re dangerous people and have to be watched. The reason you’ll scream so loudly about that statement is because you know it’s true. How many times have I seen you banter on about “COINTELPRO” and all your “Orwellian” horse shit? “Big brother is watching us”, “there’s spooks in this forum” and “Homeland Security is just an excuse for the government to monitor our bank accounts, credit cards and telephone calls.” Well here’s a fucking news flash for you: If you weren’t guilty of conspiring then you wouldn’t give a shit who the fuck was listening! You’d be just like me. I don’t give a fuck which one of you reads my post, hears what I have to say, listens to my phone calls, monitors my bank account or takes photographs of who I’m fucking for that matter! I honestly couldn’t care less! I’m not guilty of shit, I have right on my side, and I fucking know it! So feel free, knock yourself out, and have a freakin’ ball! Whether you’re the government or the IMC collective, if you wanna know what I’m involved in, just come to my house, knock on the door and ask me. I’ll invite you in, offer you a cup of coffee and we’ll certainly chat about it.

But you fucks. Somebody needs to be watching your every move. When someone claims IMC is the bastion of communications and then goes out and kills a cop, somebody needs to keep their beady little eyes on you pricks.

Maybe a lawsuit is too much. Maybe not, hell I don’t know. I need to steep over this some more. Maybe a letter writing campaign to the new Department of Homeland Security. I just fucking don’t know. I do know that I’m sick debating this shit with you assholes. No one ever reads a fucking word I write. It’s like they cover there eyes and only read what they want to see and fuck the rest.

Debate. Fuck Debate. Let a fucking jury decide. That’s probably the best idea. What’s wrong with that idea anyway? You sickos want to debate, let’s take this forum national and prime time. We’ll make it like the OJ trials. Fuck yeah. Debate. Let the nation see you fuckers burning the flag and cussing the cops. There’s some debate for ya. Then a jury of your peers can decide who’s right and who’s wrong. It’ll be all about democracy, voting and such. Thumbs up or thumbs down, just like we’re at the coliseum. Debate.

Fuck your debate.

before you do anything else forgive, until then you act against practicality to happiness (which is your happiness)

AKA pride IS what's wrong

>before you do anything else forgive, until then you act against practicality to happiness (which is your happiness)

>AKA pride IS what's wrong

What is it with you bizarre liberals with your endless rants and wacked out logic? How come you didn't tell Andrew McCrae that shit before he pulled out that gun and popped a cap in that police officer. I'd love to have seen that conversation in this forum...

Andrew: Fuck the corporate world Biatch! I'm gonna bust a cap in some unsuspecting cop to protest anti-globalist corporate tyranny of my peace loving revolutionaries!

David the loveslut liberal: No wait my sweet brother! Before you take action, put aside your pride and love thyself! It's the key to your hapiness! Forgive!

Andrew: Fuck that! I'll swallow the soul of the demonic corporations by using my right to Rebellion as guaranteed under the the capitalist conspiracy monger constitution of New Hamshire by extermination of a cop in the one state where I can most likely beat the death penalty when the catch my sorry ass!

Loveslut: Forgive! Turneth thy other cheeketh! Fogive the corporations! Forgive the police! Forgive the tyranny of the capitalist plutocracy of the Empire city-state of the anti-democratic Republic. It's the key to your everlasting happiness!!!

You fucking liberals are entertaining as hell, until one of you pulls out a gun. Then I say, "Fuck the whole lot of ya."

Round there fucking sorry liberal asses up and heard them the fuck all off a cliff.

Oh for crying out loud, lets stop the insanity. The creep Andy is a murder plain and simple, yet we see those of you on the Liberal fence dancing around the subject of why did Andy feel the need to murder.

His excuse, President Bush wasn't elected, and big companies take all the money, America has all the wealth, we need a socialist government etc...

Now where on earth could he have come up with such a notion? Hmm lets harken back to something Senator Daschle said not long ago. Rush is the cause of the Shrill nature of politics, he flames the fire and causes people to react by calling him unAmerican.

Now, lets see, Rush has his listeners call in with complaints, and Left wing web sites like Indymedia, DemocraticUnderground, flame the fires of pure, hate.

Hate for President Bush, and hate for America.

Andy most obvious has a left wing chip on his shoulder, and hasn't gotten over the 2000 elections. Andy forgot to keep his anger on paper and the internet, instead tried to gain his 15 min. of fame via his rant and murder.

I pray for the police officers family, and loved ones, he leaves behind someone who looked up to him as a great role model, and thought the world of him. Yet here we sit in comfort of our living rooms, bedrooms typing and debating with each other about who is to blame.

Thanksgiving is one day away, and we'll sit around the family table, feasting on large amounts of food, and gathering with OUR loved ones. He won't have that pleasure, because some idiot with a "Cause" felt the need to further it by killing an innocent human being.

Oh sure some of you will find the need to stop the punishment of Andy, for in your mind he just murdered a cop, and heck he could have been set up. Remind you of someone else you defend?

IMC is a lot less respsonsible for this murder than right wing publications are for the deaths in the Oklahoma City bombing, and the beltway snipers. Right wing propaganda is also responsible for justifying the deliberate military actions all over the world that result in the deaths of thousands of civilians caught in the crossfire of paramilitary actions.

You fucking right wingers are entertaining as hell until one of you commits a terrorist act, in defense of a mythical national legacy, or against some phantom bogeyman. Then, you're all so quick to condemn and cover up the simple fact: the right wing of the military is the breeding ground for ideological extremist mass murderers.

Maybe, just maybe, the pacifists are on to something.

How is IMC at all responsible for this? Just because a few people get worked up and say "fuck the police", this guy goes out and kills someone? I don't think so. I think the problem runs much deeper, although I suppose IMC is an easy target.



You do realise that majority (if not all) of the anti-police comments on the network come from individuals posting their own stories, right? IMC should never have to take responsibility for simply creating an environment where people can express themselves.

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/10/21345.php

you are lame

Eric, you need to calm down. You're getting yourself worked up all by yourself. It's kind of entertaining, if it weren't so sad.

I could imagine that the cop killer was cruising around the conservative websites, reading some of the racism and hatred there that passes for debate, and getting worked up in a lather too. Maybe the words unlocked something within him that was unleashed as unnecessary violence against another person.

Eric, I hope you don't get so pissed off that you go out and beat up on some punks or hippies, and then boast about it on a website somewhere. That would be pretty pathetic.

I have a newsflash for everyone here. The world is not falling apart this week. The USA is not threatened; it's still the most powerful, richest nation in the universe. Civilization is not going to hell in a handbasket. We're just all having a bad week, that's all. The seasons are changing, and we're feeling a little blue. Take care of yourselves, okay...

yes. relax and take my pop quiz:

where does the quote below come from?

"I, myself, am an Army veteran, not so well-decorated as the Gentlemen I mention. Nevertheless, I am a graduate of the U.S. Army Ranger School, Airborne School, and Jungle Operations Training School."

come on now no cheating!

On June 11 Sgt. 1st Class Rigoberto Nieves, 32, of the 3rd Special Forces Group, shot his 28-year-old wife Teresa, and then himself, in their bedroom, as Teresa¹s sister and other relatives sat downstairs. He had returned from Afghanistan only two days before, having requested leave to resolve "personal issues"

On June 29, Jennifer Wright, was strangled by her husband William. The 36-year-old Green Beret confessed to the killing three weeks later.

On July 9, Sgt. Cedric Griffin, 28, in the 37th Engineer Battalion at Fort Bragg, was arrested after stabbing his wife Marilyn more than 50 times before setting her body on fire. The couple had been married for eight years but had recently separated.

etc., etc., etc., etc.......

I forgot, Andy was also in the Military and had training to kill, so did the sniper. So hence the connection to "MEN" going crazy and killing their wives. I forgot on a daily basis men just go off and kill their wife, because they had military training. That excuse is hogwash.

The Sniper was trained, yes, but he also converted to Islam, and changed his name. oh and did I mention, praised the murders on 9-11?

Andy, was also military trained, but lets see he ran away from home, joined up with some group of misfits that feel that the government is to blame for all the ills in the world. I'm sure they believe the government is not telling us the truth about Aliens either, and is in need of a really good anal probe right about now.

And those of you out there that keep trying to somehow place blame on the military for actions that is beyond their control, are in need of an anal probe also.

Attention Democrats! Attention Republicans! YOU ARE ALL HEADING THE SAME WAY. With the passage of the new US KGB (alias Homeland Security) this is apparent. WAKE UP! Open your eyes! Take the pill and see that we have been duped. You all bicker about insignificant crap while you lose your freedoms! Social security, homeland security, tax the rich, welfare, CIA, FBI, NSA... The US has chosen a mixture of communism (liberals) and facism (right wingers) masking it as freedom. Now we're slowly heading towards dictatorship. Remember, blind hatred towards any race (Jews then, Arabs now) is the same thing that Hitler used to gain his dictatorship (that and a large staged catastrophe).

"A dictatorship would be a heck of a lot easier, so long as I'm the dictator." - King George W. Bush II

Why doesn't the US stop its 50 year long Israeli defense policy, and end terrorism for real? bin Laden, Hitler, Walker, Sadam, Ford, Fulbright, Lindberg, Nixon, Graham, Freedman, Sack, Lilienthal, Chomsky, Shahak, Ostrovsky, Neturei Karta - all fighting a common enemy - Zionism (in short, the belief that Jews are superior, and gentiles are goyim [animals]). Now the US has sided with their enemy, THAT is why we have been attacked. Until you all wake up and realize this, well, we are headed towards WW III (but another war is what you all want, isn't it?). It's not going to stop 'til you slaughter every Arab out there (Holocaust II?).

Now what would the founding father's everyone idolizes say about this?

"A passionate attachment of one nation for another produces a variety of evils. Sympathy for the favorite nation, facilitating the illusion of an imaginary common interest in cases where no real common interest exists, and infusing into one nation the enmities of the other, betrays the former into a participation in the quarrels and wars of the latter without justification. It leads also to concessions to the favorite nation of privileges denied to others which is apt doubly to injure the nation making the concessions; by unnecessarily parting with what ought to have been retained, and by exciting jealousy, ill-will, and a disposition to retaliate, in the parties from whom equal privileges are withheld. And it gives to ambitious, corrupted, or deluded citizens who devote themselves to the favorite nation, facility to betray or sacrifice the interests of their own country, without odium, sometimes even with popularity; gilding, with the appearances of a virtuous sense of obligation, a commendable deference for public opinion, or a laudable zeal for public good, the foolish compliances of ambition, corruption, or infatuation."

- George Washington

It's a Brave New World.

And on this note, I would like to end it...

"Behold, I will make them of the synagogue of Satan, which say they are Jews, and are not, but do lie;"

Revelations 2:9

Dear Sentry....

See any black helicopters lately? Sentry, step away from the bong dude, put down the pipe. Surrender to your inner voice that keeps telling you that your crazy, and seek some help.

Let me guess, your one of those neo-nazi, anti-globalist types.

Sad

It's funny how the only thing that hate does is reveal immaturity.

If you are going to take responsibility for your environment then do it and know that virtue is real and that your environment includes everything including humiltiy.

Honour dictates that one must deduce it's source if they are to be it.

in love,

me

To paraphrase Mark Twain, When you find you are agreeing with the majority, switch sides.

For all you like-minded folk who feel we can solve terrorism by continuing to bomb the innocent Iraqi citizens like we have been doing since "Desert Storm," perhaps you will find that violence leads to violence - not peace. Do you think more attacks, which are what has PROVOKED terrorism, is going to stop it? I diagnose you have a very advanced form of Orwellian doublethink. Your prescription is to crack open 1984 to find where your borg-like logic comes from -

WAR IS PEACE

FREEDOM IS SLAVERY

IGNORANCE IS STRENGTH

I hope you find comfort in dismissing logical conclusions by labeling me a neo-nazi and drug fiend. Unfortunately for you, the Nazi's in Germany were more to YOUR lemming mentality. Ask yourself this, who has had troops invading foreign lands killing innocent civilians since World War II? Is it Iraq? Is it Palestine? Is it Russia? NO! It is the good ol' red, white, and blue imperialist America! So, am I trying to conquer the world like the Nazis, or are YOU? Maybe you have seen how patriotic the Nazis were after the burning of the Reichstagg? Everyone of them had flags flapping from their car antennae, just like YOU (not me). Perhaps you need to refer back to that quote from George Washington, who was not a Nazi or a pot head.

The rebellious "think for yourself" idealogy I try to follow clearly frightens your Mtv pop culture mindset. I am sorry that I wasn't spoon fed my opinions by Dan Rather and Kurt Loder, as you (and the rest of you facists) obviously were. I decided for myself by picking up a BOOK (heard of it?) and reading about history or politics or philosophy. So, quitting bogeying that j and try to have a rational discussion instead of dishing out immature insults.

We all know you don't really mean it. You are merely dishing out insults since you have no rationality to back up your spoon-fed opinions.

Sentry, Sentry, Sentry....

Now who is the one that is repeating spoon fed notions, or shall I say revised history. Let me guess, you went to a "All Progressive" college, where Professors revisited history with a "America is the enemy" mentality.

Where did you get this idea that America killed innocent people since WWll? So you forgot about the millions Hitler killed? Pretend we never joined the war with England, what do you think the out come would have been?

I admit the Vietnam war was a mistake, but of course the French asked us for help, and then like cowards they got the hell out of there. Pol Pot, killed millions.

2002, hundred have been killed by forces of muslims against christians, or jews against muslims.

3000, died on 9-11, for what? I still haven't figured that one out, I'm sure you have.

You'll say some nonsense like, America is out to dominate poor countries, and spread capitalism.

History is just that history, and hopefully we learn from our mistakes, by keeping an eye on those who would kill their own people by the millions to gain power.

I've been to Germany, and visited the sad reminders of chambers of death, and the pictures of people (humans) stack up like wood, in mass graves, will be forever engraved in my mind.

Hey Jude... no I didn't go to any bleeding heart liberal college. I grew up in the good ol' midwest in a small town in Kansas and went to a technical college. Your preconcieved notions of my beliefs are the stereotypical reaction for the mass mindset. I own guns, I believe in freedom, I drink, I swear, and I am an isolationist. You are a global control-freak who feels the US is the solution to every foreign quibble. I, like our forefathers, feel it is none of the US's business what other countries are doing. Please read that quote from George Washington (hopefully you'll understand it this time, I realize he uses old english).

I will now list for you the military operations (interventions as you'd call them) that the US has had since WW II. Be patient, it is lengthy. First, we should not forget that WW II was OVER and THEN FDR gave orders to nuke Japan.

America's military operations (WARS) on other countries since WW II:

1948-1949 "Berlin Airlift"

1950-1953 "Korean War"

1954-1955 "Taiwan Straits"

1956-1956 "Suez Crisis"

1958-1958 "Blue Bat"

1958-1959 "Taiwan Straits"

1958-1963 "Taiwan Straits"

1960-1962 "Congo"

1961-1962 "Laos"

1961-1963 "Berlin"

1962-1963 "Cuban Missle Crisis"

1963-1964 Chinese nuclear facilities attack

1964-1964 "Red Dragon"

1965-1966 "Powerpack"

1967-1970 "CHASE"

1967-1967 "Six Day War"

1968-1969 "Red Fox" (Pueblo incident)

1970-1970 "Graphic Hand"

1971-1971 "Red Hat"

1972-1972 "Garden Plot"

1973-1973 "Nickel Grass"

1962-1973 "Vietnam"

-- 1962-1971 "Operation Ranch Hand"

-- 1965-1968 "Operation Rolling Thunder"

-- 1965-1970 "Operation Arc Light"

-- 1970-1970 "Operation Ivory Coast (Kingpin)"

-- 1970-1970 "Laos"

-- 1972-1972 "Operation Freedom Train"

-- 1972-1972 "Operation Pocket Money"

-- 1972-1972 "Operation Line Backer I"

-- 1972-1972 "Operation Line Backer II"

-- 1972-1973 "Operation Endsweep"

1975-1975 "Eagle Pull"

1975-1975 "Frequent Wind"

1975-1975 "New Life"

1975-1975 "Mayaguez Operation"

1976-1976 "Paul Bunyan (Tree Incident)"

1977-1999 "Coronet Oak"

1978-1978 "SETCON I"

1978-1979 "Ogaden Crisis"

1979-1989 "Elf One"

1979-1980 "ROK Park Succession Crisis"

1980-1980 "EAGLE CLAW (Desert One)"

1980-1980 "SETCON II"

1980-1981 "Creek Sentry"

1981-1992 "Central America"

1981-1981 "RMT (Rocky Mountain Transfer)"

1981-1981 "Gulf of Sidra"

1981-1981 "Bright Star"

1982-1987 "USMNF (US Multinational Force)"

1983-1983 "Early Call"

1983-1983 "Arid Farmer"

1983-1983 "URGENT FURY"

1984-1984 "Intense Look"

1985-1985 "Achille Lauro"

1986-1986 "Attain Document"

1986-1986 "EL DORADO CANYON"

1986-1986 "Blast Furnace"

1986-Present "Alliance"

1987-1990 "ERNEST WILL"

1988-1988 "PRAYING MANTIS"

1988-Present "Golden Pheasant"

1989-1989 "Nimrod Dancer"

1989-1989 "Hawkeye"

1989-1989 "Classic Resolve"

1989-1990 "JUST CAUSE"

1990-1990 "Greensweep"

1990-1992 "Desert Storm"

-- 1990-1990 "Imminent Thunder"

-- 1990-1990 "Steel Box / Golden Python"

-- 1990-1991 "Desert Storm"

-- 1990-1991 "Sharp Edge"

-- 1991-1991 "Proven Force"

-- 1991-1991 "DESERT SWORD / DESERT SABRE"

-- 1991-1992 "Desert Calm"

1990-1993 "Ghost Zone"

1990-Present "Wipeout"

1990-Present "Grizzly"

1990-Present "Ghost Dancer"

1990-Present "Badge"

1991-1991 "Eastern Exit"

1991-1991 "Productive Effort / Sea Angel"

1991-1991 "Fiery Vigil"

1991-1991 "Victor Squared"

1991-1991 "Quick Lift"

1991-1991 "GTMO (Guantanamo)"

1991-1994 "Support Justice"

1991-1994 "Provide Comfort"

1991-1996 "Provide Comfort II"

1991-Present "Coronet Nighthawk"

1991-Present "Desert Falcon"

1991-Present "Southern Watch"

1992-1992 "Safe Harbor"

1992-1992 "Silver Anvil"

1992-1992 "Garden Plot"

1992-1992 "Provide Transition"

1992-1992 "Provide Relief"

1992-1992 Liberian NEO

1992-1992 "Provide Hope I"

1992-1992 "Provide Hope II"

1992-1992 "Maritime Monitor"

1992-1993 "Maritime Guard"

1992-1993 "Restore Hope"

1992-1996 "Provide Promise"

1992-Present "Sky Monitor"

1993-1993 "Continue Hope"

1993-1993 "Provide Hope III"

1993-1993 Iraq airstrike

1993-1993 Iraq cruise missle strike

1993-1993 Iraq cruise missle strike

1993-1994 "Korean Nuclear Crisis"

1993-1995 "Sharp Guard"

1993-1995 "Deny Flight"

1993-Present "Iris Gold"

1994-1994 "Distant Runner"

1994-1994 "Quiet Resolve / Support Hope"

1994-1994 "Provide Hope IV"

1994-1994 "Vigilant Warrior"

1994-1995 "Uphold / Restore Democracy"

1994-1995 "Safe Haven / Safe Passage"

1994-1996 "Steady State"

1994-1996 "Sea Signal / JTF-160"

1994-Present "Able Sentry"

1995-1995 "United Shield"

1995-1995 "Quick Lift"

1995-1995 "DELIBERATE FORCE"

1995-1995 "Determined Effort"

1995-1996 "Third Taiwan Straits Crisis"

1995-1996 "Zorro II"

1995-1996 "Decisive Enhancement"

1995-1996 "Nomad Vigil"

1995-1996 "Joint Endeavor"

1995-1997 "Vigilant Sentinel"

1995-1999 "Safe Border"

1995-1999 "Intrinsic Action"

1995-Present "Selva Verde"

1995-Present "Gatekeeper"

1995-Present "Hold-the-Line"

1995-Present "Safe Guard"

1996-1996 "Assured Response"

1996-1996 "Quick Response"

1996-1996 "Assurance / Phoenix Tusk"

1996-1996 "Guardian Assistance"

1996-1996 "Pacific Haven / Quick Transit"

1996-1996 "DESERT STRIKE"

1996-1996 "Decisive Endeavor / Decisive Edge"

1996-1998 "Decisive Guard / Deliberate Guard"

1996-1998 "Joint Guard"

1996-Present "Laser Strike"

1996-Present "Northern Watch"

1996-Present "Desert FOcus"

1996-Present "Determined Guard"

1996-Present "Nomad Endeavor"

1997-1997 "Silver Wake"

1997-1997 "Guardian Retrieval"

1997-1997 "Noble Obelisk"

1997-1997 "Bevel Edge"

1997-1997 "Phoenix Scorpion I"

1998-1998 "Noble Response"

1998-1998 Asmara, Eritrea NEO

1998-1998 "Shepherd Venture"

1998-1998 "Infinite Research"

1998-1998 "DESERT FOX"

1998-1998 "Shining Presence"

1998-1998 "Phoenix Scorpion II"

1998-1998 "Phoenix Scorpion III"

1998-1998 "Phoenix Scorpion IV"

1998-1998 "Determited Falcon"

1998-1999 "Eagle Eye"

1998-1999 "Strong Support (Fuerte Apoyo)"

1998-1999 "Provide Hope V"

1998-1999 "Determined Force"

1998-Present "Resolute Response"

1998-Present "Deliberate Forge"

1998-Present "DELIBERATE FORCE"

1998-Present "Joint FOrge"

1999-1999 "Avid Response"

1999-1999 "Stabilize"

1999-1999 "Provide Refuge"

1999-1999 "Allied Force / Noble Anvil"

1999-2000 "Fundamental Response"

1999-Present "Desert Spring"

1999-Present "Joint Guardian"

2000-2000 "Silent Promise"

2000-2000 "Sierra Leone NEO"

2000-Present "MONUC [UN PKO]"

+ Unsure +

1989-???? "Agate Path" (CONUS)

1990-???? "Promote Liberty" (Panama)

199?-???? "Constant Vigil" (Bolivia)

199?-199? "Green Clover" (South America)

????-???? "Open Arms" (Kosovo)

????-???? "Sustain Hope / Allied Harbour" (Kosovo)

????-???? "Shining Hope" (Kosovo)

????-???? "Cobalt Flash" (Kosovo)

????-Present "Enhanced OPS" (CONUS)

????-Present "Korea" (Korea)

????-Present "New Horizons" (Central America)

This information is available in Encyclopedia Britannica, on-line, and from the US Gov't literature. Please pick up a book and stop spitting your spoon-fed lies to me. Again, instead of trying to attack my character, try and debate your point using facts. You will find there are none to support what Ted Koppel has told you. I'll leave you with a quote from your favorite President, GW Bush:

"There's an old saying in Tennessee -- I know it's in Texas, probably in Tennessee -- that says, fool me once, shame on... shame on you. Fool me... you can't get fooled again."

King George W. Bush II

Nashville, Tennessee

Sept. 17, 2002

Tell the doctor the medication is not working. He should propbably up the dosage. And quit skipping those sessions with the therapist. How do you expect to ever get better if you won't show up for your meetings?

What kind of medication are you yourself on, Eric? That was fairly tame and nonsensical. I thought you had abandoned the “you liberals...Blah blah....stop smoking...Blah blah ”as your standard fair. We expect more from you now.

Because sometimes (not often) you make sense. Please try again.

Sentry, so you went to Encyclopedia Britannica, to list all the battles we entered, but you still failed to counter the clear genocide by Hitler, Pol Pot etc. What part of stopping Hitler do you object to? I only wish we could have stopped Pol Pot.

And I'll apologize for calling you a pot smoking, racist, crazy, liberal, anti-globalist, with tight polyester pants.

I guess from a mothers point of view, I want to protect my children from forces of evil, that want to change the way of life as I know it.

The extremist islamist want to take over and convert everyone to islam, and I question the "peaceful" part of their religion. Nigeria, Muslims rioted and killed hundreds because they were offended by a news paper opinion piece. Turns my stomach.

A nation with so much to offer, always there to lend a hand in need, to stop starvation, help women better themselves. You object to this? Our noses are too long indeed, and cut off by those we help.

As the song goes, "We didn't start the fire, it was always burning since the world was turning", is so true, since Adam took a bite from the apple, people have murdered, raped and plundered.

It's not an excuse for human nature, but the fact.

Henry Ford helped Hitler

Melon-Scaife's ALCOA helped Hitler

Rockefeller's Chase Bank helped Hitler

IBM helped Hitler

& the Union Banking operations of Prescott Bush were closed under the Trading With the Enemy Act for... helping Hitler

putting aside the pithy lyrics of Billy Joel--if you are going to refer to Bible stories to support you argument, you should first learn to interpret the scriptures from which they are derived.

For example, in Genesis 1 a pantheon of gods ('elohiym) creates the heaven and earth from a formless void.[1] Then they proceed to:

* turn on the lights

* build a platform in the sky (to seperate the water on the ground from the water in the air)

* sow herbs, grass and fruit trees

* sprinkle the sky with shining stars

* place the sun and the moon in the sky to rule day & night

* made winged-fowls, whales, creeping things and beasts

and finally--in full view for us to see in verse 26 of all modern revised versions of the original scriptures-- the pantheon of gods declare:

====================================

"...Let us make man in OUR image, after OUR likeness: and let them have dominion over the fish of the sea, and over the fowl of the air, and over the cattle, and over all the earth, and over every creeping thing that creepeth upon the earth."

1:27

"So God[s] created man in his own image, in the image of God[s] created he him; male and female created he them."

====================================



Genesis 2:4 is the beginning of a *different* story about the LORD (Yahova) God ('elohiym), who went on to make special people out of dirt for his garden of Eden. [2]

Let's take close look at how Yahovah treated his dirt people:

=======================================

"And the LORD God commanded the man, saying, Of every tree of the garden thou mayest freely eat:

But of the tree of the knowledge of good and evil, thou shalt not eat of it:

for IN THE DAY that thou eatest thereof THOU SHALT SURELY DIE!" -- Genesis 2:16-17

========================================

Was Yahova telling the truth?

Or was the serpent telling the truth?



========================================

Genesis

3:1

Now the serpent was more subtil than any beast of the field **which the LORD God had made.** And he said unto the woman, "Yea, hath God said, Ye shall not eat of every tree of the garden?"

3:2

And the woman said unto the serpent, "We may eat of the fruit of the trees of the garden: [3:3] But of the fruit of the tree which is in the midst of the garden, God hath said, Ye shall not eat of it, neither shall ye touch it, lest ye die.

3:4

And the serpent said unto the woman, "Ye shall not surely die: [3:5] For God doth know that in the day ye eat thereof, then YOUR EYES SHALL BE OPENED, and ye shall be AS GODS, KNOWING GOOD AND EVIL."

========================================

3:6

And when the woman saw that the tree was good for food, and that it was pleasant to the eyes, and a tree to be desired to make one wise, she took of the fruit thereof, and did eat, and gave also unto her husband with her; and he did eat.

3:7

AND THE EYES OF BOTH OF THEM WERE OPENED, and they knew that they were naked; and they sewed fig leaves together, and made themselves aprons.

========================================



Genesis

5:5 And all the days that Adam lived were NINE HUNDRED AND THIRTY YEARS: and he died.

references:

[1] (concordance - genesis 1:1)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1038853984-7134.html#1

[2] (concordance - genesis 2:4)

http://www.blueletterbible.org/tmp_dir/c/1038850965-1382.html#4

Hey Jude...

Why is a hatred for Arabs any better than a hatred of the Jews by Nazi's or a hatred of Protestants by Catholics?

Is America not the next step in a continuing circle of hatred?

Why aren't you whining about the millions of protestants slaughtered by Catholics for hundreds of years over multiple countries as much as you whine about the Nazi's killing Catholics, Jews, Freemasons, Gypsies, retards, and homosexuals?

Why is it you aren't up in arms about the ongoing slaughter of all whites in Zimbabwe?

Why is it you are only upset about the one thing Dan Rather told you to be upset about?

Now let me paraphrase a quote by Thomas Jefferson, or maybe it was Ben Franklin...

When you sacrifice liberty for safety, you will end up with NEITHER.

So now your children are neither safe nor free. Feel better? Why don't we go kill some innocents around the world (as we have been doing since WW II)? It makes me feel so much better.

"but you still failed to counter the clear genocide by Hitler, Pol Pot etc. What part of stopping Hitler do you object to? I only wish we could have stopped Pol Pot."

Well, let's see... shall I add up all the genocide's throughout the world and then blame them on the fact that America didn't intervene?

What about Israel's slaughter of the innocent Palestinian families? We (our tax money) gave Israel money, ammo, and tanks in 1948 to go kick innocent civilians out of their homes they grew up in. And kill them if they didn't leave their lives behind! If they chose to retaliate by, say, throwing a rock... well then they have twenty M16's a two tanks blasting them, their wives, their grandparents, and their children. You may want to read about the family who was told that Israel decided their house was now Israel's property, so they gave them notice to leave. Then bulldozed it over WITH A DEAF MAN INSIDE!! This happened THIS WEEK, not 1940. Why are you so blind? But of course Israel has a right to take away their homes. I mean, Jews did live there 2,000 years ago. It would be anti-semetic to think otherwise, isn't that what you think, Mr. Rather?

And let's take a look at your OWN words in a 1940's mindset.

"The extremist Jews want to take over and convert everyone to Zionism, and I question the "peaceful" part of their religion."

Sounds like you, yourself, could qualify for a Nazi German. I mean, we already know they are torturing (and killing) 'terrorists' (aka Muslims) in Cuba with no trial or even any evidence. Can you please read the history of Germany, and then look at the US of A? We should call this the Fourth Reich.

I may reply to the rest of your comments later...

Israel's army bulldoze a deaf man in his house

http://news.independent.co.uk/world/middle_east/story.jsp?story=357935

Israel's army shoots 95 year old grandmother in the back

http://www.jpost.com/servlet/Satellite?pagename=JPost/A/JPArticle/ShowFull&cid=1038889003180

This Andy is a STUPID IDIOT! He apparently didn't realize that the courts are ALWAYS piercing the corporate veil to get to just such idiots as himself! ~sigh!

Don

Way to go, Don. Whenever we conservatives don't have anything intelligent to say, we can always resort to calling people "STUPID IDIOTS." It really shows our lack of maturity and insight. Great job!