error

error

error

error

for those poor US soldiers who had to be confined in a plane with those sorry sob's.

I thought only the women there wore burquas though. . .

These pix were posted from an anonymous source on Art Bell's web page.

I think I heard his radio show one time. . . but I thought it was an acid flashback.

Check out Mr. Bell's links on Chupacbra sightings!!!

I know any GIs captured in any future ground war will not be able to say anything about sensory deprivation or continued restraint or any other such nonsense about humane prisoner treatment.

Why is the top photo doctored to hide the position of the hand of the troop on the side hammock?

========
From U.S., the ABC's of Jihad
Violent Soviet-Era Textbooks Complicate Afghan Education Efforts

By Joe Stephens and David B. Ottaway
Washington Post Staff Writers
Saturday, March 23, 2002; Page A01



In the twilight of the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings, part of covert attempts to spur resistance to the Soviet occupation.

The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books, though the radical movement scratched out human faces in keeping with its strict fundamentalist code.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5339-2002Mar22?language=printer
===============

Bin Laden comes home to roost

His CIA ties are only the beginning of a woeful story.

NEW YORK, Aug. 24, 1998

At the CIA, it happens often enough to have a code name: Blowback. Simply defined, this is the term that describes an agent, an operative or an operation that has turned on its creators. Osama bin Laden, our new public enemy Number 1, is the personification of blowback. And the fact that he is viewed as a hero by millions in the Islamic world proves again the old adage:

Reap what you sow.

http://msnbc.com/news/190144.asp?cp1=1

Whats wrong with that? All those "gizmos" shock you? Are they being badly treated?

Watch how the Russians treat their prisioners in Chechenya you dumbasses.

How typical the standard reduction of humans into a subset of non human. Gotta love the righteousness of the Fascist right.

fascism=the merger of state and corporate interests.

Ask Lockhead.
Ask General Dynamics
Ask General Electric
Ask TWR...
if they don't like the weapons contracts. Does the word
war bring any connection?

Okay mr. Admirer, your first response was correct about the reason for the 9-11 event. Not that that smirking stupid little coke snorting asshole had enough wits to stop his reading lesson when the attack was going down, but because his puppet masters (Fascist right) wanted it. I wouldn’t leave that moron in charge of the outhouse.
General Dynamics for instance doesn’t get a cent of income not funneled into it by the tax payer, for weapon systems. TWR is not much different. The rest lap up what ever they can off of our payroll taxes. The list I gave you is very incomplete. I could post a revenue chart of defense contracts per corporation if you wish.
Enough. It wont be for you, it’s for the sane.

Wow Bush Admirer you got it right. The billions to be made by a war with Iraq at the expense of the lives of US service personnel who are largely young people of color, and not the sons and daughters of the rich elite who own and control the defense companies and the media. The people who supply the soft money and the bulk of the hard PAC money our politicians are addicted to want this war to fill their coffers. Exxon and the rest of the oil companies are currently getting a small trickle of the oil that Iraq is capable of producing. Full access to those oil fields beneath Saddams desert dictatorship is worth billions upon billions of US Petrol Dollars. And our defense industry, which by the way has a great deal of influence in our 6 major media companies, naturally wants the US to go to war so they can maximize their profits. Your definition of Fascism seems to fit perfectly with what the Bush Administration is doing these days as well Mr. Admirer.

1. A system of government marked by centralization of authority under a dictator, stringent socioeconomic controls, suppression of the opposition through terror and censorship, and typically a policy of belligerent nationalism and racism.


The patriot act has centralized the authority of the Bush administration. Need I remind you that this administration came to power under the most suspect of circumstances; some have been so bold as to call it a political coup. And all the flag waving and the numerous times that God Bless American has been recited by our national news media certainly makes me think that some belligerent nationalism is going on. The profiling of all people of Arab background is defiantly a racist move. Looks like you man Bush is doing pretty good at being a fascist. I would like to leave you all with these words from our current resident and thief.

If this were a dictatorship, it'd be a heck of a lot easier, just so long as I'm the dictator.
George W. Bush 12/18/2000

http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0012/18/nd.01.html

Gosh, for once I agree with the neo-fascist ( and I use your definition) "Bushadmirer". The oil, the weapons, they're just an "add-on".

What's REALLY driving this war with Iraq is the Zionist lobby.
(ps. what organizaton do you work for? Shin Bet? Mossad? or just a local Hillel boy? Hmmm?

PS. Why aren't YOU enlisting?

what is wrong with all of you people, you're worrying about how the American army and paratrooopers are treating the fckin al quada, especially after the bastards destryed half ya'll best city NY (R.I.P)

Dave Lewis aka the incredible hulk, UK South England

he is a troll. his sole purpose here is to insight a flame war as he did on the portland site and many others. if you look closely at the number of posts he comments on across the network, it is clear this is a full time job for him/her. it is not unreasonable to assume he is getting paid for this. regardless, you are wasting your time responding to his bullshit.

DON'T FEED THE TROLLS!

BA ... you certainly seem to spend an inordinate amount of time spamming websites you consider to be, and I quote, "irrelevant".

BA ... you certainly seem to spend an inordinate amount of time spamming websites you consider to be, and I quote, "irrelevant".

You are irrelevant. But you're so easy and so much fun to tick off.

You are irrelevant. But you're so easy and so much fun to tick off.

===============
sa·dism
n.
1) The deriving of sexual gratification or the tendency to derive sexual gratification from inflicting pain or emotional abuse on others.
2) The deriving of pleasure, or the tendency to derive pleasure, from cruelty.

dictionary.com
================

"You are irrelevant. But you're so easy and so much fun to tick off."

Appears more to me as if it is you, drawn like moths to a flame, that are so easy and tick-offable.
IMC doesn't even do it to you intentionally, it's so easy.
IMC is not irrelevant according to your say-so. The only thing revealed is that you believe it is irrelevant. And you spend alot of time focussed on something you think is irrelevant. This betrays a certain amount of stupidity on your part.

Dear reader,
What's so wrong with taking away an oppressor(Saddam Hussein)from the Iraqi people and maybe getting some provitable oil deal. Is it a bad thing?Would u like to live under Saddam's dictatorship? If you're honest u would say no. Give the Iraqi people a chance to live under better conditions whether or not some company's get a good deal out of the collapse of saddam's regime. Please don't derive the people of Iraq for a chance to live in a democracy just because you dislike Bush and corporate America. If u let Saddam rule,nothing will ever change for the people of Iraq. It's difficult enough to get rid of Saddam now; think about how difficult it would be when he has nuclear weapons.

Greetings from Holland

death to america!

you american are sadistic and sick. How do you know these men are terrorists

These men are non-Afghan combatants taken under arms in combat against the forces of the United States. They are attendees of terrorist training schools. If it walks like a duck...

Their ankles are showing.

We should beat them like they beat Afgan women.


Nothing like a taste of your own medicine, I say.

Good Job Marines... You make us proud! Treat them with the same respect that they had for the innocent victims of 9/11

Good Job Marines...You make us proud!

Treat those prisoners with no respect! They deserve nothing!

Mr. dutch man:
Do you for one moment believe that any government set up by the criminal elite here in the ‘land of the free’, that Iraq would be anything but a puppet despot serving the interests of the same greedy scum that set up all the OTHER torturers and killers from countries we have ‘liberated’?
Holland is is a beautiful country with a working investigative media
where the people know more about the workings of U.S. internal policy than the people here do.
They have had a taste of fascist rule and know just how precious
their freedom is.

i think a 25 cent bullit would do , right in the fuck'n head .

i am canadain and i love america, so for those assholes that dont support Bush, your a wast'e of a human .
Go Bush , i love ya man
I love all those men and women that fight for our freedom , you guys deserve more than money.
Osama, go to hell asshole and take all your crack smok'in buddies with ya
i think the guy is stoned all the time
God Bless America

Can a person imagine for just a minute what kind of hell would be raised by liberals if we were to treat Illegal Mexicans this way when shipped them to Mexico.

I find it very sad that a/ the American administration (and people?) have learnt nothing from 9/11, but continue to ignore the cries from people from culturally diverse backgrounds that the 'American Way', is damaging others outside America. 9/11 was a totally unjustified protest about this, but the fact remains, the reasons behind it have been ignored. b/ that Bush and his supporters can justify the resultant situation in Iraq, when there is NO evidence, absolutely none, of a link between Iraq and Bin Ladens terrorists, of the kind that justifies war, is doubly sad. The liklihood is that any war will with Iraq will bring the 2, who are enemies at the moment (Hussein being the Infidel), together with a common cause. WAKE UP BUSH SUPPORTERS - we all despise Bin Laden, Hussein and terror, but Bush and co are acting like Imperial bigots of the worst kind.

JAKE - no offence but get an education, maybe read a book or a comic will do if thats easier.

...BushBlower, you are a laughriot today!

Yeah, sure, they have the evidence, but they can't SHOW you the evidence..you have to TRUST them...

One question: How could you have had Harvard Business School do a case study on your company when your were obviously born last night?

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!

I just noticed something kinda creepy.
In the photo showing the MP, the prisoner seems to have something very wrong with his legs; as the strap across them doesn’t reach around the normal structure of a human thigh. Is this man injured?
THESE PEOPLE ARE NOT ANIMALS!!
Have we as a nation given up the pretense of a moral high ground?
This makes me sick to think about. Our own troops will never expect to receive any humane treatment if captured, in fact they will be tortured just for revenge and we wont have any thing to say about it. This is SICK!

I have a friend who flies in the AF on the same kind of plane as pictured here. I sent him the link to this and he tripped out that these photos made it public, and said it will be very easy for them to figure out what plane this is etc. Anyway, he also said those straps are designed to secure really heavy equipment and vehicles and stuff like that, so they have an incredible amount of potential tension and strength and could be very destructive if winched to their full capability. I don't think they were designed to hold down human thighs, or to strap around human arms.

United against terrorism....

Actually, I think you got Simple’s pecker tracks all over your face.
Maybe knee pads would help you with your rug burns after your shift here at LA IMC,

The prisoner looks as if his legs are crushed do the the fact that the photo shows the strap over them are nearly level with the deck.
This is endangering any of our captured troops by this treatment.
I know some desk warriors are real brave behind the keyboard
and don’t give a shit about retaliation directed towards our own
countrymen and are so willing to send someone else to endure
retribution as long as it isn’t themselves.
What bravado. Such armchair courage. What a bunch of sick
stupid scum. There are no words to express my contempt of
individuals such as these who would send our sons and friends into a situation like that.
Perhaps they want our solders to be tortured so as to give the media a cheap and easy propaganda platform for more horror and death.
LOVE to see these war weasels on the front, blubbering for their lives facing the wrath of these people’s friends and families; I don’t think the objectivity would be so easy then.

Sheepdog, you are a real piece of work.

The photograph in question is grainy, and the angle it is taken at precludes accurate analysis. Are you an expert in photographic analysis? No? Then you are just doing what you always do, shooting your fool mouth off about things of which you know nothing. Furthermore, as these photographs have been posted to indymedia, one might suspect that they may have been doctored. I am not saying that they have been, I am saying that they may have been.
You can spare me your dishonest talk about concern for our captured troops. First of all, we have seen the tender mercies of our enemies on the troops they have captured. Summary execution seems to be the preferred method, but this may have been due to not having the time to properly torture them. The death of Daniel Pearl was a fairly good example of the humanity of our foe. Second, I don’t think you give a fiddler’s fart for the treatment or the lives of any of our servicemen. You sit back and wallow in the freedoms that their sacrifice provides, and laugh and prance when they are killed because it gives the government you hate so much a black eye.
And can we finally put to bed this ignorant canard of the Left that only soldiers can pronounce on war? This is completely ignorant. If you are saying that only a soldier can say we should go to war, then only a soldier should say we shouldn’t. I don’t see any stripes on your uniform, Sheepdog, so why don’t you shut your mouth? Furthermore, I doubt you’d stand for a plebiscite of our armed forces on this subject, or be too happy with the results. The fact is that the vast majority of servicemen and women are in favor of the prosecution of this conflict. But regardless of that, the framers of the constitution put the military under the control of civilian authority. A good steward would, of course, provide sons that served (Teddy Roosevelt, George Bush), but that is not a prerequisite. Using this ignorant logic, only the rich should comment on tax policy, only children should determine class curriculum, and only pregnant women should comment on abortion. The purpose of this ‘rule’ is of course to stifle debate. The Left knows it has nothing to offer, so it must at all costs stop conversation. Your position isn’t anti-war, it is pro-status quo. Let the Iraqi and North Korean and Cuban people continue to be brutalized and silenced and killed by their masters. Let ignorant religious fanatics run amok, it’s our entire fault anyway. You and your associates are cowards, and worse. Tell you what. You join up, and then you can say how much you are against this war. There’s a laugh.

To the idiots to whom it might (or not ) concern:
I Already got my honorable discharge, as I ENLISTED in 1968, baby boys. Waiting to hear from YOU at the front. Have fun.

Well, by your reasoning, you are Ineligible to comment on the pending war as you are not now a soldier nor do you have children who are. So shut up.

I got something you don’t have.
Experience and a mind.
Waiting to hear from you after you earn these things.
I learned from my encounters. And little tin solders like
yourself, full of shit, still have to walk the walk.
Send us a post card and a copy of Your 201 file with all the
citations and medals you receive. Then maybe I’ll consider you more than a desk chair hero.
Shut up to the likes of you? Not even in your dreams. I’ve earned my right to speak, you haven’t. You’re just another big talking dickweed.

And you are an ignorant hypocrite, caught in the web of your own illogic. How's it feel?

You are old and weak and soft, and hence you prattle on with the concerns of the infirm: security, and peace and quiet and being civil. But wait, our country has been attacked. Civilian men and women murdered while they worked. Your weak-kneed appeasement doesn't wash anymore. Now is the time for clarity of purpose, and decisive action to ensure such a disaster doesn't befall us a second time. Now is the time to rip these Islamists out at the roots and give them what they are asking for. And now is the time for the educated and western-leaning people of Iraq to be liberated and encouraged as a bulwark against this primitive tide of fundamentalism. Now is the time for the people of Iran to be liberated. Now is the time for the people of (soon no longer Saudi) Arabia to be liberated. Then the cockroaches will be left to scatter - with hellfire missiles right behind.

We didn't envision a time of war, but a time of war is upon us. And all the old Sheepdogs of the world won't save the targets of our wrath.

You are young stupid and ignorant.
I’ve been practicing martial arts for over 25 years and could probably kill you with one hand if you ever showed your sorry ass at my door with an attitude. I still can run for 15 minutes and kick your ass. Yes, I used to be younger and faster but I don’t have any fear of your kind. I’m a crack shot with iron sights and still practice ken jitsu five hours a week. I don’t need punks like you to defend me or my family.
You are a raging fool.

I shit bigger than you Sheepdog, been playing rugby for years and kicking the crap out of 'martial artistes' like yourself just as long. Iron sights? Do you need glasses to look down them sights? Hard to keep those sights steady when your chest is thumping after that 15 minute run. But this isn't about me or whatever yoga you're into.

It's about war. If you and your ilk were pricipled you'd be worth listening to. But you're not. You portray yourselves as 'anti-war' but that is a red herring. I can't remember the last time you suggested going to act as a human shield in Chechnya or Tibet or among the Uigher peoples. The reason is you'd be a dead-ass bullet catcher. I'd be impressed if human shields would sign up to be on every bus every day for year in Jerusalem. But it'll be a cold day in hell when 'anti-war' people actually take a risk at being hurt. They rely on the basic humanity and respect for life that is ONLY found in the Western Democracies, yet decry them. They line up in their ignorant droves to defend despots and mass murderers - all the time singing kumbaya. You're a joke.

I'm a little far sighted, now and I don't need glasses
to cut paper targets.
And this is still about the U.S. violating human rights
in regards to the POWs in our custody.
Still waiting to hear from you at the front.

I don't think I've seen any concrete evidence of mistreatment of detainees by our government. The pictures above show a bunch of individuals restrained from moving and prevented from communicating. Standard SERE school stuff. The guy behind the MP in the photograph appears to be a medic. Chances are the meathead in the straps was getting antsy, and the MP is there to remind him to behave himself. Now if you want to see human rights abuse, made into a RECRUITING FILM, why don't you watch Daniel Pearl's head come off again? Or how about watching those two towers come crashing down with their thousands of inhabitants. That was a helluva human rights violation.

Oh yeah??? Well, Pvt. Fido, I was the first barbarian to sack Rome, am a expert in every martial art, including Gymkata, and I could pick my teeth with your skinny carcass...I eat pig iron and shit Cadillacs, and flick boogers that are smarter than you...

....apologist for mass murderers like you make me sick, you are not worth the dog shit I scrape off of my shoes, and your flacid arguments are just about as difficult to dispose of...hacks like you would be just as comfortable apologizing for Stalin as you are for Kissinger..this country would be better off if you decided to goosestep for some petty dictator in some remote corner of the globe, you contemptuous shitheap...

BushBlower: "I blow him into the next zip code."

...I bet you would, BushBlower....I bet you would....

The steel trap of KPC's intellect has again sprung and trapped us all within it's fearsome grip. Strange when you strain all the cursing and insults there's nothing left but the mumblings of a two year old. The wepubwicans did it, daddy, not me!!!

But continue to rant on, Mr. Mom. It's refreshing to get the perspective of the defective.

...there's nothing left 'cause that's all a shitheal like you is worth, Pvt. Fido...

...now be a good doggie and stop barkin' at the moon...

After the atrocities these poeple have commited, it's a good thing wimpy conspiracy theorists like you don't run things.

who's Al Quada?

These s-o-bees look in great shape, I don't see any bruises or cuts not only that these bastards are provided ear muffs so they don't loose their damn hearing? Hey lets not forgot what these A-holes did to their own countrymen, women and children for a decade let alone Sept 11. I am a muslim and also in armed forces. I say let cut their sacks off and feed them their nuts. Hooyah..............

The CIA, FBI, LAPD were arguing about who was the best at tracking down their ‘targets’. To settle the matter they released a rabbit into the forest and decided to take turns in tracking it down. The CIA made contact with its agents in the forest, flew recon over the area and monitored communications and concluded that there was no rabbit. The FBI laughed at their stupidity and entered the forest with armored vehicles and flamethrowers… after burning down half the forest they decide that while the may not have captured the suspect rabbit surely the ‘got it’. The LAPD rolled their eyes and entered the forest. After a couple of hour the LAPD returned with a bear that had a broken arm, some missing teeth, and bloody nose. The bear was yelling, “I am the rabbit…I am the rabbit!”.

I don't pretend to know everything about the situation going on in Iraq or Afghanistan but it is clear that one thing is being ignored. Why have these people commited crimes of terrorism? Those of you who are ignorant will probably just say because they're evil assholes or something equally as stupid because you believe everything you read, see and hear (trusting idiots) but if you have a brain cell you might actually stop and think about the reasons behind their hatred of America, for example what has the American government done to them? Nobody looks at the past, it's all to do with 9/11 and Iraq. I don't want to play down what happened on 9/11 because it was an extremely horrific act that makes my blood run cold but what happened before that to make these people think the way they do? Is the death of an innocent American worse than the death of an innocent Iraqi??? I am a young person who is just starting out in life and you people who think that war and death is the answer are ruining our futures with your hatred!! When are you going to start learning that you can't bully everyone all of the time because eventually they will bite back.

A few like the others: 100,000 people of Heroshima, 70,000 people of Nagazaki, civilians of Afganistan, civilians of Vatenam, civilians of Iraq......... and God knows who is next

Miss;

Admitting your ignorance up front does perhaps mitigate the drivel that drips from your posts, but it does not excuse you for having posted it. For your education, may I direct you to www.memri.org . There you will see, in their own words, why the Islamic world behaves towards the West the way that they do.
So tell me young person, how you would prevent another major terrorist attack, since you profess to know why we have been attacked? Since you consider the events of September 11th 2001 “extremely horrific” (and I suppose you also consider the attacks in Bali and Kenya at least upsetting) how do you propose to stop these creatures that are bent on the murder of any Westerner they can get within grenade range of? Would you suggest we give them a hug? Or perhaps we should pay them off? Would you suggest, as a notable ignoramus of Indymedia has, that the solution is to dissolve the United States intelligence community? I await your well-reasoned and thoughtful reply.

"A few like the others: 100,000 people of Heroshima, 70,000 people of Nagazaki, civilians of Afganistan, civilians of Vatenam, civilians of Iraq......... and God knows who is next...." --'human'

see also: site inspired by 'Cecil's post

"how you would prevent another major terrorist attack, since you profess to know why we have been attacked? Since you consider the events of September 11th 2001 “extremely horrific” (and I suppose you also consider the attacks in Bali and Kenya at least upsetting) how do you propose to stop these creatures"

Well, impeachment of Bush would be a good start. He'd find it hard to pull off again from a prison cell.

bla bla bla ... it's ok to kill thousands ... bla bla bla bla

You are such an child. Faced with arguments you cannot refute you resort to playing in your sandbox. Just concede with grace. It's more becoming.

Get a sense of humour, stuffy old simpleton. Whatsa matter, can't take a joke? You say you're American?!? You sound more like somebody's butler to me.

Humor? you want humor? I'll show you humor...

http://www.toonedin.com/movies/WhiteTrashXmas.html

some perspectives from the white world:

"I'm for catching every Japanese in America, Alaska and Hawaii now and putting them in concentration camps. Damn them! Let's get rid of them now!" -- John Rankin, Mississippi Congressman

hiroshima

Howard Zinn on Hiroshima

William Blum on Hiroshima

I have you in my nose, now A.V. I thought you were tedious when you filled in between your hyperlinks with enless rantings, but now you just resort to the links themselves. Getting lazy?

The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a good thing. It saved lives. It convinced the Japanese to surrender unconditionally. It brought a long bloody war to an end. A war started (in the Pacific) by the Japanese.

I was watchin' "March of the Wooden Soldiers" the other day with my daughter, and there's this scene where the soldiers are attacking the Boogeymen, and one of the soldiers walks through a door and knocks his head off, but keeps on walkin...
...And I though "Pvt. Fido, the SimpleTon!...marchin' on without a brain!"

LA-1936--US Nazi citizens protesting in support of Hitler



LA 2001: Bush Admirer and Simple Simon

Hey, isn't it 2002? Almost 2003? I hate sloppy reporting. And you didn't even get my good side.

fdsa have you seen a small burrito?

Simple Simon said:
"The bombing of Hiroshima and Nagasaki was a good thing. It saved lives. It convinced the Japanese to surrender unconditionally. It brought a long bloody war to an end. A war started (in the Pacific) by the Japanese."

Sorry mate, the (nuclear) bombing started 2 days after they conceded.
It was only down to signing the documents of surrender....

p.s. Sorry for being off topic.

"What we need is another Pearl Harbour".
A quote off a major US politico in 1996....

The FBI are still after the surviving hijackers of 9-11. After all 10 of the 16 are alive and well.
They "knew" it was al-qaeda so soon? How?

Ever seen those "caves"? Nuke proof shelters made by the CIA?
Well, anyway. Bush has installed his oil magnate there now, so you CAN have your Caspian sea oil.
"Wanna buy some cheap heroin?" "Our crops are now up 10fold now the Taliban are not policing".

You need a little more oil?, Ummm! *idea!* "LETS TAKE IRAQ!!". Sod the death count. WE NEED OIL!!!

The French now know who torpedoed their tanker full of Iraqi oil. You know, the new oil deal, they (and Russians) made in the face of an aggressive US stance.

I suggest the UN get tough on the worlds #1 terrorist state...
It will be messy. But worth it. Might be cleaner on the poor subjects if we use a surgical incision to remove its cancers. Then re-instate its old laws, and give them a viable vote. Avoiding the computer system they installed, which has given grief to the honest vote.
Its old laws, yes, called the BILL OF RIGHTS!

Translator time:
Taliban = The gathering. Name for the Afghan "gov't".
Al-qaeda = The students. Well they know what they mean, even if you won't.

Bush Admirer posts to the site are in the hundreds.

He abuses the Indymedia Project’s community open publishing by pistol whipping anybody that’s not a “right wing whacko”. His actions are designed to disrupt or divert the flow of information by making B. A. the center of attention.

In open publishing jargon he is know as a TROLL!

Most of the men in these photos were let go. Bin Laden is still free. The U.S. continues to fail because of it's twisted perception of justice and continued tolerance of left views, which leads us closer and closer to the day of extinction.

You will regret this America. You will destroy half the world and then retreat when the shit hits the fan, as you have done before. Don't let this happen. For once forget about your own glory, self-righteousness and forget about the past. Think of the world. Make history America.

Let me guess, you are a homo leftie?

...and let me guess, you're American. If your minds are that simple I don't think you'll stand much of a chance in the desert, but then there are a lot of you. All the best Smithe and may peace be with you.

BTW, no, I'm not a homo but my brother is. In fact I am getting married tomorrow and my homo brother will be my best man.

United States Intelligence!?

thats a fuckin oxymoron man

these dirty bums think they're going to win a war, give me a break

If there's suffering in other countries, special interest groups demand something be done. When the U.S. or UN go in to clean the house they're, "ONLY INTERESTED IN OIL, or MEDDLING IN THE WORLDS AFFAIRS AND IT'S NONE OF THEIR BUSINESS BEING THE BULLY!!!!!" Make up your godamn mind people. These countries are treating their own people like crap, and other than oil are becoming useless pieces of land, someone has to step in and stop some of these dictators. If it's a financial gain for the U.S. to step in then so be it, but at least they're stepping in. We in Canada should be supporting any effort the U.S puts forth, for they're the only thing that would keep us from being occupied or taken over. Remember: MANY OF THESE ARABS WERE DANCING IN THE STREETS AS WE WERE MOURNING THOUSANDS OF TRADE CENTRE VICTIMS!!!!!!!!

kevin

How do you know that these countries treat their people like a crab? You're their people?

while the palestnians were dancing on the street celebrating WTC attacks, the US was STILL sending military aid and economic support to the Israeli/Nazi/Racist/Apartheid regime. What hypocrisy! How in the hell could you NOT expect the Palestinians to dance with joy!!!!!!!!????? After all we've done to them... shame on us. And shame on the Israelis... the victims of the holocaust are turning over in their graves!!!! WARSAW GHETTO = GAZA STRIP!!!!!!!!!!!!!

As for countries treating their people like crap. Come to Dubai, United Arab Emirates and feast your eyes on the wealth. It is a more modern and tolerant country than the United States ever will be! 50% of the cars are mercedes for cryin out loud!!!!!!! The roads are built with high quality tar!!!! theres not a SINGLE pot-hole! In America people think theyre drving on roads but theyre driving on cheap concrete potholed gravel tracks!! In the UAE people there have the money for underground electric cables. They dont put cables on trees and then complain when the power lines falldown during a storm! THEY BUILD THEIR HOUSES OUT OF MARBLE AND CONCRETE not from pre-frabricated wood and cardboard (as in the US). Their streets are heavily lit with streetlights! they dont expect ppl to live in the dark... its so scary here in the US 99% of the country isnt even lit!!!!!! Whats more... NOBODY pays taxes!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They get all this luxury (including huge housing + they get PAID $1500 a month to go to college in addition to having their tuition paid... literally.... ALL FOR FREE. you call this treating them like shit?!!!! please man.... go to the UAE and realize that the US is a dump. lets fix our country first then meddle around with others.

so whats wrong with that "rightie" boy? the UAE government treats "its" people well. why should they give a damn bout the immigrants... its perfectly fine to ensure the well being of a minority by explotining the majority wouldnt u agree?

the fact remains the US is a dump and the UAE is the bomb

if the U.S. never came to being... you'd still be driving camels in the U. A. E., not mercedes. Technology across the globe would be about 50 years behind. There would be way more starvation across the globe, being the U.S. is the world's #1 Sugar Daddy. And if stupid americans would quit electing democratic leaders, the U.S. Intelligence would be far more superior. The U.S. was started by criminals and Euro rejects and refugees, so ofcourse corruption will always be apart of it. The main thing is, kiddies, we have to get the nukes out of the hands of countries who are run by invariant ( morons) and as for everyone else - "The problems that exist in the world today cannot be
solved by the level of thinking that created them." -Albert Einstein.

if the U.S. never came to being... you'd still be driving camels in the U. A. E., not mercedes. Technology across the globe would be about 50 years behind. There would be way more starvation across the globe, being the U.S. is the world's #1 Sugar Daddy. And if stupid americans would quit electing democratic leaders, the U.S. Intelligence would be far more superior. The U.S. was started by criminals and Euro rejects and refugees, so ofcourse corruption will always be apart of it. The main thing is, kiddies, we have to get the nukes out of the hands of countries who are run by invariant ( morons) and as for everyone else - "The problems that exist in the world today cannot be
solved by the level of thinking that created them." -Albert Einstein.

see the thing is the US was created by euro rejects that were persecuted. thats the reason they left euroland so that they could come to america and create a country where people could be FREE and EQUAL... REGARDLESS of RACE, RELIGION, and NATIONALITY. America wasnt and isnt perfect... it has been improving over the years - abolition of slavery, civil rights movement... it was doin so well until this redneck, barbeque, texan, southern, execute them all, hardy harr harr, varmit, gun slinging, moronic, throw them on the grill, lets barbeque them I-rakkeez, war on "terrowism", texan family values George W. Bush mother fucker came in and raped the values of america. IT IS JUST NOT RIGHT TO IMPRISON people because they look like "terrorists". terrorism is a serious threat but yuo cant jail all middle easterners just because they MIGHT be terrorists.

every year 10000+ are killed by people with guns! why not imprison allllll gun owners and interrogate them all until we find out which ones have violent backgrounds and are likely to use them on people? would that not make just as much sense as imprisoning all iranis?

george bush wants to barbeque and eat all these people just coz hes a fuckin idiot and hes not lookin at the long term consequences of his actions. americans dont fuckin realize that most people in the middle east dislike the US simply coz of its hypocritical policies in the middle east.

Israel... its a fact that it ethnically cleansed the land and forced the palestinians into ghettos to make room for a jewish motherland. their argument = god gave them this land...
what the fuck? sounds like nazi philosophy to me
who supports Israel? take a wild guess.
now give me one reason why palestinians and their muslim brethren would not hold that against america?

Iran... the US supported the Shah (a man equally as despicable as saddam hussein) inspite of the hatred felt toward him by the Iranis why? cheap oil...
now give me one reason why iranis would not hold that against america? what bout american shot down an iranian airliner in 1988 killing 280+ people!?

so now that iranis are bitter towards the US... Iran is now labeled as part of the axis of evil

i have an open mind. if someone can justify these actions on the part of the US and show me that these policies are not hypocritical that would be great (no sarcasm im being serious)

if the U.S. never came to being... you'd still be driving camels in the U. A. E., not mercedes. Technology across the globe would be about 50 years behind. There would be way more starvation across the globe, being the U.S. is the world's #1 Sugar Daddy. And if stupid americans would quit electing democratic leaders, the U.S. Intelligence would be far more superior. The U.S. was started by criminals and Euro rejects and refugees, so ofcourse corruption will always be apart of it. The main thing is, kiddies, we have to get the nukes out of the hands of countries who are run by invariant ( morons) and as for everyone else - "The problems that exist in the world today cannot be
solved by the level of thinking that created them." -Albert Einstein.

see the thing is the US was created by euro rejects that were persecuted. thats the reason they left euroland so that they could come to america and create a country where people could be FREE and EQUAL... REGARDLESS of RACE, RELIGION, and NATIONALITY. America wasnt and isnt perfect... it has been improving over the years - abolition of slavery, civil rights movement... it was doin so well until this redneck, barbeque, texan, southern, execute them all, hardy harr harr, varmit, gun slinging, moronic, throw them on the grill, lets barbeque them I-rakkeez, war on "terrowism", texan family values George W. Bush mother fucker came in and raped the values of america. IT IS JUST NOT RIGHT TO IMPRISON people because they look like "terrorists". terrorism is a serious threat but yuo cant jail all middle easterners just because they MIGHT be terrorists.

every year 10000+ are killed by people with guns! why not imprison allllll gun owners and interrogate them all until we find out which ones have violent backgrounds and are likely to use them on people? would that not make just as much sense as imprisoning all iranis?

george bush wants to barbeque and eat all these people just coz hes a fuckin idiot and hes not lookin at the long term consequences of his actions. americans dont fuckin realize that most people in the middle east dislike the US simply coz of its hypocritical policies in the middle east.

Israel... its a fact that it ethnically cleansed the land and forced the palestinians into ghettos to make room for a jewish motherland. their argument = god gave them this land...
what the fuck? sounds like nazi philosophy to me
who supports Israel? take a wild guess.
now give me one reason why palestinians and their muslim brethren would not hold that against america?

Iran... the US supported the Shah (a man equally as despicable as saddam hussein) inspite of the hatred felt toward him by the Iranis why? cheap oil...
now give me one reason why iranis would not hold that against america? what bout american shot down an iranian airliner in 1988 killing 280+ people!?

so now that iranis are bitter towards the US... Iran is now labeled as part of the axis of evil

i have an open mind. if someone can justify these actions on the part of the US and show me that these policies are not hypocritical that would be great (no sarcasm im being serious)

Israel is not a democracy. It does not extend the vote to palestinians residing in the territories it occupies. this has been studied by political scientists and the reason for this is that the palestinians would eventually outnumber the israelis and would vote in an arab prime minister. that is precisely what the Israelis DONT want. They want a state where the majority are jews. their non-democratic policies are reflect that.
what bout the discrimination within Israel? the Israeli-Arabs do not have the same rights as the Israelis simply because they are not jews. they receive significantly inferior education and health care and are forced to live only in Arab designated villages. Israel also refuses to take responsibility for the refugee crisis it created. what bout the 750,000 palestinians who were forced from their homes? who else caused the ethic cleansing of the palestinian mandate? what bout the palestinians who's land was confiscated by the israeli government AFTER the 1967 war so that they (the farmers) would be forced to work labor in israel. if israelis are the good guys why (just like saddam) were they so afraid to let in UN inspectors and international observers in to the country to see if a massacre occured in jenin? if they have nothing to hide, why do they not allow international observers in to VERIFY that their actions are purely defensive? if they are not killing indiscriminately whats to fear? what bout the hundreds of palestinian village wells poisoned by the Israelis so that the Palestinians could not return? what bout the collective punishment being imposed on the palestinians for the actions of a few suicide bombers? what about the week long 24 HOUR CURFEWS where palestinians can be shot to death just for leavign the house to go buy food! what bout the ban on international relief agencies such as the INTERNATIONAL RED CROSS from operating in palestinian territories? why were journalists not allowed in to israel to televise during its incursions into palestinian territories?

If you are so supportive of the Israelis tell me one thing. would u, as an american, have been willing to give up the state of New York to the Zionists in 1948 so that they could create a state (Israel) where they could live without fear of persecution? would you have been happy if they had kicked you out of your home state to make a state fro themselves under the pretense that god gave them that land?

as for terrorists. did u know that israel was FOUNDED by terrorists who fought both the Palestinians AND the British troops in the region (such as Menachem Begin - former Israeli PM). Many of the Palestinians who were ethnically cleansed from the land were forced out by israeli terrorists - they would bring out palestinians of their homes and shoot them in front of the rest of teh villagers to make examples of them. this was also practiced by israeli army troops.

The fact is that Israel is built on the homes of the Palestinians who had been living on that land for hundreds of years. right now, because of israel the palestinians are living in ghettos as did the jews before the nazis enacted their "final solution". Israel has a population of around 6 million and they receive 3billion dollars in aid. Egypt with a population vastly greater receives 3 billion


The UAE is much more developed than Israel and the USA COMBINED - it is also a country that is TRULY diverse.

Regardless of the US commander in chief , the mission still has to be carried out. (imagine if it were Jimmy or Al??? God help you all!!! Americanstein's Monster needs to be put to death now. After the nukes/weapons of mass destruction are out of the hands of the chimps (chimps being any Nation of Islam entity and presently, North Korea) then at least the world will be a "little" safer. Then you can begin to pick the weeds. The problem with North Korea is, if they keep on the same path, a lot of lives are going to be lost, and for what? North Korea will most likely be vaporized eventually, and hopefully soon unless the US would like to sacrifice parts of Alaska and the West Coast. A lot of innocent people are going to die because of the actions of a few communist chimps. Hey Bush may look like a chimp, but It's better to look like one, than to actually "think" like one...

and bush admirer i agree with yuo wholeheartedly that the mullahs are worse and they need a new revolution

but if it was not for the US
the shah would not have lasted for so long

AND as a result

the people would not have been so bitter that would put to power such morons (mullahs) in the first place.

Iran is changing... however slowly but it is changing
the US needs to passively participate in this change

calling it an evil country does not help

The problem is that they are still breathing and breding They should be taken out as children then they havent got a chance to go bad God Bless America

i hope bin ladens friends get there shot at killing amercans soldiers too

You really should learn to spell, you despicible little animal. Wishing death on American soldiers is really beyond the pale. I hope your inability to spell indicates you are a damn foreigner (and hence a victim of moronic Leftist policies which have addled your mind) and not a damn illegal immigrant or damn slum sloth. If you are one of the latter two, kindly leave.

Adios Jackass.

eh listen u fuckin stupid american
u learn to speak english first then talk.
all u can speak is that american english bullshit

Israel = Iran = Evil

Wow. This is a first. Apparently they have internet access in juvenile criminal facilities in the Upper Penninsula of Michigan. Welcome. Now learn to spell, create complete sentences, and stop using all that potty talk. Next week we'll work on paragraphs and making valid arguments.

United states destruction is made by mericans own hands and no one else to be blamed for 9/11. Treating muslims as such is inhuman and barbaric, but remember, americans will pay a heavy price for the cause worldwide in a tit for tat retaliation. This is cowardice action and americans pains will more severe on earth in the muslim soil. So, americans will remain the enemy of muslims with gowing anger forever.

United states destruction is made by mericans own hands and no one else to be blamed for 9/11. Treating muslims as such is inhuman and barbaric, but remember, americans will pay a heavy price for the cause worldwide in a tit for tat retaliation. This is cowardice action and americans pains will more severe on earth in the muslim soil. So, americans will remain the enemy of muslims with gowing anger forever.

United states destruction is made by mericans own hands and no one else to be blamed for 9/11. Treating muslims as such is inhuman and barbaric, but remember, americans will pay a heavy price for the cause worldwide in a tit for tat retaliation. This is cowardice action and americans pains will more severe on earth in the muslim soil. So, americans will remain the enemy of muslims with gowing anger forever.

United states destruction is made by mericans own hands and no one else to be blamed for 9/11. Treating muslims as such is inhuman and barbaric, but remember, americans will pay a heavy price for the cause worldwide in a tit for tat retaliation. This is cowardice action and americans pains will more severe on earth in the muslim soil. So, americans will remain the enemy of muslims with gowing anger forever. However, muslims welcome dialogue.

The problem, my learned friend, is that the entire Middle East is mired in the Middle Ages. Your governmental systems are archaic and corrupt, your populations largely uneducated. The peoples of the Middle East have achieved exactly nothing in the last thousand years with the possible exception of hummus. Not a stop light or a cell phone or a can opener or an artificial heart or a CD-ROM or a frigging pocket knife has ever been invented in, much less manufactured by the thuggish regimes of the Middle East. The Western world has embraced humanism and acceptance for decades, accepts millions of Muslims into their countries and incorporates them into their societies. Mosques are built in Brussels Belgium and Toledo Ohio. But how do the Christians and Jews fare in your pissant states? Jews who you refer to as "pigs and apes"? Denied civil rights, even looking a Muslim in the eye is a crime in some states. Denied the right to worship or in some cases to work.

Now the world is faced with your intolerance and ignorance, your wanton brutality and insane cruelty. Now some nations will stand up to barbarism. I suggest you get on the right side of the dividing line.

I hope that you all who believe all Americans are 'pigs', THAT America is not the only country who would like to fry all those sorry sons of ####s. If you dont support the Allies you are a spy or a terrorist yourself.
Peace? what peace, terrorists are amoung us, those people who have no meaning for life. Force is needed, war protestors go home. I rather not wear a rag on my head full of sand and blood blowing myself up for no reason.
Imagine war protestors in times like this? All the care is about themselves.

Sorry to day that history is filled with people treating each other poorly. Yes it is inhuman how the prisoners are being treated but then again, what about the people in the World Trade Center Towers? Yes I know, two wrongs don't make a right but grow up people, the world we live in is brutal and inhumane.

how can any person do that to a human being after all they are a loud to believe in anything they want so ya better fuck off or osama is going to kill ya ya basterds

I've been reading your very different oppinions about Bush, the upcoming war etc..
now without beeing called ignorant, stupid, dumbass or something else , which seems to be the most intelligent comment that both Simple Simon and his "buddies" can come up with, when hearing a different point-of-view than their own...
get over your self and replie in a deasent manor....

Now, about the topic: i wont pretend to know a lot about it, but it seems to me that both thev pros and the cons coming from most of you are very narrow-minded, I mean, some of you seem to think that any actions taking against Iraq will solve all the problems..

but I cant help thinking about the innocent Iraqis, I'm talking about the women, children etc (that have nothing to do with Al-Quada, Bin Laden)...they'll be killed too, and I know that an argument for not caring about those innocent people would be: they didn't care about women and children, old and young when they attacked America (9-11), but why bomb an entire people? wont that just be as ignorant and meaningless as their actions against us?...we wont be any better than them, will we?

Another thing is that all we'll achieve by bombing Iraq -beside of killing a whole lot of people- will be creating new and more vendictive enemies, i.e. the children and younger generation that survive our attacks...they'll grow up hating the US and the rest of the western world. They'll grow up and retaliate with new and far more powerfull weapon, than a couple of suicide-bombers on aeroplanes. They'll get their hands on mass-destruction weapons -if they dont all ready have them- and if we dont stop this crazy circle of retaliations, we just might end up not having a world to defend.......
or a world to leave behind to our children, grandchildren etc...

think about that, when advocating for war....

You're an ignorant stupid dumbass.

But besides that, your solution to international terrorism and states that threaten their neighbors with nuclear, biological, and chemical weapons is?

You have decided that we shouldn't go to war with Iraq because we might kill some Iraqis. Oh, now that's good. Why didn't enlightened people such as yourself show up here before? If we go to war with somebody, some civilians will die. I hadn't thought of that.

But wait, doesn't that mean we could never go to war with anybody? Are you saying we shouldn't have fought the Second World War? Yes, we were attacked by the Japanese and all, but the Germans never bombed Pearl Harbor. And we bombed the crap out of dozens of German cities. I'll bet at least a couple of innocent civilians were killed. Golly. I hope the German and Japanese people aren't furious with us and plotting their revenge. All these Japanese and German terrorists running all over hijacking planes and training in Switzerland and such. I sure am happy you came along to set us straight.

Thanks.

I, for one, have long been in favor of removing Saddam Hussein from power. But to couch it in the terms our current administration is doing is disingenuous. I understand it opens a whole can of worms for many serving in the Bush team, but that is precisely why it is reviled internationally. The obfuscation of facts and distortion of history to justify this assault is ludicrous. It has many merits that exist outside WMD. If America started to come clean about some of its shadier prcatices (never gonna happen), the world would line up to remove the current Iraqi regime. But the buildup of the Iraqi war machine has too many ties with current military contractors, as well as numerous American (and German and other) Pharmaceutical and Biological companies. This information was excised from the report the US handed on to the other UN members. Call it limiting liability for war crimes, call it back scrathing, call it what you will. This turning a blind eye and distracting attention from previous (hopefully none still exist) associations destroys our credible stance for Iraqi regime change.

But the US has a funny way of turning history on its head. Look at the US's UN Ambassador: http://eagle.westnet.gr/~cgian/negroponte.htm

now there's no need to get all sarcastic...I know, that you know that war means people getting killed. You are not COMPLETELY ignorant yourself..are you????

Now, back to buisness. about the second world war: yes, a lot of people were killed, but that was a completely different situation, where you americans, by the way, didn't "help" any of us europeans untill the japanese brought the war to you!!!! you did not want to get involved in a war far far away...why was that?
-Because you were too concerned with yourselves and didn't really care whether a couple of europeans died! But as soon as it's your own country that's being attacked, you expect the whole entire f*cking world to back you up, don't you?
You expect the UN, NATO and included in that my own people to "run" down to Iraq and kill them all..because you and your president Bush says so. Why should we care whether your being attacked?
Now, I even got the answer for that: because this is different. It's a different situation, different enemy, different victims.....
But that's just it. It's completely different, and that's why it's completely irrelevant what happend 50 years ago...

On that note I'll change the subject a bit.
I DO agree that Saddam Hussein should be "removed", even his own people wants that, but why not try and find a different way of doing it, and before you get all worked up, I don't know how, but there must be a better solution than killing everybody trying to do so..?
All I'm saying is that I think that your beloved President Bush is rushing it a bit...and I cant help thinking: WHY?
Money, power, because he can? Because he's getting a bit out of hand? You tell me? and dont give the bullshit about it being "the only thing to do, that they all deserve it" etc..bla bla..whatever!
wouldn't it for all of our sakes be better to ...I dont know..find some sort of a peacefull solution? Or at least give the world a chance before destroying it?
Wouldn't you like to live in a peacefull world? A world we can be proud of?
thanks, right back at ya!

So you don't have an answer for dealing with international Islamist terrorism and Saddam Hussein, But your all for doing something, sometime, if it doesn't cause trouble. Wow. Now that's a platform.

The reason we are 'rushing' to deal with Saddam Hussein is that we aren't going to wait for him to finish development of weapons which will be used on our troops. If Hussein were to possess a nuclear device, it would render him almost invulnerable to attack. He will be in a position to intimidate his neighbors with impunity and not have to fear reprisal.

As for your analysis of history, my dear, you really should brush up. True, the United States was against getting into the fray directly, yet they supplied billions of dollars in military hardware to both the Soviet Union and Great Britain from 1939. Irony of ironies is that you feel free to castigate the United States for it's failure to act preemptively in WWII, and you have the chutzpah to attack us now that we are. Kindly make up your mind.

Pray tell, which Scandinavian state are you a citizen of? Finland - the Nazi client? Sweden - who played the Soviets off against the Nazis and traded with both? Denmark - the state that surrendered so quickly it's still in the Guinness Book of World Records? Or Norway - I won't talk bad about Norway. They have very valiant creatures there. And in all fairness the Fins were merely avenging themselves on the Soviets for the 1939 winter war, and the Swedes had no one to help them, so they did what they had to to survive, but that's besides the point.

The fact is that 99% of post-war reconstruction of your precious Europe was funded by the United States. Fact is that we house and fund every damn international relief agency on Earth. Fact is that NATO is a US made, run, and paid for security blanket that protects your silly hides so you can socialize medicine and bitch about Americans. If you want out of NATO then by all means. There's the door.

Shouldn't really dignify you with an answer, but here goes:
I'm Dane, and for the record we didn't really have anybody helping us when we tried to fight off the Germans, so at that end you can give us a bit of your sympathi, and we fought the Nazis when they were here as well as France, just to mention another country, who surrendered as well...yes Denmark surrendered to the Germans, but you tell me: did we stand a chance? have you ever seen the size of our country or considered the fact that we in 2003 only have a population of 5 million, we weren't really more back then..and Germany was represented by...? I have no idea how many but several millions more than us..and they were prepared, we weren't!!
Now back to the actual topic: I do believe the situation is a bit vice versa than back fifty years ago. The attack was on you, not us! you're not helping us, but yourselves!
And as for the billions of dollars you gave Europe: Thank you, your selfrighteous ****. Yes you helped us out, but that was the least you could do after watching the Nazi regime destroy us..and besides, you needed us back, the war didn't really help your economy, now did it? now. ..
wont be back for a while, so whether you wanna reply to this or not is completely up to you. I've got enough of this/you. I'm going to go out and do something beside of writing about it..see you out there..or will I? I don't think you'll participate with much more than your bullshit comments on a computer...

After reading the countless references from lulli, I really want to know where you got this notion that ANY plan for an assault on Iraq includes "killing everyone". What the hell are you talking about? What part of recent world and military history did you miss that enables you to believe that "everyone" will die if we remove Sadam with force?
By the way, we are talking about a populace that has allowed a monster to rule them for decades, saying and doing NOTHING while he's systematically tortured and killed thousands and thousands of their own. Now all of a sudden, they're all just innocent victims in this awful US led atrocity. Every culture gets the leaders it deserves.

Lulli, a country which fails to defend it's citizenry is no country at all. Size is not an excuse. Switzerland is no behemoth, yet successfully has deterred agression for centuries. Belgium is not geographically impressive nor overly populated, yet in both the first and second world wars they fought with distinction against the Germans who invaded their country. The sad fact is that your country ignored the dangers of the German Reich until it was too late. Failing to enter into mutual protection pacts with your neighbors, especially after the Polish invasion highlights the foolishness of your government, and their inability to grasp the situation.

As far as after the war, you're welcome. Now, don't bite the hand that feeds you, that's bad form. And yes, we did need Denmark back, at least to make some Legos for our children.

I get out every day, Lulli. Biking, working out, running with a pack on my back, swimming, and practicing my shooting. I'm participating more than you know. I'm just not playing for your team.

simple simon is simple fuckin stupid american whiteboy dumbass

We who raise our voice against the onslaught of the New Reich under Bush have learned the lesson which Germany won at a bitter price.

Oppose the Tyrant Bush and the evil of the Fourth Reich.

I like your handle American Beauty. Why not post a photo and show us what you've got?

However, I'd strongly encourage you to stick with beauty contests and stay away from intellectual debate. You're obviously ill equipped for the latter. By your Reich mutterings, you're helping to further discredit the left.

The group in Germany that protested the
rampage of Hitler and the 3rd Reich.
They were rounded up and executed.

The problem with that anology, Sheepsniffer, is that Bush is to Hitler as, as, as:

As Ben Franklin was to Blackbeard the Pirate

As John Kennedy was to Idi Amin

As Winston Churchill was to Stalin

etc etc

The destruction, and savage death of all muslims everywhere is vital to the continued peace and prosperity of the planet. I am not religious, nor do I believe in god. How could I support something that has been an excuse for war and the murder of countless millions for thousands of years. We should start digging the hole for the mass muslim grave today,
surely it's bound to be huge.

heheheh notice that the guy above doesnt want death for the muslims.
he wants "savage" death for them
hehehehehehe
fuckin idiot

heheheh notice that the guy above doesnt want death for the muslims.
he wants "savage" death for them
hehehehehehe
fuckin idiot

heheheh notice that the guy above doesnt want death for the muslims.
he wants "savage" death for them
hehehehehehe
fuckin idiot

In response to Simple Simon - you forget that Wall Street financed Hitler as did Henry Ford. The US government allowed the Lusitania (WW1) to be sunk and Pearl Harbour and 911 attacks to happen. The biggest act of terrorism for all time has been the nuke-ing of Hiroshima & Nagasaki two days after the Nippon emperor had unconditionally surrendered.

You believe your own shit too much!

Gregg - Go in for a brain transplant right away. Until you do you're a danger to yourself and your neighbors.

This is a public service announcement.

But Greg, YOU forget that Japan KnEW we were going to bomb and LET US! So, the blood's on their hands. And, Iraq knows we will attack so......

fresca - have your ears popped today?

So, if someone tells you that he has psychic powers
with which he can destroy your entire family if you
don't give him everything you own, and you don't, and
he does, then your family's blood is on your hands?
Or their own, since you use "Japan" (and "Iraq") as a
collective noun.

Yes, Saddam Hussein knows that the U.S. will violate
international law and invade Iraq, resulting in the deaths
of thousands of innocent Iraqis. Of course he could
save all those innocent people that he loves so much
by altruistically turning himself over to us as is
consistent with his nature. But if, beyond all
expectation, he doesn't do that, then all the blood
of those innocent Iraqis killled in this illegal war
is somehow not the responsibility of those who spill
it.

The fact is that you and people like you, with your
facile use of collective nouns like "Japan" and "Iraq"
that make no distinctions between Hirohito and
newborn Japanese babies or Saddam Hussein
and newborn Iraqi babies are amoral
monsters who would likely do exactly as Saddam Hussein does if you were in his position.

I offered something reasonable and worthy of discussion i.e. the US funding Hitler. You however just took a cheap shot. Sad and telling of the general mindset you represent!

We dropped a bomb on Hiroshima.

Japan had every chance to surrender, and they were invited to surrender.

They didn't.

We dropped the bomb on Nagasaki

Yes, the blood is on their hands for Nagasaki.

And the US should feel zero guilt for either bombing. We saved many thousands of US Servicemen by doing that.

Truthteller,
It is for those very Iraqi babies, in which the righteous, ever virtuous American military shall conquer Iraq and liberate them. Imagine had we not defeated and occupied Japan, would those innocent Japanese babies have a chance for freedom? How about generations to come of Japanese people? Would they have had freedom? What I'm trying to say is that liberation may bring about some unfortunate deaths, but whats worse, leaving them and their childrens children to be essentially slaves? In the immortal words of a famous American, GIVE ME LIBERTY OR GIVE ME DEATH!

I suppose those innocent Japanese babies should have been blown away too based on your reasoning. I agree that more lives were saved on both sides because we used nuclear weapons, but to say that all Japanese people were against America and deserved to die in a nuclear detonation is offensive.

The Japanese were on the verge of collapse.
The Soviets were due to join the Pacific war on August 25,
but Truman didn't want them to share in the spoils,
so he slaughtered 100,000's of thousands of Japanese
civilians (but announced on the radio that Hiroshima was
"a military base" -- the opposite was true, which is why
Hiroshima was intact at that point). It's in his diaries.

"some unfortunate deaths"

It seems so easy for some people to rationalize mass murder.

Your handle is about as dishonest as they come. You're no 'Truth Teller.' I'd suggest a more appropriate handle like "Left Wing Spin Doctor."

The Japanese regime was of a mind to fight to the death. That was apparent from the sharp and substantial escalation of the suicide bombings in the Battle of Okinawa. There was no indication that Japan was about to surrender, quite the contrary.

Truman needed to send a strong message to the people of Japan letting them know that their leaders were not making good decisions. The message was sent, and it was received. The bombings ended the war. It was the right thing to do.

Unfortunately, nuclear weapons had to be used on Japan, it was the moral thing to do, very destructive, very deadly, but moral, also, the Soviet help was pathetic, they arrived late in the war, because they wanted America to do all the fighting. Thank god that the Soviets didnt take over Japan, or else we would have another communist north Japan, democratic south Japan.

Whatever you say, Timothy. After all, you know more
than all the historians.

http://www.doug-long.com/summary.htm

Knowledge is power.

Posting a link to some left wing diatribe web site is hardly the way to prove anything. This guy Doug Long (nose) is not trying to review history, he's trying to spin history.

It was very provacative, however, i still feel hindsight is 20/20 and I can see how the Americans might have felt there was no other way out other than nuclear weapons, but nevertheless, thanks for the website.

*You* claimed that it was necessary to drop the bombs.
But that is based on *your* ignorance, coupled with
*your* arrogance. And you know no more about
Iraq, but are prepared to advocate the killing of
numerous innocent civilians based on your ignorance
and arrogance. Oh, it's just swell that you may
decide differently in hindsight.

From the article:

In 1948 Sec. of War Henry Stimson published his memoirs, ghost-written by McGeorge Bundy. In them Stimson revealed, "It is possible, in the light of the final surrender, that a clearer and earlier exposition of American willingness to retain the Emperor would have produced an earlier ending to the war". Stimson and Bundy continued, "Only on the question of the Emperor did Stimson take, in 1945, a conciliatory view; only on this question did he later believe that history might find that the United States, by its delay in stating its position, had prolonged the war." (Stimson & Bundy, pg. 628-629).

Robert Butow has affirmed Stimson's position: "Secretary of War Stimson has raised the question of whether an earlier surrender of Japan could have been achieved had the United States followed a different diplomatic and military policy during the closing months of the war. In the light of available evidence, a final answer in the affirmative seems possible, even probable." Butow continues, "Although it cannot be proved, it is possible that the Japanese government would have accepted the Potsdam Proclamation immediately had Secretary Stimson's reference to the imperial structure been retained. Such a declaration, while promising destruction if Japan resisted, would have offered hope if she surrendered. This was precisely Stimson's intention." Butow adds, "The Japanese military... interpreted the omission of any commitment on the Throne as evidence of the Allied intention to destroy forever the foundation stone of the Japanese nation. Here was an invaluable trump card unintentionally given them by the Allies, and the militarists played it with unfailing skill." (Butow, pg. 140-141).

Martin Sherwin has also followed up on Stimson's observation: "That unconditional surrender remained an obstacle to peace in the wake of Hiroshima, Nagasaki, and the Soviet declaration of war - until the government of the United States offered the necessary (albeit veiled) assurance that neither Emperor nor throne would be destroyed - suggests the possibility, which even Stimson later recognized, that neither bomb may have been necessary; and certainly that the second one was not." (Sherwin, pg. 237, emphasis in original). As noted earlier, Stimson explained, "the Allied reply [to Japan's 8/10 surrender offer]... implicitly recognized the Emperor's position" (Stimson & Bundy, pg. 627).

As with Iraq, many military brass questioned or downright
opposed the actions taken against Japan:

http://www.doug-long.com/quotes.htm

Yes, i do decide differently based on hindsight. Suppose if we didnt nuke Japan and we gave them the conditional surrender option, sure they may have surrendered peacefully, however, they also could have kept on fighting indefinately, resulting in thousands of more deaths than our nuclear reaction.
Sorry, but what if youre wrong, what if the any other option other than force results in mass casualities for America or our allies? A lot of hypothetical questions really......but as powell says, force should be an option.

Eisenhower, MacArthur,Stimson, etc. etc. all believed
it wasn't necessary, *beforehand*. But you, who know
absolutely nothing, continue to spin what-ifs.

As for Powell, he covered up My Lai and it's been all
downhill since then.

George Tenet says that Saddam Hussein isn't a threat
*unless* we attack. But hey, since you know nothing
else, perhaps you don't know who George Tenet is;
perhaps, like that imbecile "Bush Admirer", you think
he's a left winger.

I'll' say it again: it's so easy for some people to rationalize
killing masses of innocent people.

Ok, they may all have agreed that nukes were not an acceptable solution, i haven't researched their positions. However, you call me ignorant because i spin off what-ifs. Hello? You are too, how can you say for 100% that not nuking Japan would have been better off than using nukes? Are you some sort of mindreader? Can you predict the future? Are you a prophet of God? If you answered no to any one of these things, you are a complete hypocrite to call me ignorant.

If your son was bombed in Pearl Harbor and died, would you want to risk the life of your other son in an invasion of Japan if they decided not to surrender? Oh wait, maybe you would just run off to Canada.....

I have no idea who this Tenet is, please enlighten me, as for your mass civilian casualities dying, whose fault is that? If a hostage taker has a gun against a hostage and police decide to try and save the hostage as well as take out the hostage-taker, in the process, the hostage taker kills the hostage, is that the fault of the police? To your reasoning, this would be the fault of the police, which is absolutely disgusting. Mass civilians may be killed when Hussein places them in stragetic places. If you really symphathize for the hostage-taker Hussein, then you should join the movement of human shields to protect innocent civilians, that may save one or two lives, idk. But your statistics of 2342342342342323 people dying is complete BS. Itll be quick and i doubt that much loss of live will be inflicted.

*You* claimed that it was *necessary* to drop the
bombs, that doing so saved lives. Where did you learn
that, when virtually all the top brass at the time believed
otherwise, when the quotes and the article make
it clear that many people such as Eisenhower,
MacArthur, Herbert Hoover, believed that we could
have saved American lives months earlier by allowing
Japan to keep the Emperor, which we ended up doing
anyway?

It has nothing to do with "100%", it has to do with
ignorant and arrogant people like yourself never ever
being willing to concede anything, no matter how
much evidence is presented. I tried to be sensible
and reasonable with you, and provide you with
information, but you appear to be hopeless.

"Just when the Japanese were ready to capitulate, we went ahead and introduced to the world the most devastating weapon it had ever seen and, in effect, gave the go-ahead to Russia to swarm over Eastern Asia.

"Washington decided that Japan had been given its chance and now it was time to use the A-bomb.

"I submit that it was the wrong decision. It was wrong on strategic grounds. And it was wrong on humanitarian grounds."

Ellis Zacharias
(Deputy Director of the Office of Naval Intelligence),
How We Bungled the Japanese Surrender, Look, 6/6/50, pg. 19-21.

You stupid fucking ignorant asshole.

Thanks F a g g o t, go burn the American flag, my father and my grandfather served in the air force, but your relatives were high on weed and spit on them when they returned from serving their country, if i ever saw you on the street i would f u c k ing beat you and then ship you to your homeland, Iraq, to get f u c king raped by Husseins rape squads, what you dont know about them? You dont know about Husseins atrocities? Thats right igorant f u ck er, keep on defending Butcher Hussein, unpatriotic f u c k!

There are maggots where your brain should be.

Cant trust one source f u ck er, specially off the internet, i never said bombing them with nuclear weapons were necessarily, once again when you f a g g o t s are losing a conversation you resort to name-calling and perverting the truth, but then again, who are you? A dirty unpatriotic mother f u c k er, thats who. Go f u ck yourself with your quotes, i hope you feel better.




You know, when America liberates Iraq, youre gonna look f u c k ing stupid, ill come back here to insult you because youll be wrong. Thank GOD youll never have a position of political power, c o c k sucker!

Hahahahahaha, go f u c k yourself, bitch

You sound like you're about 12. That might explain
why you don't know who George Tenet is. Apparently
you also don't know who Dwight Eisenhower, Herbert
Hoover, and Douglas MacArthur were. Of course,
since they don't agree with you, they must be unpatriotic
faggot pussies.

Like I said, there are maggots where your brain should be,
and everything you say confirms that.

"nuclear weapons had to be used on Japan"

"i never said bombing them with nuclear weapons were necessarily"

Maggots, nothing but maggots. I'm outa here.
Have a nice life, maggot head.

Why waste your time anymore with
this moron, truthteller?
I'll give him a peanut and he'll
be happy.

Faggot, i dont give a fuck what 5 people said and their opinion, what about higher ups in the military, what about the american public, what about the japanese public? they all agree that nukes had to be used dumbshit. why dont you come up with other gay conspiracy theories and suck your daddies cock! Wait! I mean your dads pussy, haha, liberal fucker, i know your daddy had a sex change

Hahaha, your quotes are hilarious, after you gave me the webpage, i felt unsure about using nukes in the first place, thus my position changed, i still feel nukes probably had to be used though, dumbshit, but if you got bombed like in pearl harbor you would let the japanese rape you because ''mass murder'' is wrong. You fucking idiot, you have a right to protect yourself, nukes was used to protect america, how about you go to iraq and let the terrorists kill you, fucking retard. Maggot head is the most gayest thing i ever heard, but wait, you are gay, fucking gay faggot!

America is a sick, evil place, thats why i suggest we convert to socialism or communism much like other terrorist regimes in the world. What? Don't agree? Well, youre a filthy capitalist American thats why, Iraq must be protected and Hussein as well.

Truth teller, youre starting to really piss me off, how dare you complain about capitalism, the form of economics which you live under, sure, communism is good in theory, but greedy cunts such as yourself will take advantage of the system, resulting in economic collapse of our country, as with what happened in the USSR.

Look at China, fucking idiot, they will one day surpass our economy.

When will you capitalist, rightist, Bill O'Reilly jacking freaks realize that America is pure shit, including you, why don't you bomb Iraq and kill innocent civilians.

Fuck, its easy to rationalize America's atrocities when you bastards bomb and kill millions of innocents. But when a country, a soveign country I might add, such as Iraq even does the slightest thing you rightist fucks overreact.

I hope you die, I hope you rightist Americans all die, like the innocent Iraqi children will. I hope Iraq builds nukes and bombs your cities, fucking ignorant maggot head.

Truth teller
is correct, while
i think capitalism is
best for America,
i agree, that Tim is
a fuker. Don't kill
innocent Iraqi babies,
fuker. Timothy, I'll kill
you next time we meet.

While i support every persons right to express themselves, i start to see a pattern arising. Peaceful protesters such as yourself name-calling, threatening, bullying, if they dont agree with your ideas. I think Truth teller really fucked his mind out on X or whatever you guys use. Nuking American cities, be they rightist or leftist, moderate, shit, is never right, and what the fuck is up with communism, truth teller has become a fucking commie, haha, what a waste of my time trying to change the mind of a commie.

You piece of shit, I never said to bomb all American cities, I said to bomb the city you're in bitch.

Fucking read what I say.

You say that we have a right to express ourselves, well, I am expressing myself, YOU'RE WRONG, we shouldn't have nuked innocent Japanese civilians, we shouldn't have inteferred in Europe, Middle East, Asia, we have no right to kill them.

America is evil, thanks to people like you Timothy, all America, we need to 'liberate' the American public from followers of the capitalist road, ignorant maggot head, read history.

America deserves to be nuclearly annihilated, and I hope Iraq gets the chance to do so since you pigs are so hopefully against it.

FUCK AMERICA, NO BLOOD FOR OIL

I'm outa here, fucking maggots everywhere, FUCK!

Good, leave, nobody likes you, fricking communist. Again, if i see you walking down the street, i think i'll do the world a favor and shoot you in the fucking face, unpatriotic motherf u c ke r, go join your Iraqi friends, well have a jolly old time blasting you to where you belong, HELL, thats right, youre gonna burn in HELL, you mother fu c k e r. AMERICA WILL PREVAIL!

You're being led around by the nose -- there are at least
two people posting here calling themselves "truth teller".
Are you really so lame as to not be able to tell?

"Hahaha, your quotes are hilarious,"

They're your quotes.

"after you gave me the webpage, i felt unsure about using nukes in the first place, thus my position changed,"

There's a difference between "I said
nuclear weapons had to be used, but I reconsidered"
and "I never said they had to be used", but it takes
a brain, not maggots, to understand the difference.

Truth teller, you should be the last person to judge others based on what they say, for example you point out that i made one mistake, that i said nukes had to be used, true, ill admit that, but you stupid f u c ker! Lets look at some of your quotes you anti-american commie: ''FUCK AMERICA, NO BLOOD FOR OIL'' Fuck America?! How dare you. ''I'm outa here, fucking maggots everywhere, FUCK!'' Am I one of those maggots? Because I believe in protecting America and our allies? You are one sick individual, i hope the american marines take you out with saddam.

Why are you making the claim that there are two truth tellers only now? One of them baiting me around? I dont get it, in fact, i think its a ploy. I dont know what the fuck youre trying to do, but it wont work. I support Bush and America all the way.

I find the arguments between truth teller and Timothy Jones to be quite distasteful. And to add some intelligence to this conversation, I shall make the following point:

We will continue to go after Al-Qaeda, but if Saddam is able to develop these weapons and they do get into the hands of Al-Qaeda how much more dangerous will Al-Qaeda and thier kind be to us. How much more damage will they cause with their next attack, using weapons much more sophisticated and devastating and a jet and a building.
And how will we see it coming? We must remove the WMD factor from the equation. Then we can re-focus on Al-Qaeda.
Is Bush my president? Yes, he is your as well as much as you would deny it.
Do I believe in everything he does? Perhaps not, but in the event of war I would support him, how could I not? If a war is waged the lack of support will only make it more devastating.
I believe in the constitution and I believe in freedom of speech and demonstration. I'm not against you, but I hope that if we do go to war we will do it together.
Yes, I have courage. It is a slight for you to accuse anyone not of your opinion of being cowardice. I don't support violence and death, I am not a cold blooded and heartless person who would see innocents suffer.
I do however have a sense of duty and would suffer myself if it would prevent the suffering of others. I believe you would do the same. That is what makes us such a great people, self sacrifice and a sense of justice, honor.
I believe that the UN should be with us if we do go to war. A pre-emptive strike against Iraq must be a last resort.
I can not believe you would think that every one who does not agree with you completely wants war. I would as you not to accuse. It is a spiteful statement to say I support violence, death, and the killing of innocents.
If Saddam poses no threat directly I would ask you to consider the following proverb.

"The Enemy of my Enemy is my Friend"

We have all heard the tapes by Bin Laudin. He knows Iraq and Al-Qaeda share a common enemy. He voiced it to the world. How long if not already do you think it will be before they mix company.

A threat to American Freedom and Democracy? No, We will be a free nation no matter.
American Security and the safety of it citizens and allies? Absolutely. There can be no doubt of that threat.

Richard Garrard,
I'm glad to hear you are not against the military. That is heartening, I will research your statements and view what I find objectively. If you have any information you would like to share please feel free to e-mail me at

joabrufio808@hotmail.com

I welcome anything you can send.
I would never ignore information and would ask you all to do a bit of research as well. Try to look at the points of view of the other side of the debate.
I thank you for your sentiments and assure you they are returned in kind.

Joab

One more thing, truth teller, communism is just horrible. I can't believe an American like you would support such a thing.

It seems to me, that the word Hypocrocy comes into this. Did the Us government not fund the terrorist cell in Ireland, known at the IRA!? - you killed innconent civilians. And yet, as soon as terrorism hits the US, all of a sudden it's a tragedy. No, it wasn't! What goes around cones around. These "terrorists" did something benefical to the world, they should not be tortured, they should be praised.
You see america, it's not very nice to say that is it? But let me remind you of the BIGGEST TERRORIST act. It was an extremely cowardly act. It was carried out by the US, and it happened in Japan, in a city known a Hirsoshima! - remeber that? - that was the first act of major terrorism the world has ever seen. So you can go fuck yourselves you stupid America infedels! HA HA HA HA HA burb, burn!!!!!

By that reasoning, both the Soviet Union and China
were our friends throughout the Cold War, since they
were enemies of each other and of us. By that reasoning,
both the KKK and the JDL are friends of civilized people
because thet are the enemies of both themselves and
of civilized people. Such proverbs are a poor substitute for rational thought and analysis.

Joab, you talk about "duty". Your duty is to humanity and to ethical behavior, not to a man who happens to hold
a political office at the moment -- else all Iraqis have
a duty to support Saddam Hussein as well. If there's
a difference between us and them, it's surely the
principles that we uphold and they don't -- principles
that you reject with your talk of "duty", and with your
lie about bin Laden's tape -- bin Laden calls
Saddam's goverment "infidels" and calls about the
Iraqi people to rise up against the West; this doesn't
show that bin Laden and the Iraqis are on the
same side any more than the KKK calling upon
while Americans to join their race war shows that
the KKK and white Americans are on the same side.
That's stupid-think, proverb-think.

A better concept of duty was given by President Theoodore Roosevelt:

"The President is merely the most important among a large number of public servants. He should be supported or opposed exactly to the degree which is warranted by his good conduct or bad conduct, his efficiency or inefficiency in rendering loyal, able, and disinterested service to the Nation as a whole. Therefore it is absolutely necessary that there should be full liberty to tell the truth about his acts, and this means that it is exactly necessary to blame him when he does wrong as to praise him when he does right. Any other attitude in an American citizen is both base and servile. To announce that there must be no criticism of the President, or that we are to stand by the President, right or wrong, is not only unpatriotic and servile, but is morally treasonable to the American public. Nothing but the truth should be spoken about him or any one else. But it is even more important to tell the truth, pleasant or unpleasant, about him than about any one else."

"Why are you making the claim that there are two truth tellers only now?"

I told you after the other one posted; I couldn't tell you
before that because I'm not psychic; duh.

"I dont get it"

That's an understatement.

"I dont know what the fuck youre trying to do, but it wont work. I support Bush and America all the way."

I tried to inform and enlighten you because you seemed
to be slightly brighter than Bush Admirer, but I was
mistaken. Indeed you're right, it won't work, because
you've got maggots where youre brain should be.
Indeed you support Bush regardless of his behavior,
regardless of the facts, regardless of the tremendous
harm he is doing to America -- our
laws, our principles, and our future.

Thats a laugh, I dont get it, why you support Hussein that is, regardless of Husseins behavior, youll never admit that we need to do the world a favor and kill him. Regardless of his behavior, regardless of the facts, regardless of the tremendous harm he is doing to America, youll never admit it. In fact your statements against Bush state one thing, that you ABSOLUTELY hate Bush. You cant stand that Bush is so popular, that he is doing a good job, that the American people love him. Youre one of those Clinton fans, who never questioned his war policies on Kosovo or the Middle East. But now! Oh god, its a travesty that Bush would ever try and protect his country. Dont you understand? Its not about Bush, its about the good for America, you can hate Bush, fine, but dont hate his policies, make up your mind for what is good for America, not because of your right wing, conservative, religious biase.

http://www.thenation.com/doc.mhtml?i=20030303&s=schell
http://www.counterpunch.org/christison02082003.html

You talk about articles for those without maggots in their heads, and send a link to "The Nation" and "counterpunch?" Did you forget "Al Jazeerah?" I might as reasonably counter with an article from "frontpagemagazine."
If all you read is such leftist nonsense, that's all you will believe. Try to get out more, dude. Know your enemy. That's why I'm here.

There's a term for someone who trashes an article
because of where it was published, without even
addressing its content -- "intellectual coward".
Just imagine if Thomas Jefferson had rejected what
was written in the Federalist Papers simply because it
*was* written in the Federalist Papers, instead of presenting a reasoned response. People like you
with nothing intelligent to say don't deserve his legacy.

"If all you read is such leftist nonsense"

The fact is that I read all kinds of stuff, asshole.

Sure doesn't sound like it. Do you think you get unbiased reporting from the Nation? Jackass.

Everyone's biased, hekkus. Do your biases automatically
make everything you say "nonsense"? Well, maybe in
your case.

Usa is going down because a bomb is heading toward New York



Sincerely osama

Truth teller should not be allowed to return to the US, you should spend the rest of your life as a foreigner.

Actions from Americans such as this makes me think: Have people forgotten what has happened in the not-so-distant past? The USS Cole, embassies in Africa, Bali, the Pentagon, the World Trade Center, etc.

Islamic extremists hate us. They do not want us to live on their Earth. They believe we are infidels and should not be breathing their air.

Hollywood celebrities are now making commercials asking: ''Why War?''. I'll tell you why: because it is the only way to stop this disease that has finally crept upon us and is eating away at our soul as Americans.

Could you imagine celebrities doing commercials against WWII? Are we supposed to sit down with our enemies and ask politely if they would stop terrorizing the world?

It will happen, a terrorist will act upon the US again and it will be just as destructive as 9-11. Maybe Americans will understand the real threat is upon us.

Well, good luck truth teller. I hope you don't get mistaken as an enemy (which wouldn't be hard) and catch a 30 mm round as a result.

We have not forgotten:

The sinking of the Maine used to justify the Spanish American War.

The sinking of the Lusitania, which was armed thus making it a legitimate target in war, allowed to go through known U-Boat controlled waters. To justify U.S. intervention in WWI - which Britain was about to lose.

The Reichstag Fire used to justify Hitler taking dictatorial power.

The Attack on Pearl Harbor engineered by Roosevelt to justify the entry of the U.S. into WWII contrary to his campaign pledge to not get involved in "Europe's War".

The phony Gulf of Tonkin attack used to justify escalation in Vietnam - 58,000 U.S. casualties.

April Glaspie giving Saddam a green light to invade Kuwait and the "Baby Incubator Story" invented by PR Firm Hill and Knowlton (delivered in false testimony to Congress by the daughter of the Kuwaitii Ambassador claiming to have been a volunteer in the hospital) to drum up sympathy and justification for U.S. intervention in Kuwait (which the U.S. Public was against prior to this phony story being planted).

The inconsistencies of 911: A precision timed attack carried out by 19 Arab Hijackers flying commercial jets but yet who could not competently fly a Cessna 180, who do not show up on any of the passenger lists, but were all identified within 48 hours, who were allowed free flight time for 2 hours by NORAD, and hate our freedoms, and being good Muslim's went out drinking and whoring the night before the attack????? And of course they all died in the attack - except for the 8 documented to still be alive, 6 of whom were not even on the North American Continent at the time of the attack.

And then we have the Blair - Powell project dossier compiled from an Israeli Foreign Policy Journal - which the author says was compiled from data gleaned from Gulf Massacre I in 1991.

So, of course we believe, in a childlike faith, in the honesty, integrity, and truthfulness of the Wonderful Deserter, and his Chickenhawk Coterie, in Washington.

Wanna buy a Bridge?

Busheee is a fucking sick oil hungry murderer along with Rummyyy and Chenyyy and powelleee

Thats right, its all a conspiracy, stupid shit. Kinda like how I work with the government, see, i have your ip address which i can trace to you, and when i find you, i'm going to kill you. Hahahaha! Seriously, kinda like 9-11 was all a conspiracy, Im gonna rape you and your family, then kill you, because you know the actual truth, and then I'm gonna use the standard government tricks, like place evidence it was muslim extremists that did it. Serious, youre next bitch, get ready to die.

"The Attack on Pearl Harbor engineered by Roosevelt"

Hmmmm. A new escalation of the previous, unexplained theory of "Roosevelt knew". Care to elaborate?

It’s a little much to cover in a short post here’s the short version and I’ll attach appropriate references in the event you would like to follow it in more detail. This is a bit rambling as it is late and I’m tired but since I decided to answer your question here goes:

The background is that Roosevelt did not so much want war with Japan but wanted Germany to Declare War on the U.S. so that the U.S. could intervene in Europe on the side of Britain. Problem was that Roosevelt had campaigned on NOT getting the U.S. involved in “Europe’s Wars” and American Public Opinion was steadfast against getting involved. Roosevelt did seek to covertly provoke Germany into declaring war on the U.S.. Even with the heavy intervention by the U.S. in supplying Britain with War Materials Hitler was obstinately showing no signs of Declaring War on the U.S.. However, the Treaty of Mutual Assistance between Japan and Germany (The Axis) would require Hitler to Declare War on the U.S. if the U.S. entered into War with Japan. So, the line of reasoning is that Roosevelt provoked Japan into War in order to get into the European War.

The Roosevelt engineered it line of thought centers around what is known as the McCollum Memo. The McCollum memo was an 8 step plan proposed by LCDR Arthur McCollum of ONI to Navy Captains Walter Anderson and Dudley Knox Aides to FDR. Scans of the memo (declassified in 1994) can be found here:
http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/McCollum/index.html
Scroll down for an easier to read transcription of the memo.

The important point to consider is that Roosevelt implemented all 8 points driving Japan into a corner which then culminated in the very much known in advance “sneak attack” at Pearl Harbor.

Japan, an Island nation, is dependent upon outside sources for raw materials. A large part of the plan was to cut off Oil and Mineral supplies to Japan forcing them to seek other sources. Indonesia was one which they invaded to acquire access to Petroleum.

In order to apply pressure Roosevelt froze Japanese Assets in the U.S. and cut off Oil shipments. Japan felt they needed to remove the implied threat of the U.S. Fleet at Pearl Harbor. So, they did. One problem though - the U.S. had broken their codes and could have prevented the attack. Instead Roosevelt let it happen and then Hung Admirals Kimmel and Short out to dry as scapegoats.

Here’s a short piece written for Lew Rockwell.com in 2000 by Robert Stinnet Author of “Day of Deceit”.

http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/stinnett1.html

Here is a detailed Review of the Book on the same Web site: http://www.lewrockwell.com/orig/trask1.html

Here is a more detailed timeline excerpted from the book “Pearl Harbor Mother of All Conspiracies” by Mark Emerson Willey: http://www.whatreallyhappened.com/pearl/www.geocities.com/Pentagon/6315/pearl.html

Two Books:
Pearl Harbor Mother of All Conspiracies - Mark Emerson Willey
Publisher: Random House

Day of Deceit by Robert B. Stinnet

Diogenes - Some really stupid Pearl Harbor consiracy dork is trying to make you look dumbed down by posting in your name.

We know you're not a complete idiot and wouldn't really buy into that Pearl Harbor conspiracy bullshit. That's right up their with the denials that the Holocaust ever took place, and those who believe that OJ Simpson is innocent, or that Bill Clinton has an ounce of integrity.

So why aren't you happy.
You certainly have enough ignorance
to balance your sycophantic stupidity.

Read, review, cogitate. The data is what the data is not what we would have it be. Fairytales are for children. Fact is Roosevelt was not a very nice man who got into office beholden to the Mob and the Banking Cartels of the "Old Money East". He doublecrossed the Mob but nobody double crosses the Protestant Banking Mafia.

As is frequently the case when you can't refute the data you just start throwing Hand Grenades. Naval Officers shouldn't throw hand Grenades - the other side might pull the pin and throw them back.

OOOOOOh! CONSPIRACY THEORY! Oooooooh. Booga, booga, booga. Anyone who does not buy the party line and insists on looking at the actual data must be a kook.

If it is a Kooky "Conspiracy Theory" (that all purpose term used to shut off uncomfortable debates) why did Congress restore the good names of Kimmel and Short? Are they Conspiracy Kooks too?

I'm not sure I buy the Pearl Harbor engineering theory or not. I'm inclined not to, it seems fantastical, but I'm going to check it out.
I do, however, thank you for taking the time to answer my question.

I often wonder if, in real life, say at a Dodger game for instance, if we'd all have such strong disdain for those we scorn the most around here. I think not. Almost all of my close friends have utterly opposing views than me, but, somehow...

Just thinking.

I would have to say that my view of the world has been subject to an SRA over the last few years. (In case you are not familiar SRA is military slang for Severe Reality Adjustment - generally delivered by a VERY pissed off Non-Com.)

That the leadership of our Nation would so betray us was not an easy concept to swallow. It runs contrary to everything we are taught - and just as importantly everything we would like to believe.

Sadly it is like a can of worms - the more you dig into it the squirmier you get. However I am a realist - I do not discard something just because it disagrees with how I would like the world to be. So read, cogitate, and decide for yourself. The data is what the data is.

world order takes time...

I think they should snap their ankles slash their feet cut their legs to the knees with a knife but so they dont bleed to death break their knees with bats deprive them of sleep but not food try to make em talk if not break an arm piece by piece cut their face up with a knife if they still dont amputate ther arms amd ther legs and if they still dont cut ther balls off and slash ther throat and chunk em. Capiche

the best way for a nation to free itself is by revolution. Even if the us wins the war it will be a long time before any resolutions are made. Do you expect every single terrorist or al'queda member to throw up thier hands and quit the cause for which many of thier country men have fought and died for? When it comes to the american opinion about the middleeast it is either total assimilation are total annihalation

FUCK YOU AMERICAN PIG

Damn you Bush.
Cant you see that war does not solve anything. Try to think about all those lives you are killing if you are starting a war. I am against war. If u try to to find the weapons in Irak thats ok and to kill Saddam thats ok, but throwing a lot of bombs over some innocent people, i dont like that. Hope you think over it.

From Daniel

Damn you Bush.
Cant you see that war does not solve anything. Try to think about all those lives you are killing if you are starting a war. I am against war. If u try to to find the weapons in Irak thats ok and to kill Saddam thats ok, but throwing a lot of bombs over some innocent people, i dont like that. Hope you think over it.

From Daniel

http://www.controlled-demolition.com/
http://www.erichufschmid.net/WTC_PhysicsProblem.html
http://www.serendipity.li/wot/debris.htm
http://home.wanadoo.nl/schouwerwou/Diverse%20Info/diverse/controlled%20demolition.htm
http://www.serendipity.li/wtc.html

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/DailyNews/jointchiefs_010501.html
http://www.appollonia.net/copvcia/free/ww3/11_20_01_911murder_sect2.html
http://www.infowars.com/resources.html
http://www.cnn.com/TRANSCRIPTS/0201/08/ltm.05.html
http://www.corpwatch.org/issues/PID.jsp?articleid=1108
http://www.truthout.com/02.04A.Bush.Limit.911.htm

subversion

n 1: activity aimed at bringing about an overthrow of a legally constituted government [syn: subversive activity] 2: the act of overthrowing a legally constituted government

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

trea·son ( P ) Pronunciation Key (trzn)

n. Violation of allegiance toward one's country or sovereign, especially the betrayal of one's country by waging war against it or by consciously and purposely acting to aid its enemies.
A betrayal of trust or confidence.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

sab·o·tage ( P ) Pronunciation Key (sb-täzh)

n. Destruction of property or obstruction of normal operations, as by civilians or enemy agents in time of war.
Treacherous action to defeat or hinder a cause or an endeavor; deliberate subversion.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

dem·o·li·tion ( P ) Pronunciation Key (dm-lshn, dm-)

n. The act or process of wrecking or destroying, especially destruction by explosives.
demolitions Explosives, especially when designed or used as weapons.

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

Reichstag - large domed building in Berlin that was the home of the German Parliament. It was burnt down on 27th February, 1933 and later Marinus van der Lubbe, a Communist from Holland was executed for the crime.

_________________
"They that can give up essential liberty to obtain a little temporary
safety deserve neither liberty nor safety." -- Benjamin Franklin

http://abcnews.go.com/sections/us/HallsOfJustice/hallsofjustice.html

Wow
Viet Nam
Deja Vue
murder
wow

Wow
Movies=Reality
Easier than thinking
Wow

Moussilini, "Fascism should really be called corporatism, because it is the merging of the corporation and the state".

Have I mentioned how much I hate the Jews? Cause I do...

Have I mentioned how much I hate the Jews? Cause I do...

Have I mentioned how much I hate the Jews? Cause I do...

hATE IS NOT THE ANSWER. wE ARE NOT PUT ON EARTH TO JUDGE.

Please chill
Wow
with the anti semite
rants on echo
We all hate Jews
but it's our secret
here

The above spam has all the earmarks of that hatefilled little vermin shill using someone else's nick.

I recignize the words of that sneaky little -- Jew.

Of course it is. Notice that it started after I called out Traveler? One of his minions perhaps. There are telling
patterns. But they are weak. Last resort of a diseased mind. We are laughing.

Of course it is. Notice that it started after I called out Traveler? One of his minions perhaps. There are telling
patterns. But they are weak. Last resort of a diseased mind. We are laughing.

You are a fool. I am the USA.

you like the pretty pictures huh? they make all mushy inside. you sheep. do your homework and read.

if the future you'll expect the same or wors for us gi's

Fuck our troops, they do the bidding of an evil and amoral government. I hope they all die slow and painful deaths.

It looks like the psychotic shithead is back stealing names.

Wow! Doesn't it feel GREAT to be able to post your feelings about 'Sodamn Insane' on the web!? Everyone of us would've been persecuted and destroyed had we done this in Iraq.

I'm sure Saturday Night Live will have some Bush-slamming skits on their show this weekend, BECAUSE THEY CAN!!!! Whether we, as a nation,agree with them or not.

Here's an excerpt from a timesonline article...
"-See men shredded, then say you don't back war
-By Ann Clwyd
“There was a machine designed for shredding plastic. Men were dropped into it and we were again made to watch. Sometimes they went in head first and died quickly. Sometimes they went in feet first and died screaming. It was horrible. I saw 30 people die like this. Their remains would be placed in plastic bags and we were told they would be used as fish food . . . on one occasion, I saw Qusay [President Saddam Hussein’s youngest son] personally supervise these murders.”
This is one of the many witness statements that were taken by researchers from Indict — the organisation I chair — to provide evidence for legal cases against specific Iraqi individuals for war crimes, crimes against humanity and genocide. This account was taken in the past two weeks.
Another witness told us about practices of the security services towards women: 'Women were suspended by their hair as their families watched; men were forced to watch as their wives were raped . . . women were suspended by their legs while they were menstruating until their periods were over, a procedure designed to cause humiliation.'”
--
Do you have a wife? Do you have daughters?
--
I like the idea of liberating Iraq. They need to have the opportunity of freedom within their country and removing Hitler, oops, I meant Sadaam, is a good beginning.
--
If you're reading this, I congratulate you, you have freedom of speech.

--
How many of you protesters agree with the following la.indymedia posting:?

"are the terrorists really to blame? by Dan Frankel (soon to be al-quada) • Friday November 29, 2002 Frit 11:04 AM slipknotmaggotz@hotmail.com
death to america!"
--
Frankly Dan Frankel seems to feel that ALL americans should die. Hmmm. Perhaps even Susan Sarandon, Jessica Lange, The Ditzy Chicks? Probably so, they're WOMEN, they READ, they CELEBRITIES.
--
In our local news in we viewed many Iraqi refugees that stated, "protesters should NOT speak for the Iraqi people, you don't know what it's like in Iraq. What a horrible man Sadaam is. What Bush is doing is a GOOD thing."
"There are only 2 beings that can get rid of Sadaam in our country, God and George Bush, and I don't think God will be taking him anytime soon..."
etc.
--
GO USA!!!!!!!!!!

To American voice.
I'm actually going to begin making a reasonable argument here.

I would agree that America's system of government is the best in the world albeit not by a huge margin. I can tell you that from experience because I have lived in two different countries for good portions of my life.

On a different note.
Do you not think it is hypocritical and absurd that most war proponents condemn Saddam for his actions while they neglect to acknowledge the role that the US played in Iraqi history and Saddam's reign of terror?

It is textbook fact that the US provided Saddam with chemical and biological weapons during the 1980s in spite of his despicable human rights record. Even after the massacre of Kurds in 1988, the US continued to supply Saddam and offer support as well as friendship. By adopting this policy, the US effectively condoned, supported and, in essence, rewarded Saddam for his actions, all because they saw him as a convenient and useful "counterweight" to Iran's emergence as a regional power.

look at what "Mia P." - representing war advocates - wrote a few posts up:


"Well first of all, if you dumbasses even took a look at what americans are fighting for... FREEDOM. I think Americans are brave for not minding their own business and taking matters into their own hands. WOuld you just sit back and watch another country destroy itself by a dictator who executes his own family and friends and uses chemical weapons on his own people? Saddam only cares for himself, and thats where Americans come in. THey will not just sit back and watch people cry out and afraid for their lives, not from the u.s., but from their own fucking leader! thats why so many have surrendered and so many run up and hug and kiss american soldiers because they know that they are coming to "resuce" them and fight for their rights. So how are they dumbasses? if they got it, they should use it. We are a nation under God, and God would want world wide peace, but unfortunately, peace will not come that easily, so war is the answer. YOu keep talking about how we should leave Saddam alone, until he send biological weapons to your fucking country, will you step up and defend yourself? or ask the dumb ass americans to help you! we're not just doing this for ourselves, but for your dumbass too! God bless the u.s.a!


Please explain to me why only now, 16 years too late, Americans are condemning Saddam? Why did they not stand up to him 16 years ago? Why did they not protest America's support of such a brutal dictator? Why, now, do they refuse to condemn their own government for the human rights abuse that it sponsored during those years - the very human rights they are currently using to dehumanize Saddam?

In other words, how can war advocates claim to be fighting for liberty and justice while excusing the U.S. government for its past actions?

I would greatly appreciate any responses that address the facts of my argument.

sincerely,

The New X

To American voice.
I'm actually going to begin making a reasonable argument here.

I would agree that America's system of government is the best in the world albeit not by a huge margin. I can tell you that from experience because I have lived in two different countries for good portions of my life.

On a different note.
Do you not think it is hypocritical and absurd that most war proponents condemn Saddam for his actions while they neglect to acknowledge the role that the US played in Iraqi history and Saddam's reign of terror?

It is textbook fact that the US provided Saddam with chemical and biological weapons during the 1980s in spite of his despicable human rights record. Even after the massacre of Kurds in 1988, the US continued to supply Saddam and offer support as well as friendship. By adopting this policy, the US effectively condoned, supported and, in essence, rewarded Saddam for his actions, all because they saw him as a convenient and useful "counterweight" to Iran's emergence as a regional power.

look at what "Mia P." - representing war advocates - wrote a few posts up:


"Well first of all, if you dumbasses even took a look at what americans are fighting for... FREEDOM. I think Americans are brave for not minding their own business and taking matters into their own hands. WOuld you just sit back and watch another country destroy itself by a dictator who executes his own family and friends and uses chemical weapons on his own people? Saddam only cares for himself, and thats where Americans come in. THey will not just sit back and watch people cry out and afraid for their lives, not from the u.s., but from their own fucking leader! thats why so many have surrendered and so many run up and hug and kiss american soldiers because they know that they are coming to "resuce" them and fight for their rights. So how are they dumbasses? if they got it, they should use it. We are a nation under God, and God would want world wide peace, but unfortunately, peace will not come that easily, so war is the answer. YOu keep talking about how we should leave Saddam alone, until he send biological weapons to your fucking country, will you step up and defend yourself? or ask the dumb ass americans to help you! we're not just doing this for ourselves, but for your dumbass too! God bless the u.s.a!


Please explain to me why only now, 16 years too late, Americans are condemning Saddam? Why did they not stand up to him 16 years ago? Why did they not protest America's support of such a brutal dictator? Why, now, do they refuse to condemn their own government for the human rights abuse that it sponsored during those years - the very human rights they are currently using to dehumanize Saddam?

In other words, how can war advocates claim to be fighting for liberty and justice while excusing the U.S. government for its past actions?

I would greatly appreciate any responses that address the facts of my argument.

sincerely,

The New X

To American voice.
I'm actually going to begin making a reasonable argument here.

I would agree that America's system of government is the best in the world albeit not by a huge margin. I can tell you that from experience because I have lived in two different countries for good portions of my life.

On a different note.
Do you not think it is hypocritical and absurd that most war proponents condemn Saddam for his actions while they neglect to acknowledge the role that the US played in Iraqi history and Saddam's reign of terror?

It is textbook fact that the US provided Saddam with chemical and biological weapons during the 1980s in spite of his despicable human rights record. Even after the massacre of Kurds in 1988, the US continued to supply Saddam and offer support as well as friendship. By adopting this policy, the US effectively condoned, supported and, in essence, rewarded Saddam for his actions, all because they saw him as a convenient and useful "counterweight" to Iran's emergence as a regional power.

look at what "Mia P." - representing war advocates - wrote a few posts up:


"Well first of all, if you dumbasses even took a look at what americans are fighting for... FREEDOM. I think Americans are brave for not minding their own business and taking matters into their own hands. WOuld you just sit back and watch another country destroy itself by a dictator who executes his own family and friends and uses chemical weapons on his own people? Saddam only cares for himself, and thats where Americans come in. THey will not just sit back and watch people cry out and afraid for their lives, not from the u.s., but from their own fucking leader! thats why so many have surrendered and so many run up and hug and kiss american soldiers because they know that they are coming to "resuce" them and fight for their rights. So how are they dumbasses? if they got it, they should use it. We are a nation under God, and God would want world wide peace, but unfortunately, peace will not come that easily, so war is the answer. YOu keep talking about how we should leave Saddam alone, until he send biological weapons to your fucking country, will you step up and defend yourself? or ask the dumb ass americans to help you! we're not just doing this for ourselves, but for your dumbass too! God bless the u.s.a!


Please explain to me why only now, 16 years too late, Americans are condemning Saddam? Why did they not stand up to him 16 years ago? Why did they not protest America's support of such a brutal dictator? Why, now, do they refuse to condemn their own government for the human rights abuse that it sponsored during those years - the very human rights they are currently using to dehumanize Saddam?

In other words, how can war advocates claim to be fighting for liberty and justice while excusing the U.S. government for its past actions?

I would greatly appreciate any responses that address the facts of my argument.

sincerely,

The New X

What does Iraq have to do with 11/9/01?

What does Iraq have to do with 11/9/01?

Fuck off, poopyhead.

I'm a useful idiot with an ususually small penis. I will mock you all into submission.

Wow! You know how to copy and paste the same message over and over on multiple threads? I was never able to master that. It is beyond my mental capablilities. Wait a second. I'll get my third grade buddy to show me how. After that, I'll screw his tight little butthole.

I think most of you, are looking at the middleeast conflict, through the wrong eyes.

The Al Quadas, Iraqis...ect., are defending their home and their culture, from Those whom are trying to gencide them because the Islam or moslems, is out growing the christians, in vast numbers.

The christians, are afraid of The Moslems and their religious Islam. That Islam and The Moslem, will take over The United States and make Christianity obsolete !!!!

Therefore, are they trying to genocide The Moslem and destroy Islam.

Thank you,

YAHrah dahVAH, W.C.W.P.
salvation20@yahoo.com
04-01-03 Tues. 22:15GMT

You are wicked and will burn in hell for saying such a thing about Christianity!

and you know they aren't because?...

well hopefully a nice missle finds it way up your ass

Fuck off, you towelhead.

If we were only deposing a dictator, getting some oil, and freeing the Iraqi people, one could argue that it was for the greater good. But our track record with these things is never that simple. What is really going to happen is large corporations are going to get big contracts to build needless infrastructure projects that will have huge cost overruns. To pay for these overruns the "Free" Iraqi people are going to have to borrow from the IMF and World Bank to pay off government debt. The World Bank and IMF will lend them the money as long as they can meet hundreds of requirements. The key requirements will require the Iraqi people to sell off their infrastructure (water, power, and oil fields), to foreign companies, to pay for these programs. This will be done under the umbrella of Free Markets and Globalization. Those companies will gut the country and leave it as a shell of it's former self. Want proof? - Look what globalization has done for countries in South America, Africa and parts of the Far East.

hijos de puta

El fascismo no es sadam ni USA. Idiotas. Viva el fascismo

Burn in hell, you damn spic!

Burn in hell, you damn spic!

Well, it's easy to see why you are so negative. Your writing screams drug addiction and your words scream shoot me I'm an idiot. If in life you decide to calm your mind and wean yourself from your dependency, try reading some books by St. Francis de Sales or St. John of the Cross. Or are you afraid of finding out how weak you really are? Be a man. Learn.

Another example of bush's commitment to education.

Jeannine - Unfortunately there is a youngster on IMC who enjoys posing as me. He puts up short outrageous posts such as the ones above ("towelhead" and "blow-me"). His goal is to enrage people like yourself.

The other posts above those two in this thread do appear to be mine.

boy whoever wrote this needs to do america a favor and jump off of a cliff. if you want to be a bleeding liberal, please move to france.

Way to go, andy. Whenever we conservatives have nothing intelligent to say, we can always resort to the trusty "love it or leave it." It really helps to show what simpletons we are. It has served us well. Great job!

We are at war. This is war. They (Al-Qaeda) have already announced that they are at war with us and are ready to strike again. So take to your ears and keep your sights open. Because they do not think twice about killing in masses to spread their sick and twisted views. They would kill you without hesitation. Anyone who thinks like they is an enemy to all of us. They should be brought to justice if applicable or simply snuffed off the face of this planet. Stop wasting time at the prison camp, throw a tarp over them and gas them. God Bless those who stand up against these freaks. God Bless President George W. Bush for having the balls to stand up and “open up a can of whoop ass” on these pitiful pathetic monkeys. If I were Al-Qaeda I would run. I would not stop running because when we find you, and we will, you will never hear it coming. There were rules of engagement and a certain level of honor which was upheld in war (Geneva Convention) but Al-Qaeda has shown no sense of intelligence in this matter. So we will take to your level, we will kill your families, we will torture for information and we will do anything necessary to wipe your foul existence from history. Run Al-Qaeda . . . Run.

i have to say.. people are getting the whole picture out of view.. AL QUEDA are a group of people who want to kill for reasons that really dont make any sense to anyone who thinks straight.. Bush may not be the best leader in history..and has and will make mistakes..but lets look at the whole picture.. Al QUEDA need to be stopped.. like any criminals.. and all branches who are following..like those in indonesia and bali..
IRAQ has been a situation that really should have been fixed a long time ago...and even i now see ok..Sadam is out..now lets help the Iraqi's with all we can..
and as of comment of these pics.. from what i see they have and are being treated humanly and within UN conditions..the straps are so they are restrained just like a belt in a commercial plane..and i really dont see anythin wrong with this..
people.. all i can say is.. stop thinkin within the square.. lets think help people.. stop the evil thinkin..
do whats good.. and no evil.. rid the world of hatred..

and i am australian..and if it wasnt for bali.. we probably wouldnt have been affected personally to much with what terrorism is all about.. but we were targeted..for no reason.. and now even AL QUEDA targer us now..for standing up for our defence..

we all dont want hate.. i dont hate.. but we dont want terrorism and fear..and death.. but sometimes..u do really need to fight fire with fire..

but firstly.. im concerned mainly that iraqi people are looked after..medically and i think the debargo should go..as soon as can..

BUT i also ask.. WHERE THE HELL IS THE UN
they sit on their ars_e doin nuthing..

PEACE TO THE WORLD

I just want everyone to appreciate what these soldiers are doing for our country... Being married in the military is a rough life and these poor soldiers have to sacrifice there lives and leave there familys behind to defend our country... all i ask is for everyone to be thankful to be living in America... And to support them in every way possible.
God Bless America

"God Bless America"

In addition to God, what other fairy tales do you believe in? Santa Clause? The Easter bunny? The tooth fairy? You're nuttier than a Planter's peanut factory!

Those Iraqi WMD's are every bit as real as the Tooth Fairy!

May the American government burn in hell for there mistreatment of my fellow muslim brothers

They should just throw those sand niggers out the back of the plain.

Why don't you so-called patriots take a little time out of hating other pawns from other countries and learn some real history about your own country. Contemplate for a second that it could be true that the only reason we invade these other countries, is that they don't play ball with western multinational interests.
Here are some bits that every right-minded person should at least be aware of.

Every time you hear George Bush use the deaths of 9/11 as his justification for attacks on Afghanistan, remember he had planned his invasion months before….

In this article published in India well before 9/11, the Indian Government announces that it will support America’s PLANNED military incursion into Afghanistan.
http://www.indiareacts.com/archivefeatures/nat2.asp?recno=10∓ctg=policy

Once again, in an article dated March 2001, more confirmation that the USA has been planning an invasion of Afghanistan for some time. Janes is a publication for the military industry.
http://www.janes.com/security/international_security/news/jir/jir010315_1_n.shtml

‘President Bush was expected to sign detailed plans for a worldwide war against al-Qaida two days before Sept. 11’
http://stacks.msnbc.com/news/753359.asp?cp1=1

“A former Pakistani diplomat has told the BBC that the US was planning military action against Osama Bin Laden and the Taliban even before last week’s attacks.” BBC - Tuesday, 18 September 2001
http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/south_asia/1550366.stm

“Osama bin Laden and the Taliban received threats of possible American military strikes against them two months before the terrorist assaults on New York and Washington”
http://www.guardian.co.uk/Archive/Article/0,4273,4262511,00.html




Iraq and weapons of mass destruction.

How do we know that Iraq still has biological/chemical warfare capabilities? Because we still have the list of ingredients we sold to them. Check out this US Senate report published on the Gulf War Veteran Resource Pages.
“Records available from the supplier for the period from 1985 until the present show that during this time, pathogenic (meaning “disease producing”), toxigenic (meaning “poisonous”), and other biological research materials were exported to Iraq pursuant to application and licensing by the U.S. Department of Commerce”
“Included in the approved sales are the following biological materials
Bacillus Anthracis: anthrax is a disease-producing bacteria…
Clostridium Botulinum: A bacterial source of botulinum toxin…
Histoplasma Capsulatum: causes a disease superficially resembling tuberculosis that may cause pneumonia….
Clostridium Perfringens: a highly toxic bateria which causes gas gangrene…”
(The Riegle Report - United States Senate, 103d Congress, 2d Session May 25, 1994) http://www.gulfweb.org/bigdoc/report/r_1_2.html#exports
and…
“The shipments to Iraq went on even after Saddam Hussein ordered the gassing of the Kurdish town of Halabja, in which at least 5000 men, women and children died.” (http://www.sundayherald.com/27572)

Does this by any chance constitute supplying ‘terrorists’ or ‘rogue states’ with weapons? If not, could anybody explain why not. If it does…
stop for five minutes and think about it. Think about it when you hear any politician use the phrase ‘weapons of mass destruction’.

Beyond this, check out the history behind how the CIA and MI6 removed the popular government in Iran and installed the Shah, whose reign of terror and torture brought about the revolution that gave us their current government. This occurred because several decades ago the Anglo-Iranian oli company refused to give the government of Iran more than 10% of the revenue from the oil it was extracting and exporting from it's country. Nobody asked it to be there, but being a western company, it automatically had the right to do it. So when the country wanted it's resources back and was willing to compensate the company for it, the UK called in the USA to help with a little regime change.

It may be hard to stomach, but it happened and happens still...you're doing the bidding of big businessmen, lining their pockets, fighting their wars and killing other people much like yourselves around the world. But hey, that's alright...we've got MTV.
Freedom of speech? What is that worth, if we're conditioned to believe that anything controversial is the talk of terrorist sympathisers and commies.

From U.S., the ABC's of Jihad
Washington Post article

"In the twilight of the Cold War, the United States spent millions of dollars to supply Afghan schoolchildren with textbooks filled with violent images and militant Islamic teachings, part of covert attempts to spur resistance to the Soviet occupation.

The primers, which were filled with talk of jihad and featured drawings of guns, bullets, soldiers and mines, have served since then as the Afghan school system's core curriculum. Even the Taliban used the American-produced books, though the radical movement scratched out human faces in keeping with its strict fundamentalist code."

http://www.washingtonpost.com/ac2/wp-dyn/A5339-2002Mar22?language=printer

Kill, get killed, more, money, oil, money, us, we need.

Train a dog to bite and attack, and you have nobody to blame when your children get maimed. Get the dog put to sleep by the vet. Get another dog, do the same.

Get what you should expect. And as for any of you who may call yourselves Christians, if he does exist, you aint gonna be spending much time up there with him when the dog rips your head off.

these low life bastards should be drowned in their own shit

what the hell is this is this america we should not be treating pow"s this way we are supossed to be better then these men are un armed and in custudy they are gattherd in like cattle only in america can we complain and pass laws to protect animals this country is going back to the drk ages god help us all if we dont change this president and his out of touch cronys my question is why arent these pictures out on the main stream media......no wonder the europeons hate us we are such hippocrits

You know, I'd rather be cargo strapped in an aircraft taken to prison than jumping out of a burning tower to my death. The only time I care what European countries think, is when they get their countries bombed and taken from them as history has proven, and they need to cry for our help. I ignore them now, but when they are getting their teeth kicked in, I'll be happy to save them. I AM AN AMERICAN! That's what we do!

>these low life bastards should be drowned in their own shit<
We used this as one of many methods to break down a prisoner.

You could never beat electricity though; got to love those field telephones.

No resolve will come with more brutality, innocent people are being victimized - what exactly does this solve?

How do you even know they are guilty? how can you make statements and assumptions like that when it comes to human life?

I am glad to see our boys and gals taking care of business over in Iraq. The Arab nations should be scared of what America will do if another 9/11 happens. They are getting what they deserve and I hope that other nations take notice. If they insist on raising their children to hate america and the free world and to reward suicide bombers and their families with money, it serves them right that we will be in their face until this terrorism is stopped.

These people were not maltreated. They lived under the fear of death with Saddam. This was a walk in the park compared to what they would recieve from Saddam.

America is the only nation around that can keep this world in check. All the other pussy nations like Spain pack your bags and let the real boys clean house. I cannot believe that Spain let terrorist win in their elections. France would be speaking German if it wasn't for America and so would all of Europe.

Like it or not, America is the only nation that can make a difference when it comes to making real change in the world. We have the money, manpower, skill, dedication, commitment, technology, and military to make things happen.

I'm sure this idiot abouve me would have a different opinion if it was American soldiers being treated that way.
Are you condemning an ENTIRE NATION for the actions of a few. the majority of persons in Iraqi jails were held without being charged with any crime.
You accept TORTURE being used as a means of getting someone to talk?
Maybe we should use this in the United states to get accused murderers to talk.
This sounds like a person defending the Salem witch trials.
What an idiot, but then again thats what you get from the American neo fascist conservative right.
No, they dont like the Geneva convention.
No , they dont like the bill of rights, esp, no cruel and unusual punishment.
WHAT THE FUCK TO YOU THINK WE ARE OVER THERE FOR?

Liberate the Iraqis?
by torture?

Find WMD's?
by invasion.

get rid of Saddam?
by bombing innocent people?

This guy is so stupid that he dosent even know that Iraq and saddam had no connection whatsoever to 9-11.

Typical.

Don't forget the Declaration of Helsinki, while you're at it.

error

My creatures!! Be aware of The day when your mouth would be shut up but your limbs will be witness of your action.......

Dear sir or madam,

there are enough would-be-gods on a global power trip without you pissing in the pot.

force subsumes culpability for methods..?

Serves them right! First class for criminals used to flying on the back of a camel.

If you weren't such a lot of murderous assholes, your Islamic brothers wouldn't be tied up like the animals they have become. Plus, Haji, maybe ya better start thinking about where you are going to hide your sorry ass when the people of this country have had enough of your Muslim bullshit and start hunting you guys down like we do woodchucks, rats, and other vermin. Your Islam will not prevail, sorry Haji!

IF THEY WHAT TO ME ALLA WHY NOT ABILGE THEM, I AM SURE THE RELATIVES OF THOSE KILLED OR WOUNED BY THESE PRISONERS OF WAR WOULD NOT HAVE ANY TROUBLE HELPING THEM ACHIEVE THEIR AIM

They don't diserve better!

Nuke'm all!

A old friend who fought the genicide in Chad (Africa) told me once that when your enemy acts like a human being you treat him like one but when he acts like an amimal you treat him the way he acts.
We who sit in our comfy little chairs in the USA, and have never met the enemy on a kill or be killed basis cannot voice any opinion about what should be done.
Before you comment get out there and do it.
...........

j.o: "....at least were not strapping electrical devices to their private parts and shocking them to death like Bin Laden and Saddam Hussain use to do"

"Before you comment get out there and do it. "

Do what, torture someone?

Encountering prisoners locked in a cell is not a "kill or be killed" situation...

Your rationalizations are flaccid.

>>A old friend who fought the genicide in Chad (Africa) told me once that when your enemy acts like a human being you treat him like one but when he acts like an amimal you treat him the way he acts.
____
How about these animals? Or did you just mean the ones who have gotten lost of mass media exposure? There's also the issue of the Reagan administration supporting these monsters; the Iran-Contra scandal was just the tip of the iceberg.

I hate to break it to you, but the "heroes" are just as bad sometimes. Do you believe in equal opportunity justice, or that we should just punish the "brown people" who get caught in the act?

Before you pigeonhole Iraqis as the paragons of brutality, please take a look at the dregs of your own government.
_____
source:
http://www.geocities.com/~virtualtruth/soaclose.htm

"While the SOA Torture Manuals have been withdrawn [my note: thanks to a Clinton administration investigation of the SOA's methods], major elements of their content have not been repudiated by the School of the Americas.

Continuing elements of the curriculum, particularly counterinsurgency, with its focus on psychological warfare, terror by paramilitary organizations, and identification of civilians as enemies based on their political views, are consistent with continued atrocities.

From 1982 until 1991 when the Pentagon began an internal review, the School of the Americas used 7 U. S. Army intelligence training manuals which advocated executions, torture, blackmail and other forms of coercion, including the kidnaping of a target's family members. Robert Parry, "Lost History: 'Project X' and School of Assassins. The Consortium for Alternative Journalism

The School of the Americas and the U. S. Army's Southern Command used instruction materials in training Latin American officers that "appeared to condone practices...such as executions of guerrilas, extortion, physical abuse, coercion, and false imprisonment"

The concept of counterinsurgency itself, which is a core element of the School of the Americas curriculum, intrinsically requires human rights abuses.

Counterinsurgency theory contains the elements essential for atrocities: targeting of persons based on ideology rather than membership in an armed force; targeting internal destablization rather than external aggression; terror as a means of social control; total war concept in which lines of civilian and military are blurred; and destruction of property of suspected enemies as a legitimized tactic, which, since days of March on Georgia, troops misunderstand as permitting attacks on persons as well."

"----You answered your own question. In the 1980s, iranians were the ones shouting "Death to America!" therefore we supported saddam. In the 90s, saddam thumbed his nose at the world, threatening global stability. Oops! Bye bye, asshole. ----lefties only look for the bad in America and find it. ----the problem, therefore, is yours."

In the 1950s, the Iranians were saying (well, many of them) "we want to control our own oil, have the money fund modernization, and have a western-style democracy." So they elected Mossadegh.

Well, the UK and US oil interests were more interested in controlling the oil profits, as well as the government, which could have become friendly with the USSR, so, the CIA, in its first coup, overthrew Mossadegh, and installed Reza Pahlavi, a dictator-monarch friendly to America.

After a couple decades of being screwed over and ripped off by the Shah, the people had a revolution and installed a dictatorial theocracy. They hated America. Why? Because we installed a dictator in Iran who ripped the people off. Islam seemed to provide a way out, and, frankly, it delivered the goods, some of them at least. The westerners were ejected, national dignity was restored, a dictatorial theocracy took power, and all the liberals, Jews, and communists fled for their lives. (Sounds like Pat Robertson's wet dream.)

The problem, as always, was we were thinking with our wallets instead of our heads. The likelyhood of Iran falling into the Soviet sphere of influence was low, because they had their own resources, and were undertaking socialist reforms themselves. (Look at India, another socialist country. They retained their independence.)

Instead, the imposition of a US-friendly dictator enervated the secular public sphere, and strengthened theology, setting the stage not only for the Iranian Revolution, but the current mess we're in today.

It's called blowback.

I'm just a kentucky boy who will shoot whoever our commander and chief orders me to =u)

Am I going to hell?

Chad
United States Army

You know what those little Mahhameds are trying to kill us so when I here all of this bullcrap like oh that is cruel it ticks me off. You want to see something cruel watch the tape of al-quada beheading that guy or go see some of the Iraqi people that were in Suddams prisons. I mean come on people taking pictures of Iraqi and al-quada prisoners like thats wrong but it's really not even close to what they deserve.

We all know about the freakin stupid arrogant mistakes alot of countries made.(All countries in the wars today and the wars through out history ) I've been reading alot of posts here and all were arguments that you would see on television. They arguments that go back and forth that never cease. Stop thinking and arguing about who started what or it was bad to go to war ect. ect. Instead, try to think of ideas on how to solve the problems we face. Try to solve these problems in non-violent way but peaceful ways. If all these countries would just stop and listen to the yells of pain a soldier makes when he is mortaly wounded or the cries of a child knowing they would never see some one in their alive family ever again. If the world was just to stop and think..... We would not have so problems in the world today.

all the sugar cane, or oil in the world is not worth this war.
return home, fight the war against the killing in your land, feed your hungry, educate your future genaration, better yet, give back the land to the indians you killed to call it home.

I WISH SOME ONE WILL GET OFF THEIR ASSES AND GO KICK THE BASTARD HEADS IN THE IS DOING THIS TO THE AMERICAN PEOPLE. IF I COULD DO SOMETHING I WOULD GO OVER THERE AND DO IT MYSELF. PLEASE SOME DO SOMETHING SOON. GOD BLESS AMERICA AND GOD BLESS OUT TROOPS.

I cant belive that Americans call themselves "FREEDOM LOVERS"
they know NOTHING about freedom, all they know is how to achive their own selfish goals with NO regard to others.
Americans are greedy and ignorent and the whole damn world knows it.

I cant belive that Americans call themselves "FREEDOM LOVERS"
they know NOTHING about freedom, all they know is how to achive their own selfish goals with NO regard to others.
Americans are greedy and ignorent and the whole damn world knows it.

thats hog wash it aint yur ass on the line buddy.and who wants to fight in iraq..i will tell you no americans
we were bush wacked in to service by a whole bunch of hype gung ho do fer yur country bullshit i tell you this none of thier kids will ever come home in a body bag ...

Uncle Scam:
Cowardly Killers Hide Behind Him!!!

Stop welfare to the terror state of israel!

You need to see this.
A review of what the ideology of inhumanity is all about.
It seems the same ideology and excuses that allowed that to happen is working here.
http://video.google.com/videoplay?docid=4270802583485738558

concentration camps.

If Saddam killed that much and shown that much cruelty Imagine how far were bush.Bcos of his cruelty laks dead, tortured still he is live. kill him also. if ur country were democratic and with truth.BULLSHIT.FUKIN EGO.