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yup.

Come on now..

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Not one logical nor rational word came out of this mans mouth. He thrives on talking shit.

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LAPD ending the drums.

Hail to the Thief!

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This event, while showing opposition was salty as hell. It made clear the poverty of the idea of protest. All the reformists and infiltrating vanguardists (ala International Socialist Organization, Sparticus League, etc) accomplished was making a few people honk ASS early in the morning on a saturday who were driving by. They chanted half-heartedly "No more bush... blah blah blah" as they stood by complacently as the slanderer-in-cheif rolled right into the building to continue his campaign of world domination. It was "successful" in making those that wanted to claim superiority through "self sacrifice" happy that they "did something". Police were making blatantly illegal moves (such as blocking the intersection to cross, and stopping drumming and chanting) while some no-spined individuals wouldn't even stand up by pacifist means, much less taking any real action to stop the fascist leader from continuing on his scheming. All in all, it was a laughable experience and there was even a right-wing lunatic who was desperately trying to counter the demo. Good for a laugh, but not much else. Maybe next time, eh LA?
I hope these are not the same people that claim to be in the same movement and have the same "Spirit of Seattle". If this is the case, then it's time to throw in the towel, as this is a hollow shell of what we are actually capable of.

Against protest, against hierarchy..
Direct action gets the goods.

The Burned Stickybun

Dear Burned Stinky Bun,

You are just jealous you weren't there.

Go on get burned and more stinky and lose you credibitly at the same time. Maybe you will get rid of your negative behaviour that way. I hope for you you will.

It is great these people came out! A good thing!!!

Anton

Dear Stickybuns --

Way to go, asshole. Target the people who are actually trying to do something, anything, for a special dose of your ire. That's effective. Instead of lambasting the very Creep that appeared there, you choose to go after the people who showed up to protest his ass. This makes you a particularly corrosive kind of dumb fuck, because your divisive comments aren't going to win people over -- they're only going to make people who did show up on a Saturday morning to protest the commander-in-thief think two things:

1. You're an asshole.
2. Why did I bother?

And when you need the safety of numbers to provide a buffer zone while you dart in to do the dirty work, you'll find it isn't there, because you told them all to fuck off, and they did.

Dumb fuck: you need to realize that these people are TRYING to do something, ANYTHING, and that's way better than the vast majority of bubbleheads hypnotized by their TVs. They are on your side. If you are unable to show them any appreciation, then don't bother calling 'em for bail money. They'll let you rot.

It's time to make a broad coalition, and realize that not everybody's ready to go smashing windows with you. They may be someday, someday soon even. But you need to recognize allies when you see 'em. And now that I'm done berating you for your short-sightedness, I hope you won't take it too personally and wake up. If you want to build a movement, you need to accept all the help you can get.

Are you ready for that? Or do you just want to be a "rebel," even against the people who can help? You decide.

i recognize that guy . ...... he's one of the media whores. he's got tons of dough.

can you be more vague?

You wanted people to beat up the cops?

Because you know playing loud music is against the law even in your own home if it distracts your neighbors...so maybe you should go after that law and change it yourself before blaming people for stopping the drumming...

WHy didn't you do something about the cops restricting the people from moving across a PUBLIC highway or telling them to stop drumming?

Hi there. I'm glad that you've responded, but let's be serious here: nothing is immune to criticism (and that includes myself), especially not tactics and people's attitudes towards them. The point of my post is to bring about (although from a highly critical point of view) the awareness of the ineffectiveness of complacent protest. I'm sure if you've been keeping up, you've seen what's gone down in Portland. Here's where I see the flaws of this protest (and I was in attendance, and also aimed some of my criticism at people who did exactly what you accuse me of... i.e. shortsidedness): that the protest did not embrace a diversity of action, it was soon made irrelevant (although it was refreshing to see people coming out, and people honking in support) for the most part.

I suppose that it would be in order to elaborate -why- (it became irrelevant and ineffective):
- No one there accepts Bush or his policies as legitimate, so why put social pressure on him through protest (which still accepts the system, albeit causing stress to get their way as allowed THROUGH the same system that perpetuates the problem at hand) against wars and poverty when it is THE SAME REGIME that is the root of it. It's like complaining to a tiger to please only eat veggies and not the children in the village that it is attacking.

I respect a diversity of tactics, and that means chanting from the street, all forms of pacifism, peacful civil disobedience, and more direct action. When there is no attempt to respect a combination of these tactics, then it becomes one-sided and ineffective.

There is a time and place for everything, be it just chanting or civil disobedience, and the actions of the police through stopping the crosswalk were illegal and should have been a huge point for disobedience (by simply walking across in numbers). The complacent didn't take this into account and thus rendered the cops power even stronger as those that chose to just stand around let them run all over them by restricting movement from their brothers and sisters on the other side of the street.

Maybe this clarifies what I was saying in my earlier post for you.

Against all heirarchy.

The Lovely Mr. Burned up Stickybunz -- what whaaat!

I did do something about the situation by sitting in the middle of the street (ala peaceful disobedience) when I was soon overwhelmed by police and forced back onto the curb due to the lack of solidarity on behalf of some of the people. I'm personally disgusted by a person who tries to bring war mongering and the perpetuation of despair to my city. As far as changing laws, I don't accept this system or its laws. And as far as being with the media, I can assure you the only media I concern myself with is open and indy media.

Instead of being so jittery about disobedience, why not open a dialog about it (it seems that LA needs more of this)? It'd be great to hear an open dialog on KPFK about this, because it desperately needs to be addressed here.

Keep in mind that I'm not saying strictly one tactic over another, but that there is a time and place for all kinds of tactics. While it would be questionable for a few people to involve others in action that would put them at a level of risk that they don't want to partake in, it would at the same time be questionable for a group of people to create a monopoly of passive/obedient tactics.

Keep the shit open, and it will thrive.

Solidarity to the brothers and sisters in Portland.

Burned Stickybun

I think that perhaps if there had been a bigger crowd (which perhaps there would have been had it been later in the day) there would have been more people taking the actions you describe. However, it does seem that LA lacks the more "hardcore" element that's willing to do these things.

There does need to be more communication, too. I was standing a little way down on Westwood and wasn't aware of anyone trying to encourage people to walk across the taped-off crosswalks, informing people that it was illegal of the cops to prevent us from crossing, or anything like that. Had a group started walking, I would have joined - but I'm not and don't pretend to be much of a leader. I'm also a non-citizen and don't want to go out of my way to get arrested in today's climate.

I think the youth of LA have to drop most of the older generation of activists here and start to do things on their own. The tired water-wheel of liberalism and newspaper sales produces nothing but spectacular dissent. I agree with stickybun and completely sympathize with his frustration. Further, let's face it, LA's radical community is in most cases way behind the radical actions of the people of LA. Let's change that.

-Sk!

I agree with stickybun. It's time to drop the liberal reformist politics and start to get crackin. Enough with recognizing the authority of another who's out to kill you. It's time to radicalize this movement. As Malcolm X said, "we are non-violent with those who are non-violent with us, however we are not non-violent with those who are violent with us".

arm the poor

- BLACK STAR LIBERATION!

Sk!, I completely agree with you. I'm absolutely tired of standing in their shadow as they pull somelast minute protests without once having the respect to contact the youth and sit down and have a real dialogue. When they do, they always try to talk about how they've been at it so many years and trying to dictate what 'works' to us. What I'm saying is this: if there is to be a dialogue, the old lefties have to look past their own fucking noses and accept a diversity of tactics. We're not trying to tell you how to show your dissent, so don;t try to tell us. Fuck authoritarian tendencies. If people can't treat each other in an equal manner, then I refuse to respect their hegemony of passive "tactics".
Let me clarify that I don't put one set of tactics over another unless it is clear that something is to be done besides just chanting against whatever.

There was a man with a megaphone and when I asked him to address the crowd, he replied to me that he would soon, but for now he was going to try to get his mug in the media's spectacular lies.

By playing the role of co-opted dissent, he (and others with the same attitude) completely fucked over the people there!! The people on the other side weren't even aware, much less the people who were in the rear on the side that the police were making illegal moves!

To make things worse, the old, reformist contingents turn their heads at civil disobedience of ANY form even when it's called for! I sat in the middle of the street peacefully and people were watching intently from the sidelines awaiting my arrest.

Protest, or actor in a confused display of spectacular dissent? We all know the answer. They chatter among their tea parties about solidarity, but when it comes to it, they sit and wait to be shocked at the arrest of a person who does act up. Afterwards, they'll have even more substance for their constant blabbering (and not much else).

La Chota, La Communista, La misme porqueria!

To the person who wasn't a US citizen: this is exactly what I mean. We have to be able to choose our level of involvement without one part dominating the other. Meanwhile, the rest of us ungovernables are still sticking to the shadow of the reformists.

YA BASTA!

For the destruction of spectacles and the breaking through of real, lived experience outside of dead time,

Burned Stickybunz

Solidarity to those who keep their minds open!

I was at the protest in Dana Point on Friday and I also attended the on on Saturday in LA. The one in Dana Point I would say was pretty successful. IT was very peaceful and I felt safe behind my bandana and hoodie. Although most people were not masked, a few were and we stuck together chanting things at cars and having political conversations with other protesters about their cause. We danced and flicked off Republicans. It was great fun.
SATURDAY: That was pitiful. 4 of us woke up at 5:30 to drive to La for the 7:00 am protest. I'm sad to say we were the only one's in masks. No other kids from OC, or San Diego showed up. It didn't even seem like the people who lived in LA cared. Again, because we were wearing masks we drew a lot of attention and the cops targeted my 3 friends and I. They pulled up in a car next to us and hopped out. They stopped us on our way up to the protest to ask why we were wearing masks. We told them we didn't want to be photographed. They continued to question us and we asked if we were being detained. They replied "no", so we walked away, ( I learned this on sat... and any of you future protesters should do it too. You don't have to talk to cops if you don't want to). The protest was tense for me even though my face and body were hidden. Next 4 cop cars pulled up to the corner we were standing on. The Sherriff came up to me when I was on the corner of wilshire holding my sign and asked me what I planned to do today. I told him I planned on holding my sign in protest. He asked if I was going to follow the laws. I nodded my head but he proceeded to get a verbal answer. That asshole. " Is that yes?" he asked firmly. I finally shouted "yes!"... Though I could have said nothing. BUt I had this feeling that if I hadn't he would have continued his harassment. That protest was a little scary, but if there had been more of us, we could have gotton together. I was very surprised, that with all the police brutality in LA, that there were so few of us there. 7 am or not, fighting a cause has its tolls. All in all, I'd say the protest on Friday was better. MOre effective at least.

If the goal of the event was to raise the image of protest to the media, it was affective. The NYTimes onlines headline was essentially "bush goes west for fundraisers, protests."

I ask this more then rhetorically, what are we looking for from a protest other then a mediated image?

lolo: to answer your question, "What is the purpose of protest," I suggest you read Michael Albert of Z magazine. He says, "The purpose of protest, and activism generally, is to raise the cost to social elites of continuing their destructive course of action." The purpose is NOT to create spectacles for the consumption of corporate media, except in so far as doing so is helpful to the larger goal (which is only rarely and to a limited extent). The costs to social elites of continuing their repressive policies can be raised when a protest, by achieving some tangible results, however modest, encourages more and more people to become involved. If the trajectory of protest is in the direction of larger and larger, more and more militant, this can present real obstacles and raise real costs for the elites that they will have to actually take into consideration. It will also exacerbate existing divisions within those elites. If they lose nerve or back down as a result, such a tangible victory can also have the effect of energizing more people. If you want a recipe for failure in the protest business, the best ingredient for it is grovelling obedience to authority. That is the perfect way to ensure demoralization of citizens and a dead end. This is the rut we're now stuck in.

Perhaps another of my problems is that I don't even know other people who are in to going to protests - if I actually felt I was part of a group, I would be much more likely to engage in more direct action. I think you're right about the general temperament of LA liberals, since at the events I've attended no one has discussed more radical actions. If you don't go as part of a group, how do you find the people in the crowd who are interested in more direct action?

A suggestion for next time would be to bring a megaphone of your own. You might find there are more radicals in the crowd that you think. At least, I hope you will.

To the person in the mask. I was there and without a mask and when I asked one of your group if any more comrades were coming, she replied "I wouldn't consider myself a comrade." At which point, I turned and walked away. How about some solidarity? Aside from that, to address the problem of finding people involved in direct action at protest... I think this misses the point. We have to organize our own contingents to carry out strategic direct actions and disobedience. It's time to call a congress. What do you think (yes/no)? I'm not asking to discuss anything more than that on the internet, so don't get too paranoid.

solidarity

Stickybunz

I agree. But if all we do is discuss it on the internet, there'll still be the problem of coming together as a group "in real life." But for what it's worth, I'll look out for anyone sitting in the road at any future protests!

I agree with you stickybun about a radical conrgess --but how does that work, do you call a congress before each protest? and on another subject, G.W.was in Santa Ana on friday & i didn't hear a god dammed thing about that--that's a city in need of some serious radical action. Solidarity

exellent idea.

A loss angeles radical congress trying to get together a diversity of radicals to better work together and agree on some basic points.

This man is/was a guest on Howard Stern. He ran against Green Denise Munro Robb in the special election for L.A. City Council on 9-11...scary.

Hello!I only wanted to say that HIERONYMOUS is right and you should little think about it.What excactly do you want?

Everything is in the very early stages. To Maja, why don't you finish reading the rest of the posts before you go off and denouncing people. I clarified a bunch of widely felt criticisms within the los angeles anti-authoritarian and anarchist circles.

A message to all the different lone-people out there:

start organizing your local affinity groups and get everything straightened out between you. There will be a congress held in private, and announced the night of the event. More to follow soon.

Long live the revolution.
Eastside, westside, join the angry side!

We're the man or woman sitting next to you..... remember us?

Solidarity.

Burned Stickybunz

What if you don't have an affinity group?