I want to preface this by saying that I greatly respect the work that LA indymedia has done and I value their contribution to this area of the world. I've worked a little bit with IMC though more with Killradio, but I think that the people behind LA indymedia and those who have enjoyed its services in the past really need to stop and think about where this project is going. Despite the massive participation we saw in the streets during D2k, LA indymedia has shriveled into a near-catatonic state. What was once a free media for all on the left quickly became ghettoized into radical gangs conflicting with each other (greens vs. greens, anarchists vs. communists etc.). Frequent site-stoppages and "waiting for technology/orders" from the central sites has broken continuity and faith in the site among those who once read it. LA indymedia has been most successful on the street and when organizing/participating in events such as Democracy When, Life and Debt and many other mobilizations. But often these street stories don't even make it onto the website or are quite delayed. Independent media should function as a self-replicating virus that empowers people and gives them opportunities. I'm not sure if I can say LA indy fulfills this function. It seems to be primarily a lack of staff or volunteers and also perhaps a concentration of technological knowledge. This really seems to be dragging the site down. I just can't stand being able to predict who and what I will see on the newswire, LA is a vast city of people who have the power to empower this network . Yet I feel like LA indy outreach focuses on already-active left groups (or at least that's what the results are showing). Perhaps the city just isn't wired enough to take advantage of LA indymedia. The internet is still new to a lot of people, is this part of the problem? I realize that I am a part of indymedia because I use and understand the newswire. We are all indymedia, definitely. And yet, if our indymedia is unreliable, we are just atomized again. Let's fight atomization, ghettoization and reclaim this amazing independent media potential.

-Sk!

Recent decisions that favored ghetto-ization (supposedly ant-sectarian) and techno-savyness are really becoming a big drag.

I'm not understanding what that comment is referring to.



I'll withhold comment about Sk's comment, but I don't disagree.

Yeah, we're badly in need of self-critique. And while there are some cool, ongoing individual projects (Community Voices comes to mind) I agree, the project is largely stalled...

The reliability issue has been huge. We've probably lost much of our community over the last months, it's been a disaster.

But it looks like we've turned the corner on that, the old code was a huge impediment, a real bubble gum and tape job, and the new code thats just been implemented should be a much more stable, more reliable foundation for the project.

So it's time to rebuild. To many of us, it seems the best solution for doing that is figuring out how to engage new folks who would like to participate in LA-IMC. We need new blood. We get a couple of new volunteer queries every week, but we have little structure around how to engage that interest. There's a meeting tonight to discuss this concern. I don't know the address, but someone should post it...

Also, the prospect of Kill Radio and IMC sharing a space might attract a new energy. The best outcome I can imagine is a bunch of radical youth jumping in and taking this amazing media opportunity to the next level.

I really hope we can figure out how to engage a younger, more diverse crew. If we do, IndyMedia will thrive again.

Yeah, we're badly in need of self-critique. And while there are some cool, ongoing individual projects (Community Voices comes to mind) I agree, the project is largely stalled...

The reliability issue has been huge. We've probably lost much of our community over the last months, it's been a disaster.

But it looks like we've turned the corner on that, the old code was a huge impediment, a real bubble gum and tape job, and the new code thats just been implemented should be a much more stable, more reliable foundation for the project.

So it's time to rebuild. To many of us, it seems the best solution for doing that is figuring out how to engage new folks who would like to participate in LA-IMC. We need new blood. We get a couple of new volunteer queries every week, but we have little structure around how to engage that interest. There's a meeting tonight to discuss this concern. I don't know the address, but someone should post it...

Also, the prospect of Kill Radio and IMC sharing a space might attract a new energy. The best outcome I can imagine is a bunch of radical youth jumping in and taking this amazing media opportunity to the next level.

I really hope we can figure out how to engage a younger, more diverse crew. If we do, IndyMedia will thrive again.

indymedia LA may be in a lull/rough spot the past few months, but sometimes that's a good thing in order to progress. the people who have worked so hard to keep it going deserve a great deal of thanks and encouragement and appreciation. even with the lull, I still count on indymedia as a source of information about my community, and I am thankful that it's here. there will always be things to improve about it. with regard to the problems with internet etc., as the Community Voices project has demonstrated, going outside the internet context might be a way for indymedia to be more successful in reaching more people and to avoid these kinds of lulls. for example, print-based information, while more expensive than the internet, is something to think about in addressing concerns of accessibility and feelings of techno-savvy exclusion.

i think la indymedia rocks. yes, we could all do more. yes, the website has been down a lot.. but look at all the cool stuff that is going on - la imc set up a one-stop publishing system for events that goes straight to the la imc calendar, the actionla listserve, and change-links newspaper; there's the community voices project; and collaboration on events like life and debt and democracy when?

yes, it would be nice to broaden the participation in la indymedia. comparing it to the height of the d2k convergence is not fair. we'll need to work on it., use it, and promote it.

faramarz

I havent been involved with indymedia, but I feel it is a good source for activist and those on the left.

I have one criticism , The people who need to know there is not an alternative media are not able to view this great site.

Not everyone can afford to have a copmputer or they lack the skills to use one. We should provide those skills and outlets for that education and resources.When we empower our communitys with knowledge it is the most revolutionary acts we can engage ourselfs in.

Alot of us forget we have a privelage to sit here and read and respond to comments here.

I think if there was an independant newspaer which covers all news not just things relevant to activist there would be alot more support behind it.

I noticed lots of groups need spaces and want to open up community centers and spaces for activist but these same groups dont get together to help one another acheive those goals, why not have multimuple groups share space to better utilize resources.

i could be wrong but one thing i have noticed within activist groups they forget far too often who they are trying to reach out to.

Erica

Sk!, you are really saying anything specific and it seems that you have a bone to pick...and i also think i know who you are. and if i am right, you haven't been to one meeting...and if you have...not in a very long time. so, instead of complaining from UCLA, why don't you come over and participate?

000

While I certainly agree that the maddening technical difficulties have hampered our web page continuity in the past months, let's keep in mind that the newswire has kept operating thourought these interruptions, and people keep contributing on a daily basis & on a variety of local & global subjects.

Also, the newswire remains one of the few sources for quick access for news and comment we cannot get at any other source. Examples: the labor situation in the harbor, the protests vs FBI & Taco Bell, and community events like Sol Fest & Trans Unity are on the newswire, though blacked out or misrepresented in the corporate media.

Even KPFK has limited accessibility as only one subject at a time can be discussed on the air, and one cannot just get on the air whenever they need. They can, however, always post on our newswire, 24-7.

Hopefully the technical problems are behind us, the center column will run uninterrupted, and we will restore our beautiful banner.

We met tonight, and will again in the general meeting July 6 on how to get the many volunteers who continue to e-mail us each week active in Indy Media so that we can grow.

Let's not let temporary set-backs, no matter how frustrating, discourage us, as the continuing posts on our newswire are evidence that we continue to be needed.

000>>

I'm not trying to hide my identity, I use my typical post name. I don't have a bone to pick, with who or what? The site, to the extent that I participate in it, has not been functional, I think it's reasonable to speak up. I held my tongue for awhile on this. I'm not going to go into the details of why I can't work with la.indy, I do what I can for societal progression, I'm not even a very responsible member of killradio so I doubt I could stretch myself to work with la.indy. Lastly, I wasn't complaining, I was criticizing. We're all open to that and if some people take it personally, then it's probably a result of strong hearts in the project rather than stubborn defensiveness.

-Sk!

I dunno .. this new software on the LA IMC site is really icky .. I like the older interface much better. it felt more friendly and easy to work with .. I also liked the traditional news wire interface it had and displaying all comments at the bottom instead of just links to the subjects.. The old interface felt more like .. LOS ANGELES .. this new interface feels more like.. eh. I dunno. Feels less welcoming.

You claim you weren't complaining, but "criticizing." I think you need to learn how to provide constructive criticism instead of providing a public rant on an open newswire about an organization you are not even involved with! Your "criticism" falls on deaf ears due to the fact that you have almost no idea what you are talking about...you don't provide a specific critique, but a general rant on your alleged perception of the LA IMC.

If you really care about it, then why don't you try writing to those involved giving some specifics about what your "criticism" actually is. Why not say, "i don't like this, why don't you try something like this." But you don't do this. you simply throw out alleged problems having to do with technology or whatever. It's very typical of sectarian nonsense for people to throw out broad generalizations and critiques without ever actually lifting a finger to get involved. so basically SK, your criticism doesn't mean shit because you have no clue what you are talking about.

000

000 (If that IS your real name),

>

Are people who participate in the newswire not involved in IMC?

>

I'm not reading LA indymedia daily with a clipboard in hand marking off errors like a driving test guy. If you have problems with what I wrote, why not provide a "specific critique" of my "inspecific critique" instead of a general "kill the man who questions"?

>

That's exactly what I did. I talked to J Kawakami about these problems and he acknowledged some of them. He seemed to indicate that a lot of the technological issues were on his shoulders. The key thing you're misunderstanding is that my post was not TO the LA IMC collective, it was to EVERYONE who uses IMC. The part about technology and updates of course applies to the IMC, but much of the critique is intended for people who use and have access to IMC. We have to bring people into this network who haven't "joined up" at the ideological counter yet. IMC has the most potential as a demonstrative institution instead of a mere propaganda counter.


000>>

Now I'm sectarian? Interesting. I am involved with IMC, I use, post and comment to the newswire. I can't be involved with the collective because I don't have the time, if you consider my critique worthless because of that, then it's worthless and let's move on.

-Sk!

Just because you post to the newswire does not make you a member of the collective. the newswire is an open forum for anyone, based upon Open Publishing, but that doesn't mean that the IMC collective won't remove postings based upon their Editorial Policy.

Let's start from the beginning. the title of your post is "the sad state of LA indymedia." based upon this title, i wouldn't suggest you call your criticism constructive. It is a cheap shot.

Let's continue with your comment, "What was once a free media for all on the left quickly became ghettoized into radical gangs conflicting with each other (greens vs. greens, anarchists vs. communists etc.). Frequent site-stoppages and "waiting for technology/orders" from the central sites has broken continuity and faith in the site among those who once read it."

Ok, really? Have you even READ the Open Publishing document? It allows for dissension. This is the core of open communications. You don't seem to understand this. Next, you refer to "waiting for technology/orders" and site stoppages as the reason for your ilk to lose faith in the site. So, what are you saying? If LA IMC doesn't have the efficiency of a corporate ISP, then they are lapsing in their responsibilities? It is my understanding that regenerationtv has hosted the site for free for over 3 years with exceptional support until very recently and only for a short time. This doesn't make any sense.

Continuing, you say, "And yet, if our indymedia is unreliable, we are just atomized again." IMC is a volunteer organization, not a for profit company with stock options and salaries. Are you expecting customer service for "your" indymedia? What the fuck are you saying? All volunteer organizations struggle with resources and volunteer issues. Criticizing IMC frivolously as you did doesn't promote any sense of solidarity, only division.

000

>

Of course! I never claimed it made me a part of the collective. It makes me a part of LA indymedia.

>

Yes, if you did not read the criticism and JUST read the title, I suppose it could look like a cheap shot. But it clearly wasn't. You're looking for conflict where there isn't any.


Ok, really? Have you even READ the Open Publishing document? It allows for dissension. This is the core of open communications. You don't seem to understand this.>>

Um, you're missing my point (as usual). I'm not objecting to the arguments of communists vs. anarchists. I'm simply saying that those arguments go on ad nauseaum and ghettoize the site into a radical foodfight. People who aren't necessarily affililated with one gang or the other come onto the site and get disenchanted and confused. I'm not objecting to the presence of communists, greens or anarchists, I just think that it's obvious that there's a whole lot more going on in this city beside their squabbling. For the most part the collective has done a good job of covering non-sectarian events and occurances, it's mainly an issue of outreach and newswire folks.

>

"I WANT MY IMC!!!" Christ, I'm not asking for efficiency, just dependability FROM the collective. My criticism is a criticism towards an ideal, which I don't expect volunteers to meet.

>

So from your logic, I'm just supposed to sit back and check la indy every once in awhile to see if it works, if it does, then hey, post away! Tell my friends! And if it goes down, and regular folks who only had a passing interest in the site to begin with start looking elsewhere for their news, too bad, I can't say anything, because they're volunteers! There is a division of labor in societal change, and nobody can be everywhere at once, I want an indymedia I can depend on and for the most part LA indy does that! But my criticisms are aimed at making it more dependable and accessible to the average joe. Indymedia is supposed to be an institution that grows and influences, even if it is staffed by volunteers. Institutions have to be dependable if they are to be of any influence on a society that tosses aside anything that doesn't work. Of course all volunteer orgs have problems and delays, but that doesn't absolve them from criticism (yes, constructive criticism). I'm baffled as to why you're still barking at me.

-Sk!

Im barking at you because your annoying. get involved or shut the fuck up.

000

I think Sk! raises some important points about the growth and potential atrophication of IndyMedia LA, points which needed to be made but who wants to start a media activist war or hurt people's feelings...not me. His comments, however, do seem to make me want to reinvolve myself with the collective..or the coalition...or the alternative media...or whatever it may be signified as lately by the namers or names.

It also should be recognized that Los Angeles itself seems to lurch forward into American and world consciousness from time to time, the last being, IMHO, the Gore Fest of Double Ought. How LA IndyMedia works or does not work the next time independent media really needs to be accessed by the larger world community outside of LA will be a test that sets us or breaks us, not intelligent dissent and communication within LA Indymedia.

Maybe we really scared the globalist scum from showing up here in LA for their meetings and claques, but we will no doubt have other opportunities. Attending endless policy meetings (and watching people bait and stab each other) though makes me want to disappear.

One things for sure about this new design. The font type needs to be much larger!! Sorry, some of us don't have large monitors!`

Great points sk!

000, your beurocratize reminds me of the one good thing the shining path (and those other moaists) said about lamp-posts.

Seriously, I think we all should be mature enough to deal with criticism- including the LA-IMC collective.

Are the old links ever going to work? None of the videos are working since the switch to the new design.

Also, the 2 hour upload time limit is going to prevent me from uploading anymore videos here. [ I connect at 26k, nothing goes up under 2 hours : ( ]

Hopefully I'm entitled to raise these issues, after all I haven't attended a meeting or volunteered time in the office. I live an hour+ from the office (in NO traffic) and I'm usually too busy with editing or action to attend meetings.

We all have something to contribute here. For some, that's going to meetings, for some staffing the office, some have a different call. As long as you're participating somehow ...to me... you're a part of the IMC.

I am not affiliated directly with ANY organizations. I am me, Independent. I thought that's what this place was suppose to be about.

I'm a member of the core group of IMCers, and am largely responsible for the tech (working and no). Sko did talk to me about these criticisms, and I encouraged him to post it to the newswire. They were pretty painful to read, but mainly because of his blunt writing style; it wasn't that harsh hearing it in person. I was elated to see the responses from some of the folks who attend the IMC meetings. I think, as a group, we're able to handle criticism, and by and large took Sk's post as intended.

000 - I appreciate your enthusiasm and energy and for "siding" with IMC, but don't like your tone of voice. Saying "get involved or shut the fuck up" is not right, at many levels. Tempers flared, and I hope folks are calm now.

(By the way, IMC has been paying for RegenerationTV's services for around a year now, at around market rate for server space. Thanks to everyone who's donated, and who went to our fundraiser... because that's how we're paying for it.)

And, to Flux - thanks for the detailed comments. I agree with you and others about participation - all levels of participation are vital, and IMC LA doesn't legitimately exist without reader-activists like you. The old URLs, and video, are on the list of things to fix. I personally apologize for these technical problems (and any bug finding help is appreciated) but, please bear with us. As major issues are fixed, they'll be posted to the imc-la mail list.

The core group's focus right now is on a HUGE weakness within the IMC -- involving more volunteers into the group, and distributing responsiblity/power for the project more evenly. We hope that, over the next few months, the IMC LA morphs into something that's more open to direct participation by more people, and then, perhaps, these criticisms will develop internally and can be addressed before they affect the activist community at large.

(A note to all "intellectual" persons who write like Sk! reading this: you are blunt. Writing and talking that way can hurt people's feelings and generally turn people off. If you're reading this paragraph and thinking "if you can't take the heat, get out of the kitchen"... you likely suffer from insensitive bluntness -- a condition common with analytical males who enjoy email, write tirades, and self publish pamphlets. If it's too hot in the kitchen, you turn the oven down, maybe make a salad or gazpacho. If you've got to burn something, try to save it for the next demo and direct the heat at injustice.)

Fair enough.