LOS ANGELES, JAN 23 2002 - Heavily armed with high-powered machine guns, shot guns, and hand guns, the FBI, Secret Service, and Los Angeles Police Department sorounded the founder of raisethefist.com in his house. The founder was currently asleep, woken up by a relative who said fbi, police and undercover's were currently up and down all of the streets, with they're eyes focused on the premises. Raisethefist.com founder aproached the door were 2 FBI agents demanded that he step outside. Within seconds a swarm of FBI raided the house with automatic weapons and shot guns. Additional police and fbi also stayed on the front lawn, around the house with a door baracade and additional weapons. "armed and ready".

FBI and secret service entered the house, seizing all servers and political liturature. Raisethefist.com was currently being ran within the founders room of the house, over a computer network. The room was literarly ransacked, and all equipment, disks, cd's .. etc. were boxed up, loaded into a truck and seized until further notice.

Since 1999, raisethefist.com has been under extensive government monitering. At times, Raisethefist.com has recieved over 100 hits from the U.S Department of Defense in a single day. The FBI, police department, NSA (and who else) continuesly monitered the site on a daily basis. Even government's from the UK, Canada, Lavtia, Belgium, Egypt, Finland, and Australia monitered the site continuesly. The FBI had also previously intercepted all packets going through the DSL line hosting the site, and have seized additional accounts being used by the site.

In yet another successfull attempt to silence our vioces, Raisethefist.com, an anarchist/activist independent media/collective has been shut down by the secret service.

"It's not yet known at this point if the site will be back up. As of now, we have nothing. No more servers, no more network, nothing. My room remains completly ransacked. My neighbors remain shaken up by what happend. I most likely won't be getting any of the equipment back. They also took alot of my political litature. Apparently, they're excuse for shutting it down was the 'militancy' portrayed on the site. This is not true. This was an excuse. This same 'militancy' they were concerned about is portrayed on at least a thousand other web sites across the internet, and they havn't been touched by the federal government, with the exception for remote monitering. Raisethefist.com was progresive. It was going somewhere. Kids started creating clubs in their schools called 'RaisetheFist'. People started utilizing the collective as a powerful resource for the activist/anarchist community. The federal government has been investigating me, and the site very closely, long before 9-11, and long before such militancy was even portrayed on the site. They knew the site had potential, that it was turning into something more than a site, but a strong collective utilized by activists throughout the world committed to social justice. And that's become a crime. Justice has become a crime. Freedom has become a crime. Anyone activly disagreeing with policies of the U.S is now automaticly rendered a "terrorist" in the eyes of national security.... Where raisethefist.com will go from here, I don't know. Based on what i've been told, i'll most likely be in jail, so most of my focus will be towards getting an attorney."

this must be stopped!

This is an article that well details Sherman's most recent harassment. What it lacks, however, is any detail of either his past harassment, or how we can assist in his current problems.

This case is one that will shock the right and left. It is a Libertarian Socialist having his basic property rights infringed. We must spread this story, along with his past victimization. We must bring this to the attention of leftists and civil libertarians throughout America, if not the world.

Write to ACLU, to the LAPD, to anyone you think can help. Organize protests. March. Make it heard that this assault on the right to dissent is unnacceptable.

It seemed that the webmaster cas collecting photos of undercover feds. They probably didn't like that.

http://rockymountain.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=1568&group=webcast

It doesn't matter if they like it or not, they still didn't have any right to do what they did. I can't say I like your comment. Does that give me the right to come confiscate your hard drive?

This is what amerikkka and it's capitalism is all about.

We need a SOLIDARITY strategy and NOT strictly defensive, the cops have to be in a defensive position for this
ridiculous and fascist crackdown. They have to defend themselves and be surrounded by questions and accusations.

But without a large solidarity indymedia will be the next, and many others...

can anyone give me info on this brave man? Is there anybody out there that can tell me if he is currently in custody or if there is anything more that can be done? I am interested in fighting this cowardly act. Will anyone out there that knows anything more at all post or email me? I will post cartoons about this and I would like as much info as possible. I am also willing to demonstrate and volunteer. Please help with info anybody.
solidarity

If anyone knows what the current status is or has links to other media reports that would be very useful. Meanwhile anyone that knows anything should consult with anti first _before_ shovelling out info about him. Pigs have large ears as we all know.

i'm not sure if he's in custody or not. i talked to him last night and he was going to leave town today. but i haven't heard from him so i'm not sure. but everyone should really try to organized some protests whereever you are. what happened was ridiculous.
solidarity forever!

i talk to him, he was going to spend a few nights at a friends house in los angeles. he's currently not in custody at this moment.

I want to say that I am shocked, but this country has a great history of repression. I mean, we can look to what happened to Craig during the time that he was a spokesperson for the ELF. He lost his bakery even. They have been coming down hard on opposition.

I want to send my love out to Sherman, and I hope that we will all lend our support to him in any way that we can. He is a dedicated soldier for the Social Revolution, and now, more than ever, is the time for us to wake up!

The Los Angeles Anarchist Black Cross is part of the Anarchist Black Cross Federation, and we will be definitely doing all that we can to support Sherman, and raise funds for his legal cases. He also has (to the best of my knowledge) a trial for the May Day Fiasco that happend in Long Beach just last year.

Ruckus recently recieved three years for the May Day demonstration and he has our support as well. I want to see a movement of mutual aid strengthen and grow for these people. Preparation is also neccessary for any future arrests and terror imposed by the state and their thugs. Lets throw together meetings, workshops, and committees.

LA needs to get it's shit together.

I am sure more information will be posted shortly on this circumstance. It would be wise to start putting aside any possible money so that we can donate to his case.
Benefit shows, fundraisers, anything...

Lets show these fuckers that they are not going to break us.
Build it!

LA-Anarchist Black Cross Federation
Austin Delgadillo

I've been outa the loop for two days, and I gotta ask; what's happenning? I've know Sherman for a coupla years now, and this bullshit doesn't cut it.

I'm in NZ, so I can't help organise anything in person, but..

So, what marches are organized? Anyone got any idea about legal support? Anything...

We must all strike at once. The MOuRNING STAR FIGHT CLUB has been recommending that nationwide all groups should act together on the same date, so that we can be heard. The media has shut out all non-compliant voices. We are recommending the period January 31st through February 5th to be a time of intense activity, which will coincide with the World Economic Forum Protests in NYC.

The Secret Service, or SS as we refer to them, seem to epitomize the tyrannical fascism gripping America. A member of the MSFC was incarcerated and abused the SS and the Veterans Administration police in West Los Angeles at the VA Westwood Medical Center.

Evidently the government in Los Angeles has taken the Joseph Stalin idiom, "Gratitude is a disease of dogs", because they are even turning against innocent disabled veterans. You can read about it at
http://www.angelfire.com/trek/msfcalca/MSFC%20Attacked.htm

The PROTEST MOVEMENT needs to move at once. A thousand small hammers striking at once can tear down walls. Whereas individually out of synchronization their efforts are of minimal impact.

January 31st to February 5th is the next movement. If that is too soon, visit protest.net for the next significant date.

Best of Luck. Los Angeles is a fascists dream, as the courts are corrupt and the lawmen are vindictive and corrupt as well.

Its really great they shut you down! I hope the keep up the good work and shut you people down for good!

We have to get this story out. There has to be something illegal about what they did. I would incourage all of you to send the story to the ACLU. And to find the LA chapter and send them a letter about it. PLEASE! Email every Civil Liberties sight you can with the story. We must do something about this!!!

I was waiting for the day to come in which raise the fist would be shut down. The site was filled with lies and brainwashing people to hate America. I hope the founder of the site gets punished for doing what he did!

Is there a more complete archive available. I looked at the archive pointed to on the home page and thre is no link off from that page. Looks like its just a snapshot of the front page. Also google cache is coming up with nothing.
Im way bummed.

S.

The site was nothing but Anti-American BS.
The ACLU will be of no help to you, they are too busy
protecting terrorist right now, sorry.

Discraceful example of censorship. Puts the America right in there with other dictatorships that suppress freedom of speech.

I'll tell you one thing - the suppression of ideas only makes me more interested in discovering what those ideas are that so frighten our government.

Some of the previous comments on here are bothering. I am not writing to respond with misdirected anger neccessarily, but I want to ask a question.

What does anti-american mean to you?

I mean, as an Anarchist, I am not against the working class of this country. I am not for terrorism whatsoever (as this would be incompatible with my morals, ethics and principles as a Social Revolutionary). I am an anti-authoritarian because I love humanity, and I have faith that we can make the decisions over our lives for ourselves.

Raise The Fist, was a resource for people interested in alternative news, just as we come to indymedia, or to A-infos, and so fourth.

I am not supportive of this country, nor its legacy as a white supremacist, imperialist monster. But I guess all of us who respond to posts on this site do not share the same disgust for the policies of this empire; for the history of our genocide not only against the world's people, but even within the borders of this nation.

Something that is anti-american, which also holds the principles of self-determination and non-hierarchical relationships/communities, is definitely a step in the right direction.

What is Amerikkkan ideology?

...Economic development regardless of the cost to human beings; a few advancing at the expense of everyone else, and all whites advancing on the backs of blacks and other people's of color.

Raise The Fist recognized the imbalances of power in this country. Raise The Fist provided information alternative to what we are being force-fed through corporate medias and history.

And can't you even wake up enough to see that this country's terrorist agencies are there to crush any opposition to the totalitarianism of this empire. It loops around.

Sherman was providing information that threatened the reputation and existence of thier lawless power.
Freedom of speech? Democracy?

Fascism? I think so.

It is sad to see posts on here that deliberatly work to disregard Sherman and what has happened to him. He needs the world's support. Anyone who is targeted for thier political work or activities that are in the direction of justice and self-determination for all people, needs the world's support.

If you are not against the American Empire, then you are either misdirected or sociopathic.

I don't know how to get in touch with the webmaster (obviously, an email wouldn't do much good right now), but he should get in touch with the ACLU, and also the Electronic Frontiers Foundation. The EFF was formed in response to the infamous secret service raid of Steve Jackson Games (http://www.sjgames.com/SS/).

The webmaster's contact info is on the main page of raisethefist.com

commrades im in canada, what can i do to help? im willing to organize stuff here, if there are any fellow comrades in southern ontario that would like to help please contakt me

Having lived in two Third World countries one expects this type of storm-trooper action. Despite 9-11 we need to have the voice of differing opinions and ideas. I had never imagined that the government would decline to that seen in the communist Third World I lived in during the early 1980's (Grenada) where you were deported for any type of anti-government statements or at least jailed and beaten, if you were lucky. Whether one is of the left or right this action is a warning that no one is secure. We have much to do to restore this country.

For me this proves that this government is a farce. This government is full of hypocrisy. I've printed out the report of shermans arrest and attempt to let this be known on my campus. I dont know what i can do. It all seems too big. When are they gonna come for all of us ?

Peace

i knew that the government was involved with many things that i would consider wrong,but i would never have beleived until now that things are as bad as they really are.all i can say is this is a real eye opener and that i will use this action in future discussions.

I called the FBI yesterday in order to find some answers-- I guess I wanted to hear their side of the story. Unfortunately, since it was a Sunday, they were not working properly (hmm... because the world shuts down on Sunday). Anyways, I’m calling them back today. My advice-- talk to local newspapers (for those of you that live in Seattle, try Seattle weekly, The stranger, and other public newspapers). Oh, and by the way, RTF, if there is anything I can do, respond and let me know.
No matter what was on this site, there was no reason to break the most fundamental law in the Bill of Rights.
I think Thomas Jefferson (remember that guy, FBI?) said it best in the Declaration of Independence: “Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [i.e., securing inherent and inalienable rights, with powers derived from the consent of the governed], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness."
This is not close to being over.
~AG

This is a big example of how freedom of speach and beleif is only your right as long as it's what they want you to believe... seince this site was opening minds to to see what the U$A government is realy up to, it was shut down... Terrorism? The FBI acted as terroists in this situation.

Hey Austin please explain to me. How a WHITE guy like me who grew up on the streets and struggled to graduate and move on in life all the while being harassed by so called black friends that I was sell out for not wanting to hang out and smoke weed and drink 40's all day and talk hoe this and hoe that. Heck I am 20 g's in debt because of schooling and have been living on my own since I was 14 years old working crappy fast food jobs just to support myself. Explain, How do I benefit from the backs of blacks in anyway? The majority of them don't even work and blame whitey for all their short comings. Just because they live in a Ghetto doesn't mean it has to be a Ghetto. I don't see whiteboys going down their streets spray painting them and trashing them. They do it themselves. 99% of the guys I hung out with were lazy and didn't want to do anything to better themselves and knocked up 4 different girls. One thing that cracks me up is they talked about player haters and they are the biggest bunch themselves whenever one crab gets out of the bucket the rest try pulling him down. Alot of whiteboys are the same way. But there is one thing I can't stand is piss ants like you who throw the damn race card all them time. I can't stand you bleeding heart liberals.

I'm a Marxist, so I wasn't a frequent visitor, but I share your pain. I was disgusted to learn that things have reached a point that the State must resort to this to defend its decaying capitalist system. My solidarity is with you!

Well, i am not surprised that that U.$. government blatently infringed on the so called rights that humans have. I am surprised that it took them so long after 9/11. This society which i have the displeasure of living in is simply pathetic. Where are CommieKiller, and Dr. Fuck A Chuck now. Those spineless bastards had nothing better to do than infringe on the RTF website and spread their right wing propaganda bullshit. Fuck you. This is just the beginning Comrades. Fight we will! hang in there RTF. They are to stupid to get us all, we number too many.

I called back the FBI today, reguarding the subject matter that was portayed on the Website, RAISE THE FIST.COM. The nice FBI gentleman there told me that it having this Website was like yelling "Fire" in a crowded room-- it causes too much panic. This website, as the FBI agent told me, had directions on how to make bombs and other such weaponry-- and due to the "patriot act" passed by congress, is illeagal. Apparantly, it doesnt seem to matter if we have the freedom of speech, or not-- now if we post directions on how to make any kind of weaponry on the internet, we are considered criminals...
Apparently, this law was pased by congress-- kudos to those who sent letters in protest to thier congress members-- My guess would be that the FBI was waiting for a law like this to be passed so they could pounce on RTF and others.
I am scared, as all who are posting on this site should be... before the conversation was started i was asked where i live. Somethig else to think about-- who do you really think controls raisethefist.com at the moment-- i am sure it is not the fouder of RTF.com or any others involved. My guess would be that the FBI is controlling it as we speak and they are probably looking at all the people who are posting here and laughing. However, i have done nothing wrong, and im sure that many who post here or on the former raisethefist.com

im sure that many who post here or on raisethefist.com, have done nothing wrong either. I will protest, and i urge you to as well-- but do it peaceably. Change can come, but it has to come oin the right way.
Until then, see ya.
~AG

America is a nation which is based on lies about its past and its future. In the 1800's the notion of justice was overruled by the rich for the ability to be pioneers making a home land for themselves and making american larger. Yet how many times is the bad side of expanding americas frontiers been mentioned i.e the killing of the american indian and the destruction of the environment. This is ignored and glossed over with how much courage the pioneers had to live in such lands. Since then the americans psychic is based on a form colonisation and conquests as a form of success.However, this conquest has included the american public.

In the fifties america demonised the communist movement as being un american. People were arested and placed on show trials. The american public turn on itself and started reporting the movements of other american citzens. T%he nation based on liberity became insane instituion with claims and counter claims of how american these people were.In the 70s Nixon attempted to create a nexus between the welfare state and capitalism. He demonised the poor which was created by his policy of undermining education, healthcare and welfare. The wealthy only had to give donations as a posed to paying taxes, The american public turn on itself > the lower middle class took the money while the have nots became poor and homeless.However, americas elite wanted again to conquer other nations this was done by changing from keynesian economics to right wing economics. Today, America is trying to conquer afghanistan because of its oil and become a dictatorship like the nazis to its people. This arrest is example of the behaviour of bush and others to achieve their goals. This web side was shut down because its easy to follow the lies than understand the true of the path america and most G8 nations are taking. It will lead to one day the american people having to face the facts what america has really done
Stalin

Wasnt he the one that beat the crapp out of that woman in Philly and them claiming that he didnt harm her and that woman was working for the police when she was in fact a member of Faulkner´s family?! A guy that beats womans shouldnt even be born let alone be out on the streets. Leftist lies once again... Fry Ruckus, fry Mumia, justice for Daniel F.

Common guys,that site was filled of over hyped stuff, lies and hate. It wasnt much of a loss. Besides from the lies i seen on that site, who can tell me that the owners simply wanted to end that site and did this story so they can finish as another "victims of the government bla bla bla bla". Besides there was stuff in there inciting to violence and that is illegal, and no Man is above the law.

YOU PEOPLE NEED TO GET A LIFE. THE GOVERNMENT ISNT INVADING AFGHANISTAN FOR OIL, ITS BECAUSE THEY WERE HARBORING PEOPLE WHO LIKE TO FLY PLANES FULL OF PEOPLE INTO CROWDED BUILDINGS. THE FBI SHUT DOWN THE RTF WEBSITE BECAUSE IT WAS SHOWING HOW TO KILL PEOPLE AND THEN TELLING PEOPLE TO DO IT. YOU LOSERS NEED TO FUCKING GET REAL AND STOP PRETENDING THAT THERE IS SOME CONSPIRACY, AND START DOING SOMETHING PRODUCTIVE WITH YOUR TIME. YOU ARE WASTING YOUR DAMN LIVES. IF YOU DON'T LIKE AMERICA, GO SOMEWHERE ELSE AND STOP BREATHING OUT AIR YOU COMMUNIST BASTARDS, MOVE TO FUCKING CUBA OR SOMETHING.

Thank you sane, for that intelligent retort-- its people like you that make me want to forget all the things America does to 3rd world countries, the homeless, and protesters. And thank you, but I think I'll stay here-- because the principals that this country were founded upon includes that the governed can make changes to those that govern them.
I’m not an anarchist-- I just want some major changes, as do many others.
~AG

If you don't like us steping up to our rights then move america the fuck back to europe. You are telling us we have no right to defend ourselves.

I really really hate it when ignorant people post in ALL caps.

Okay, Sane. The overall fact of the matter is, it's NO conspiricy. All the details surrounding the present Afghanistan situation has been confirmed by Pakistani and no longer active US officials. It's no myth, it's no big mystery, it's the hardcore, down to the earth, TRUTH. You, my friend, are just too stupid to realize this. You have no idea how your system works nor it's past actions, aside from what they jammed into your head about 'checks and balances' and the world wars. Wake up kid, you're checks and balances system has been completly decimated since the 'state of emergency' acts passed several years ago. Everything you think you have is false.

The system is outdated and must be replaced...

A Marxist

First off, to 'counterrevolutionary'...

Are we talking about the same Ruckus ...Robert Middaughn?
Many people can take on the name 'Ruckus' although, this does not mean that this is the particular Ruckus that we are supporting.

If in fact he did beat up a woman, then I would have a concern over this. But the Ruckus that we support, was arrested at May Day 2001 in Long Beach, California - not Pittsburgh! And as far as frying Mumia, your comment is BULLSHIT! I think many of us here would agree.

Free Mumia, and all other class war political prisoners and prisoners of war!

And to the person who made the post "To Austin"...

What are some of the core points of "liberalism"?
For me, having a race analysis, does this mean that I am a Liberal? Because I have decided to make a criticism, does this mean that I am a Liberal? As far as I understand, Liberalism is largely silence in the face of crucial issues.

I apologise if the definition I gave about "...whites advancing on the backs of blacks and other peoples of color" offended you. There is also a class issue with America. And I do not doubt that working class whites are in similar positions of being oppressed and attacked for being born into poverty.

At the same time, do you not recognize the imbalances that exist, and have always existed here in this country? What is privilege? Who has privilege? What exploits privilege?
Do you believe that white supremacy is not an aspect of this empire? Do you believe that male supremacy is not an aspect of this world? What is Patriarchy? What is Racism? Who lives in the 'posh' middle/upper class neighborhoods?
...largely ...white people!

I am not one who favors supremacy of any kind. But I find it amazing that people can overlook the fact that white privilege exists and is exploited. The same goes for us men, viewing sexism as a women's issue. There are power imbalances between classes, genders and races. I don't see how this can be denied.

Bleeding hearts bother you? Well, if my heart bleeds because of injustice, genocide, authoritarianism, and war against working class people, than i guess i am what you call me. I will not apologise for being angry, frightened, outraged, saddenned... etc...

When i wrote about 'Amerikkkan ideology' that was a definition derived from the BLA Political Dictionary. An ideology is an intention as well. Your intent may not be to fuck people over to survive, and I support the fact that you want to become more responsible and get your shit together. I am in a similar position.

But for one to be a white supremacist, one would have that intention. If you do not, if you battle white supremacy in all it's manifestations than Amerikkkan ideology wouldn't apply to you neccessarily.

Who was this country founded by? How were things built, and who were the laborers? Who built this empire, and under what rule?

I ask questions because it is up to each and everyone of us to either collectively or individually study history up to the present. And it might be key to look to different versions of history. Look to the perspectives of the working class, of the people who were directly oppressed by this monster. What is between the lines?

White privilege is still White Supremacy. It is a manifestation. One does not have to have swastica tattoos and shaved heads to be a white supremacist. When growing up in a status, we might obliviously exploit our privileges and it is important to recognize these issues, if we want a Social Revolution.

And on another issue. What happens to principles if one is surrounded by catastrophe. Social Injustice and Poverty has an affect on the way we live as human beings. Yet, I have faith in humanity, and it takes encouragement and support for one another to raise our spirits and our health. To be self determined and responsible. But this empire does not want people of color to be self-determined, nor working class whites, nor women. "For if this happens more and more, we might govern ourselves. And think, how scary this would be."

The ideology of repression needs to be confronted and taken out by any means neccessary. Sherman did this through media and education. His persistance is our persistance. Along with Ruckus and every other targetted revolutionary/activist. Even people trying to gain back their lives and support thier families. These are all inspirations, whether you claim 'Anarchist' or not.

A social Revolution, in my vision, will be about transformation. It will be the encouragement of free spirits. It will be the responsibility we have to each other as a society. It will be self-determination and self-government. It will be mutual aid. It will be socialism free of authoritarianism.

I propose, that if anyone wants to continue in discussion with me about these issues, contact my email. This message forum is about Sherman and how we can support him. I would suggest that it stays this way, unless others disagree, but that is on them.

I am not wise. I make mistakes, and I am not about division neccessarily. Criticisms and Self-Criticisms are key! I encourage others to criticize me constructively, as i will continue to do so within myself. If we are about principles that mean human justice and freedom, then criticisms will be made out of love for one another. We are all students and teachers.

My prayers to Sherman.
Long Live Social Anarchism!

Austin Delgadillo
Los Angeles Anarchist Black Cross Federation

Latest updates on story here--

Overall summary of SWAT raid on RaiseTheFist
http://nyc.indymedia.org/front.php3?article_id=17137&group=webcast

RaiseTheFist's Webmaster Speaks Out On LA Indymedia
http://la.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=14555

What the FBI Doesn't Want You to See at RaiseTheFist.com
http://www-2.cs.cmu.edu/~dst/raisethefist/

Past discussion board archives support reports of "close" monitoring of the RaiseTheFist web site by the FBI, DOD, and other government agencies nearly 4 weeks prior to raid.
http://www.network54.com/Hide/Forum/thread?forumid=126208&messageid=1008233437&lp=1009731969

HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH


That's funny. I would have not let them in. Fuck em. Make them bust in the house.

1st amend....blah, blah.

Use spellcheck please.

Man -- learn how to spell and use correct grammar, moron.

He was hacking websites, installing .cgi scripts, etc., and generally screwing with other people's & organizations servers, causing damage to other organizations' servers & interrupting their service. He deserved it.

The shit about under the patriot act about bomb instruction etc won't stick under the 1st amendment, but you can bet the site-cracking and DoS attacks will.

I don't think that Americans, or people in general can make up their mind about everything. Yes people can make up their minds about things such as beliefs, and everyday life situations, however as far as making laws, and solving difficult conflicts, people will never be able to agree. This site, and others like it are perfect examples of this, in that you disagree with many people's belief that the government is an acceptable solution; albeit poorly structured, wasteful and corrupt. Just stop and think about everything you are saying. No government because people can make up their own minds? Wait a minute....I just made up my mind to take something from someone. But you made up your mind too that you are gonna stop me by any means neccessary. Now this provides for bad people to do bad things with perhaps rash and unfair consequences or on the flip side, no consequences at all. The only way that anarchy could ever work is if everyone was a good person. I hate to break it to you folks, but there are lots of bad people in the world. There are lots of people who need mental help in order to remain stable in their lives but who don't know this and thus end up hurting people without knowing better. I understand that this is a heinous injustice to this young man's right to say things the way he believes. And I also realize that this situation was handled extremely poorly. I think protesting this would be a good idea even. But you must also realize that he endangered people's lives. People that might sometimes do some good for others or the country we live in. The SS officers that he took photos of seem to be merely observing. Which I think is no more a crime than the protesting itself. Don't use double standards. If you can freely protest, then the government can freely watch you do it. That protects you and others. All I'm saying is to think heavily about the ideas and the consequences that you are talking about. It's important to realize too the facts of life in America and the rest of the world. But what do I know, I'm Just Another White Guy(JAWG)!

Its a well known fact that the establishment once thoroughly installed wants to keep all the power for itself. As my History teacher recited endlessly, "Power corrupts; Absolute power corrupts absolute." The people in power (military, politicians, corporations, illuminati, etc.)enjoy this ability to control things. Now taht they have this ability they don't want to give any of it up. The politicians are elected by corporations, through the use of soft money, which allows the campaigns to run smear ad campaigns taht distort facts. Have any of you noticed how politicians shy away from debates now a days? Its because at a debate, the spin and communications people have no control. What little does get said is the same babble that you see in their ads.
When people start questioning this th esystem gets worried. It starts to be afraid that someone else might take their control away from them. So they try to stop these upstarts, in the processes forgetting that thats how they got there. if you think about it the nation has always been controlled by the few. At first very few people had the right to vote and even the ones that did weren't trusted enough to make the decsision on their own, no, the framers of th econstitution created the electoral college to make sure that the "ignorant" public wouldn't make the "wrong" decision. Now with this war on terrorism, the administration has been able to pass legislation expanding their power and further circumventing the constitution. Not that that was ever a really big roadblock in their plans when they really wanted to get around it.
More to come soon.

Amerikan Fascism is alive and well inside the United
States and a mature brand of fascism exists here now in its highest form. Amerikan Fascism actually become entrenched during the later years of the FDRoosevelt Administration and has been around for decades. However, many people only have a comic-Nazi-Hitler type notion about it all. Plus some idiots equate it with communism.

People should check stuff out for themselves and make
up their minds. I respect the Spirit of Rebellion of
the Raise the Fist Group and can understand why it did
become a threat. Our enemies hate natural freedom-
loving people who exercise their natural humane rights.

Between here and death, we must all stand up and take a stand for social justice. We dare not shiver in fear and squirm away.

Check out the Raise the Fist Yahoo Group
http://groups.yahoo.com/group/raisethefist/
http://www.la.indymedia.org/display.php3?article_id=14354

Towards Peace On Mother Earth~~
Peter S. Lopez ~~ Humane Liberation Party

That'll teach you you dog-fucking little troublemaker. I hope they throw the book at you.

Isn't it funny how some people can be so judgemental? I doubt any of us know anywhere near the full truth of this event, however, I always ask myself one question in dealing with government. Is (insert government sponsored action) acting to protect the rights of humans? If the answer is negative, then the government is probobly acting in its own interests, which will always be WRONG. As the 'facts' stand, RTF was an overall benefit to us as a country and the feds broke one of the most sacred rules of human life.

In my opinion the whole problem dates back to the times when the soviet empire collapsed. Since then the capitalistic system has had growing difficulties justifying itself, because the capitalistic system is inherently wrong. It always depended on foes from outside and the so called world terrorism (if it is not a purely artificial thing) only partly does this job. People realize this and so the governments started an FUD/terror-campaign which would have Hitler caused to wet his sheets. The methods and opportunites of CNN would have given Goebbels a Hard-on.
But what's the alternative ? Socialism as we saw it in the former Soviet Union and its allies was a nice social experiment, but the ideas would not stand the greed inherent to man. On the other hand, capitalism is dead wrong because it is completely against nature -and is collapsing already. Capitalism preaches constant competition and in nature this is definitely not true. What we need is a certain mix of both. A system that has the best of both worlds. A system that delivers to the greed without loosing focus on social issues. The question is: Will we be able to find this system ? I grew up during the 80s when mankind was constantly in danger of destroying itself. But without socialism as a counterpart to the pure greed of capitalism, I think we are even more on the brink of destruction.

Oh, and Kabe is either an idiot, or a mole. Probobly an idiot.

Am I the only one noticing that this kid "hacked" into into a website belonging to the Defense Department? I've looked at the First Amendment and it says nothing about breaking into people's computers as a protected form of speech. Its a crime and for good reason. People like him are as big a threat to your privacy as any corporation.

http://www.newsbytes.com/news/02/174092.html

I noticed that as well, Carl. I find it interesting to note that the above news story is intentionally misleading people. Looks like you can trust this media source as much as you can trust all other media sources. Even better it doesn't seem like to many people are checking other sources to find out if la.indymedia is telling the whole story. I wonder how many other half-truths that have come from this news zine.

I know everybody else here is just posting "THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERIKKKA IS JUST TRYING TO BRING AN ANARCHIST DOWN FOR HIS THOUGHTS!" No. You can say whatever the hell you want, the government wont loose any sleep over a rich white kid from Texas. He, however, hacked several websites and gave out bomb making intructions. Which is against the law.

Also, I'd like to get this off my chest Anarchism is bull-crap. I don't know what dream Star Trek utopian world you're living in, but if you set a "to each his own" government, greed will still exist. So will murder and rape, and everything bad we have now. Except it will be unstoppable. Of course it would lead to a dictatorship or formation of some sort of new government. But you probably haven't thought of it that way, because you think your black shirt with the red A logo is RAD!

I know everybody else here is just posting "THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERIKKKA IS JUST TRYING TO BRING AN ANARCHIST DOWN FOR HIS THOUGHTS!" No. You can say whatever the hell you want, the government wont loose any sleep over a rich white kid from Texas. He, however, hacked several websites and gave out bomb making intructions. Which is against the law.

Also, I'd like to get this off my chest Anarchism is bull-crap. I don't know what dream Star Trek utopian world you're living in, but if you set a "to each his own" government, greed will still exist. So will murder and rape, and everything bad we have now. Except it will be unstoppable. Of course it would lead to a dictatorship or formation of some sort of new government. But you probably haven't thought of it that way, because you think your black shirt with the red A logo is RAD!

I know everybody else here is just posting "THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERIKKKA IS JUST TRYING TO BRING AN ANARCHIST DOWN FOR HIS THOUGHTS!" No. You can say whatever the hell you want, the government wont loose any sleep over a rich white kid from Texas. He, however, hacked several websites and gave out bomb making intructions. Which is against the law.

Also, I'd like to get this off my chest Anarchism is bull-crap. I don't know what dream Star Trek utopian world you're living in, but if you set a "to each his own" government, greed will still exist. So will murder and rape, and everything bad we have now. Except it will be unstoppable. Of course it would lead to a dictatorship or formation of some sort of new government. But you probably haven't thought of it that way, because you think your black shirt with the red A logo is RAD!

I know everybody else here is just posting "THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERIKKKA IS JUST TRYING TO BRING AN ANARCHIST DOWN FOR HIS THOUGHTS!" No. You can say whatever the hell you want, the government wont loose any sleep over a rich white kid from Texas. He, however, hacked several websites and gave out bomb making intructions. Which is against the law.

Also, I'd like to get this off my chest Anarchism is bull-crap. I don't know what dream Star Trek utopian world you're living in, but if you set a "to each his own" government, greed will still exist. So will murder and rape, and everything bad we have now. Except it will be unstoppable. Of course it would lead to a dictatorship or formation of some sort of new government. But you probably haven't thought of it that way, because you think your black shirt with the red A logo is RAD!

I know everybody else here is just posting "THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERIKKKA IS JUST TRYING TO BRING AN ANARCHIST DOWN FOR HIS THOUGHTS!" No. You can say whatever the hell you want, the government wont loose any sleep over a rich white kid from Texas. He, however, hacked several websites and gave out bomb making intructions. Which is against the law.

Also, I'd like to get this off my chest Anarchism is bull-crap. I don't know what dream Star Trek utopian world you're living in, but if you set a "to each his own" government, greed will still exist. So will murder and rape, and everything bad we have now. Except it will be unstoppable. Of course it would lead to a dictatorship or formation of some sort of new government. But you probably haven't thought of it that way, because you think your black shirt with the red A logo is RAD!

I know everybody else here is just posting "THE GOVERNMENT OF AMERIKKKA IS JUST TRYING TO BRING AN ANARCHIST DOWN FOR HIS THOUGHTS!" No. You can say whatever the hell you want, the government wont loose any sleep over a rich white kid from Texas. He, however, hacked several websites and gave out bomb making intructions. Which is against the law.

Also, I'd like to get this off my chest Anarchism is bull-crap. I don't know what dream Star Trek utopian world you're living in, but if you set a "to each his own" government, greed will still exist. So will murder and rape, and everything bad we have now. Except it will be unstoppable. Of course it would lead to a dictatorship or formation of some sort of new government. But you probably haven't thought of it that way, because you think your black shirt with the red A logo is RAD!

I can't believe that some people actually think that the defense department would be stupid enough to put anything vaugely important anywhere near a normal internet connection. All their classified stuff is on a completely seperate system, the reamians of the old military ARPANet. It uses completely seperate land lines, never comes near a computer that has an open port 8000 or 8080, let alone put anything on a server thats outside the firewall. Sure you could hack the webpage, but what the hell is the point in that? Maybe as a form of protest, but if you do that you had better do it with a sense of humor if you want any leeway with the judge. If the webmaster really did hack a DoD website, than they had every right to raid his house because he purpotrated a denial of service. If they did it because he ran a very extremist website than they had no right. Maybe they were looking for an excuse, but when they are out to get you, you have to be smart enough not to give them anything to arrest you for. If you want to be a true revoloutionary in modern society today I suggest you do some reading on how to ggo about it the right way. I suggest such books (you know, those paper things) as Robert Heinlein's "Revolt in 2100," "The Moon is a Harsh Mistress," and maybe some Jack Higgin's books. That should give you a good starting foundation to understand the who, what, where, when and how of revoloution. After that I suggest you take a look at the reading list that Rage Against the Machine gives on their website http://www.ratm.com its one of the more complete basic intoductory readinding lists on the subject.

You guys need to face the facts, he broke the law and that is why they came and got him. Yes he was a freedom fighter ,blah, blah, blah. Or so you say. But the govermnet would not touch him for fear of everyone would get pissed of all the government and raise hell. Yet, they saw a chance to get him for some computer crimes and they took it. sorry.

How can there be an Anarchist Federation? Is that even possible?

Wake up, you silly whiners. This fool took your crazy idealism TOO FAR. We (and by We I mean americans who appreciate will tolerate your delusional conspiracy theories about the terrible, repressive american government because we love freedom, and that includes freedom of expression. As soon as you start posting BOMB MAKING instructions on a popular forum, however, daddy is going to have to swat baby on the butt! I really have a hard time understanding you people. Why do you engage in such self-destructive behavior? You are trying to destroy your own home! You have in america the opporitunity to make of your life whatever you want. Abandon your rediculous ideals and concentrate on making YOURSELF happy, which is all you really care about. Really, it is. The rest of america, the REAL americans, are tired of your unappreciative whining. Grow up and get a job.

When i CALLED- they said nothing about him hacking into any DOD website- I think rumors are getting out of hand-- lets stick to the facts: The site had bomb making instructions-- however, books are sold in public book stores wiwth the same information... the reason it was targeted was because it was deemed 'bad' by the patriot act. I suggest you read summeries of it, because its pretty shady. The FBI can tap phones, recieve emails, or other things with little effort. All they have to do to recieve their warrent is to state that the person under question could be a terrorist-- NO EVUIDENCE REQUIRED.
As for the anarchist bashing-- Thomas Jefferson (whos that guy again? OH YEAH... a "FOUNDING FATHER") said that the people must have a revolution every 25 years in order to make the government fit thier needs and wants. Its time for a change.
Start being smart people-- your rights are being infringed upon.
~AG

Something totally omitted in the piece above is that Sherman Austin was arrested for hacking a few commercial sites, which he was admitted to.

...Because no one reads them anyway" -Tragedy

I was going to make another long amount of statements defending Anarchism and Social Revolutionaries who recognize authoritarianism: injustice, patriarchy, imbalance of decision making power, racism...

But, I feel that this would be a waste of my time. There is already an amazing amount of resources on this site alone, not to mention other important resources throughout this web collectively, who can do this for me...

www.illegalvoices.org
search engines: "NEFAC"
www.a-infos.ca
www.akpress.org

If you really want to make opinions against Anarchism and Anarchists/Anti-Authoritarians, first study the history of our movement.

Everyone here who seems to be working so hard to disregard Sherman's case as a targeted threat to the positions of corrupt power resting in this country; who seems to be downplaying Anarchism (and sounding like the fucking pattern; the broken record of denials and protection) should first recognize that Anarchism is not just a youth movement. Recognize that Anarchism is not sub-culture, nor spikey haired, stinky punk rock brats that use the circle 'A' philosophy as a means to throw principles, responsibilities and ethics out the door.

If you think that this world is the way it is because of "human nature" then continue to drown in your voids. What does it mean to be polluted? A better question would be, what system, what collective caste is polluting our lives? Study up on the CIA if you think that we are so great. Study up on the COINTELPRO (now legalised) and this system's covert war against black liberation struggles, the native american movements, the women's movements etc...

I am an Anarchist because I will not take the word of a party or a dictator that they/he can lead me to freedom and justice. This has to be done from the bottom up. This will come alive through our communities coming together thru solidarity and persistance. Anarchism is not utopian!

Other than that, take care....

Austin Delgadillo
The Los Angeles Anarchist Black Cross Federation

(oh, and if anyone wants to check out my federation website you can go to www.abcf.net)

You can check out the page here to see what it used to
look like!

http://web.archive.org/web/*/http://raisethefist.com

OK, first off, I don't think the government is going to loose any sleep over a rich white kid from Texas who has a web site. He can say anything he wants, and nobody will care. He hacked several websites and gave out bomb making instructions. They're not trying to 'silence' him, they're stopping people from seriously getting hurt.

Second off, I find the idea of anarchists uniting funny. Not only because Anarchy has to be the single most stupid idea any one group takes seriously. Even crazier than scientology. The idea that if all rules were abolished, everybody would just be self-suffenct and mind their own business, hence eliminating greed, murder, rape and crime, is just some sort of backwards pipe-dream. All of these anarchist-teens also don't seem to realize that in anarchy, they wouldn't have their presious internet or electricity anymore. Who would run it? And exactly why would groups of Mad Max-style raiders pop up? There'd be nothing stopping them. Mainly, I think all of this anarchy stuff is just an excuse for angsty teens to where RAD shirts with the giant Anarchy logo on them. I think Steve Forbes put it best when he made a comment about how he is actually giving people jobs and they are just marching back and forth. Who is helping people more?

But even then, they're all against orginized governement...so to eliminate it.... they should organize? OK!

Also, about this website, and this indy news, it seems just as subjective as more corporate news sources, only this sems to always take the side of the extreme liberals. I am liberal myself, and I'm offended by this site.

How can you be sick of people exercising thier rights as humans? After all the shit we put everone else in the world(mostly third world countries) how can you say that expressing oneself, or revealing information that is accessible at about any bookstore [i.e., bomb making directions] is something that one deserves to be shut down for-- WHETHER YOU AGREE WITH IT OR NOT, WE AS HUMANS HAVE THE RIGHT TO FREELY SPEAK.





Children die every day thanks to the American ideals and views of other countries. Sweatshops in Honduras, El Salvador, and the Philippians run by the Gap, Old Navy, and especially places like Wall Mart and other major labels make people work for unbearable wages in unbearable conditions. America has also waged a war on terrorism; a war without boundaries. This war can target any innocent person that is around the same area as alleged terrorist ties. What can we do to help? People who protest these certain atrocities are arrested, beaten and blamed for vandalism and other things that they are innocent of. America has done many things despite the rest of the world’s protests.


American sweatshops bombard third world countries in these times. In the early 1900’s, American workers fought against the government for fair wages and to put an end to child labor. This battle was a hard win, but today American people receive fair and just wages. For example, if someone in a foreign country working in an American sweatshop protests wages, they are taken away. Sometimes, they are never heard from again. So many see these sweatshops as an economic genius move. We believe that the cheap labor helps economies of third world countries. Unfortunately, this is not true. Money made by the workers is a pittance to anything minimum wage in America.


Many of us are concerned about the war on Afghanistan. This “war on terrorism” is a war without boundaries. Anyone can be attacked at anytime by the American government. The US Government is backed by the rest of the world. As President Bush Stated “You are either with us or against us”


Also, this war is very uncontrolled and sloppy. To date, UN officials have condemned the USA for using “Cluster Bombs”. These bombs are highly inaccurate bombs that take out mass quantities of land by breaking apart in the air and falling without guidance. They were used often in their beginning stages of the bombing of Afghanistan, and are also known as a “Dumb Bomb” by the Federation of American Scientists. America’s inability to target substantial targets has shown through when they bombed a clearly marked American Red Cross building, not once, but twice! Two Afghanistan Mosques in Jalalabad and Darunta were bombed during prayer. Some feel that the war on Afghanistan is justified. With the death toll rising above those in New York caused by September 11th attacks, other do not.


The few that disagree with American actions head to the streets to protest-but often, they are arrested for peaceful protesting. We were shown many examples of this during the WTO conference in Seattle recently. Hundreds of non-violent protestors were harassed and arrested by police. Many people think that protesting should be halted at the time when American forces are at war.


However, Thomas Jefferson stated in the Declaration of Independence, “Whenever any form of government becomes destructive of these ends [i.e., securing inherent and inalienable rights, with powers derived from the consent of the governed], it is the right of the people to alter or abolish it, and to institute new government, laying its foundation on such principles, and organizing its powers in such form, as to them shall seem most likely to effect their safety and happiness." We have the right to change our government as we choose, especially when it becomes oppressive and infringes on our rights as citizens.


Each of these factors shows that a change will be coming soon. One nation cannot control everything, let alone the opinions of its own people. I predict that someday, people from all over the world will rise up and reform this government that hurts so many, yet helps so few. It is not right for one nation to have all of the power. Any world history book shows that one government with supreme power cannot stay alive forever. I sincerely hope that our government can make a change for the better and start practicing what they preach. Otherwise, someone is going to get hurt… and most likely, it will be the USA.





Please write your congress representative and tell them that the patriot act is unconstitutional.
~AG

p.s. The FBI never said anything about hacking into any DOD sites or anything else-- it was shut down soley for the content-- please tell me where you got this information about the founder of raisethefist.com hacking into any sites.

and for god sakes-- lets not bash anarchy anymore... this is something that has to do with our "democratic" system of govermnet-- not the idea of anarchy.
Truthfully I would like to hear an argument that has to do with the constitutional rights that are being infringed upon.
Thanks
~AG

Yeah boohoo, amerikkka is so evil, jesus try living in a real dictatorship for about five minutes and see how you get on. Who smashed Hitler? Tojo? Who faced off and bankrupted the murderous communist tyranies? Evil Amerikkka, the worst, most fascist country on earth apparently.

Grow up, you pathetic whitebread dweebs, no ones impressed by your big scary 'anarchist' credentials.

I was there. The protests were peaceful at first, and so were the police, then the angsty teens showed up, started knocking down garbage cans and lighting fires, and generally rioting and causing chaos. The police ended up arresting some innocent people too, but guess what? They were eventually released. How are the police supposed to know who's rioting and who's not?

Ugh.

Broken records, needles skipping, in one ear and out the other. Denial. Protection of.... ?
Same ignorant replies over and over and over and over and over and over and over....

I bet there are some agents on here typing up a lot of the dumb comments you see throughout this post. I am not even going to waste my time trying to defend Social Anarchism. The info is in this internet. Some resources I enjoy, others are total crap. One can call oneself an Anarchist, but the truth is, it does not matter if you talk about it, or wear it on your chest, or even label yourself one...

It is a matter of your principles. It comes down to your most basic relationships. Anarchism is solidarity amongst human beings. It addresses the dignity of the individual, and the spirit of the collective. It embodies the pratice of mutual aid and co-operation, as well as accountability and reliability. Words, yes - but I am interested in actions. Time will tell, as it has told.

I have yet to see one arguement against the theory and practice of Anarchism or Anti-Authoritarianism on here that isn't blatantly pathetic, misguided, and/or ridiculous.

If you do not believe that we can build this movement, than fine. That is your opinion. If you really have no outrage when it comes to the history of this country and it's foriegn policies and international agendas; then you have either grown up in a nice neighborhood, with light skin privilege, and lack of expierience in poverty; or you just need more time to study up.

I am all about being a student and a listener, as I am sure a lot of us are, but it is hard to properly respond to people that have no idea about what Anarchism is. Again, I dare you to do some extensive studying about it, before you come back with more bullshit.

And as far as Sherman being white, this is not true. I have known him for a while. Your assumptions don't cut it. This is the time for asking questions, not being self-righteous.

Wave you flags, and keep on smiling.

Shit is coming down either way, and people are starting to organize themselves all around the world. This countries agencies know it. IMC covers it. It is happening.

Arguements with someone who refuses to look beyond, are not what is most important here. We have people in prison for political reasons who need our support. We have community centers to build. We have defense programs to organize. We have mutual aid to put in to practice. It is happening either way.

Even in the midst of fascism rising, we persist!

Austin Delgadillo
The Los Angeles Anarchist Black Cross Federation
(www.abcf.net)

(www.illegalvoices.org/apoc/)

(www.akpress.org)

(infoshop.org)

Guys, grow a brain. I used to be into anarchy etc. but the bottom line is this: anarchy is NOT pointless hacking of other web sites, anarchy is NOT directions on how to make explosives, and anarchy is NOT spreading misinformed hate propaganda against any government. There are other ways to get your lebertarian socialist messages out WITHOUT pointless vandalism of other peoples or companies sites, WITHOUT resorting to violence against people who dont follow your views. The bottom line is this, its people like this Sherman character that are the reason anarchy is NOT taken seriously by mainstream society.......because all you do is destroy things and spread anti-US gov't hate (wether you mean to or not). Follow the examples of people like Chomsky or Fisk, and advance your cause through discussion and debate, not hacking and violence. Youre all against the FBI seizing his stuff with guns in hand and yet you ACTUALLY think that the solution is ALSO violence?! (making bombs) That site didnt get taken down because of its message, it got taken down because of the misinformed youngster punk-anarchist running it. To conclude, YES America has somewhat fascist roots (especially its foreign policy), YES it can be oppressive (and it is), but pointless vandalism of corporate sites (simply because they make money through labour of others, and are the symbol of capitalist society), and instructions on how to make weapons is just silly, and completely pushes your movement backwards.

David Allen says "He, however, hacked several websites and gave out bomb making intructions. Which is against the law"

no, it's not, at least the bomb part. i can buy at barnes & nobles instructions on how to do that, or even get it for free at the library.

hey carl panzram! you wrote, "Am I the only one noticing that this kid "hacked" into into a website belonging to the Defense Department? I've looked at the First Amendment and it says nothing about breaking into people's computers as a protected form of speech. Its a crime and for good reason. People like him are as big a threat to your privacy as any corporation."

you're equating hacking DoD websites with breaking into people's computers? the target of one is a department, a business, the other an individual. i wish people would stop confusing the two.

people like him? (btw, he's black. and you're sloppy.) oh yeah, cause he's as rich as any corporation. and is trying to sell us something. yeah, i'm deifinately adding him to my corporatewatch list, right above microsoft. he's a real threat.

JAWG writes, "you must also realize that he endangered people's lives. People that might sometimes do some good for others or the country we live in. The SS officers that he took photos of seem to be merely observing. Which I think is no more a crime than the protesting itself. Don't use double standards. If you can freely protest, then the government can freely watch you do it. That protects you and others."

ok. that makes some sense. but they (meaning the SS, FBI, etc) are constantly taking photos of protestors at demonstrations. so how was sherman taking photos a double standard? or posting them on his webpage? you -know- the FBI is sharing their photos with the SS, and vice versa.

oh and to john, with his heading of "you tits" -- lovely misogyny displayed prominantly. and what does this mean:"That site didnt get taken down because of its message, it got taken down because of the misinformed youngster punk-anarchist running it"? also, chomsky has said in different interviews that he believes in protesting in the streets etc , but that he can help to bring change best with his writings and such.

To the one who posted (the offensive) "you tits" or something to that extent - read Ward Churchill's 'Pacifism as Pathology'.

And beyond my trying to plug an insightful piece of literature ...if a social revolutionary is limited to the ideology of non-violence, and only this (thus condemns others who defend themselves and their social visions), then we will fail in solidarity, tactic, and victory.

Do I believe that violence should be avoided in most every step, of course. I would like to see no bloodshed whatsoever, but this is not realistic with history in mind. Especially to this present day.

You quote Noam Chomsky, but do you understand that he doesn't even condemn those who engage in armed struggles. And largely, pacifism is middle class. It might be convenient for you to do things non-violently, and that is fine. I am not attacking this choice of yours. But do not condemn others who believe in self-defense, or even in taking offensive actions against their oppressors.

"When the choice is set between cowardice and violence, I would advise violence."
-Ghandi

"You cannot speak to a man if you do not know his language. If his language is a shotgun, then go get a shotgun."
-Malcom X

I am more about building than destroying. In a sense, setting up the alternatives is still, in process, destroying the old oppressive institutions with community controlled programs and collectives. In basic social settings, violence can be avoided in many situations but this does not mean that there are not individuals and agencies out their who are preparing to smash our movements through any illegitimate means.

Why did the US government fund the CONTRAS? In what ways have we smashed opposition in other "third" world countries? Do you not expect that this type of repression will not be taking place right here, right now?

Study up on the Black Panthers. Study up on AIM. Look at what this countries agencies have done to our community centers in the past and present. What is COINTELPRO? It was said to have ended as a result of public disapproval, although this is bullshit. And now, through our "manufactured consent" it is totally legal, and totally unconstitutional. (not to say that the constitution was ever for anyone in the beggining besides rich-whitey, capitalist-class, slave-owning scum of the earth).

I can understand that any non-levelheaded individual can see information about making bombs or offensive weaponry and use these recipies in an unprincipled, undisciplined manner. But again, these instructions can be found anywhere - and better ones at that too.

I think other people have already clearly provided some positive responses to the issue of Sherman's allegedly hacking into other sites.

And once again, remember that a lot of us in the Anarchist community, here in Los Angeles, are young. Inexpierience is inevitable, and sometimes we have to make mistakes to crucially learn from them. That is why education is important. Tactics are not concrete.

The fact remains, Sherman's intentions are right on. As are a lot of us youth involved in Revolutionary struggles. The point is not giving up. The point is learning from, and winning.

We recognize the imbalances, and we have a driving spirit and angst when we come into this. Everything is overwhelming and things seem desperate, in which, they are. What do you say to one who recognizes that time is running out? ...that this generation is going to be the fighting one.

And on a final note:
It is damn cold of anyone who blames us for the state's repression and violence against our movements. They do not want to see people taking their power away. It is as simple and as complex as this. This is a "National Security State". 'They' are about protecting 'their' interests. And gee, we are in California - look at the amount of spending on Prisons (private or not) as compared to Schools. Why are corporate interests above social interests?

A conspiracy? Of course! "They want this country going back to it's "third world" climate, as expierienced in the early 1900's." (to quote Michael Perenti)

If our interests are our lives, the health of our communities, and the world we belong to, then we are going to have to be prepared for thier inevitable attacks against us. "Peace by Piece" -Kuwasi Balagoon

Austin Delgadillo
The Los Angeles Anarchist Black Cross Federation
(www.abcf.net)

I am just curious where it went.

The "Patriot Act" is just the beginning of our own little Orwellian nightmare, remember it always starts small with some "emergency measures" but soon these "measures" aren't enough! and the emergency never ends. Yellow stars anyone?

P.S. What do you think the US Government will call Consentration Camps?

I dont agree with what you say however I will fight to the death to protect your right to say it.

I dont agree with what you say however I will fight to the death to protect your right to say it.

Whatever really happened, and for whatever reasons it was done, these guys knew who the kid was (remember, this is important, KID). They knew where he lived, they probably watched his habits for years. The sheer amount of firepower they brought to bear on his household is ridiculous. The amount of money spent on that raid was therefore, also ridiculous. Fear Tactics. "What the kid got, was just." I don't know if any of you have ever had a loaded gun pointed at you by cops (three of them, 9mmm pistols, for something I didn't do), but that's scary enough. There is no reason that he couldn't have been apprehended in a more civilized manner, even if he did do something against the almighty LAW.

This is the society we live in today.

I'm scared.

You are a moron.You are just like my father and all of the rest of the mindless pigs who believe that things like this SHOULD HAPPEN.They harrassed him for committing no crime and he is certainly not the first to hack another web-site (*Snicker*) SO STFU BEFORE I CRAM YOUR PIGHEADED IDEAS UP YOUR FAT ASS YOU PILE OF SHIT.


~Phat_Rat

Why is it that you went on a rant that answered FEW of the things I brought up?.....I never quoted Chomsky, nor did I deny that the U.S. is oppressive. However, you think that avoiding violence completely is absurd.....because of our history?! Our thoughts should not be slave to our past....and if you will look back, you will also see that weve learned over the years, that mass death and destruction really does less to further peace, and more to further war. The U.S.' violent foreign policy has not brought peace.....it has only brought about more revolt and hatred.....and yet you think violence to bring about change at home wont have the same effect? Hypocritical, inverse logic if you ask me. BOTTOM LINE: The kid had bomb making instructions, advocated violent revolt, and hacked websites -- one or more of these were illegal -- so the kid has been detained, simple as that. I despise the U.S. government -- but not for upholding the law. Perhaps in your next reply you can actually refute ALL of my points instead of going on another self righteous anarchist rant.

Austin -- if you do think that violence is the inevitable answer here -- how come I havent seen you or your buddies out there fighting yet? You "revolutionaries" have a tendency to rant and debate to no end, yet you never seem to really DO anything. You pacify yourselves and your beliefs with leftist literature and indy media -- but theres never a revolt. I doubt you were at Seattle (or QC or Geneva, or anywhere else for that matter) although im sure you will claim you were now. So for all of you I use the age old adage....put up or shut up.

It was a outrage to liberty and democracy. I think that all american citizens must think seriousely about make something to prevent the complete destrution of these ideals.

To John.

We can go on about this little debate over violence amidst Social Transformations/Revolutions, etc...
Yet, I am tired of discussing shit like this. I think that both of us had made a couple of wrong turns here and there, and there is a lot that can be discussed about this. I am tired right now, and I am trying to focus on how to provide support for Sherman.

You may disagree with this, and that is fine. But there is a lot about this case that you do not know.

So I am going to stop it at this. Keep checking back to indymedia la for updates, if you care. We will be fairly active in Sherman's support, whereever we can be of service.

Everything is a learning process.

Austin Delgadillo
The Los Angeles Anarchist Black Cross Federation
(www.abcf.net)

john about your adage put up or shut up
what would be the point of revolting right now? we would be shot up by submachine guns in a few days and treated as terrorists.... whats the point of revolting unless there is a giant movement??

Now I think all we can focus on is outreach and organizing and when the time comes we have our insurrection...

Dear John:
so far all you've done is insulted A.Delgadillo who seems like quite a nice guy, and also insulted those that believe that at some points violence in self-defence is useful. That does not prove your assertion that violence only leads to undesirable outcomes. Good examples of justified violence in self-defence are WW2, Spain'36, union battles against Pinkerton's, wars of independence (Ireland, America etc.). There are many points at which violence becomes necessary: mostly in response the violence of the ruling classes. Remember "fascists are the shock-troops of Capital". However, this is NOT the point of the RaiseTheFist raid, and the objections to it. If you actually READ the charges filed against Sherman then you will see that he is NOT accused of hacking (as though that were "violent" *shakes head in bemused puzzlement*), nor yet of making bombs (could it be possible that that pernicious idea was spread by the really crap newsbytes.com article which reported the significant discovery of 4 Snapple bottles in Sherman's bedroom?). No, sherman has been charged with POSTING INFORMATION ABOUT MAKING BOMBS on his website.
That is the central point: DISTRIBUTING INFORMATION is not just "legal" under the Constitution of the United States of America. It is not just permitted. It is not just tolerated. It is ESSENTIAL to Freedom and Democracy. It is guaranteed by the First Amendment. If you, or the FBI, or anyone else doesn't like it then they should fuck off to China or some other dictatorship.

TO "Dave Allen". Anarchism is based upon the idea of voluntary association, mutual aid and democracy. In most of its forms it requires a higher degree of organization and co-operation than you will find in the slave-economies of Capitalism. If you are actually interested in finding out what it is then look at www.infoshop.org.

John...How can you judge Austin when you nothing about him. I don't know you and I'm not going to judge you but all you are doing is slandering his name and then names of all social revolutionaries. If you are going to judge someone, know the facts.

What happened to Sherman is horrible and unfortunately, legal. Sherman is only 18 and he's facing an incredible amount of jail time. We need to support him in any way possible whether it be writing letters to him or sending money to pay for a decent lawyer for him. This is clearly a case dealing with free speech and the ability to exercise the right to use it. Although he did have guides to incendiary devices and explosives on his site, there are instructional guides to making weapons and explosives sold in most army surplus stores. Also, a very famous book that many of you have probably heard of "Guerilla Warfare" by Ché Guevara, has a very detailed description of urban warfare, an instructional guide to making molotov cocktails and making anti-tank weapons, and many other "threatening" devices. This book is sold at stores nationwide and it hasn't been pulled off the shelves. He has been targeted because his site was effective and inspired many people to be free thinking and recognize the injustices that are constatntly allowed to take place. I personally care very much for Sherman's welfare and plan on doing everything I can to support him and I encourage everyone to do the same. Long Live RAISE THE FIST!

RTF or anyone who knows,
what can i do to help? I live in Santa Monica and am willing t o organise about this if anyone is interested, email me. RTF, you have my support.

Like Austin....I too have grown tired of this....sohere is a couple of quick replies.

To "hey", you have had longer than the last 4 months to revolt agaainst the state (since the attacks) so tht is baseless.

As far as waiting for a big movement, how exactly do you think movements start?? By people like yourself....so stop talking and debating and go DO something.

To "JW", I never judged Mr. Delgadillo. I too view him as a fairly nice guy, I simply conflict with his views, so get it out of your head that anyone who doesnt agree with your views is "attacking" you.

I do agree, however, with people like Dave Allen, Anarchy IS a pipe dream, there are so many fundamental arguments against anarchy that I havent even scratched the surface of yet. Anyway, I apologize to anyone who was inadvertently offended by what I wrote, although I still stand by it.

To Mr.Delgadillo: I went to your American Black Cross Federation site and was very much intrigued by it. It seems like a very worthy cause. I was just curious as to what your position was (if you have a formal one, of course). I apologize if I put you among the ranks of other angst-ridden teens who flock to things like anarchy as a way of rebelling against anything; you are obviously a bit more informed than that.

As for the rest of you, if youre looking for a way to live in peace, away from all of this oppression....I recommend searching on the net about the kibbutzes (I believe that is the spelling, although im probably wrong) in the Middle East.

Like Austin....I too have grown tired of this....sohere is a couple of quick replies.

To "hey", you have had longer than the last 4 months to revolt agaainst the state (since the attacks) so tht is baseless.

As far as waiting for a big movement, how exactly do you think movements start?? By people like yourself....so stop talking and debating and go DO something.

To "JW", I never judged Mr. Delgadillo. I too view him as a fairly nice guy, I simply conflict with his views, so get it out of your head that anyone who doesnt agree with your views is "attacking" you.

I do agree, however, with people like Dave Allen, Anarchy IS a pipe dream, there are so many fundamental arguments against anarchy that I havent even scratched the surface of yet. Anyway, I apologize to anyone who was inadvertently offended by what I wrote, although I still stand by it.

To Mr.Delgadillo: I went to your American Black Cross Federation site and was very much intrigued by it. It seems like a very worthy cause. I was just curious as to what your position was (if you have a formal one, of course). I apologize if I put you among the ranks of other angst-ridden teens who flock to things like anarchy as a way of rebelling against anything; you are obviously a bit more informed than that.

As for the rest of you, if youre looking for a way to live in peace, away from all of this oppression....I recommend searching on the net about the kibbutzes (I believe that is the spelling, although im probably wrong) in the Middle East.

Like Austin....I too have grown tired of this....sohere is a couple of quick replies.

To "hey", you have had longer than the last 4 months to revolt agaainst the state (since the attacks) so tht is baseless.

As far as waiting for a big movement, how exactly do you think movements start?? By people like yourself....so stop talking and debating and go DO something.

To "JW", I never judged Mr. Delgadillo. I too view him as a fairly nice guy, I simply conflict with his views, so get it out of your head that anyone who doesnt agree with your views is "attacking" you.

I do agree, however, with people like Dave Allen, Anarchy IS a pipe dream, there are so many fundamental arguments against anarchy that I havent even scratched the surface of yet. Anyway, I apologize to anyone who was inadvertently offended by what I wrote, although I still stand by it.

To Mr.Delgadillo: I went to your American Black Cross Federation site and was very much intrigued by it. It seems like a very worthy cause. I was just curious as to what your position was (if you have a formal one, of course). I apologize if I put you among the ranks of other angst-ridden teens who flock to things like anarchy as a way of rebelling against anything; you are obviously a bit more informed than that.

As for the rest of you, if youre looking for a way to live in peace, away from all of this oppression....I recommend searching on the net about the kibbutzes (I believe that is the spelling, although im probably wrong) in the Middle East.

John,

You still haven't addressed the central issue: Sherman is NOT BEING CHARGED WITH VIOLENCE. He is being charged with disseminating information. He is being arrested for one of the basic and fundamental Freedoms that we take for granted. Any you are trying to start a row about pacifism! If you believe in Freedom and Democracy then NOW is the time to defend it, while we still have it!

With regard to the rest of the incoherent, off-topic argument you still haven't answered anything: you assert that pacifism is the answer. You don't address the historical situations I brought up where pacifism would have been foolish. You recommend that we live in kibbutzim! Nice idea, but unfortunately kibbutzim are in existence only because the Zionist government is busy murdering Palestinians. You, John and other pacifists live in hopes of a never-to-be-attained-Utopia, not Anarchists! Anarchists have demonstrated that mutual aid, direct democracy and voluntary association are viable.

First of all "slave", it was YOU that threw this off course with your last reply.

Allow me to paste an excerpt from your last message:

"No, sherman has been charged with POSTING INFORMATION ABOUT MAKING BOMBS on his website.
That is the central point: DISTRIBUTING INFORMATION is not just "legal" under the Constitution of the United States of America. It is not just permitted. It is not just tolerated. It is ESSENTIAL to Freedom and Democracy."

WHat you ignore is that there are RESTRICTIONS on DISTRIBUTING INFORMATION. There has to be, for the sake of not only YOUR security, but the WORLDS security. People cant just paste any kind of goddamn information they want, thats ludicrous. With the new bills being passed, anything deemd "terrorist" or "terrorist-like activity" can be stopped. And I dont know about you, but an Anti-Anything-American site that advocates armed rebellion against he government (or even SEEMS to advocate it) and has instructions to making explosives would seem to fall into that "terrorist activity" category DONT YOU THINK??!! Good god man, now, I dont agree with the law, but its there. And I will fight the law here in Canada (Bill C-36), but I will fight it with WORDS and PROTEST, not fucking bombs or machine guns or anything else you deem "necessary".

Which brings me to my next point,

I am not a goddamn pacifist, no matter what your angst ridden response may say, I AM NOT. I simply do not believe that violence has solved anything in this world. World War 2 was the last war that NEEDED to be fought, but if you remember correctly, one of the chief reasons Germany hated us so much was because of the FIRST world war (war guilt clause, huge reparations etc.). And if you go further back, the reason WW1 started was because of an armed attack against Francis Ferdinand in Serbia (I think).

On other things, the U.S.'s unwaivering support of armed Islamic aggression against Palestine hasnt solved anything, nor has the "war on terrorism", or the bombing of Iraq, or the war in Vietnam. All they have served to do is intensify hatred and bring MORE violence.

So dont give me your self-righteous "Anarchy is the only real way to go" bullshit. THe world began out of anarchy, and THIS is the system that emerged. With that said, I am NOT a capitalist (im a democratic socialist), but the reason anarchy hasnt amassed a huge following is NOT because people are afraid, its not because people are REALLY greedy, its because THE SYSTEM DOES NOT AND WILL NOT WORK.

If you want me to elaborate on just why the anarchist ideology is so very flawed, you can ask, ive gots lots to say on that topic.

Sincerely Yours (although not really),
John

Man, distributing information is one thing, distributing information about making explosives that could hurt people is DEEMED TERRORIST by the U.S. government, like it or not.

John,
you argue quite clearly in your emails that violence is not the answer. Then you argue that WW2 was justified. Then you talk about "escaping to peace" in kibbutzim. Obviously you have no clear understanding or principles. You take it on a case by case basis. You don't agree with RaiseTheFist, so you decide that's an example where the violence of the State against Sherman is justified. Yet when Sherman merely TALKS about violence you say he is not justified.
Then you assert that Sherman has no right to distribute information. Sorry John, the Bill of Rights of the United States of America is quite clear on this point:
First Amendment:
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; OR ABRIDGING THE FREEDOM OF SPEECH, OR OF THE PRESS, or the right of the people to peaceably assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances.

Nowhere does this say "except if it is information about bomb making which is inaccurate, out of date, available widely in other places, yet most pertinently on an anarchist web site".

You John have been foul-mouthed, dismissive, arrogant, abusive and childish. I hope that you are out protesting Bills C-41, C-42 and C-36 instead of just talking about it. Somehow I suspect that you're in your dorm room talking a big talk. Sherman didn't just talk, he was active in fighting for social justice and is being punished for this on a pretext based upon a piece of un-constitutional legislation which contravenes the founding principle of the United States. Stop defending the indefensible. If Sherman had actually made bombs that's one thing. He didn't. He talked about it.

FREE SHERMAN NOW!!

This is ridiculous, why must this continue??

My reference to "kibbutzim" was a ruse....it was a sarcastic comment, I dont recommend it at all. (note how I started off with "as for the rest of you...")

Secondly, the new law places rules on your first amendment rights. I dont agree with them, but they are there, and therefore its legal....for now anyways. IF it really was THAT unconstitutional, dont you think that it might not have gotten passed, or at least recinded by now? I dont justify the actions taken against them, I just accept that those actions are currently legal.

Thirdly, I dont advocate violence at all, WW2 had to happen because of the hole the "allies" had dug after WW1. My point was that Hitlers rise to power never would have happened if he didnt have the anger of the Germans to play off of after the humiliation of WW1. WW2 needed to happen, but only because we messed up, if we hadnt resorted to petty violence in the first place, none of it would have happened.

However, with that said I still see no problem with taking things case by case, "golden rules" and being set in your beliefs only opens you up to ignorance and arrogance.

And yes I have been out protesting all the recent bills passed in Canada regarding terrorism, so don't assume anything.

Also, it's one thing to "talk about making bombs", and I dont know about you, but I think its one thing to talk ,and another thing to post how to make the damn things. Bombs are dangerous, Sherman wasnt talking about bombs, he was posting the ingredients and basically saying "Here go make your own, and blow something up while youre at it". He may not have said it directly, but what other reason would there be to post the instructions then?

I realize there are other sites out there that have directions as well, but they probably also arent directing hate towards any one group or institution (in Shermans case, the U.S. government). And if they are, they probably just havent been caught yet.

As for being "foul-mouthed, dismissive, arrogant, abusive and childish". Im not abusive, thats just a baseless comment. Arrogant..maybe, but no more arrogant than yourself. Foul mouthed, yep, and get over it. Dismissive, im never dismissive unless I have an informed reason to be, and this is one such case. As for "childish", well I don't know how you would defend that comment, but I dont know of any children that argue politics.

On a side note, why did you put "escape to kibbutzim" when I never actually said it? You're manipulating my words and their intention to fit your argument.

Lastly, what do you mean "violence of the State against Sherman"? The fact that the FBI (or CIA, or whatever) may have been armed doesnt make it violent, hell, for all you know, it may just be standard procedure for raids. Maybe they just weren't armed or "violent" as you thought (you can't believe everything in the Indy media, just like the mainstream. I havent bothered to seek any mainstream coverage on this case to validate your claims however, so you may be right)

I support your fight against the new bills, as they are unjust and just plain wrong in principle; however, as long as the new bill stands, what Sherman did was illegal, plain and simple. Do I agree he whould be freed?...eh...Im really not sure yet.

I have nothing against anarchists or anarchy itself, although I think its ridiculous, nor do I have anything against his anti-U.S. message (minus the bomb making), but would you people put your ideology aside for a moment and look at the legal aspect of this?...as long as the bill is there, hes a criminal, period.

Slave im a very clear thinker, and I know my principles well, so fuck off (that cursing is justified after you told me to "fuck off" to China in an earlier post). Stop taking everything I say out of context and actually FORMULATE an argument. Your replies have been equally if not more arrogant and childish than anything i've said thus far.

John

John,
as I argue, you have no coherent principles. You present two salient points in your long, meandering reants: 1. a mealy-mouthed "violence is wrong" argument which you bolster with the example of WW2 and the fact that Sherman was arrested; 2. an argument for upholding the laws of the State at all costs.

Yet you do not stick clearly to 1, you argue simultaneously that violence is wrong and that you support WW2.

W.r.t. point 2, the limitations on Sherman's First Amendment rights have not yet been tested in the courts. This may well be the first test of the USA PATRIOT Act. That is WHY THIS CASE IS SO IMPORTANT! Of course, with friends like you to oppose it he may as well not bother. There is a related point to this: you are arguing for adherence to any law no matter how moral. Do you really believe this? Or are you making the old confusion of "is means ought?". Do you believe that because the death penalty is legal in many states that we ought not to oppose it because "it's the law?".

In summary, you seem to be arguing "Sherman, I may not agree with you, but I'll defend to the death the right of the State to imprison you".

I have nothing more to say to you. Goodbye.

Do you actually read what I say? I dont think so. I suggest you be done with this argument now too because youre not making any real points anymore.

I dont suggest every law is correct....I suggest that until they have repealed it you dont just follow the socratic method and disobey an "unjust" law....as was the case with Sherman, you fight the law...but you follow it until it is repealed.

Also, I dont agree with violence (for the third time)...as I STATED, its a total shame it had to happen because of humankinds previous violent outbursts against other humans. But there was no other way to undermine Hitler, which is a shame also. It was a classic case of humans having to pay for their previous bloody violence and war, I dont advocate WW2, but it was the only real option aside from the world becoming German. This isnt a confusion of principles....its like when Galileo had to recant on his scientific discoveries to stay alive...I have my principles, but sometimes you are forced to act otherwise to maintain your livelihood (or in this case, freedom).

In other things, I see you ignored my points on the whole "case by case" idea.

- Nor did you address twisting my words (although you did twist them again with the whole "obeying the state at all costs" argument)
- Or my points on "talking about bombs"
- Or anything else I said for that matter

Hear that?, its your argument dying.

I dont like being sarcastic like that, but ill make an exception in your case.

P.S. Calling people "mealy mouthed" does wonders for you in terms of bolstering your image as not being arrogant or childish etc etc. (as I also stated -- to no reply)

Slave....I see a common theme in all of your posts -- you think that most humans are just slaves to pop culture and capitalism. Well heres a little tidbit for ya -- most humans know damn well whats going on around them. They just dont turn to indy media and punk music for their guidance. You may not fall into this category, but I know MANY that do. And Slave, I am most certainly not a blind follower of the stae, trust me.

Ill take the whole "I have nothing more to say to you" statement as you backing out I suppose. And no, Im not trying to goad you into continuing this.

John

To "Slave" and "John",
Slave, although I agree with you there is no point in arguing with John, he's obviously a nutbag. I hope that you're going to be out supporting the Long Beach Black Bloc and others.

John, get yourself a life. This thread is about "Sherman" not about you and your petty little squabbles. If you don't support him, fine, like I give a shit. Now go away and leave indymedia to people that want it.

I agree with this story. I have never visited the site that got shut down but i agree about the conflict because i think raisethefist.com should not have raised so much crap with federal employees and secret service. I just want who ever reads this to realize that I have surfed around and I don't think that raisethefist is such a catchy name as billgates.org, a web site you can hire, become or support terrorism. I think that raise the fist.com seemed like a kool web site and I would be interested in supporting getting a similar site back up.

AIM- Lunix98UnixMeXp
MSN- ltlmykie@hotmail.com
Yahoo!- mykmiller13
E-mail- sfialldaway@Hotmail.com

- Myk

I didn't realize we could be punished for having opinions, but its not the first time. Back in the day they were burning women for being witches, killing native americans by the thousands because they weren't "decent christians", now anyone who doesn't support every single policy of Junior's will be targeted for a dissapearance. Under these conditions all our rights are being rolled back and we're being sent back to the 50s at gun point. I'm a huge taxpayer, I'm a green party member and I DO vote every election. I don't want to bring the system down, I want to change it, but suddenly when you can be punished for simply telling the truth about this country's history, for taking an unfliching look at the bad things that have happened in the past, we should all be dissapeared into federal lockup! Why? Because we believe we have a freedom of speech and thought? Is this america for the people or america for the CIA?

Our government... The U.S. government... For the people? Fuck no! For freedom? Fuck no! For any greater good? Hell fucking no! Niggers can show their black ass pride with their gangs, and their colors, and what ever else. They kill countless numbers of people for drugs, cars, and no god damn reason. What do they get? Smack on the wrist. 90 days in jail. Maybe a few years. But they are again and again back on the streets doing the SAME things. When we, the White people, come together, stand tall, voice our oppions, we get smacked down. We go to jail and prison, and for why? For our words. For trying to better ourselves. For our INTERNET SITES!!! Want to know what I think? I think we should just go around killing the infestations of our country, the nigger, the jew, and all others who are a threat to our survivle. So what? We will get 90 days here and there, maybe a few years in the penn. Oh wait, but we are White, the government cant make too much money off of selling drugs to us like the can niggers. We get the longer sentances. 25 - life. But honestly, that isnt what we want. We are better then that. But we MUST do something! And it must be done soon! But what ever we do, we cant voice any of our oppions over the internet...

...are you stupid or just brain damaged?
Get a life, cracker.
South Carolina would be a good place for you
to spew your rasist crap.
we're all monkeys under the but of Zadoar
the only True Dog.

If you''ve had a glass of wine, and you're not reading every post, this can get confusing. There's quite a bit of mudslinging going on here. There's not a lot of objectivity here.

Here's a road map to help you understand what's going on.

As in the movies, we have the good guys and the bad guys.

The good guys are:
GW Bush
Dick Cheney
Colin Powell
Condoleeza Rice
Bill O'Reilly
Rush Limbaugh
NRO.Com
Wall Street Journal editorials
www.anncouldter.org
etc.

And the bad guys are:

PacificaRadio.org
FSRN.org
Indymedia.org
Jim Hightower
The twit: EJ Dionne
Maureen Down
Molly Ivins
Helen Thomas

And the worst of the worst:
Hillary Clinton
Barbara Boxer
Jesse Jackson
David Bonoir

etc.

www.fsrn.org



------------------------------------------------------------------------
anticrisis

You’re welcome, lynx; anytime.
Have you noticed that these PRADs are getting to be
VERY amusing? But like I said, the Cap. Peachfuzz rule
is a nice guide post for such entities.

you COLLOSAL MORON !!!!!!!!!!
HMMM let me think, what would be the perfect name to get FBI attention.......I KNOW "RAISE THE FIST .COM"
thats perfect just PERFECT
Honestly though, dude if you wanted to fly under the radar, you should have used a better screen name like "mary's little lamb .com" And relied on word of mouth to get "hits".
BUT i mean this when i say it GOOD LUCK MY FRIEND
WITHOUT PEOPLE LIKE YOU, OTHERS WOULD BE AFRAID TO VOICE THEIR OPINIONS> < PERFECT TO CONTROL AND MANIPULATE BY THE GOVERNMENT> DONT GET ME WRONG< I DONT HAVE ANY CONSPIRACY THEORIES BUT IF THE FBI IS GOING TO USE GHESTAPPO LIKE TACTICS THEN LET THE PEOPLE GIVE THEM THE KICK IN THE ASS


ALSO YOUR GETING INVITED TO MY ISLAND TO



BOOOOOOOOM!

This asshole GeorgeW is almost as faschist as the current president. While he no doubt complains about "Tagging" as illegal and immoral, he supports his own version of tagging all over the few pages that make any sense. I'm tired of ra-ra consumerism and the lack of respect for others' opinions that pervades this conservative society.
I'm not outraged enough yet, but am headed there quickly.

Don't think that just because you were shut down that the raisethefist spirit is dead. Here in Waco there hundreds of fellow activist in schools and in public positions that agree with you. Of course we don't agree with everything you say but we with justice and protecting our freedom.