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Full text of 10/14 al-Qaeda pronouncement

by freepress Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2001 at 2:36 PM

The statement was transmitted on al-Jazeera TV Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, a spokesman for Osama Bin Laden's al-Qaeda group, has said the group will retaliate against the US and UK for the air strikes on Afghanistan. Below is the full text of his videotaped statement:

MANY U.S. NETWORKS COMPLY, BBC AND AL JAZEERA RESIST

[MID-EAST REALITIES - MER - www.MiddleEast.Org - Washington - 10/14/2001] : This isn't really about "secret messages". Anyone with a 0 satellite dish can watch the statements in full, in Arabic, on al Jazeera; and the text is widely available on the Internet, in this case from London and the BBC!

What this is really all about is the propaganda war that accompanies any modern-day military war, even if you are holed up in a cave in Afghanistan.

The Americans and allies are clearly now doing everything possible to limit the voices of opposition from the enemy, from the enemies supporters, and from any in the media who even give a forum to any of the above. Everyone from the big networks and newspapers, to Al Jazeera, even to MER is being warned and pressured in one way or another.

On Saturday the following statement was broadcast on video in full by Al Jazeera after the tape was brought to its Kabul office. So far the pressure to keep Al Jazeera from broadcasting such statements in full has failed, but other far more subtle changes are already evident and the reality is Al Jazeera has always held back on some key subjects (a few details on this soon).

British Prime Minister Tony Blair tried to block BBC from broadcasting and printing this al-Qaeda statement, but so far he has failed. President George Bush is having considerably more success. At least two major American networks, FOX News and MSNBC, did not air the statement, most of the other networks made only short and passing reference to it, and CNN showed just brief excerpts while giving its own limited commentary.



BBC-London - Sunday, 14 October, 2001, 04:22 GMT 05:22 UK In full: Al-Qaeda statement



The statement was transmitted on al-Jazeera TV Sulaiman Abu Ghaith, a spokesman for Osama Bin Laden's

al-Qaeda group, has said the group will retaliate against the US and UK for the air strikes on Afghanistan. Below is the full text of his videotaped statement:

"Praise be to God, the Cherisher and Sustainer of the Worlds, and may God's peace and blessings be upon our Prophet Muhammad, may he and all his household and companions be blessed by God.

"Based on the questions and queries that we have received regarding how we view the incidents that have taken place over the past five days, we would like to say that the crusade spearheaded by the two crusaders Bush and Blair is continuing on the territory of Muslim Afghanistan and its population, who are demonstrating day in and day out their sacrifices, firmness and determination to uphold their religion and creed.

"We pray to the Almighty God to hold their feet firmly, to strengthen their resolve, and to grant them victory over the infidels.

"We also would like to declare our full support for this emirate and for the Muslim Afghan people in the face of this ferocious assault, offering all the material and moral resources that we have under the command of Mullah Muhammad Omar, commander of the faithful, may God protect him and grant him certain victory.

"This holds true regardless of the duration of the war. The issue at hand is the issue of an entire nation that opposes humiliation and subservience under the yoke of US arrogance and Jewish persecution.

"The Al-Qaeda organization declares that Bush Senior, Bush Junior, Clinton, Blair and Sharon are the arch-criminals from among the Zionists and Crusaders who committed the most heinous actions and atrocities against the Muslim nation.

"They perpetrated murders, torture and displacement. Millions of Muslim men, women and children died without any fault of their own.

"Al-Qaeda stresses that the blood of those killed will not go to waste, God willing, until we punish these criminals.

'Enduring freedom' "Bush, in the midst of his arrogance, media frenzy, and the enduring freedom that he boasts about must not forget the video footage of Muhammad al-Durrah [a Palestinian child killed by Israeli troops in the

early days of the Palestinian intifada in the Gaza Strip] and his brothers, Muslim children in Palestine and Iraq.

"If he forgot that scene, then we will never forget it. He must know that his 'enduring freedom' which he boasts of has wiped out entire villages in Nangahar near Jalalabad in Afghanistan.

"Villages were completely wiped out. It was not a mistake but a deliberate action. What mistake is that which is repeated three times?

"This village was bombed in the beginning of night, in the middle of the night, and before dawn. "Those who supported this Crusader campaign should realise after things have been clarified that it is a Crusader campaign against Islam and the Muslims.

"Those who supported those criminals go away from Prophet Muhammad, may God's peace and blessings be upon him, who said that the destruction of earth is more tolerable to God than killing a believer without cause.

"What would they say when their deeds are displayed in front of God, praise be to him? What would they say when the female infant buried alive is questioned?

'Leave the Arabian peninsula'

"In this regard, we support the religious rulings issued by senior clerics in the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia, led by His Eminence Shaykh Humud Bin-Uqlah al-Shu'aybi, who said that it is impermissible to co-operate with Jews and Christians and that he who co-operates with them and gives them his opinion or take actions in supporting them becomes apostate and revokes his faith in God and his Prophet, may God's peace and blessings be upon him.

"Al-Qaeda organisation orders the Americans and the infidels in the Arabian Peninsula, particularly the Americans and the British, to leave the Arabian peninsula.

"If the mothers of these need their sons then they should ask them to leave the Arabian peninsula, because the land will be set on fire under their feet, God willing.



"In this regard we greet the mujahidin youths who knew their role and the way to respond to the aggression of the unjust, and killed them.

"We also greet the Muslims, both in the East and West, who staged demonstrations rejecting this criminal aggression, repression, and injustice. "We say to them that they should continue this pressure, especially since the Islamic countries' foreign ministers announced their support for this unjust campaign.

"These do not represent the nation in any case. They do not have the legitimacy that qualifies them to dispose of the nation's destiny and resolutions.

"As for the decisions made by Bush and the US administration to prevent satellite channels and world news agencies from making our voice heard in the world, then this is clear evidence that the US administration fears the

revelation of the truth that led to the Tuesday events.

"This truth shows that Bush is an agent of Israel and sacrifices his people and his country's economy for those and helps them occupy the Muslims' land and persecute their sons.

'Aircraft storm'



"Finally, I address the US secretary of state, who cast doubt about my previous statement and downplayed what we said that there are thousands of Muslim youths who are eager to die and that the aircraft storm will not stop, God willing.

"Powell, and others in the US administration, know that if al-Qaeda organisation promises or threatens, it fulfils its promise or threat, God willing. "Therefore, we tell him tomorrow is not far for he who waits for it. What will happen is what you are going to see and not what you hear.

"And the storms will not calm, especially the aircraft storm. "These storms will not calm until you retreat in defeated in Afghanistan, stop your assistance to the Jews in Palestine, end the siege imposed on the Iraqi people, leave the Arabian Peninsula, and stop your support for the Hindus against the Muslims in Kashmir.

"We also say and advise the Muslims in the United States and Britain, the children, and those who reject the unjust US policy not to travel by plane. "We also advise them not to live in high-rise buildings and towers."

"But honour belongs to God, and his Apostle, and to the believers; but the hypocrites know not."

"Peace and God's blessings be upon you."

Report this post as:

does anyone have an apology?

by nick Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2001 at 8:38 PM
323 349-6674

can anyone act as apologist for them? i grew up as someone supposed to respect and live and let live. i think we should not be bombing innocent people. but i'm beginning to be less concerned with how people think of us--or how al quaeda's sympathizers do. i don't want any more people to die because of this, but more will. how can the middle east/ israel question be resolved? is it the immoveable force and the irresistable object?(or do i have it the other way around?)

if it comes down to israel's existence, what will be the outcome?

Report this post as:

it isn't an apology...

by 'Clause Tuesday, Oct. 16, 2001 at 10:06 PM

Publishing bin Ladin's statement is not acting as an apologist. It's just publishing his statement.

An open democratic society like the USA is founded partly in free flow of information and a trust in the population's ability to deal with and understand information. Suppressing any information is tantamount to saying the populace can't deal with reality - which is as much as saying the population cannot govern itself.

Publishing bin Laden's statements is in fact an affirmation of the USA's (& rest of the world's) population to understand what is going on - it is an affirmation that regular people can and do act like thoughtful adults. That's a healthy thing.

Not publishing bin Ladin's statements IMHO amounts to saying the people are incapable of handling their affairs. Not many people are fooled by bin Ladin's statements. Those that are fooled will be served by healthy discussion with people who are not.

Further, supressing information, particularly if the suppression is suggested by a government, ultimately only serves to raise questions about government intentions.

The current war is being executed with the legal support of the USA executive branch & Congress & Senate, the British gov't, the Canadian gov't (such as our checks & balances are...) But democracy, you see, must not only function, it must also be seen to function.

For democraticaly elected governments to be suggesting suppressing information calls into question whether democracy is actually functioning. That is not a good thing.

NB. I am not interested in replies questioning Bush's electoral legitimacy: had Gore got the presidency, the same issue would have arisen regarding him. I consider it a useless arguement. I wish the USA better luck next election.

NB(2). The above applies just as much to the conspiracy theories regarding the Bush family's business relationship with the bin Ladin family. If there is actually something going on there (which I doubt) then open information will bring it to light and it can be dealt with. If there is nothing going on, then open information will bring that to light as well and the theories can be put to rest. No information will perpetuate a state of uncertainty and possibly lead to a crisis of confidence in a president who likely has nothing very unusual ;-) to hide.

'Clause

Report this post as:

Secret Messages In Video

by . Wednesday, Oct. 17, 2001 at 7:31 AM

People - the BROADCAST of the video was feared to contain secret messages. Obviously hand signals or code words (in the native tongue) could transmit orders that woud be very difficult to "pick-up", but if you were one of Bin-laden's own, it would be as easy as "stealing second" to understand. The BROADCAST was asked to not be shown. That's as far as the intended censorship went. It was an attempt not to let Bin-laden use the networks for his own secret messages. Drop this issue, move on to another topic.

Report this post as:

too complex to count on broadcast

by budding Wednesday, Oct. 17, 2001 at 2:09 PM

If I were a terrorist I would rely on a more sure-fire method of delivering my secret messages - like e-mail or cell phones for example - rather than relying on something so public that everyone could conjecture, using pre-determined codes and hope that they are interpreted correctly.

The real problem with all this 'secret message' dialogue is that it presumes that bin Laden is directing everything from his cave. In point of fact his direction is unnecessary.

Report this post as:

Good Point, But...

by . Wednesday, Oct. 17, 2001 at 7:07 PM

Up until a few weeks ago, the thought of planes being used as missles and letters being used as bio-bombs were relatively unthought of. Today, they are very present fears. The assumptions you make, I believe, would have made better sense in a time gone by. It seems now, every precaution needs to be taken, and no opportunities for more damage, given.

In addition, please notice I was making the point that there is no "real" censorship in this issue. The message is okay for mass consumption, it just seems that the US Gov doesn't want the actual convayance of the message to be witnessed, for the fears of the possible unknown messages contained.

Report this post as:

no more censorship

by please Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001 at 3:20 AM

well why can't they just play the audio then on the tv with a still picture... ?

Report this post as:

Hidden Messages? Balderdash!

by johnk Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001 at 3:23 AM

That's the most bogus argument yet. Even if there were messages, they could have turned the video into a "slideshow" and broadcast only a translation. The messages would have been lost.

The "secret messages" are probably being transmitted via the internet on generic websites with messages hidden in the graphics.

I think the real goal was to discourage presenting their message and showing their faces. It humanizes them.

Report this post as:

The things we will do in the name of security

by insecure Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001 at 5:14 AM

Just listen to ourselves sometimes the way we can rationalize any action in the name of greater security. I'm beginning to wonder if we ever had security and that the events of S11 only achieved a shattering of the illusion. Now we are worried about secret messages and inadequate powers of surveillance and holding people in detention long enough to establish guilt and more racial profiling. We have gone made with security concerns. What is it we were trying to protect? I don't remember? Was it our beloved Bill of Rights? I hope not.

The path we are treading will not bring us greater security and I defy anyone to explain how they think this might be accomplished through the elimination of our dearly held freedoms and the bombing of distant lands. It seems to me that we are only pissing off more people. I thought we had enough enemies to deal with already? And the worst of it is that current policy will produce something of a self-fulfilling prophecy: our actions will create yet more insecurity which will then provoke a belligerent response which will be used for justification of yet more violence and yet more restrictions on our civil liberties. We will not be made more secure, we only speed up our own end.

Report this post as:

new world chaos

by kevin Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001 at 5:22 AM
kevhoffer1@aol.com

although yes, we are facing all kinds of new tactics, the idea that he is actually using a video for secret messaging seems a little odd, and VERY easy to work around. I think it makes our government look a little stupid ("those crafty Arabs might be slippin' somethin' by us, dagnabbit"). It does speak to propoganda and once again, places too much power in some dude in a cave. With the Vietnam war, our gov realized the power of the media in its humanization of the enemy. War cannot be waged anymore against a "fellow" human, if they are allowed to be depicted as such. This statement by Bin Laden paints him as some religous nut, WAY too much like our own (Falwell, et al.), instead of the Hitler they want to make him out to be.

k

Report this post as:

All Well and Good!!

by Craig Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001 at 10:19 AM
theking35uk@yahoo.co.uk

Its all well and good debating whether or not the broadcast did actually contain hidden messages, but that does not deny the fact that it very well may have done, therefore the attempts to block the video footage seems quite acceptable. However this does not take into consideration that the likelyhood of the message being intended for broadcast on western TV Channels is very minimal.

Is it not more conceivable that the desired audience of this message was able to watch it freely in the comfort of their own homes in the middle East?

i.e the message reached the people it was intended for and any hidden messages (there or not) would have been successful anyway.

Report this post as:

Thank you for your kind assistance

by Akbar Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001 at 6:41 PM

Thanks to your obstinate refusal to avoid disseminating the words of the Saladin, I have now been able to receive my orders and instructions which I will now carry out, God willing.

I will now, as a respectful majahedin, proceed to the nearest Dairy Queen and place fire beneath the feet of the infidels who consume their frozen deserts, God willing.

May his peace and love reign upon all followers of Allah.







(In these troubled times, I feel compelled to state that this is a joke! I love Dairy Queen and everyone who goes there!!)

Report this post as:

the hiden half

by b Thursday, Oct. 18, 2001 at 9:55 PM

i think that the only message that the media wants to hide is the other

side of this horrifying sad "new war" story.

any one with a bit of common sense and basic knowledge of history will know that violence only produces more violence.

besides "if" there are more instructions for this "terrorist" i'm sure there were

delivered many months ago.



Report this post as:

How to read doublespeak

by Uke Sunday, Oct. 21, 2001 at 6:44 AM

If the Bush administration was really worried about 'secret' messages in these broadcasts, asking the major media not to broadcast the messages would be completely ineffective at stopping the secret messages from getting through.

If you have an old style sattelite dish (not one of these new digital dishes) you can watch Al Jezeera. Easy, plain simple.

Since politicians don't do things without reason, the Bush administration must have had another motive. So, what was their request effective in achieving? Instead of millions of people hearing the broadcast, only those who really wanted and went out of their way to were able to.

Therefore it is difficult to conclude anything but this: the Bush administration wanted to prevent the message getting to millions of Americans. Seen in the context of the previous Bush administration's extremely effective disinformation campaign during the Gulf War, this is not unique, shocking or even suprising.

What message were they trying to prevent from getting to millions of Americans? Since most of the broadcast was very inflamatory and great material for pro-war propaganda, I belive that the message they were trying to block was this: and I paraphrase here 'we did this for a reason. We want the US out of Saudi Arabia, and we want the US support of the Israeli war on Palestine to stop. we will not stop terrorizing you until you meet these two reasonable and simple demands'. Now mix up that simple demand with lots of self serving religious crap (these terrorists are the same kind of Muslim as the Bush family is Christian: nasty, hateful, and bitter) but that's a different analysis.

Report this post as:

hahahaah

by hahahaha Monday, Oct. 22, 2001 at 3:11 AM

That's a good excuse any time you don't want to show people that the other side might have a valid point. The U.S. government is lying to us already ("'THEY' attacked us because we're a beacon of freedom" as well as other lies of Madeline Albright and Bush senior, Clinton etc and so on),therefore I don't believe it when it says it fears bin Laden 's secret messages.

Knowledge is power. Let us decide for ourselves, there isn't anything bin Laden can transmit that those who want to commit terrorism can't do themselves.





People - the BROADCAST of the video was feared to contain secret messages. Obviously hand signals or code words (in the native tongue) could transmit orders that woud be very difficult to "pick-up", but if you were one of Bin-laden's own, it would be as easy as "stealing second" to understand. The BROADCAST was asked to not be shown. That's as far as the intended censorship went. It was an attempt not to let Bin-laden use the networks for his own secret messages. Drop this issue, move on to another topic.

Report this post as:

Drop Yourself!

by tired of your official b.s.. Tuesday, Oct. 23, 2001 at 5:24 AM

What agency DO YOU represent in insisting on implicity official

interpretation of how the US handling the video broadcast. No

one is going to drop this subject just because you say so. You

don't run the discussion here. What the media/govt. did is censoreship

simple and plain. Censorship is rampant in this country right now,

even when people are intimidated into not being able to speak

the truth with all those stupid flags around. So step off and

let people speak about the indiscretions we are witnessing in the

media.

Report this post as:

taliban don't watch tv

by Ian D. Miller Tuesday, Oct. 23, 2001 at 1:15 PM
ian@mp3.com

not sure if you guys have been following coverage of the history of the taliban...but from what i understand, they don't allow televisions inside their country...they reject pretty much all technology much in the same way ahmish do. so videotaping a statement for the people of afghanistan is probably not their intentions here...the transmission was probably intended for other middle eastern nations though...i don't think it was intended for americans to watch.

that being said, i found a lot of the words that were used in this statement to be incredibly harsh...granted they are a desparate people in very bleak times...granted they are religious zealots...much in the same way jerry falwell is...but to hear them using their religion to clearly promote violence only makes arguing against our militaty actions against them harder...atleast for me personally. i still think the war is too open ending and vague...but the al queda network does not seem to be making any effort to even consider peaceful negotiations (not that any negotiations would be possible with the US government at this point...unfortunately). i can only hope that the translation wasn't 100% accurate...but to say that co-operation with christians and jews was basically a severe sin...that's scary language...

regarding the hidden messages, i think that's bogus for the reasons that other people have pointed out. watch "the seige" sometime...it's one of the better pictures on the subject of terrorist networks and it was produced by the major film studios, believe it or not... one of the basic premises is of "the cell" : a single node in the network. this cell knows virtually nothing about any other cell or the network itself. it is entirely independent...and so receiving messages in a clear form from a "higher-up" would be completely outside the notion of a cell...there is no clear "higher-up" that a cell knows about.

Report this post as:

Islam must go

by Bobak Khorramdin Friday, Oct. 26, 2001 at 1:06 PM
none 323-660-1153 none

I am an Iranian who lved in the US for the past 38 years.I have come to the understanding that religion is the opium of the masses,esprcially the opperessed.I used to be a muslem. But, a thorough study of Quran & hadiths reveal an islam that is not being presented honestly by the muslem propagandists and is not known to the majority of muslems. Islam as it is taught in Quran (Koran) and lived by Mohammad, as is reported in the hadiths(biography & sayings of the prophet) is a religion of intolerance,inequality,violence,discrimination,superstition,fenatcism,and blind faith. Islam advocates killing the non-muslem,abuses the human rights of the minorities and women.Islam expanded by jihad (holy war) and forced its way by killing the non-believers and the dissidents. Apostasy in islam is the biggest crime,punishable by death. Mohammad was a fundamentalist himself therefore fundamentalism can not be separated from true islam.Islam, which means submission,demandsfrom its followersto submit their wills and thoughts to Mohammad and his Allah, a deity that despises reason, democracy, freedom of thought and freedom of expression.I reject islam a) because of Mohammad's lack of moral and ethical fortitude and b) because of the absurdities in Quran.

a. Mohammad lived a less holy life. His lust for sex, his affairs with his maids and slave girls, his pedophilic relationship with Aisha a 9-year old child, his killing sprees, his massacre and the genocide of the jews, his slave making and trading, his assassination of his opponents, his raids and lootings of the merchant caravans, his burning of the pulm plantations, his destroying the water wells, his cursing and invoking evil on his enemies and his revenge on his caotured prisoners of war disqualfy him as a decent human being let alone the messenger of god.

b) An unbiased study of Quran shows that far from being a "miracle" that book is a hoax.Once Quran is scrutinized with rational thinking, almost every sentence proves to be false. Quran in replete with scientefic heresies, histoic blunders, mathematical mistakes, logical absurdities and grammatical errors. Could possibly the author of the Universe be as ignorant as it appears to be in Quran?

Quran tells musles to kill the disblievers wherever they find them (Q.2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q.9:123), slay them (Q.9:5), fight with them,()Q.8:65)even if they are Christians and Jews, humiliate themand impoe on them a penalty tax (Q.9:29). Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tell clearly that no other religion except Islam is accepted (Q.3:85). It relegates those who believe in Quran to hell(Q.5:11), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q.9:28). It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers untill no other religion except Islam is left (Q.2:193).It says that the non-believers go to hell and will drink boiling water(Q.14:17). It asks the muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that "they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" (Q.5:34). "as for the disbelievers", it says that "for them garments of fire shallcut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked ironrods" (Q.22:9). Quran prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (Q.9:23), (Q.3:28). Mohammad allowed the Muslimsto marry up to four views and gave them license to sleep with their slave maids and as many "captive women as they may have (Q.4:3). He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers raped up to 250,000 Bangali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religous leader decreed that Bangladeshis are unislamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women and then kill themafter calling them apostates and the enemies of Allah.

Due to Western policies, Islamic fundamentalism has been on the rise in the past few dacades, and with that terrorism, revolutions, and upheavals ensued. Millions of lives were lost and still counting. Let us pause for a moment and take a second look at Islam. We may just have made a mistake.

Report this post as:

Islam must go

by Bobak Khorramdin Friday, Oct. 26, 2001 at 1:06 PM
none 323-660-1153 none

I am an Iranian who lved in the US for the past 38 years.I have come to the understanding that religion is the opium of the masses,esprcially the opperessed.I used to be a muslem. But, a thorough study of Quran & hadiths reveal an islam that is not being presented honestly by the muslem propagandists and is not known to the majority of muslems. Islam as it is taught in Quran (Koran) and lived by Mohammad, as is reported in the hadiths(biography & sayings of the prophet) is a religion of intolerance,inequality,violence,discrimination,superstition,fenatcism,and blind faith. Islam advocates killing the non-muslem,abuses the human rights of the minorities and women.Islam expanded by jihad (holy war) and forced its way by killing the non-believers and the dissidents. Apostasy in islam is the biggest crime,punishable by death. Mohammad was a fundamentalist himself therefore fundamentalism can not be separated from true islam.Islam, which means submission,demandsfrom its followersto submit their wills and thoughts to Mohammad and his Allah, a deity that despises reason, democracy, freedom of thought and freedom of expression.I reject islam a) because of Mohammad's lack of moral and ethical fortitude and b) because of the absurdities in Quran.

a. Mohammad lived a less holy life. His lust for sex, his affairs with his maids and slave girls, his pedophilic relationship with Aisha a 9-year old child, his killing sprees, his massacre and the genocide of the jews, his slave making and trading, his assassination of his opponents, his raids and lootings of the merchant caravans, his burning of the pulm plantations, his destroying the water wells, his cursing and invoking evil on his enemies and his revenge on his caotured prisoners of war disqualfy him as a decent human being let alone the messenger of god.

b) An unbiased study of Quran shows that far from being a "miracle" that book is a hoax.Once Quran is scrutinized with rational thinking, almost every sentence proves to be false. Quran in replete with scientefic heresies, histoic blunders, mathematical mistakes, logical absurdities and grammatical errors. Could possibly the author of the Universe be as ignorant as it appears to be in Quran?

Quran tells musles to kill the disblievers wherever they find them (Q.2:191), to murder them and treat them harshly (Q.9:123), slay them (Q.9:5), fight with them,()Q.8:65)even if they are Christians and Jews, humiliate themand impoe on them a penalty tax (Q.9:29). Quran takes away the freedom of belief from all humanity and tell clearly that no other religion except Islam is accepted (Q.3:85). It relegates those who believe in Quran to hell(Q.5:11), calls them najis (filthy, untouchable, impure) (Q.9:28). It orders its followers to fight the unbelievers untill no other religion except Islam is left (Q.2:193).It says that the non-believers go to hell and will drink boiling water(Q.14:17). It asks the muslims to slay or crucify or cut the hands and feet of the unbelievers, that they be expelled from the land with disgrace and that "they shall have a great punishment in world hereafter" (Q.5:34). "as for the disbelievers", it says that "for them garments of fire shallcut and there shall be poured over their heads boiling water whereby whatever is in their bowls and skin shall be dissolved and they will be punished with hooked ironrods" (Q.22:9). Quran prohibits a Muslim to befriend a non-believer even if that non-believer is the father or the brother of that Muslim (Q.9:23), (Q.3:28). Mohammad allowed the Muslimsto marry up to four views and gave them license to sleep with their slave maids and as many "captive women as they may have (Q.4:3). He himself did just that. This is why anytime a Muslim army subdues another nation, they call them kafir and allow themselves to rape their women. Pakistani soldiers raped up to 250,000 Bangali women in 1971 after they massacred 3,000,000 unarmed civilians when their religous leader decreed that Bangladeshis are unislamic. This is why the prison guards in Islamic regime of Iran rape the women and then kill themafter calling them apostates and the enemies of Allah.

Due to Western policies, Islamic fundamentalism has been on the rise in the past few dacades, and with that terrorism, revolutions, and upheavals ensued. Millions of lives were lost and still counting. Let us pause for a moment and take a second look at Islam. We may just have made a mistake.

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The "hidden message" and so on

by joe Thursday, Jan. 03, 2002 at 8:24 PM

Well, I read this debate and I saw so much bulshit. I also read good thougths. This is normal, life is like this: good and bad. Anyway, I don't want hold the truth, I just want to say what I think.

First of all, I am against terrorism and I do not support any kind of terror, violence or war. Nothing justify WTC, Shabra, Chatila, holocausts, CIA terror in Latin American... Yes, justice should be done. Therefore, all these crimes commited by the Muslins, United States (CIA), Israel and whatever, they should be all punished.

1- There is no hidden message in this video. The problem in this video is the truth. Excepting those religious crap, that taliban guy (Al Qaeda, whatever...) says the truth about US international policy. Let's be frank, US govt represents huge corporations, arm industries, Israel... The Afeghan disgrace started with CIA conspiring against a harmless socialist government in Afghanistan. That government wanted to nationalize everything (oil?), to send girls to school and women to work. Then, the CIA and Pakistan trained those Muslins to terrorize this socialist government. The Russian tried to help, but US sent more arms and support. The Russians were defeat, the socialist president and all his govt were hanged on the streets. After that, started a civil war, the Northern Alliance had a fight with the Taliban and lost it. 2 million people were killed, and Americans didn't care, didn't know... Now, with WTC, Americans discovered a country called Afghanistan.

If you were an Palestine, Iraq or Afghan kid, if you have your entire family killed in one of US bombings, CIA plots or Israeli attacks, you would, at least, agree with Bin Laden.

So, this Taliban statement says what CNN don't tell you. American people is pretty alienated, don't read good newspapers, don't speak other languages and many have no idea of what is going on outside their city. Americans know a lot about hollywood stars, weather, NFL... but they don't know what US govt and its corporations are doing in their names, overseas.

WTC was the result of a very wrong, really bad and totally evil international policy, in which do not serve American people at all (perhaps, Americans enjoy cheap gas, but I preffer to pay US a gallon than live in constant fear). Anyway, innocent people always pay the price, anywhere. Therefore, the hidden message is what CNN will never tell you: the truth about US international policies. The "hidden message" is what undermines the US and its "war on terrorism".

2- Yes, religion is an opium for the ignorant. Fundamentalist Christians and Jews are idiot fanatics too. Don't blame the Muslins for everything. Remember that you have KKK and other kinds of Christian idiots.

3- I have not seem, yet, any good evidence that Al Qaeda (cave dudes?) was behind the WTC attacks. I saw, by the news and logic, that the bioterrorism (Anthrax mail) was done by Americans ("lone wolf"?). So, if they spead Anthrax on the US media and govt, WTC could be done by another Mc Veigh. Why not.

Well, when talking about it, the public mind uses say: "Mc veigh people are coward (I agree), they would not kill themselves in a suicide mission. It must have been done by fanatic muslins".

However, those kids at Columbine high school, they killed themselves too. Were they coward or not? Also, all those airplanes, used in the attacks, could be driven by computers (yes, 757, 767, and 777, are automatic, they fly without pilot). An floppy disk, a virus, a hacking thing could drive those planes into the WTC. Did CNN talk about it?

Therefore, I found very weird, at the first day, when the investigation hadn't even started yet, George Bush pointing the finger to the Muslin world and declaring a "crusade" without any concrete evidences. Now, the evidence is a suspicious video, very easy to create, very hard to find, with Bin Laden talking crap. Oh my God, how can the greatest power in the world justify the WW3 with a video like that? How can Americans believe in it? Do they want to believe? Where is the hidden message? Where is the hidden truth? Maybe, we will never know.

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Tailgate Party

by 7'Moustache Thursday, Feb. 07, 2002 at 7:55 PM
csd@7FootMoustache

I am tired of this goddamn tailgate party. We are humans first. Why are we forgetting that? We don't have anything to win, every step towards anything but peace is a loss. What is so hard to understand about that? Everyone has a right to say what they want to say. I mean isn't that what this great nation of freedom was founded on?

Have you ever stopped to think about how retarded (sorry PC folks, but I'm making a point) it is to think that it is a freedom to say what you want to say? We have mouths and minds. Use them. Stopping this group from talking only adds to the confusion and the misplaced patriotism of hate.

DO NOT MISPLACE FEAR WITH PRIDE. We are all afraid. Let's blatently admit that, and allow everyone to admit that. Let everyone talk, listen and empathize. Do I sound too idealist? Maybe I am, but it sure feels a hell of a lot better than being ignorant.

Realize that power causes lies. There is a lot of personal pride in insecure people powering all war. Screw right and wrong. Realize if you are going to live in that eternal conundrum that anytime you are calling something right or wrong, you are causing wrong.

Practice compassion. Listen to this man, and goddamnit if you aren't going to listen at least let others.

If the effort for peace had a tailgate party like that last State of the Union Address (I still can't get over a standing ovation over "NOW THEY ARE RUNNING FOR THEIR LIVES") we'd be going in the direction I think we all really want. And don't give me that "I believe in peace" along with the "We tried talking and that didn't work." shpeal. That is giving up. And I don't think I want a world where we have given up.

Of course that's just my opinion, I could be wrong,

--7'Moustache

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