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Thanks guys, I can use the business! Hey, I could even use the free advertising if you guys want to picket in front of MY place!!! Free lattee to the best costume!!!

It's great to see a community stand up to a corporation. This country is in desperate need of a strong corporate opposition, and this is a perfect local example of what can be done.

Starbuck$ is a corporation that has destroyed small businesses, exploits foreign labor, and uses tainted milk products. THey are very worthy of the opposition they have been getting.

Their coffee tastes GREAT!!!! We can't have THAT now can we? Forget free enterprise and competition, they are SO good it is ONLY right to knock them down a bit, don't you agree??? Forget that many of the locations are independently owned by, GADS...little people!#%&... Hey, how come we're not seeing BOZO the CLOWN costumes??

Starbucks wont be satisfied until they eliminate all compitition and there are no choices left. These idiots who post here about "free enterprise" never seem to mention the fact that the small business owners dont stand a chance next to the giant multi nationals. Starbucks represents the elimination of choice and the continuing process of conformity.

Obviously, when Starbucks finally comes into OB, they will become a positive and responsible community partner that helps to reinforce our very eclectic and diverse community. They will support literacy, education programs, environmental concerns and do everything they can to be a member of the community. Just look at their website... it tells the story!

move to Russia pal

You really don't have to drink the coffee. Continue going to Java Joes or where you like to get your coffee. The only way Starbucks will affect our local shops... is if you stop buying their coffee. Think logically people!

its only a coffee shop, idiot.

OB is one of the last places to escape McDonaldization. Starbucks coming to town will just open the door to help spread the corporate virus that kills all the mom and pop shops. Starbucks has more than enough money, what ever happened to fair competition? These small business cannot compete with a massive corporation like Starbucks. Besides the fact that they exp;oit and alienate their workers! duh!

OB is one of the last places to escape McDonaldization. Starbucks coming to town will just open the door to help spread the corporate virus that kills all the mom and pop shops. Starbucks has more than enough money, what ever happened to fair competition? These small business cannot compete with a massive corporation like Starbucks. Besides the fact that they exp;oit and alienate their workers! duh!

... are some people so angry at others who voice an opinion about what happens in the community they live in? When did I become a "looser"? There are many places in San Diego where Starbucks would be welcome, there must be because I understand there are already 60 of them.
And i'm sure there are communities in San Diego that would object to some of the businesses we have in OB, The Black, the International Youth Hostel. And that's OK, there's no reason why Coronado should be forced to have a "F Street" if the people don't want it.

You ask, "what happened to fair competition?" Well, isn't it fair for Starbucks to try and compete in OB? Isn't it fair for them to provide a service in hopes that people will buy coffee from them?

Mom and pop shops do have it tough in a market competing against national companies, yet they will win if the consumer's want their coffee instead of a franchise's.

The only place blame can "fairly" be placed is on the public at large. They are after all the reason starbucks "has enough money already..."

ENOUGH ALREADY!!! Is the real "monster" the protesters are trying to kill REALLY camoflaged as STARBUCKS??? Or they just the easy target??? And the protesters are upset about WHAT???? That they use "tainted" milk???...I got news for you buddy, all milk is "tainted" unless you are getting it straight from the nipple...

Enough about Starbucks already, leave then alone!!! The image you folks have managed to paint for yourselves are of a bunch of bullies, going after a coffee shop of all places! People are smart enough to not buy coffee from them is it truly peeves them, just like they can always turn the channel like I'm sure they did everytime the news flashed you clowns on the screen...

I agree with Busman!

As far McDonaldization... Compare 60 Starbucks in San Diego County (not the city) to nearly 1000+ McDonalds. Starbucks is hardly taking over. Obviously they only go into select communities where they can be successful and they can contribute to the community. They also hire from within the community.

There are bigger issues in OB other than coffee! Why is this corporation the poster child when RiteAid, Union Bank and even Jack in the Box already coexist? None of these other companies have a track record that even comes close to Starbucks in either education or environmental issues.

http://www.obgo.org/starbucks.htm brings up some very valid concerns over $tarbuck$' entry into o.b.:

"Local residents oppose Starbucks for many reasons. They are paying almost double the average rent on Newport Avenue. If other land owners charge this rent to their tenants. Coupled with the increasing costs of the energy crisis it won't be long before all the local businesses are forced out... Starbucks also faces criticism for it's notorious predatory business practices, exploitation of child labor in Guatemala and elsewhere, marketing of pesticide-laden, environment-destroying products, use of packaging products produced by prison labor, its 193 million dollars per month sales, its unwillingness to implement its own phony "code of conduct" policy, and its unrelenting effort to locate everywhere belie its "friendly" image..."

I've never really thought of "RiteAid, Union Bank and even Jack in the Box" as places where local artists could present their work. Have you? To some of us, coffee houses share a deep connection with local art, culture, etc...

Massage for cshorne: If those are really your issues with Starbucks then simply have you and your followers buy your coffee elsewhere, period...Why advocate swarming the individual locations to harass the working stiffs who are working there so they can pay their bills like the rest of us working class, why bother them???? And what about all the KMARTS that carry the Kathy Lee stuff??? Or just about every single entity out there? If you played the Kevin Bacon game with any of them you'd end up at some point that we all could disagree with! Time to pack it up and move along to somewhere else, and take your spray bottles and baggies of excrement with you!!!!

...in regards to cshome777,the truth is that starbucks is paying the market rate for their lease, about $1.50 perf oot and that includes the parking lot. It would be helpful if OBGO would get the facts right and were a bit more truthful, instead of a group of narrow minded, exclusionary, hipocritical bullies, whose only technique is shouting down the opposition, instead of listening.

I don't know how much Starbucks is paying for their
space. But certainly, they are capable of paying a great
deal more to acquire prime real estate than any local
competitor, if they are like any of the other big chains.

The problem with most of the procorporate arguments
that get made time and time again, what makes them
nonresponsive, is that the quality or appeal of a product
or service for its price is but one factor, often not the
most crucial one, in its competitiveness. Every big chain
knows this.

Consider but one such "extraneous" factor: The single most
crucial factor in big chain success is presence. Observe
any street corner in a typical American city, overrun
with big chains. The big chains have monopolized every
one of them. And it's also no coincidence that the very
biggest industry of all, the auto, petrochemical, and
allied industrial complex, has the biggest monopoly of
all on our public spaces.

Space in a city is a limited resource. Under our form
of capitalism, this space is permitted to be monopolized
by, and the price is permitted to be set by, the highest
bidder. Those with capital achieve an enormous advantage
over poorer competitors. Any credible mathematical model
of traffic flows in a city will show that the volume of
flow past any point goes down rapidly as the distance from
the street corner goes up.

In a truly fair market, we would not permit the
monopolization of public space by those with the most
capital. And fortunately, localities still retain enough
control of such matters through zoning laws to exercise
the public will in favor of fair markets and against
corporate monopolism. They should do so.

in response to mr berliner: I am sure Starbucks was once a small indepedent type business that because of a fine product and customer service grew into the large compnay it is today. If the product and the customer service were to deteriorate than so would the demand for Starbuck's coffee. Why is a succesful well run, responsible company such a "threat' to Ocean Beach and the OB lifestyle,
( whatever that is). If the "character" of Ocean Beach is threatened by a Starbucks Coffee Shop, than there isn't much to that character.

You people who keep on posting this bullshit about how we should leave starbucks alone and that they are not a threat truly make me sick. You obviously are just so tainted by capitalism that you cannot see these virus coporations true intentions. The only motivation these faceless monsters have is profit, exploitation, and greed. It's so blatantly apparent everytime they open up another one of these chains they're always doing it near the local independent coffee shop. These cut throat tactics put people out of jobs and ultimately drive people into poverty. So we will not give up this fight against this out of control machine called capitalism and next time you see us clowns on tv just remember were out there striving for real social change and your just sitting there apathetically rotting in front of your one eyed monster....

Mr Berliner is right. It is true that small business can grow and eventually become a Starbuck$. That is the American Dream that keeps people buying into the system.
The fact is the odds are stacked way against you when you do not come from money.

$tarbuck$ is just another corporation trying to destroy the competition and monopolize the market. Corporations have been merging more and more recently, created more marketing and strategic alliances. The power is held by the few people that control these multinational conglomerates. They have hte money and the power within America's system to take control over many aspects of our society.

Musolini defined facism as control by corporations... and that's the direction we are heading.

Again, protestor + morons= PROTONS...What the hell are you talking about and who are you to come into this city and spread YOUR fascist stuff? Get a life and get otta here at the same time, pack it up and take your show to the road, moron. You are spewing trivial nonsense without anything to back your play. You are wasting our time and really your time too. Too bad we ran you out on a rail!

in response to rob: you are one pathetic loser. get your head out of your ass and smell the COFFEE

in response to rob: you are one pathetic loser. get your head out of your ass and smell the COFFEE

First- let me say thanks to everyone who made Tuesday night possible. It is so wonderful to witness what can happen when people take the time to understand a situation and act on that information.

To those who voice concern for the demise of free enterprise and assume that those opposed to Starbucks must be communists, I'm afraid you are missing some important points.

1. It is Starbucks' policy to occupy an area and put others out of business, not through fair competition, but by over-bidding for the leases of existing coffee shops. The only choice they want you to have is which Starbucks you'll patronize.

2. To my understanding, Starbucks is not comprised of independently owned franchises. Rather, it is a centrally owned corporation. (Check out their website, I believe they make this clear.) If no one in Ocean Beach chose to patronize the store, this corporation would not suffer. Instead, they could sustain losses in that location until they managed to put local shops out of business (by buyiung out leases and driving up rents)- creating a virtual monopoly.

3. It's not just a coffe shop. Starbucks is the test case for other multi-nationals (McDonald's and Krispy Kreme are already very interested). When these businesses come in, Ocean Beach will become another strip mall community and OBceans will be pushed out. If you think rents are high now, just wait!

4. Despite the company's PR, their actual business practices are horrendous.

-They have CUT employee wages to facilitate expansion while they were raking in record profits.

-Starbucks has also been accused of firing older (we're talking 40 here folks!) workers.

-And they are notorious for keeping workers part time in order to deny them benefits.

-They have closed production plants that have chosen to unionize. It is my understanding that they currently use prison labor to manufacture their containers, etc.

-Despite their enourmous profits, Starbucks does not provide a living wage to their coffe producers. In a June 25th Newsweek article, the company boasts of their $1 per pound guarentee- the price they pay to the producers who made their $629 million dollars in sales possible in the second quarter! These practices have driven growers into poverty.

In other words, Starbucks is incredibly greedy. The concerns over genetically modified ingredients stem from the same corporate attitude. Starbucks is simply amoral, their only concern is the bottom line. To that I say, "No thanks, I'd rather not participate, no matter how good your coffe is or how much you pour into PR".

If you still think Starbucks is 'just a little coffe shop' and an example of 'free enterprise' pick up NO LOGO by Naomi Klein- unless you're afraid to seriously think about the world we live in.

Seana McGinley
Ocean Beach CA
smcginle@weber.ucsd.edu

Interesting... though we are presented with an opportunity to share our identity and email, only 1 person in favor of the big 'bucks' chose to do so... hmmm.... very interesting. Seana McGinley OCEAN BEACH

Couple points: Name me one mom and pop coffee shop that has full time employees and pays them benefits. Didn't think so. And the wages those poor poor prisoners earn goes mostly to a victim restitution fund, so those villainous people who made the prisoner rape or rob them can get some compensation. And, lastly, let me tell you a little story about coffee shops in another part of our fair city, Kensington. Ever been to Kensington Coffee? That's where I used to go daily. That is until Starbucks came in across the street. Truth is, I tolerated Kensington Coffee. Its not very good coffee, but that was all that was there. Hmm, sounds like a monopoly...Starbucks just tastes better, so it wins my business. Prices at both shops suck, but an addiction is an addiction. The better cup o'joe will always win.

The main point here is corporate greed. That simple.

Mom and Pop shops may not be able to offer full time wages and traditional benefits- they often offer other forms of compensation that can't be measured in dollars and cents... ever see the kids hanging out with their parents at Little Chef on days when school is out? And I know several small businesses that front $ for unexpected expenses... Starbucks can offer better compensation, and chooses not to- why? To maximize profits. That simple.

As far as prison labor goes, if you aren't concerned for the exploitation of that population (and please remember- most criminals are imprisoned for non-violent, often drug related offenses), think a little deeper... the wages for prisoners are incredibly low... this skirts minimum wage requirements, and lowers wages for everyone. Capitalism 101- low wages in one sector of the work force brings down wages for everyone. Starbucks didn't choose this workforce for some altruistic purpose. Corporate profit at the expense of communities. That simple.

And you needent worry about that pesky Kennsington coffee anymore- I learned last night that Starbucks bought out their lease. Don't worry about needing to make choices either- corporate culture will make them for you. You can live inside your corporate bubble, undisturbed by the exploitation... for a while anyway. Soon they'll make it to you, to your job... McHospital anyone?

Seana McGinley
Ocean Beach

BTW- if you don't understand the inner workings of capitalism and the significance of keeping wages low in one sector of the work force, think about how incredibly poor most southern whites were during slavery... (a system most of them were foolish enough to support and even police! any similarities here?)

And speaking of addictions, how many realize that Starbucks has a 'strategic partnership' with Phillip Morris? (Not to mention Pepsico... ie. Taco Bell, KFC... bye bye Ortegas and Livingstons...)

Seana

First of all Seana, you can't even spell "coffe" it is COFFEE. Take your ignorance and lies away from the people who just want a responsible company in OB.

Secondly, no one is going to mention their real name on a site like this when people who support Starbucks (the silent MAJORITY of OB) have windows broken, cars vandalized, threatening phone calls from people who won't leave their names... If that is the ONLY way to get your fellow community members to agree to your ridiculous lies and immoral tactics, then I pray that Starbucks comes into OB and thrives for years and years and gives money and opportunities to everyone in OB...

just to show you what a TRUE citizen of OB is supposed to do..

A true radical pushes for change, not to keep things the same to support their welfare checks and food stamps livestyle!

I'm very sorry for the typo. I didn't know we were being graded on this.

You guys are the real bullies here. Just look at the comments above. Who is throwing names and unsupported accusations around?

Have you even seen the group? Comments like this one make me certain that there are plants on the site who have never even been in OB. While the Green Store has been threatened due to this issue, I am unaware of any threats from the group, or any violent actions on their part. I can't be responsible for everyone in OB that's mad about this, or the enemies you people make elsewhere. (Which, from your attitude, I assume are many.)

When did I ask you for welfare or food stamps? I believe I was speaking of a living wage! Keeping workers poor means people need government assistance- so the logic actually works the other way around. When businesses pull their weight in the community, fewer social programs are necessary.

Stop spewing garbage. My not buying your corporate line has nothing to do with the accusations you lodge. Try to stay on topic. I know it's difficult when your position is so indefensible.

Seana

seana, this is America, where you have the right to spew your inane ideas and I have the right to buy a cup of coffee at Starbucks. You and your pathetic group can intimidate, scream, stop your feet but a starbucks will open in Ocean Beach and I will be there to buy coffee, just try and stop me!!!!

To all you Starbucks supporters, you can go to a stripmaul in nearly every San Diego community for your lameass Starbucks Frappachino. No one will take that from you. But here in Ocean Beach, we pride ourselves on our beach town charm and individual character. Obceans dislike Pacific Beach and do not want to become like it. Locating a Starbucks in OB is one more step along that path which many of us do not wish to take. Past missteps in OB would have been the stub jetty, the boardwalk, the commercial hotels and development, Winchell's, the Exxon station, and so on. If the the real estate speculators had it their way we would be another PB or La Jolla. So 'fuck that'! And 'FUCK STARBUCKS', too!

Hello....are we on a school yard playground here?! Listening to all the name-calling, labeling and accusations really disheartens one in regards to the maturity of Obceans! (If we are all Obceans speaking here) Why insult one another? Big corporations would like nothing more than to turn our community against one another. Please see past all that nonsense and stand strong as One Community.

However polar our individual views may be let us not let the real issue slip through our fingers.....
OCEAN BEACH IS WANTED TERRITORY FOR BIG CORPORATIONS! Our irreplaceable community is one of the last few frontiers not yet coveted by profit-hungry corporations. What an ego-boost for ANY corporation able to penetrate that strong-hold!

Once a corporate entity resides on Newport Avenue....prepare yourself for some major changes! Change is good. Change in a positive direction, that is. But replacing our local coffee shops with Corporate ($tarbuck$) coffee, replacing our local restaurants with Corporate (T.G.I.F., Taco Bell, Jamba Juice, McDonalds, Burger King), restaurants, replacing our local retail shops with Corporate (GAP, Target, Home Depot, Old Navy, Bath & Body) retail shops, CANNOT be honestly interpreted as a change in a positive direction for Ocean Beach! The atmosphere and appearance of Ocean Beach will be lost. And once lost, perhaps never to return again. OUR community will be a mirror-image of any airport you have ever been, a mirror-image of any mall you have ever been, a mirror-image of any town or city - anywhere in the country - you have ever been. We will lose the community feeling of Ocean Beach, a treasure we should acknowledge, accept, appreciate and embrace with ALL OUR might.

You see, $tarbuck$ is just one of many, many, corporations which should be kept out of Ocean Beach. $tarbuck$ is currently OUR immediate threat. The next corporate giant will be welcomed with the same resistance. Some folks like, perhaps even love, $tarbuck$ coffee, Taco Bell burrittos, Jamba Juice smoothies, McDonalds burgers, Home Depot deals......whatever....fine.....those corporate giants are available to you. No one is taking anyone's "free choice" away - except the big corporations, once they monopolize a community.

Some folks state there are already banks and Jack-in-the-Box, etc.. Yes, very unfortunate. But the banks are not in DIRECT competition with our local merchants, and Jack-in-the-box was built in the 50's BEFORE anyone ever even thought they would become as wide-spread and corporate as they've grown. Just because Our community as been penetrated by a few does not mean that WE should stand aside and let the entire personality of Ocean Beach be eaten, to then be regurgitated by pompous executives, miles and miles away who have absolutely NO interest nor concern of ANY individual in our community, but focus their entire interest on gaining a profit to show what successful businesspeople they are.

Some folks state that moving $tarbuck$ onto the Newport Ave site will clean it up. Please keep in mind that 1. ANY business moving into the Newport Ave site would clean it up and 2. why is Torrey Pines Property Management not being held accountable for keeping their property cleaned up? The Newport Ave site should have always been maintained. This is a ridiculous crutch to use.

Then, at times, some folks state that Ocean Beach is not "safe". If that is the feeling, then perhaps one should not reside and/or frequent the area. If it is truly thought that Corporatizing the community will make is safer....I state.....Open your eyes to the real world!!! Look around, there are plenty examples! A community occupied by non-existent, face-less owners is a community occupied by strangers! These corporations are NOT in touch with the community. These corporations are NOT concerned with the people who make up the community. These corporations are NOT concerned of environmental issues of the community. NO MATTER WHAT THEIR "BOOK-TAUGHT" PUBLIC RELATIONS FOLKS TELL US!!! Come on....that's their job for crying out loud!!! To portray the corporations they work for with an image of "all goodness"! That is their job...whether they actually believe it themselves or not, that doesn't matter....that is still their job. It is OUR job, as a well informed community to be intelligent enough to see beyond the facade of nonsense being fed by board rooms of corporate executives.

Ocean Beach is well worth the fight to keep out of the hands of corporate takeover. We need to stand up for our community now....not cry about what we HAD later.

Wishing you ALL a GREAT day! Kim. :-)

We can't let Starbucks in! 'Cause what does coffee attract? COPS! And with more cops on Newport Av drinking coffee, it could be very difficult for me to get my Heroin fix from the local street dealer. And what if they buy up the lease of The Black? I might accidently break my meth pipe or bong - Where am I gonna get another? Tell me!! We'll have all these clean people coming in, spending money on stuff, it might make my skinny, tattooed, pierced, unwashed, transient, not-really-a-local-anyway, unemployed, no redeaming social value ass feel a little inferior.

So far you guys have called us liars without pointing out inconsistencies in our information, implied that we are in the minority despite public displays to the contrary, and impugned anyone objecting to Starbucks as a social drain.

News flash- I'm a PhD candidate who teaches writing at a local university. (I encourage my students to present evidence to support well constructed arguments... big surprise that I'm having difficulty dealing with you folks.) You are talking to people who work full time and are well educated. They've ventured outside your tiny corporate reality and taken the responsibility to think for themselves.

Try it. Tell me about your argument; try to make substantive points without putting others down or wrapping yourself in the flag. What is ever so inconsistent is that the freedom you claim to embrace is under threat from the corporation you blindly support.

And again, I question your knowledge of the group opposed to $tarbuck$' entry- the picture you paint is wholly inconsistent. I'll ask once more that we try to stay on topic and avoid stooping to gross generalizations. I haven't called upon the vapidity and shallowness typically attributed to corporate drones and yuppies.

Seana

Maybe I need to reconsider my position on Starbucks. At first I believed that Starbucks would just provide one more place to buy a cup of rather expensive coffee. Those truly loyal patrons of the other coffeehouses would avoid Starbucks like the plague. The only people that would frequent Starbucks would be the poor saps of the community that wants a cup of coffee that doesn't taste like dishwater.

Alas, I feel I have become more socially aware. It wasn't the fact that Starbucks seems to be held to a much higher standard than the other coffeehouses and restaurants (the milk issue). It wasn't the fact that Starbucks uses slave labor in the form of prison workers or child labor in Guatemalan coffee fields (forget the fact that this might be the ONLY job the child can get to save it from starvation).

The turning point for me was when one factor came to light that I simply couldn't tolerate. When I found out that Starbucks could soon be followed by a Krispy Kreme, that was it!!! Just think, to be able to get a good cup of coffee AND a good doughnut in the same town? That would be the end of OB as we know it.

Just to set things straight for the PhD super-intellect...the prisoners work for a variety of reasons while they are locked up...for instance, to fight the boredom, or, so they can contribute to the victim restitution fund, or, to learn a new skill. Notice how i didn't say they work because they have to? If they don't want to work, they don't. And why, pray tell, would they need minimum wage when the cost of living where they live is roughly zero dollars a year? They are provided by you and me with three hots and a cot, free of charge, for the duration of their stay...so get it straight: THE PRISONERS DON'T WORK IF THEY DON'T WANT TO, AND IF THEY HAVE NO EXPENSES, THEY DO NOT NEED EVEN MINIMUM WAGE. You won't get your PhD if you keep being a closed minded, authority hating dummy.

OB will not become part of the 'plan'. OBceans have resisted the corporatization that has wrecked communities thoughout San Diego. If one lives in Ocean Beach and doesn't like this hardline stance, than one ought to rethink his/her locale. Hey there's plenty of places in SD that one can find all the Burger Kings, Starbucks, McDonalds, WalMarts they need. Places like Mira Mesa, Tierrasanta, Poway, Chula Vista, Santee so if you want all that crap than simply go there or even maybe relocate there. We don't want it here!

As for OB, this a COMMUNITY and a NEIGHBORHOOD. Not one of those commercialized 'planned communities'that are strewn about Southern California from Ventura County all the way to the Mexican Border. OB's identity is tied to the fact that its residents have resisted the change to more commercialization and community degradation.

OB is an oasis that needs protection: just a little change like rising rents hurts this town's character by forcing out those who can no longer afford.

Stand up for OB otherwise it will become a place that resembles the rest of the awful urban sprawl that most of us dread.

OB will not become part of the 'plan'. OBceans have resisted the corporatization that has wrecked communities thoughout San Diego. If one lives in Ocean Beach and doesn't like this hardline stance, than one ought to rethink his/her locale. Hey there's plenty of places in SD that one can find all the Burger Kings, Starbucks, McDonalds, WalMarts they need. Places like Mira Mesa, Tierrasanta, Poway, Chula Vista, Santee so if you want all that crap than simply go there or even maybe relocate there. We don't want it here!

As for OB, this a COMMUNITY and a NEIGHBORHOOD. Not one of those commercialized 'planned communities'that are strewn about Southern California from Ventura County all the way to the Mexican Border. OB's identity is tied to the fact that its residents have resisted the change to more commercialization and community degradation.

OB is an oasis that needs protection: just a little change like rising rents hurts this town's character by forcing out those who can no longer afford.

Stand up for OB otherwise it will become a place that resembles the rest of the awful urban sprawl that most of us dread.

hey phd... sorry our inferioir intellect can't formulate an acceptable argument to your Einstenian like logic on capitalism and corporate greed. Hey, I've got an idea, why not teach at UCSD for free or rely solely on donations from your students and their parents. I am sure that the money that pays your salary esssentially comes from the corporate whores you disdain so much. As far as sticking to the issues, OBGO can't handle the truth and their strategy is based on name-calling, false accusations, unbelievable exagerations, vandalism, goofy protests, veiled threats and the ever popular shouting down of opponents. Also, if you want to start pointing fingers, when do the protests begin at The Black, (promoting the Columbia and Mexican drug cartels), Max's 99 Cent Store, (almost every product made in China with slave labor, etc. Let me know when the protests and boycotts begin at these other locations on Newport, I have a costume all picked out.

A point that seems overlooked in this discussion is the fact that although this country professes to have a "Free Market" Capitalistic economy, we also have the political right to try to determine what is best or responsible for our local venue. The communities of San Diego have planning boards that can set the environmental and aesthetic character of a community. Nowhere that I know of is it provided for that the economic forces are paramount to the democratic political forces. (I am open to reading any citations that state the contrary.) Therefore, I believe the local planning boards and any other of our inalienable rights, (Free speech protests, Inititive, Recall, Judical redress, etc...) channels are a proper endeavor for a community or an individual to excercise thier view, aesthetic considerations, etc...
I am proud of the peacefull excercise of OBceans to assert their political will. It is very heartening to see that there are good, responsible, free thinking citizens, (not just another brick in the wall) that are not afraid to display their views.
Love those who take the time to think for themselves instead of taking the easy, lock step position spoon fed by the economic or established powers.
C. Michael Mann

in response to Mr. Java up there at the top ...

you want some real plublicity? No problem. How bout we burn the fucker down. But first we'll smash the windows and loot your francise for the coffee machines so we can sell them and give the money to the homeless. Then we'll flood your little Starbucks with some gasoline and flick it the friendly match! It'll make a grand scene! Don't ya think? You'll be on 7 o'clock news my friend! Now that's what I call plublicity!

BRING IT ON ASSHOLE!!!

Look out if satan supports Starbucks you KNOW what I think....

Before I start "Lattee" is spelled Latte- meaning milk
Second of all i work for CC's Coffee house in Plano, Texas. CC's (Community Coffee) has decied to close all stores in Texas due to "Finacial Lossess." But I blame Charbucks.

Thanks Starbucks
Thanks for opening stores across from ours
Thanks for dessicrating the art of Coffee
Thanks for buring your beans, inturn creating carbon, A CARSONENGENIC, YES IN THEROY STARBUCKS CAN GIVE YOU CANCER
Thanks for being ass-holes
Thanks you mother fuckers

Here's the deal, in no uncertain terms.
Starbucks gives ALL it's employees, including part-time, full medical.
They give ALL their employees, including part-time, paid vacation.
Absolutely NO indy coffee shop does that.
Indy coffee expolits workers.
FUCK INDY COFFEE.

However I rather like the character of OB the way it is. I don't know if McCoffee is an asset or detraction.

Oh and fresca - don't know about you but I am pro-gun rights. Starbucks supports Handgun Control. That is why I rarely visit a Starbucks anymore.

You guys are extremely crazy and awful. There's no point to say Starbucks Coffee company is evil! Coffee bring us the feeling of excitement and pleasure. And Starbucks Coffee company only help to spread this great feeling to the whole world by opening more stores. They are great and holy. Compare with you these so-called "people", Starbucks is much greater and holy. Thanks for you all stupid and naive comments, I will buy more Starbucks Coffee than usual.
Also, please remember that, Starbucks had never said to elimate all independent coffee shops! Don't make up the stories my your stupid brains!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

STARBUCKS IS GREAT!!!!
STARBUCKS IS MUCH BETTER THAN THOSE SUCKS COFFEE STORES!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE
SUPPORT STARBUCKS COFFEE

The coffee not good for speed you.
Slow responce. Bad coffee. Be plenty more good.
TRY AGAIN.

All of you just feel jealous about Starbucks Coffee Company success. Starbucks will not be defated by you sucking bitches. GO AHEAD! STARBUCKS! BEAT THOSE LOSSERS!!! STARBUCKS IS ABSOLUTELY IS BETTER THAN THE OTHERS COFFEE MAKERS( SO-CALLED) !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Why Starbucks is expensive? Mainly is because their quality is great and better than the lossers!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Ah!!!! STARBUCKS IS UNBEATABLE!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Starbucks, of course is not slow! All kinds of coffee need time to make them!!!! Don't be so foolish!!!! Navie!!!!!!!!!

What? You guys had nothing more to say? You all know that Starbucks Coffee company is unbeatable, all of your points are naive and too crazy to hear for. Thanks god that Starbucks is getting more and more revenue from all over the world! You guys had nothing to do? Ah? Set up this stupid web site, to protest a great coffee maker? You guys are just too sucks! You are the shame of Americians!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
If you had ever tried starbucks' coffee, you will change your stupid mind!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Protesting Starbucks??!! Starbucks is Evil????!!!

How do you guys come up with this stuff? The stories on these pages are sheer comic genius!!! Indymedia has to be one of the most enteraining sites on the web.

Keep up the good work - we all need a good laugh now and then.

Excuse me? What are you talking about??? So, you support Starbucks or not?????
Of course, Starbucks is NOT EVIL AT ANYWAY!!!!!!!!!!!!!

THE REAL EVIL IS THE ONE WHO BLAME STARBUCKS!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! EVIL + AWFUL = IDIOTS ( WHICH MEANS THE GUYS WHO PROTEST STARBUCKS) *_*

Beyond the fact that Starbucks offers a much better product CHEAPER than just about any indy coffee joint, the fact remains that they treat their workers MUCH better then most businesses in general, let alone coffee shops.

Where else is some kid (or adult for that matter) going to work, even PART TIME, and recieve FULL health coverage AND paid vacation?

The answer: Maybe for their Dad if they're lucky.

So before all you "scocialists" and anti-corporate types start bemoaning the existence of a new strabucks, ask the potential employees from the community if they don't mind sacrificing ALL benefits in order to keep the coffe independent.

Another example of people shooting from the hip without knowing what they're talking about.

I am talking about anyone that takes any of this nonsense seriously.

I am neither "for" or "against" Starbucks.

If you like Starbucks coffee and the company that sells it than by your coffee from them. If you don't than by it somewhere else. it's called capitalism. Let the marketplace sort out who gets to expand and who goes out of business. Not looneys with nothing better to do than dress up and protest.

"Not looneys with nothing better to do than dress up and protest."

Please don't sell them so short...

They also drummed, danced and chanted.

My bad.

Personally I wouldn't attend any protest without some good drumming, dancing, and face painting.

You guys are stupid Americans. Thanks god I'm not Americans like you foolish twits! What kinds of names are fresca and Zyprexa? You are so idiotic and stupid! Just shut up and drinks Starbucks coffee!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

That's why you're posting on an AMERICAN site in ENGLISH.

Starbucks coffee going not so well. Across the ocean did swim you to us this to tell? Slave labor taking for the beans to pick for this overpriced swill.
Cocain better as 7% solution for swim I think.

Understand you me not so well. Talks in code me thinks you do.

For hearing you I have too long be waiting! EXECUTE PLAN D2
Then hills to be run!

Hey, some of you had post the message by using my name!!! That's is not right!!! Moreover, do you guys know what are you talking about?? There are no more slaves in Africa!!!!!! Also, Starbucks Coffee is doing great, and making great profit!!!! If you guys, who against Starbucks coffee, check your coffee shops prince carefully!!!!! Starbucks price is not that so expensive, if you ever carefully compared with the others!!!! So, please use your stupid brains to check and taste carefully!!!!!!!!! AND DON'T USE MY NAME TO ADD MESSAGE, WHICH IS NOT BELONG TO ME!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Don't be so foolish Americians, Starbucks Coffee Company had employed lots of employees, if you can beat Starbucks (which is totally impossible), then thousands of your fellow will become unemployed!!!! Think about that! Just drink STARBUCKS COFFEE, and remember to taste carefully!!!! Don't be so mad to say Starbucks=evil!!! This is the words only said by the nutters!!!!! And I don't believe Americians are nutters!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Starbucks is waaay too successful. It makes losers like them look bad and that's not right, now is it?

After that, let's go picket Walmart. I'd prefer local stores where I can get ripped off.

Hey, why all of you refer the local stores????? Wait minute!!! We ate not discussing about Walmart!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Naive !!! Again!!!!!!!!

Americans are deprived of good coffee.
Starbucks coffee quality is at best, mediocre. Most of their coffee has a bitter/acid aftertaste, a hallmark of a poor roasting technique or inferior beans. Mastering roasting is not trivial.

On a speculative note, you tend to over-roast coffee beans of inferior quality to evaporate molds and oils that rose to the surface and started to oxydize. Some varieties are more prone to go bad faster than others.

Their bulk beans have often a "sweaty" appeareance, indicating they have been exposed to heat or are simply old. This will result in a "rancid butter" taste.
And to finish my bashing, Starbucks doesn't know how to serve expresso. They use styrofoam, wide-mouthed cups in which the brew will cool down in 10 seconds flat. I am exagerating of course, but my point is that expresso is a concentrated brew served at nearly boiling temperatures. If you cool it, you'll miss a lot on the flavors. If you have a lot air in contact with the liquid's surface, the delicate flavors will evaporate extremely fast. This is why in Europe expresso is usually served in ceramic, thick-walled barbie-size cups the barista pre-heats with steam.

The coffee bush is particular in the sense it has a very long harvesting period; beans of different stages of maturity are simultaneously present on the plant. It takes skilled laborers to pick only the ripe beans. A few unripe beans will unpleasantly change the taste of a batch during the roasting.

The coffee industry, which is extremely profitable, is developping GM coffee bushes that grow beans in "batches" to eliminate the guess work and can be harvested mechanically. Bad news for small growers in the world (which are the overwhelming majority of producers), it will give even more power to GM food transnationals and big agribusiness corps who can afford the expensive treatements and machinery.

Coffee is a bit like wine; there is a lot of hidden flavors in it that develop in your mouth before, during and after drinking. I am not talking of flavored coffees, these are something else. Make the experiment yourself, using un-sweetened, un-flavored coffee. Breathe in the cup before drinking (these wide cups are useful after all :)). Take a sip from it, tablespoon size, while swallowing air with it, it should somewhat spray it inside your mouth. This will evaporate the essences of coffee, remember we "taste" a lot with our nose. Then swallow and wait a few seconds. You will experience an array of flavors, mostly nutty ones.
My disappointment with Starbucks is that these flavors are just barely there. Suspisciously, when they are there, they are really "loud" and monotonic, almost like something was added to it.

I think the success of Starbucks is that they had a cunning sense to discover and fill a niche. Their cozy, well-decorated locations fullfill almost a social role; you go to Starbucks to meet people, after a movie, to read a book. You don't feel like doing these things at your local Denny's.
For a public that hasn't had better coffee for decades, Starbucks is "caviar", but I think it is time to move on. It is funny to see Starbuck's posturing as if it knows a lot about coffee, they really don't. From a European perspective Starbucks plays all the tenets of an American success: I want it fast, I want it loud, I want it at every corner. Their coffees taste like they have been blended with tons of Kenyan; African varieties are often added to inferior or insipid batches to revive them. They also pack a serious caffeine punch you don't find in South American varieties. Some people think it is good coffee because it makes them feel like after drinking a red bull can.

Not to say you can't find good coffee in the US. Personally, the best brews I enjoyed were in small, privately-owned places in San Francisco, Seattle, and NYC.

Okay, thanks for Mr.Euro brillant speech. Now, I am in Cairns. Hm... It seems that you have got a lot of research about coffee! Well, that's great! But still I think Starbucks is quite good at all!!!!! Espresso is difficult to serve, right??? But, remember that Starbucks had got lots more choice in their stores, which is better than the other small and private coffee stores. So? let's choose Starbucks Coffee!!!!
I also love coffee, and I had tried a lot in HK, as well as in Australia, still I find that Starbucks is better
!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! see you..............

I didn't think your point was any good until I saw you added all of those exclamation points!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! They make your point oh so worthwhile!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Who cares. It's coffee. People have different tastes in beverages. Buy it where you like it. Leave everyone else to descide for themselves.

I aggree, it is in the eye (or the palet) of the beholder. Just didn't want people to miss on what, in my opinion , tastes better. I don't have a problem with people liking Starbucks, I just think they are more marketing than substance and I hope people don't get fooled on their tactics.

enjoy your coffee, whatever it is.

Yeah! You are right! Coffee is the most amazing drink in this planet, so just try more before making any conclusion! Well, I like Starbucks, because I think it is convenient and more improtant is it is quite good! Well, that's my opinion. I make this kind of comment, mainly based on what I had tried!!!!!!
Just enjoy your coffee!!!! Good luck!!!!!!!!!!

I love Starbucks. I like urine too.

Attention unwashed masses we will protect you from all unauthorized thoughts.
We know what is best for you.
Let us do your thinking for you.

mmmmmmm fuck you starbucks is the shit man fuck ya'll

YOU ALL CAN SUCK MY DICK I OWN A MOTHER FUCKING STARBUCKS AND IT IS THE FUCKING SHIT I AM BLACK AND OWN MY OWN BIZNEZZ SO FUCK YA'LL

All you immature saying Fuck all the time idiots...aren't helpin much in this topic. However 'fuck' does help pointing out main points. So FUCK you all HongKong Coffee fuckersss...I am an ASIAN and you are a shame to our race. You fuckin HongKong don't know shit..bad english..motha fucka better shut ur fuckin mouth and fuck your fuckin ass with the fuckin starbucks cup ok. Well anyway..that's enough..I am neither a starbucks supporter or opposer. I know starbucks..just like many other BIG corporations sucks up businesses...But I think what makes up America is the BIG corporations that keep expanding and THE PEOPLE that protests them. It's a free country...yet both capitalism and free speech is allowed...let it be. ONCE AGAIN!!! you HongKong MothaFucka can't speak english Starbuck lova...please please please...don't ever ever ever make a shame of our own race. If you would like to bring this matter further on...please call me at 1-635-598-4521...I'll be happy enough to chainsaw ur fuckin mouth.Ohya...please forgive my languange...I don't speak good english either.

All you immature saying Fuck all the time idiots...aren't helpin much in this topic. However 'fuck' does help pointing out main points. So FUCK you all HongKong Coffee fuckersss...I am an ASIAN and you are a shame to our race. You fuckin HongKong don't know shit..bad english..motha fucka better shut ur fuckin mouth and fuck your fuckin ass with the fuckin starbucks cup ok. Well anyway..that's enough..I am neither a starbucks supporter or opposer. I know starbucks..just like many other BIG corporations sucks up businesses...But I think what makes up America is the BIG corporations that keep expanding and THE PEOPLE that protests them. It's a free country...yet both capitalism and free speech is allowed...let it be. ONCE AGAIN!!! you HongKong MothaFucka can't speak english Starbuck lova...please please please...don't ever ever ever make a shame of our own race. If you would like to bring this matter further on...please call me at 1-635-598-4521...I'll be happy enough to chainsaw ur fuckin mouth.Ohya...please forgive my languange...I don't speak good english either.

All you immature saying Fuck all the time idiots...aren't helpin much in this topic. However 'fuck' does help pointing out main points. So FUCK you all HongKong Coffee fuckersss...I am an ASIAN and you are a shame to our race. You fuckin HongKong don't know shit..bad english..motha fucka better shut ur fuckin mouth and fuck your fuckin ass with the fuckin starbucks cup ok. Well anyway..that's enough..I am neither a starbucks supporter or opposer. I know starbucks..just like many other BIG corporations sucks up businesses...But I think what makes up America is the BIG corporations that keep expanding and THE PEOPLE that protests them. It's a free country...yet both capitalism and free speech is allowed...let it be. ONCE AGAIN!!! you HongKong MothaFucka can't speak english Starbuck lova...please please please...don't ever ever ever make a shame of our own race. If you would like to bring this matter further on...please call me at 1-635-598-4521...I'll be happy enough to chainsaw ur fuckin mouth.Ohya...please forgive my languange...I don't speak good english either.

All you immature saying Fuck all the time idiots...aren't helpin much in this topic. However 'fuck' does help pointing out main points. So FUCK you all HongKong Coffee fuckersss...I am an ASIAN and you are a shame to our race. You fuckin HongKong don't know shit..bad english..motha fucka better shut ur fuckin mouth and fuck your fuckin ass with the fuckin starbucks cup ok. Well anyway..that's enough..I am neither a starbucks supporter or opposer. I know starbucks..just like many other BIG corporations sucks up businesses...But I think what makes up America is the BIG corporations that keep expanding and THE PEOPLE that protests them. It's a free country...yet both capitalism and free speech is allowed...let it be. ONCE AGAIN!!! you HongKong MothaFucka can't speak english Starbuck lova...please please please...don't ever ever ever make a shame of our own race. If you would like to bring this matter further on...please call me at 1-635-598-4521...I'll be happy enough to chainsaw ur fuckin mouth.Ohya...please forgive my languange...I don't speak good english either.