We had a server outage, and we're rebuilding the site. Some of the site features won't work. Thank you for your patience.
imc indymedia

Los Angeles Indymedia : Activist News

white themeblack themered themetheme help
About Us Contact Us Calendar Publish RSS
Features
latest news
best of news
syndication
commentary


KILLRADIO

VozMob

ABCF LA

A-Infos Radio

Indymedia On Air

Dope-X-Resistance-LA List

LAAMN List




IMC Network:

Original Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: ambazonia canarias estrecho / madiaq kenya nigeria south africa canada: hamilton london, ontario maritimes montreal ontario ottawa quebec thunder bay vancouver victoria windsor winnipeg east asia: burma jakarta japan korea manila qc europe: abruzzo alacant andorra antwerpen armenia athens austria barcelona belarus belgium belgrade bristol brussels bulgaria calabria croatia cyprus emilia-romagna estrecho / madiaq euskal herria galiza germany grenoble hungary ireland istanbul italy la plana liege liguria lille linksunten lombardia london madrid malta marseille nantes napoli netherlands nice northern england norway oost-vlaanderen paris/Île-de-france patras piemonte poland portugal roma romania russia saint-petersburg scotland sverige switzerland thessaloniki torun toscana toulouse ukraine united kingdom valencia latin america: argentina bolivia chiapas chile chile sur cmi brasil colombia ecuador mexico peru puerto rico qollasuyu rosario santiago tijuana uruguay valparaiso venezuela venezuela oceania: adelaide aotearoa brisbane burma darwin jakarta manila melbourne perth qc sydney south asia: india mumbai united states: arizona arkansas asheville atlanta austin baltimore big muddy binghamton boston buffalo charlottesville chicago cleveland colorado columbus dc hawaii houston hudson mohawk kansas city la madison maine miami michigan milwaukee minneapolis/st. paul new hampshire new jersey new mexico new orleans north carolina north texas nyc oklahoma philadelphia pittsburgh portland richmond rochester rogue valley saint louis san diego san francisco san francisco bay area santa barbara santa cruz, ca sarasota seattle tampa bay tennessee urbana-champaign vermont western mass worcester west asia: armenia beirut israel palestine process: fbi/legal updates mailing lists process & imc docs tech volunteer projects: print radio satellite tv video regions: oceania united states topics: biotech

Surviving Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: canada: quebec east asia: japan europe: athens barcelona belgium bristol brussels cyprus germany grenoble ireland istanbul lille linksunten nantes netherlands norway portugal united kingdom latin america: argentina cmi brasil rosario oceania: aotearoa united states: austin big muddy binghamton boston chicago columbus la michigan nyc portland rochester saint louis san diego san francisco bay area santa cruz, ca tennessee urbana-champaign worcester west asia: palestine process: fbi/legal updates process & imc docs projects: radio satellite tv
printable version - js reader version - view hidden posts - tags and related articles

View article without comments

Nader invested in 7000 worst corporations in the world including Occidental

by zero tolerance Sunday, Nov. 05, 2000 at 11:11 PM

Naders Traitors hve finally bumped me off the list of supporters. After seeing the video of his excuse that he has owned Fidelity for several years because he is "planning to go to an investors meeting after the election" doesn't cut it with this anti-imperialist.Is he going to go talk to all the 7000 stock holders meetings?

Nader has burned the candle at both ends for too long with me and has finally run out of wax. Accepting ads from the Republicans without a whimper of protest was bad but this is too much. He owns the Fidelity Magellan fund, a collection of the worst bunch of corporate rapists in the world. He told Pacifica : "I don't believe in not participating in the market". Fidelity is the financier of Occidental petroleum corporations explorations in U'wa lands in Columbia. Nader says he will "go to a future share holders meeting". Why did he wait years to do so? It must be nice to make a profit while claiming to do so as a portest.

Report this post as:

Nader is a capitalist. Vote Nader anyway.

by Jim Shackelford Sunday, Nov. 05, 2000 at 11:42 PM
Kandynski@cs.com

Nader is a capitalist, without a doubt, on many levels. Nonetheless voting for him messes with capitalism and trends toward rising greed.

His candidacy is not just the least of three evils, but a statement that questions various aspects of capitalism (without any actual opposition to this inane and tragically hurtful way of handling resources).

Many of the people supporting him have no intention of adopting a reformed version of capitalism. He will either live up to the better things he is saying, or other people will emerge to run for president next time. Or the Green Party will splinter and lose some votes.

Jim Shackelford

Report this post as:

Greens aren't leftists who wants to see 5%

by Robbin Da Rich Sunday, Nov. 05, 2000 at 11:59 PM

If the Greens get 5% we will be stuck with them as the new alledged "voice" of the left. They suck they are predominantly upper class white kids who have not solicited the leadership of the people who are actually in a struggle.

We need to wait for a real rev.

Report this post as:

Owning Stock Doesn't Make You An Investor

by Paul H. Rosenberg Monday, Nov. 06, 2000 at 1:12 AM
rad@gte.net

Whatever you think of Ralph Nader, this post repeats a common fallacy that people need to understand. With rare exceptions, such as when stock offerings are made specifically to raise capital, people buying stocks are *not* investing in a company, anymore than someone buying a used car is putting money into the manufacturers pocket. The money paid for a stock purchased in the stock market is paid to the previous owner. You are, essentially, doing nothing more than betting on the future performance of a company. (Holding a large enough chunk to give you potential influence is another matter.) Doug Henwood does a good job of explaining this (along with a whole lot else) in his book, *Wall Street: How It Works and for Whom*.

There's a lot of emotionalism on all sides in this election, and it's always quite comforting to think that you alone have taken a pure moral position. But this kind of thinking usually comes at the price of turning off your mind, either in whole or in part. For my money, this is pretty small beer compared to everything that Ralph Nader has done over the decades. Tens of thousands of people are alive today, just because of auto safety features that he brought about.

Whether that means you should vote for him for President is another matter entirely. But it does seem that this post exhibits two unfortunate characteristics. First, it's based on a fallacy that equates stock ownership with investing. Second, it fails to put the alleged offense into any sort of sensible relationship with the rest of the candidate's record. I would argue that whatever conclusions you come to it's important to avoid fallacies and to put things into persepctive, giving more weight to that which is more important. This is why I try to add stuff to this site that brings a range of different information and arguments together, so that people can think these things through for themselves.

I sense in this post a desire to have Nader be a superhuman pillar of virtue, a desire which has been frustrated by the information that the poster refers to. But this desire, however understandable, is utterly unrealistic. No one and no thing is utterly perfect. We're all imperfect in some respect or other. Some anarchists are infected with a similar unrealistic expectation of perfection. For them, the act of voting would sully their perfection, it's an unclean act.

I think it's very important for all of us to learn ways to preserve the passion and commitment of our moral vision without making ourselves prisoners of unrealistic expectations. Perfection is a direction, it's not anyone's property. It never can be. We experience perfection in the moment, but the minute we try to possess it, that very attempt destroys it. This is not an excuse for tolerating evil. It's advice about avoiding unintentionally doing evil in the name of pure good.

Report this post as:

It's just too bad Nader isn't Jesus Christ

by jc Monday, Nov. 06, 2000 at 6:12 AM
jclark_23@hotmail.com

I've become mighty sick of the high moral ground taken by would-be far Leftists attacking Ralph Nader and the Green Party. I suspect that these people cling so devoutly to their utopian "vision" at the price of unwillingness to stomach even the least uncomfortable of political coalitions, simply because they enjoy their holier-than-thou position more than they are willing to face its consequences. In a society that places such a high premium on individuality, it is no wonder that there are those whose greatest pleasure is to be excluded by others. I do not wish to critize the intentions of these political philosophers who dare call themselves revolutionaries. I just wish they would study the countless examples in history wherein a leadership has attempted to force its vision on its people. I can think of two major genocides this has resulted in (the Nazi Holocaust and Pol Pot's Cambodia). Do not buy that the hard Left is trying to put power into the hands of the people. The best we can hope for in society is a stalemate of power, in which corporations are accountable and yet people are allowed to interact with one another without Power and its spurious claims to moral superiority breathing down their necks.

I'm voting for Nader because he is making an appeal not to Power's violence but its conscience, which is its only weakness.

It is possible to find fault with anyone. I just ask that the poster of the original message to consider how similar puritanism in any form is to Fascism. Only a capitalist of beliefs would seek to purge the world of capitalism.

Report this post as:

© 2000-2018 Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by the Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Running sf-active v0.9.4 Disclaimer | Privacy