Perhaps it's not so long or strange a trip from political terrorist to religious fundamentalist.

The secular terrorist, it might even be said, has become something of an endangered species these days, when so many of the world's violent struggles have been infused with religious justification. Piety serves as both motivating tool (recruiting foot soldiers from among the exploited believers) and deflective shield (interpreting scripture to rationalize murder and suppress opposition).

Walid Shoebat grew up a zealous, Jew-hating Muslim in the West Bank, progressing from a boy who threw stones to a young man who lobbed bombs.

He is now a born-again California Christian Zionist, having renounced both violence and Islam, which he persists in viewing as fatally intertwined ? a position that will justifiably appall hundreds of millions of Muslims who neither practise nor condone violent tactics, while causing a great many Jews to just as understandably recoil from his ardent friendship, given that the fundamental Christian literalists love Jews only insofar as they can serve their End of Days purpose, as prophesied in Revelation.

Israel has pitifully few friends these days, assailed on all sides by a new version of anti-Zionism that's no more than the old version of anti-Semitism ? denial of Israel's right to exist, but couched in a different language: the argot of occupation and Israel's perceived abuse of power, coupled with an alarming resurgence of pure anti-Semitism in Europe, a robust bigotry that doesn't even pretend to be what it's not, though hardly more virtuous for its transparency. This isolation might account for Israel forging an unholy alliance with the Christian right, though I'm prepared to accept that many righteous Christians have a genuine affection for Israel, a commitment to its political survival, and do not merely support the state as a Biblical prerequisite for apocalyptic annihilation and the dawning of the New Jerusalem.

In that context, maybe it doesn't matter much that Shoebat is a Christian fundamentalist, widely condemned as a traitor to Palestine, excoriated for betraying his family, his original Muslim faith and his troubled people. For which Shoebat does not apologize. He's had his epiphany, and he speaks with the moral certitude of the enthusiastically converted. "The more you accept the teachings of the Bible, the more peaceful you become. The more you accept the teachings of the Qur'an, the more violent you will become."

This is patently absurd. It is also offensive. But there is truth in the far more qualified observation that Qur'anic teachings (like Biblical teachings, actually) have been disgracefully distorted in some quarters to promote jihad and to demonize the West, Christians and Jews and moderate Muslims alike. Although, it must be noted, even moderate Muslim states have little tolerance for Israel. Hating Israel is a common denominator and not exclusive to Muslim nations.

Hence the mythologizing of Palestinians, transformed these past 20 years into the most darling and blessed of the oppressed. It lends Palestinian terrorism a certain qualified éclat, distinguishing it from the garden-variety version of killers.

Shoebat was once a terrorist. To that extent, he knows whereof he speaks. Though I doubt whether his terrorist CV will gain him much street cred among Palestinians, or Canadians blindly supportive of the Palestinian cause.

The 43-year-old computer programmer was brought to Toronto yesterday by the local chapter of Betar Tagar, an international Zionist organization, to participate in a radio program, entitled Let's Talk Peace, emanating from the University of Toronto. The format had Shoebat interviewed in front of a student audience for a two-hour live taping of a radio show hosted by New York-based Rabia Tovia Singer. It's the first time the show, heard in Israel, has been taken to any university campus. Canada was picked, says Singer, because the case for Israel is not being made, or properly heard, in this country, where pro-Israeli voices have sometimes been silenced by Palestinian activism on campuses.

"The world does not see the truth about what's happening in the West Bank," Shoebat told the Star in an interview yesterday afternoon. "My purpose is to tell the West that they aren't getting the real picture, that what they're seeing is propaganda. I know the truth because I was there, I was part of it. And the truth is, we wanted to kill Jews long before the occupation. I wanted to kill Jews."

Shoebat's mother is a blonde, blue-eyed American Christian who converted to Islam upon marriage, his father a Palestinian Arab and professor of Islamic studies. Born in a village near Bethlehem, Shoebat grew up immersed in Islam but also steeped in hatred for Jews, even though he never met one until his teens. Even during the two years when he attended a Lutheran school in Jericho, says Shoebat, he was taught to vilify Jews. "I remember going to a zoo in Israel where they had a monkey that smoked cigarettes. We believed that monkey's ancestors were Jews."

He recalls throwing stones at Jews worshipping at the Western Wall, and a group of Palestinian boys, of which he was part, almost tearing an Israeli soldier limb from limb.

"In my village, I started all the riots. Then we'd take off our shirts and yell at the soldiers: `Come on, shoot us! Shoot us!' Of course, they never did. Once I made a club, with a nail in it, for a friend to use against the soldiers. Another time, after we'd attacked soldiers, we were hidden inside a convent. Even the nuns hated the Jews and they helped us get away. That was the day I said to my father, `I almost killed my first Jew today.'"

On another day, he says, he was sent by the Palestine Liberation Organization to bomb an Israeli bank in Bethlehem. He lobbed the bomb on to the roof seconds before the timed device exploded. No one was killed. But Shoebat, instigator of riots, ultimately ended up in an Israeli jail and, upon release, was sent to the U.S. by his parents. In Chicago, as a leader of the Palestinian youth organization on campus, he raised funds for the PLO, once even bought 1,000 military uniforms that he shipped to Palestinian fighters back home.

This went on until the early '90s, when Shoebat became engaged to a Catholic girl from Mexico. In helping to prepare his fiancée's conversion to Islam, Shoebat spent six months studying both the Bible and the Qur'an. In the end, "I was the one who converted." Not to Catholicism but to evangelical Christianity.

His father disowned him. "He still calls me at 2 o'clock in the morning and tells me I should be killed. He hates me."

For all his newfound religious fervour, his ideological certainty, his raging against the mass brainwashing of Palestinian youth, I suspect there's a part of Shoebat that doesn't entirely like himself either.

"I wake up every morning, I look in the mirror and I see a traitor. Yes, I see a traitor. But a traitor to what?

"It's just another label to add to my name."

Once a terrorist, always a terrorist.

Nazi = Zionist

Claiming you're "anti-Zionist" is like claiming you're "anti-freedom to live without being murdered".

The brightest illustration of the fact that Zionism is the ONLY political movement in the entire middle east that's worthy of support and NOT a candidate for extermination is the fact that all these IMC imbeciles are afraid of it.

is for armored bulldozers and snipers to keep the good citizens of the alfuent side of the wall, aware of the terror they deal out.

> Israel has pitifully few friends these days, assailed on all sides by a new version of anti-Zionism that's no more than the old version of anti-Semitism ? denial of Israel's right to exist



Orthodox Jews Mass Protest Against the State of Israel

12 February 2002

Estimated 20,000 Orthodox Jews demonstrated on Tuesday, February 12, 2002, in front of the Israeli Consulate in New York City, organized the the Central Rabbinical Congress of USA and Canada, to voice their opposition to the existence of the state of Israel, their suppression of religion and brutal treatment of religious people.

http://www.jewsagainstzionism.com/protests.htm



So here's 20,000 JEWS who are against zionism.

Troll planted articles notwithstanding, the reality of the situation is that most Jews themselves don't support zionists.



Protocols Forgery Argument is Flawed



Henry Makow Ph.D. (a Jew BTW)

Next to the Bible The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is perhaps the mostly widely read book in the world.

Published in Russia in 1903, it purports to be the leaked master plan for "Jewish world domination." It is the kind of thing that would be studied at secret workshops of an occult society.

In different ways, both Zionists and Nazis have made it synonymous with virulent anti Semitism and genocide.

But surely Jews should not be blamed for the machinations of a tiny secret society. The vast majority of Jews would disavow this master plan if they believed it existed.

Surely one can condemn all racism and genocide in the strongest possible terms and still believe the Protocols are authentic.

In my opinion, the equation of the Protocols with anti Semitism is really a ploy to divert attention away from this master plan.

The plagiarism claim is part of a propaganda campaign waged by conscious and unconscious collaborators in academia and the media.



The Forgery Claim

We are told that The Protocols of Zion is a hoax, a "proven forgery" concocted by the Tsarist Political Police (the Okhrana) to incite anti Semitism and discredit revolutionaries.

But the "proof" is far from convincing.

It consists of three articles published in The London Times (August 16-18, 1921) by Philip Graves. www.rense.com/general45/proto.htm

According to Graves, Protocols is a crude, chapter-by-chapter plagiarism of Maurice Joly's Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu (1864).

It was easy to make this claim while Joly's book was unavailable. Napolean III's police confiscated it as soon as it was published.

But it is available now and I invite you to compare the two texts. In my opinion, they are entirely different in tone, content and purpose. At 140 pages, Dialogues is twice as long as Protocols. Most of it finds no echo in the Protocols.

The crux of Graves' argument is that certain references and passages in Protocols have been lifted from Dialogues. He claims there are 50 of these and produces about a dozen.

Their striking resemblance to the Protocols leaves little doubt that the author did refer to the Dialogues as part of his research. He had no compunction about borrowing or reshaping a few passages that appealed to him.

Indeed Philip Graves is "struck by the absence of any effort on the part of the plagiarist to conceal his plagiarisms."

That's because he had nothing to hide. He was not Graves' "unimportant precis- writer employed by the court or by the Okhrana" to construct a hoax.

He was a diabolical genius crafting an original work. It is simplistic and disingenuous to characterize Protocols as a hoax.



Political Provenance

Graves' article smacks of Zionist propaganda. Graves "expose" of the Protocols appeared in August 1921 when Zionists were pressing the League of Nations to turn Palestine into a Jewish homeland under British Mandate.

Philip Grave tells the unlikely story that a "Mr. X" brought the Dialogues to him in Constantinople where he was the Times' correspondent. Mr. X presented it as "irrefutable proof" that the Protocols are a plagiarism.

Mr. X was a White Russian, which seems incredible given the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution. He claims he bought the book from, get this, "a former member of the Okhrana" who had fled to Constantinople.

In The Controversy of Zion, (Chapter 34) Douglas Reed, a Times' staffer, provides additional background.

In May 1920, Lord Northcliffe, a part owner of The Times, printed an article about the Protocols of Zion entitled The Jewish Peril, A Disturbing Pamphlet, A Call for an Enquiry. " It concluded:

"An impartial investigation of these would-be documents and their history is most desirable...are we to dismiss the whole matter without inquiry and to let the influence of such a book as this work unchecked?"

Then in May 1922 Northcliffe visited Palestine and wrote that Britain had been too hasty to promise it to the Jewish people when in fact it belonged to 700,000 Muslim Arab residents.

Mr. Wickham Steed, the editor of The Times of London in 1921 refused to print the article and Northcliffe tried to get him fired.

Somehow Steed was able to have Northcliffe declared "insane" and committed. Later Northcliffe complained he was being poisoned and died suddenly in 1922.

Douglas Reed was Northcliffe's secretary but didn't learn of these events until they appeared in Official History of the Times in the 1950's.

Clearly Northcliffe had offended some "big boys" when he opposed the British Mandate in Palestine. Why was it so important?

Israel is intended to be the capital of the Masonic World Government. They are already constructing the infrastructure. See "The Roots of Evil in Jerusalem" http://thegoldenreport.com/articles.asp?id=00180



The Forgery Claim in Detail

Philip Graves and the other apologists are incorrect to claim the Protocols plagiarize the Dialogues chapter by chapter.

Graves writes that "the Seventh Dialogue...corresponds with the fifth, sixth, seventh and part of the eighth Protocol. "

At eight pages, these Protocols are twice as long as the Seventh Dialogue.

They mostly contain material not in the Seventh Dialogue, or anywhere else I can find. I will list a few examples from Protocol Five alone.

Protocol Five says "our kingdom will be distinguished by a despotism of such magnificent proportions" that it will "wipe out any goyim who oppose us by deed or word."

In contrast Seventh Dialogue says, "Death, expropriation and torture should only play a minor role in the internal politics of modern states."

Protocols Five says we "robbed [the goyim] of their faith in God" and "insinuated into their minds the conception of their own rights" thereby undermining the authority of Kings. There is nothing comparable in Dialogue Seven.

Protocol Five says, "we shall so wear down the goyim that they will be compelled to offer us international power [allowing us] gradually to absorb all State forces of the world and to form a Super-Government." There is nothing comparable in Dialogue Seven.

Protocol Five says the "engine" of all states is "in our hands" and that engine is "Gold." "We were chosen by God Himself to rule over the whole earth." There is nothing comparable in Dialogue Seven.



On the Other Hand

The author of Protocols does select a few passages or references from Dialogues that appear unaltered (see Graves) or in different form.

For example, the Dialogues' say: " Everywhere might precedes right. Political liberty is merely a relative idea. The need to live is what dominates states as it does individuals."

In Protocols this becomes, "From the law of nature right lies in might. Political freedom is an idea but not a fact, and one must know how to use it [political freedom] as a bait whenever it appears necessary to attract the masses ... to one's party for the purpose of crushing another who is in authority." (Protocols 1)

Graves leaves out the last part to make the resemblance seem greater than it is.

Dialogues (7) say, "Revolutionary ferment which is suppressed in one's own country should be incited throughout Europe."

In Protocols (7) "Throughout all Europe ... we must create ferments, discords, hostilities." There is no reference to suppressing these in one's own country.

The author of Protocols is not a forger creating a hoax, but a conspirator forging an original work.



Same Genre, Different Conceptions

Both books belong to the "immoral school" of political theory. Machiavelli pays homage to a long list of rulers "who are progenitors of my doctrine." Both preach might makes right, good comes from evil, and the end justifies the means.

But the similarity ends there. The tone of the Dialogues is dry and theoretical.

It is a debate between fictional political theorists: Montesquieu a champion of democracy and Machiavelli, a champion of tyranny. Dialogues is considered a critique of the reign of Napolean III.

Montesquieu asks how to quell the spirit of anarchy in society. Machiavelli prescribes a "monster called the state" which maintains a democratic artifice but is actually controlled by the "Prince." He talks about how to suppress secret societies.

On the other hand, Protocols is the product of a secret society. It is frankly conspiratorial and subversive and pays homage to Lucifer. Protocols is a "strategic plan from which we cannot deviate without running the risk of seeing the labour of many centuries come to naught." (Protocol 1)

Unlike Dialogues, we are struck by a sense of relevance when reading Protocols. We recognize its baneful influence in today's world. See my articles "Did Rothschild Write The Protocols of Zion?" "Protocols is the Illuminati Blueprint" and "Protocols Dominates Our Culture."



Propaganda

Since Graves' articles, there have been a number of books arguing the "forgery" thesis. The latest is Norman Cohn, Warrant for Genocide (1970). http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/cohn.html

Graves and Cohn admit that "the Financial Programme" (Protocols 20-24) which the author calls "the crowning and decisive point of our plans" is largely original.

For serious researchers, Australian researcher Peter Myers presents pro and con views.

http://users.cyberone.com.au/myers/toolkit.html

Goebbels said that propaganda is effective only when the reader doesn't realize it is propaganda. It follows that dupes write the best propaganda. For example, see Rick Salutin, Protocols of Zion's Critics. www.theglobeandmail.com/servlet/ArticleNews/TPStory/LAC/20031212/COSALU12/TPColumnists/



Conclusion

One hundred million people were slaughtered in the last century but no one considers that the human race might have been subverted.

War is hell but no one thinks Satan worshipers might be behind it.

I suspect the Second World War was a battle for racial superiority between Jewish and Aryan wings of the Illuminati who in fact are united at the top.

The private central bankers of England, the U.S. and Nazi Germany made the war possible. They worked as one at the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland. (See Charles Higham, Trading With the Enemy.)

The purpose of the war was to degrade, defraud and demoralize humanity. The Holocaust provided a rationale for the establishment of Israel as headquarters of the New World Order. Aryans, Jews and many others were sacrificed and exploited.

In my opinion, the outlawing of Protocols on pain of death in Bolshevik Russia and its execration in the West today proves its authenticity.

Mankind is in the grip of a diabolical conspiracy. In order to make good people do bad things, truth must be tailored to fit the political purpose. This is Communist and Feminist teaching.

I would like to be proven wrong, but in the case of Protocols, the "forgery" argument is propaganda.

Alright hex. Enough with the spewing of someone else's thoughts. Here's a cahance for you to think and express for yourself.

"I've said plenty of times on this site and others that Israel should make the first overtures of peace and dismantle the settlements.

You've read and replied to those posts but you never respond to that point.

I've also said that Israel needs to roll back military actions of retaliation.

You, however have never even come CLOSE to stating what you would consider steps to peace other than the destruction of Israel, by virtue of cutting off aid.

It's irrefutable that in the last decade, the periods of the most concessions from Israel have resulted in an INCREASE in Islamic terrorism.

You know as well as I do that groups like Hamas and Al aqsa don't give a FUCK about land. They simply want to kill Jews because of religion. Try and lie and spin it anyway you want but that's a fact.

Our aid is the only thing that keeps Isarel defended against increasing attacks which come wether they give in or not, because no matter what they do and no matter how much land they give to "palestinians" they will always be Jews. And the racists of Hamas will always want to kill them.

Until the palestinian people rise up and cut out the cancer of their own terrorists then peace will never happen. And as long as people like you are unwilling to even acknowledge the cause and effect of racist Arab terrorism, nothing will happen.

I'll say it agin so you understand. Isarel MUST dismantle the settlements and give the disputed areas of Egypt, Syria and Jordan to the "palestinians" so a Palestinian state can come into being. Furthermore, Israel must remove all military presence from these disputed terrirtoties. They should also get someone much less reactionary than Sharon behind the wheel.

All that said, "palestine" must cease it's war of hate and be willing to accept, for the first time, responsibility for it's actions over the last 8 or 9 decades.

So there Hex. What's your plan? I'm very curious as to wheteher you'll even respond.

Let's just cut out all the bullshit for a second and discuss this.

What dya' say?

"



So Hex, any thoughts of your own?

Hex Anon w/Encryption is an unabashed Jew-hater.

He thinks the Protocols are authentic.

Hex, you truly are a useful idiot for all who want to wipe out Jews.

You're a sad, twisted person.

nonanarchist

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.

http://www.imra.org.il/story.php3?id=19507

Tuesday, January 20, 2004

ZOA:Palestinian Arab Violations of Roadmap - January 19, 2004

January 20, 2004 Palestinian Arab Violations of President Bush's "Road

Map" Plan A Survey of Week #38: January 13, 2004 - January 19, 2004

BACKGROUND: On June 24, 2002, President Bush set forth the conditions

that the Palestinian Arabs must fulfill in order to merit U.S. support for

the creation of a Palestinian Arab state. Among the major obligations are

that the Palestinian Arabs must "dismantle the terrorist infrastructure,"

"end incitement," "elect new leaders not compromised by terror," and

unequivocally embrace democracy and free market economics. None of those

conditions were fulfilled.

[...]

The Road Map requires the Palestinian Arabs to undertake concrete steps to

combat terrorist groups and democratize Palestinian Arab society. Those

obligations, which are quoted below, were supposed to have been fulfilled

during Phase 1 of the Road Map, which concluded at the end of May 2003, but

they were not.

This report analyzes Palestinian Arab violations of those obligations during

the 38th week following the unveiling of the Road Map plan, Jan.13 - Jan.19,

2004.

I. "Cease All Violence" What They Are Required to Do: The Road Map

states: "In Phase 1 [May 2003], the Palestinians immediately undertake an

unconditional cessation of violence." They did not do so.

What They Did During Week #38: During week #38, Jan. 13-19, 2004, there

were at least 20 terrorist attacks or attempted attacks, in which 5 people

were murdered and 15 wounded.

(During the first 38 weeks since the Road Map was issued, there have been a

total of at least 954 Palestinian Arab terrorist attacks or attempted

attacks, in which 140 people were murdered and 743 wounded.)

*****************

Read the whole thing. Not one step the Palestinians agreed to do was accomplished.

Real interested in peace, aren't they.

nonanarchist

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.

must have poured some salt on an open sore spot.

That's what I call a howl of rage.

Ha Ha

> It's irrefutable / that's a fact

so you read all that in 4 minutes did you - so you know all about facts I see.

So much in "fact" you find yourself skimming over them then *telling other people what they think, stand for or feel* - typical reactionary tactic.

Fact is merely a word to be tossed around in a game. While I spend hours researching to post these revelations which I actually save until the right moment comes along (in case you haven't noticed - I didn't publish an article about zionism, I waited until someone ELSE did and then simply corrected it USING said facts I've been saving) you don't even take the time to read the data that's presented by a JEW or the protests by JEWS much less follow the links for further information as penned directly above.

Insted we're treated to more of the same BS devoid of any facts at all, then asked to "prove" even more facts when *you didn't even read what's been presented already*, with useless diversionary posturing and other fun trolls love to engage in - the one thing you are good at.

And then nonbrainious shows up *right on queue* as usual - the timestamps strongly suggesting either you are one and the same or at the very least in close contact - working together as a tag-team to browbeat the scary truth monster into submission..



I've stated before I'm merely a researcher who among other subjects collect dirt on zionists, the JDL, the ADL, etc.

Collecting FACTS does not lend one emotion/feelings and this activity does not automaticly generate solutions to raise the game to yet another level of "my solution is better than yours" as neither party/solution would ever be implimented anyway and is therefore yet another distraction. But when the frightening truth is revealed those who are against it seeing the light of day panic and do anything they can to distract from it.

Not a single point presented above was even addressed - insted we get more strawman attacks and rhetoric.

My solution of course is obvious

Keep presenting the facts - the fruit of my research efforts, in a timely manner as falsehoods are posted. The perfect solution to lies and liars - no ?

PS. I don't hate - anybody, as thats emotional baggage I have no use for. This is research into the facts, not a game. We've been down this road before...

Since the beginning of the Palestinian uprising on 29 September 2000 the Israeli army has killed more than 2,200 Palestinians, including 400 children."

"While claiming that it seeks to avoid harming the Palestinian population the Israeli army tanks and aircraft continue to shell densely populated Palestinian refugee camps and residential areas, knowing that such reckless fire will cause heavy civilian casualties."

Source: Amnesty International

Hex. You're simply a monster.

You have simply flat out shown that you are a garden variety racist of the lunatic fringe variety.

Keep on with all your analysis of "troll tactics" and your obfuscation of direct questions.

You don't have a leg to stand on.

NO ONE here thinks of you as anything but a fucking creep.

Sig Heil Nazi.

And jerry is "NO ONE"

Isarel and "palestine" will eventually work out a peace without lunatic scum like you.

You'll be left all alone hating Jews and the Palestinians will thank you to kindly go away.

Post some more pics utterly proving me right as you do every time.

I'll leave you with this gem of schizophrenia..."I suspect the Second World War was a battle for racial superiority between Jewish and Aryan wings of the Illuminati who in fact are united at the top. "

this pretty well sums it up I think...

Jerry (fresca et al) is fond of calling people "sub-human" and "death to all muslims" and so on..

While I keep repeating under attack that *I hate nobody*.

You know my photo expose' is waiting in the wings.

And real photographs have much more impact than troll mud. And who benefits from mud slinging - besides the troll of course ?

"Jerry (fresca et al) is fond of calling people "sub-human" and "death to all muslims" and so on..

While I keep repeating under attack that *I hate nobody*.

"

Beyond the fact that Jerry is a fictional character you've concocted, the fact remains that I've never said death to all muslims (Find it..it's not there) and I've only called people like Islamists, KKK members, Nazi's, and you subhuman simply because it's true.

You continue to TYPE that you hate no one yet your every post is filled with your theories about the Jews trying to control the world. The Jews being baby killers. The Jews concocting WW2 as a struggle to domminate the world racially.

If that isn't hate then it doesn't exist.

I keep responding because it's fun. The fact is, is that you prove yourself a monster all by yourself.

Thursday, October 17, 2002

Slow and Steady Doesn't Always Win the Race...

Our friend Jerry over at Milblog (see link at left)

http://milblog.org/

Dem Self-Destruct Watch Update

These are the ratings when we last left our bunch of intrepid candidates, preparing for their fearsome encounter with the Iowa caucases. Pray for them - because I sure won't. Except maybe for Lieberman, that he become a Repub. I think he's getting sick of the whole Democratic system.

Un-Electables

00 points left --- Carol Mosley Braun --- Bowed out. Will be removed from next list.

00 points left --- Dennis Kucinich

00 points left --- Al Sharpton

Maybe Good Enoughs

95 points left --- Joe Liberman

15 points left --- John Edwards

00 points left --- John Kerry

Likely Good Enoughs

05 points left --- Howard Dean

05 points left --- Wesley Clark

35 points left --- Dick Gephardt

The campaigning's been pretty fierce, and Dean's been showing both flashes of temper and starting to wear with the unions. Drop him 10 points - and with this next round, we're going to let the characters get into negative numbers.

Carter says Dean called him to ask for support. Drop him 5 for a solicited endorsement. Another 5, people are starting to look into his past, and it's not surprising he wanted his records sealed. Total, -20.

Update: Carter says he didn't invite Dean to church. Drop another 10 for spinning events in ways that didn't happen.

McGovern endorses Clark. Wait, I thought McGovern was dead... no advantage either way. Papaer's questioning his forced retirement from CINC-Nato. Pull 5 points. Also, inconsistencies are being reported in his stance re the war. Still clueless on the economy. Total, down 10.

Kerry's been making progress, gathering endorsements, getting his message out - raise him by 15.

Lieberman's been getting endorsements, but still not moving up - no points either way.

Gephardt's been maintaining a low profile - probably a good idea at this point. No points, either way.

Edwards - moving up, getting support, but playing class card pretty heavily - up 10, down 20.

Kucinich - less than 5% support in Iowa. Down 5.

Sharpton - Running out of cash, not getting matching funds, lost DC election, losing support in Black and Latino communities. Down 20. Expect him to bail shortly, possibly this week.

Un-Electables

- 05 points, -05 points left --- Dennis Kucinich

- 20 points, -20 points left --- Al Sharpton

Maybe Good Enoughs

- 00 points, 95 points left --- Joe Liberman

- 10 points, 05 points left --- John Edwards

+ 15 points, 25 points left --- John Kerry

Likely Good Enoughs

- 30 points, -25 points left --- Howard Dean

- 10 points, -15 points left --- Wesley Clark

- 00 points, +35 points left --- Dick Gephardt

We'll see where it goes! Still thinking Lieberman/Gephardt, but it could be Lieberman/Kerry. I'm heading to bed, I've dozed off twice while writing this...

J.



Posted by Jerry at 11:11 PM | Comments (0)

In case you're wondering why non-meat related articles show up here on occasion -

I use Blogger.com to do my blogs. It works pretty well, but there's a little utility you can download so yoiu can highlight things in Internet Explorer and then save them more or less directly to the blog. I've got three mainline blogs, milblog, oilblog, and meatblog - and the utility has a dropdown list so I can select which blog I want to put something in.



Meatblog is the first on the list. And often I forget to change which blog the item goes into, with the result that something Mil related goes into Meatblog. I usually catch it pretty fast, but sometimes it may be a day or more before things get filed away properly.



So if something doesn't seem to fit it's not because you're in the wrong blog - I just forget sometimes to designate which blog I want it to go into.



J.



posted by Jerry Lawson / Sunday, August 04, 2002

http://meatblog.blogspot.com/2002_08_04_meatblog_archive.html



Daily Pundit Archives

... Over at MilBlog, Jerry Lawson says he'd feel soothed if gun-toting airline

pilots posted their last target from the range on the cockpit door. ...

www.dailypundit.com/archives/003923.php



http://oilblog.blogspot.com/

Tuesday, June 17, 2003



Well, fine. I'll put this here then...

Times Online

never imagined when I wrote on this page in March about the plastic shredder used to kill in one of Saddam’s prisons that I would, some months later, read in a chillingly meticulous record book that one of the methods of execution was “mincing”.



notice jerry talks about *exactly* the same subjects and has *exactly* the same attitudes as "fresca et al"



Friday, February 07, 2003



CAMMO CHIC

When it comes to hiding in plain sight, forget about the Japanese invisibility cloak. Check out CADPAT and MARPAT, the new digitally-generated camouflage patterns developed by the Canadian military and modified by the U.S. Marines. Samples of the new Forest, Desert, and Urban patterns are online, and they look...weird. But Jerry Lawson at MilBlog says they look great in person:



"I had the chance to see this stuff close up - and it tricks the eye something fierce. You literally don't want to look at it, your mind registers it as grass or something and you look away. I was looking at a group of 3 marines in good fluorescent light, and it was real hard to keep my eyes on the fabric."

Posted by Jerry at 04:40 PM | Comments (0)

The Aussies get it.

They like Bush, and they are not stupid

Never mind we don't seem to have anything documented on Israelis deliberately killing Palestinians that aren't actively trying to kill them first. A certain amount of creative license is expected...

Never mind that this is from Arafat's channel. Who, as has been mentioned by others "asking Arafat to refrain from terrorism is like asking Tiger Woods to not play golf."

Never mind that this commercial doesn't encourage trying to make a better world TODAY - just blow yourself up or get killed by the Israelis and you'll have a brighter tomorrow...

It's a culture of death. Pathological, un-sane, and perverse. As such - it could either be encouraged to continue (which is bad) or stopped, which would be almost as bad.

No easy answers - just readily apparent questions...

J.

posted by Jerry Lawson at 5:29 PM



Thursday, June 27, 2002



TownHall.com: Conservative Columnists: Dennis Prager

Why does the left support the Palestinians?

Why does the left support the Palestinians against Israel?

The question is rarely asked. It is simply taken for granted that the left -- Europe, the Western news media, the universities, the liberal churches, the arts world -- supports the Palestinians and the larger Arab/Muslim worlds in their war against Israel.

But the question does need to be asked. For it is completely inconsistent with the left's professed values to side with Israel's enemies. Just about every value the left claims to uphold Israel upholds and its enemies do not.

The left speaks about its passion for democracy ("power to the people"). Yet it is Israel that is a fully functioning democracy, as opposed to all of its Arab and Muslim enemies. Yasser Arafat is precisely the self-aggrandizing, corrupt dictator-type that the left claims to hold in contempt.

Good question... And the answer the author comes up with makes a LOT of sense.

J.

posted by Jerry Lawson at 10:59 PM





International Watch - June 17, 2002 - The Ornery American - By Orson Scott Card

You Can't Have Peace When the Enemy Wants War

The coalition is killing us.

The trouble is, without allies, this war is going to be very hard to win -- not without turning it into a world war between Islam and America.

We don't want to fight that war.

But Osama bin Laden, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and their ilk -- that's what they'd like best.

Are they crazy?

Well, yes. I mean, they send suicide bombers to kill people who aren't doing them any harm. Of course they're crazy.

But that doesn't mean they're stupid. Their objective is to send the world up in flames. Why? Because right now, the Muslim world is pretty near the bottom of the hierarchy of nations, and it's very hard to reconcile that with the promises of the Qur'an.

So, if by following your religion you are being outproduced by the rest of the world, the solution is to force the world to stop producing. Not change the way YOU work, but change the rest of the world.

Right?

Rrrright....

J.

posted by Jerry Lawson at 10:51 PM

Me exposing your blogs seems to have taken the "fun" out of you on here.

You should know better than to challenge me to produce data - I've said and shown how I save things for just the right time, that I have dirt ready and waiting...

Suddenly "fresca" AND nonbrainious both disappear when "they" were on a roll ? When "they" always get in the last word - usually by one last mud sling that doesn't address any issue raised.

Shall I post the "J." spam you posted on the main IMC with the over 100 "death to all Muslims" and so on ?

The "J." posts on LGF signed "Jerry", the blog URLS you left on there, the same "J." signed JERRY LAWSON (look above) at the same URL's ?



All these posts have one thing in common, your anti-Left/Islam/Democrat attitudes. That provides yet another connection. (6)

2 IP's I found tie you to the same geographical area where you talk about the military base in your blogs as well.

Jerry Lawson, a retired military cheetos warrior who lives in Chesnee, NC. A LGF troll who came here to disrupt and distract...

You [removed] your personal information from whoswhere, have a non-published phone number, but 1-800-SEARCH did provide your town, and the IP's I found trace back there.

I also did background checks on your entire family - the pic I posted several days ago is a relative of yours who is a sex offender. I did a federal background check as well - a couple of your kin are convicts, same deal - sex offences..

Nice family you have

Nice to know your lunacy is at least consistent, Hex.

Seems like the biggest part of what you laughingly call "proof" is the "fact" that:

--Several people seem to share the same opinions.

Ooooh! That's good enough for me! Wow! That means that you and David Duke are the same person, then. That's all the proof that's required, seemingly. You both hate Jews.

As for the rest of your nonsense, I live in SC, dolt.

"Suddenly "fresca" AND nonbrainious both disappear..."

Had things to do. Life, the Universe, and Everything. Sorry to burst you little bubble of triumph, but as you'll notice, I don't feel any single shred of need to live up to your expectations. Too bad, so sad.

Go ahead and post the "J." spam...whatever that is. It will prove...ta-da!...NOTHING.

Oh, and keep posting this Jerry Lawson's personal stuff.

Maybe he'll sue the homemade cables off ya. Hah!

nonanarchist

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.

...do you have any comment on the original article?

You remember...the one that says Palestinian terrorism has nothing to do with the occupation. They just want to kill Jews.

Do you have any comment?

Look at it this way...you have yet another opportunity to denounce the terrorist tactics used by those you support.

I can't WAIT to see exactly how you fail to denounce terrorism and instead shift the blame to those being terrorized!

nonanarchist

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.

that's the best you could come up with after 7 hours ?



fresca is *specifically* the handle I traced back to "kobe duke" where the IP's show 3 handles from the same address ;

kobe duke

fresca

nonbrainiouns

but the IP's also showed this;

kobe sbm

nonbrainiouns

fresca

this shows you *swap handles* between yourself and ned rendering handles alone useless - good thing the IP's showed what was really going on

the only 2 *real persons* I've traced back to are you & ned, both of you posting under multible handles...

I did follow the progression

1.) jerry starts some blogs

2.) jerry starts posting on LGF

3.) jerry becomes a kobe

4.) jerry becomes a troll on here - tied to ned's influence who was already trolling here

another kobe I found evidence on is "scott" - a scott works at compNLA..

it appears one or two other people *occasionally* posted as various kobe handles but most of the time the "core" of kobe, JERRY AND NED did all the posting both using multible handles.

Specifically, jerry posts *for* ned while ned returns the favor and posts for jerry (both freely exchanging handles, as getting people to believe kobe was anything more than two (2) people playing games was a high priority.)

The IP's show these things to be true, the only way the IP's can be wrong ;

1.) you used the same proxies that escaped my checks

2.) the person posted from your house

3.) you used VPN to tunnel to the other person's house

I saw several sets of posts where the handles involved shared the same IP, I also saw DeVoy posting as various handles ALSO from the same IP and playing about the same games. This is why I don't buy his sob story about how a *known* stalker totally terrorized him - as I saw him *enjoying himself*, mostly as different handles (but the same IP) playing the same mud slinging games "kobe" was, his excuse doesn't wash when you see just how childish he was, there seems to be a problem with him vastly overstating his abilities and morals. I wouldn't go as far as saying he's a "mole" or a right-winger playing at being an anarchist and his web sites are honeypots (although there's evidence to suggest this and other people have accused him of it) because the data I found is inconclusive on him.

Jerry though is a different story - there's 5 parallel tracks leading directly back to him and the profile (says exactly the same things, exactly the same attitude) makes 6

Ned was also throughly pinned down - that's why he has disappeared, as he can't afford to have his business ruined. Jerry is retired (he's moved and changed ISP's recently)

from what I could determine he used to live on the base or nearby, with his old ISP

then he retired, moved to Chesnee and got a new DSL provider

I stopped tracking him several months ago as the kobe problem wrapped up - all this data with the exception of some of his blog material posted above is old.

I've seen enough and playing his "guess who I am today" games is a waste of time - the data I'm refering to goes back to 3 years ago - look at the timestamps above.

almost all the data is from a time when he wasn't being nearly as secretive and careful - this is how I traced him down...

fresca the deny-at-all-costs troll would of course NEVER admit to anything, it's IMC and it's partons this data is directed at.

All IMC has to do is check the IP's of the troll posts and do a whois and see if they go back to the same geographical area (the north carolina/south carolina border area where the military bases are - his old and new addresses)

All IMC patrons have to do is read the blogs and compare what is written (I only posted a few samples)

You'll see in some cases almost *word for word* the same crap that he's posted on here.

The shredder

The "left's support of terrorists"

The "israel can do no wrong" attitude

The "democrats must lose"

The "sub-human" - they deserve death attitude

The same military background

The same AGE

The same geographical area

Then the IP's, the spam on the main IMC, the posts on LGF where he signs "jerry", his blogs mentioned on LGF, and his blogs signed jerry lawson...

probable cause - there's enough evidence to establish probable cause, just as there is with ned.

In a civil suit I would win as I have a preponderance of evidence.

the picture above is public data due to the convict being a sex offender, all the data I obtained is both public and free - I wasn't willing to spend any money to do a proper search, this is just what I could obtain for free. IMC staff feel free to do with this as you wish as this thread was started by a troll anyway - I'd hide it myself for that reason alone. But neither the article nor these comments are news, you don't see ME whining about hidden posts, it's not that important...

It's good to get all the data on the table though - at least we can see who the trolls really are...

This is all so ....boring.

Hex couldn't identify a shovel if it hit him in the ass.

Whovever this Jerry guy is (still no eveidence he's anything more than another hex delusion) he's sure got hex all riled up.

Anyway, gotta run.

It's a long commute from wherever jerry lives to Cole and Willoughby where I'm working today.

very interesting

most days nothing can tear you away from trolling here, where timestamps reveal you spend all day and most of the night (retired) spamming no matter what

where it's "fun" for you to put us all in our places by posting "facts" to correct our - um, FACTS..

and you've promised you'll keep doing so no matter what measures IMC takes to stop you.

BUT NOW

suddenly you're "bored" and have better things to do ?

GOOD

It's called a job.

Try one out.

This week it's been a Sprint commercial. Last week Pepsi.

Off tommorrow.

Keep an eye out.

Simply masterful, Hex.

Wrong, but masterful.

Say...how much time to you devote to saving the world from "jerry", anyway?

And you have the nerve to say I'm obsessed?

What a dork.

Let me spell it out for you, Hex. Not that you'll believe me, but what the heck, huh?

I'm 40, active duty Air Force, stationed at a base NOT on the border. My ISP is not located in the same county I am. I come here to laugh at you before work, sometimes at lunch ( which I come home for...6 minute drive, 10 minute bike ride), and in the evenings.

I have used the handles daveman, mr wilson, tpfkamw, and now nonanarchist. I spoofed Meyer London on one thread. I've been visiting la-imc for about a year now. Same with Little Green Footballs, where I post as daveman. Before I got here, I was stationed in Oman for 15 months.

I drive a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan with SC plates.

I don't have my own blog. Not interested, nor do I have the time.

If you Google "David Wilson", you won't find me...because that's not my last name. My last name is...psych! Made you look.

I don't use anonymous proxy servers. Too much trouble, and besides, I like the "disruptive poster" designation. It's like a badge of honor.

My email address is daveman_1@hotmail.com. Spam away. Actually, Hotmail's spam filters have greatly improved the last couple of months.

C'mon, Hex! With all this information, I'm sure a bright boy such as yourself can figure out who I really am.

Assuming, of course, you can pry yourself off this "jerry" delusion.

Gotta go and get the little girl up and ready for school.

And I don't even like Cheetos.

nonanarchist

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.

A tiny sliver of sunlight peeks through for a second -

> Same with Little Green Footballs, where I post



From the standpoint of IMC this case is closed - you just admitted you're a LGF troll here to disrupt/distract and nothing positive

hence the "proud" warning under your handle when you're not using proxies and "jlkjlkjj" to evade it at least.

Some of the IP's did resolve to *known proxies* in the lists...

The only other option is to reset your DSL - I guess that DID get tiring.

You do realize how easy it is to add a feature to this newswire to automaticly block any post with such a warning don't you ?

You've already admitted you're trying to force us to read your garbage by evading it.

So now it comes down to resetting your DSL between every post or using another proxy (your only options) in order to do so.

Even I could block such posts from here - by having a keyword trigger - say "MD5" and replace the post with blank spaces. But it would be far better for IMC to do this as it would apply to everyone who comes here then.

By the time they are able to stamp your posts with the MD5 warning they are able to *just as easyly* block you entirely...

Then you *have* to go back to using proxies - and I have nearly all the working ones...

Hex, you really are too much.

"From the standpoint of IMC this case is closed..."

Really? You're authorized to speak for the Kollektive?

Did you ask the Kollektive first, or are you just doing it as a community service? Gotta do the thinking for the proles?

"...you just admitted you're a LGF troll here to disrupt/distract and nothing positive"

No, I admitted I post at LGF. Disrupt? Distract? No, I'm here to make fun of you. If my laughter distracts or disrupts you, that's your problem. How do you expect to get your way in the world if you can't take a little ribbing? Sheesh. What a whiner.

"The only other option is to reset your DSL - I guess that DID get tiring."

Dunno; I've never done it. Besides, I don't have DSL. Ask Bush Admirer how much trouble it is to fiddle around with the blocks; he fell victim to the Kollektive's pogrom.

"You've already admitted you're trying to force us to read your garbage by evading it."

No, I'm merely insisting in the same freedom of expression that you enjoy. Not my problem if you're unequipped to handle disagreement.

"Even I could block such posts from here - by having a keyword trigger - say "MD5" and replace the post with blank spaces. But it would be far better for IMC to do this as it would apply to everyone who comes here then."

What, exactly, are you so afraid of? I'm playing softball with you guys. I'm here to have fun. There are people out there who would eat your lunch and slap your momma. If you can't even stand little ol' me having a few chuckles, you will NEVER EVER get your political way in this or any other country.

You do what you think you have to do, Hex.

But if you ban everyone who disagrees with you, this will be one boring site. "Bush sucks!" "No, Israel sucks more!" "Shut up! Michael Moore said Bush sucks, and that's good enough for me!"

Face it...we're doing you a favor.

nonanarchist

*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.