{"article":{"id":101078,"heading":"Former PLO terrorist a most unlikely Zionist","author":"ROSIE DIMANNO","created":"2004-01-23 00:45:39","modified":"2013-11-11 00:28:32","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:28:32","article":"

Perhaps it's not so long or strange a trip from political terrorist to religious fundamentalist.

The secular terrorist, it might even be said, has become something of an endangered species these days, when so many of the world's violent struggles have been infused with religious justification. Piety serves as both motivating tool (recruiting foot soldiers from among the exploited believers) and deflective shield (interpreting scripture to rationalize murder and suppress opposition).

Walid Shoebat grew up a zealous, Jew-hating Muslim in the West Bank, progressing from a boy who threw stones to a young man who lobbed bombs.

He is now a born-again California Christian Zionist, having renounced both violence and Islam, which he persists in viewing as fatally intertwined ? a position that will justifiably appall hundreds of millions of Muslims who neither practise nor condone violent tactics, while causing a great many Jews to just as understandably recoil from his ardent friendship, given that the fundamental Christian literalists love Jews only insofar as they can serve their End of Days purpose, as prophesied in Revelation.

Israel has pitifully few friends these days, assailed on all sides by a new version of anti-Zionism that's no more than the old version of anti-Semitism ? denial of Israel's right to exist, but couched in a different language: the argot of occupation and Israel's perceived abuse of power, coupled with an alarming resurgence of pure anti-Semitism in Europe, a robust bigotry that doesn't even pretend to be what it's not, though hardly more virtuous for its transparency. This isolation might account for Israel forging an unholy alliance with the Christian right, though I'm prepared to accept that many righteous Christians have a genuine affection for Israel, a commitment to its political survival, and do not merely support the state as a Biblical prerequisite for apocalyptic annihilation and the dawning of the New Jerusalem.

In that context, maybe it doesn't matter much that Shoebat is a Christian fundamentalist, widely condemned as a traitor to Palestine, excoriated for betraying his family, his original Muslim faith and his troubled people. For which Shoebat does not apologize. He's had his epiphany, and he speaks with the moral certitude of the enthusiastically converted. \"The more you accept the teachings of the Bible, the more peaceful you become. The more you accept the teachings of the Qur'an, the more violent you will become.\"

This is patently absurd. It is also offensive. But there is truth in the far more qualified observation that Qur'anic teachings (like Biblical teachings, actually) have been disgracefully distorted in some quarters to promote jihad and to demonize the West, Christians and Jews and moderate Muslims alike. Although, it must be noted, even moderate Muslim states have little tolerance for Israel. Hating Israel is a common denominator and not exclusive to Muslim nations.

Hence the mythologizing of Palestinians, transformed these past 20 years into the most darling and blessed of the oppressed. It lends Palestinian terrorism a certain qualified éclat, distinguishing it from the garden-variety version of killers.

Shoebat was once a terrorist. To that extent, he knows whereof he speaks. Though I doubt whether his terrorist CV will gain him much street cred among Palestinians, or Canadians blindly supportive of the Palestinian cause.

The 43-year-old computer programmer was brought to Toronto yesterday by the local chapter of Betar Tagar, an international Zionist organization, to participate in a radio program, entitled Let's Talk Peace, emanating from the University of Toronto. The format had Shoebat interviewed in front of a student audience for a two-hour live taping of a radio show hosted by New York-based Rabia Tovia Singer. It's the first time the show, heard in Israel, has been taken to any university campus. Canada was picked, says Singer, because the case for Israel is not being made, or properly heard, in this country, where pro-Israeli voices have sometimes been silenced by Palestinian activism on campuses.

\"The world does not see the truth about what's happening in the West Bank,\" Shoebat told the Star in an interview yesterday afternoon. \"My purpose is to tell the West that they aren't getting the real picture, that what they're seeing is propaganda. I know the truth because I was there, I was part of it. And the truth is, we wanted to kill Jews long before the occupation. I wanted to kill Jews.\"

Shoebat's mother is a blonde, blue-eyed American Christian who converted to Islam upon marriage, his father a Palestinian Arab and professor of Islamic studies. Born in a village near Bethlehem, Shoebat grew up immersed in Islam but also steeped in hatred for Jews, even though he never met one until his teens. Even during the two years when he attended a Lutheran school in Jericho, says Shoebat, he was taught to vilify Jews. \"I remember going to a zoo in Israel where they had a monkey that smoked cigarettes. We believed that monkey's ancestors were Jews.\"

He recalls throwing stones at Jews worshipping at the Western Wall, and a group of Palestinian boys, of which he was part, almost tearing an Israeli soldier limb from limb.

\"In my village, I started all the riots. Then we'd take off our shirts and yell at the soldiers: `Come on, shoot us! Shoot us!' Of course, they never did. Once I made a club, with a nail in it, for a friend to use against the soldiers. Another time, after we'd attacked soldiers, we were hidden inside a convent. Even the nuns hated the Jews and they helped us get away. That was the day I said to my father, `I almost killed my first Jew today.'\"

On another day, he says, he was sent by the Palestine Liberation Organization to bomb an Israeli bank in Bethlehem. He lobbed the bomb on to the roof seconds before the timed device exploded. No one was killed. But Shoebat, instigator of riots, ultimately ended up in an Israeli jail and, upon release, was sent to the U.S. by his parents. In Chicago, as a leader of the Palestinian youth organization on campus, he raised funds for the PLO, once even bought 1,000 military uniforms that he shipped to Palestinian fighters back home.

This went on until the early '90s, when Shoebat became engaged to a Catholic girl from Mexico. In helping to prepare his fiancée's conversion to Islam, Shoebat spent six months studying both the Bible and the Qur'an. In the end, \"I was the one who converted.\" Not to Catholicism but to evangelical Christianity.

His father disowned him. \"He still calls me at 2 o'clock in the morning and tells me I should be killed. He hates me.\"

For all his newfound religious fervour, his ideological certainty, his raging against the mass brainwashing of Palestinian youth, I suspect there's a part of Shoebat that doesn't entirely like himself either.

\"I wake up every morning, I look in the mirror and I see a traitor. Yes, I see a traitor. But a traitor to what?

\"It's just another label to add to my name.\"<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"http:\/\/www.thestar.com\/NASApp\/cs\/ContentServer?pagename=thestar\/Layout\/Article_Type1&c=Article&cid=1074640510829&call_pageid=968332188492&col=968793972154","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":""The world does not see the truth about what's happening in the West Bank," Shoebat told the Star in an interview yesterday afternoon. "My purpose is to tell the West that they aren't getting the real picture, that what they're seeing is propaganda. I know the truth because I was there, I was part of it. And the truth is, we wanted to kill Jews long before the occupation. I wanted to kill Jews."","numcomment":28,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2004\/01\/101078.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":101079,"heading":"Doesn't surprise me.","article":"Once a terrorist, always a terrorist.\r\n\r\nNazi = Zionist\r\n","author":"Anti-Zionist","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 01:04:07","modified":"2004-01-23 01:04:07","fileurl":""},{"id":101081,"heading":"fresca","article":"Claiming you're "anti-Zionist" is like claiming you're "anti-freedom to live without being murdered".\r\n\r\nThe brightest illustration of the fact that Zionism is the ONLY political movement in the entire middle east that's worthy of support and NOT a candidate for extermination is the fact that all these IMC imbeciles are afraid of it.","author":"fresca","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 01:17:59","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":101084,"heading":"what we need","article":"is for armored bulldozers and snipers to keep the good citizens of the alfuent side of the wall, aware of the terror they deal out. ","author":"Yup","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 01:29:13","modified":"2004-01-23 01:29:13","fileurl":""},{"id":101085,"heading":"more troll bait odd how they are the one's bringing this up too","article":"> Israel has pitifully few friends these days, assailed on all sides by a new version of anti-Zionism that's no more than the old version of anti-Semitism ? denial of Israel's right to exist\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nOrthodox Jews Mass Protest Against the State of Israel\r\n12 February 2002\r\n\r\nEstimated 20,000 Orthodox Jews demonstrated on Tuesday, February 12, 2002, in front of the Israeli Consulate in New York City, organized the the Central Rabbinical Congress of USA and Canada, to voice their opposition to the existence of the state of Israel, their suppression of religion and brutal treatment of religious people.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.jewsagainstzionism.com\/protests.htm\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nSo here's 20,000 JEWS who are against zionism.\r\n\r\nTroll planted articles notwithstanding, the reality of the situation is that most Jews themselves don't support zionists.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nProtocols Forgery Argument is Flawed\r\n \r\nHenry Makow Ph.D. (a Jew BTW)\r\n\r\nNext to the Bible The Protocols of the Elders of Zion is perhaps the mostly widely read book in the world. \r\n\r\nPublished in Russia in 1903, it purports to be the leaked master plan for "Jewish world domination." It is the kind of thing that would be studied at secret workshops of an occult society. \r\n\r\nIn different ways, both Zionists and Nazis have made it synonymous with virulent anti Semitism and genocide. \r\n\r\nBut surely Jews should not be blamed for the machinations of a tiny secret society. The vast majority of Jews would disavow this master plan if they believed it existed. \r\n\r\nSurely one can condemn all racism and genocide in the strongest possible terms and still believe the Protocols are authentic. \r\n\r\nIn my opinion, the equation of the Protocols with anti Semitism is really a ploy to divert attention away from this master plan. \r\n\r\nThe plagiarism claim is part of a propaganda campaign waged by conscious and unconscious collaborators in academia and the media. \r\n\r\n\r\nThe Forgery Claim\r\n\r\nWe are told that The Protocols of Zion is a hoax, a "proven forgery" concocted by the Tsarist Political Police (the Okhrana) to incite anti Semitism and discredit revolutionaries. \r\n\r\nBut the "proof" is far from convincing. \r\n\r\nIt consists of three articles published in The London Times (August 16-18, 1921) by Philip Graves. www.rense.com\/general45\/proto.htm \r\n\r\nAccording to Graves, Protocols is a crude, chapter-by-chapter plagiarism of Maurice Joly's Dialogue in Hell Between Machiavelli and Montesquieu (1864). \r\n\r\nIt was easy to make this claim while Joly's book was unavailable. Napolean III's police confiscated it as soon as it was published. \r\n\r\nBut it is available now and I invite you to compare the two texts. In my opinion, they are entirely different in tone, content and purpose. At 140 pages, Dialogues is twice as long as Protocols. Most of it finds no echo in the Protocols. \r\n\r\nThe crux of Graves' argument is that certain references and passages in Protocols have been lifted from Dialogues. He claims there are 50 of these and produces about a dozen. \r\n\r\nTheir striking resemblance to the Protocols leaves little doubt that the author did refer to the Dialogues as part of his research. He had no compunction about borrowing or reshaping a few passages that appealed to him. \r\n\r\nIndeed Philip Graves is "struck by the absence of any effort on the part of the plagiarist to conceal his plagiarisms." \r\n\r\nThat's because he had nothing to hide. He was not Graves' "unimportant precis- writer employed by the court or by the Okhrana" to construct a hoax. \r\n\r\nHe was a diabolical genius crafting an original work. It is simplistic and disingenuous to characterize Protocols as a hoax. \r\n\r\n\r\nPolitical Provenance\r\n\r\nGraves' article smacks of Zionist propaganda. Graves "expose" of the Protocols appeared in August 1921 when Zionists were pressing the League of Nations to turn Palestine into a Jewish homeland under British Mandate. \r\n\r\nPhilip Grave tells the unlikely story that a "Mr. X" brought the Dialogues to him in Constantinople where he was the Times' correspondent. Mr. X presented it as "irrefutable proof" that the Protocols are a plagiarism. \r\n\r\nMr. X was a White Russian, which seems incredible given the Jewish role in the Bolshevik Revolution. He claims he bought the book from, get this, "a former member of the Okhrana" who had fled to Constantinople. \r\n\r\nIn The Controversy of Zion, (Chapter 34) Douglas Reed, a Times' staffer, provides additional background. \r\n\r\nIn May 1920, Lord Northcliffe, a part owner of The Times, printed an article about the Protocols of Zion entitled The Jewish Peril, A Disturbing Pamphlet, A Call for an Enquiry. " It concluded: \r\n\r\n"An impartial investigation of these would-be documents and their history is most desirable...are we to dismiss the whole matter without inquiry and to let the influence of such a book as this work unchecked?" \r\n\r\nThen in May 1922 Northcliffe visited Palestine and wrote that Britain had been too hasty to promise it to the Jewish people when in fact it belonged to 700,000 Muslim Arab residents. \r\n\r\nMr. Wickham Steed, the editor of The Times of London in 1921 refused to print the article and Northcliffe tried to get him fired. \r\n\r\nSomehow Steed was able to have Northcliffe declared "insane" and committed. Later Northcliffe complained he was being poisoned and died suddenly in 1922. \r\n\r\nDouglas Reed was Northcliffe's secretary but didn't learn of these events until they appeared in Official History of the Times in the 1950's. \r\n\r\nClearly Northcliffe had offended some "big boys" when he opposed the British Mandate in Palestine. Why was it so important? \r\n\r\nIsrael is intended to be the capital of the Masonic World Government. They are already constructing the infrastructure. See "The Roots of Evil in Jerusalem" http:\/\/thegoldenreport.com\/articles.asp?id=00180 \r\n\r\n\r\nThe Forgery Claim in Detail\r\n\r\nPhilip Graves and the other apologists are incorrect to claim the Protocols plagiarize the Dialogues chapter by chapter. \r\n\r\nGraves writes that "the Seventh Dialogue...corresponds with the fifth, sixth, seventh and part of the eighth Protocol. " \r\n\r\nAt eight pages, these Protocols are twice as long as the Seventh Dialogue. \r\n\r\nThey mostly contain material not in the Seventh Dialogue, or anywhere else I can find. I will list a few examples from Protocol Five alone. \r\n\r\nProtocol Five says "our kingdom will be distinguished by a despotism of such magnificent proportions" that it will "wipe out any goyim who oppose us by deed or word." \r\n\r\nIn contrast Seventh Dialogue says, "Death, expropriation and torture should only play a minor role in the internal politics of modern states." \r\nProtocols Five says we "robbed [the goyim] of their faith in God" and "insinuated into their minds the conception of their own rights" thereby undermining the authority of Kings. There is nothing comparable in Dialogue Seven. \r\n\r\nProtocol Five says, "we shall so wear down the goyim that they will be compelled to offer us international power [allowing us] gradually to absorb all State forces of the world and to form a Super-Government." There is nothing comparable in Dialogue Seven. \r\n\r\nProtocol Five says the "engine" of all states is "in our hands" and that engine is "Gold." "We were chosen by God Himself to rule over the whole earth." There is nothing comparable in Dialogue Seven. \r\n\r\n\r\nOn the Other Hand\r\n\r\nThe author of Protocols does select a few passages or references from Dialogues that appear unaltered (see Graves) or in different form. \r\n\r\nFor example, the Dialogues' say: " Everywhere might precedes right. Political liberty is merely a relative idea. The need to live is what dominates states as it does individuals." \r\n\r\nIn Protocols this becomes, "From the law of nature right lies in might. Political freedom is an idea but not a fact, and one must know how to use it [political freedom] as a bait whenever it appears necessary to attract the masses ... to one's party for the purpose of crushing another who is in authority." (Protocols 1) \r\n\r\nGraves leaves out the last part to make the resemblance seem greater than it is. \r\n\r\nDialogues (7) say, "Revolutionary ferment which is suppressed in one's own country should be incited throughout Europe." \r\n\r\nIn Protocols (7) "Throughout all Europe ... we must create ferments, discords, hostilities." There is no reference to suppressing these in one's own country. \r\n\r\nThe author of Protocols is not a forger creating a hoax, but a conspirator forging an original work. \r\n\r\n\r\nSame Genre, Different Conceptions\r\n\r\nBoth books belong to the "immoral school" of political theory. Machiavelli pays homage to a long list of rulers "who are progenitors of my doctrine." Both preach might makes right, good comes from evil, and the end justifies the means. \r\n\r\nBut the similarity ends there. The tone of the Dialogues is dry and theoretical. \r\n\r\nIt is a debate between fictional political theorists: Montesquieu a champion of democracy and Machiavelli, a champion of tyranny. Dialogues is considered a critique of the reign of Napolean III. \r\n\r\nMontesquieu asks how to quell the spirit of anarchy in society. Machiavelli prescribes a "monster called the state" which maintains a democratic artifice but is actually controlled by the "Prince." He talks about how to suppress secret societies. \r\n\r\nOn the other hand, Protocols is the product of a secret society. It is frankly conspiratorial and subversive and pays homage to Lucifer. Protocols is a "strategic plan from which we cannot deviate without running the risk of seeing the labour of many centuries come to naught." (Protocol 1) \r\n\r\nUnlike Dialogues, we are struck by a sense of relevance when reading Protocols. We recognize its baneful influence in today's world. See my articles "Did Rothschild Write The Protocols of Zion?" "Protocols is the Illuminati Blueprint" and "Protocols Dominates Our Culture." \r\n\r\n\r\nPropaganda\r\n\r\nSince Graves' articles, there have been a number of books arguing the "forgery" thesis. The latest is Norman Cohn, Warrant for Genocide (1970). http:\/\/users.cyberone.com.au\/myers\/cohn.html \r\n\r\nGraves and Cohn admit that "the Financial Programme" (Protocols 20-24) which the author calls "the crowning and decisive point of our plans" is largely original. \r\n\r\nFor serious researchers, Australian researcher Peter Myers presents pro and con views. \r\nhttp:\/\/users.cyberone.com.au\/myers\/toolkit.html \r\n\r\nGoebbels said that propaganda is effective only when the reader doesn't realize it is propaganda. It follows that dupes write the best propaganda. For example, see Rick Salutin, Protocols of Zion's Critics. www.theglobeandmail.com\/servlet\/ArticleNews\/TPStory\/LAC\/20031212\/COSALU12\/TPColumnists\/ \r\n\r\n\r\nConclusion\r\n\r\nOne hundred million people were slaughtered in the last century but no one considers that the human race might have been subverted. \r\n\r\nWar is hell but no one thinks Satan worshipers might be behind it. \r\n\r\nI suspect the Second World War was a battle for racial superiority between Jewish and Aryan wings of the Illuminati who in fact are united at the top. \r\n\r\nThe private central bankers of England, the U.S. and Nazi Germany made the war possible. They worked as one at the Bank of International Settlements in Switzerland. (See Charles Higham, Trading With the Enemy.) \r\n\r\nThe purpose of the war was to degrade, defraud and demoralize humanity. The Holocaust provided a rationale for the establishment of Israel as headquarters of the New World Order. Aryans, Jews and many others were sacrificed and exploited. \r\n\r\nIn my opinion, the outlawing of Protocols on pain of death in Bolshevik Russia and its execration in the West today proves its authenticity. \r\n\r\nMankind is in the grip of a diabolical conspiracy. In order to make good people do bad things, truth must be tailored to fit the political purpose. This is Communist and Feminist teaching. \r\n\r\nI would like to be proven wrong, but in the case of Protocols, the "forgery" argument is propaganda. \r\n\r\n \r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-01-23 01:29:44","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:37","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/hassidim.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/hassidim.jpg"}},{"id":101086,"heading":"fresca","article":"Alright hex. Enough with the spewing of someone else's thoughts. Here's a cahance for you to think and express for yourself.\r\n\r\n"I've said plenty of times on this site and others that Israel should make the first overtures of peace and dismantle the settlements. \r\n\r\nYou've read and replied to those posts but you never respond to that point. \r\n\r\nI've also said that Israel needs to roll back military actions of retaliation. \r\n\r\nYou, however have never even come CLOSE to stating what you would consider steps to peace other than the destruction of Israel, by virtue of cutting off aid. \r\n\r\nIt's irrefutable that in the last decade, the periods of the most concessions from Israel have resulted in an INCREASE in Islamic terrorism. \r\n\r\nYou know as well as I do that groups like Hamas and Al aqsa don't give a FUCK about land. They simply want to kill Jews because of religion. Try and lie and spin it anyway you want but that's a fact. \r\n\r\nOur aid is the only thing that keeps Isarel defended against increasing attacks which come wether they give in or not, because no matter what they do and no matter how much land they give to "palestinians" they will always be Jews. And the racists of Hamas will always want to kill them. \r\n\r\nUntil the palestinian people rise up and cut out the cancer of their own terrorists then peace will never happen. And as long as people like you are unwilling to even acknowledge the cause and effect of racist Arab terrorism, nothing will happen. \r\n\r\nI'll say it agin so you understand. Isarel MUST dismantle the settlements and give the disputed areas of Egypt, Syria and Jordan to the "palestinians" so a Palestinian state can come into being. Furthermore, Israel must remove all military presence from these disputed terrirtoties. They should also get someone much less reactionary than Sharon behind the wheel. \r\n\r\nAll that said, "palestine" must cease it's war of hate and be willing to accept, for the first time, responsibility for it's actions over the last 8 or 9 decades. \r\n\r\nSo there Hex. What's your plan? I'm very curious as to wheteher you'll even respond. \r\n\r\nLet's just cut out all the bullshit for a second and discuss this. \r\n\r\nWhat dya' say? \r\n"\r\n\r\n\r\nSo Hex, any thoughts of your own?","author":"fresca","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 01:33:39","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":101087,"heading":"Wow...I always suspected, of course.","article":"Hex Anon w\/Encryption is an unabashed Jew-hater.\r\n\r\nHe thinks the Protocols are authentic.\r\n\r\nHex, you truly are a useful idiot for all who want to wipe out Jews.\r\n\r\nYou're a sad, twisted person.\r\n\r\nnonanarchist\n\n*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.","author":";lkj;lkh","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 01:41:56","modified":"2004-01-23 01:41:56","fileurl":""},{"id":101088,"heading":"ZOA:Palestinian Arab Violations of Roadmap - January 19, 2004","article":"http:\/\/www.imra.org.il\/story.php3?id=19507\r\n\r\nTuesday, January 20, 2004\t\r\nZOA:Palestinian Arab Violations of Roadmap - January 19, 2004 \t\r\nJanuary 20, 2004 Palestinian Arab Violations of President Bush's "Road\r\nMap" Plan A Survey of Week #38: January 13, 2004 - January 19, 2004\r\n\r\nBACKGROUND: On June 24, 2002, President Bush set forth the conditions\r\nthat the Palestinian Arabs must fulfill in order to merit U.S. support for\r\nthe creation of a Palestinian Arab state. Among the major obligations are\r\nthat the Palestinian Arabs must "dismantle the terrorist infrastructure,"\r\n"end incitement," "elect new leaders not compromised by terror," and\r\nunequivocally embrace democracy and free market economics. None of those\r\nconditions were fulfilled.\r\n\r\n[...]\r\n\r\nThe Road Map requires the Palestinian Arabs to undertake concrete steps to\r\ncombat terrorist groups and democratize Palestinian Arab society. Those\r\nobligations, which are quoted below, were supposed to have been fulfilled\r\nduring Phase 1 of the Road Map, which concluded at the end of May 2003, but\r\nthey were not.\r\n\r\nThis report analyzes Palestinian Arab violations of those obligations during\r\nthe 38th week following the unveiling of the Road Map plan, Jan.13 - Jan.19,\r\n2004.\r\n\r\nI. "Cease All Violence" What They Are Required to Do: The Road Map\r\nstates: "In Phase 1 [May 2003], the Palestinians immediately undertake an\r\nunconditional cessation of violence." They did not do so.\r\n\r\nWhat They Did During Week #38: During week #38, Jan. 13-19, 2004, there\r\nwere at least 20 terrorist attacks or attempted attacks, in which 5 people\r\nwere murdered and 15 wounded.\r\n\r\n(During the first 38 weeks since the Road Map was issued, there have been a\r\ntotal of at least 954 Palestinian Arab terrorist attacks or attempted\r\nattacks, in which 140 people were murdered and 743 wounded.)\r\n\r\n*****************\r\n\r\nRead the whole thing. Not one step the Palestinians agreed to do was accomplished.\r\n\r\nReal interested in peace, aren't they.\r\n\r\nnonanarchist\n\n*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.","author":";lklkjhkjg","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 01:51:45","modified":"2004-01-23 01:51:45","fileurl":""},{"id":101089,"heading":"ooooooooooooo!!","article":"must have poured some salt on an open sore spot.\r\nThat's what I call a howl of rage.\r\nHa Ha","author":"Yup","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 02:03:38","modified":"2004-01-23 02:03:38","fileurl":""},{"id":101090,"heading":"I hate when *I* say so - not some troll with no evidence","article":"> It's irrefutable \/ that's a fact\r\n\r\nso you read all that in 4 minutes did you - so you know all about facts I see.\r\n\r\nSo much in "fact" you find yourself skimming over them then *telling other people what they think, stand for or feel* - typical reactionary tactic.\r\n\r\nFact is merely a word to be tossed around in a game. While I spend hours researching to post these revelations which I actually save until the right moment comes along (in case you haven't noticed - I didn't publish an article about zionism, I waited until someone ELSE did and then simply corrected it USING said facts I've been saving) you don't even take the time to read the data that's presented by a JEW or the protests by JEWS much less follow the links for further information as penned directly above.\r\n\r\nInsted we're treated to more of the same BS devoid of any facts at all, then asked to "prove" even more facts when *you didn't even read what's been presented already*, with useless diversionary posturing and other fun trolls love to engage in - the one thing you are good at. \r\n\r\nAnd then nonbrainious shows up *right on queue* as usual - the timestamps strongly suggesting either you are one and the same or at the very least in close contact - working together as a tag-team to browbeat the scary truth monster into submission..\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nI've stated before I'm merely a researcher who among other subjects collect dirt on zionists, the JDL, the ADL, etc.\r\n\r\nCollecting FACTS does not lend one emotion\/feelings and this activity does not automaticly generate solutions to raise the game to yet another level of "my solution is better than yours" as neither party\/solution would ever be implimented anyway and is therefore yet another distraction. But when the frightening truth is revealed those who are against it seeing the light of day panic and do anything they can to distract from it.\r\n\r\nNot a single point presented above was even addressed - insted we get more strawman attacks and rhetoric.\r\n\r\nMy solution of course is obvious\r\n\r\nKeep presenting the facts - the fruit of my research efforts, in a timely manner as falsehoods are posted. The perfect solution to lies and liars - no ?\r\n\r\nPS. I don't hate - anybody, as thats emotional baggage I have no use for. This is research into the facts, not a game. We've been down this road before...","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-01-23 02:07:10","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:37","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/dismantle_zion.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/dismantle_zion.jpg"}},{"id":101091,"heading":"And the body count says;","article":"Since the beginning of the Palestinian uprising on 29 September 2000 the Israeli army has killed more than 2,200 Palestinians, including 400 children." \r\n\r\n"While claiming that it seeks to avoid harming the Palestinian population the Israeli army tanks and aircraft continue to shell densely populated Palestinian refugee camps and residential areas, knowing that such reckless fire will cause heavy civilian casualties." \r\n\r\nSource: Amnesty International\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-01-23 02:15:02","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:37","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/palestinian_tanks_in_israel.jpgieqpso.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/palestinian_tanks_in_israel.jpgieqpso.jpg"}},{"id":101093,"heading":"fresca","article":"Hex. You're simply a monster.\r\n\r\nYou have simply flat out shown that you are a garden variety racist of the lunatic fringe variety.\r\n\r\nKeep on with all your analysis of "troll tactics" and your obfuscation of direct questions.\r\n\r\nYou don't have a leg to stand on.\r\n\r\nNO ONE here thinks of you as anything but a fucking creep.\r\n\r\nSig Heil Nazi.","author":"fresca","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 02:55:12","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":101095,"heading":""You're simply a monster" yes, the truth monster","article":"And jerry is "NO ONE"\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-01-23 03:23:50","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:38","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/heres_jerrys_monster.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/heres_jerrys_monster.jpg"}},{"id":101099,"heading":"fresca","article":"Isarel and "palestine" will eventually work out a peace without lunatic scum like you.\r\n\r\nYou'll be left all alone hating Jews and the Palestinians will thank you to kindly go away.\r\n\r\nPost some more pics utterly proving me right as you do every time.\r\n\r\nI'll leave you with this gem of schizophrenia..."I suspect the Second World War was a battle for racial superiority between Jewish and Aryan wings of the Illuminati who in fact are united at the top. "","author":"fresca","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 03:36:34","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":101101,"heading":"speaking of creeps","article":"this pretty well sums it up I think...\r\n\r\nJerry (fresca et al) is fond of calling people "sub-human" and "death to all muslims" and so on..\r\n\r\nWhile I keep repeating under attack that *I hate nobody*.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-01-23 03:41:56","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:38","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/no_haters.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/no_haters.jpg"}},{"id":101102,"heading":"Post some more pics - thank you may I have another ?","article":"You know my photo expose' is waiting in the wings.\r\n\r\nAnd real photographs have much more impact than troll mud. And who benefits from mud slinging - besides the troll of course ?\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-01-23 03:50:23","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:38","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/israeli_soldiers_harassing_woman.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/israeli_soldiers_harassing_woman.jpg"}},{"id":101103,"heading":"fresca","article":""Jerry (fresca et al) is fond of calling people "sub-human" and "death to all muslims" and so on.. \r\n\r\nWhile I keep repeating under attack that *I hate nobody*. \r\n"\r\n\r\nBeyond the fact that Jerry is a fictional character you've concocted, the fact remains that I've never said death to all muslims (Find it..it's not there) and I've only called people like Islamists, KKK members, Nazi's, and you subhuman simply because it's true.\r\n\r\nYou continue to TYPE that you hate no one yet your every post is filled with your theories about the Jews trying to control the world. The Jews being baby killers. The Jews concocting WW2 as a struggle to domminate the world racially.\r\n\r\nIf that isn't hate then it doesn't exist.\r\n\r\nI keep responding because it's fun. The fact is, is that you prove yourself a monster all by yourself.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 04:00:31","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":101105,"heading":"so jerry is fictional you say ?","article":"\r\nThursday, October 17, 2002\r\nSlow and Steady Doesn't Always Win the Race...\r\n\r\nOur friend Jerry over at Milblog (see link at left)\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/milblog.org\/\r\n\r\nDem Self-Destruct Watch Update\r\nThese are the ratings when we last left our bunch of intrepid candidates, preparing for their fearsome encounter with the Iowa caucases. Pray for them - because I sure won't. Except maybe for Lieberman, that he become a Repub. I think he's getting sick of the whole Democratic system.\r\n\r\nUn-Electables\r\n\r\n00 points left --- Carol Mosley Braun --- Bowed out. Will be removed from next list. \r\n00 points left --- Dennis Kucinich \r\n00 points left --- Al Sharpton \r\n\r\nMaybe Good Enoughs \r\n\r\n95 points left --- Joe Liberman\r\n15 points left --- John Edwards\r\n00 points left --- John Kerry\r\n\r\nLikely Good Enoughs \r\n\r\n05 points left --- Howard Dean\r\n05 points left --- Wesley Clark\r\n35 points left --- Dick Gephardt\r\n\r\nThe campaigning's been pretty fierce, and Dean's been showing both flashes of temper and starting to wear with the unions. Drop him 10 points - and with this next round, we're going to let the characters get into negative numbers.\r\n\r\nCarter says Dean called him to ask for support. Drop him 5 for a solicited endorsement. Another 5, people are starting to look into his past, and it's not surprising he wanted his records sealed. Total, -20.\r\n\r\nUpdate: Carter says he didn't invite Dean to church. Drop another 10 for spinning events in ways that didn't happen.\r\n\r\nMcGovern endorses Clark. Wait, I thought McGovern was dead... no advantage either way. Papaer's questioning his forced retirement from CINC-Nato. Pull 5 points. Also, inconsistencies are being reported in his stance re the war. Still clueless on the economy. Total, down 10.\r\n\r\nKerry's been making progress, gathering endorsements, getting his message out - raise him by 15.\r\n\r\nLieberman's been getting endorsements, but still not moving up - no points either way.\r\nGephardt's been maintaining a low profile - probably a good idea at this point. No points, either way.\r\nEdwards - moving up, getting support, but playing class card pretty heavily - up 10, down 20.\r\n\r\nKucinich - less than 5% support in Iowa. Down 5.\r\n\r\nSharpton - Running out of cash, not getting matching funds, lost DC election, losing support in Black and Latino communities. Down 20. Expect him to bail shortly, possibly this week.\r\n\r\nUn-Electables\r\n\r\n- 05 points, -05 points left --- Dennis Kucinich \r\n- 20 points, -20 points left --- Al Sharpton \r\n\r\nMaybe Good Enoughs \r\n\r\n- 00 points, 95 points left --- Joe Liberman\r\n- 10 points, 05 points left --- John Edwards\r\n+ 15 points, 25 points left --- John Kerry\r\n\r\nLikely Good Enoughs \r\n\r\n- 30 points, -25 points left --- Howard Dean\r\n- 10 points, -15 points left --- Wesley Clark\r\n- 00 points, +35 points left --- Dick Gephardt\r\n\r\nWe'll see where it goes! Still thinking Lieberman\/Gephardt, but it could be Lieberman\/Kerry. I'm heading to bed, I've dozed off twice while writing this...\r\n\r\nJ.\r\n\r\n\r\nPosted by Jerry at 11:11 PM | Comments (0) \r\n\r\nIn case you're wondering why non-meat related articles show up here on occasion -\r\n\r\nI use Blogger.com to do my blogs. It works pretty well, but there's a little utility you can download so yoiu can highlight things in Internet Explorer and then save them more or less directly to the blog. I've got three mainline blogs, milblog, oilblog, and meatblog - and the utility has a dropdown list so I can select which blog I want to put something in.\r\n\r\n\r\nMeatblog is the first on the list. And often I forget to change which blog the item goes into, with the result that something Mil related goes into Meatblog. I usually catch it pretty fast, but sometimes it may be a day or more before things get filed away properly.\r\n\r\n\r\nSo if something doesn't seem to fit it's not because you're in the wrong blog - I just forget sometimes to designate which blog I want it to go into.\r\n\r\n\r\nJ.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nposted by Jerry Lawson \/ Sunday, August 04, 2002\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/meatblog.blogspot.com\/2002_08_04_meatblog_archive.html\r\n\r\n\r\nDaily Pundit Archives\r\n... Over at MilBlog, Jerry Lawson says he'd feel soothed if gun-toting airline\r\npilots posted their last target from the range on the cockpit door. ... \r\nwww.dailypundit.com\/archives\/003923.php\r\n\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/oilblog.blogspot.com\/\r\n\r\nTuesday, June 17, 2003\r\n \r\nWell, fine. I'll put this here then...\r\n\r\nTimes Online \r\n\r\nnever imagined when I wrote on this page in March about the plastic shredder used to kill in one of Saddam’s prisons that I would, some months later, read in a chillingly meticulous record book that one of the methods of execution was “mincing”. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nnotice jerry talks about *exactly* the same subjects and has *exactly* the same attitudes as "fresca et al"\r\n\r\n\r\nFriday, February 07, 2003\r\n \r\nCAMMO CHIC\r\nWhen it comes to hiding in plain sight, forget about the Japanese invisibility cloak. Check out CADPAT and MARPAT, the new digitally-generated camouflage patterns developed by the Canadian military and modified by the U.S. Marines. Samples of the new Forest, Desert, and Urban patterns are online, and they look...weird. But Jerry Lawson at MilBlog says they look great in person:\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n"I had the chance to see this stuff close up - and it tricks the eye something fierce. You literally don't want to look at it, your mind registers it as grass or something and you look away. I was looking at a group of 3 marines in good fluorescent light, and it was real hard to keep my eyes on the fabric."\r\n\r\nPosted by Jerry at 04:40 PM | Comments (0) \r\nThe Aussies get it.\r\nThey like Bush, and they are not stupid\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-01-23 04:33:23","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:38","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/jerry_and_his_friends.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/jerry_and_his_friends.jpg"}},{"id":101108,"heading":"EXACTLY the same - look at this","article":"Never mind we don't seem to have anything documented on Israelis deliberately killing Palestinians that aren't actively trying to kill them first. A certain amount of creative license is expected...\r\n\r\nNever mind that this is from Arafat's channel. Who, as has been mentioned by others "asking Arafat to refrain from terrorism is like asking Tiger Woods to not play golf."\r\n\r\nNever mind that this commercial doesn't encourage trying to make a better world TODAY - just blow yourself up or get killed by the Israelis and you'll have a brighter tomorrow...\r\n\r\nIt's a culture of death. Pathological, un-sane, and perverse. As such - it could either be encouraged to continue (which is bad) or stopped, which would be almost as bad.\r\n\r\nNo easy answers - just readily apparent questions...\r\n\r\nJ.\r\n\r\nposted by Jerry Lawson at 5:29 PM \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nThursday, June 27, 2002\r\n \r\nTownHall.com: Conservative Columnists: Dennis Prager \r\nWhy does the left support the Palestinians?\r\n\r\nWhy does the left support the Palestinians against Israel? \r\n\r\nThe question is rarely asked. It is simply taken for granted that the left -- Europe, the Western news media, the universities, the liberal churches, the arts world -- supports the Palestinians and the larger Arab\/Muslim worlds in their war against Israel. \r\nBut the question does need to be asked. For it is completely inconsistent with the left's professed values to side with Israel's enemies. Just about every value the left claims to uphold Israel upholds and its enemies do not. \r\n\r\nThe left speaks about its passion for democracy ("power to the people"). Yet it is Israel that is a fully functioning democracy, as opposed to all of its Arab and Muslim enemies. Yasser Arafat is precisely the self-aggrandizing, corrupt dictator-type that the left claims to hold in contempt. \r\nGood question... And the answer the author comes up with makes a LOT of sense.\r\n\r\nJ.\r\n\r\nposted by Jerry Lawson at 10:59 PM \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n \r\nInternational Watch - June 17, 2002 - The Ornery American - By Orson Scott Card \r\nYou Can't Have Peace When the Enemy Wants War\r\n\r\nThe coalition is killing us. \r\n\r\nThe trouble is, without allies, this war is going to be very hard to win -- not without turning it into a world war between Islam and America. \r\n\r\nWe don't want to fight that war. \r\n\r\nBut Osama bin Laden, Hezbollah, Islamic Jihad, and their ilk -- that's what they'd like best. \r\n\r\nAre they crazy? \r\n\r\nWell, yes. I mean, they send suicide bombers to kill people who aren't doing them any harm. Of course they're crazy. \r\n\r\nBut that doesn't mean they're stupid. Their objective is to send the world up in flames. Why? Because right now, the Muslim world is pretty near the bottom of the hierarchy of nations, and it's very hard to reconcile that with the promises of the Qur'an. \r\nSo, if by following your religion you are being outproduced by the rest of the world, the solution is to force the world to stop producing. Not change the way YOU work, but change the rest of the world.\r\n\r\nRight?\r\n\r\nRrrright....\r\n\r\nJ. \r\nposted by Jerry Lawson at 10:51 PM \r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryprion","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 05:03:31","modified":"2004-01-23 05:03:31","fileurl":""},{"id":101125,"heading":"What's the matter jerry ?","article":"Me exposing your blogs seems to have taken the "fun" out of you on here.\r\n\r\nYou should know better than to challenge me to produce data - I've said and shown how I save things for just the right time, that I have dirt ready and waiting...\r\n\r\nSuddenly "fresca" AND nonbrainious both disappear when "they" were on a roll ? When "they" always get in the last word - usually by one last mud sling that doesn't address any issue raised.\r\n\r\nShall I post the "J." spam you posted on the main IMC with the over 100 "death to all Muslims" and so on ? \r\n\r\nThe "J." posts on LGF signed "Jerry", the blog URLS you left on there, the same "J." signed JERRY LAWSON (look above) at the same URL's ?\r\n\r\n\r\nAll these posts have one thing in common, your anti-Left\/Islam\/Democrat attitudes. That provides yet another connection. (6)\r\n\r\n2 IP's I found tie you to the same geographical area where you talk about the military base in your blogs as well.\r\n\r\nJerry Lawson, a retired military cheetos warrior who lives in Chesnee, NC. A LGF troll who came here to disrupt and distract...\r\n\r\nYou [removed] your personal information from whoswhere, have a non-published phone number, but 1-800-SEARCH did provide your town, and the IP's I found trace back there.\r\n\r\nI also did background checks on your entire family - the pic I posted several days ago is a relative of yours who is a sex offender. I did a federal background check as well - a couple of your kin are convicts, same deal - sex offences..\r\n\r\nNice family you have\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2004-01-23 07:33:08","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:38","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/002000285.jpgauzteg.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/002000285.jpgauzteg.jpg"}},{"id":101128,"heading":"Hee hee!","article":"Nice to know your lunacy is at least consistent, Hex.\r\n\r\nSeems like the biggest part of what you laughingly call "proof" is the "fact" that:\r\n\r\n--Several people seem to share the same opinions.\r\n\r\nOoooh! That's good enough for me! Wow! That means that you and David Duke are the same person, then. That's all the proof that's required, seemingly. You both hate Jews.\r\n\r\nAs for the rest of your nonsense, I live in SC, dolt. \r\n\r\n"Suddenly "fresca" AND nonbrainious both disappear..."\r\n\r\nHad things to do. Life, the Universe, and Everything. Sorry to burst you little bubble of triumph, but as you'll notice, I don't feel any single shred of need to live up to your expectations. Too bad, so sad.\r\n\r\nGo ahead and post the "J." spam...whatever that is. It will prove...ta-da!...NOTHING. \r\n\r\nOh, and keep posting this Jerry Lawson's personal stuff.\r\n\r\nMaybe he'll sue the homemade cables off ya. Hah!\r\n\r\nnonanarchist\n\n*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.","author":"';lj;lkjkjh","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 11:04:12","modified":"2004-01-23 11:04:12","fileurl":""},{"id":101131,"heading":"Now, Hex...","article":"...do you have any comment on the original article?\r\n\r\nYou remember...the one that says Palestinian terrorism has nothing to do with the occupation. They just want to kill Jews.\r\n\r\nDo you have any comment?\r\n\r\nLook at it this way...you have yet another opportunity to denounce the terrorist tactics used by those you support.\r\n\r\nI can't WAIT to see exactly how you fail to denounce terrorism and instead shift the blame to those being terrorized!\r\n\r\nnonanarchist\n\n*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.","author":"lkj;lkjhhj","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 12:45:10","modified":"2004-01-23 12:45:10","fileurl":""},{"id":101132,"heading":""Had things to do" - what find more cheetos ?","article":"that's the best you could come up with after 7 hours ?\r\n\r\n\r\nfresca is *specifically* the handle I traced back to "kobe duke" where the IP's show 3 handles from the same address ;\r\n\r\nkobe duke\r\nfresca\r\nnonbrainiouns\r\n\r\nbut the IP's also showed this;\r\n\r\nkobe sbm\r\nnonbrainiouns\r\nfresca\r\n\r\nthis shows you *swap handles* between yourself and ned rendering handles alone useless - good thing the IP's showed what was really going on\r\n\r\nthe only 2 *real persons* I've traced back to are you & ned, both of you posting under multible handles...\r\n\r\nI did follow the progression\r\n\r\n1.) jerry starts some blogs\r\n2.) jerry starts posting on LGF\r\n3.) jerry becomes a kobe\r\n4.) jerry becomes a troll on here - tied to ned's influence who was already trolling here\r\n\r\nanother kobe I found evidence on is "scott" - a scott works at compNLA..\r\n\r\nit appears one or two other people *occasionally* posted as various kobe handles but most of the time the "core" of kobe, JERRY AND NED did all the posting both using multible handles.\r\n\r\nSpecifically, jerry posts *for* ned while ned returns the favor and posts for jerry (both freely exchanging handles, as getting people to believe kobe was anything more than two (2) people playing games was a high priority.)\r\n\r\nThe IP's show these things to be true, the only way the IP's can be wrong ;\r\n\r\n1.) you used the same proxies that escaped my checks\r\n2.) the person posted from your house\r\n3.) you used VPN to tunnel to the other person's house\r\n\r\nI saw several sets of posts where the handles involved shared the same IP, I also saw DeVoy posting as various handles ALSO from the same IP and playing about the same games. This is why I don't buy his sob story about how a *known* stalker totally terrorized him - as I saw him *enjoying himself*, mostly as different handles (but the same IP) playing the same mud slinging games "kobe" was, his excuse doesn't wash when you see just how childish he was, there seems to be a problem with him vastly overstating his abilities and morals. I wouldn't go as far as saying he's a "mole" or a right-winger playing at being an anarchist and his web sites are honeypots (although there's evidence to suggest this and other people have accused him of it) because the data I found is inconclusive on him.\r\n\r\nJerry though is a different story - there's 5 parallel tracks leading directly back to him and the profile (says exactly the same things, exactly the same attitude) makes 6\r\n\r\nNed was also throughly pinned down - that's why he has disappeared, as he can't afford to have his business ruined. Jerry is retired (he's moved and changed ISP's recently)\r\n\r\nfrom what I could determine he used to live on the base or nearby, with his old ISP\r\n\r\nthen he retired, moved to Chesnee and got a new DSL provider\r\n\r\nI stopped tracking him several months ago as the kobe problem wrapped up - all this data with the exception of some of his blog material posted above is old.\r\n\r\nI've seen enough and playing his "guess who I am today" games is a waste of time - the data I'm refering to goes back to 3 years ago - look at the timestamps above.\r\n\r\nalmost all the data is from a time when he wasn't being nearly as secretive and careful - this is how I traced him down...\r\n\r\nfresca the deny-at-all-costs troll would of course NEVER admit to anything, it's IMC and it's partons this data is directed at.\r\n\r\nAll IMC has to do is check the IP's of the troll posts and do a whois and see if they go back to the same geographical area (the north carolina\/south carolina border area where the military bases are - his old and new addresses)\r\n\r\nAll IMC patrons have to do is read the blogs and compare what is written (I only posted a few samples)\r\n\r\nYou'll see in some cases almost *word for word* the same crap that he's posted on here.\r\n\r\nThe shredder\r\nThe "left's support of terrorists"\r\nThe "israel can do no wrong" attitude\r\nThe "democrats must lose"\r\nThe "sub-human" - they deserve death attitude\r\nThe same military background\r\nThe same AGE\r\nThe same geographical area\r\n\r\nThen the IP's, the spam on the main IMC, the posts on LGF where he signs "jerry", his blogs mentioned on LGF, and his blogs signed jerry lawson...\r\n\r\nprobable cause - there's enough evidence to establish probable cause, just as there is with ned.\r\n\r\nIn a civil suit I would win as I have a preponderance of evidence.\r\n\r\nthe picture above is public data due to the convict being a sex offender, all the data I obtained is both public and free - I wasn't willing to spend any money to do a proper search, this is just what I could obtain for free. IMC staff feel free to do with this as you wish as this thread was started by a troll anyway - I'd hide it myself for that reason alone. But neither the article nor these comments are news, you don't see ME whining about hidden posts, it's not that important...\r\n\r\nIt's good to get all the data on the table though - at least we can see who the trolls really are...\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 14:29:21","modified":"2004-01-23 14:29:21","fileurl":""},{"id":101134,"heading":"fresca","article":"This is all so ....boring.\r\n\r\nHex couldn't identify a shovel if it hit him in the ass.\r\n\r\nWhovever this Jerry guy is (still no eveidence he's anything more than another hex delusion) he's sure got hex all riled up.\r\n\r\nAnyway, gotta run.\r\n\r\nIt's a long commute from wherever jerry lives to Cole and Willoughby where I'm working today.\r\n\r\n","author":"fresca","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-23 14:52:40","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":101136,"heading":"had things to do - gotta run","article":"very interesting\r\n\r\nmost days nothing can tear you away from trolling here, where timestamps reveal you spend all day and most of the night (retired) spamming no matter what\r\n\r\nwhere it's "fun" for you to put us all in our places by posting "facts" to correct our - um, FACTS..\r\n\r\nand you've promised you'll keep doing so no matter what measures IMC takes to stop you.\r\n\r\nBUT NOW\r\n\r\nsuddenly you're "bored" and have better things to do ?\r\n\r\nGOOD\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"image\/gif","created":"2004-01-23 15:16:33","modified":"2005-08-15 02:48:38","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/whistling.gif","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2004\/01\/whistling.gif"}},{"id":101185,"heading":"fresca","article":"It's called a job. \r\n\r\nTry one out.\r\n\r\nThis week it's been a Sprint commercial. Last week Pepsi.\r\n\r\nOff tommorrow.\r\n\r\nKeep an eye out.","author":"fresca","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-24 06:21:20","modified":"2004-03-09 22:02:00","fileurl":""},{"id":101203,"heading":"I repeat: Hee hee!","article":"Simply masterful, Hex.\r\n\r\nWrong, but masterful.\r\n\r\nSay...how much time to you devote to saving the world from "jerry", anyway?\r\n\r\nAnd you have the nerve to say I'm obsessed?\r\n\r\nWhat a dork.\r\n\r\nLet me spell it out for you, Hex. Not that you'll believe me, but what the heck, huh?\r\n\r\nI'm 40, active duty Air Force, stationed at a base NOT on the border. My ISP is not located in the same county I am. I come here to laugh at you before work, sometimes at lunch ( which I come home for...6 minute drive, 10 minute bike ride), and in the evenings.\r\n\r\nI have used the handles daveman, mr wilson, tpfkamw, and now nonanarchist. I spoofed Meyer London on one thread. I've been visiting la-imc for about a year now. Same with Little Green Footballs, where I post as daveman. Before I got here, I was stationed in Oman for 15 months.\r\n\r\nI drive a 2001 Dodge Grand Caravan with SC plates.\r\n\r\nI don't have my own blog. Not interested, nor do I have the time.\r\n\r\nIf you Google "David Wilson", you won't find me...because that's not my last name. My last name is...psych! Made you look.\r\n\r\nI don't use anonymous proxy servers. Too much trouble, and besides, I like the "disruptive poster" designation. It's like a badge of honor.\r\n\r\nMy email address is daveman_1@hotmail.com. Spam away. Actually, Hotmail's spam filters have greatly improved the last couple of months.\r\n\r\nC'mon, Hex! With all this information, I'm sure a bright boy such as yourself can figure out who I really am.\r\n\r\nAssuming, of course, you can pry yourself off this "jerry" delusion.\r\n\r\nGotta go and get the little girl up and ready for school.\r\n\r\nAnd I don't even like Cheetos.\r\n\r\nnonanarchist\n\n*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.","author":"lkjhlkgkg","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-24 11:20:20","modified":"2004-01-24 11:20:20","fileurl":""},{"id":101208,"heading":"in a rare parting of the clouds of lies","article":"A tiny sliver of sunlight peeks through for a second -\r\n\r\n> Same with Little Green Footballs, where I post\r\n\r\n\r\nFrom the standpoint of IMC this case is closed - you just admitted you're a LGF troll here to disrupt\/distract and nothing positive\r\n\r\nhence the "proud" warning under your handle when you're not using proxies and "jlkjlkjj" to evade it at least.\r\n\r\nSome of the IP's did resolve to *known proxies* in the lists... \r\n\r\nThe only other option is to reset your DSL - I guess that DID get tiring.\r\n\r\nYou do realize how easy it is to add a feature to this newswire to automaticly block any post with such a warning don't you ?\r\n\r\nYou've already admitted you're trying to force us to read your garbage by evading it.\r\n\r\nSo now it comes down to resetting your DSL between every post or using another proxy (your only options) in order to do so.\r\n\r\nEven I could block such posts from here - by having a keyword trigger - say "MD5" and replace the post with blank spaces. But it would be far better for IMC to do this as it would apply to everyone who comes here then.\r\n\r\nBy the time they are able to stamp your posts with the MD5 warning they are able to *just as easyly* block you entirely...\r\n\r\nThen you *have* to go back to using proxies - and I have nearly all the working ones...\r\n","author":"Hex anon w\/ encryption","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-24 13:34:39","modified":"2004-01-24 13:34:39","fileurl":""},{"id":101282,"heading":"Hee hee! ad infinitum","article":"Hex, you really are too much.\r\n\r\n"From the standpoint of IMC this case is closed..."\r\n\r\nReally? You're authorized to speak for the Kollektive?\r\n\r\nDid you ask the Kollektive first, or are you just doing it as a community service? Gotta do the thinking for the proles?\r\n\r\n"...you just admitted you're a LGF troll here to disrupt\/distract and nothing positive"\r\n\r\nNo, I admitted I post at LGF. Disrupt? Distract? No, I'm here to make fun of you. If my laughter distracts or disrupts you, that's your problem. How do you expect to get your way in the world if you can't take a little ribbing? Sheesh. What a whiner.\r\n\r\n"The only other option is to reset your DSL - I guess that DID get tiring."\r\n\r\nDunno; I've never done it. Besides, I don't have DSL. Ask Bush Admirer how much trouble it is to fiddle around with the blocks; he fell victim to the Kollektive's pogrom.\r\n\r\n"You've already admitted you're trying to force us to read your garbage by evading it."\r\n\r\nNo, I'm merely insisting in the same freedom of expression that you enjoy. Not my problem if you're unequipped to handle disagreement.\r\n\r\n"Even I could block such posts from here - by having a keyword trigger - say "MD5" and replace the post with blank spaces. But it would be far better for IMC to do this as it would apply to everyone who comes here then."\r\n\r\nWhat, exactly, are you so afraid of? I'm playing softball with you guys. I'm here to have fun. There are people out there who would eat your lunch and slap your momma. If you can't even stand little ol' me having a few chuckles, you will NEVER EVER get your political way in this or any other country.\r\n\r\nYou do what you think you have to do, Hex. \r\n\r\nBut if you ban everyone who disagrees with you, this will be one boring site. "Bush sucks!" "No, Israel sucks more!" "Shut up! Michael Moore said Bush sucks, and that's good enough for me!"\r\n\r\nFace it...we're doing you a favor.\r\n\r\nnonanarchist\n\n*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dcbfebfbdce. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.","author":"lkj;lhkjh","parent_id":101078,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2004-01-25 02:00:33","modified":"2004-01-25 02:00:33","fileurl":""}]}