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by builder123 Sunday, Aug. 25, 2002 at 12:40 PM

date 8-24-02 Bush's swing through the state on a fund raising campaign for Bill Simon Jr. arrived in town this morning. He was more than "warmly" greeted by many hundred (my estimate) Californians. They came out at 7a.m. to thank him for a whole list of unforgivable deeds. Not least, of which was allowing his energy cronies to raid our state treasury by in part feigning a power crisis and then pinning it on those "environrnentalist" in California for not building enough power plants. You are welcome to add an unforgivable deed in comments.

bush_arrives.jpg, image/jpeg, 406x541

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Bush is Hitler's Historical Heir

by Peacenik Sunday, Aug. 25, 2002 at 1:30 PM

George War Bush is a Nazi; his grandfather was a Nazi collaborator and his friends are Nazis. He, like the rest of the ruling class of the US are the historical heirs of Nazi Germany. The Reichstag Fire they perpetrated on September 11, 2001 was done for the same reasons as the one perpetrated by the Nazis on February 27, 1933, less than one month after Hitler was named Chancellor, that date being January 31, 1933. Those reasons are to perpetrate blood for oil wars abroad and fascism at home so as to maximize the profits of the capitalist class. The fascism at home includes both anti-Arab and anti-Jewish racism, as well as all other forms of racism, homophobia and male chauvinism. Just as the Nazi schools were known as the worst schools in German history as they became increasingly devoid of content so as to prepare young people to be soldiers if boys and breeders if girls; so too are the American schools the worst in American history, as the US schools become filled with superstition instead of science and money-making rackets called standardized tests instead of intellectually stimulating and comprehensive education for all. Just as Nazi Germany was first and foremost anti-labor and anti-Communist, so too is George War Bush and his fascist capitalist class. If I were at the demonstration, I would have chanted:
Hitler rose and Hitler fell!
George War Bush,
Go to hell!
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Quality Protest

by Marc Snelling Sunday, Aug. 25, 2002 at 6:15 PM

At 4:45 AM this morning... came up with 7 others from San Diego to make this protest. Was really encouraged... lots of good people.

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energy crisis

by sean (imc sydney) Monday, Aug. 26, 2002 at 8:18 AM

"Not least, of which was allowing his energy cronies to raid our state treasury by in part feigning a power crisis "

let me just say that i went to LA for chrimbo and a new years party 3 years ago and was really shocked at how many people have their houses set aglow with hundreds of lightbulbs... it was amazingly cheesy, ridiculously ugly and completely wasteful of energy.....

someone in LA should letterbox people in early november reminding the community where the fuel for this ugly display comes from.....

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You're Right About That

by builder123 Monday, Aug. 26, 2002 at 12:29 PM


Cruising around the world on Indimedia is super informative, it's great to know the world can see a bit of the la action by way of all the people that post.

A few points concerning your comment:

-California has in force some of the stictest laws concerning conservation and the enviroment in the world. (A lota, lota more needs to be done however)

-It is highly doubtful that "Kennie Boy" and the rest of the energy mob had energy conservation on their minds when the stole billions from the tax payers. Billions by the way, that are sorely missed by the poor and middle class who seek social services.

-I live here and heavens know your right about the waste of resources. What can all those people riding around in SUV's etc, etc, etc, be thinking? This is a fact that the entire US is saddled with and to a lesser extent all the developed countries (including yours).

Well anyway I typed this all out because my take on the tone of your message was that we kinda got what we deserved and that didn't sit too well.

Have a good one,

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Government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavours to live at the expense

by of everybody else--Frederic Bastiat 1872 Monday, Aug. 26, 2002 at 1:22 PM

Jim and others I love to explore indymedia, adbusters, whatreallyhappened.com, and sooooooooo many other awesome websites without which we'd be less hopeless and less informed. I appreciate gathering free information.

But when we speak of information we do so at times considering information to be fact. Fact, fiction, biased, unbiased, informed, uninformed---it's all information. Our model of the way the world works is based upon all of this information. A lot if it is dismissed biasedly, much of it is embraced unbiasedly--lol----we need discrimination and we need to keep on spreading information and views we've been exposed to so that this "revolution" of ours will have substance based on historical fact.

The fact is this regarding social programs and welfare: they cannot lie in the same bed as liberty. It's just that simple. It has nothing to do with my politics and everything to do with ethics. I see all over these web sites such good intentioned people with determined brains and attitudes. But a lot of people in America do not understand much of economics because we have not been taught it.

Social Security is the best example of the hollow deck of cards which "social programs" embodies. In 1940 159.1 Americans supported one recipient of Social Security (who incidentally collected the maximum amount of money they put into social security within their lifetime--in less than 2 years).

Today 3 Americans are supporting one recipient of social security. In other words, me (I'm 24) and the guy I married last fall (he is also 24) and some other shmuck are supporting somebody we don't even know.

But this person we don't even know, knew that he'd be getting SS. So he saved less throughout his lifetime, less of his money went into stocks, less jobs were created for us, so essentially not only is he eating what we're producing now, he ate our seed corn as well.

There are well over 100 federal programs out there to "help the poor". If all of this money were directly handed to the "poor" (which includes you and me), each family of four would be receiving more than $70,000 a year. (this is federal money only--not state and local money.) They could live off this, invest some and within a year be independent.

But the poor don't get the money. Who does? According to the Economist:
Americans suppose that social-welfare programs are about helping the poor. This is not true. More than 85% of all benefits go to the middle and upper classes, both old and young. Household with incomes above $100,000 get slightly more federal money each year than those earning a tenth of that."

And obviously, what is federal money? It is our money. It's simple economics: you cannot take money from John by force to subsidize Paul and not see the consequences of that action somewhere, somehow. Not to mention that it is stealing. Human beings are simply not meant to work this way. This is why private charities exist.

It is my firm belief that were our government to adhere to the laws which it expects us to adhere to, (not stealing, etc.) that Americans would be more charitable, businesses more profitable, and the technological boom would continue making the quality of life actually go up instead of down as it has since the 70's. Right now economically we are compared to 1959.

Until we grasp what a welfare state actually means (and I don't mean to sound condescending because I don't fully grasp it myself), we will never be able to unite against a warfare state-------which ironically is composed of the same things.

recommended reading: chaostan.com, Gary North (on the web)
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Frederik kBastiat

by poop ooo Monday, Aug. 26, 2002 at 1:24 PM

Sorry----typo I meant at the beginning of my above comment to say hopeful, not hopeless ;)
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Frederik kBastiat

by poop ooo Monday, Aug. 26, 2002 at 1:29 PM

Sorry----typo I meant at the beginning of my above comment to say hopeful, not hopeless ;)
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In Response to Diana

by builder123 Monday, Aug. 26, 2002 at 5:23 PM

In Response to Diana, I think.

It is interesting to see the journey my picture and original comment have gone on. What I thought was going to be a server jamming litany of “wrongful deeds” by George “W” has gone from a “great rally” comment, which it truly was, to a testimonial on energy squandering Angelenos and now to yours. Thank-you very much for the time and the words but in my own rather basic understanding, what you’ve written goes against the very core of our great system

My original reply to Sean had nothing to do with social theory and everything to do with the mundane. You know, like a balance sheet or your checkbook for example. Say somebody came along a pinched a bit of your “Operating Capital” wouldn’t that cause you to alter your budget? Well it sure has created a stir in Sacramento, in fact it’s made such a stir the state legislature can’t agree on how to alter the budget. Sides have been drawn up along the usual party lines with funding in some instances on hold, being revised downward or eliminated. Who does it hurt, not Kenny Boy. It hurts children and parents. Basically, the working poor and marginalized in our society are the first to fall. The keen difference this time is the ever-shrinking middle class that was seduced into the stock market in greater numbers than ever before took a colossal hit. This stuff isn’t out of some great read; it’s right here in the flesh. You can touch it and if you can touch you can help it.

Private sector charities like the “United Way”, “Red Cross” and “Salvation Army” play an important role in providing for the welfare of the people, but don’t expect them to go it alone. They cannot and shouldn’t be expected to, our constitution mandates in letter and principal the welfare of the people. Visionary and socially oriented leaders such as Franklin D. Roosevelt for one, have created milestones in human governance by enacting legislation that protected and empowered the common citizen. The benefits of which are vividly present in today’s society.

To roll up all this based on the notion that, “social programs and welfare cannot lie in the same bed as liberty”, only make me wonder what kind of liberty you seek. Liberty’s bed partner is justice. Justice goes back to the mandate of security for all the people.

The analogy of the slacker that knew he was getting Social Security would be comical if it wasn’t so naïve and degrading to the human spirit.

What you have proposed is simple and basic greed. Frankly, you have swallowed hook line and sinker the mantra of the conservative “Me Generation”.


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degrading the human spirit

by D Monday, Aug. 26, 2002 at 9:33 PM

I am sooooooooo glad we have fellow human beings demonstrating against the Bush Administration wherever and whenever they can------I feel that understanding the Bush Administration and the government they serve is as important as demonstration. That is why I go on and on below:

I try to exercise as much behavior management as possible when dealing with others as a habit of since I've worked with individuals who have autism for several years now. This being said, I don't wish to simply write rheotoric to others as though I need to defend myself or because I'm angry. I write this because I feel it's informative and important for anyone who has read your reply to hear what I have to say regarding a few of your comments. Jim----and anyone

I didn't mean to degrade anyone-------least of all what you called my comical analogy of the "slacker" who didn't save enough because he expected ss. Elderly people deserve respect. But not because they are poor and sunken and miserable. The elderly in this country are the richest in the country. Senior citizen discounts at restaurants and movies are there to target the richest population in spending a buck. Think about it----this is why Medicare and ss are given such political speeches as well. It's not because politicians "care". It's because they know who they're speaking to. And the seniors in this country are the ones who turn out in overwhelming numbers to the polls.

If I had only learned Keynesian economics , that the economy is a machines (vs. Australian economics the economy is our ecology) which is what most Americans are taught, I would probably rely on ss as well. Which would be make me an utter git since even my 54 year old father probably won't see much ss

All I'm saying is that creating welfare and social programs isn't creating money------it's not like you plant a welfare money tree in a field. The money is simply diverted from one channel into other channels. And instead of this money (which is our money as taxpayers) being invested into private businesses, land, what-have-you, it is being channeled into areas that no one can forsee because politics is so changeable. Therefore no new jobs, no better quality of life is created. It's transferred from a to b. We can advocate for where we'd like the transfer to take place of course, but in the end, the transfer itself creates a chain that is long and bumpy for nearly everyone-----and usually completely unforseen. Because like I originally quoted, "government is the great fiction, through which everybody endeavors to live at the expense of everybody else."

And human beings are all part of an ecology and no man is an island. My money is your money in the sense that what I do with my money will always effect your money somehow somewhere.

The transfer may temporarily help out person a----but eventually the drawbacks to person b will most likely be felt by person a. It's as simple as that.
As temperate and invisible as the human heart -------that's where the lobbyists come in------that's where new "laws" come in. We have hundreds of thousands of new laws each year federally and locally.

These new laws make it tough to make a buck. A lot of federal or state money dumped somewhere dupes businesses into expanding--and then the hand which feeds them simply can decide to disappear. Or the business which compete with them disappear. Or the taxes taken from point a to point b take just enough from the young, that the young don't support it anymore and then a lot of people are out of a job.

Of course I'm concerned with this. I'm in the prime of my life. I'm young---24---and of course I want everyone to love each other and hold hands and be on equal footing dancing around the world in a peaceful paradise that is laissez-faire yet unencroaching and unresentful, not greedy, and not envious. But it's simple economics that the way we're trying to equalize the money supply simply won't work through social programs and welfare. EVER. Because it's a law of nature-----and stealing has natural consequences. I dunno why, it just does. I say that unpretentiously

And that's not greed, it's survival. Is it greedy to want to have a house? A garden? Not live from paycheck to paycheck? Because I do. Do you know what I mean? Do you live check to check too? Do I want people to receive money to buy groceries with and go to the doctor with? Don't we all? Who doesn't? But is it done in a way that makes sense----as history has shown? Study the Roman Republic and the Roman Empire. This is what America is today. Our monetary system only exists because our debt does. Our debt exists because we have turned into a state which takes a dollar from person a, pockets 20 cents and returns 80 cents to person b. It's as simple as that. Really

I haven't swallowed anything any conservatist would like me to eat. I swallow what I read and re-read and practice and re-read and practice again and think about and think about and even then I can't fit into a nice little box because I probably won't digest anything until I'm nearly dead

and p.s. FDR was responsible for the Internment of the Japanese, Pearl Harbor, the deception of the entire American public for many years, the "New Deal" which almost every economist in America will acknowledge did not end the Great Depression but only expanded the beauracracy of the USG, and gave us the lowered quality in life as we experience today due to our inflated currency and socialistic democracy.

Please please please don't take my word for it
Resources you may find interesting: AE's "Sacrifice at Pearl Harbor", WWI and WWII by Richard Maybury (available through Bluestocking Press), U.S. Financial Data (published by the Federal Reserve Bank of St. Louis, Box 442, St. Louis, MO 63166, A time for Truth by William E. Simon, The Myth of the Baron Robbers by Burton W. Folsom Jr., The Statistical Abstract of the US (write to Superintendent of Documents, Mail Stop: SSOP, Washington, D.C. 20402, Whatever Happened to Justice by Richard Maybury,
and check out Gary North's website as well as chaostan.com
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by jonathon Tuesday, Aug. 27, 2002 at 7:33 AM

You don't know jack about class war; your analysis of those "facts" proves that to all with brain function and a bus pass.

just hand me the 70,000 grand

70,000 divided by a family of 4 = 17,500 each

that's more than I made last year.

And you're right (sarcasim) I should have been able to save a nice nest egg on that 17k/yr I'm so sorry that some of your 6 figure income will go to ensuring that I live out a misearable disease riddled golden years in the convenient state facility of my choice.

as for investing in stocks... NEVER with MY money

Investing in the stock market is investing in the wrong system.

SELL all your stocks, file bankruptcy and watch the whole motha fall apart.

THEN, we can start over.

With NO candidates from the oil, weapons or pharmacuetical industries; it's a conflict of interest.

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Great Engagement

by apache Tuesday, Aug. 27, 2002 at 7:58 AM

I'm just glad that the thief in command's visit to L.A. has provoked so much discourse
and debate on the IMC. And regardless of the difference of opinion, within which
everybody here has a good use of facts and information, I still see that we're all on
the same page as to what the overarching problem is--Dubya and America's current
corporate state (soon to be a police state). Kudos to the intelligent people in L.A.
who use this site even if they disagree with each other, yet within the context of
wanting to do something progressive (a fresh breather from the cops and other mo-mo's
who occasionally post their reactionary opinions).

Oh, and for Builder123:

F*$K bush! because:
-- he litterally stole the 2000 election with the partisan supreme court (and f#$k Scalia, Jeb,
and Harris--watch out for her bullshit new book in which she tries to vindicate herself).
-- his family did business with the bin Laden's and then tried to turn around and say that
their black sheep son is the enemy (and Osama may be dead already, so what are we fighting for?)
-- he was a shameless cokehead fratboy who never had to do time for his excesses, while
others have been given prison sentences for possession (whites, blacks and latinos)
-- he is a corporate criminal, and although him and Dickhead Cheney think they're going to get
away with it, their association with Simon is going to cost them---the fact that they think
they can get away with this is an insult to all Americas.
and finally...
-- he's just too plain stupid to be a politician or businessman of any nature


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dear bullshit

by d Tuesday, Aug. 27, 2002 at 8:01 PM

dear bullshit,
to hell with behavior management and just le tme ask you what the fuck your problem is and enlighten me a bit here then if you must be so pretentious to tell me that I don't know jack about class wars but won't care to tell me who YOU are, what YOU know
Get some balls
Enlighten me
Because why else are you wasting your time
Do you just pander in and out like a ghost on chats to make yourself feel like you breathe, like you are a person? You're a dickhead.
Get some integrity, or what the hell do you care what Bush does you asshole? Are you gonna be our next little Bush? Because there are Bush's on every street-------in all different degrees. You don't think it matters?

Get some balls. Research the resources I gave. While you do, give me some read. A brain and a bus pass? Do these sentiments make you any friends?

Reread what I've written. You were pretty much agreeing with me actually. And what the fuck? 100,000? I make 8 dollars an hour. I'm fucking 24 and I make 8 dollars an hour. Babysitting. Go fuck yourself. Life is more than being a dick head. Learn how to communicate, articulate, educate.

I make music, write, hang out, read, paint------this is life. If you can't communicate on forums because of your extreme dyslexia then perhaps you'd be better off not reading them at all since your poisonous ignorance is so infectuous and demeaning to others
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Don't let him bother you

by Wes Wednesday, Sep. 04, 2002 at 3:30 PM

I hope I spelled your name right. I just wanted to say I appreciated your postings. I think anyone who is interested in discovering truth can recognize that you are also interested in the same. People seem to often become angry and proceed to insults if they are only interested in justifying their little world. I think we saw this on this posting. Anyone who wishes to understand truth is not intimidated and does not become angry when conflicting view points arise. They only wish to find all truth everywhere.
I am glad also to see a 24 year old female interested in such things. I will check out some of your links. Here is one for you. Our Enemy the State
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by PEDRO Tuesday, Oct. 08, 2002 at 7:02 PM

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by Katie Panter Saturday, May. 05, 2007 at 6:07 AM
Black-breaded-Bob@hotmail.com 5124598585 781Laneylane

Bush And Bullshit start with e same letters
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Love you

by Logan Terell Wednesday, May. 09, 2007 at 5:53 AM
lovely_Lady@max.com 7855214585 945 Bacon lane

Though I'm a good person, and I prefer not to hate. You just have to hate that dip shit Bush. there's nothing we can do about it, but not have him as prez again.


P.s. Bush, go blow a goat.
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by Lord Locksley Wednesday, May. 09, 2007 at 7:17 AM

".....there's nothing we can do about it, but not have him as prez again."

and exactly HOW does this mean that YOU are doing something about it since his 2nd term is due to expire in January 2009 anyway?

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