We had a server outage, and we're rebuilding the site. Most of the site features won't work. Thank you for your patience.
imc indymedia

Los Angeles Indymedia : Activist News

white themeblack themered themetheme help
About Us Contact Us Calendar Publish RSS
latest news
best of news




A-Infos Radio

Indymedia On Air

Dope-X-Resistance-LA List


IMC Network:

Original Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: ambazonia canarias estrecho / madiaq kenya nigeria south africa canada: hamilton london, ontario maritimes montreal ontario ottawa quebec thunder bay vancouver victoria windsor winnipeg east asia: burma jakarta japan korea manila qc europe: abruzzo alacant andorra antwerpen armenia athens austria barcelona belarus belgium belgrade bristol brussels bulgaria calabria croatia cyprus emilia-romagna estrecho / madiaq euskal herria galiza germany grenoble hungary ireland istanbul italy la plana liege liguria lille linksunten lombardia london madrid malta marseille nantes napoli netherlands nice northern england norway oost-vlaanderen paris/Île-de-france patras piemonte poland portugal roma romania russia saint-petersburg scotland sverige switzerland thessaloniki torun toscana toulouse ukraine united kingdom valencia latin america: argentina bolivia chiapas chile chile sur cmi brasil colombia ecuador mexico peru puerto rico qollasuyu rosario santiago tijuana uruguay valparaiso venezuela venezuela oceania: adelaide aotearoa brisbane burma darwin jakarta manila melbourne perth qc sydney south asia: india mumbai united states: arizona arkansas asheville atlanta austin baltimore big muddy binghamton boston buffalo charlottesville chicago cleveland colorado columbus dc hawaii houston hudson mohawk kansas city la madison maine miami michigan milwaukee minneapolis/st. paul new hampshire new jersey new mexico new orleans north carolina north texas nyc oklahoma philadelphia pittsburgh portland richmond rochester rogue valley saint louis san diego san francisco san francisco bay area santa barbara santa cruz, ca sarasota seattle tampa bay tennessee urbana-champaign vermont western mass worcester west asia: armenia beirut israel palestine process: fbi/legal updates mailing lists process & imc docs tech volunteer projects: print radio satellite tv video regions: oceania united states topics: biotech

Surviving Cities

www.indymedia.org africa: canada: quebec east asia: japan europe: athens barcelona belgium bristol brussels cyprus germany grenoble ireland istanbul lille linksunten nantes netherlands norway portugal united kingdom latin america: argentina cmi brasil rosario oceania: aotearoa united states: austin big muddy binghamton boston chicago columbus la michigan nyc portland rochester saint louis san diego san francisco bay area santa cruz, ca tennessee urbana-champaign worcester west asia: palestine process: fbi/legal updates process & imc docs projects: radio satellite tv
printable version - js reader version - view hidden posts - tags and related articles

Talking About Revolution

by rosa Saturday, Oct. 26, 2002 at 10:30 AM

Here are excerpts from the debate on http://2changetheworld.info/ -- the online discussion site focused on the Draft Programme of the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA and the strategy for revolution in the U.S.

Here are excerpts from the debate on http://2changetheworld.info -- the online discussion site focused on the Draft Programme of the Revolutionary Communist Party, USA and the strategy for revolution in the U.S.


Questions about Students in the Revolution
Posted by: Jared

How should students and young people in general be radicalized and brought into the struggle? As the Draft Programme said they are less weighed down by force of habit. I am a high school student and have found that many in my school are receptive the ideas of Communism when I speak to them about it.
How can it be ensured that young people do not sell out like some of them have done in the past. Is this only a tendency among young people from the middle class and not from the proletariat? Also… Will America have a movement similar to the Cultural Revolution to combat Revisionism?


On Religion Now and Later

Posted by: teacher

The sections on religion under socialism seem one-sided. Doesn't there need to be a clearer and more positive distinction made between the enemies of the revolution, and real or potential friends? …The DP expresses the need to relentlessly and ruthlessly combat reactionary religious forces who use religion to undermine the socialist state and attempt to overthrow it. The DP expresses the fact that religion enslaves people and weighs them down. That it is an obstacle to be overcome if the proletariat is to achieve its historic mission. But there must be a way in which the Programme can go after belief in god without appearing to trash or belittle people for believing. This is done to some extent, for instance in the way in which the DP says that the masses themselves will be relied upon to caste off religious belief. But I think it has to be stronger. It has to be able to outline the way in which the Party will lead the attack against religion without bringing the masses themselves under attack or making them feel that they are under attack. … To try to sum all this up, I want to express a comment from [a] student. When we were discussing whether or not there exists such a thing as a human soul, or a spirit reality, she said, "But wouldn't it be bad for society not to believe in spirit?"


Religion Now and Later
Posted by: Dolly Veale, RCP, SF Bay Area

A number of people have raised something similar to the student who asked "wouldn't it be bad for society not to believe in spirit?" Often people confound the real and powerful human spirit with the surreal or supernatural "spirit". Though a lot of this history is hidden from young people today, millions worldwide in the 1960s were inspired by the revolutionary truth (paraphrasing Mao) that "the spirit of the people is greater than the man's technology" (a concrete example then was the Vietnamese people's struggle kicking the ass of the "almighty" U.S.) There's also the communist spirit of "serve the people" -- a spirit promoted and practiced by one quarter of humanity in Maoist China, especially during the Cultural Revolution. It's part of the high standard for the vanguard Party that imbues its life, culture and morality… We can agree that we don't want a dull (spiritless) world where love and solidarity get reduced to chemicals and our biology. The first victim of that kind of world would be the revolutionary spirit of MLM.


Proposal for a short form
Posted by: Max

It would be even better, however, if there were something like a one-newspaper page length brief summary of Part I itself, something that could be carried, on an ongoing basis, by the Revolutionary Worker, printed up as wall posters, passed out as leaflets, etc. The Black Panther Party, in earlier times, made good use of this format in their 10-point program titled "What We Want. What We Believe," and the format helped them in popularizing their program to the masses. The RCP's draft programme, in revolutionary content, goes far beyond what the BPP represented, but the popularized and brief format that they utilized has something powerful which can be learned from.


Why we should use democracy to our own benefit
Posted by: democraticleftist

Why don't we use democracy to our own benefit-to vote out unwanted rightwing extremists, corrupt politicians, etc? Democracy is what we thrive on--without it we wouldn't have any free dissent. For that reason, I want a socialistic democracy, where corruption, exploitation, homophobia, racism, sexism, do NOT exist and NOT tolerated in it, AND any power by any one person NOT tolerated. Dictatorship by the people may not serve the people well -- because history has shown that the people do not have a direct control (i.e voting) over their leaders… We could vote on all prospective laws like the Californians do. To make this possible, voting MUST be made mandatory so ALL we the people can have REAL power over the government. We don't need legislatures to decide for us. Any suggestions?


The opinion of one working-class activist
Posted by: FW

I believe that the fundamental core of the Draft New Program is where it says that farm workers must ally with farm owners who don't hire many laborers, and where it says that the state will use its power to help landlords collect rents.…The willingness to support small employers is a preference for the dead, non-fighting labor of constant capital (machines, fuel, spare parts) over and above variable capital (wages). Factory and warehouse workers, truck drivers, and oil workers don't know where these commodities go when they get finished with them. … In other words, capitalism is fine when the struggle of the working-class can be suppressed under the fiction that nationalized big business is working-class rule. I feel that this Program supports a "revolving door" revolution that replaces big capitalists with smaller ones as the ruling exploiters. Capitalism is never attacked, just superficially changed.


Sexuality and Struggle
Posted by: R.L.

Is something that is sexual "private" and "personal," or is it something that is intensely social? Can it be reactionary or progressive... and how? What would reactionary or progressive sexuality be? If there is reactionary sexuality, how is it dealt with in the revolutionary process? It is easy to identify the extremes: rape, prostitution and so on, yet women can also be made to feel that they must have sex in a relationship, that they must "service their man"… Any thoughts?


Women's Liberation and Homosexuality
Posted by: a supporter

It should be made clear [in the Draft Programme] that uprooting women's oppression is a central task through every phase of the revolutionary transformation of society. …. Women's unpaid and usually unrecognized labor as a subsidy for capital should be noted, as another way in which women's oppression is tied to capitalism. However, capitalism should not be identified as THE cause of women's oppression. Patriarchy should be acknowledged as having a life of its own, that it is not reducible to capitalism (or class society), however much it is inextricably intertwined with it.

[The Homosexuality section] should be more inclusive, and bring in bisexuality and transgender folks. It shouldn't work from the assumption that there is heterosexuality and there is homosexuality, but recognize the spectrum of sexual identities, not just a dichotomy. It treats homosexuals simply as oppressed objects, not as subjects in their own liberation.


On Spontaneity and the issue of "top down"
Posted by: rise

I think the most distant accusation from anarchism is that of the existence of "counter-institutions", so lets start with that. What is the critique here? Basically, the person is saying that anarchism merely sets up counter-institutions under the current socio-economic context, and refuses to challenge the context itself.

This is ironic, because this is exactly what anarchists criticize Marxists about. To anarchists, the state is another "counter-institution", whose very specific purpose is to oppress the majority of people, to keep the masses in servile submission to police, armed forces, state-media outlets and educational facilities, and so on and so forth. So of course as anarchists, we attack the Marxist state as a counter-institution which, because by its very nature refuses to overthrow the underlying social/economic system, is inherently counter-revolutionary. It not only refuses to challenge the complex social relations of capitalism in a way that will alter them, but is a base for capitalist restoration…

One need only look at the fate of *every single Marxist state ever to exist in history* to see that we are correct about this. That cannot be stressed enough…. Under the federational model, the leadership come from, are constantly renewed and replaced by, and representative of the *revolutionary* masses. The very nature of leadership is one of representation of basic community needs mixed with a necessity to tie that in with anarchist revolutionary goals.


Doesn't Council Communism Recreate Rule By Market
Posted by: Nando

I think if production is controlled at the factory level, you can't have society wide socialist planning -- and in fact you have individual factories interacting with each other through the market, reproducing capitalism….Won't the decisions be made based on what serves the interests in that one factory? How will surplus flow from less necessary (but profitable) areas of the economy to more necessary (but less profitable)? Won't the factories that produce the most surplus expand and prosper, while those that produce less shrink and lay off? And how is that different from the "law of surplus value" that is at the very heart of allocation under capitalism?


Posted by: growgreen

What is the RCP's view on the use of weed after the revolution as well as other herbal medicines? Will hemp production be used to replace the overuse and abusive cutting of forest and use of other natural recourses? … Recreational smoking is also harmless and non-addictive, much better than alcohol on the body and does not tend to lead to violent outburst.


Change the World!


Report this post as:

Local News

Woolsey Fire: Worst News of 2018? J01 12:18AM

Oppose Environmentally-Harmful Development D10 4:03AM

Oppose Environmentally-Harmful Development D10 3:58AM

OUR HOUSE Grief Support Center Presents Night for Hope O30 5:38PM

Marshall Tuck’s racist dog whistle O27 5:01AM

Marshall Tuck’s ethnocentrism contradicts Californian values O27 4:32AM

Contra Costa-Hawkins O25 3:48AM

Debunking Some Anti-Prop 10 Propaganda O12 6:56AM

Why Should California Choose De Leon Over Feinstein? O10 9:55PM

Change Links September 2018 posted S02 10:22PM

More Scandals Rock Southern California Nuke Plant San Onofre A30 11:09PM

Site Outage Friday A30 3:49PM

Change Links August 2018 A14 1:56AM

Setback for Developer of SC Farm Land A12 11:09PM

More problems at Shutdown San Onofre Nuke J29 10:40PM

Change Links 2018 July posted J09 8:27PM

More Pix: "Families Belong Together," Pasadena J02 7:16PM

"Families Belong Together" March, Pasadena J02 7:08PM

Short Report on the Families Belong Together Protest in Los Angeles J30 11:26PM

Summer 2018 National Immigrant Solidarity Network News Alert! J11 6:58AM

Watch the Debate: Excluded Candidates for Governor of California M31 5:20AM

Change Links June 2018 posted M28 7:41AM

More Local News...

Other/Breaking News

PR Debt Cancel, Judge Reviews Cofina Debt J16 9:04PM

Réseautage, fragmentation du capital J16 4:20PM

Paraphysique de manipulation mentale et sociale J15 9:51AM

The Global Justice Project and Human Survival: We're Badly Off Track J15 5:08AM

The Global Justice Project and Human Survival: We're Badly Off Track J15 5:08AM

The Global Justice Project and Human Survival: We're Badly Off Track J15 5:08AM

Markets as a Fetish, Globalization, and Dissent Management J14 1:03PM

State Debts - The Primal German Fear J13 5:09PM

Sans liberté, sans égalité, sans fraternité J13 8:09AM

From Progressive Neoliberalism to Trump - and Beyond J12 9:22PM

Copper Cures Cancer J11 1:42PM

Steven Taylor, Investor who Evicts J11 9:24AM

Du sectarisme, des sectes, des clans J11 8:10AM

“Animaniacs in Concert!” Starring Voice Legend Rob Paulsen J10 6:34PM

Patrick Kilpatrick discusses and signs Dying for Living J09 11:51PM

SexActs vs Sexuality USA 2018 Invitations to Power Marriages without Affection J09 8:36PM

Changer de mentalité, changer de société J09 9:17AM

Teacher Strike? Time for Labor Studies J09 6:26AM

December 2018 Honduras Coup Update J08 10:12PM

Paraphysique de la désespérance J07 9:38AM

The Unification Church with Rev Moon is in La and Orange Counnties J07 9:07AM

Time to Start Imagineering a Post-Ayatollah Iran J05 10:00PM

L'écomorphisme, du culturel et du temporel J05 10:33AM

Sexual Harassment Charges of Men Suing Women who are accused of Harassing Men are now 10% J05 4:08AM

Stases psychiques et stases sexuelles J04 11:34AM

Paraphysique de la sous-vie J02 9:01AM

Paraphysique de la biomasse mondialisée J01 9:45AM

La mathématisation du monde D31 7:42AM

More Breaking News...
© 2000-2018 Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Unless otherwise stated by the author, all content is free for non-commercial reuse, reprint, and rebroadcast, on the net and elsewhere. Opinions are those of the contributors and are not necessarily endorsed by the Los Angeles Independent Media Center. Running sf-active v0.9.4 Disclaimer | Privacy