Der Spiegel's combative interview with President Bashar al-Assad has
received significant worldwide media attention. We published the
original text of the interview as translated into English by SANA,
the Syrian Arab News Agency. Since then we have received Spiegel's
English translation and found some gross differences between the texts.
We have set them in two columns, matching question for question, answer
for answer to make it easy for readers to conduct your own comparative
analysis.
Of course two different translators will always convert text to another
language in different ways, using differing idiomatic expressions and
grammar. Those differences are not of any concern in the following
document. Rather, the gross omissions, additions or changes in text is
the primary subject of this investigation and the secondary inquiry is
in the subtle use of words by the two parties. Clues to the veracity of
each translation lie in the language attributed to each of the two
parties.
We encourage you the reader to form your impressions or arrive at your
own conclusions about who manipulated the text of this important
interview with President Assad. We have also color-coded the
differences that appear to be significant for easy identification of
those most telling parts of this interview that have been omitted,
inserted or changed. The Der Spiegel translation appears in the left
side with ommissions, additions and textual changes highligted in red.
The SANA translation is in the right column with textual differences
provided in blue. Images of President Assad used by Der Spiegel
| Translation
by Der Spiegel |
Translation by Syrian Arab
News Agency (SANA)
|
| SPIEGEL:
Mr. President, do you love your country? |
SPIEGEL:
Mr. President, do you love your country?
|
| Assad:
That is a simple, evident question. Of course. It's human to love where
you come from. But it is not just a question of the emotional
relationship. It is also about what you, as a person, can do for your
home, especially when you are in a position of authority. That becomes
especially clear in times of crisis. Right now, at a time when I have
to protect my country, I am feeling just how much I love it. |
President Assad:
Of course, and in this I am no different from most people. This is not
merely about emotions, but rather about what one can do for his country
if he has the power and especially in times of crisis; and at this
particular time, I realize more than ever how much I love my country
and so I must protect it. |
| SPIEGEL:
If you were a true patriot, you would step down and pave the way for
negotiations for an interim government or a cease-fire with the armed
opposition. |
SPIEGEL:
Wouldn’t you be more patriotic if you stepped down and
allowed for negotiations over an interim government or for a cease-fire
with the armed opposition? |
| Assad:
The Syrian people will determine my fate. That is not a question any
other party can decide. Who are these factions? Who do they represent?
The Syrian people? At least part of the Syrian people? If
they do, then let's go to the ballot box. |
President Assad:
The Syrian people
determine my fate; no other party can determine this issue. As for the
armed opposition or factions, who do they represent - the Syrian
people? If
so, this can be proven only through the ballot box. |
| SPIEGEL:
Are you prepared to stand in an election? |
SPIEGEL:
Are you prepared to run in the next elections?
|
| Assad:
My second term in office will end next August. Two months earlier we
will hold a presidential election. I cannot decide now whether I am
going to run. It's still early, because you have to probe the mood and
will of the people. If I no longer know that I have the will of the
people behind me, then I will not run. |
President Assad:
My term ends in August next year. The presidential elections should
take place before that time. I cannot decide now whether I am going to
run; this depends on what the Syrian people want. If people are not
behind me, I won’t stand in the elections. |
| SPIEGEL:
So you're really considering giving up power? |
SPIEGEL:
Will you seriously consider giving up power? |
| Assad:
Whether I'm open-minded or not, this is about the decision of the
people, because this is their country. It's not only my country. |
President Assad:
This is not about me or what I want. It’s about what people
want. The country is not mine alone, it’s the country for all
Syrians. |
| SPIEGEL:
But you are the reason for the rebellion. The
people want to get rid of corruption and despotism.
They are calling for a real democracy and the opposition believes this
will only be possible if you step down. |
SPIEGEL:
But
some people say that you are the cause of the rebellion, because people
want to get rid of corruption and tyranny.
They call for a true democracy; and according to the opposition, this
is not possible with you in power. |
| Assad:
Again, when you talk about
factions, whether they are opposition or supporters, you have to ask
yourself the question: Whom do they represent? Themselves or the
country that made them? Are
they speaking for the United States, the United Kingdom, France, Saudi
Arabia and Qatar? My answer here has to be frank and straight to the
point. This conflict has been brought to our country from abroad. These
people are located abroad, they live in five-star hotels and they say
and do what those countries tell them to do. But they have no
grassroots in Syria. |
President Assad:
Do these people speak for themselves, or do they speak on behalf of the
Syrian people or on behalf of the countries that are backing them? Do
they speak on behalf of the United States, the United Kingdom, France,
Saudi Arabia or Qatar? Let me be clear about this: this conflict is
being brought to our country from the outside world. These people live
in five-star hotels, they are dictated to by their financial backers
and have no grass roots in Syria. |
| SPIEGEL:
Do you dispute that there's a strong opposition against you in your
country? |
SPIEGEL:
Do you deny that there is a strong opposition against you in your
country? |
| Assad:
That's
normal. If I don't have opposition, it means all the people support me,
and that's impossible. |
President Assad:
There
is certainly an opposition in our country. What country
doesn’t have opposition? It’s impossible for all
the Syrians to be on my side. |
| SPIEGEL:
But we aren't the only ones who are disputing your legitimacy.
"A leader who slaughtered his citizens and gassed children to death
cannot regain the legitimacy to lead a badly fractured country,"
US President Obama said at the United Nations General Assembly at the
end of September. |
SPIEGEL:
It’s not only us who deny the legitimacy of your presidency.
U.S. President Barack Obama said at the U.N. General Assembly meeting
in New York that a leader who kills his people and gases children to
death has forfeited any right to rule his country. |
Assad:
First of all, you're talking about the president of the United States,
not the president of Syria --so
he can only talk about his country.
It is not legitimate for him to judge Syria. He doesn't have the right
to tell the Syrian people who their president will be.
Second, what he says doesn't have anything to do with the reality. He's
been talking about the same thing -- that the president has to quit --
for a year and a half now. Has anything happened? Nothing has happened.
|
President Assad:
First, he is the president of the United States and has no right to
pass judgment on Syria.
Second, he has no right to tell the Syrian people whom to choose as
their president.
Third, what he says in realty has no foundation whatsoever. He has been
calling for me to step down for one and a half years. What next? Have
his statements made any impact? None whatsoever.
|
SPIEGEL:
From our point of view, it looks more like you are the one who is
ignoring reality. If you stepped own, you would spare your people a lot
of suffering.
|
SPIEGEL:
For us, it seems that you are ignoring reality. By stepping down, you
save the people a great deal of suffering. |
| Assad:
The whole problem wasn't about the president. What do killing
innocents, explosions and the terrorism that al-Qaida is bringing to
the country have to do with me being in office? |
President Assad:
This has nothing to do with me being president. Killing innocent people
and terrorizing them by explosions and car bombs, brought to our
country by al-Qaeda, is what causes pain to the Syrian people. What
does that have to do with me being in office? |
| SPIEGEL:
It has to do with the president because your troops and intelligence
services are responsible for a part of these horrors. That is your
responsibility. |
SPIEGEL:
It is relevant because your forces and security services have committed
some of these atrocities and you are responsible for that. |
| Assad:
Our decision from the very beginning was to respond to the demands of
the demonstrators, although they were not truly peaceful demonstrations
from the start. We already lost soldiers and policemen during the first
weeks. Nevertheless, a committee changed the constitution (to reflect
the protesters' concerns), and later there was a referendum. But we
also have to fight terrorism to defend our country. I admit that
mistakes were made during the implementation of this decision. |
President Assad:
Despite the fact that the protests were not peaceful at all, it was our
policy from the beginning to respond to the demands of the
demonstrators. In the first weeks, we lost soldiers and policemen who
were killed in those protests. Nevertheless, a specialized committee
changed the constitution to meet protesters’ demands and a
referendum was held. On the other hand, we also needed to confront
terrorism; it’s the duty
of the government to defend the country and take the relevant decisions
to that effect.
In the context of implementing these decisions, mistakes were made. We
must acknowledge that. |
| SPIEGEL:
The victims in the first protests in Daraa, where the insurgency began,
were largely protesters who were beaten and shot. This harshness was a
mistake on the part of your regime. |
SPIEGEL:
The rebellion started with demonstrations in Dara’a and the victims were not
only members of your security forces.The
other side also suffered a great deal. The protesters were beaten and
fired at. This
harsh treatment was one of the regime's mistakes. |
| Assad:
In every implementation in the world, you have mistakes. You are human. |
President Assad:
When political measures are implemented – anywhere in the
world - mistakes are made; we are only human.
|
| SPIEGEL:
So you admit that the harshness against the protesters was a mistake? |
SPIEGEL:
So, you acknowledge that the harsh treatment meted out at the
protesters was a mistake.
|
| Assad:
There were personal mistakes made by individuals. We all make mistakes.
Even a president makes mistakes. But even if there were mistakes in the
implementation, our decisions were still fundamentally the right ones. |
President Assad:
There were individual errors. We all make mistakes. Even the president
might make mistakes. Even if mistakes were made in on the ground, our
principal decisions were the right ones. |
| SPIEGEL:
Was the massacre at Houla only the result of the failure of individuals? |
SPIEGEL:
Was the Houla massacre also the result of mere individual failure? |
| Assad:
It was the gangs and militants who attacked the village residents,
never the government or its supporters. That's exactly what happened.
And if you talk about proof, no one has proof against this. Actually,
what happened was that our supporters are the ones who were killed, and
we can give you the names of the victims' families because they
supported our course against terror. |
President Assad:
Neither the government nor its supporters are to blame for that,
because it was the armed gangs and the extremists who attacked the
families who supported the government. This is exactly what happened.
If you want to assert something to the contrary, you need to provide
the evidence and
this is what you cannot do. We,
however, and contrary to your claims, can give you the names of the
victims who were killed because they stood against terrorism. |
| SPIEGEL:
We have plenty of evidence. Our reporters were in Houla, where they
conducted in-depth research and
spoke to survivors and relatives of the victims.
UN experts have also come to the conclusion that the 108 village
residents who were killed, including 49 children and 34 women, were the
victims of your regime. So how can you deny any responsibility and
blame the so-called terrorists? |
SPIEGEL:
We have evidence. Our reporters were in Houla and talked to the victims
and carried out thorough investigations. The U.N. experts reached a
conclusion, after investigating the case, that 108 people in the
village were killed, including 49 children and 34 women, victims of
your regime. How can you deny responsibility and accuse the so-called
terrorists. |
| Assad:
With all due respect to your reports, we are the Syrians. We live here
and we know the reality better than your reporters. We know what is
true and we can document it. |
President Assad:
With respect to your reporters, we Syrians, know our country better,
know the truth better and can fully document that. |
| SPIEGEL:
The perpetrators are part of Shabiha, a militia that is close to your
regime. |
SPIEGEL:
The culprits were ‘shabiha’, members of the
militias with links to your regime. |
| Assad's
question is missing. |
President Assad:
Do you have any evidence to prove that? |
| SPIEGEL's
answer is missing. |
SPIEGEL:
We heard this from people we consider credible. |
| Assad:
Let me be frank with you. Your question is full of misstatements.
However you put it, in the end a lie is a lie. So, what you say is not
correct. |
President Assad:
I’ll be candid and even blunt with you: your question is
based on wrong information. What
you are asserting has no ground in reality.
A lie is a lie, no matter how you phrase it or present it. |
| SPIEGEL:
So you deny that the Shabiha militia was involved? |
SPIEGEL:
That’s right. So, you don’t acknowledge that your
‘shabiha’ took part in the massacre. |
| Assad:
What do you mean by "Shabiha?" |
President Assad:
What do you mean by ‘shabiha?’ |
| SPIEGEL:
This militia, the "ghosts," who are close to your regime. |
SPIEGEL:
The militias close to your regime. |
| Assad:
This is a Turkish name. There is nothing called "Shabiha" in Syria. In
many remote areas where there is no possibility for the army and police
to go and rescue the people and defend them, people have bought arms
and set up their own small forces to defend themselves against attacks
by militants. Some of them have fought with the army, that's true. But
they are not militias that have been created to support the president.
At issue is their country, which they want to defend from al-Qaida. |
President Assad:
This name is actually of Turkish origin, in Syria don’t know
‘shabiha.’ The reality is that, when armed groups
attack remote areas, and the army and police cannot provide sufficient
protection to citizens, villagers arm themselves and create patrols in
self-defense. It’s true that some of those fought with our
forces, but these are not militias formed to protect the president.
What concerns these people is their country, which they are defending
against al-Qaeda terrorists that have been attacking them for months. |
SPIEGEL:
So massacres and terror are only perpetrated by the other side? Your
militias, security forces and secret services have nothing to do with
this?
|
SPIEGEL:
So, it was only the other side who committed massacres and terrorism,
and your soldiers, militias, security forces and intelligence services
have nothing to do with that? |
| Assad:
You cannot go to the extreme and make things absolute -- they did
everything and we did nothing, 100 percent and zero percent. Reality
isn't black and white like this. It has shades of gray. So if you want
to talk about our side, if you talk about the decisions, we are
defending our country. The mistakes are individual, and, as president, I
wouldn't discuss individual
mistakes because there are 23 million Syrians. Every
country has criminals who have to be fought. They can exist anywhere,
including the government or the army -- or outside the government and
army. This is normal, but we don't have sufficient information about
this. You're asking me to generalize, but I cannot generalize. |
President Assad:
One cannot make such sweeping generalizations: “They are one
hundred percent guilty, and we are zero percent.” The truth
is not always black and white; in the middle there are shades of grey.
But, in principle this is true. We are defending ourselves and not
anything else. As to individual mistakes, I cannot,
as president of all the Syrians, follow and check on each and every one
of the 23 million Syrians. |
| SPIEGEL's
question which appears in SANA's
transcript on the right has been deleted or is
missing. |
SPIEGEL:
Wouldn’t it be possible that the crimes against the villagers
were committed by parts of the Syrian Army outside your control? |
| President Assad's
answer which appears in SANA's transcript on the right has been deleted
or is missing. |
President Assad:
There are criminals in every country, even in your country. Those can
be everywhere. This is normal; but we don’t have sufficient
information about this. |
| SPIEGEL:
A president's legitimacy is not a question of phrases and declarations.
You are measured by your deeds. Through the deployment of chemical
weapons against your own people, you have definitively lost the
legitimacy to hold your office |
SPIEGEL:
The legitimacy of a president does not rest on slogans and promises,
but on actions. As a result of the gas attack against your people, you
forfeited every right to be in your position.
|
Assad:
We did not use chemical weapons. This is a misstatement. So is the
picture you paint of me as a man who kills his own people.
Who isn't against me? You've
got the United States, the West, the richest countries in the Arab
world and Turkey. All this and I am killing my people and they still
support me! Am I a Superman? No. So how can I still stay in power after
two and a half years? Because a big part of the Syrian people support
me, the government and the state.
Whether that figure is greater or less than 50 percent? I am not saying
that it is the bigger part of our population. But a big part means that
you are legitimate. That is very simple. And where is another another
lea who would be similarly legitimate? |
President Assad:
We did not use chemical weapons; this is not true. And the picture you
are drawing of me is not true. The United States, the entire western
world, the richest countries in the Arab world and neighbouring Turkey
are against me, and
terrorists are crossing the borders from Iraq.
On top of all of this, I kill my people, who support me nevertheless!
Am I superhuman? No.
So, why am I still in power two and half years on? The answer is
simple: because a large segment of the Syrian people support me, they
support the government and the state. Whether they constitute 50% or
less, that is a different issue. But this large segment also means
‘legitimacy.’This is how things are in reality. |
| SPIEGEL:
President Obama said after the investigation into this crime by the
United Nations that there was "no doubt" that your regime used chemical
weapons on Aug. 21 in an attack that killed more than 1,000 people. |
SPIEGEL:
After the U.N. investigation of this crime, U.S. President Obama had no
doubt that your regime used chemical weapons on August 21 in an attack
that claimed the lives of over a thousand people,
including hundreds of children. |
Assad:
Once again, I
dare Obama to give a single
piece of evidence, a single shred. The only thing he has is lies.
|
President Assad:
Once again, Obama
never provided one shred of evidence.
The only things he provided were lies. |
| SPIEGEL:
But the conclusions of the UN inspectors … |
SPIEGEL:
But the conclusions reached by the U.N. investigators |
| Assad:
What conclusions? When the inspectors came to Syria, we asked them to
continue the investigation. We are hoping for an explanation of who is
responsible for this act. |
President Assad:
What conclusions? When the investigators came to Syria, we asked them
to continue their work and we hope that they will provide an
explanation of who is responsible for this act. |
| SPIEGEL:
Based on the trajectory of the rockets, it is possible to calculate
where they were fired from -- namely the positions of your Fourth
Division. |
SPIEGEL:
The trajectory of the gas shells could be traced back from their point
of impact to their point of launching. And it shows that they were
launched from 4th division installations.
|
| Assad:
That doesn't prove anything, because the terrorists could be anywhere.
You can find them in Damascus now. They could even launch a missile
from near my house. |
President Assad:
This doesn’t prove anything. These terrorists can be
anywhere; they are even in Damascus itself. They could fire a missile
next to my home. |
| SPIEGEL:
But your opponents are not capable of firing weapons containing Sarin.
That requires military equipment, training and precision. |
SPIEGEL:
But launching rockets containing Sarin gas cannot be done by your
enemies. They don’t have the capabilities to do that because
it requires military equipment, training and accuracy. |
| Assad:
Who said that they are not capable? In the 1990s, terrorists used Sarin
gas in an attack in Tokyo. They call it "kitchen gas" because it can be
made anywhere. |
President Assad:
Who says so? Terrorists used Sarin gas in a Tokyo attack in the 1990s.
Sarin is called the “kitchen gas” because anyone
can make it anywhere, in any room. |
| SPIEGEL:
But you really can't compare these two Sarin attacks -- they aren't
comparable. This was a military action. |
SPIEGEL:
The two attacks cannot be linked or compared. This is about a military
operation in Damascus. |
| Assad:
No one can say with certainty that rockets were used -- we do not have
any evidence. The only thing certain is that Sarin was released.
Perhaps that happened when one of our rockets struck one of the
terrorists' positions? Or perhaps they made an error while they were
handling it and something happened. Because they have Sarin -- they
used it earlier in Aleppo. |
President Assad:
No one can say with any certainty that they used rockets. We have no
evidence. But the certain thing is that Sarin was used. Is it not
possible that one of our rockets hit a terrorist site containing Sarin?
Or that they made a mistake while dealing with it? They are in
possession of Sarin and they already used it in Aleppo. |
| SPIEGEL:
In total, 14
instances in which chemical weapons were used have
been detected, but never
before were they used on the same massive scale as they were in August.
Have you actually started your own investigation? |
SPIEGEL:13
cases were identified where Sarin was used, but in no case has it been
used
with such intensity as on August 21st. Have you conducted any
investigations of
your own? |
| Assad:
Any investigation should begin with the identifying the number of the
real victims. The militants said 350 victims, the US said 1,200
victims. There is something not true on the ground. There are also
inconsistencies in the pictures. One of the dead children can be seen
in two locations in two photos. What
I want to say with this is that you have to verify this case very
precisely, but no one has done that so far. We can't do that either
because it is a terrorist area. |
President Assad:
Every investigation should start with identifying the
number of the real victims. The armed groups speak about 350. The
United States
speaks about 1,400.
Médecins Sans
Frontières mention about 280.
This cannot be
right. Even the photos taken of the victims contain discrepancies. For
instance, a dead child appears in two different locations. |
| Spiegel's question
is missing. |
SPIEGEL:
You mean that the photos of the victims have been
manipulated? |
| Assad's
answer is missing. |
President Assad:
I want to say this case should be verified thoroughly;
and no one has done that so far. We cannot do it, because it is an area
where
terrorists operate.
|
| SPIEGEL:
So close to the capital city? |
SPIEGEL:
This close to the city? |
Assad:
They are very close to Damascus and very close to our army barracks.
They could kill our soldiers, and
that cannot be allowed to happen.
|
President Assad:
They are very close to Damascus, close to our military
barracks; they could kill our soldiers. |
| SPIEGEL:
Do you think you can recapture ground you have lost? |
SPIEGEL:
Do you think you can regain control of the areas you lost? |
| Assad:
Our fight is not about winning or losing ground. We're not two
countries in which one has occupied a part of the other, like Israel
has done with our Golan Heights. It's about getting rid of the
terrorists. If we liberate a piece of this ground -- and that is what
is happening in many areas in Syria -- this doesn't mean that you're
winning, because the terrorists will go to another area and destroy it.
If the people support us, then we are gaining. |
President Assad:
It is not about winning or losing in territorial terms.
We are not two states, one controlling an area belonging to the other,
as in
the case with Israel, which occupies our Golan Heights. This is about
terrorism, which should be eliminated. When we liberate a certain area,
as we
have done in many areas of Syria, it doesn’t mean that we are
winning, because
the terrorists withdraw to another area and destroy it. That’s
why we are also
concerned about our citizens’ security. It is also important
for us to win the
support of our population: we win with their support and vice versa. |
| SPIEGEL's
question is missing. |
SPIEGEL:
Do you still control the chemical weapons stockpiles? |
President Assad's
answer is missing
|
President Assad:
Yes, certainly. Furthermore, to assure you, I would
like to add that the stored materials haven’t been activated;
and no one can
use them before they are prepared for that purpose. |
| SPIEGEL:
Western intelligence agencies have tapped phone calls from your
officers in which they urge the leadership to use chemical weapons. |
SPIEGEL:
This doesn’t rule out that the army was responsible for the
attack. Western intelligence services intercepted phone calls in which
your
commanders urge the general command to use poisonous gas. |
| Assad:
That's completely fake. I don't want to base our conversation just on
such allegations. |
President Assad: This
is complete fabrication and forgery and I will not waste my time with
such allegations.
|
| SPIEGEL:Is
it irritating for you that we
in the West perceive the situation so differently? |
SPIEGEL:
Isn’t it puzzling that we,
in the West, have a completely
different assessment of the situation? |
| Assad:
Your region always arrives late when it comes to understanding the
actual situation. When we were speaking about violent protests, you
were still talking about "peaceful demonstrations." And when we started
talking about extremists, you started talking about "some" militants.
When you spoke of extremists, we were already talking about al-Qaida.
Then they started talking about a "few" terrorists at a time when we
were already talking about a majority. Now they have started talking
about it being 50-50. Of course, John Kerry is still in the past --
he's talking about 20 percent. |
President Assad:
In fact, your region is always late in recognizing
reality and is extremely slow in understanding this reality. In the
beginning,
we talked about violent protests, while you talked about peaceful
demonstrations. When we started talking about extremists, you were
still
talking about “some militants.” When we talked
about al-Qaeda, you were still
talking about a few terrorists, although they are actually the
majority. Now
you realize that it is about 50/50. Take for instance, Secretary of
State Kerry
who still sticks to the past and talks about 20%. This
is exactly what I meant
with the reality deficit you have. |
SPIEGEL:
Could it be that we hesitate in following your assessments of the
situation because we lack confidence in you? And how would you explain
this lack of confidence?
|
President Assad:
I think the West prefers to trust al-Qaeda rather than
to trust me.
|
| SPIEGEL:
That's absurd. |
SPIEGEL:
This is absurd!! |
| Assad:
No, this is freedom of expression, please. That's my opinion, I'm
telling you frankly. Everything that the West has been doing for the
past 10 years has supported al-Qaida. Maybe they don't have this
intention, but in reality it is what happened. Because of this, we
now have al-Qaida here, with
fighters from 80 countries. We have to deal with tens
of thousands of fighters. And
with that, I am just talking about the foreigners. |
President Assad:
I
mean it. Maybe you didn’t mean it, but it looks like
it: all the decisions you
have taken in the West for the past ten years have
been in support of al-Qaeda. Some might have done that intentionally
and some
inadvertently. In any case, and through Western support, now we
have thousands
of al-Qaeda fighters from 80
countries. We have to deal with them. I am
referring to those who have come from outside Syria. |
| SPIEGEL: You
have lost many soldiers who
are defecting to the opposition. Are you trying to tell us that they
are becoming al-Qaida supporters overnight? |
SPIEGEL: You are losing
many soldiers, those who defect to the
opposition. Are you telling us that they became al-Qaeda affiliates
overnight? |
| Assad:
No. I didn't say everybody is now al-Qaida. I said the majority. The
minority is comprised of deserters or outlaws. At the beginning of the
crisis, 60,000 Syrian outlaws were walking around freely outside of
prison. They alone would be enough to create an army. I can't tell you
the number of people fighting against us because most
of them come in illegally through the borders.
They come to go to paradise in their jihad against atheists or
non-Muslims. Even if you get rid of thousands of them, they will still
have a constant supply coming from outside. |
President Assad:
No, I am not saying that they are all al-Qaeda, but
most of them are. The minority are defectors or criminals. At the
beginning of
the crisis, we had over 60,000 outlaws at large. Those alone could form
a whole
army. How many are fighting us? I cannot give a specific figure.
Most of them
cross the borders illegally for jihad.
They come to Syria in the belief that
they will go to heaven by waging war on atheists and non-Muslims. Even
when we
get rid of thousands of them, their ranks are replenished by other
jihadists. |
| SPIEGEL:
And you still think you have a chance of winning this war? |
SPIEGEL:
Yet, you believe you will win in this conflict? |
Assad:
Even if we don't have the chance, we don't have any other choice but to
fight and to defend our country.
|
President Assad:
Even if there was no chance of winning the fight, we
have no other choice but to defend our country. |
| SPIEGEL:
Let's go back to the issue of chemical weapons. We would like to remind
you that you have always denied possessing chemical weapons. But
now, after the crimes against humanity on Aug. 21 and the threat of a
military strike by the US, you have admitted possessing them. |
SPIEGEL:
On the subject of trust, we want to remind you that you
have always denied that you possessed chemical weapons, while now you
acknowledge that you have them.
|
| Assad:
We never said we didn't have chemical weapons. We always say "if we
had, then" |
President Assad:
We never stated that we had no chemical weapons. We
always phrased our statements “if we had …, then
…” But
we never lied.
|
SPIEGEL: Chemical
weapons are no reason to laugh, but there is nothing else we can do. (doesn't appear in SANA
translation)
|
SPIEGEL's
Question is missing |
Assad:
In any case, we never lied. (doesn't appear in SANA)
|
Assad's
answer is missing |
| SPIEGEL:
There is evidence that German firms delivered chemicals to Syria that
can also be used in the
making of chemical weapons. Do you have more details about that? |
SPIEGEL:
It is reported that German companies supplied you with
chemical materials, which
you used to make chemical
weapons. Do you have more
specific information about this? |
| Assad:
No, I
don't know. It is not my business.
But in principle we do not get any help from abroad when it comes to
building the weapons. We don't need it. We are experts in this area
ourselves. |
President Assad:
No,
because these are technical issues.
But, in
principle, we didn’t receive outside help to make these
weapons, because we
didn’t need assistance. We are experts in the field. |
| SPIEGEL:
How many tons of Sarin or other chemical weapons do you currently have
at your disposal? |
SPIEGEL:
Then, how many tons of Sarin gas or other agents do you
have? |
| Assad:
That's classified information until we give it to the Organization for
the Prohibition of Chemical Weapns (OPCW). |
President Assad:
This remains classified information until it is
provided to OPCW.
|
| SPIEGEL:
We know that Western secret services suspect a thousand tons. |
SPIEGEL:
According to intelligence agencies, you have a thousand
tons in your stockpile. |
| Assad:
In the end, it's about the concept, not the tons. We have the
principle that we have chemical
weapons,
but we
think the Middle East should
be a weapons of mass destruction-free zone. |
President Assad:
What’s important is the principle not the figure. We
have these weapons
– yes, but we
are committed to making the
whole Middle East
a WMD free zone. |
| SPIEGEL:
That, too, is a question of trust. If
you admit to having 45 storage depots for such weapons, how do we know
that is correct? |
SPIEGEL:
This is also a matter of trust. You
say you have 32 stores,
while Western intelligence services put the figure at 50. |
| Assad:
The
president doesn't deal with the numbers. He deals with the policy.
We're very transparent. The experts can go to every site. They are
going to have all the data from our government, and then they're going
to verify that data on the ground. Then they can say if we are credible
or not. We don't accept or commit ourselves to any agreement partially.
This is our history. We're not going to pay for the destruction of the
weapons, though. |
President Assad: This is a technical
issue better determined by
specialists. As president, my focus is on the political track.
We are
transparent and the experts can access any facility. We’ll
provide them with
the data, which they can examine and verify and then judge our
credibility. When
we say we are transparent, we mean it: to date, we have complied with
every
agreement we have signed. Our
history testifies to this. However, we will not
bear the costs of destroying the weapons. |
| SPIEGEL:
Is the international community supposed to believe that you don't have
secret depots? |
SPIEGEL:
And the international community should simply accept that
you haven’t hidden secret stockpiles somewhere? |
| Assad:
In international relations there's nothing called trust; there's
something called mechanism. They don't have to trust me in person. What
counts is that the institutions work together -- my government and the
OPCW -- and if I have the trust of the Syrian people. I'm not made by
the West. I am made by the Syrians. |
President Assad:
In international relations, things are not about trust
and believing,
they are about setting up the mechanisms on which the approach
can be based. Whether you
trust me as a person is not important. What is
important is for institutions to work with each other: my government
and the
OPCW. What is important for me is to win the trust of the Syrian people
and not
the West. What is important for me is Syria not the West. |
| SPIEGEL:
You don't need the West? |
SPIEGEL:
Don’t you need the West? |
| Assad:
Of course we do, but not instead of the Syrians, and not instead of our
real friends like the Russians. The Russians understand the reality
here much better. I'm not just praising them because we have long
relations. They are more independent than Europe, which is too oriented
toward US policy. |
President Assad:
Of course, but not to replace the Syrians, or the
Russians who are real friends. They understand better than the West the
truth
about what is happening here in reality. If I am praising them now,
this is not
because of the close ties that have linked us for years, but because,
frankly,
the Russians are more independent than you are in Europe. You
rely too much on
the United States in your policies and easily adopt its policies. |
| SPIEGEL:
The Russians are
only concerned with their
strategic interests. |
SPIEGEL:
The fact of the matter is that the Russians have strategic
interests in Syria. |
| Assad:
You can discuss this with President Vladimir Putin. But let me say
this: Some Europeans have come to us through different channels to say
that they are convinced about our position and analysis, but cannot
voice this out loud. |
President Assad:
You can discuss that with President Putin. But I will
say that some Europeans have come and signaled that they are convinced
with our
political position and that they share our analyses and explanations of
the
situation. But they cannot say this in public because it’s
difficult for them
at this moment in time. |
| SPIEGEL:
Is that also true with regard to your portrayal of the chemical weapons
attack? |
SPIEGEL:
And this applies to the poisonous gas attack? |
| Assad:
Obama's lies couldn't even convince the American people. According to
one poll, 51 percent were against a military strike against Syria. The
British parliament was against it too. The French parliament had a
bitter debate about it. The atmosphere in Europe was against such an
attack. Why? Because the majority didn't believe the story. |
President Assad:Of
course. I say some, not all. To make this clearer,
I’ll elaborate on the accusations against us. Both Obama and
Kerry presented
lies. But Obama couldn’t convince his people with his lies.
According to one
opinion poll, 51% of the American people reject a military strike
against
Syria. The British Parliament was against the strike too; and there was
a tough
debate in the French parliament. The
whole “atmosphere” in Europe was against the strike,including the Vatican.
Why?
Because most people didn’t believe Obama’s story. |
| SPIEGEL:
Are any of the European contacts that you continue to maintain from
Germany? |
SPIEGEL:
Is Germany part of the contacts you are making?
|
| Assad:
We have some relations with some institutions, and have recently been
using channels that didn't exist before. We exchange some information,
but we cannot say that we have political relations. |
President Assad:
We have contacts with some institutions and recently
there have been channels that didn’t exist before. We
exchange information, but
we cannot talk about political communications. |
| SPIEGEL:
Does Germany play a special role for you? |
SPIEGEL:
Does Germany play a special role for you? |
| Assad:
When I think of Europe, I ask myself who is closer to the reality in my
region?
Every European position is still far from our reality.
Germany and Austria have the most objective and closest position to
reality. The
German position is the closest. |
President Assad:
When I look at Europe, the question for me is: who is
closer to the reality of what is happening in our region? For us now,
Germany
and Austria have the most objective vision and are the closest to
reality. This
helps achieve Europe’s interests. |
| SPIEGEL:
Could Germany take on the role of intermediary? |
SPIEGEL:
Could Germany play an intermediary role? |
| Assad:
Of course, I would like to see envoys from Germany come to Syria to see
and discuss the reality. Coming here doesn't mean you support the
government. But if you come here, you can do, you can talk, you can
discuss, you can convince. If you think you have to isolate us, you
only end up isolating yourselves. This is also about your interests: Do
you really want a backyard that is filled with al-Qaida? When you
support instability here? After two and a half years, you should
rethink your policies. |
President Assad:
I would be happy if German envoys visited Damascus to
engage with us directly. If they talk to us, it doesn’t mean
they support our
government.
They can ascertain for themselves the situation and base their work
on the facts. If they think
that by not engaging with us, they are isolating
us, I tell them: you are isolating yourselves from reality; so,
it’s about
their interests. What
do they gain when al-Qaeda is in their backyard wreaking
havoc on the world? After two
and half years, they should reconsi their
policies. They
should ask themselves: what are they gaining. What do their
people gain when there is a state of chaos that they are supporting? |
| SPIEGEL:
Given the unrest in your country, do you even have your chemical
weapons arsenal under control? |
SPIEGEL:
In light of the unrest in your country, are the chemical
weapons stockpiles un control? |
| Assad:
Of course, under full control. Because
let me tell you this: the material that could be used by any regular
army doesn't exist in the stores in activated form. So no one can use
it before it is activated. |
President Assad:
There is no cause for concern, they are very well
protected. |
SPIEGEL:
Is this also true of depots containing biological weapons, which you
also possess?
|
SPIEGEL:
This applies to biological weapons too? You have biological
weapons? |
| Assad:
It is classified information. We never talk about military classified
information, but this should not be understood as confirmation that we
possess them. |
President Assad:
We didn’t give any information in this regard because
it is consi ed classified information. This should not be understood as
confirmation that we possess them. |
| SPIEGEL:
Do you understand the international community's fears that these
weapons of mass destruction could fall into the hands of terrorists? |
SPIEGEL:
You understand the international community’s concern about
WMDs falling into the hands of the terrorists. |
| Assad:
The situation is not as bad as it seems in the media and the West.
There is no need for any undue concern. |
President Assad:
It is not as bad as it is portrayed by the media and
believed in the West. There is no need for any undue concern. |
| SPIEGEL:
According to our information, the armed opposition controls at least 40
percent of the country, and some estimates put that figure as high as
more than two-thirds of the country. |
SPIEGEL:
As far as we know, you lost about 40% of your territories
to the armed opposition, and in some areas about two thirds of the land. |
Assad:
These numbers are exaggerated. Sixty percent of Syria is desert. Who's
in the desert? Nobody. In the rest of the country they don't control a
single full area.
|
President Assad:
These are exaggerated figures. 60% of the country is
desert and there is nobody there. In other parts of the country, the
terrorists
don’t control any connected areas. |
| SPIEGEL:
That's not true for the area along the Turkish borders. |
SPIEGEL:
This doesn’t apply to the area adjacent to the Turkish
borders. |
| Assad:
They are on the borders in the north of Aleppo with Turkey, but only on
that part, not fully. They have some areas, but they are just focal
points. We're not talking about a front. Sometimes they are isolated in
areas where
there's no army to fight
them. But this isn't about percentages. The solidarity of the
population is much more important to us. And this is growing because
many don't want terrorists destroying the country any more. |
President Assad:
They exist only in the area north of Aleppo, otherwise,
there are only pockets. You cannot talk about a real frontline against
us.
Sometimes, these fighters are completely isolated and exist in areas where
we
don’t want to deploy the army.
The percentage of land is not important to us.
People’s solidarity is much more important and this is
growing all the time,
because they see what the terrorists are doing and what it leads to. |
| SPIEGEL:
The brutality of the conflict has turned a quarter of the population --
some 6
million people -- into
refugees. |
SPIEGEL:
As a result of the violence of the conflict, a quarter of
the Syrian population, i.e.
five million people have
become refugees. |
| Assad:
We don't have a precise number. Even 4 million could be exaggerated
because many Syrians moved within Syria to another house or with
relatives and didn't register themselves. |
President Assad:
We don’t have accurate figures; but even four million
is an exaggerated figure. Many of those who are displaced within Syria
go to
live with relatives and don’t appear in any statistics.
|
| SPIEGEL:
You sound as if you are talking about a tax increase and not a
humanitarian catastrophe. |
SPIEGEL:
You talk about this issue as if it were an issue of paying
taxes and not a humanitarian disaster. |
| Assad:
Actually,
no. In the West, when you ask
about the number, you talk about it like spreadsheets. If you have 1
million or 5 million, you're going to do the same. Whether it's 70,000
victims, 80,000, then 90,000, or 100,000, it's like an auction. It's
not an auction -- it's a tragedy. Whether it's 1,000 or 10,000, it's
the same. |
President Assad:The
exact opposite is true. You
in the West use these
figures as if you were reading a spreadsheet: four, five, six, seven
million. These
figures are of your making: seventy thousand victims, eighty thousand,
ninety
thousand, one hundred thousand, as if it were an auction. |
| SPIEGEL:
The flood of refugees is happening for one reason -- you and your
regime. |
SPIEGEL:
The reason for this exodus is that people are fleeing you
and your regime. |
| Assad:
Sorry, is this a question or a statement of fact? If it's a statement,
it's not correct. If it's a question, the first thing we have to ask is
why people leave? You don't have one reason; you have multiple reasons.
One of the reasons is that many people left their homes and houses
because of the threat of the terrorists. |
President Assad:
Is this a question or a statement? If it’s a statement,
then it’s completely wrong. If people flee, they do so for a
number of reasons,
first of which is fear of the terrorists. |
| SPIEGEL:
No one is fleeing your soldiers and security forces? |
SPIEGEL:
Nobody flees from your soldiers and security forces? |
Assad:
The army represents Syria, otherwise you wouldn't have the army,
because it would have been divided a long time ago. It is a threat to
no one. When it comes to refugees, you have to ask yourself a question
about the other governments, especially the Turkish government. What is
their interest in having these high numbers? You know what it is? Their
interest is to use them as a humanitarian card with the UN. Some other
countries used them to get money for themselves, not the refugees. So
you have corruption, interests and some people that could have fled
because they are scared of the government, but we don't have anything
against them. And in the last two weeks, more than 100,000 or 150,000,
depending on the estimate, came back to Syria. So the tide has recently
been reversed.
|
President Assad:
The army represents Syria; otherwise it would have
disintegrated long ago. It doesn’t pose a threat to anyone.
When we talk about
refugees, let’s talk about another government – the
Turkish government – which
uses these figures for its own interests. It manipulates these figures
and
plays this humanitarian card at the United Nations in
or to put pressure on
us. Another
reason for their interests is the money they receive to help the
refugees, the money that moves only in the wrong direction, to their
pockets;
there are so many reasons. Of
course within these large numbers of refugees,
yes, some did flee in fear of the government but the situation is now
changing
with about a hundred or a hundred and fifty thousand refugees returning
home.
|
| SPIEGEL:How
did you convince people to return? |
SPIEGEL:How
could you push those to take that step? |
| Assad:
We worked hard to bring them back. We engaged with everybody to
alleviate their fears. If you didn't violate the law, then we have no
problem with you. If you are against the government, come be against
the government in Syria. We don't have a problem. That was very
successful. |
President Assad:
We engaged with them in or to dispel their fears. Those
who committed no crime have nothing to fear. Our message was: if you
want to be
against the government: come back and speak against us; and it worked. |
| SPIEGEL:
From a military perspective, however, you haven't had any success. The
capture of Aleppo that was promised has not come to pass. Maalula
remains a major problem, and there's even fighting in the suburbs of
Damascus. We heard the thunder of grenades on our way to your palace. |
SPIEGEL:
You cannot show any military victory on any military front:
you regaining control over Aleppo, which you announced,
hasn’t happened. Ma’aloula
is still a big problem. Even parts of Damascus are being shelled. We
heard the
sound of shelling on our way to your palace. |
Assad:
When you have this kind of crisis, you cannot say you are as strong as
before. The damage is much too massive. To be realistic, it will take
time before we get over this problem. We don't have any other option
than to believe in our victory.
(missing
text here)
|
President Assad:
When you are dealing with this kind of crisis, it is
impossible for you to be as strong as in the past. The damage is huge
and we’ll
need a lot of time to overcome this.
But the army and the people are united;
and we have no choice but to trust and believe in our victory and in
saving our
country. |
| SPIEGEL:
How can you be so confident of victory when you need help from
Lebanon's militant
group Hezbollah? |
SPIEGEL:
How can you believe in your victory if you brought
Hezbollah in to help you? |
| Assad:
Lebanon is a small country with a population of 4 million. In Damascus
alone we have 5 million. Syria is too big for Hezbollah even if they
want to send all their troops. We fought with them on the border with
Lebanon against terrorists who attacked their loyalists, and we
cooperated, and that was good. |
President Assad:
Lebanon is a very small country, about four million
people. Damascus alone has five million, and Syria is too large and
wide a
country to be covered by Hezbollah. We cooperated on the borders with
Lebanon
in the fight against those terrorists
who were also attacking Hezbollah
members. That cooperation
was fruitful and successful. |
| SPIEGEL:
So you could actually do without Hezbollah's help? |
SPIEGEL:
So, you can at last do without Hezbollah’s help? |
| Assad:
That's not what I said. I'm talking about the perception in the West
and in the media that Hezbollah is fighting because the Syrian army
cannot fight. Even
if you want to make it a reality, you can't, because the proportion
doesn't work. |
President Assad:
I didn’t say that, I only wanted to clarify and correct
the western perception that the Syrian army couldn’t fight
any more and that’s
why Hezbollah intervened. |
| SPIEGEL:
Hezbollah are among the few who still support you. Russian President
Putin appears to be slowly losing his patience with you.
And the new Iranian president, Hassan Rohani, could find rapprochement
with the US to be more important than your survival. |
SPIEGEL:
Hezbollah is one of the few entities that continue to
support you. It seems that President Putin is gradually losing his
patience
with you. |
| Assad:
Putin is more supportive than ever. This has been proven by Russia's
three vetoes against sanctions in the UN Security Council. |
President Assad:
President Putin is more supportive of us now than any
other time. He showed this by using three vetoes at the Security
Council to
prevent sanctions against us.
|
| SPIEGEL:
But he voted in favor of a resolution to destroy your chemical weapons. |
SPIEGEL:
But he endorsed the most recent resolution, which calls for
the destruction of the chemical weapons |
| Assad:
It's a good resolution. |
President Assad:
That was a good resolution |
| SPIEGEL:
Because it prevented a US air strike? |
SPIEGEL:
Because it averted the military strike? |
| Assad:
There's not a single point in that resolution that's against our
interests. The Russians see very clearly what we are doing here because
they suffered from terrorists in Chechnya, and they know the meaning of
terrorism. |
President Assad:
There was no item in that resolution that undermined
our interests. President Putin knows from his experience in fighting
terrorism
in Chechnya what we are going through here. |
SPIEGEL:
Does that mean you are confident Moscow will deliver the S-300 air
defense system you've been waiting on for months?
|
SPIEGEL:
That’s why you are confident Moscow will provide you with
the S300 air defense system, which you have been waiting months for? |
| Assad:
He said very clearly on many different occasions that he would continue
supporting Syria, and that he's committed to the contract -- not only
on air defense, but all kinds of armaments. |
President Assad:
He has said more than once that he will support Syria
in different fields and that he is committed to the contracts signed
between
us. This doesn’t only apply to air defense systems but to
other weapons
as well
which enable us to defend ourselves. |
| SPIEGEL:
The international community will do everything possible to prevent you
from acquiring more arms. |
SPIEGEL:
The international community will do everything to prevent
arming you. |
| Assad:
On what grounds? They don't have any right. We
are a state, and we have the
right to defend ourselves. We don't occupy others' lands. Why doesn't
the international community oppose Israel when they get all these
armaments? Germany sent Israel three submarines, and they occupy our
land. We don't trust the West because of its double standards. |
President Assad:
What right do they have? We
are a sovereign state, and
we have the right to defend ourselves.
We don’t occupy anybody’s land. Why
isn’t the international community bothered when Israel gets
all kinds of
weapons? Why should Israel receive three submarines from Germany,
despite the
fact that it is an occupying power and still occupies our land? We
have the
right to arm ourselves in accordance with the U.N. charter. This is why
the
West isn’t objective in this position; it’s
because of these double standards
that we don’t trust the West. |
| SPIEGEL:
Even if Putin delivers the new air defense system, aren't you afraid
that Israel will
bomb it to pieces? |
SPIEGEL:
Aren’t you concerned that Israel
will shell the new defense
system as soon as it arrives from Moscow? |
| Assad:
You cannot be afraid. When you are in a war situation, you don't do
something because you're afraid of doing it. You have to strengthen
yourself and not to allow your enemy to destroy your armaments or to
win. |
President Assad:
In our case, and in this state of war, we
don’t allow
ourselves to feel fear. We
have to do everything to be strong; and we
shall not
allow anyone to destroy our armaments and military equipment. |
| SPIEGEL:
And if they try? |
SPIEGEL:
And if it happened? |
| Assad:
When
that happens we can talk
about it. |
President Assad:
Then,
if things come to that, we
shall talk about it
then. |
SPIEGEL:
In the past you sounded more self-confident when it came to Israel.
|
SPIEGEL:
In the past your rhetoric about Israel was more
self-confident. |
| Assad:
No, we have always said we need peace and stability in this region.
Even if you want to retaliate, you have to ask yourself the question:
What would the result be? Now that we're fighting al-Qaida, in
particular, we have to be cautious that we don't start a new war. |
President Assad:
No, we need peace and stability in this region. We have
always been aware of this. When it comes to revenge and reacting to a
strike,
we need to ask ourselves: where would that lead, particularly now that
we are
fighting al-Qaeda. We need to be careful not to ignite a new war. |
| SPIEGEL:
At what point will you be able to claim victory over al-Qaida? |
SPIEGEL:
When will you win against al-Qaeda? |
| Assad:
The victory is stability. The first phase is to get rid of the
terrorists. The second one, which is more difficult and dangerous, is
to get rid of their ideology, which has infiltrated some parts in
Syria. It cannot be that an eight-year-old boy tries to behead someone,
which happened in the north. Or that children watch the beheading with
jubilation, happy like they're watching a soccer match, for example. If
we don't deal with this problem, which is more dangerous than the
terrorists themselves, we're
going to face a bleak future. |
President Assad:
When we restore stability; that’s why we must get rid
of the terrorists. Then, we need to get rid of their ideology that has
infiltrated certain areas of Syria, because it is more dangerous than
terrorism
itself. This ideology, which encourages an eight-year old boy to
slaughter a
man while adults and children watch and cheer as if they were watching
a
football match. This
actually happened in northern Syria.
Getting rid of this
mentality and liberating ourselves from
it is going to be more difficult than
getting rid of the chemical weapons. |
| SPIEGEL:
This scene wouldn't sound all that surprising if it had taken place in
Somalia. But in Syria? |
SPIEGEL:
Such scenes might not be strange in states like Somalia,
Liberia and Sierra Leone, but in Syria? |
| Assad:
The brutality we are experiencing in Syria is incredible. People
slaughtered a Christian bishop by slitting his throat with a small
knife. |
President Assad:
The brutality we are
witnessing in Syria is incredible. Think
of the Bishop whose head the terrorists severed with a small knife. |
| SPIEGEL:
Do you still believe you can return Syria to its pre-war state? |
SPIEGEL:
Somalia, Liberia and Sierra Leone have been
“failed” states
for decades. Yet, you believe
you can restore Syria back to pre-rebellion
times? |
| Assad:
In terms of stability, of course we can. If we stop billions in support
for the terrorists from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, and the logistic
support of Turkey, we could solve this problem in a few months. |
President Assad:
Concerning stability, yes, when an end is put to billions of dollars
flowing from Saudi Arabia and Qatar, when Turkey stops its logistical
assistance to the terrorists. Then we can solve the problem in a few
months.
|
| SPIEGEL:
Is it still possible to find a solution through negotiations? |
SPIEGEL:
Is a negotiated solution still possible? |
Assad:
With the militants? No. The definition of political opposition doesn't
include an
army. We will negotiate with
whoever wants to lay down his arms and go back to normality. Since we
discussed deserters before, I'd like to point out that it's going the
other way too. People who used to be militants are fighting with the
army now.
|
President Assad:
With the armed groups - no. My definition of the
opposition is a
political program or entity that doesn’t carry weapons.
If they
were to lay down their weapons and return to normal life, it would be
possible
to talk to such people. When we spoke earlier about defectors, it is
also
important to point out that now many of them are withdrawing from rebel
camps
and joining the fight on our side.
|
| SPIEGEL:
The international community blames you for the escalation of this
conflict, whose end is not yet in sight. How do you live with this
guilt? |
SPIEGEL:
For the international community, you are responsible for
escalating this conflict, which has no end in sight. How can you cope
with such
guilt? |
| Assad:
It's not about me, but about Syria. The situation in Syria worries and
saddens me; that's where my concern is. I am not concerned for myself. |
President Assad:
It’s not about me, but about Syria. The situation in
Syria worries and saddens me; that’s where my concern is, I
am not concerned
for myself. |
SPIEGEL:
Are your wife and three children still standing by you?
|
SPIEGEL:
Do your wife and three children stand at your side? |
| Assad:
Of course, they never left Damascus for one moment. |
President Assad:
Certainly, they have never left Damascus for one
moment.
|
| SPIEGEL:
Do you sometimes fear that something like what happened to Romanian
President Ceausescu might happen to you? After a short trial, he was
shot by his own soldiers. |
SPIEGEL:
Has it crossed your mind that your end will be similar to
President Ceausescu of Romania, when he was killed by a group of his
soldiers? |
| Assad:
If I were afraid, I would have left Syria a long time ago. |
President Assad:
I am not worried about myself. Had I been worried and
fearful, I would have left Syria a long time ago. |
| SPIEGEL:
Mr. President, we thank you for this interview. |
SPIEGEL:
Mr. President, thank you very much for this interview. |
The significant
omissions and textual differences in these two translations of the
interview obviously tell us that either the SANA or the Der Spiegel
translators doctored the original interview to suit whatever respective
agendas they may have had. To determine the culprits we used a number
of criteria including motive, linguistics (use of terms) and
beneficiaries of the variants. Motive and beneficiaries are closely
linked as they go to the purpose served by changing the text. Using
these 3 indices, in our analysis all the differences in text favored
the US/European/Israeli position against Assad. The aggressive tone of
Der Spiegel's "interview" contains 32 accusatory statements rather than
questions for President Assad to answer and other simiilar statements
(not questions) with a question mark added. Consistently the
differences in text reflected negatively on President Assad. The
"motive and beneficiary" criteria also add weight to Assad's candor as
he frequently admits his own mistakes and that of his government. If
SANA were intent on modifying the interview in Assad's favor, these
admissions surely would have been altered.
Finally, a linguistic analysis suggests that the Der Spiegel
translator(s) attributed words to President Assad that we were unable
to find in his other interviews or quotes in the media. Taking just one
of those terms as an example, "militants" ascribed to him by
Der Spiegel is not a term used by President Assad. He typically refers
to al Queda and other foreign invaders as "armed groups," "terrorists,"
"extremists" and "jihadis." "Militants" is a term used by the west and
not part of President Assad's lexicon. On the other hand, President
Assad often begins his answers in this and other interviews with, "Of
course."
Another striking example of this is found in Der Spiegel's attribution
of President Assad's response to their statement/question,
Many may be unaware that the president is a former medical doctor and
the reader can judge which quote sounds more like they were uttered by
a trained physician:
sounds more like a physician.
Considering the photo-shopped negative image of President Assad on the
front page of this issue of Der Spiegel, their aggressive attitude,
their assertions and opinions rather than open questions, their blatant
use of the word "we" speaking collectively with the anti-Assad western
governments and these criteria for analysis it is our opinion that Der
Spiegel translated the interview dishonestly to further villainize the
Syrian President as the West is wont to do for the US-European quest to
bring down the al-Assad government (i.e. "regime change") and to
destabilize the region. Their servile pandering to the United States is
typical of Germany and most European US lapdogs.
This interview can not only be viewed as an effort to villainize
President al-Assad in lock-step with the western media. It also serves
an effort to gather intelligence. A number of questions asked sought to
pry information from President Assad but clearly, he was well prepared
for this. Two examples of this are Der Spiegel's questioning of the
president about Syria's response should Israel bomb the country and
questions about his armaments.
In the face of the many crass personal insults and dishonesty,
disrespectful of a head of state by the Der Spiegel "interviewers,"
President Bashar al-Assad maintained an impressive amount of
self-control with thoughtful, rational replies. His dignity exposed the
weaknesses in Der Spiegel's western political positions. The primates
who conducted this shameful attack were simply out of their
league.
.
