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WTC Demolition?

by curious george Saturday, Aug. 02, 2008 at 12:22 AM

Who is "Gretavo Verdadero"?

Gretavo Verdadero is owner of the website The website appears to be one of those fake 911 truth websites intended to paint all 911 truth websites as kooky in the way that sending a smelly unwashed government agent into a crowd of real anarchists gives the impression that anarchists are smelly I've seen posts by this "Gretavo" character on various 911 forums. The main push of his participation seems to be to paint everyone else as a fake 911 truther, which is consistent with the starting assumption of this post.

I began to wonder, just who is this "Gretavo Verdadero"? I found strange videos by Gretavo on Youtube. I found posts by people saying he was smearing them online. Finally, I discovered that "Gretavo Verdadero" has a real name and that name is Gustavo Espada, some person working at Harvard University in IT.

A search on Espada yields an accusation that he is a CIA agent. A little more digging reveals statements he has made online that he grew up on U.S. Embassies in Latin America. Most interesting of all is a statement on his website. If you visit his website, there is a link with the text: "A note to U.S. servicemen and women an other federal agents"

I was kind of curious about why a 911 truther would be posting a note to federal agents, so I checked out that link. It goes to this page:

On this page, a strange page, is an image that contains text. Now, if you put text in an image, Google won't index it. Near the bottom of the text is the sentence: "The author of this site is an American citizen who has served his country as you now do, and whose sole interest is to preserve our liberty in a time of great danger and deception..."

I don't know about you, but I find this statement very interesting. Specifically this: Espada claims to be someone who has served his county as one of the following, by virtue of the addressees of the link: a U.S. Serviceman or a Federal Agent. Now, I've found no information claiming that he has ever been a U.S. Serviceman, so this leaves "Federal Agent." Interesting?

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Just a conman, not an agent

by anon Friday, Dec. 02, 2016 at 9:21 AM

Gustavo Espada aka gretavo isn't a CIA agent. He IS a political conman, of some years standing. His only interest in entangling anarchists and peace activists in 9/11 "truth" is to build a fake grassroots movement for the Ron Paul alt-right. What he gets out of it, no one knows.

But people do know he doesn't like people knowing he was a member of Jim Fetzer's Scholars for 9/11 Truth organization:

"Lacking a smoking gun to make their argument, Scholars for 9/11 Truth members point to a list of reasons they say proves their point when taken together.

"It's sort of a cumulative effect," said Gustavo Espada, 31, of Somerville, a member and graduate of Harvard, where he works in information technology. "I don't think anybody has a 100 percent view of what actually did happen on 9/11."

Espada spends about 10 hours a week handing out literature, Web logging and talking with people on the street about his views on 9/11. A 90-minute symposium organized by Scholars for Truth was also broadcast on C-SPAN last month."

Or that his website was host to all sorts of sleazy content if you look in the wayback machine:

Including some out there delusional attacks of people as "traitors":

The bad photoshops are not for the faint of heart.

Espada is also a Holocaust Denier, claiming Zyklon B couldn't have been used to kill people and being a fan boi of the fraud David Cole(Real Truther is another nom of Espada's):

"Well misterguy, I'm glad you believe in free speech. In theory anyway--you seem quite keen on using every non-legal method of discouraging discussion in this case. Let's start here, for example. The gas chambers. You assure me and everyone else that the Nazis used gas chambers to kill large numbers of people (presumably Jewish and otherwise). I have watched a documentary made by David Cole, who is Jewish, that raised valid questions about the "gas chamber" at Auschwitz. Now before you get all upset for my putting that in quotation marks, you have to at least acknowledge a few things that you would know if you watched David's film of his tour of Auschwitz.

The gas chamber at Auschwitz appears to be a large room with holes at the top which are said to be for throwing in the zyklon-b pellets (not a fake shower, by the way, that also seems to be legend) The first tour guide David speaks to tells him that this is the gas chamber in its original state. David notices some mrkings on the floor where there seem to have been walls at one point. She insists this is in the original state, including the holes in the ceiling."

Espada was interviewed by Kevin Barrett, a "truther" who supported White Supremacist Merlin Miller for president in 2012:

The interview, which included Espada's batshit delusional co owner/moderator of his forum, was deleted but could be found here:

The comments show this person is either as much of a conartist as Espada is or a brain dead millennial imbecile:

" Subject: Re: Bio information for Friday show

Date: July 23, 2008 1:48:21 PM CDT

Sure, post away -- I did notice a typo in there somewhere -- if you could proof-read it that would be appreciated.

I agree that your more nuanced take on the "fake consensus" is more correct. My analysis is based on reading that site intensively for the last 2+ years and following certain posters as they attempt to channel the discourse in a particular direction. Jon Gold is the prime example, and he has been increasingly strident both in refusing to accept the overwhelming evidence for CD (actually ED but that's not a good abbreviation at all) and in deriding and dismissing those of us who do. He was the person who came up with the whole idiotic "church of controlled demolition" meme, which tries to frame us a cultists. It's very true that the site still supports the Architects and Dr. Jones, but it had also prohibited me and others from responding to any of Jon's posts (as in, did not publish them) for a good 6 months before the banning. I would argue that this in fact IS an attempt to control dissent. Anyway, that's a complicated argument to make and I'm typing with my thumbs.

As for David Cole, he produced a very interesting video of his experience touring Auschwitz -- I'm away from my computer but maybe RT/gretavo can send you the link. He's a very courageous Jewish guy who was quite young when he made it and subsequently received death threats from the JDL and "recanted" -- chalking his mistake up to being a self-hating Jew. "

In the real world, everyone knows David Cole is a sleazeball, as are the conspiracy clowns this chick worships. The entire "controlled demolition" so called theory was based on a fraudulent peer review paper published in a vanity press.

So, yeah, Gustavo Espada is a kook, but he knows he's a kook pushing a fraud. Hard to tell if he started out as a liar or if his involvement with this Sara chick pushed him over the edge. She makes him look even more cray cray than he is. The weird thing? The current site is virtually dead, but he keeps paying for it. It's registered through February of 2017:


Registry Domain ID: 338410932_DOMAIN_COM-VRSN

Registrar WHOIS Server:

Registrar URL:

Update Date: 2015-02-11T17:22:36Z

Creation Date: 2006-02-08T00:30:12Z

Registrar Registration Expiration Date: 2017-02-08T00:30:12Z

Guess he's got money from his rich family to burn.

Like dude, it's over. No one is buying this swill anymore.

Anyone conned by Espada should just contact the FBI or Harvard, where he works. Shut his shit down.

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by Pat Friday, Apr. 07, 2017 at 11:16 AM

"The entire "controlled demolition" so called theory was based on a fraudulent peer review paper published in a vanity press. "

Actually the CD conspiracy theory pre-dates the Bentham paper by quite a bit. That credit goes to a radical left activist, David Rostcheck:

In an email , Rostcheck writes:


From: "D"


Sent: Tuesday, September 11, 2001 3:12 PM

Subject: WTC bombing

Ok, is it just me, or did anyone else recognize that it wasn't the airplane impacts that blew up the World Trade Center? To me, this is the most frightening part of this morning. I hope other people actually are catching this, but I haven't seen anyone say it yet, so I guess I will. I guess being an engineer may make one more conscious of these things...

If you watch the time sequence, you'll see that it happens like this:

— A plane hits tower #1, blowing a hole in it high up. The expected things then happen:

— The building stays up. A reinforced concrete building is *extremely* strong. Terrorists set off a large bomb *inside* that building without significant damage. Notice that neither plane impact does anything like break off a big hunk of building floors and send it crashing into the street. The WTC towers were specifically designed to survive a direct impact from a jumbo jet — which *both do*.

— The stories from the impact point up burn horribly. Note, fire moves upward, not downward.

— The second plane hits the second tower, lower and moving faster. It blows a bigger hole through it, showering debris on the street, but the building is clearly still standing and still looks quite solid.

— The second building begins burning, also from the impact point up.

— Perhaps a half hour later, the fire in the first building *goes out*. It is still smouldering and letting off black smoke, but there is no flame. Anyone who saw the documentary on that horrid skyscraper fire in Philadelphia that led to the codes requiring sprinklers on every floor knows why. There's no way to get fire apparatus into a skyscraper effectively, so it needs to be designed into the structure — which it is. The water flows from the roof reservoirs down. Sprinklers can kill incredible infernos, and that's what these do.

— The fire in the second building goes out.

— Then, later, the second building suddenly crumbles into dust, in a smooth wave running from the top of the building (above the burned part) down through all the stories at an equal speed. The debris falls primarily inward. The tower does not break off intact and collapse into other buildings. The bottom does not crumble before the top. The burned out section crumbles also. The crumbling comes from the top (above the damage). It moves at a uniform rate. All of the structural members are destroyed in a smooth pattern, so there is no remaining skeleton. The damage is uniform, symmetric, and total.

In summary, it looks exactly like a demolition — because that's what it is.

— The first tower collapses in a similar demolition wave.

There's no doubt that the planes hit the building and did a lot of damage. But look at the footage — those buildings were *demolished*. To demolish a building, you don't need all that much explosive but it needs to be placed in the correct places (in direct contact with the structural members) and ignited in a smooth, timed sequence. Someone had to have had a lot of access to all of both towers and a lot of time to do this.

This is pretty grim. The really dire part is — what were the planes for? If you're going to demolish the building, what's the point of the flashy display?

The way they're cutting the footage on the news now makes it look like the buildings crumbled soon after being hit by the planes, which is not true. They've also started slowing the clips from after the demolition explosion starts, so you don't see the top of the building go first — but those who taped it, go back and look at the early first-run clips.

If, in a few days, not one official has mentioned anything about the demolition part, I think we have a REALLY serious problem.


We shouldn't read too much into this. The attacks had just happened and people were trying to process it best as they could. This is just one guy in shock saying "Hey this sorta looks like those controlled demo things I see on TV!" The the conspiracy loons took up the CD idea as the best vehicle to con the public.

My guess? The Bentham Paper fraud was the latest attempt to give the CD conspiracy legitimacy. The Scholar's Group had been trying to do that for years. But all their "peer review" work could be traced in house. This was a last ditch attempt to get "real" legitimacy. Given the paper was published in 2009, EIGHT years after the attacks, and is still a flop, anyone who can't figure out "trutherism" is a fraud by now is beyond hope.

It says something that the best evidence the Truthers have is a paper, published by a discredited vanity journal, failing to prove a theory Steven Jones stole from a random guy on a usenet group.

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south america too?

by ThinKing Sunday, Apr. 30, 2017 at 4:10 AM

"A little more digging reveals statements he has made online that he grew up on U.S. Embassies in Latin America. "

does that include south america? because that would explain where he picked up his holocaust denial nazi sympathies. a lot of nazis escaped to south america and were never caught.

there's also a rumor this is his disqus account. not sure. looks like he's pretending to be a girl lol

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That's interesting....

by d.yew Friday, Mar. 09, 2018 at 6:25 AM

A recent comment from that disqus profile:

"Ah, you must be one of those people who believe freedom of speech is being denied when someone isn't given a platform from which to expound their views. "

This is sensible. But surprising this individual is taking this stance given the other links presented, particularly on the congress wayback machine page where his co-admin states:

" It's very true that the site still supports the Architects and Dr. Jones, but it had also prohibited me and others from responding to any of Jon's posts (as in, did not publish them) for a good 6 months before the banning. I would argue that this in fact IS an attempt to control dissent."

Sounds like less acceptance of site rules, and more entitlement, with a side of paranoia. Are people sure "Greta" is the same "Gretavo" that works with this chick?

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Espada might have been involved as a minor

by New Info Friday, Apr. 27, 2018 at 7:52 PM

Much information online connects Gustavo Espada aka Gretavo directly or indirectly to a RWNJ project called KOBE:

"Gustavo Espada = KOBE SBM"

"We have identified the webmaster of the KOBEHQ website. He works in the Religious Studies Department of Harvard University. "

However other sources indicate KOBE SBM is a ex-military guy called Ned Lyle:

Clearly both Ned and Espada were involved in a sewer of online hate and harassment. But Ned clearly hates Islam and Espada at least pretends to like Muslims, while claiming to hate Zionists. It's possible he changed his mind. Or cynically doesn't care one way or the other.

An ancient thread from a forum KOBE trolled heavily implies KOBE SBM is the webmaster:


19. The database is a data trap. Here is how it works. - The "NEW" Anti-kobe in town., Sat, Nov 30 2002 at 10:46 pm

- You dont know SHIT - KOBE SBM, Sun, Dec 1 2002 at 7:02 am

- RETIRED MILITARY???? AHAHAHA! The guy is a 17 year old kid! - KOBE SBM, Sun, Dec 1 2002 at 3:08 am

- Blow chunks. log files, your joking right. You are the vet being refered to. - The "NEW Anti-kobe in town, Sun, Dec 1 2002 at 3:21 am

- Not RETIRED military, ex-military. - KOBE SBM, Sun, Dec 1 2002 at 3:36 am


But a more probable connection to Espada is the stalking video made of Devoy AT HARVARD in 2003:

"here is DeVoy in his latest movie, right at Harvard Square:

Great movie clip, great music. Pop some popcorn! BWAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA! "

Espada wasn't 17 at the time, but by his own admission on conspiracy websites he lurks around the square.

If he wasn't the one making the Devoy video, Espada likely knows who did.

Another site suggest espada was screwing with anti war activists in Harvard square. But it written by a RWNJ NAzi so who knows how accurate it is or what agenda he has:

"Gustavo Espada was the webmaster of KOBE, an anti-Muslim website. Reportedly, "Gustavo Espada of KOBE infiltrated an anarchist group in Harvard Square and assisted authorities in attempting to frame Boston activists in various crimes. Pretending to be a member of the anarchist group, he took advantage of their trust to videotape them and then provide doctored photos to hate organizations for the purposes of harassment and defamation."

Whatever Bollyn's purpose is of attacking a fellow Holocaust Denier, what he's describing actually happened, and the video is still viewable on wayback(it has been saved for posterity in case someone whines to the archive mods)*/

Adding more to the mystery, once zoominfo connected Espada as a business associate of Bollyn's. This is no longer the case, though Espada's connections to various conspiracy projects can still be seen in wayback:

Perhaps Bollyn was involved with KOBE too?

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Yes, Greta = Gretavo

by A1 Thursday, May. 31, 2018 at 6:07 PM

Also "real truther", "911guy" , "Gustavo" and a bunch of other lame nyms like "deep throttle".

Lotta this stuff is new to me, but it tracks everything I know. He's an academic who thinks he's smarter than everyone else; his sidekick is a shrill fake radical who doesn't know the difference between a passion for social justice and yelling at people because they're not obeying her every wish. Now it looks like that was a ploy to bully and manipulate people?

They seem to have stopped spreading conspiracies. I'm sorry to say I was taken in. In my defense GWB did act strange about 9/11.

Other accounts they use to spread garbage:

As anyone can see, Holocaust Denial is their wheelhouse. They turned on anyone who objected to Holocaust Denial, called them agents and shills, spread lies about them with other holocaust deniers, who harassed them as government "shills".

Just like the Sandy Hook "truthers". Pure human trash.


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Not to be confused with the antivaxx debunker "TheRealTruther"

by ---- Saturday, Jul. 27, 2019 at 1:10 AM

The antivaxx/anti conspiracy debunker can be found on Twitter at:

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backfiring insults

by Aleth Saturday, Jul. 27, 2019 at 1:13 PM

To insult sandy-hook deniers as pure human trash is to be a nazi.

A democrat will respond with argument, not backfiring insult.

Ditto for official-Holocaust deniers and controlled-demolition supporters.

It´s either counterarguments, or shut up.

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Sandy Hookers are Trash

by g Thursday, Aug. 01, 2019 at 6:24 PM

"To insult sandy-hook deniers as pure human trash is to be a nazi. "

The only response Sandy Hookers need is a lawsuit-- BAM

They are trash. So are Nazis and Holocaust deniers. No one has to talk to these clowns or "debate" them.

What's wrong, Aleth? Your hero Alex Jones crying himself to sleep these days?

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by Aleth Thursday, Aug. 01, 2019 at 10:37 PM

Again : whoever supports quelling arguments with lawsuits or insult, is a nazi and a bookburner.

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by lolcow rustler Wednesday, Aug. 07, 2019 at 12:00 AM


Anyone who insults or sues Holocaust deniers and Nazis is a Nazi?

Sounds like Aleth is really lonely and has questions about the Holocaust which if not for Deep State Censorship spreading across the nets might have been answered.

Was Zyklon B used to kill Jews in death camps like Aushcwitz, he probably is wondering? Let's put his mind at ease: yes it was.

Congratulations, Aleth, you can now get a life.

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by Aleth Wednesday, Aug. 07, 2019 at 10:47 AM

The article referenced by the zionazi troll offers NO proof whatsoever that zyklon B was used for mass killings.

Tha mossad really should fire you - you are incompetent.

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Where't the link?

by g Wednesday, Aug. 07, 2019 at 8:00 PM

I thought there was a good link posted last night debunking Zyklon B.

Can't see it now.

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There it is

by g Wednesday, Aug. 07, 2019 at 9:08 PM

Site must be having problems.

Aleth must not read all that well. That wikipedia link pretty much settles it

"In early 1942, Zyklon B emerged as the preferred killing tool of Nazi Germany for use in extermination camps during the Holocaust. Around a million people were killed using this method, mostly at Auschwitz. Tesch was executed in 1946 for knowingly selling the product to the SS for use on humans. "

Nice try Aleth.

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by Aleth Wednesday, Aug. 07, 2019 at 10:17 PM

yep - if wiki bleats it, then it´s true...

nice try, mr multinick

get a job at applebee´s

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Its like an Onion Article: 11Year old thread rises from the dead, feeds trolls

by Mark Thursday, Aug. 08, 2019 at 12:28 PM

Like most Holocaust deniers Aleth/Schein/Skep has a persecution complex. He's a right wing troll spamming the wire with such hits like Anne Frank's Diary is a Hoax and the Walmart Shooting is a hoax.

Why now? He sees the writing on the wall? The FBI now sees involvement in spreading conspiracy theories as a domestic terror threats:

Maybe Aleth is trying to get LA Indy in trouble....

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by Aleth Thursday, Aug. 08, 2019 at 3:13 PM

There he goes again, mark=g=etc.etc. zionazi troll on the mossad´s payroll.

Thanx for advertizing my essays - scientific work will indeed prevail over your backfiring insults.

So either you respond with argument, and prove your anne frank authenticity and the like, or shut up and go threaten someone else .

Your ludicrous attempts at terrorizing free speech are null and void here.

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Why the interest?

by W Friday, Aug. 09, 2019 at 10:11 PM

A dead topic on a dead indy news wire. Wonder why the sudden interest?

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