Israel Admits It Fired Phosphorus Shells in Lebanon
The Israeli military has admitted for the first time that it fired phosphorus shells at Hezbollah targets during its month-long attack on Lebanon. The phosphorous shells were used despite widespread calls by human rights groups for a worldwide ban on the munitions because they cause undue suffering through severe burns. During the war there were reports that Lebanese victims had suffered serious burns from phosphorous. One doctor reported seeing three corpses entirely shriveled with black and green skin -- a phenomenon characteristic of phosphorus injuries.
http://www.democracynow.org/article.pl?sid=06/10/23/1425222

Israel Threatens to Retake Gaza-Egypt Border
Meanwhile the Israeli government is threatening to retake full control of the border between Gaza and Egypt. Israel claims weapons are being smuggled across the border. Earlier today Israeli forces shot and killed seven Palestinians in the Gaza Strip town of Beit Hunun earlier today. 20 other Palestinians were wounded. Since June, Israel has killed more than 250 Palestinians in Gaza, half of them have been civilians.

Here's a nasty picture of one of the victims of phosphorus used by the U.S. in Fallujah...

Here's a nasty picture of one of the victims of phosphorus used by the U.S. in Fallujah...
http://www.thepowerhour.com/articles/images/burnvic2.jpg

U.S. or Israeli state sponsored terror-using the phosphorus is inexcusable.

Cabinet minister Jacob Edery confirmed the bombs were dropped "against military targets in open ground".

Israel had previously said the weapons were used only to mark targets.

Phosphorus weapons cause chemical burns and the Red Cross and human rights groups say they should be treated as chemical weapons.

The Geneva Conventions ban the use of white phosphorus as an incendiary weapon against civilian populations and in air attacks against military forces in civilian areas.

You must be thinking of zinc oxide.
Otherwise you are a either cretin or just a screwed up psychopath.
"White phosphorus isn't that bad"
In that case, napalm is a fine method of flea abatement. Please try either
one on yourself 1st. PLEASE.

No one could be serious about that.

You can't defend the indefensible...

White Phosphorus on contact with any water bearing substance like human flesh will burn until the reaction is exhausted and the attempts to extinguish it, futile. It produces a poisonous by product, phosphorus pent oxide.
To say it's like being poisoned while being burnt alive is an apt description.
Another weapon of terror. A hideous and ghastly death.

This doesn't help the "Israelis are soooo sweet and gentle" propaganda.....

Except when it uses white phosphorus (the sweet and gentile kind)

I don't think I had a conversation on HIV with anyone.

I should just get over my neurosis and start posting with my name again. And so should you.

It was about the possible links between SV40 and cancer.
And if the use of live vaccines cultured in monkey kidneys contributed to the spread of other simian diseases (HIV) to humans.
Yep. That was me.
I can be civil. Ocassionally.

Alarm over radioactive legacy left by attack on Lebanon

Did Israel use a secret new uranium-based weapon in southern Lebanon this summer in the 34-day assault that cost more than 1,300 Lebanese lives, most of them civilians?

We know that the Israelis used American "bunker-buster" bombs on Hizbollah's Beirut headquarters. We know that they drenched southern Lebanon with cluster bombs in the last 72 hours of the war, leaving tens of thousands of bomblets which are still killing Lebanese civilians every week. And we now know - after it first categorically denied using such munitions - that the Israeli army also used phosphorous bombs, weapons which are supposed to be restricted under the third protocol of the Geneva Conventions, which neither Israel nor the United States have signed.

But scientific evidence gathered from at least two bomb craters in Khiam and At-Tiri, the scene of fierce fighting between Hizbollah guerrillas and Israeli troops last July and August, suggests that uranium-based munitions may now also be included in Israel's weapons inventory - and were used against targets in Lebanon. According to Dr Chris Busby, the British Scientific Secretary of the European Committee on Radiation Risk, two soil samples thrown up by Israeli heavy or guided bombs showed "elevated radiation signatures". Both have been forwarded for further examination to the Harwell laboratory in Oxfordshire for mass spectrometry - used by the Ministry of Defence - which has confirmed the concentration of uranium isotopes in the samples.

More
http://news.independent.co.uk/world/fisk/article1935945.ece

"the censorship they are whining about is to be free to flood out material they don't like with pasted propaganda - and the censorship foul crying is for that propaganda"

Except, darling, that most of the cut and paste comes from YOUR side

"so they can "re-educate" us and "make the truth available" since to them the actual truth are lies (and their lies are truth naturally)"

Lies? That Gaza is on the Mediterannean and has white sandy beaches? That suicide bombers target civilians? That Hizbollah also used cluster bombs? That Hal Turner inserted an extra paragrah into an AP article simply to demonize Israel?


"they keep re-pasting and keep switching hashes to evade the elements meant to reduce the effort and time it takes to keep the propaganda level under control"

When something is deleted unfairly- we do repost. When I see Becky's on topic, well researched well documented flame -free posts deleted, well, then I repost them. When you claim all sources writing about de-populated Ottoman Palestine are Zionist, and I show you a primary non-Zionist source and that is deleted- I repost it.

"they also stifle actual debate & discussion - both by their direct efforts above and by the responce to them"

If it weren't for us, there would be no debate or discussion here- look at SF IMC or Indybay

"we're *all stupid enough to allow ourselves to be manipulated into fighting eachother insted of focusing on the real source of the problems we all have in common*"

We've been saying this for years.
Becky Johnson is the most tireless and articulate advocate we have locally for the homeless- the most disenfranchised group in our society. I've worked on womyn's issues and environmental issues.
One of the regular Zionist contributors to this site a few months back was an elected Green party representative- she has thrown up her hands at the level of censorship and has since abandoned the site.
Last year I was cooking dinner for 50 in the Berkeley Men's shelter and I invited Matt (Toady) to help me there- I wanted him to see that you could disagree politically on many levels, yet still find common ground to work together to achieve even more fundamental goals. (What is more fundamental than feeding the hungry? Don't all the great religions of the world admonish us to "Feed the sheep"?) He didn't show up.

"zionists and anarchists should be able to work together on such issues as environment, pollution, food and so on"

I completly agree. My local action group jokes that we are "anarcho-zionist". The problem- I am more than willing to work with Nessie and Toady locally- they aren't willing to work with me. Its a unique form of discrimination, but its discrimination, none the less.

"the fact that they are insted at eachother's throats is proof positive that we're all being manipulated by *something smarter than we are*"

Or that we are insufficiently evolved. Sometimes the answer is acheived by looking inward, not outward.

"this situation with the direction IMC's are taking regarding the front page promotions - newsfeeds being "protected" and the censorship and sandboxing "features" being actively pursued as a "solution" to the "problem" of people being too dumb to think for themselves is yet another example of what the real source of the problem is"

I don't want my information censored by Big Brother at all- I don't care how benevolent Big Brother pretends to be. Censorship by government, censorship by Indymedia- two sides of the same counterfeit coin. Equally wrong.

"the way I see it is IMC makes itself irrelevant by the people who run it and the way it's set up due to the above"

There are functional IMC's- those are the ones that focus on LOCAL issues- not cut and paste from the web. There are IMC's that open their meetings to the public- and that give seminars on how to cover and how to write a news article. They educate and they inform, and they involve people. For the IMC's to truly be a viable source, they need to expand their readership as well as the active participation at their sites.

White Phosphorus

And since the zionist trolls continue to attempt to side swipe and side track this topic into some other ancillary theme; away from the terror of its use, I would remark that you may with to bitch about other related editorial themes on the now hidden thread ( wonder why it was hidden ) about this 'other' editorial discussion.
This thread:
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/02/147543.php
is about editorial practice.
The thread we are now on, here is about WP.
I can imagine why this is not a favorite topic to some. It shows the nature of the zionist entity. Cruelty and horror,

about White Phosphorus

I've seen up close and personal what it does - it's even worse than the article goes into here

it's more toxic - even a single small burn often causes death in a few days due to the systemic toxicity

there's no specific antidote either

definitely a chemical weapon meant to inflict as much death upon populations as possible - despite what the US & Israel claim about it not "technically" being so

Israel used it in Lebanon simply because we used it in Iraq

we got away with it so they knew they could get away with it...

PS good thing the only things I read ARE the hidden posts otherwise the best material would be missed

> most of the cut and paste comes from YOUR side

not in my case - I almost always am the original author of the "op-ed's" I post while the zionists specifically rely on prepared propaganda disguised as personal opinions to give an ad-lib look & feel to the astroturf agenda



> Lies?

selected straw man examples ? how about the water and the UN resolutions - those issues are simply ignored of the sources demonized




> When something is deleted unfairly- we do repost. When I see Becky's on topic, well researched well documented flame -free posts deleted, well, then I repost them. When you claim all sources writing about de-populated Ottoman Palestine are Zionist, and I show you a primary non-Zionist source and that is deleted- I repost it.


what's fair - you know who runs the show here just as well as I do - I enumerated it in the very post you've replied to here and notice *it's been hidden as well*

do I have any plans to re-post it ? no I do not - that would be SPAMMING and a dead giveaway of the real intent of simply flooding out other posts and of trying to control the show

I will relate my opinions and complaints, and offer solutions

ONCE

the pink is the proof of what they mean and where they will go

the pink is proof of what effort this scene is worth compared to my own efforts - think of it as a peek into my future website

not to trash IMC like indymediaWATCH does with a clear agenda, but to offer something better - for better people who aren't so easyly distracted, who aren't so stupid and shortsighted

people like you with your agenda are disqualified by it

people like sheepdog who are simply mental cases grinding axes are likewise

no matter how many "points" he gathers by helping the censorers censor on cue and how much he tries to kiss ass they'll NEVER allow him to become an editor due to his legacy of chemtrails/"enmod"/haarp, mind control, etc

he'll never escape that past

he's just too stupid and too busy grinding his new found censorer axe to realize that




> If it weren't for us, there would be no debate or discussion here- look at SF IMC or Indybay

well nessie is in nessie's own world isn't he

indybay - I haven't been able to find any discussion to speak of myself

it appears *they like it that way*

again it comes down to who's running the show..


in these area's we are in agreement - I think the IMC model as these people wish it to be is a failure as well - tightly controlled & edited spoon fed soft, fluffy news product completely controlled by a small group of rightous do-gooders

I've studied the inner organization structure (process) and it's really bad, it's as bad as their worst enemies accuse them of being - a shielded from reality group of mostly white college students from mainly middle class who are completely out of touch with working people who have the real power in numbers and taxes

they play at being activists to feel good about themselves for "doing something" when they actualy ignore and marginalize the very people who could affect change and so are nothing more than cogs in the wheel - part of the system that keeps everything the way the power elite want's it

TW and me are in complete agreement on this, it appears some of you are likewise in at least some ways..

I suspect the true number of people who feel this way are far about what these gatekeepers think -they tend to think of themselves as the center of the social activist universe when in fact they are who really matter the least

they simply have the limelight and domains and some money to throw at keeping on top of the struggle pyramid.

What I wonder is how many of them are willing to place actual revolution ahead of their position as activist

things like driving to protests, yelling & screaming, then driving back to their comfortible middle-class lifestyles feeling that they are accomplishing something, then making sure the pictures *always* make the front page and the newsfeed, while hiding and sandboxing anyone else not part of this group, ignoring e-mails and questions, ignoring you in chat, and saying behind your back while never having the balls to face you that your "devisive" and writing it off at that...

just part of the system of oppression as far as I'm concerned..

and this has been going on since day one too - since IMC started ~ 6 years ago

it's an elite private club and we're not invited - it's their show and they intend to keep it that way




> for the homeless

the Palestinian refugees are homeless - where's her concern for THEM ?





> There are IMC's that open their meetings to the public- and that give seminars on how to cover and how to write a news article. They educate and they inform, and they involve people. For the IMC's to truly be a viable source, they need to expand their readership as well as the active participation at their sites.


yes a few are moving in the right direction, it's just sad to see that most aren't and that the situation overall is getting worse for the IMC network as a whole


again when you look at the process details you see why

there's way too many people who took management classes then attempt to apply this to process and then there's "too many cooks in the kitchen" ass pulling in different directions at the same time.. WAY too much organising and micro-managing going on with far too little actual physical effort

they give themselves far too much credit for knowing what's best for everyone else and far too little thought at the *cost to benefit ratio*


a specific example are the few micro-power stations

they spend huge amounts of money for a tiny signal that reaches very few people and are proud of this while ignoring other people & methods simply because they aren't in the group

the only exceptions are *other groups*

everything is in the context of group thinking, hive minds, collectives

outside of this it's a wasteland - they act like nothing exists, like nothing matters unless it's a group - their group - doing it

Well thanks, Whizz; but this thread is not about me or your opinion of me.
[ I feel so special ]
It's about the use of hideous weapons like White Phosphorus and the use thereof by terrorist.
Not to say that your effort to side track this subject to other silly issues should be taken seriously.
Like I've said before, This is a very sensitive topic as I'm sure your team knows and that this HURTS the zionist facade of victimhood.

look at it this way


if you make a thread to discuss these issues the thread is hidden


if you comment in other threads that's off-topic

- and is hidden

___in any case it's hidden___

there IS no place to discuss these issues

they *used to say* send an e-mail to the editors with such concerns

1.) there are no publicly accessable e-mail addresses - they are "hidden" and only accessable to MEMBERS of the collectives (I've checked)

2.) the single public e-mail is IGNORED


3.) pop in IRC and you are likewise IGNORED and watch as the collective members are auto-op'ed to a secret voice level above the public level where they carry on chat that you can't see

you can sit there in the channel for hours - no DAYS and never see any chat to speak of yet nearly 100 people are in the channel all +o except you

been there - done that

White Phosphrous is not a chat issue, Whizz.
But since you feel a COMPULSION to comment on my posts with OTHER ISSUES, don't you feel kinda silly when your busy fingers SIMPLY MUST post off topic items?
Can't you find an on topic comment about the various OTHER transgressions of humanity perpetrated by 'israel' in the theme of this thread?
Apparently you find it difficult to stay within your role as 'the Whizz' when it comes to a real analysis of this horrible weapon and others used to inflict horror upon 'israel's' victim targets.
Why else would you attempt to bait and sidetrack...
using double, triple and quadruple spacing, no less
Try not typing off-topic themes as a kind of diarrhea of your own compulsion if you can't offer cogent input to the topic. Which in this case is the typical horror 'israel' visits on their victims in the form of hideous terror weapons akin to their cruel use of WP.

> most of the cut and paste comes from YOUR side

not in my case - I almost always am the original author of the "op-ed's" I post while the zionists specifically rely on prepared propaganda disguised as personal opinions to give an ad-lib look & feel to the astroturf agenda

Most of us used to write our own responses- as the censorship grew more draconian, a few of us decided it wasn't worth the time and effort. I'd also prefer going back to original material

> Lies?

selected straw man examples ? how about the water and the UN resolutions - those issues are simply ignored of the sources demonized

We did respond to the water issues. Our responses were deleted. If we continue going as we are- the entire earth will deplete its available resources by 2050. The water issues are a major problem worldwide- not just in Israel. And the UN is a joke. To me, citing the UN as authority is like citing Mississipi Surreme Court decisons from the 1930's- garbage in, garbage out.


people like you with your agenda are disqualified by it

My agenda? All you know about me is my view on one particular area.

well nessie is in nessie's own world isn't he

And he is welcome to it.

indybay - I haven't been able to find any discussion to speak of myself

They delete everything and there is no way to access what is hidden.

What I wonder is how many of them are willing to place actual revolution ahead of their position as activist

things like driving to protests, yelling & screaming, then driving back to their comfortible middle-class lifestyles feeling that they are accomplishing something

At one of the last rallys, a hummer drove by with a Palestinian flag flying out the window. I'm sure they'd didn't have a clue what kind of message they were sending.

it's an elite private club and we're not invited - it's their show and they intend to keep it that way

what is the point in just dialoging with people you agree with?

for the homeless

the Palestinian refugees are homeless - where's her concern for THEM ?

Ask her.

If you make a point once, and it is hidden, so what? if it is part of the "debate" (that which you purport to want to engage in), then there is no need to repost it, as those who are debating are all aware of how to look at hidden comments. Unless you aren't really trying to debate/discuss, but are trying to propagandize?? (Hmmm, which is it Becky, Tia, Yid?)
That is the real question. Can't have it both ways.
Also, just to address this quote, Tia, "Last year I was cooking dinner for 50 in the Berkeley Men's shelter and I invited Matt (Toady) to help me there- I wanted him to see that you could disagree politically on many levels, yet still find common ground to work together to achieve even more fundamental goals. (What is more fundamental than feeding the hungry? Don't all the great religions of the world admonish us to "Feed the sheep"?) He didn't show up."

When you invite me to do something I already do, esp. on short notice with my schedule, it is not surprising that I wouldn't show up. I work f/t (at my work, I bring food and feed the poor daily), go to school at night and on weekends, have regular labor/union and antidrug war activist commitments-plus other sporadic work related guest lectures/trainings that I do, etc., in a addition to a dying father and a family to juggle. Plus, to top that off, why would I give up my anonymity here, as someone with a high proile in the coummunity, to put myself at risk for being smeared by a nutcase like Yid (or spied on, harassed, etc.)
Unrealistic of you to expect.
Peace.

-On July 24, Human Rights Watch reported that Israel was using cluster bombs "in populated areas of Lebanon," which it said "may violate the prohibition on indiscriminate attacks contained in international humanitarian law." But despite the extensive media coverage of the current conflict in the Middle East, almost no U.S. outlets are reporting on these findings.

The Los Angeles Times buried the news at the end of a July 25 report, which concluded that the "Israeli army said it was checking into the group's allegations, but added that the weapons were legal under international standards." On July 27, the New York Times reported that an Israeli general "acknowledged that Israel had used cluster munitions in the conflict." The Times described the alleged use of such weapons as "another matter that has drawn criticism."

Yet this reference was the first time the paper's readers heard of the matter—at least when it came to Israel's arsenal. On July 19, the Times did report that U.S. and Israeli officials claimed that Hezbollah had altered some of their rockets by "attaching cluster bombs as warheads, or filling an explosive shell with ball bearings that have devastating effect."

[And they call the Times 'liberal'.]

-Other reports have raised the strong possibility that cluster bombs may have been used in Gaza (Agence France Presse, 7/25/06). And some doctors and Lebanese officials believe that injuries in Lebanon indicate the use of incendiary weapons such as white phosphorus (Inter Press Service, 7/28/06; Agence France Presse, 7/30/06). White phosphorus causes severe and deep burns to the skin and cannot be extinguished with water; the New York Times once called it (3/22/95) one of "the worst chemical weapons" in existence. Israel's use of such weapons would not be without precedent; Human Rights Watch reported in 1996 (5/96) that there was "compelling" evidence that Israel used phosphorus weapons against civilians in its 1982 and 1983 attacks on Southern Lebanon. (The U.S. has admitted to use-

> Unless you aren't really trying to debate/discuss, but are trying to propagandize

yes that's exactly my position - I'll say what I have to say and that's it..

there's no need to re-post unless the real intention is to flood/spam




Re: homeless Palestinian refugees and "asking" her about her concern over them


she has no concern for them - all we get are the standard propaganda pastes that they aren't really Palestinians, don't really have a home, etc

funny how you're prepared to fill in for her but when the points become uncomfortible you abandon the issue


re: the elite private exclusionary do-gooder club

> what is the point in just dialoging with people you agree with?


to share that good feeling, to self-affirm and cross-affirm all the good it's doing (that circle jerk)

what else ?



re: paranoia

it can be used for an excuse for anything

paranoia-for-all-occasions

to exclude, to ignore, to stay within a small tight group, to demonize anyone or anything at anytime

the real question isn't what a person has to be afraid of - it's how they deal with that fear and how much they allow fear to run their life

when your whole lifestyle revolves around fear and using fear as an excuse, a shield, a crutch, fear becomes a part of your personality, your way of life

fear infects your mind and turns you into a different sort of person

after awhile you get so used to being and living that way it changes your values - you come to accept the crutch as normal and have trouble standing without it


I used to be a bit like that so I analysed my lifestyle and goals and *made changes to them to abate the source of the problem* - part of which was *in my own mind* (internal not external, not status or standing)

using status or standing as a justification is simply externalizing it to avoid looking internally at the true heart of the problem

your environment is a reflection of your state of mind...

just fess up and admit you are a *fearful person* and have wrapped your lifestyle around your personality - not the other way around

(I could hold claim to more excuses than those, operating a pirate station *among other things* for example, but I've learned to _let go of the fear_ that lies at the heart of the paranoid mind)

some self-examination would go a long way in re-evaluating what part you wish fear to play in your life

fear, agenda's and propaganda pasters
by hex Sunday, Oct. 29, 2006 at 10:37 AM


> Unless you aren't really trying to debate/discuss, but are trying to propagandize

yes that's exactly my position - I'll say what I have to say and that's it..

1. Not everyone who reads here is a regular- they may not know about hidden posts.
2. Hidden posts don't appear on the search engines- if people are using the site for research, they miss half the story.

That being said, I'll concede your point and won't re-publish anything that has already been hidden.



Re: homeless Palestinian refugees and "asking" her about her concern over them


she has no concern for them - all we get are the standard propaganda pastes that they aren't really Palestinians, don't really have a home, etc

Homeless and stateless are two different issues...And you are absolutely wrong. I've met her and she is completely genuine.


funny how you're prepared to fill in for her but when the points become uncomfortible you abandon the issue

I don't fill in for her- I couldn't- she writes much better than I ever could.

re: fear and paranoia: I had a few recent experiences (being followed and threatened) that made me realize there were some scary folk out there, and that I shouldn't go out of my way to draw attention to myself.

I used to be a bit like that so I analysed my lifestyle and goals and *made changes to them to abate the source of the problem* - part of which was *in my own mind* (internal not external, not status or standing)

your environment is a reflection of your state of mind...

Well, someone said to me on Market Street. "Yes. You are being followed. Why don't you call the police?" At that point, state of mind becomes irrelevant. And as much as I hate to pull gender on you, being female in an urban area makes me a helluva lot more vulnerable that being male in a rural area.

just fess up and admit you are a *fearful person* and have wrapped your lifestyle around your personality - not the other way around

The whole world is a narrow bridge- the important thing is not to be afraid. No one gets to call me a fearful person. I'm not. I've never hidden in committes or executive action groups- I've always been a "boots on the ground " type. But the people I live with are innocents- i don't want one of them to get hit in the head with a piece of re-bar because someone is angry at me. I can handle almost anything on the streets- I just don't want it following me home in the middle of the night with a can of gasoline.


some self-examination would go a long way in re-evaluating what part you wish fear to play in your life

From "Jack a roe"

"Your waist is light and slender, your fingers neat and small,
Your cheeks too red and rosy for to face the cannonball,
Oh, to face the cannonball."

"I know my waist is slender and my fingers they are small,
But they would not make me tremble for to see ten thousand fall,
Oh, to see ten thousand fall"

Hey, I got an idea. Let's discuss the fear of WP in the israeli terror 'state'.How would you like to have a WP munition go off while you're walking down to protest something or other and have your day simply RUINED when one of these bastards go off and you start to burn with a poisonous unquenchable agony?
That would be fear.

Hidden posts don't appear on the search engines

that can be a blessing as well :)



> Homeless and stateless are two different issues

explain that to a person living out on the street - here or in the OCCUPIED lands - I'm sure they'll understand


Re: paranoia

those comments were directed to the person I suspect brought the subject up

but as far as gender goes very few people actually physically fight attackers/muggers with their bare fists - most use a weapon of some sort, be it mace or a cellphone, etc..

so statisticly the chances that your gender will have any bearing on the outcome is small - despite what party line or PC rhetoric you may have swallowed claims

as a bicyclist riding in such dangerous areas as the ironbound section of Newark, NJ and other places I can say being a man doesn't offer much in the way of safety - it's more a question of time spent, and what specific trouble spots you spend it in

but please feel free to indulge in fear mongering as much as you think you need to :)

we've said it's toxic, it burns in contact with water, the smoke and ash are highly toxic, which become a strong acid in contact with water, that the US got away with using it in Iraq, that Israel did likewise because of it..

WP is nothing new - it's been around since WWI, strike anywhere matches used to contain it, the factory workers used to be poisoned by injesting tiny amounts of it and causing their jawbones to rot away

I have pictures of these..

what more needs to be said ?

And imagine that while riding your bike to see your mom, one of these bastards go off and you INHALE some of the smoke.
No one should die like this as their lungs are turned into scalding poison while they wish that it was only pepper spray or mace instead of an agonizing horrible, death.

Phosphorus pentoxide

I *have* inhaled it - you do too when you light a match

(regular matches contain *red* phosphorus - both types make pentoxide when they burn)


it doesn't hurt you unless you inhale a lot of it...

the smoke is very thick so there would have to be so much you couldn't see where you're going to even start to hurt you

the situation you outlined above is unrealistic

Homelessness in Gaza and the West Bank- I can't find any statistics anywhere. What makes you think this is a major issue?

they refer to them as refugees and displaced persons, mostly living in tents, as most of the homeless here live in makeshift shelters like boxes, etc

when you consider the total population and land mass, it's quite a severe problem compared to here

'Cause I was also wondering what happened to the victims who's homes were bulldozed.
Here's some stuff and I'm encouraged that you care enough to ask:
http://rafah.virtualactivism.net/details/homeless.htm
Here's something about a Gaza raid that leaves hundreds homeless:
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/Other%20Updates/gaza_raid_leaves_100s_homless.htm
Also, something on refugees at the bottom of this page:
http://www.palestinemonitor.org/factsheet/factsheet.html
More:
http://palestineblogs.com/archives/2005/10/19/bulldozing-the-chance-for-peace/
More on homelessness in Palestine:
http://www.palestinereport.org/art.php?article=130
Here's something about an Israeli incursion leaving 1,240 homeless in 2003:
http://wwww.reliefweb.int/rw/rwb.nsf/AllDocsByUNID/7b1e364c823256e985256dbe006cd61e
Powerful pics, including homeless Palestinian baby:
http://www.thewe.cc/contents/more/archive/circus.html

The list goes on and on, I wonder how come you couldn't find anything?

An unbelievably great article re: media hypocrisy and the right of return:
http://www.mediamonitors.net/leonard6.html

I am looking for stats that we can compare with similar countries- 10 % of the population? 12% of the population?
Not "hundreds left homeless".
Concepts of homelessness are also different in countries where 3 generations live under one roof.

"they refer to them as refugees and displaced persons, mostly living in tents, as most of the homeless here live in makeshift shelters like boxes, etc"

Show me current photos of Gazans living in tents. As far as I know this hasn't been an issue for 50 years.

This is a photo of Gaza City. Is it what you expected?

I almost could have written your response on this one.
Basically, and predictably, the response is: "They don't count and/or their homelessness is somehow acceptable, because, 1. It is their fault, or 2. it's somehow OK, culturally, for them to live in sub-human conditions...
This is denial and bigotry.
Free Palestine.

how many stories has Becky done on the homeless in Palestine ?


really ? that many :)

Multiple pictures of homeless Palestinians, all since 2000.
I'm sure it was their fault, though.
If they'd only pull themselves up by their bootstraps!

Find me a statistical chart. Are there more homeless than in Israel? Are there more homeless than in Chile? In Mexico? In America? (per capita of course)
Anecdotes don't help.
Are there more homeless on Market street in san Francisco than in Gaza City? I wouldn't be suprised.
Why doesn't Becky write an article on homelessness in Gaza? Ask her.
But I'll ask you this: What do you think would happen to Becky if she showed up in Gaza?

Anyhow, you can ignore the realities by requesting difficult to find stats to "compare"
Do you count living in a refugee camp as homeless?
I'm sure you don't, then you'd have to make an admission, but here:
General stats:
http://www.pchrgaza.org/Intifada/General_Stat.htm

With these poverty stats:
http://www.pchrgaza.org/Intifada/Closures_stat.htm

and just these forced home/business demolitions/attacks:
http://www.pchrgaza.org/Intifada/House_demolitions_stat.htm

Luckily, families and friends will take ea other in--in many cases. Sleeping outdoors is not a measure of homelessness...
#

The Gaza strip has 8 refugee camps housing some 400.000 people which is about half the refugee population in the strip. The camps in Gaza are amongst the most densely populated areas in the world (in average there are 356.5 m2 per inhabitant in Gaza. In comparison every inhabitant in Ramallah has 3,978.1 m2, Jerusalem: 1,029.4 m2, Nablus: 3,244.3 m2, Jenin: 2,846.8 m2).
#

The biggest and most densely populated Palestinian refugee camp in the world is Jabaliya in the outskirts of Gaza City. 90.000 people live in an area of 3 km2.

Palm trees don't make it paradise honey.

Notice the slight bit of smoke. Like a match. Not that bad,
He's not just kidding you is he?

Everytime she is revealed she goes silent.
Then Tia will come in later and talk about what a great "journalist" she is...LMFAO!

the smoke from burning phosphorus whether white or red is the same, but *white* phosphorus is dangerous

that's what I said - nothing more or less, a bit of the smoke will not hurt you - people light *whole books of matches in enclosed spaces* for kicks and no one drops dead from it..

you're confusing the smoke with the actual element - there's a BIG difference between the two..

they teach this in grade school science and chemistry class...

when you concocted the horror story about the smoke causing an agonizing horrible death obviously you didn't know this - that common matches give off this smoke too

the smoke becomes phosphoric acid - like in Coca Cola..

> Everytime she is revealed she goes silent.

I was thinking that earlier - how they scatter like roaches, that truth and statistics are like bug spray to them :)

or steam
(we've been using steam insted of bug spray - works great)

http://sill-www.army.mil/famag/Previous_Editions/01/MAY-JUN01.pdf
-Incendiaries, which include napalm, flame throwers, tracer rounds and white phosphorus, are not illegal, per se, but must be monitored for their use to prevent “unnecessary suffering.” For instance white phosphorus is not banned as a method for marking targets or for igniting flammable targets, but it should not be used as an anti-personnel munition unless other types of conventional anti-personnel ordnance are unavailable.-

We have jobs, you know. And obligations. Phones to wire-tap, cornflakes to infest.
Living in a refugee camp does not make you homeless. The word refugee camp is simply propanganda meant to evoke feelings of pity, just the same way the word settlement is meant to evoke feelings of impropriety and lawlessness.

Jabaliya is a town with schools, social services, community centers, and homes. Its not a very nice place, but its no tent city.


Photo of the Jabaliya pre-school

I guess when they are sub-human, they don't deserve human conditions anyway, right Tia? I mean, hey? they did this to themselves, why don't they just pull themselves up by the bootstraps, right?
The Gaza strip has 8 refugee camps housing some 400.000 people which is about half the refugee population in the strip. The camps in Gaza are amongst the most densely populated areas in the world (in average there are 356.5 m2 per inhabitant in Gaza. In comparison every inhabitant in Ramallah has 3,978.1 m2, Jerusalem: 1,029.4 m2, Nablus: 3,244.3 m2, Jenin: 2,846.8 m2).

They aren't homeless. They aren't living in tents. They are living in a town with schools, social services, clinics and roads. And yes, they are shitty little towns, but they are towns none the less. Thats my point. The other words are yours and yours alone.

Heres a real refugee camp of Darfurians , located in Chad. See the difference?

Advise to soldiers:
Incandescent particles of WP may produce extensive burns. Phosphorus burns on the skin are deep and painful; a firm eschar is produced and is surrounded by vesiculation. The burns usually are multiple, deep, and variable in size. The solid in the eye produces severe injury. The particles continue to burn unless deprived of atmospheric oxygen. Contact with these particles can cause local burns. These weapons are particularly nasty because white phosphorus continues to burn until it disappears. If service members are hit by pieces of white phosphorus, it could burn right down to the bone. Burns usually are limited to areas of exposed skin (upper extremities, face). Burns frequently are second and third degree because of the rapid ignition and highly lipophilic properties of white phosphorus.

If burning particles of WP strike and stick to the clothing, take off the contaminated clothing quickly before the WP burns through to the skin. Remove quickly all clothing affected by phosphorus to prevent phosphorus burning through to skin. If this is impossible, plunge skin or clothing affected by phosphorus in cold water or moisten strongly to extinguish or prevent fire. Then immediately remove affected clothing and rinse affected skin areas with cold sodium bicarbonate solution or with cold water. Moisten skin and remove visible phosphorus (preferably under water) with squared object (knife-back etc.) or tweezers. Do not touch phosphorus with fingers! Throw removed phosphorus or clothing affected by phosphorus into water or allow to bum in suitable location. Cover phosphorus burns with moist dressing and keep moist to prevent renewed inflammation. It is neccessary to dress white phosphorus-injured patients with saline-soaked dressings to prevent reignition of the phosphorus by contact with the air.

http://www.globalsecurity.org/ military/ systems/ munitions/ wp.htm

but the smoke isn't

almost makes you forget someone who claimed it was - out of complete ignorance of even basic science and chemistry

I think sheepdog should become the science editor

he'd do a great job :)

hand him a coke

Oh yeah, so you can find a situation that is worse, therefore, it makes the plight of the people confined in refugee camps in Palestine somehow OK?
Not.
I gave you some powerful stats, maybe not the ones that you wanted to play the comparison game, but devastating stats nonetheless. The real question, Tia, is would you be so desperately trying to point the finger away from Israel if this was happening anywhere else? (this is an internal question and I'm really not asking for an answer--out loud)

The conditions are uncceptable. Should they just pull themselves up by their bottstraps? Is it their fault, therefore they deserve it? These are questions I'd like an answer to, if you would.
Peace

You like the smell then?
Here's what will do as an experiment.
Let us simulate exposure. At varying concentrations for metrics in a battlefield environment.
Do this.
[ This may be DANGEROUS to your health, so please follow instructions. ]
To simulate effects similar to civilians hiding in enclosed gut not air tight spaces, put up a tent and get inside. Now start lighting matches.
I would guess you'd leave after five.
Is this what you mean by up close and personal? I'm curious because I have been up close and personal w/the 81mm round. It's still available in most Armories, unless, I'm wrong. along with the Browning 50.
I guess the point I'm trying to make is that it produces heavy quantities of corrosive smoke and you don't want to be trapped into it.
I'm sorry it isn't poisonous enough for you.

I've played with white phosphorus in the lab

did I forget to mention that ?

sodium and lithium as well

I've smelled phosgene gas too...

don't ask me how

My point, Matt, is that the language you have been fed and that you parrot is meant to specifically to demonize Israel and to create a mood implying trhe victimization of the Palestinians. If you live somewhere for 60 years, you raise families, you go to work, your kids go to school- why is that a refugee camp? Why isn't that home?

"IMPLYING the victimization of palestinians"??? Like Zionist's 60 year occupation changes that fact. ohhh, because Zionists are murderous thieves of palestinian lands, SOME people will see that fact as a reason to APPEASE Zionism RATHER THAN a reason to liberate the Palestinian VICITIMS (and ZIonist occupation shows a damned sight MORE THAN an implication, as you would have the braindead belive).

Yep, that is the ONLY reason Zionists can come up with. Zionists ARE murderous thieves of palestinian lands, so obviously, appeasment and even support of democraps and republitrash is called for.

Well Mr. PrionParty, why do I think you might actually be Palestinian? It isn't just the lies you tell- its the obsessive way you tell them.

So can YOU show us photos of Palestinians living in tents? From this century of course. And can you explain why towns with schools, clinics, and homes are called "camps"?

What's this supposed to mean, "why do I think you might actually be Palestinian? It isn't just the lies you tell- its the obsessive way you tell them"

Wow. it slipped, huh.

Yeah- that wasn't very nice. I'll retract it.

Bump to highlight white phosphorus and white supremism

It is estimated that Israeli bombings of Lebanon left more than a million unexploded cluster bombs and anti-personnel weapons. Few lie around in Yasmine's garden. Yasmine is 11 years old, from a small village in the south of Lebanon and a good tour guide around her family's garden as she shows you the remaining unexploded cluster bombs. Two to give a count -- one is hiding high in the grape vine and the other next to a little rock. They look nonthreatening, just little odd metal canisters calling to be removed. But Yasmine is good at protecting you. She firmly asks you not to touch them nor get close to them, only to laugh later as she teases you that you can never know when the one on the grape vine would fall, "so you'd better be ready to run". She says, "sometimes brown vine leaves fall and we would run thinking it is the bomb ... it is very scary. But after we run and hide and notice it is just a vine leave we laugh a lot. Only God knows when will it fall. I hope it falls when we are out on a visit, this way it will explode and we will get rid of it without getting hurt."

Everybody speaks of the cluster bombs in the south. Ask anyone and you will get stories of where they were found, or how someone died or got amputated as a result of one. A daily fear that we are living with these days turned into a nightmare with the begining of the rain season - rainwater covering the bomblets with mud. Rain can smoothly push some bombs under rocks, can pat the grass on top of others and even bury it totally with mud. The rain started, and so did the nightmare. It is you and your luck with your life in your hand for years to come. So walk, move, touch and look carefully ... it can be anywhere, and one tiny mistake is fatal.

The summer is towards its end and many harvests are getting due while some already are. These harvests of olive, tobacco, wheat or fruits that supply the farmer with a considerable annual income are being wasted to rot. Fields are feared to have cluster bombs, and many do. People are kept away from their gardens and the look on their faces helplessly watching their crops wither and rot in is unforgettable. "There isn't a bigger crime. Haram [it's a shame]. Everything is rotting and we cannot harvest it," Abu-Ahmad tells me as he sits on his balcony smoking his water-pipe and watching his field. "We are done away with for the year to come as well, it is running late to plant the winter crop. It is a disaster, how will we manage through winter? and even after that. All we can do is sit and watch it all die and our land go bare." The agricultural communities in the south suffered serious blows and devastating damage for the infrastructure, machinery and harvest. Those with cluster bombs in their fields are expected to still be suffering economically the year to come even if the bombs were totally removed. The winter harvest will not see the light; there is no way of seeding or planting with cluster bombs all over.

Over a hundred civilian casualties since the cease-fire thanks to the unexploded cluster bomblets. According to Handicap International, an estimated three civilians daily fall victims to unexploded clusters -- a nightmare that is not exclusively Lebanese. Lebanon is not the first terrain where cluster bombs were used; they have been used in Vietnam, Afghanistan, Iraq, Western Sahara, Kosovo, Sierra Leon, Chechnya, Cambodia ... and the list goes on. It is estimated that around 300 people still die in Vietnam each year as a result of cluster bombs and other US army leftovers. It is likely that a child who was not born at the time of the bombing would die from a still-unexploded cluster bomb. Israel has been using cluster bombs in Lebanon since 1978 and people continue to suffer from them till today. Only now we have few hundred thousand more to watch out from, or simply blow us to pieces.

A Lebanese child plays with a cluster bomb ribbon (MACCSL)

"Popcorn"

"Popcorn" is the US military slang name for cluster bombs. An apt yet brutal parody. The basic design of cluster bombs is a hollow shell hosting hundreds of "small bomblets" varying according to model and design. These little bomblets are scattered over with a possible affected area getting as wide as three football fields. Cluster bombs are known to have a high rate of leaving unexploded bombs behind - still they are in use. Absurdly enough, some manufacturers of these bombs decided to give them bright colors in an alleged attempt to undermine their risk by making the leftovers more visible to civilians. Not surprisingly, it turns out that the newly introduced bright colors are only worsening the situation because they are attractive children. A nightmare well-known to Afghani and Vietnamese children to name a few, let alone to the governments of the world. Still, cluster bombs are among the "legitimate" weapons.

Israel admitted dumping more than 1,800 cluster bombs over Lebanon carrying more than 1.2 million bomblets - noting that Israel, like any state, plays down the number of bombs it uses. Still, 1.2 million bomblets are hellish enough. According to United Nations estimates, 40 percent of the cluster bombs thrown by Israel during the recent war on Lebanon are unexploded -- you do the calculation. Jan Egeland, UN undersecretary-general for Humanitarian Affairs and Emergency Relief Coordinator, stated that "what's shocking and I would say completely immoral is that 90 percent of the cluster bomb strikes occurred in the last 72 hours of the conflict when we knew there would be a resolution, when we knew there would be an end." An Israeli reservist quoted in the Israeli newspaper Haaretz on the 8th of September 2006 said, "In the last 72 hours we fired all the munitions we had, all at the same spot, we didn't even alter the direction of the gun. Friends of mine in the battalion told me they also fired everything in the last three days - ordinary shells, clusters, whatever they had."

International bodies such as the Red Cross and Human Rights Watch have serious criticism and opposition to the usage of these bombs. Handicap International embarked in 2005 on an international campaign to ban these weapons, yet Belgium is the only state that has banned cluster bombs.

Recently Human Rights Watch issued concern over Hezbollah's usage of cluster bombs for the first time during the recent Israeli war on Lebanon. It is stupid to use this as a justification for Israeli crimes. The spread of these bombs is rather another case for supporting a world ban on them, and holding all users accountable.

The alarm is urgently sounding in Lebanon; it has been for a long time. Many organizations are working on clearing cluster bombs in the south of Lebanon, and dealing with the consequences. This is not the solution as no one can guarantee total cleaning of the bombs. Banning them is a step towards one, and definitely holding those who use them accountable, not only of the crimes committed, but also of cleaning them and dealing with the consequences.

People suffering from amputations and life losses as a result of unexploded cluster bombs cannot recuperate what they lost. Who would deal with this? Their families and their loved ones, let alone them themselves. War does not end in their lives, it lives on while the rest of the world prepares for another war, another cluster.


# Visit Qursana for updates about a national day against cluster bombs in Lebanon to be held Saturday November 4th


Imad Mortada is a Lebanese anarchist queer activist and Indymedia volunteer based in Barcelona.
http://electronicintifada.net/v2/article5909.shtml

> there's certainly no indication it was used on actual humans.



Israel Using White Phosphorus On Lebanese Civilians

In one CNN report, a casualty with serious burns was seen lying in a South Lebanon hospital.


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld6cOJqyPqY

(video of the phosphorus bombing and footage of the VICTIMS with phosphorus burns - 1/3'rd of them dying)

There have been numerous reports that Israeli phosphorus munitions injured and killed civilians in Lebanon.

Israeli phosphorus munitions used against civilian targets

http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/777560.html


During the war several foreign media outlets reported that Lebanese civilians carried injuries characteristic of attacks with phosphorus, a substance that burns when it comes to contact with air.


In another case, Dr. Hussein Hamud al-Shel, who works at Dar al-Amal hospital in Ba'albek, said that he had received three corpses "entirely shriveled with black-green skin," a phenomenon characteristic of phosphorus injuries.

Lebanon's President Emile Lahoud also claimed that the IDF made use of phosphorus munitions against civilians in Lebanon.

they sure look human to me

I wonder what fresca's response would be if this was her

That's funny, I haven't seen this pics in the mainstream media...I wonder why that is?
There may be an answer here:
www.ifamericansknew.org

Israel utilized white phosphorus in its bombardments of Lebanon

BAALBEK, LEBANON, (August 27).—At least three corpses with clear signs of having been attacked with white phosphorus, a chemical weapon banned for use against human beings, were taken to a hospital in the Lebanese city of Baalbek during the war, according to medical sources.

The EFE agency reports that Hussein Mahmoud el Chel, chief of Emergencies in the Dar el Amal Hospital, confirmed that the state of those corpses – with no external wounds, totally contracted and with a greenish-black skin – displayed all the characteristics of an attack with this type of substance. Dr. Mahmoud explained that the victims transferred to the hospital came from the town of Brital, like Baalbek, situated in the eastern Beka Valley.

fresca: child-on-child hate ? Lebanese phosphorus bombs ?


Robin: have any citations to back that up ? just wishful thinking ?
where's the word OCCUPIED at ? where's YOUR honor at too ?

"Honor killings account for virtually all of the murders of Palestinian women in these areas"

WOMEN - most of the killings in the OCUPPIED TERRITORIES are not Women

you've substituted the issue for one that you can better defend -

A STRAWMAN ARGUMENT


AND lied about it as well -



(worldandi.com = the Washington Times Corporation BTW)


122 Israeli children have been killed by Palestinians and 791 Palestinian children have been killed by Israelis since September 29, 2000.

1,084 Israelis and 4,266 Palestinians have been killed since September 29, 2000

7,633 Israelis and 30,771 Palestinians have been injured since September 29, 2000


Total Number of Palestinian deaths - 4570

Children - 943

Women - 281

Men - 3346

and this claim -
"Palestinians are directly responsible for the deaths of at least 253 of their
own number." (this is where the 50 % figure comes from - fails to mention the much larger time period AND Women only due to it being a cultural difference, NOT due to OCCUPATION AND MILITARY AGGRESSION)



Palestinians killed by Jewish settlers - 72
Palestinians killed as a result of Israeli shelling - 837
Deaths as a result of medical prevention at Isreali checkpoints - 117
Of them stillbirths (born dead at checkpoints) - 31

Number of Palestinians extra-judicially assassinated - 582
Of them bystanders killed during extra-judicial operations - 257


more bystanders (innocent people) have been killed during ILLEGAL ISRAELI ASSASSINATIONS than honor killings even just since '2000



Number of Palestinians permanently disabled or maimed by injuries : 3530

Educational Statistics :

School Students

killed - 576
Injured - 3471
Detained - 669

University Students

Killed - 199
Injured - 1245
Detained - 720

Teachers

killed - 32
Injured - 54
Detaind - 176

Destruction of Palestinian Property (dunum = 1000 m² )

Confiscated land : 250376.9
Razed land: 74843
Estimated number of uprooted trees : 1187762
Homes demolished : 7779







The U.S. gives $15,139,178 per day to the Israeli government and military and $232,290 per day to Palestinian NGO’s.


UN resolutions ;

Israel

65

Palestinians

0


Israeli refugees ?
Palestinian BULLDOZERS ?


oh look - I've make it personal - I couldn't help myself :)

that's less than 1/20'th of the total deaths

you're ignoring that people are being KILLED BY ISRAELIS at 20 times that figure by the careful FRAMING of the word murder so that it *only applies to the Palestinians*

I just posted the statistics which cover everyone and the true scope of the genoside, including settlers killing them, soldiers killing them, checkpoint deaths by denial of movement ON THEIR OWN LAND, the ILLEGAL ISRAELI assassinations WHICH OUTNUMBER MORE THAN TWICE OVER and even the innocent bystanders which also outnumber them.

You wish to focus on a hot button emotional cultural issue to distract from this.

straw man - no - straw Woman :)

Deadly Distortion


Associated Press coverage of the Israeli-Palestinian conflict significantly distorts reality, essentially over-reporting the number of Israelis killed in the conflict and underreporting the number of Palestinians killed.



Israeli children’s deaths were covered at a rate 7.5 times greater than Palestinian children’s deaths.





Political Prisoners and Detainees



1 Israeli is being held prisoner by Palestinians

9,599 Palestinians are currently imprisoned by Israel.

over 4,500 without trial




0 Israeli homes have been demolished by Palestinians

4,170 Palestinian homes have been demolished by Israel since September 29, 2000.








Several pertinent subject areas had been minimally covered by AP. For example:

Palestinian prisoners.

Torture in Israeli prisons is listed as a concern in the first paragraph of Amnesty International’s report on Israel covering the year 2004.5 It was first exposed by the London Times in 1977 and is continually noted by the US State Department, numerous human rights organizations and others.

Over 9,000 Palestinians are currently incarcerated by Israel (over 4,000 have not had a trial), with the number of Palestinian political prisoners per capita among the highest in the world.

Torture of Americans of Palestinian descent was detailed by Foreign Service Journal in 2002.


Yet, apart from four stories on a prisoner hunger strike, we could find *only two stories* that described Israeli prison conditions for Palestinians. Only one AP headline from the area mentioned torture – and this one was about Lebanese, not Palestinian, prisoners.




Israeli Refusers.


During 2004 numerous Israelis refused to serve in the Israeli armed forces in the occupied territories.

By year’s end there were 1,392 such “refuseniks” and 37 had gone to prison. This movement was a topic of increasing discussion in Israel and the subject of numerous news reports.

Yet AP had *only one story on this*.



Nonviolence movement.


Palestinian resistance efforts have included numerous nonviolent marches and other activities, many joined by international participants, Israeli citizens, and faith-based groups. This nonviolence movement has been an important topic in the Palestinian territories, with growing numbers of people taking part.

In 2004 the Palestinian News Network reported on 79 major demonstrations that were exclusively nonviolent. Yet, we did not find *any* reports in which AP had described a Palestinian demonstration or other activity as nonviolent or utilizing nonviolence.

this thread is about Israeli MILITARY aggression against civilian populations

Zionism is Racism. Throw the racists out.

The topic has been changed many times since then.

Consistency is the hobgloblin of small minds.

So, boys, do you want me to show you what a victim of a suicide bombing looks like?

I hear that German deaths went down significantly after they put the walls up in the Warsaw ghettos and killed most of the resident terrorists.

That's what I heard.

What Tia REALLY said:
"The sheer volume of stark, gut-wrenching graphic evidence of Israel's state crimes completely smashes my entire system of lies, damn you! Since I can't come up with one one-hundredth the volume of damning imagery with which to support my position (G-d, I hate reality!), I'm placing this type of information in the category of "snuff porn," thus portraying those who present it as ghoul-like sexual deviants. Hopefully this will make you stop posting it. I know you're too stupid to notice my cheap little Jedel mind-game."

Are they developing aerosolized WP? Some of the descriptions of deaths seem to indicate more than just fragments of this material.
Those backroom boys at Dow.

"The sheer volume of stark, gut-wrenching graphic evidence of Israel's state crimes completely smashes my entire system of lies, damn you!


No, TWit. I have access to similar photos- I am reluctant to post them because it is a cheap trick- it dishonors the dead.

An 'aerosolized' incendiary agent would not "burn." Assuming it was contained to a volume of air such that fuel-air proportions were within the *narrow* suitable range, It would EXPLODE. This is what's known as a 'fuel-air bomb.' If dispersed too thinly for this, the agent would still completely burn up within a small fraction of a second

This total desiccation without visible burns? I don't know. Doesn't seem reasonable.

The world may be a better place. No?

Israel is a rogue state and needs to acquire some humanity.
How about just pulling their fangs? Then they would have to 'behave themselves'.

None of the photos demonstrate what the word 'dessication' brings to my mind. Please explain.

Greenish black shriveled skin.
Burns don't leave a corpse like that. No carbonization.

"a particular weapon used in Lebanon"


...by the Israeli military against civilians


So high-moral-ground Tia - where's your news & pictures of *the Israeli military's use of phosphorus against civilians* ?

I thought so :)


And sheepdog -

Massive direct white phosphorus exposure *always* causes that effect - has since it first started being used some 80 years ago - it's because the phosphorus *burns the body's water* and makes phosphoric acid - *limeaway* - this removes the water and does extensive damage to the body including dissolving the bones..

Imagine what you would end up like if soaked in a vat of limeaway..

That went like this

"One doctor reported seeing three corpses entirely shriveled with black and green skin..."

and was apparently derived from an al-Jazeera article
http://www.aljazeera.com/me.asp?service_ID=11951
Dr. Hussein Hamud al-Shel, who works at Dar al-Amal hospital in Ba'albek, had been quoted earlier as saying that some of the corpses the hospital received during fighting were "entirely shriveled with black-green skin," a phenomenon characteristic of phosphorus injuries.

It's pretty ambiguous. To me this useage of 'black' suggests thermal burns, i.e. "carbonized" skin, but the language here is too sloppy to be relied on. Pictures would be far better. Words alone *could* describe the injuries precisely, but none of these sources got into that.

"So high-moral-ground Tia - where's your news & pictures of *the Israeli military's use of phosphorus against civilians* ?"

Firstly, you've presented no evidence that these weapons were used against civilians
Secondly, the propaganda photos you are posting are not of people with phosphorous burns. You have posted them simply to incite.
Thirdly, we have access to photos of Israeli victims of terrorism. We do not post them out of respect for the dead.
Fourthly, my bunny is MUCH cuter than your rooster. And smarter too, I'd bet. Even with a brain the size of a milk dud.

"we have access to photos of Israeli victims of terrorism. We do not post them out of respect for the dead."

1) I don't disrespect the Arab dead AT ALL, not in any way. It's you who do that, by dismissing them as morally insignificant. When I show the world how unjustly they died, I am paying my solemn respects. This way they haven't died in vain.

2) I don't believe you. You don't seem able to control your impulses to lie, distort, and evade. I think you don't want to get into this because you have nowhere near the volume of material to draw on, and you know it. This has everything to do with not being nearly as wronged as you pretend, and you know that too. You strike this pompous pose now, but you actually gave it a whirl once, and it was pathetic

....but my bunny is much cuter than yours....and skilled,too,as you can see....now maybe hex will realize that those ball bearing filled rockets that Hezbollah was firing into Israeli civilians are every bit as objectionable as any use of white phosphorous etc by Israel...assuming that is actually true....kinda underscores what a bunch of faggoty dick raghead gangbangers Whussbollah really is.....they will use any ordance that comes to hand then bitch and moan when something equally nasty is used against the people that they themselves hide among to deliberately maximize civilian casualties... hex needs to realize that dog wont hunt any more....it aint never caught a rabbit and it aint no friend of mine

"we have access to photos of Israeli victims of terrorism. We do not post them out of respect for the dead."

1) When I show the world how unjustly they died, I am paying my solemn respects. This way they haven't died in vain.

I suspect the parents and relatives of these children would object to seeing them used in this manner. But you aren't showing any "injustice" or anything of the sort- these could be photos of kids from house fires, from conflicts long past. You present no evidence that Israel was in any way responsible for these wounds. Its just your word, TW, and I know how much that is worth.

2) I don't believe you. ...blah blah blah

The reason you and yours worked so hard to keep Jerusalem bus 19 from touring was because you were afraid of its power. It wasn't photos of body parts and dead children- it was a santiized twisted bit of metal. But even that wrought fear in the heart of Nessie, and Wendy Campbell and our other local anti-semites. You are so afraid of anything that humanizes or documents Israeli suffering.

Here's an x ray of a 17 year old victim of a suicide bombing. You know of course, that these bombs are filled with nails and screws soaked in rat poison, in order to mazimize human suffering

....but my bunny is much cuter than yours....and skilled,too,as you can see...

That is up for debate.
Is your rabbit wearing a ....bun?
Sorry. Mine is a love rabbit. Not a meat rabbit.
And no, Sheepdog is too marinated in his own hate and prejudice to ever learn.

Who is the one 'marinated' in their own hate? The ideologues that only view the death of non israelis as justified and only the israelis as victims?
Your huge hypocrisy is showing.
But that's okay, because israel can never ever do any wrong.
Ever.

=======
Thirdly, we have access to photos of Israeli victims of terrorism. We do not post them out of respect for the dead.
=======

Death extinguishes permanently the capacity to feel disrespected.

So lets see if you have a lick of sense:
Whose bunny is cuter- mine or Lord Locksley?

I've never seen you condemn Hizbollah for their use of cluster bombs, or of anti-personal weapons. I've never seen you condemn the use of suicide bombers against civilians.

Your huge hypocrisy is showing. Maybe condemn atrocities on the other side, and you'd have some credibility

My condensed company logos for the BOYCOTT ISRAEL movement ^


> you've presented no evidence that these weapons were used against civilians


http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ld6cOJqyPqY

(actual video of the phosphorus attacks in the dark, followed by footage of the injured civilians showing the phosphorus burns)


http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/777560.html

(Ha'aretz confirming phosphorus bombing of civilians)




> You have posted (pictures of the injured and dead) simply to incite.


incite what ? people seeing the truth ?

as opposed to what - your lies & distractions ?



The injured & killed Palestinains & Lebanese FAR OUTNUMBER any Israeli's by a large factor

As TW pointed out - you don't want to go down that path, I in particular have been collecting the pictures for YEARS (I have over 100,000 pictures in my archive)

This false "high moral ground" stance you've adopted is merely to insulate you from walking it.

I always consider the bandwidth and thread size which is why I generally link to larger collections and lists and combine multiple pictures into a single optimally sized one.

Tia's quote, "in the time-honored Islamic tradition of avoiding the consequences of their actions"
Wow. I wonder what Tia's reaction would be if the same was said about Judaism...lemme guess.
Once again, the inherent bigotry of zionism rears its ugly head.
Kinda like when Mel Gibson let his comments slip, huh?

A few years back two Israeli reservists, Yesef Avrahami and Vadim Novesche were stopped by Arafat's "policemen" and taken to a police station in Ramallah for questioning . A mob gathered chanting "Kill the Jews" and the two young men were lynched.
This photo is the Palestinian lynch mob, having ripped the men apart with their hands, displaying their internal organs for the people on the street.
Make of it what you will

> displaying their internal organs for the people on the street.

they used to claim they were eating them :)

I guess "people wouldn't swallow that lie" :)

you could learn a thing or two about posting & re-posting pictures over & over

a tip : don't copy the picture from where it's been posted, use the original

each time you do this there is generation loss and after several times the picture gets to be really crappy looking - like yours just did above - the artifacts are additive in case you haven't noticed...

Well that certainly ties into the 2000 election theft. And Florida. And Jeb.
Lordy.

Are you trying to pretend that such a generalization wouldn't bring outrage, and cries of "antisemitism"??? Please. We get the same reaction for aggressively criticizing Israel, are you defending making a generalization about an entire population and religion?
Tia's quote, "in the time-honored Islamic tradition of avoiding the consequences of their actions"
Wow. I wonder what Tia's reaction would be if the same was said about Judaism...lemme guess.
Once again, the inherent bigotry of zionism rears its ugly head.
Kinda like when Mel Gibson let his comments slip, huh?

It was fall on the floor funny.
But imagine if they portrayed "The running of the Muslim" instead of the "Running of the Jew".
They'd have a fatwa out on Sasha Cohen.
Imagine if Blazing Saddles featured turbaned men chanting in Arabic around the campfire instead of Jews.
They'd have a fatwa out on Mel Brooks, too.
Why is it that Jews can laugh at themselves?

Please tell me you are not commiting an unnatural act with your rabbit.
Please.

and hide under Jewish skirts ?


something to hide ? something to be ashamed of ?


the stock response is - "well look at them !"

no - we're looking at you...

and not your bunny, not the Muslims, Arabs, Palestinians, Lebanese, refugees, victims for the answer of why Zionists are so dishonest and aggressive, why they carry out oppression, theft, murder genoside then BLAME THE VICTIMS and use them as a distraction

hey I have a bunny, hey I saw a movie

hey your a lying Zionist :)

"and hide under Jewish skirts ? "

No that was Hezbollah, and now Hamas too

"Hezbollah is just a bunch of cowards hiding behind women and children"
Jan Egeland, UN Undersecretary General for Humanitarian Affairs.

You want a war where one side is free to commit whatever atrocities they chose, but the only Israelis are constrained by moral values. And you want those to be the terms of engagement because you want Israel to lose.

You feel free to chat about your boyfriend, your rooster and your radio station, but if anyone else brings anything irrelevant up, its a Zionist distraction? Sorry, sweetie. Just like a domestic turkey, it doesn't fly

Sorry, just the hypocricy and double standards we've come to expect on your side.

I don't recall being on the spot having told lie after lie..

Insted I recall *being asked or challenged* on the subject of revealing my identity

who asked about you, your bunny or what movie you saw *in this thread* ?

thought so :)


You accused me of not providing evidence of the thread topic (Israeli's use of phosphorus on civilians) and so I *again* provided it - while you're challenged to back up your claims and you provide - your bunny & movies you've seen


otherwise it's Palestinians, Lebanese, Muslims, Arabs - anyone or anything at all as long as it's not the thread topic

even me now - which has not come up at all

another distraction

SO the video showing the bombing at night where it's very difficult to avoid hitting civilians *when you can't see them*, showing the injured in the hospital, the phosphorus burns, the doctor talking about the patients ?

AND Ha'aretz's news story about the confirmation that Israel used phosphorus on Lebanese civilians ?


or is it going to be yet another "well what about them" tap dance number ?

You avoided this question:
Are you trying to pretend that such a generalization wouldn't bring outrage, and cries of "antisemitism"??? Please. We get the same reaction for aggressively criticizing Israel, are you defending making a generalization about an entire population and religion?
Tia's quote, "in the time-honored Islamic tradition of avoiding the consequences of their actions"
Wow. I wonder what Tia's reaction would be if the same was said about Judaism...lemme guess.
Once again, the inherent bigotry of zionism rears its ugly head.
Kinda like when Mel Gibson let his comments slip, huh?

The veneer is slipping. You are a bigot. Are you conscious of your bigotry?
Here's your other recent quote-I really didn't think this was who you were, Tia--I am disappointed.
Well, Prionparty
by I have a question Sunday, Oct. 29, 2006 at 9:05 PM

Well Mr. PrionParty, why do I think you might actually be Palestinian? It isn't just the lies you tell- its the obsessive way you tell them.

So can YOU show us photos of Palestinians living in tents? From this century of course. And can you explain why towns with schools, clinics, and homes are called "camps"?

1) Do you actually believe this horseshit? Do you even CARE if it's true?
2) I guess metal, like, sops up rat poison like a sponge, huh?
3) how much of a dose of rat poison would someone get this way? what's its LD50?
4) Do you have the vaguest idea what you're talking about? Does it even matter to you that you don't? I don't think it does. You're only after the effect of the words, which you think you're palming off on mindless monkeys

After the first five minutes, Sasha Cohen isn't even very funny. He's got one joke, which takes on a dental-drill quality after about the 20th variation. If he was actually talented -- as opposed to merely stoned on chutzpah (and who knows what else...) -- he could get more miles out of that one joke, but he's just the latest come-lately to an endless parade of no-talent bums who get to be permanent pop culture darlings because they personify and thus popularize Jewishness (Gene Wilder, Jon Lovitz, Al Franken, Billy Crystal, Bette Midler, Adam Sandler, Jerry Seinfeld... ) and Jews OWN Hollywood and always have.

They particularly control the comedy scene, which is overwhelmingly Jewish. It's not that Jews are hands-down the funniest people on earth. It's that the entire comedy food chain is dominated by Jewish agents, promoters, nightclub owners, producers, etc., etc., who give Jewish performers preferential treatment.

It's simple racist favoritism toward other Jews combined with a sneaky cultural conquest of everybody else.

Cohen's "humor" serves other political purposes, as well. It relentlessly equates anti-Semitism with ignorance, stupidity, and Third-World backwardness, and his "wit" becomes especially jackhammer-like when clumsily pulping people's brains with this barely-hidden message. It's so blatant as to be explicit, but then Americans are so hopelessly dumbed-down, especially on this front, that they don't even notice.

I think this is the part that really and truly tickles people like yourself. It's not that these performers are objectively fantastically funny. They're not. It's that you get to peek sideways and watch the stupid monkeys mindlessly lapping it up, oblivious to the way they're being influenced. How exquisitely delicious! For you, the shallow sophomoric gags have added layers of zesty hatred, and this makes all the difference. Not least among these hatreds is your Never Forgive, Never Forget spite for Mother Russia, the true target of Cohen's uncomplicated viciousness.

All of this is why you're promoting him here, prompting the mindless monkeys you hate most to go see his asinine movie. It makes all the secret jokes even that much funnier

"Imagine if Blazing Saddles featured turbaned men chanting in Arabic around the campfire instead of Jews. They'd have a fatwa out on Mel Brooks, too."

Your memory's not too good. Blazing Saddles took a far crueller jab at the Arabs. When Hedley Lamarr put out a "hiring all scumbags" advertisement, the following groups responded to the call: old-West desperados, Nazis in uniform, and Arabs with camels. This was Mel Brooks blatantly hyping Arabs as "the New Nazis" in 1974

To my knowledge, no fatwahs resulted, and so we see once again that you're FULL OF SHIT

From Haaretz article:

Israel has acknowledged for the first time that it attacked Hezbollah targets during the second Lebanon war with phosphorus shells. White phosphorus causes very painful and often lethal chemical burns to those hit by it, and until recently Israel maintained that it only uses such bombs to mark targets or territory.

The announcement that the Israel Defense Forces had used phosphorus bombs in the war in Lebanon was made by Minister Jacob Edery, in charge of government-Knesset relations. He had been queried on the matter by MK Zahava Gal-On (Meretz-Yahad).

"The IDF holds phosphorus munitions in different forms," Edery said. "The IDF made use of phosphorous shells during the war against Hezbollah in attacks against military targets in open ground."

Edery also pointed out that international law does not forbid the use of phosphorus and that "the IDF used this type of munitions according to the rules of international law."

HAARETZ DID NOT say they were used against civilians. A Lebanese doctor said he had seen evidence that they were.

quote:
_________________________
Graphic violence is clearly like porn to some people. It is exploitative and inappropriate to a site such as this.
Tia
_________________________
translation: secret violence is best (hide it here).

And it came to pass in those days, when Moses was grown, that he went out unto his brethren, and looked on their burdens: and he spied an Egyptian smiting an Hebrew, one of his brethren.

And he looked this way
and that way,
and when he saw that there was no man,
he slew the Egyptian,
and hid him in the sand.
Exodus 2:11-12

Viola! A work of art. Or, er, a fine example of wartime, er, photography. Yeah, thats it- photography

not to worry - we aren't affected by the framing, consciencelessly or otherwise :)


"translation: secret violence is best (hide it here)."

further translation: hide *our* violence here (we'll post it anytime it serves us as a distraction from Zionist's crimes)


one set of rules for them - a different set for everyone else :)



real-O-meter : 16

danger ! - deep non-gatekept discussion occuring

but what's that in the background ?


More Zionist love ?

Do you have that background in _Israel_ to show us ?



didn't think so :)

So I googled "palestinian terrorists" + "dipped in rat poison"

Here's what I got:

unitedjerusalem.org

cfoic.com (Christian Friends of Israeli Communities)

jfednepa.org (The Jewish Federation of Northeast Pennsylvania)

christianactionforisrael.org

embassyofisrael.org

jerusalemsummit.org

cfoiblog.blogspot.com (Catholic friends of Israel)

181818.org (WOMEN FOR ISRAEL'S TOMORROW, aka "Women in Green")

littlegreenfootballs.com

www.isranet.org

bnei-israel.org

freeman.org (right-wing zionist ultra-nationalists, aka zionazis)

think-israel.org

exorthodoxforchrist.com (don't go here. Seems to be a virus-pit)

and... (drumroll-l-l-l-l-l-l-l-saved-the-best-for-last... )

gamla.org.il (the super-whackos. Every anti-zionist should check these nuts out)

Somehow I'm still not quite convinced the rat-poison thing is as perfectly solid as Tia says

Bill Hicks transcribed:

I saw the footage over there of the Rodney King trial. I think I figured out why the LA riots occurred. Did you see these cops testifyin', man? Did these guys have balls, or what, man? These guys carry their balls in a wheelbarrow, man...

---- "Scuse me, 'scuse me... Man with big balls is here to testify."
-- "Place your right testicle on the bible."

This guy, Officer Coon -- is life too fuckin' weird or what? -- Officer Coon looks into the camera and actually says--

"Oh, that Rodney King beating tape? It's all in how you look at it."

Courtroom murmurs: "Jesus, what balls! I've never seen balls of this magnitude, this... he must have a specially fitted uniform in which to place these large testicles. That's... that's incredible."

-- "All in how you look at it, Officer... Coon?"

"That's right. It's how you look at the tape."

-- "Well, would you care to tell the court how, ah, you're lookin' at that tape?"

"Yeah, okay, sure. It's how you look at it... the tape. For instance, well--
if you play it backwards you see us help King up and send him on his way."




-- "Hmm. Not guilty! (gavel bangs)"

---- "Scuse me, 'scuse me... Man with big balls has just been acquitted."

And I watch all the news reports, you know:

"Today Officer Coon, Officer Nigger Hater and Officer Keep Darkie Down... were acquitted on all racist charges. Here's Tom with the weather."

"-- Hi Susie, it's 420 degrees Fahrenheit in South Central LA right now. Probably a good time to get outa the fuck'n city, Susie. There's gusts of lead coming up Sunset."

I thought;

a.) maybe it was staged - BY the Zionists
b.) maybe he was really collecting the toys
c.) how clean are they compared to the other debris
d.) how to the other backgrounds compare - are they consistent ?
e.) well look at the debris anyway - that's a far more important issue even if it's true
f.) I bet there's no such debris in Israel to even show
g.) this is just a distraction about the destruction that only Israeli's are doing in the first place

"the charge of the Great International Jewish Conspiracy [a la the Protocols of the Elders of Zion]"


I read it and could immediately see the document is it'self a manipulative attempt to frame this conspiracy either as a form that can be used as a point of attack/discredit by Zionists for those who buy it or as a cover to misinform/lead people away from the true nature of it.

I don't think the conspiracy can be neatly boxed in as either Zionist, Jewish or even elitist - that looking at it that way is to artificially restrict the issue to both not see it's true nature and leaves one open to attack exactly as they have been doing every since it came out

that accepting the document on it's face is bait and just another form of control...


The story 1984 touches on this concept - that both sides of the struggle are actually artificial constructs designed to box us in to a narrow range of thoughs in order to make it easier to control us -

---------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

'And the conspiracy -- the organization? Is it real? It is not simply an invention of the Thought Police?'



'You have imagined, probably, a huge underworld of conspirators, meeting secretly in cellars, scribbling messages on walls, recognizing one another by codewords or by special movements of the hand. Nothing of the kind exists. The members of the Brotherhood have no way of recognizing one another, and it is impossible for any one member to be aware of the identity of more than a few others. Goldstein himself, if he fell into the hands of the Thought Police, could not give them a complete list of members, or any information that would lead them to a complete list. No such list exists. The Brotherhood cannot be wiped out because it is not an organization in the ordinary sense. Nothing holds it together except an idea which is indestructible.'




Is the war and the resistance real ?

No - none of it's real..

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

I tend to see everything this way - anyone who puts constraints or forms notions of the extent of a situation no matter who it is or what the issue - as a gatekeeper, an artificial external form of control. The people who gatekeep IMC shouldn't take it as an insult because I see just about everyone and everything that way..

The Protocols of the Elders of Zion strikes me (strongly) as such an attempt too :)

Too many times to count


You avoided this question:
Are you trying to pretend that such a generalization wouldn't bring outrage, and cries of "antisemitism"??? Please. We get the same reaction for aggressively criticizing Israel, are you defending making a generalization about an entire population and religion?

Tia's quote, "in the time-honored Islamic tradition of avoiding the consequences of their actions"

Wow. I wonder what Tia's reaction would be if the same was said about Judaism...lemme guess.
Once again, the inherent bigotry of zionism rears its ugly head.
Kinda like when Mel Gibson let his comments slip, huh?



The veneer is slipping. You are a bigot. Are you conscious of your bigotry?
Here's your other recent quote-I really didn't think this was who you were, Tia--I am disappointed.

Tia's post:
Well, Prionparty
by I have a question Sunday, Oct. 29, 2006 at 9:05 PM

"Well Mr. PrionParty, why do I think you might actually be Palestinian? It isn't just the lies you tell- its the obsessive way you tell them."

This effectively nullifies all things you say as you prove the point that zionism is bigotry.

Witness the results of racist aggression. Without the zionist violence and on going genocide against the native populations would we have this grief?
Maybe zionists would like the Palestinians to die quietly without resistance as they are murdered, corralled and starved into oblivion.

What will it be this time? A bomb? A bomb packed with shrapnel? Is the shrapnel coated with poison? Or, perhaps most gruesome of all, have the terrorists intentionally selected an AIDS-stricken suicide bomber in the hopes his blood will infect victim and rescuer alike?

Why wasn't this citation on TW's list?

"Additionally, I jsut saw those propaganda pics you posted w/ the toys, and then saw that they were actually played backwards, quite deceiving."

Except that the toys were CLEAN amd everything else was grey.

Is that the best you can do? That was pitiful, by the way.

Or are you implying that the Lebanese rescue workers were Zionist plants? Or maybe they aren't actually Lebanese- maybe they were JEWS or ISRAELIS shipped behind enemy lines specifically for the purpose of removing toys from war scenes. Yeah- that a great use of manpower in during war time.

Any other ideas?

there's no such debris in Israel to even show - toys or not

it's just a distraction from the destruction that the Israeli's are doing

you'd almost think a few toys were more important than the thousands of innocent lives or homes or water infrastructure or phosphorus bombing - which is exactly what these Zionist trolls want you to think

3 pictures are not enough to go on to say either way - an intentional time sink

"War sucks" is the excuse they used in Vietnam for U.S. atrocities, too...yawn
Why do the defenders of state sponsored terror always revert to this one?

Why is the Israeli leadership so intent to use the most foul and horrendous death with an almost berserk wrath on their enemies? Enemies that were produced by Israeli policies and actions?
Then why do they engage in an almost hysterical mewling as they decry crimes they have themselves engaged in by many more multiple levels of violence?
And why are they *compelled* to constant denial of blame, bordering on the pathological?
Are they insane or just plain sinister and malignant?
A look at their history of betrayal towards the Jews of Poland and Germany would provide an answer as they raked in profits from the very death camps then then hide behind as they don their garish and phony 'jewishness' and bleat and squeal and dance and whine ' houlacaust' at the top of their lungs.
These are dangerously sick creatures.

how many Israeli's were killed ?

who invaded who's country ?

who is occupying who's country ?

who used phosphorus ?

who has nukes ?

who get's 5.5 billion dollars of American taxpayer's money per year ?

(1/3 of all U.S. foreign aid)


simple easy questions I know you're just dying to answer since you're just bubbling over with honesty :)

Now tell me something. About Tia's stupid photos. Who in their right mind would have a photo series about planting soft toys? Unbelievable.
And the stupid nail X-ray.
You do know that the IDF uses fletchet rounds in their tanks, don't you?
We called them beehive rounds in the 105.
Hideous damn things that are nearly impossible to treat if one survives.
Don't tell me about war, Tia, as it makes me want to puke. Individuals like yourself are the reason these things happen. Your lies fuel this insanity.

But this pathology is self destructive as well as a peril to everyone they weave into this web. If they are not mere moral cowards, how can one explain the malevolence that exhibits itself in such horror and distain for their brothers and sisters? The excuse of cultural momentum is a weak excuse for any thinking or moral society.
If this seems unforgiving it may be because we ourselves inherit the legacy of genocide as well, but aside from the continuing terror visited upon the natives of THIS continent, by the ruling evil, most of the common citizenry is in empathy for the victims.
This is not evident for the 'citizens' of israel.

I don't see it as a cultural dysfunction so much as of a mental one, which can apply to anyone - that's why non-Jewish persons can immerse themselves in Zionism just the same


It's not that Zionists are dysfunctional - it's that dysfunctional individuals are attracted to Zionism. It represents a collective dysfunction that they can revel in as a group to support eachother and build an appearance of legitimacy in their minds.

What percentage of various cultures are like this is another question which is in this case only as important as people allow themselves to accept the fallacy of Zionism equaling any particular culture or class of people like Jews

Zionism has merely latched on Jews as the closest and most convenient match in tune with thier percieved status and goals - in reality Zionism is an insult and abomination to the Jewish identity, as many orthodox Jewish groups affirm..


It's important to not get caught up in pre-concieved and manufactured ruts that serve to steer and restrict one's range of ideas

in the above case it can easily be reduced to the age old claim that by making the problem rest with Jews it is therefore anti-semitic which provides an easy dismissal

Zionists don't actually deserve to hide under the skirts of Jews - either in any positive or negative light, as their state of mind is a reality onto it'self enough that Zionism should be defeated simply for it's own sake - as a basic human weakness that mentally dysfunctional people use as a crutch to legitimate such states of mind.

By revealing it as a mental condition rather than a cultural or class distinction one avoids the easy and well worn excuse and accusation of discrimination against said cultures or classes...

"The excuse of cultural momentum is a weak excuse for any thinking or moral society."

I dunno. Tradition is incredibly powerful. Consider the persistence of the stupid intentionally clunky QWERTY keyboard. It's a pretty trivial thing compared to say religion, i.e. moral culture, and yet here it is still with us, apparently here to stay. We even tried to shake it once. We failed

I'd say you're giving the human species too much credit. We're stupid animals. We let instinct and habit do 90% of our thinking for us. It's obvious. The dictates of the previous 100 generations of evolutionary input therefore have a far more powerful influence than, say, Jesus or Einstein. This explains so much.

"most of the common citizenry is in empathy for the victims"

I can't agree. There's been a lot of sympathy for Native Americans for a hundred years, but that's cuz 100 years ago virtually all of the damage was ALREADY DONE with no going back, so therefore now we can AFFORD to feel bad. Back when feeling bad would have gotten in the way of stealing their entire world, wuddayaknow -- we couldn't be bothered. Criminals have an uncanny way of choosing their opportunities this way, and European-derived societies are just plain criminal

During the past 60 years -- while we were supposedly becoming enlightened -- we inflicted the most damage ever, causing more pain to the people of the "Third World" via crypto-imperial crypto-colonial policy than we did to all the Indians in all our history. Does America's "common citizenry" feel bad about this? Do they EVEN UNDERSTAND THERE'S SOMETHING TO FEEL BAD ABOUT? I don't think they do.

Most of the horrors were done in the name of "defeating communism," and yet you don't see Americans understanding that this was just a glib pretext for pursuing straightforward Hitlerian global domination. Most of them imagine they performed a wonderful shining noble service to the world, just like the screaming propaganda bullhorns keep telling them.

They believe those bullhorns not so much because they're blithering idiots. As much as this verdict tempts, it's much too charitable. They believe it because they WANT TO. It throws a nice pretty drapery over Dorian Gray's Picture

We're an awful lot like the zionists, you see. They may be the ugliest most insane European civilizationists, but only incrementally. That's why there are so many of them here. They fit in. We're peas in the same pod.

You see, I was deeply troubled about the things I had experienced and this became a kind of itch that I was forced to deal with. I wanted answers and I took a long time reading up on how we got here.

'Do they EVEN UNDERSTAND THERE'S SOMETHING TO FEEL BAD ABOUT? I don't think they do. '

That's the kernel of the problem, ignorance and its progeny unconcern.
That's why this tool of Indymedia has been so important and we can see that it is important because of the fire it draws from our enemies.
The struggle goes on as the truth is pealed from under the ocean of lies we live in. Give the people the truth or a tool to find it and you will find genuine humanity. In spite of the culture.

I really do

Red Cross demands action on cluster bombs

Mon Nov 6, 1:34 PM ET

The International Committee of the Red Cross called on all states to ban immediately the use of "inaccurate and unreliable" cluster bombs, responsible for killing and maiming countless civilians.

Red Cross official Philip Spoerri also called on states "to prohibit the targeting of cluster munitions against military objectives located in a populated area."

He urged states to eliminate stocks of cluster bombs "and, pending their destruction, not to transfer such weapons to other countries."

The proposals are to be formally presented at a review conference on the Convention on Certain Conventional Weapons which begins here Tuesday, said Spoerri, head of international law and cooperation at the Red Cross.

The munitions can contain up to 650 smaller bombs which scatter and explode on impact.

According to the NGO, between 95 and 98 percent of such munitions are neither reliable nor accurate, with anywhere from 10-40 percent of the so-called submunitions scattered by the mother bomb failing to explode, the ICRC said.

Often dropped via parachute, the accuracy of the weapons is highly dependent of wind and weather conditions, and often drop far from the intended target zone, affecting several thousand square metres of territory, the organisation said.

It said that in nearly every conflict in which they have been used, significant numbers of cluster munitions have failed to detonate, leaving a long-term legacy of contamination which continue to kill and maim civilians years later.

But a US official said a new agreement was not necessary. "We don't think the new rules are really needed," the senior American delegate said on condition of anonymity.

Cluster bombs allow the US to protect large sites, such as aerodromes, without needing to use large quantities of explosives, the source explained.

If such cluster bombs were banned, he argued, combatants could resort to even more destructive weapons.

The ICRC pointed out that the use of such arms by the Israeli military in Lebanon seemed unprecedented.

According to Handicap International, the Israelis used four million cluster bombs, of which up to 1.6 million failed to explode.

At least 20 people have been killed and 120 injured by residual cluster bombs since the August 14 ceasefire, it said last week.

The aid group estimated that more than 10,000 people had been killed or maimed by cluster bombs worldwide over the past 30 years.

It said 98 percent of the victims were civilians, adding that the total number of cases could be far higher -- up to 100,000 -- due to the difficulty of collecting data in conflict zones.

rubber baby buggy bumper

After a six-day barrage, Israel leaves Gaza town to count dead
By Sa'id Ghazali in Beit Hanoun and Eric Silver in Jerusalem
Published: 08 November 2006

The Israeli army withdrew from Beit Hanoun yesterday at the end of a six-day search-and-destroy operation, leaving behind a ravaged Gaza town angrily counting the cost.

A dozen of the 56 Palestinian dead were still being buried in rough, hurriedly assembled open coffins. "Damn the Jews," shouted some among thousands of mourners. "A nation of sacrifice and blood will never kneel," a Hamas activist blared through a loudspeaker. Palestinian health officials said that 17 of the dead were civilians.

During an emotional funeral procession, tens of thousands of mourners filed behind ambulances carrying the bodies.

Women wailed as the dead were brought out to the streets on stretchers draped with Palestinian flags. Children ran alongside the procession and crowds chanted "God is great".

Israeli troops, who had invaded the northern Gaza Strip to stop militants launching home-made Qassam rockets at their border towns and villages, killed eight more militants and a woman civilian yesterday in skirmishes after the withdrawal. They included Nahala Shanti, 45, the sister-in-law of the Hamas legislator who organised a human shield of hundreds of women that enabled 60 gunmen to escape an Israeli siege. A tank shelled the MP's house after soldiers said that militants fired two rocket-propelled grenades at them.

A green topped minaret was all that remained of the 700-year-old an-Nasr Mosque, where the fugitive gunmen had defied Israeli bulldozers for 19 hours last Friday. "This is a movie that should be seen by Arab leaders and George Bush," a woman in black headscarf protested to anyone who would listen.

"They have destroyed the house of God. If it was a synagogue, the whole world would condemn it."

The town's 43,000 inhabitants have paid a heavy price. The invasion destroyed 25 houses and damaged 200 more, as well as 20 lorries and other vehicles. Sewage flowed over muddy roads yesterday; trees were uprooted; electricity poles were tilting and buckled; telephone lines hung loose.

Zakaria Nasser, a travel agent, found his two buildings severely damaged when he returned to work. "I have lost all that I have earned and saved for many years," he lamented amid the rubble.

Sufian Hamad, the town clerk, estimated the damage could reach $15m (£7.5m). "This is worse than the 1967 war," he said. But he did not think the devastation would turn people against the militants, as the Israelis hoped. "Do you want me to stop the resistance while the Israelis are killing us?" he asked.

Ismail Haniyeh, the Hamas Prime Minister, has pledged $1m to rehabilitate Beit Hanoun. The locals yesterday criticised Mahmoud Abbas, the more moderate Fatah President, for doing nothing for the town. "I am a Fatah supporter," Mr Hamad confided, "but this war against Beit Hanoun has made Hamas stronger".

As four Qassam rockets hit the Israeli coastal town of Ashkelon yesterday, damaging a school, the army was drawing up its own balance sheet. Major Avital Leibovitz, a military spokeswoman, said: "The object of this operation was not to stop the Qassams 100 per cent. The point was to try to minimise the launchings and to target the rocket infrastructure. We have attained that goal."

Israel's ground and air forces killed dozens of fighters for the loss of one Israeli soldier. They hit nine rocket launching cells, including some responsible for manufacturing Qassams.

The army captured or destroyed what it described as "large quantities" of arms and ammunition, including rocket launchers, anti-tank missile launchers, AK-47 rifles, and many grenades.

The Israeli army withdrew from Beit Hanoun yesterday at the end of a six-day search-and-destroy operation, leaving behind a ravaged Gaza town angrily counting the cost.

A dozen of the 56 Palestinian dead were still being buried in rough, hurriedly assembled open coffins. "Damn the Jews," shouted some among thousands of mourners. "A nation of sacrifice and blood will never kneel," a Hamas activist blared through a loudspeaker. Palestinian health officials said that 17 of the dead were civilians.

During an emotional funeral procession, tens of thousands of mourners filed behind ambulances carrying the bodies.

Women wailed as the dead were brought out to the streets on stretchers draped with Palestinian flags. Children ran alongside the procession and crowds chanted "God is great".

Israeli troops, who had invaded the northern Gaza Strip to stop militants launching home-made Qassam rockets at their border towns and villages, killed eight more militants and a woman civilian yesterday in skirmishes after the withdrawal. They included Nahala Shanti, 45, the sister-in-law of the Hamas legislator who organised a human shield of hundreds of women that enabled 60 gunmen to escape an Israeli siege. A tank shelled the MP's house after soldiers said that militants fired two rocket-propelled grenades at them.

A green topped minaret was all that remained of the 700-year-old an-Nasr Mosque, where the fugitive gunmen had defied Israeli bulldozers for 19 hours last Friday. "This is a movie that should be seen by Arab leaders and George Bush," a woman in black headscarf protested to anyone who would listen.

"They have destroyed the house of God. If it was a synagogue, the whole world would condemn it."

The town's 43,000 inhabitants have paid a heavy price. The invasion destroyed 25 houses and damaged 200 more, as well as 20 lorries and other vehicles. Sewage flowed over muddy roads yesterday; trees were uprooted; electricity poles were tilting and buckled; telephone lines hung loose.

bumping to the bump

> Iranians for an A-Bomb

they already have "sunburn II" nukes

you don't see them vaporizing Israel now do you ?

You see, he knows more than the CIA the DIA or the NSA, NRO and all the other American intelligence agencies. He has an inside track via, the israeli lobby, to ,sell the IRAN & SYRIA has nukes whisper campaign, despite the known fact that there is only only one rogue 'state in the region with nuclear weapons.
But never mind that, he knows. He can use Google. He so smart. He the whizz.

http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2089-2383147,00.html


http://www.timesonline.co.uk/article/0,,2088-2382932,00.html

The Sunday Times October 01, 2006


A new nuclear world


George W Bush has huffed and puffed about using force to thwart Iran’s nuclear ambitions. Now he may have to learn to live with them. A meeting of senior US intelligence analysts last week was unanimous in concluding that little can be done to stop Iran under Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, its volatile president, from acquiring the technology to develop the bomb.

The United States lacks the intelligence for targeted airstrikes, partly because there are so many targets. Military action would also send global oil prices soaring and exacerbate America’s already intractable problems in Iraq. Mr Bush does not have to take the advice of his intelligence community, but after Iraq he would be wise to be wary.


In one sense this news is a relief because it appears to rule out the immediate prospect of further conflict. But in the longer term it will change for ever the balance of power in the Middle East. A country whose president has said that he wants Israel “wiped off the map” is not a secure home for weapons that enable him to do precisely that. The region is volatile enough without adding highly enriched uranium to the mix. If the West cannot prevent Iran acquiring nuclear weapons through a skilful containment strategy it seems highly likely that other countries in the region will join the arms race. Syria, Saudi Arabia and Egypt will be tempted to get the bomb.



Nobody wants nuclear proliferation, but the only time a nuclear weapon has been used in war was when nobody else possessed one. The arms race during the cold war led to the doctrine of mutually assured destruction, meaning no one dared to use the bomb. India and Pakistan have both acquired nuclear weapons and, if anything, this has helped to stabilise their relationship

A nuclear Iran is the topic, which the Hexigram whisper Champaign doesn't say they * have* any nuclear weapons but instead are inferring ( like the Iraq WMD wha wha ) to non existent weapons, What a nuclear program is, is not a weapon's project but an enrichment program ( for power ) which they, as signers of the Non proliferation treaty, are entitled to. Unlike israel which never signed and yet has all the nukes their patsies in congress allowed them to acquire.
Hex is either confused or deliberately deceitful. I'll go for pain insane.
Why doesn't he attempt another fraudulent thread in the same theme, like he did a while back?
'Cause he got humiliated when he did.

Man, would you cram a sock in that BULLSHIT?

They have Sunburn anti-ship MISSILES. Yes, they are "nuclear-capable." So what? So is an F-16, a big howitzer, or a frikkin suitcase. Are you going to claim that every country with F-16s, howitzers, or suitcases is a nuclear power too?

The Sunburn has a maximum range of 65 miles. Look it up. The late 'Jerk-off Joe' Vialls "forgot" to mention this. If Iran was to go out shopping for an initial nuclear delivery system, wouldn't this one be a wildly dumb choice? Such a delivery system has GOT to reach Tel Aviv from westernmost Iran. We're talking on the order of a thousand miles. This is a given. If it doesn't have enough range to IMMEDIATELY pose a deadly deterrent to Israel, then they might as well just fire it straight up their own asses. It would be like painting a bullseye on their foreheads and "nuke me!" on their backs

If you have something that claims they have nuclear warheads for this thing that is NOT from Jerk-off Joe (or someone just as preposterous), I'd like to see it.

as with so many other issues there's not enough data to say OR DENY for sure yet for some mysterious reason your searching abilities which have done reasonably well on other issues seem to take a dive on this one

and you seem to have forgotten the PRAVDA article stating the Ukraine sold nukes to Iran

the "fatal" flaw being the condition of the detonators while ignoring the weapons grade nuclear core material

put these 3 together

missiles with nuclear warheads reported by Pravda (condition unknown)
enrichment success reported by Iran themselves
other reports of missiles sales from China, North Korea and scud II's and worse -



NOW LET'S SEARCH


***IGNORING any material from Joe Vialls****


keyword "iran scud II"

hits -


Iran SCUD B North Korea 308 SCUD C North Korea 517 Shahab 3 North Korea 1167 Shahabs




In addition to producing its own version of the Soviet Scud-B missile, which can deliver nuclear and chemical warheads up to 300 kilometers, North Korea has produced a more advanced, extended-range Scud that flies more than 500 kilometers. And Pyongyang now plans to develop even larger missiles--the Taepo Dong-I and -II--with ranges exceeding 1,500 and 4,000 kilometers respectively. North Korea actively markets all of its missiles to customers in the Middle East, including Iran, Libya, Syria and Egypt. (See related story: North Korea's Missile Exports.)


By late 1990, Tehran also had agreed to buy North Korea's production of extended-range Scud-C missiles, which could fly 500 kilometers. Press reports in 1991 claimed that Iran had ordered an additional 200 Scud-B and Scud-Cs.




Nodong-I

North Korea is now developing a third missile called the Nodong-I with a range of over 1,000 kilometers. The Nodong was first tested in May 1993 over the Sea of Japan, but only to a range of about 500 kilometers. The Sea of Japan is too small to accommodate a full-range test of the Nodong, so future testing may take place in Iran, where there is sufficient room. Tehran is also financing the Nodong. U.S. officials tell the Risk Report that the Nodong development program is "very active" and may be near completion.


The Nodong is derived from Scud technology, but the missile is more than a simple extension of the one-stage Scud-C. The Nodong is a two-stage, liquid-fueled missile designed to carry a payload of 500-1,000 kilograms to a range of 1,000-1,200 kilometers, putting all of South Korea and parts of Japan, China and the former Soviet Union within reach.



In his 1994 annual report, the Director of U.S. Naval Intelligence said that the Nodong "will probably be able to be equipped with a nuclear warhead by 2000...


Taepo Dong-I & -II

Press reports on the Nodong-I development in the early 1990s claimed that North Korea was also developing a successor missile, the Nodong-II, which would have a range of more than 1,500 kilometers. It now appears that those reports may be referring to a new missile series, the Taepo Dong-I (TD-I) and the Taepo Dong-II (TD-II). The TD-I may utilize a Nodong-I as its first stage and a Scud-B or -C as its second stage. It is designed to fly 1,500-2,000 kilometers with a 1,000-kilogram warhead.



Jane's Defense Weekly

----------------------------------------------------------------------


AND softening us up for the letdown - we're not going to attack Iran after all -

America "is going to have to learn to live with a nuclear Iran"

The Sunday Times

------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------------

and no Joe Vialls :)

wait - I know - NYC firemen say so :)

To just say that Hexagram is obsessed. About a few things. Certainly not about the massive nuclear arsenal that we know israel does have. One may wish to wonder why. If Iran or Syria did have nukes, like N. Korea, the saber rattling the two rogue nuclear powers of America and israel would cease.
It looks like certain entities are pushing another fear mongering WMD myth, this time for the next target of the israeli lobby. The fanatic agents of israel are at it again.

Your "conclusion" involves irresponsible assumptions, no matter how you cut it. I don't see how you can honestly believe otherwise. An assertion as life-and-death as "Iran has nukes already" should not be advanced based on a bunch of nebulous "data-mining" phantoms, 15 YO projections from Jane's Defense, etc. That's BUSHIAN. You have to have something more definite than that.

I'm asking you to please be more responsible about this.

As the Sunday Times said _where's the downside to this_ ?

also there's a very strong tie-in with attributing personal defects/strengths, tit for tats, oneupmanships and other extraneous issues to this when I've presented mostly gathered data and only even appealed to connect-the-dots, and CHECKING FOR YOURSELF not even asking leaps of logic or faith when pressed, an unusual amount of which is going on...

but a strange lack of such effort and strange abundance of personal mud-slinging accompanies this subject

suggestions:

Perhaps write a letter to the editor of the Sunday Times and scream that they are on Israel's payroll ?

E-mail Jane's and inform them that on this particular occasion they are full of shit ?

And please whatever you do, don't even think about googling this yourself, that way you can merely sit back and fault those who do

again

and again

and again

sheepdog accuses me Israeli agent mossad - peachy

I point out sheepdog's *proven by his own posts* chemtrails/ENMOD/etc etc - oh my god better hide it quick !

sheepSOB :)

yeah, right.
Hexagram is a liar, just like gehrig, if it's not the same individual. Just like gehrig's accusation that nessies 'hates 99% of a Jews' w/o any URLs he keeps trying to link me with ENMOD and this bill guy w/o any evidence what so ever. He doesn't know crap about me. Even when he has attempted to contact me several times ( I'd rather sleep with a slime mold ) and I have no intention of doing so.
Yes, I do notice there are aerosol trails and if it pisses anyone off, screw you and look out your window sometimes if you can detach yourself from the TV. Try doing so on a low wind day or do a search engine query for yourself.
He keeps trying to insinuate the israeli lobby's agenda with Iran nuclear WMDs.
Judge for yourself. Any more words with this asshole is a waste of time and BW.

> Hexagram is a liar, just like gehrig, if it's not the same individual.

and gehrig says sheepahex :)


so are you both on the same meds ?


> Just like gehrig's accusation that nessies 'hates 99% of a Jews


well actually this is based on a statement nessie made several years ago (which I've seen) that 99 % of Jews support (in various contexts) Israel/Zionists and so his values (anti-racism) applies to those 99 %..

most likely gehrig doesn't think it's worth the time to dig it up



here let me help


https://israel.indymedia.org/mod/comments/display/5103/index.php

(snip)

I hate 100% of all racists. I don't distinguish between Jews and non Jews. To do so would be racist by definition. When deciding who to hate, gehrig distinguishes between Jews and non Jews. Ergo, he's a racist by definition. So I hate him, too. If you don't, you're a racist, and I hate you, as well. Either you hate *all* racists or you're a racist yourself. There's no middle ground. Hating only some racists, *is* racism. A racist is a racist is a racist. Throw them all out.

(snip)




> Yes, I do notice there are aerosol trails


a pretty way of admitting chemtrails

thank you for playing

It's called ARGUMENT BY INSINUATION. It's what people do to be dodgy when they're peddling bullshit. I got an infinitesimally tiny bullshit tolerance.

to yourself


seriously though lets just kick back, relax, take a load off, chill out, take a deep breath and

wait and see if we attack or invade Iran

we're having a good time this fine evening here and arguing about nothing important is not going to get in the way of that

remember Rummy-the-mummy, the house and senate
(the current topic we're chit-chatting about here) and count your blessings

So I went and looked at that Pravda article to refresh my memory as to why I thought your use of it was bullshit the first go-'round. Sho nuff

http://english.pravda.ru/world/ussr/22-03-2005/7927-0

Key sentence: "It is worth mentioning that the missiles **ARE_CAPABLE_OF** carrying nuclear warheads."

As in "noo-clee-yurr-CAY-PUH-BULL." YOO GOT THAT?? For clarification, see my previous use of this phrase.

The writer goes on to be a slob with this point ("The agreement to sell 18 nukes to China and Iran was fraudulently arranged..."), but this doesn't really matter. Nor does the London Times article make firm statements about any such thing. By placing items like this alongside each other, you're constructing insinuations.

No, that's NOT a fucking ad hom criticism. Blow me.

You yourself even identified the fatal flaw with your position:

"...there's not enough data to say OR DENY for sure..."

Yeah, that's right, and you're exploiting that "OR DENY" part for all it's worth, but this too *doesn't matter*. If you can't say for sure, YOU DON'T FUCKING SAY IT, not about something like this. It's morally equivalent to spreading malicious rumors that your next-door neighbor is a serial killer based on nothing but idle speculation, in which case your neighbor would be justified in launching his first murder spree by waling an axe into the back of your head.

This word "irresponsible" -- do you not know what it MEANS??

once more tell it to the Times

tell Jane to blow you


oh look gehrig's here - good

you and him can trade punches I'll check back in tomorrow morning to see who "won" :)

Wutchameen there, 'wigot?

BRING IT ON

Or scramble back under your rock. Your choice.


No hard feelings, hex. This is an area where tolerance for bullshit needs to be low, that's all

I've never been much for fighting people I like - I'll duck out rather than do that..

and I think pretty highly of your thoughts/posts, sometimes I even quote them on other forums because _they're better than mine_

the one about that movie Tia "dropped" for example

I added Woody Allen to the list however ;)

It's right here in this thread
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2006/10/184722_comment.php#186564

that link doesn't reveal it but yes

the movie "Borat"

I promoted your post to another forum where nothing is censored and added a few pictures like of Sasha Cohen looking stupid, then added this at the end :

Blazing Saddles took a far crueller jab at the Arabs. When Hedley Lamarr put out a "hiring all scumbags" advertisement, the following groups responded to the call: old-West desperados, Nazis in uniform, and Arabs with camels. This was Mel Brooks blatantly hyping Arabs as "the New Nazis" in 1974


aka - Planet Of The Arabs (linked to that story)

with this further comment when debated (my pet zionist called me - shock-horror - "anti-semitic" after I posted it :)
-
even Mel Brooks took a cheap pot shot at Arabs in the movie Blazing Saddles as the 2005 WINNER of the Sundance Film Festival 'Planet of the Arabs' covers.

Yes, Woody Allen is a perfect example. He had obvious value for people intent on using "funny movies" as ingenious psy-weapons in a deadly-serious culture war. Put this aside and his stardom becomes inexplicable.

I just penetrated what has been a mystery to me for 25 years: the "humor" of Al Franken's 'Deep Thoughts' bits on SNL. I never found them remotely funny. They were just STUPID. Now I realize that was the whole "joke!" 'Stuart Smalley' (Al Franken in a blonde wig) was an intentionally vicious parody of goy cluelessness. Blonde hair (as used in a great deal of their comedy) is code for "this is a goy. Watch us viciously attack the goy behind a veil of "humor." HAHAHAHA!! Look at the other goys laughing like idiots as we INSULT ALL OF THEM in this completely racist, ruthless, non-funny way!! HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!!!!!!!!! Oh my! Oh, tears! Too funny! Aren't they STUPID?? HAHAHAHAHAA!! Their cultural self-respect -- their IDENTITY -- is being destroyed right this second and THEY DON'T EVEN KNOW IT'S HAPPENING!!! HAHAHAHA! Why, they're just our pet monkeys now!"

The show 'Seinfeld' took this sort of "humor" to unprecedented un-funny heights of viciousness, using the same blonde-hair device. I'm thinking of George and his 'shiksa' girlfriends, the most celebrated of which (Heidi Swedberg as 'Susan Ross') ended up dead of poisoning after degrading herself endlessly with her pleadings to be his wife, as did they all. She loved him desperately. George considered her a human sex-doll. When she died, he was jubilant.

This dramatic treatment of 'shiksas' is not fucking funny. It's hateful. For one, this tableau is a REAL thing. For the untold thousands (millions?) of gentile women who've fallen in love with a peculiar Jewish variant of sexual predator, it has been a hell-terrain of pain and tragedy. My mother was a shiksa. A Jewish Physics doctoral candidate began shtupping her when she was fifteen. A year later he dumped her. She attempted suicide, taking a huge dose of barbiturates. She never fully recovered from this episode, neither emotionally nor neurologically. This shit is about as funny as brain cancer.

...except the ruthless shiksa tableau IS funny -- to a certain subset of stone-cold haters, to whom racist viciousness is the ultimate in mirth.

'Seinfeld' also fired a hateful shot at Arabs, very similar to Mel Brooks', in the form of the totalitarian "Soup Nazi" Yev Kasem -- an Arab character openly represented as heir to the Nazi stigma

...And American gentiles just mindlessly lap it all up. The part about them being clueless ahistoric idiots is true, at least.

Woody Allen's a perv too - I went over the actual court documents and dug deeply into the deal with his natural and adopted kids along with Mia, etc

I thought the joke was about the idiots who wasted their time watching this nonsense. I saw a portion of this serial and switched to some A & E before I became terminally bored. You watched this nose picking drivil? ha ha ha ha ha ha ha ha. See? there actually was comedy there Speaking of Woody Allen, he was one of the few ones who donated money to the Bertrand Russel Who killed Kennedy research project with Mark Lane and Ralph Schoenman. Now there was a comic. Sleeper is a classic.

I've always hated sitcoms hell TV in general for that matter

Sleeper was tolerable

I liked "Deconstructing Harry" (mostly)

some parts like when he's going down the elevator to hell

and he's talking to the devil (Billy Crystal) -

want me to turn on the air conditioning ?
you have air conditioning in hell ?

sure - fucks up the ozone layer !

according to my pet zionist criticizing Seinfeld IS Israel bashing while criticizing the others as well IS anti-semitic


"You can kill your television at home, but it's still a pretty impossible thing to avoid in this society"

I always find reading a book to be effective - when people ask why you would want to in company, that opens the door for some TV bashing :)

I've found very few cases of hard-core TV addicts that can't be shamed into at least turning the volume down to the point where it can be ignored, where conversation covers it up..

But in all honesty I tend to avoid people like that anyway.. The parties we have and go to usually have music playing not TV anyway.. I don't fit in too well with the TV crowd mentality :)

this site is for discussion bashing
by hex Monday, Nov. 13, 2006 at 3:44 AM

according to my pet zionist criticizing Seinfeld IS Israel bashing while criticizing the others as well IS anti-semitic

Yeah, but if I did it, I'd be accused of diverting attention from the topic at hand. (And I never liked Seinfeld and was given grief about it, either- I found the main characters self-centered, selfish and entirely unsympathetic. )

about Israel yes

the phosphorus story has been covered, pictures, footage, witness accounts, effects of phosphorus

and the usual denials "Israel-can-do-no-wong" firsters..

those are what get cited..

discussion bashing is the primary bashing that goes on here - using this example above is a mixture of sour grapes, covert pulling for more Israel-firsters to continue the denial game (Israel didn't [magic word follows] _target_ civilans), and mild disapproval for discussion of anything even hinting at criticizing
the chosen ones - in this case the chosen entertainer darlings so as to not interrupt the monkeys mindnessly lapping it up and thus encourage them to turn the channel

the magic get-out-of-jail card is TARGET - as long as that can be floated Israel can do anything, kill anyone, bomb, shell, bulldoze to their hearts content and it's A-okay since the word TARGET was tossed out afterward

So, tell me Hex- what is the legal basis for the Palestinians claim to this land? No one seems to be able to articulate this, and it makes me wonder

TW: It's not that these performers are objectively fantastically funny. They're not.
It's that you get to peek sideways
and watch the stupid monkeys mindlessly lapping it up,
oblivious to the way they're being influenced.
How exquisitely delicious!

hmmm......

UN Palestine Partition Plan of 1947

November 29, 1947

the United Nations General Assembly approved the partition plan, with 33 votes in favor, 13 against, 10 abstentions and one absent

In favour: 33

Australia, Belgium, Bolivia, Brazil, Byelorussian S.S.R., Canada, Costa Rica, Czechoslovakia, Denmark, Dominican Republic, Ecuador, France, Guatemala, Haiti, Iceland, Liberia, Luxemburg, Netherlands, New Zealand, Nicaragua, Norway, Panama, Paraguay, Peru, Philippines, Poland, Sweden, Ukrainian S.S.R., Union of South Africa, U.S.A., U.S.S.R., Uruguay, Venezuela.

Against: 13

Afghanistan, Cuba, Egypt, Greece, India, Iran, Iraq, Lebanon, Pakistan, Saudi Arabia, Syria, Turkey, Yemen.

Abstained: 10

Argentina, Chile, China, Colombia, El Salvador, Ethiopia, Honduras, Mexico, United Kingdom, Yugoslavia.

47% of the land and much of the best areas too, which is what they are now annexing with the apartheid wall

You checked their "what's the Palestinian's claim?" monkey dance decisively, hex -- good on ya! -- and then they just turn right around and weave your excellent riposte into more of their sick twisted bullshit! Why is it so impossible for them to understand that the exact same legal logic flips right back on them, a la

"The Arabs of Palestine were assigned "3 tiny non contiguous fragments"- but Israel refused to respect this partitioning, and has been scheming and conniving to steal EVERYTHING west of the Jordan River ever since, beginning with the ILLEGAL LAND GRABS of the war of '48. They would have grabbed it all right then had the armies of Egypt and Jordan not held some part of that ground. How zionists can twist any part of this in their minds into meaning "Israel was willing to sacrifice for peace," I will never fathom. Had Israel shown good faith toward the original partition plan, their legal claim to some part of Palestine would be incontestable today, but since they took their opportunities to criminally re-allocate various lands to themselves, didn't they forfeit the original deal altogether?"

I mean, how hard is this to figure out? I guess it's real hard for warped maniacal bigots who imagine morality and justice should only work in their own favor!

Gave me a good laugh, thanks!

much of the best areas too,

The fuckin' desert! The worst lands, sweetie- the malarial swamps and the desert.! You really don't have a clue about this land do you?

You should give it to the Palestinians, then. I'll hold my breath

> don't have a clue about this land do you?

I did look at detailed maps on soil fertility and water sources however I was thinking more along the lines of tactical and strategic lines which are playing out now in containment of the Palestinians while using the Apartheid Wall to steal what's left of the best farm land not to mention Jerusalem

isn't that sweet ?