UPSIDE DOWN FLAGS

Recently an SOS member brought up the idea of flying an American flag upside down at the Hollywood March.

http://www.saveourstate.org/forums/index.php?showtopic=13720

Since that is the universally recognized symbol of “my country is in distress” the poster felt that it would be an appropriate tactic given the prevailing opinion throughout SOS and the Minutemen that migrant workers have driven this country to distress. The idea was met with resistance.

Former member Rocco, who posted under the name SS187 on the SOS forum rebutted Chelene’s reactionary response stating “any American that truly does not understand what this means have not enough information to base their argument on.” The strange sentence structure notwithstanding, that was a direct attack on Nightengale.

Nightengale replied, “… I said no!!…organize your own event…and fly the flag upside down all you want!!” She went on to question even the thought that she could be accused of being wrong or even that another point of view might exist. She wrote: “I find this thread troublemaking and disrespectful by telling me and Ted [Hayes] we are wrong!! This is our march, we are organizing - final answer!!”

Apparently, it is out of the question for the rank-and-file members of SOS to even challenge the authority of their leaders. From a theoretical standpoint, this is all very ironic. Save Our State and the Minuteman Project portray themselves as Americans in the tradition of the original Minutemen. The funny thing is, the original Minutemen were anti-government and revolutionary. They opposed the monarchy and fought for the basic tenets of freedom on which the Declaration of Independence was based.

Fast forward 230 years and SOS and the Minutemen have become a pro-government group that smashes free speech and behaves in every conceivable way as anti-revolutionary.


SOS IS A SHAM

All this excitement culminated with a thread by Rocco entitled, “SOS is a Sham”. In the thread, Rocco decried, “So, [what the fuck]? Who deleted these four posts, and why? I have a handful of guesses on who & why. Either way, it all comes down to SOS being a sham. Shame on sham'ful SOS.”

(Maybe Rocco gets the irony)

Turner denied deleting the posts stating, “I take personal offense to your suggestion that Save Our State is a sham organization. I have no idea what happened, as I was attending to some familial obligations (divorce proceedings?). Be that as it may, posts deleted in the lounge about a subject other than illegal immigration do not merit your accusations/insults.”

For what it’s worth moderators Don Silva and Drumsme7 also denied deleting Rocco’s posts. Apparently, nobody has admitted to the deletions.

So here ends the plight of Rocco. Purged from the group with no public explanation given. But for a group such as SOS that prides itself on top-down control and an intolerant attitude toward dissent, a purging of this nature is not surprising.

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OMG!!

In the photo above, Chelene Nightingale aka "Patriotic Dream" who posts on the SOS website using a photo of Martin Luther King as an avatar, is wearing a Confederate flag t-shirt! And the African-American woman next to her doesnt even give a *hit!!

These RACISTS are f***ing shameless! Even the black ones. MLK would have given up pacifism just to kick their *ss!

Wair a minute... your username is "Atheist"... but you start off with "OMG!!"?!?

Anyhow, so by your analogy, wearing a Confederate flag shirt = slaveowner, so if I wear a shirt with a big dollar sign, does that mean I'm rich?

Dollar Sign -> you want money

Stars and Bars -> the South will rise again

> Wair a minute... your username is "Atheist"...
> but you start off with "OMG!!"?!?

Yes.

Madalyn Murray O'Hair used to invoke the occult every time she gave public speeches, throwing in a heart-felt "Oh my god!" into the middle of her speech from time to time.

It's a good way to underscore the irony of invoking fictional constructs as if it was in any way significant. O'Hair's application of the phrase underscored the pathetic absurdity of same when actual cultists employ the expelative.

Personally I like to use, "Sweet baby Jesus!" since it's hoped that it pisses off insane cult extremists more.

My opinions only and only my opinions.

Often people don't think about God when they say "OMG." Just the recognition of the letters "OMG" means a surprised exclamation, just like "WTF."

Are we looking at the same picture? I don't see any Confederate flag T-shirt

Look closely at the one where she holds a cross. Her jacket covers half of it.

Hi Jammer. Can you repost the picture with the cross?

Forget it. Isn't there another pic of her with the shirt?

Sorry I went away and didn't see your reply. It's here.

http://la.indymedia.org/uploads/2006/08/dsc_0176cxx.jpg

this is the 23'd that pic. of the confed flag on her shirt has been shown.

is that the best you can do?

the beaners have their ethnic stuff. whites sholuld have the same rights.

I simply posted that because someone requested it. I'm not passing it off as the brilliant realization of something no one else noticed. I myself don't really care about Confederate flags. They may be little clues, but I don't have a personal issue with it aside from all this. It doesn't mean I support it and infact I don't. I just not very knowledged in the Confederate flag and don't have much curiosity or interest in it.

She is displaying two items. A confederate battle flag and a Celtic stylized Christian cross.

The cross was an instrument of torture and slow death and was once a symbol widely used to threaten potiential dissidents. A Roman soldier.merely had to draw a cross on a wall and everybody got the message. Like leaving a noose on a tree.

Devout christians now carry crosses to convey a much different meaning. Same symbol, different message.

The confederate flag has evolved much the same way. Same symbol. Different message. But it seems you guys dont get it. She is marching with blacks including the one she is sharing the banner with. She planned this march with blacks, she marches with blacks, She eats lunch and prays with blacks. But you think shes a bigot because of her shirt. I'm surprised none of you claimed she wants to nail christians to a crosss.

obi:
< the beaners have their ethnic stuff. whites sholuld have the same rights. >

FYI, you racist, the "beaners" as you call them didn't enslave by force people from another continent for hundreds of years and then fight like hell to defend the evil system for years under said flag. In fact, slavery was ALWAYS illegal in Mexico. And thousands of runaway slaves fled TO MEXICO both before and during the civil war. Take that!

roger:
< The confederate flag has evolved much the same way. Same symbol. Different message. >

Uh, okay, so why is that you often see the confederate flag flying alongside the swastika flag at neo-nazi rallies all over the country, a la Laguna Beach. I suppose the swastika flag has "evolved" too, huh?

< But it seems you guys don't get it. >

Ah, we get it klan guy. And that's a problem for YOU.

Also, don't double post! It doesn't make you twice as intelligent. : )

First off I didn't make the beaner comment.

You know I have seen the confederate flag flying next to a Swastika, at least in pictures. It's happened. The hitler youth are shunned by groups like SOS but if you look hard enough you will find it.

I must point out though at the first pro-immigrant a few months ago in down town LA. I saw lots and lots of Mexican flags being carried by open border demonstrators. Next to FMLN flags, next to shining path flags, next to Maosist flags, , Next to Anarchist flags, next to a flag with Stalin on it. There were black bloc flags, flags of Hizbollah, The PLO, Hamas, The communist flag from the old Soviet Union, . I am not talking about the occasional flag held by some shunned nutjob. The maoists were in the hundreds and everybody seemed happy they were there.

If you think the Nazis were histories biggest murderers, I suggest you do a little reading on Stalin and Mao, both of whom murdered several times more than Hitler and both of whom were very well represented in LA by the various flag teams. I'll be happy to download pics but they are all over the net. The open borders crowd keep passing around that photo from Laguna Beach. They then stand proudly under flags of histories greatest mass murderers. So here you are still going crazy about some shirt with a confederate flag. Almost funny.

You forgot one flag.

Death toll: 5 million Koreans, 3 million Vietnamese and Cambodians, hundereds of thousands of Central Americans, half a million Iraqi children from the Sanctions and more than that in 2 wars.

A study done a couple of years ago estimated U.S. Foreign Policy has killed between 16 and 20 million people since WW II.

Not to mention firebombings of Dresden, Tokyo and other cities and the atrocities in Hiroshima and Nagasaki during WW II.

One more time this thread shows how history is ignored and forgotten.

So the half million or so immigransts carrying American flags are racists too? Will you be screaming racist go home when they walk by? I think you are mixing up anger with logical argument

>>>I must point out though at the first pro-immigrant a few months ago in down town LA. I saw lots and lots of Mexican flags being carried by open border demonstrators. Next to FMLN flags, next to shining path flags, next to Maosist flags, , Next to Anarchist flags, next to a flag with Stalin on it. There were black bloc flags, flags of Hizbollah, The PLO, Hamas, The communist flag from the old Soviet Union,...">>>

...and next to the Stars "n Stripes. So , using Roger's logic, the U.S. flag is equal to all these!!!

Jingoism is ugly. Here's a great quote:
Arundhati Roy quote: "flags are bits of colored cloth that governments use first to shrink-wrap people’s minds & then as ceremonial shrouds to bury the dead."

I just can't contain it anymore, I have been laughing about this for awhile and thought I might as well tell you guys. Both Patriotic dream and my Redondo teammate are shown in photographs here as wearing "confederate flag" emblems. What you didn't see because you didn't look close is that both of those are Lynyrd Skynyrd T-shirts! LOL!!!! Not even a confederate pride thing, just a band they like!!! Durrrrr....... talk about grasping at straws.

I want to tell you a secret. Last year during the sawdust festivial in Laguna Beach, those people who was holding the sign with Don the donkey Silva were actually neo nazi organization, National Vanguard. You can asked him about how advocate and dixieland delight was actually member in the SOS. they post at SOS thread of last year and the year before that. you can actually look it up in SOS site.

I want to tell you a secret. Last year during the sawdust festivial in Laguna Beach, those people who was holding the sign with Don the donkey Silva were actually neo nazi organization, National Vanguard. You can asked him about how advocate and dixieland delight was actually member in the SOS. they post at SOS thread of last year and the year before that. you can actually look it up in SOS site.

Lynard Skynard is a very popular band.

I remember an SOS or MM guy posted here saying his coworker has a swastika symbol or something on his desk, but that it was a Buddahist thing, not a Nazi thing. That was funny, I guess those skinheads in Laguna Beach as seen above were really Buddahist monks, huh. Or they were just promoting Buddahism and emulating the look with shaved heads.

Actually it could be argued that Mexicans, Mexico, and therefor the Mexican flag as a symbol, are a part of the history and very existence of the US too.

also, mexico is a safe haven for african american slaves during the 1800's. I bet Ted Hayes didnt know about the history of Blacks and Mexico. look at the link heather.

The USA created the mess in mexico.

The Lynyrd Skynyrd band was kind of racist, at least in their lyrics in Sweet Home Alabama. It's a great song, musically, but lyrically was defending segregation.

Big wheels keep on turning
Carry me home to see my kin
Singing songs about the Southland
I miss Alabamy once again
And I think its a sin, yes

Well I heard mister Young sing about her
Well, I heard ole Neil put her down
Well, I hope Neil Young will remember
A Southern man don't need him around anyhow

Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet Home Alabama
Lord, I'm coming home to you

In Birmingham they love the governor
Now we all did what we could do
Now Watergate does not bother me
Does your conscience bother you?
Tell the truth

Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet Home Alabama
Lord, I'm coming home to you
Here I come Alabama

Now Muscle Shoals has got the Swampers
And they've been known to pick a song or two
Lord they get me off so much
They pick me up when I'm feeling blue
Now how about you?

Sweet home Alabama
Where the skies are so blue
Sweet Home Alabama
Lord, I'm coming home to you

Sweet home Alabama
Oh sweet home baby
Where the skies are so blue
And the governor's true
Sweet Home Alabama
Lordy
Lord, I'm coming home to you
Yea, yea Montgomery's got the answer

Southern man better keep your head
Dont forget what your good book said
Southern change gonna come at last
Now your crosses are burning fast
Southern man

I saw cotton and I saw black
Tall white mansions and little shacks.
Southern man when will you pay them back?
I heard screamin and bullwhips cracking
How long? how long?

Southern man better keep your head
Dont forget what your good book said
Southern change gonna come at last
Now your crosses are burning fast
Southern man

Lily belle, your hair is golden brown
Ive seen your black man comin round
Swear by God Im gonna cut him down!
I heard screamin and bullwhips cracking
How long? how long?

Prepare to laugh. Real hard. Make sure you don't have any food or drink in your mouth.

http://www.minutemansalsa.com/

Your 3 articles are featured on the front page of US Indymedia

did they grow there own vegetable for the salsa? if not who grew them?

Very nice article that hits home in a grand way. I am impressed with not only the writers research but honesty as well in keeping the article factual. My only disagreement with the article is it being titled "The Fall Of SS187". It, in my opinion was the opposite, it was the "fall" of SOS for losing SS187 as a loyal and steadfast warrior.

Shame on Nightingale for spreading lies about me behind my back. Shame on Turner for not stepping up and not only being a man but not even a gentle"man" about remedying the fracas. He chose to look the other way while allowing his leadership play dirty juvenile tricks "behind" the scenes. Might as well have stabbed me in the back.

Rocco has far from fallen.

Good luck to all that believe they not only belong here illegally but are disillusioned to actually think they will defeat the true American spirit.

Looking forward to engaging the disillusioned in their painful defeat.