FOR IMMEDIATE RELEASE

Speak Out Against Costa Mesa's Decision to Deputize

Police Officers

COSTA MESA- On Tuesday, January 03, concerned citizens of Orange County, forming a collective called Tonantzin, will converge upon the Costa Mesa City Council in protest of the City Council's decision to train city police to enforce immigration law. The measure was approved by the council on December 7, 2005. Costa Mesa will be the first United States city to merge police and immigration duties.

This measure raises concern among Mexicans and

Central Americans throughout Orange County. How will officers distinguish between those who are legal and illegal? Brown-skinned people will be subject to racial profiling, based on appearance and surname. The measure will also erode relations between immigrants and police, as immigrants will fear reporting crimes. Furthermore, vigilantism may increase, as residents may attack and harass "Hispanics" they believe to be illegal.

Police officers are not border patrol agents! All are

invited to demand the repeal of the City Council's

decision and prevent racial profiling and unfair

attacks on immigrants in Costa Mesa.

WHEN: Tuesday, January 03, 2005

TIME/WHERE: Protest begins at 5PM at the Costa Mesa

City Council (77 Fair Drive)

At 6pm, protesters will speak to the City Council regarding the proposal of Mayor

Allan Mansoor demanding 1) The re-opening of the day

labor site. 2). The withdrawl of the vote that will

give power to certain police officers to enforce

immigration law. 3) The recall of city council

members who voted for closure of the day labor

site and the proposal that will give power to police

officers to enforce immigration laws.

Press contact: Coyotl Tezcalipoca,

matlazinka@hotmail.com



Sources:

"Costa Mesa police will enforce immigration law."

Overley, Jeff. Orange County Register. Dec. 7, 2005.

We should all refuse to show our IDs while in Culo Mesa.

Didn't Gandhi organize an ID burning protest in South Africa; maybe the same is needed here.

A legal defense team would be needed to bail out the ones that get arrested for civil disobedience.

No, don't burn your IDs , yet.

Wait until the US Gov't requires you to have a Passport, to come back into the US, from Mexico.

Or wait until the US Gov't, gives you the new REAL ID card.

Then go ahead and burn all of those you wish.

Go ahead and publicly denounce your US Allegance and Citizenship, and choose a country to be sent to.

PLEASE, do this, for me.

This is why I pay taxes.

:)

Activists should consider finding what the police think of this extra work they have been given. If the rank and file in the CMPD don't like the new law you may have an unexpected ally in this fight.

I can not believe the total disregard for law the you open border idiots have. If a person enters this country illegally, the are here illegally and are breaking the law. Kudos to Costa for actually enforcing the law. They way I see it, you people might as well release murderers and give them guns!! Hell, release pedophiles and give them Viagra and porno mags, they broke the law as well, is that ok with you as well? They broke the law, but I guess it is ok with you. In fact lets have no laws... is what I am getting from you people.

How can you equate the undocumented workers to pedophiles and keep a straight face?

You are making an irrational appeal to emotion to express your obvious lack of knowledge regarding the issues at play.

How do you propose that cops identify an undoc? What outstanding behavior, trait or characteristic will justify a person to be suspected of being an undoc? There is no methodology that can be used that will not constitute profiling and that’s against the law.

Are we going to allow the police to violate our constitutional rights – oh, sheeyit! I think they already believe that they have that authority . . . never mind.

Idiot, the cops are not going to approach them at random(although, they should) and ask them if they are illegall.

They are going to ask the ones who are in jail!!!

However, if it was up to me, since they are illegal, the should all be deported!!!

OMF profiling is against the law????

So is entering this country ILLEGALLY!!!

Why don't we enforce that law as well?

"How can you equate the undocumented workers to pedophiles and keep a straight face? "

-------------------------------------------------------------------

I doubt anyone could. I can't without making an angry face. Don't make me cite some personal history here. Imean to say, I don't really owe anyone here that kind of exposure> But above board employment and identification is how many pedophiles are tracked. Pedophiles of any nationality use the systems lack of accountability to exploit new victims. Pedophiles who wish to continue their disgusting craft hide under the radar by using false ID's, or depend on the lacodasical nature of peoples representatives in checking their backgrounds. Day laborers who work under the table is just the perfect opportunity for a pedophile to both get a job without the scrutiny normally required and get access to potential victims. They are picked up by a contractor who represents them as his legitimate employee and thus granted the status needed to be left in the vicinity of a victim.

And when they get through performing their crimes it takes all the more effort to track them down as the "contractor" has no documentation to provide to police that will aid them in tracking the perpetrator.

We were well on our way to putting roadblocks up to this type of criminal with new and speedier reporting requirements for new hires working above board. The trend of dismissing undocumented hiring as acceptable due to a need by business or individuals has sent us back to the stone age in terms of tracking and prevention.

This argument currently tendered that if we document everyone, we will overcome this part of the problem is ludicrous in that no involved government in its' national form has shown the slightest bit of interest in actually placing law enforcement of this type as a priority. Certainly they have exhibited a tendency to place economics ahead of all else.

Show me enforcement FIRST, then we can talk documentation. Otherwise, the sheer volumne of new people able to work here legally will overwhelm any enforcement methods tendered as a future remedy.

Show me the willingness to demand enforcement FIRST

Show me the willingness to protect US citizens FIRST

Show me the willingness to protect all children within US boundaries from predators FIRST

Workplace reporting must be demonstrated as a priority FIRST

Good luck at the Costa Mesa City Council meeting. You're disgusting and completely unable to control your vile behavior. You are your own worst enemies.

You couldn't possibly sit quiet during the meeting until you have a chance at the podium. You couldn't possibly express yourselves intelligently. You will shout obscenities and call everyone a Nazi. You'll act like 5 year olds on crack, get your selves thrown out for disorderly conduct, and then cry about how your rights were violated by fascists and racists.

Goons will be goons.

You're just another media victim, and a media victimizer.

Money speaks louder than words, and the people have to shout above the deafening din of dollars singing to politicians.

CALIFORNIA PENAL CODE

834b. (a) Every law enforcement agency in California shall fully

cooperate with the United States Immigration and Naturalization

Service regarding any person who is arrested if he or she is

suspected of being present in the United States in violation of

federal immigration laws.

(b) With respect to any such person who is arrested, and suspected

of being present in the United States in violation of federal

immigration laws, every law enforcement agency shall do the

following:

(1) Attempt to verify the legal status of such person as a citizen

of the United States, an alien lawfully admitted as a permanent

resident, an alien lawfully admitted for a temporary period of time

or as an alien who is present in the United States in violation of

immigration laws. The verification process may include, but shall

not be limited to, questioning the person regarding his or her date

and place of birth, and entry into the United States, and demanding

documentation to indicate his or her legal status.

(2) Notify the person of his or her apparent status as an alien

who is present in the United States in violation of federal

immigration laws and inform him or her that, apart from any criminal

justice proceedings, he or she must either obtain legal status or

leave the United States.

(3) Notify the Attorney General of California and the United

States Immigration and Naturalization Service of the apparent illegal

status and provide any additional information that may be requested

by any other public entity.

(c) Any legislative, administrative, or other action by a city,

county, or other legally authorized local governmental entity with

jurisdictional boundaries, or by a law enforcement agency, to prevent

or limit the cooperation required by subdivision (a) is expressly

prohibited.



834c. (a) (1) In accordance with federal law and the provisions of

this section, every peace officer, upon arrest and booking or

detention for more than two hours of a known or suspected foreign

national, shall advise the foreign national that he or she has a

right to communicate with an official from the consulate of his or

her country, except as provided in subdivision (d). If the foreign

national chooses to exercise that right, the peace officer shall

notify the pertinent official in his or her agency or department of

the arrest or detention and that the foreign national wants his or

her consulate notified.

(2) The law enforcement official who receives the notification

request pursuant to paragraph (1) shall be guided by his or her

agency's procedures in conjunction with the Department of State

Guidelines Regarding Foreign Nationals Arrested or Detained in the

United States, and make the appropriate notifications to the consular

officers at the consulate of the arrestee.

(3) The law enforcement official in charge of the custodial

facility where an arrestee subject to this subdivision is located

shall ensure that the arrestee is allowed to communicate with,

correspond with, and be visited by, a consular officer of his or her

country.

(b) The 1963 Vienna Convention on Consular Relations Treaty was

signed by 140 nations, including the United States, which ratified

the agreement in 1969. This treaty guarantees that individuals

arrested or detained in a foreign country must be told by police

"without delay" that they have a right to speak to an official from

their country's consulate and if an individual chooses to exercise

that right a law enforcement official is required to notify the

consulate.

(c) California law enforcement agencies shall ensure that policy

or procedure and training manuals incorporate language based upon

provisions of the treaty that set forth requirements for handling the

arrest and booking or detention for more than two hours of a foreign

national pursuant to this section prior to December 31, 2000.

(d) Countries requiring mandatory notification under Article 36 of

the Vienna Convention shall be notified as set forth in this section

without regard to an arrested or detained foreign national's request

to the contrary. Those countries, as identified by the United

States Department of State on July 1, 1999, are as follows:

(1) Antigua and Barbuda.

(2) Armenia.

(3) Azerbaijan.

(4) The Bahamas.

(5) Barbados.

(6) Belarus.

(7) Belize.

(8) Brunei.

(9) Bulgaria.

(10) China.

(11) Costa Rica.

(12) Cyprus.

(13) Czech Republic.

(14) Dominica.

(15) Fiji.

(16) The Gambia.

(17) Georgia.

(18) Ghana.

(19) Grenada.

(20) Guyana.

(21) Hong Kong.

(22) Hungary.

(23) Jamaica.

(24) Kazakhstan.

(25) Kiribati.

(26) Kuwait.

(27) Kyrgyzstan.

(28) Malaysia.

(29) Malta.

(30) Mauritius.

(31) Moldova.

(32) Mongolia.

(33) Nigeria.

(34) Philippines.

(35) Poland (nonpermanent residents only).

(36) Romania.

(37) Russia.

(38) Saint Kitts and Nevis.

(39) Saint Lucia.

(40) Saint Vincent and the Grenadines.

(41) Seychelles.

(42) Sierra Leone.

(43) Singapore.

(44) Slovakia.

(45) Tajikistan.

(46) Tanzania.

(47) Tonga.

(48) Trinidad and Tobago.

(49) Turkmenistan.

(50) Tuvalu.

(51) Ukraine.

(52) United Kingdom.

(53) U.S.S.R.

(54) Uzbekistan.

(55) Zambia.

(56) Zimbabwe.

However, any countries requiring notification that the above list

does not identify because the notification requirement became

effective after July 1, 1999, shall also be required to be notified.

I think most sex abusers of children operate within the confines of the family and normal social institutions like churches and schools.

http://www.emedicine.com/PED/topic2649.htm

"Good luck at the Costa Mesa City Council meeting. You're disgusting and completely unable to control your vile behavior. You are your own worst enemies.

You couldn't possibly sit quiet during the meeting until you have a chance at the podium. You couldn't possibly express yourselves intelligently."

Again, I'm not taking a side in the issue itself.

However, you just described SOS/Minuteman/Gilchrist people at a city council meeting in Lake Forest. Not to mention their protest rallies at the day labor sites. What looked like a high school girl was speaking, seeking ways other than negativity to deal with this issue, was speaking. And a guy who was at the last SOS Laguna rally and a Gilchrist supporter interrupted her loudly. It got to the point where police escorted him out. I have the footage. (me and my footage, I bet the Gilchrist campaign wishes I never got a video camera hahaha)

There was heckling from another.(footage! hehehe)

From my experience with them, I often saw a lack, even a total lack, of restraint against such behavior. There are reasons why some people won't just blurt out "OMG look at that obese person hahahahaha!" SOS and the Minuteman people could use some of that restraint when dealing with people here against immigration laws and people who hire them. Especially at city council meetings!!

A 15f high school student, living in a comfortable home with Mommy and Daddy, lacks experience, and has no vision, beyond the horizon, of what she was speaking of.

I don't think I interrrupted her, i tried to keep it in, but it was obvious to me, she needs a few more miles on the trail, to get some experience.

I thought she looked a little older than 15. I'm sure you don't really know her personally. I wasn't refering to you who interrupted her. It was another Gilchrist supporter who was escorted out for making a most embarrassing scene for everyone. Anyone can see the negativity in SOS/Minuteman participants, regardless of the issue, if the look closely enough.

If you look for faults, you see faults.

The gentleman, who interrupted, and was escorted out, was reacting, due to his age and experience in the matters of which the teen was speaking. She had no, zero, zilch, nada, background, to speak from. She was reacting to what she had heard, and speaking from her emotions, and her lack of knowledge was apparent.

http://www.members.aol.com/borderraven/WS_10029hsstudentlakeforestcc1.WMA

True, the rules of etiquette, and courtesy, should have been respected, and those who interrupted were wrong, to interrupt.

But those very words the girl spoke, which I have on video, are similar to many spoke by people of various ages. Can't you come up with something better than discounting someone's opinion due to age? How about the opinions of those older who may be clouded because they have spent so many years investing and working in America, they're after their own interests? Those who have lost a sense of compassion and been desensitized thinking outside the box from decades of the 'rat race' in the USA? I for one understand what the girl was saying and was glad to hear it.

"I think most sex abusers of children operate within the confines of the family and normal social institutions like churches and schools. "

---------------------------------------------------------------------

How's about you getting some personal experience instead JohnK

Anyway, The subculture is the point. Wily sex abusers of any group move about in an underground economy, aspecially so when they are being sought out. They are able to stay on the lam for months and years due to lax verification efforts.

The employer is able to justify their cavalier attitude in the reporting requirement or tolerance of known or presumed identification weaknesses by tossing up the "no one is illegal" card, or "it's the federal governments problem" excuse. Meanwhile, safeharbor is extended while the assailant searches out another victim or changes an identity. Every time someone hires illegaly they are creating an opportunity for those who need to conceal their identity an opportunity to stay hidden for another day, week, month or year.

Many indy posters charge us with the deaths of migrants in the desert or at the hands of coyotes simply because we oppose illegal entry. Those deaths in the way of sheer numbers have nothing on the quantity of sex crimes of the nature we are discussing. And yet we should protect the illegal immigrants first and foremost?

The hiring and identification laws serve the children JohnK, and they serve other intrests as well, but there is little justification for casting out the policies and procedures for protecting kids and other possible victims just for the benefit of someone to work.

By the odds alone, someday it will be shown that some of those Indymedia posters who stood in opposition to our efforts to stop the undocumented hiring halls or areas will have unwittingly enabled another case of molestation or rape by interferring or protecting them. Every time I see someone picking up an unknown and undocumented worker for either thier own use or to use in another unsuspecting persons house, I see the dice being rolled again. And I don't say AGAIN in any presumptive sense.

Leslie stated recently to me "I don't know how you sleep at night".

I will reply to her here, "I am not sleeping at night for all of us".

Cliff, you keep making vauge references to all of these shocking revelations that you have about Gilchirst and yet you never actually spit it out.

Now you claim to have stuff on video?

I think it's time for you to PUT UP OR SHUT UP.

Here's what I have. What do you have?

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?page_id=495

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?page_id=306

http://www.immigrationwatchdog.com/?page_id=496

You'll notice yourself in one of the photo's holding up a vote for Gilchrist sign. What a joke you are.

Okay I'm not sure what you're trying to get at here, but it looks like you just dropped by and jumped into all this.

Revelations? If you mean that as in conclusions, I'm not doing that. I never concluded that Jim Gilchrist is a white supremacist or a Nazi sympathizer or whatever. I'm just stating what I saw and the circumstances involved when I got kicked out of the Gilchrist campaign for asking questions about the two STORMFRONT people doing campaign work for them and trying to help them keep those types out. Assuming Mary Parker Lewis, Eldon, and Jim Gilchrist wanted to keep those types out.

Yeah there's a photo of me with a Gilchrist sign back before all this happened, back before the night of November 15, 2005, when we found out about the two STORMFRONT persons when they showed up at a Lake Forest city council meeting. We rushed to the campaign headquarters afterwards and found out, confirmed by a woman who does front desk work answering the phone, that one of them has been in there. It's an undeniable fact that at least two from Stormfront did campaign work for them.

I tried to find out exactly how and why on Earth that was happening and why it was happening for that long. Assuming it was a mistake of theirs, I wanted to help them keep those types out. And they tried to shut me up and I was kicked out.

After all that, I'm still not coming to any exact conclusions or "revelations." But I want answers and I see no other way to do this other than to go public and hope that lots and lots of reporters, radio show hosts, radio show call-in listeners, voters, etc will ask them about it. They will have to address this in the public.

You don't run a campaign, do this crap, and think everyone will be quiet about it. If Jim Gilchrist runs for office again, this will be known and questioned. This will be a factor. Count on it.

Jammer, you have yet to go public. When will you stop the "Grandstanding"?

got proof?

got hard evidence?

willing to be sued?

Go to the LA Times and OC Register. Perhaps they have rejected your information, as not newsworthy, or sensational.

I can assure you that I cannot be rightly sued or accused of defamation no matter what the campaign tries to cook up. Steve Eichler has nothing on me. It would be easier if they just come clean and start explaining.

Right now there may not be interest from the mainstream media in this. But if Jim runs for office again, I'm sure there will be. For now I'll simply wait and speak with various people like the SPLC.

Okay, so you claim that there were two Stormfront people working the phones. They were kicked out as soon as this was known to the Gilchrist campaign. You are complaining that these alleged Stormfronters were not kicked out in the manner that you would have kicked them out? The Gilchrist campaign didn't issue a press release and go to the media about it? And now you want everyone in the media to know that they didn't kick them out the way you would've done it.

Um no, that's not exactly how it is. You assume too much.

Only one of them, as far as I know, did telephone work. The other did a lot of computer work for the campaign. As far as I know, they weren't kicked out right away. I spoke with Eichler who said he spoke to one of them, asking if he would renounce his ways and getting a no for an answer, and finally said that we lost two people and asked me to find two more for the next day. About a few hours later, I got the horrendouse phonecall from Mary Parker Lewis and she said I was not welcome in the campaign anymore.

I was not concerned about the manner in which the Stormfront persons were no longer allowed in the campaign. My concern at the time was an association between the campaign and Stormfront.

I didn't ask for a press release. I wanted answers and they tried to shut me up. I was mistreated by Mary Parker Lewis with horrendous statements. Eldon threatened to call the police if I didn't leave, while refusing to acknowledge what I had to say, my printed materials, etc. Deborah-Kortney was the one who informed me and another that it was Eldon who let in FOUR of them in the offices, including the mentioned two. Infact she said Eldon KNEW they were white nationalists.

My intent is not to get the media to know the manner in which I wanted them removed because I wasn't specific on how they were to be removed. My intent is to get Jim Gilchrist and the campaign to address this. Make the public know about the facts before making their voting choice. If there's nothing sinister or wrong going on, great! Let Jim and the campaign explain! But they aren't explaining. Hmmmmmm.

Also, Jim goes around saying the Minuteman Project is "multi-ethnic." Of course it is. But to this day, as far as I know, he has not specifically renounced or stated an opposition to white supremacy or denounced any help or support that white supremacists/nationalists would offer him. I wouldn't do it on KFI. Maybe "campaign strategy" took over. Well they'll have to come up with some new strategy in "round 2."

"I wouldn't do it on KFI"

That sentence was supposed to be "He wouldn't do it on KFI."

It sounds as though the Gilchrist campaign kicked out the troublemakers and went on with their business.

It's funny how you recently admitted to being the one who invited the Nazi's to the SOS Laguna Beach rally, and in this thread you claim that you wanted to help the Gilchrist campain by keeping these very same creeps out. You seem to know who all of these Nazi's are better than anyone. Why is that?

You are most likely the one who went to the SPLC about the Nazi's that you invited to Laguna Beach too.

I never admitted to inviting the Nazis to any Laguna Beach SOS rallies or anywhere on Earth. And I have never invited them anywhere. I brought one person who I was photographed with who stated that he's not a Nazi. If you really read the posts, you'll have read that I met this person way before I got into all this at a Megadeth concert. At the time I saw him as someone who was getting out of all the white supremacy or whatever it was he was into. He stated that he's not a "Nazi" and has never been. And he has a friend, who was at the concert too, who I understand is black and hispanic. That was the one person I brought with me to Laguna. He informed me that some Nazi types will be there. He said that he was expected to hang with them, fearing consequences if he didn't. He informed me that they may come to the September 24th one. I quickly informed Joe Turner and Don Silva. Don replied saying he knew they may come from the communications he's had with one or more of them(the Nazi types). That's right, Don communicates with them. I don't.

Y'all still talking about this ? lol. As if there will ever be anything coming from Cliff that will somehow discredit JG.

Costa Mesa is shaping up to be a real goon fest, and I hope the same standards that are being used for JG will be used for the goons that show up. Their ranks are full of members that are from racist hate/sep groups such as Mexica, Mecha, ISP, AnswerLA, Gente Unida, Border Angels, and MANY Others.

You going to forget this Cliff and company ? Or, do you make it a habit of standing with them, and then decrying only Stormfronters ? Or is it that you stand with stormfronters while you decry the likes of those I listed above when it suits you, then change dancing partners and decry the stormfronters ? No, wait, now you say you are in the middle.

I konw that you are young, and in need of direction in life. We all are, or where at one point. Just be careful of being so quick, as you will be standing alone once you alienate everyone around you. Calm down while there still may be a chance of normalcy left for you.

Its that, or move, or just become uninvolved with the whole illegal immigration scene. The latter is more than likely the best choice.

As for me knowing who the Stormfront types are, I don't know about them any more than people on Indymedia do. People like Advocate, Baldy, etc. I only know general things like their names, internet nicknames, etc. You guys know more than I do.

Here's the message Don Silva once messaged me on the SOS board:

________________________

Cliff,

Thanks. We already figured they would be coming from some of our own comms we have had with one or more of them.

Well, at least we know we can turn our back to them. As for the goons....that is s different story. The whole thing is a mess. I hate the hardcore Nazi type philosophy, and wish those types would stay away, or at least control themselves. It seems like many of them are pretty nice tho, and are not to be feared in a way that is physical. Oh well....today will be different, as we will not be mingling with anyone at all....or anymore for that matter.

________________________

Again, I don't know what's in Don's head. But keep in mind he was speaking to me one on one, not speaking to Baldy or anyone from Stormfront, as seen in photos of Laguna Beach.

Hey it just seems like WatchDog or whoever here is trying to challenge my credibility. If someone calls me, I wanna answer.

I was very open with you, and you with me. You expressed concern over your friend to me first, and I said not to sweat it, as we are not going to knock someones head off the minute we see them. We are a tolerant bunch, and even communicate with the goons. I have had more contact with Leslie Radford than I have had with 'Baldy'.

So what of it ? I communicate with just about eveyone that wants to talk with me. I usually make bridges with anyone I can, for humanity's sake. I am not a professional lifelong activist, and have no desire to be one. I will drop out of this once the issue is resolved, and will forget that Indymedia, stormfront and the rest ever existed. SaveOurState will move on to more humanitarian endeavors, and guys like you, unless you calm down, will be forgotten.

Unless someone is absolutely evil, I talk with them. Oh boy ! Have I now been 'outted' ???

" Or is it that you stand with stormfronters while you decry the likes of those I listed above when it suits you, then change dancing partners and decry the stormfronters ?"

Hey, you called me on it. Speak for yourself.

While you're here Don, what's your story on one of the large SOS banners? One of the "deport" ones. The ones provided to SOS by the Nazi types?

In Laguna, as it was with much of the time back then, everyone, including yourself, were fishing for what was the correct actions when it came to the stormfront types expressing their agreement with us on the issue of illegal immigration, and their wanting to get with us on the issue as far as activism goes. Things take time to right themselves when things like this are concerned as NONE of us had experience with them, or with any other extremist group out there, including the goons. We were just a bunch of middle aged people with no activism experience for the most part. Soon, we found ourselves surrounded with bullhorn toating goons that spit on you, and stormfronters. Our reaction, and the time that it took, was all quite human.

You know very well, especially from the young man that you met at the concert, that not all of them are Nazi's. Some are , and some are far from it, and are just concerned with the preservaion of their 'race'. I care not for this, but you must admit that even those that post on here that are for 'Brownpride' are guilty of the exact same thing, and are actually commended for it ! There should be no double standard.

One of the differences between us and the goons is that we will not give into double standards everlastingly and habitually. We will be the first to admit that if there was any wrong doing, such as may be the case with how the whole handling of the stormfronters.

Again I say, what of it ? I will not just come down on you for befriending that young man no more than you or these goons on here should with us. Every situation and person must be weighed out and considered. The thing is, we do not get this type of consideration from the goons becuzz they know they can try to use every thing, great and very small against us, although they know full well some of it does not amount to a hill of beans, and they themselves are guilty of the exact same things and even much more.

Again, another big deal from some folks about that.

It was made by someone that was later found out to be of white sep leanings. Take time for some things to be known and come out.

Once he knew that we could not have him participate in any further protests, he simply said he would not need it. Pretty easy, once you take time to know about the details, or give good and honest folks the benefit of the doubt.

Point taken for what it's worth.

"you must admit that even those that post on here that are for 'Brownpride' are guilty of the exact same thing, and are actually commended for it !"

I understand this and I'm curious as to many people of this extreme there are compared to other protestors. Believe me, I wouldn't stand with the Mexica Movement or anyone like that. And like I said, I'm not switching strict sides. I've stepped away and I'm a one person operation for the most part.

gotcha, nuff said.

When I say "point taken," I don't mean you're right and I'm wrong. I just mean okay I hear(read in this case) what you're saying.

If you two have so much to say to each other, perhaps e-mail would be a more appropriate medium for communication.

I agree that this particular article is probably not the best place for Don and I to discuss this. Maybe one of my articles. But it wouldn't be the same if it was a one on one discussion.

white pride, brown pride

gallic pride, algerian pride

straight pride, gay pride

german pride, jewish pride

japanese pride, korean pride

english pride, irish pride

chinese pride, tibetan pride

brahmin pride, dalit pride

proud americans, proud indians

proud to be pure, proud to be mixed

proud of wealth, poor but proud

proud to kill, proud to exist

If someone broke into your home...and took your job...and your money...and the monies for your kids to have a decent education...and used YOUR hard earned tax money for freebies out the wazoo...and fed your kids drugs...and killed your neighbors with illegal weapons....and heaped their diseases on you and yours....would that upset YOU!!!

Maybe if you and your people had the kahunies you have fighting your losing battle here, and used those same energies back where you belong, the Fox would be the only one who would have to sneak in here.

You are less than cowards and snakes...and we all know what happens to that type, don't we??

You underestimate the power of WE, THE PEOPLE!!!!

Sneak back out, just as ya snuck in....the wall ain't up yet, but the ire of ALL AMERICANS, IS!!!!!!

If it was my house, yeah, I'd be pissed.

It's not my house. It's my country, which has, for its entire history, been energized by immigrants. People are entering the country to work, to produce things that contribute to the wealth of the country. They come here to spend their most productive years to create things here. LA wouldn't be anything without immigration.

For as long as there have been immigration laws, there have been "illegal" immigrants. It's not some new thing. The issue was handled in the past, and it can be handled today, without resorting to the hateful scapegoating that the anti-immigrant crowd engage in.

Hey Fedup.... we're the PEOPLE!! And you're outnumbered!!