This is an open question being sent out to anyone who wishes to respond.

As a person who is in total support of the protests against the minute men and the S.O.S. I have a question about the proliferation of Mexican flags that I have seen in the photographs of the protests.

Can someone please explian to me and others just exactly what is liberatory about celebrating the flag of a nation state. Mexico, like all nation states has blood on its hands.

The Mexican government is responsible, just as the United States government is, for the poverty and conditions that make immigration a necessity for so many mexicans that come to California to make a living.

The Mexican government signed N.A.F.T.A along with the United States and Canada, which did alot to add to the desperation and poverty of many pepole in Mexico, especially the indigenous.

It is Mexican government troops, wearing the flag of Mexico, who murder and brutalize the indigenous supporters of the E.Z.L.N. in the rural communities of Chiapas.

In my oppinion no flag of any nation state should be glamorized.

If there is some other symbolism of liberation that pepole feel the mexican flag stands for please tell me.

With respect and love

And for total liberation

x

You're right, Mexico has blood on their hands. The most indigenous people of Mexico (the ones that speak a native tongue and not Spanish) are the poorest my most oppressed. I find it ironic how many criticize the United States government and yet come from countries which have governments that are inhumane and corrupt.

The truth is that many mexicans hate themselves. They see the accomplishments and technological advances of other races and feel that their culture pales in comparison. They will never admit this openly. But if you have some close friends that are mexican, ask them. I did. So the mexican flag serves as a pyschological antidote and as a strength in numbers marker.

It's like a person with low self-esteem looking at himself/herself in the each morning and saying "I am somebody". Eventually he/she believes it. The mexican flag serves as their way of saying, "I am somebody".

Can someone who is not an anti-mexican racist please respond to my post.

And by the way, industry itself is inherantly oppressive and tyrannical - It is nothing to be jelous of.

Look at the Mexican Flag. It carries with it an ancient symbol of our people. It means more than just the state, it is a universal symbol that means pride in culture, in our indigenous origins, in the daily beauties of music and food, of the sincerity and simplicity of the people.

Yes, what you say about nation states is true, but loyalty to the nation and its people is a good thing in colonized nations.

Thank you for the response Zacateco. I understand now if thats the reason pepole wave the Mexican flag.

Solidarity and Revolution

damn your funny !

i love it !

Look at the United States Flag. It carries with it an ancient symbol of our people. It means more than just the state, it is a universal symbol that means pride in culture, in our indigenous origins, in the daily beauties of music and food, of the sincerity and simplicity of the people.

Yes, what you say about nation states is true, but loyalty to the nation and its people is a good thing in colonized nations.

Why do Nazis wave the American flag?

It's like a person with low self-esteem looking at himself/herself in the each morning and saying "I am somebody". Eventually he/she believes it. The American flag serves as their way of saying, "I am somebody".

The nation turns to it as an emotional, political, and patriotic symbol in good times and bad. Americans fly it everywhere we live and everywhere we go, from front porches in Florida to pickup trucks in Alaska. We display the red-white-and-blue American flag at festive events to celebrate and, at times of national tragedy, to grieve and show our resolve. We wrap ourselves in it in displays of patriotism, politics, nationalism, and jingoism.

The thirteen-stripe, fifty-star flag is as familiar an American icon as any that has existed in the nation’s history. It stirs something in the hearts of Americans like no other symbol. Yet the history of the flag, especially its origins, is cloaked in myth and misinformation.

Flag: An American Biography rectifies that situation by presenting a lively, comprehensive, illuminating look at the history of the American flag from its beginnings to today.

Journalist, historian, and author of the highly acclaimed Saving Monticello, Leepson uncovers scores of little-known, fascinating facts as he traces the evolution of the American flag from the Colonial period to its prominent role as a symbol of American resolve in today’s war against terrorism.

Flag sifts through the historical evidence to---among many other things---uncover the truth behind the Betsy Ross myth and to discover the true designer of the stars and stripes. The book also shines informing light on a string of colorful and influential Americans who shaped the history of the American flag.

Leepson analyzes the influence and impact of the maker of the star-spangled banner, Mary Pickersgill; the author of the national anthem, Francis Scott Key; the coiner of the phrase “Old Glory,” U.S. Navy Capt. Samuel Driver; the first officer killed in the Civil War,

Union Col. Elmer Ellsworth, who died defending the flag; the first African-American Medal of Honor recipient, William Carney, who carried the flag and led troops through a viciously bloody Civil War battle; the creator of Flag Day, Wisconsin schoolteacher B. J. Cigrand; the father of the pledge of allegiance, Francis Bellamy; and Joe Rosenthal, the AP photographer who took the most reproduced image of the twentieth century, the marines raising the American flag at Iwo Jima.



The American flag was seen as a symbol of a “divine plan” for the American ideal during the Civil War; as a symbol of the nation’s historical heritage at the 1876 centennial celebrations; as a symbol conveying respect for the government and our social institutions---the so-called “cult of the flag”---in the late nineteenth and early twentieth century. During the Vietnam War, the flag was a divisive emblem in a bitterly divided nation. In the wake of the events of September 11, 2001, the flag became an instant and widely used symbol of a nation united against terrorism.

The Flag, is an objective history of the American people.

He was just asking a question (which hasn't been answered yet). I'll ask it again: Why do Nazis wave the American flag?

Nazi's don't wave the American flag the wave the Swastica. Stupid questio

If you are in league with the thinking that people who stand on the corner in BP, waving the American flag are Nazi's, then you are not as open minded as you seem to portray yourself.

I don't equate the SOS in BP as Nazis. However, they do have supporters and even folks that stand in solidarity with them that are white supremicists. And although the KKK weren't specifically Nazis, they were fascists.

Let's just be honest about things...

The SOS group do not condone white seperatists...

They have from what I have seen gone out of their way to remove themselves from those that have a "ONE RACE" mentality.

And since you brought up the picture of the KKK what makes them any different from the La Raza and Farakans and other ideology of seperation?

I never said that SOS condones white seperatists, I said that many of thier supporters are white supremacists. Is that not true?

There were several National Vanguard in BP. If you don't believe me I can prove it.

The KKK were a terrorist/fascist group that lynched and killed black men and spewed hate toward Jews, Catholics and other minorities...

To be honest, the other groups that you mention may be considered "hate groups" as well, but to my knowledge have not resorted to the terror/violent tactics of the KKK.

I brought it up because the first respondent, who was pretty racist, said that Chicanos use the flag to shore up their low self-esteem. Well, I turned it around, and asked the rhetorical question about Nazis, and used the same reasoning.

The fact is, there are Chicanos with low self esteem, and there are whites with low self esteem, and both are prone to become nationalistic. That's not to say that low self-esteem invariably leads to nationalism, but nationalism "works" for them. Nationalism gives people a sense of purpose, and sometimes, an outlet for anger in the form of war and racism. Sometimes, it even creates suicide bombers. Sometimes, it creates revolutions.

That's not necessarily why Nazis in America wave the American flag. I think they do it to attract people. Nazis, at least some factions, think of themselves as mainstream (white) American patriots, upholding traditional values. Unfortunately, these traditional values include racism, segregation, a hierarchy of "races", and a return to previous years when some people were more oppressed than they are today.

They see the flag as an integral aspect of creating nationalist fervor, supressing individualism, and encouraging militant unity against a percieved enemy. It's a potent symbol that draws in people who uncritically have strong feelings for the flag after twelve years of flag-indoctrination in school.

The development of the flag salute is even more sordid. I won't to into it here.