Suppose a gang of murderous thugs breaks into your home. They kill one of your children and rape your wife in front of you. Now suppose one of them is troubled by what he sees. He shoots the gang leader to stop the goons from killing your other children and from gang raping your wife and torturing and robbing you. Is he committing murder or is he protecting your family and the other families in your community?

A similar situation exists in Iraq today, only on a much larger scale. Yanqui goons are the world’s biggest thugs. They belong to the most murderous gang in history, the US military. They’ve shot and bombed their way into Iraq, committing genocide, rape, torture, etc. They now occupy it with extreme brutality, like the gangsters in the scenario above, but far more brutal.

About 100 Iraqis die for every yanqui goon that dies. When a yanqui goon shoots officers who give him illegal orders to commit war crimes is he committing murder or is he protecting the Iraqis?

The pacifist argument that fragging yanqui goon officers is murder – while these same officers are ordering the systematic genocide of a country, especially a third world country – is the foulest form of hypocrisy. Such “pacifism” is merely an excuse for cowardice, racism, nationalism, classism and loyalty to US imperialism.

>The pacifist argument that fragging yanqui goon officers is murder – while these same officers are ordering the systematic genocide of a country, especially a third world country – is the foulest form of hypocrisy. Such “pacifism” is merely an excuse for cowardice, racism, nationalism, classism and loyalty to US imperialism.

That makes me a hypocrite.

A soldier killing an officer is still murder.

If a gangster kills a gang boss, it's still murder. There are a lot of people who smile when that happens, but, it's still murder.

Dear Mr. Cointelpro, I mean Mr. Finch, are you having a good time trying to disrupt this board and discredit it as a tool of alleged terrorists? How much do you get paid for this kind of thing?

Suppose a thug breaks into your home. He has his foot on your baby daughter's head and he is about to crush it. Are you trying to tell me that if you shoot him that's murder?

Do you not have a right to shoot him if he breaks into your home? If he's threatening the life of someone in your home you do not have the right to shoot him?

The US broke into the house of Iraq. The yanqui goons have no right to be there. The Iraqis have every right to use any means necessary to evict the US from Iraq. Goons who frag are merely defending the Iraqis.

Do you care about the Iraqis or do you care more about your image as a patriot?

One of the problems with the IMC network is that some of its operators think that whoever doesn’t agree with their agenda doesn’t have a right to express their opinions. This form of censorship is a breeding ground for tyranny and it will eventually lead to the decline of the IMC if it is not remedied.

The IMCs are going to have to accommodate debate. Debate is part of the democratic process. Disrupting open debate, shutting it down, censorship, trying to discourage its participants, etc only shows how undemocratic the IMC is. Of course some IMCs are better than others; it all depends on who is running them.

To the IMC: You people need to let this issue, which I have raised, to be debated out. What are you afraid of? Is your position on it so weak that you have to hide my posts even though I’m not breaking any rules?

All the personal attcks against me, the slander, the hiding of my posts, etc only shows how bankrupt your position is and how elitist you are.

I guess that I'm not distinguishing between defense, war, and murder in the same ways you are.

If you argue that offing one officer is good, then mowing down an entire company would be great.

I don't think of fragging as defense of Iraquis. It's more like a personal effort to deal with the war, using the violence of war in the hopes of undoing the violence.

BTW - I haven't read a pacifist position elsewhere.

If you are such a victim of censorship, Mr. Finch, then why is your posting advocating fragging right here on this thread for all to read? As for "personal attacks" being a form of censorship, I guess that any attempt by anyone to dispute your arguments or to wonder aloud if your posts advocating homicide may be part of some cointelpro-provocateur project must be censorship. In other words, postings which disagree with yours must be censored in the name of - anti-censorhip.

I guess maybe this IMC is a liitle better than others. If it is, I stand corrected.

Other IMCs are not so open. For example, I couldn't get the San Diego IMC to post the above article.

When they do post my articles, they often let the far right attack me, but they won't let me respond. I've had similar problems with the SF IMC.

If you want to play slander two can play at that.

Why would someone defend goons, who go half-way around the world to illegally invade a country to

slaughter, rape, torture, rob and displace hundreds of thousands of working people who never were a threat to anyone in the US?

Why would someone call troops, who frag their commanders murderers while they call the same troops, who killed over 100,000 Iraqis "blameless working class victims"?

You must be some kind of pig to be so vehement about supporting yanqui goons.

Calling you a CIA of FBI operative would be over doing it because you're not that smart.

You're probably a poverty pimp or a low level government employee seeking a promotion. Either way you are an opportunist.

I could ellaborate further, but why should I waste my time on light weights like you?



I'm here to debate, not to participate in a schoolyard cut down contest. If you can't handle this debate then go back to school fool.

finch, since you're new here. I oppose Meyer from the right...but who knows where you're coming from, dawg.

Meyer doesn't support the Iraq War, that much is known.

BTW, the "goons" torturing and murdering a homicide bombing are islamofascists, not US troops.

Or maybe you didn't know that because you were so busy hating the USA, bonehead.

I only support the troops in the sense that I want to bring them home now, where nearly all of them want to be. Such a solution would liberate the Iraqis as well; no US puppet government would last longer than four or five days without the US Air Force, Army, Navy and Marine Corps there to protect it.

You, on the other hand, seem to want to stir up hatred between working class GIs and a still largely middle class anti-war movement, thereby playing into Bush's hands, intentionally or nonintentionally. I get the impression that you would like nothing better than to see the (mythical) event of sixties "hippies" spitting on returning US troops as they deplane, only this time for real. Bush would love to see that. Fox News would love to see that. And various provocateurs would love to see it.

You've faced 'censorship' on San Diego IMC? You are full of shit! You get everything put on there, hell I have had more removed than you have. 80% was my response to your garbage.

As I recall you go post your crap on the News Wire like, "All troops are criminals and should be tried."

I reply, "How do you plan on doing that and what justification do you have for putting 100% of the military on trial."

You reply, "Just because it can't be done doesn't mean it shouldn't. By your logic Hitler not only shouldn't have been opposed but actually supported by our government. Do you read any books that aren't fascist?"

You always seem to close your rants by either impling that I am a racist or that I am stupid or both.

Usually, "Put down your copy of Mein Kompf and read Communist Manifesto/Howard Zinn."

So don't come here claiming this Holier than thou censorship crap. Basically I am the right wing person your telling them about and geuss what? I AM NOT RIGHT WING, I just disagree with you, the two are not mutually exclusive.

Why aren't you posting anything in repsonse to my article titled "It's fraggin time again" at the SDIMC newswire?

Is it because you are the same person who, under the name "M", had his comment removed by the SDIMC editor becuase it contained a death threat?

It looked like your writting style.

Do you know that threatening people on the internet is a federal crime?

Number one I am not M. Number two I am not posting on SD IMC because for some reason I can't. I don't know what is up with my computer but it won't let me.

As for things being illegal, doesn't matter what you believe atticus. Push it with the cops. My IP address would prove that I didn't post any death threats. Being innocent I have nothing to hide.

Secondly, you are the one who is posting crap about the illuminati and stuff on all the IMCs lately. What happened? Did you forget to take your meds or something?

Anyways I gave SD IMC to you. You don't actually debate anything. You just name call and twist words. I stay here because outside of SD IMC everyone knows how full of shit you really are.

You need to get some help atticus. I mean you accused sheepdog of being a nazi. You accused JA of being a supporter of slavery. And you posted one article that just has to be a joke; something about you being the messiah or some shit.

I think you SHOULD take the medication the state perscribes.

according to your logic Hitler wasn't the greatest leader of all time. Maybe it is because you are controled by alittle organization I like to call the illuminati.

You know the more you talk J.C. the more I am convinced you are nothing but a stupid dirty jew, and possibly part of the Illuminati. Why don't you take your Neo-Nazism (Reform Judaism) and go back where you came from.

Hemiphities shall punish you and the wicked for their disbelief in my power!

slandering me by posting anti-jewish statements under my name - like you did in the last comment - won't get you anywhere.

whoever did it is only showing their inability to handle this debate.

I think all atticus is trying to say is that it's hypocritical and racist for peace activists to call fragging murder when they give US troops complete impunity for killing 100,000 Iraqis.

To attack him, slander him, call him names only shows how bankrupt the oposition is. Buffoons like J.C. can't handle this debate.