We have been unable to find writers in the US (beyond a few old Marxist professors) who ever say anything even remotely educational...the articles posted to Indymedias (US indys being the worst!) are from middle class, nationalistic or liberal (conspiracy, simplistic arguments, etc.) perspective. These are of little value to anything (Bush loves Indymedia!). NPR is like Fox News and most people in North America have to tune into BBC for even an intelligent centrist middle class view.

Activists in the US are so deluded on so many levels that few of us comrades "in the know" bother to speak to them anymore -

- American Liberals and surface leftists have been brainwashed by Amy Goodman, NPR, Ralph Nader, and all of the Green, Eco and almost lefty groups so prevalent in the US There are about 200,000 NGOs in the US raising tens of billions of dollars for a vast propaganda network.



Obvious signs of Mental Problems:



1. The focus on Peak- Oil - what a minor and unimportant issue. The US has enough coal to replace most of its energy uses for 100 years - add in solar, uranium, oil, gas, and forests, bio-diesel, hydrogen, hybrids, energy efficiency... plus plus plus... Even without technological improvements the US has enough energy supplies domestically (!) to last for centuries...



The US fights for oil because it doesn't want the Islamic fundamentalists (or any other threat, Chavistas, Indios, etc) to make all that money. Power in the hands of others they fear greatly.



Peak Oil - well yes there will be wars - Wars that the US will "Win" but Peak Oil hurting the US - or the Capitalist Plan _ Hell No!



This myth is typical of the 911, Y2K and other hype that the poorly educated left and other yuppie types in the US swallow like any other apocalyptic and superstitious low lifes.



An Activist on Portland Indymedia recently published an article saying: "war with Iran will NOT save the US economy it will completely destroy it..."

Another reader responded:

"I have been listening on tape to Bill McKibbon's "End of Nature" and I have to agree with you. If a radical shift isn't made soon, this planet's going to heat up and that will be that for humans. We're pretty good at adapting, but the rate of change is so fast right now that I don't think we'll be able to think our way or technologize our way out of this one... So, yes, Bush & Co. has got to go immediately, for the reasons you suggest and the ones I pile on. "



Here we see the convergence of multiple layers of poor education or abusive upbringing:

The apocalyptic is seen in the "this planet's going to heat up and that will be that for humans..." then we have the narrow political perspective of: " Bush & Co. has got to go immediately..." as if Bush or Kerry or anything - except everything - that US people do has got to go...

Another writer:

"The combined phenomenon of rapidly growing indebtness of surrealistic proportion (presently in the multi trillion dollar field) in combination of massive de-industrialisation and outsourcing left the Nation economically defenceless... The havoc this will cause will make The Great Depression look like a minor dip.



Ie. A) The Establishment has supported neo liberal free-trade policies through the past decades converting the American industrial heartland into a waste land.

B)The Establishment has continued and even accelerated economically unrealistic military build up after the end of the Cold War missing a golden opportunity for paying out the so called peace dividend.

C)The Establishment has continued its policy of lowering corporate tax rates and the tax cut for the rich. "

Again - if you know very little about international finance, macro-economics, and how well the elite cooperate and play good cop-bad cop - then some of these writers may sound like they make sense - they don't!

We have been unable to find writers in the US beyond a few Marxist professors who ever say anything even remotely educational... and Marxism is obviously dead since it presupposes that the whole world industrialize and transit through capitalism before the glorious workers’ revolution is possible or desirable.

Almost all of the articles posted to any of the Indymedias (though the US indys are the worst!) are from a middle class, nationalistic or liberal (conspiracy, simplistic arguments, etc.) perspective and are therefore of little value to anything (except Bush loves Indymedia!)

We found one seemingly intelligent writer on Indymedia:

"Sadly, you all have forgotten a few things about POWER. Power is that little thing that is full of potential and often does even have to be used because it pre-empts, coerces and dominates...

For one :

neither China nor Europe can afford to let the Dollar collapse - the US is where they sell everything or make their money in banking and other investments. This aspect of power is called extortion or trickery...

The other aspect of POWER - any guesses?

Oh yeah - WAR - war is the ultimate trump card - and we are not talking war with IRAN - but war with most of the world at the same time - it is the inevitable card that the US will play and it may only be a few months away...

That's what these last 4 years have been about - TRAINING and Preparations for the total war - and 8o percent of the US will support it and we will buy or bully off plenty of other elites and whole countries (China?)"

In response a person sent this reply:

"I think, that none of us is debating, that the US is capable to destroy any of its enemies, (and be destroyed by some of them in return [ Who ??? - the US can take out or cower most nations] ), but that is hardly a hallmark of traditional military victory. (Which is to effectively hold enemy territory for economic exploitation, - as you describe it, in order to counter US economic decline.) And there lies the anomaly of US power. The Iraq war amply demonstrated US superiority over inferior conventional forces, but also its vulnerability to hold ground against non conventional armed resistance. The US ground forces are already stretched to the limit. Commanding general of the Reserve Forces was quoted to report to its superiors at the Pentagon that the Reserve is deteriorating into a broken force. The moral of the occupiers are reportedly very low. There has been 5500 desertion up to date, etc, etc. Now, Iraq is only a relatively small and impoverished country weakened by a decade and a half sanction. Just how do you propose, the US be able to project a credible military threat against other major military powers after such a spectacular demonstration of failure?"

MYTHS: Here an obviously impassioned writer doesn't realize that the Iraq war is the last war of media impact - When Uncle Sam moves next time there won't be any UN debates or any news media allowed period - and even if the news media gets to the next war - it won't matter for spit - The US no longer has any need to concern itself with media or public opinion - Just look at the scenarios these people paint - ecological collapse, multiple wars, economic chaos - Do you think in these scenarios (the future) that the US will care anymore about media - do you really think that global or national opinion will affect the Pentagon in a major war or major crisis??

Go back to school - in another country!

In response to whether most US people are fascists, a supposed anarchist at Chicago indymedia wrote:

“About the fascist point: Most people in the US are NOT fascists. Fascism is a very specific movement that rose to power in Germany and Italy (and a few other places) in the 30s. There is a white supremacist movement in the US but it is even more fringe than communist or anarchist movements. A more accurate statement about the "majority of people in the us" would be that they are nationalist. They support the state and nationalism. That is a problem that is directly in contradiction with their own interests (if they are working class folks). It is worse than elitist to see everyone in the US as fascist, it is defeatist. If everyone in the US is fascist, all we could do is "be in solidarity with the people outside the us" which would basically preclude any possibility of actually undermining the US nation-state. Since we would not be able to focus on the contradictions between the American working people and their patriotism. There isn't much contradiction within ideological fascists, they mostly just have to be destroyed. (Although you could go into a long argument about that citing Spain et cetera which i am not going to do right now)...”

But as usual this person does not say how, when or where he – or he and a few friends could “focus on the contradictions between the American working people and their patriotism.” No, and focusing (whatever that is) is quite a long ways from electing real democrats or stopping the system from within the US. His assertion that white supremicists are more fringe than anarchist or communists (or even both combined) is ludicrous! You would gather from his naive statements that compared to the friendly and rational Americans of 2005, that all Italians and Germans in the 1930s were rabid jew haters!

We have been asking for someone to explain how US people (especially the many millions of Bush voters) can not be considered FASCISTS… no meaningful response – In fact I would say no response is possible from such poorly (or overly!) educated US activists. On the other hand almost everyone we have spoken to in the last year agrees with the estimates that 45 to 60 percent of US people are classic fascists: order, suspension of civil liberties, military adventurism, racism, etc... And his idea that recognizing the truth precludes making any changes is circular reasoning and just bad sense. For one, helping other revolutions could bring down the US by weakebn9ng it, and also this activity could build a real movement in the US and spread the word quickly about how much the world will hate the US if it does not change.

One more point_ As seen from a debate on Portland Indymedia almost no one thinks that NPR is good – and yet most of the articles on Indymedia are not really much different ??

http://portland.indymedia.org/en/2005/04/315475.shtml

Debates on Indymedia are of low quality with few exceptions – other times the paid or volunteer trolls sabotage debates or Indymedia stop them sometimes too…

Here is one that we found good and sad:

http://sf.indymedia.org/news/2005/04/1713175.php

The Train - An open appeal for unity in the American Political Left

by Steven Leser Tuesday, Apr. 05,

Are you contributing to building up a coalition to stop the train, or are you more interested in fighting with Democrats…



A comment by Road to Sanity was well put, arguing that the AZmerican Dream is dead and we must go back to simpler living – like the 12950’s!

In Response “redstar: suggests that this means feudalism!

No thanks!by redstar2000 Wednesday, Apr. 06.

redstar2000@emailaccount.com

“Well, that's two messy "ideas" -- support the Democrats or go back to pre-industrial conditions (that's called feudalism, folks). Why is it, I wonder, that appeals for "unity on the left" always turn out to be some form of SURRENDER? One of those guys tells us to give up our integrity and the other one says...well, just give up -- when the oil runs out, it's death or serfdom. You know what? Whatever happens, I DON'T WANT to "unify" with those guys. I don't think anyone else with any sense should want to either.”

Response: Redstar prefers nothing, by Learn to Talk Wednesday, Apr. 06.

Apparently since we want to reduce the impact on the earth from the bizarre US mass consumption lifestyle - that equates to feudalism- irrelevant since the war will be so long and terrible that waht follows is irrelevant even even...I don't think the commenter is a troll - I think that this how most college graduate enlightned US activist think! As if having half of the population in small farming communities would be terrible and feudal (by definition!) - We are thinking about how the US was (economically - not racially) in 1950 - we consumed about one quarter of what we do now and we were happier... Was 1950 "pre-industrialization? Wow!

"we were happier..."

by just wondering Thursday, Apr. 07, 2005 at 12:04 AM

What do you mean by "we"? Were you alive in the fifties? How old are you?

Nostalgia - by redstar2000 Thursday, Apr. 07, 2005 at 5:28 AM

redstar2000@emailaccount.com

As it happens, I grew up in the 40s and 50s -- and we were so "happy" about that era that we made the 60s something very different. Turning half the population of the U.S. (or any "first world" country) into peasants is a non-starter...even the utterly wretched life in "third world" cities seems more attractive to the people who live there than life in the countryside.

Nostalgia about rural life is an old American tradition...mainly articulated by a few city-dwellers (and often those who NEVER lived in a rural setting). What rural life really is IS PRIMITIVE. Marx did not condemn "the muck of rural idiocy" just because he liked the sound of the words.

www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net

Alive in the 50's by To the Babllers Thursday, Apr. 07,

Yeas i was alive in the 50's in the midwest, and according to all polls people responded at similar levels of happiness then as they do now - only now we consume 400 percent more.

Where do you get yor polling redhead star that people in third world slums are happier than in the rural areas - - and how would you know if they would prefer - or not - to be back in rural areas if life were only slightly improved there.

The world doesn't just become the way some spoiled middle class privilidged US kids want to be - the world has a momentuum and a fate - we will all be peasants soon whether we like it or not - preparing for this future seems more rational than ignoring fate - and opposing it means fascism. do a bit of research and then say something that makes sense....

Most of the world still lives in rural areas - the largest class in the world is peasants -

The bizarre part of how US people think is that they assume that we cannot live simply without repeating the problems of the past - peasants without overlords would be happier thanthey were in the past...

by redstar2000 Thursday, Apr. 07,

“Babilers wrote: ‘Where do you get your polling redhead star that people in third world slums are happier than in the rural areas - - and how would you know if they would prefer - or not - to be back in rural areas if life were only slightly improved there.’

Well, they DON'T GO BACK...no matter what happens. Even on those occasions when there's substantive land reform, they STILL don't go back.”

[ Where are your references on not going back ? – WHere have there been substantive reforms ?? – You messed up there – because you won't be able to find any – they never happened. ]

“Subsistence farming is a crappy life; working as an agricultural laborer for some corporation is even worse. Anyone who can escape either is happy to do so.

To the Babilers wrote: "The world doesn't just become the way some spoiled middle class privileged US kids want to be - the world has a momentum and a fate - we will all be peasants soon whether we like it or not - preparing for this future seems more rational than ignoring fate - and opposing it means fascism."

"Fate" is a NON-RATIONAL concept. [US people are so educated they don't know when they look silly – fate is not necessary non-rational – its a saying – it also means what will be or what ends up happening – Quite rational! ] And it's quite odd that you conflate global urbanization and fascism; traditionally, fascist ideology has always upheld the peasantry as the "real strength" of a nation or "race", and fascist regimes developed "settlement projects" to get urban workers to go back to the countryside. Perhaps this is because the "routines" of agricultural life "teach" SUBMISSION to nature...and, by extension, to AUTHORITY.

“In any event, the fascist ruralization projects were also failures

“Babilers wrote: ‘Most of the world still lives in rural areas - the largest class in the world is peasants.’

Not for much longer. The balance may tip within a few decades or less -- a rural person will move to a city and the population of the globe will be 50.000000001% urban.

Within a couple of decades thereafter, the ABSOLUTE numbers of peasants in the world's total population will begin to decline and that decline is expected to slowly accelerate. [Has he seen the latest data showing over-counting of Urbanites and where does he get the data that it will accelerate – in fact in many areas people don't move to urban areas but stay homeless and unemployed doing occasional farm work – rather than move to the horrid cities – see mega cities and ??? ]

Babilers wrote: ‘The bizarre part of how US people think is that they assume that we cannot live simply without repeating the problems of the past - peasants without overlords would be happier than they were in the past..."

They'd HAVE overlords...either from the very beginning or soon thereafter. Peasant societies are CLASS societies...and thus subject to the laws of CHANCE. Sooner or later, a few peasants will be more successful than the rest...and use the material advantage thus gained to acquire further advantages. Eventually, they WOULD be overlords and the remainder of the peasantry would be reduced to bare subsistence.

That's not because of people "making mistakes"...it's how CLASS SOCIETIES WORK.



"i was alive in the 50's in the midwest"

by boomer Friday, Apr. 08,

I was alive in the 50's in the Midwest, too. I wasn't happy about it. Neither were my friends. That's why, as soon as we were old enough to get away with it, we ran amok in the streets to express our displeasure.

I’m curious, though. To which specific polls are you referring? Where were they taken? By whom? Who paid for them? What were cohort demographics ? What were the questions? Just wondering.

PS

Rural peasant life is not lived in "SUBMISSION" to Nature, but in harmony. It is submission to the landlords that peasants live, not Nature. Not all of them submit, though. Some resist quite effectively.

Consider, for example, the Landless Workers Movement of Brazil: English: http://www.mstbrazil.org/

Portuguese: http://www.mst.org.br/

Pleasant names for ugly realitiesby redstar2000 Friday, Apr. 08, 2005 at 7:27 AM

redstar2000@emailaccount.com

boomer wrote: "Rural peasant life is not lived in "SUBMISSION" to Nature, but in harmony."

The "art" of public relations consists of thinking up pleasant names to describe unpleasant reality.

In "nature", if it doesn't rain, your crops die.

In "nature", if it rains too much, your crops die.

In "nature", if it gets cold too late in the spring or too early in the fall, your crops die.

In "nature", if it gets too hot, your crops die.

In "nature", bugs can eat all your crops.

And, if you are a peasant, there's NOTHING you can do about it...but go hungry.

You call it "harmony" and I call it "submission"...and the peasant calls it "the Will of God".

And no sensible person lives that way if they can see any possibility, however remote, of living some other way.

Boomer wrote: "It is [in] submission to the landlords that peasants live, not Nature. Not all of them submit, though. Some resist quite effectively."

Indeed they do...and who could do other than applaud their resistance?

But let's face it -- successful peasant revolutions can, at best, promote a TEMPORARILY greater degree of equality in land ownership. The laws of class society can be "suspended" for a little while...and then they start to "bite" again.

[ Why would he ignore the obvious possibility of the peasants being in democratic control of the taxation, etc. Here he is not regarding my statement that we do not have to repeat mistakes ]]

Look at China -- where the landlord class was ABOLISHED (mostly by execution). Half a century later, the new landlords are sprouting "like mushrooms" and the poor peasants are...well, MOVING TO THE CITIES.

(Note also that while rural life is tough enough on adult males, it is exceptionally brutal for females and children...who often have the social status of domestic animals and are treated accordingly by the adult males.)

www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net

Questions for redstar - by just wondering Friday, Apr. 08,

(1.) Have you, yourslf, ever actually farmed?

(2.) If city life is so much better, how do you explain the MST?

No, I never farmedby redstar2000 Friday, Apr. 08,

redstar2000@emailaccount.com

No, I never farmed myself...though I have relatives who do or did until they went bust. My comments are not based, however, on personal experience but on CLASS ANALYSIS and material evidence that's widely available. I don't think the MST requires a "special explanation" -- movements for land reform go back all the way to the third century in Europe (peasant rebellion in Gaul) and probably even earlier in China. What is likely to happen in Brazil is that agricultural corporations will gradually displace the old landed aristocracy -- I think that's inevitable even if the MST wins all of its demands. Sooner or later, the individual peasant landowner suffers disaster...and if there's a buyer for his land, HE HAS TO SELL. The only thing that could stop that would be an unlimited source of credit at pretty close to zero interest...not something that Brazilian (or any other) capitalism is likely to provide. - www.redstar2000papers.fightcapitalism.net

So then, doesn't that mean that the problem is not rural life itself, but capitalism? by just wondering Friday, Apr. 08

Capitalism as short-hand- by redstar2000 Saturday, Apr. 09,

To say that the "problem" with anything "is capitalism" is useful short-hand in our era. In the "third world", global capitalism makes rural life even worse than it would be otherwise. But, if you look at pre-capitalist rural life (serfdom), it's STILL VERY BAD.

Those who employ the " peak oil mythology" to suggest that we will all "return to a pre-industrial life" and should "prepare for that" are -- consciously or unconsciously -- advocating FEUDALISM. Unless you intend to be a "lord", feudalism is a VERY BAD way to live. There were excellent reasons that it was overthrown.

" pre-capitalist rural life (serfdom), it's STILL VERY BAD"

by anarchist Saturday, Apr. 09,

The real problem is not capitalism, but hierarchy, of which capitalism is only one type. Capitalism is a very recent phenomenon. There were wars, poverty and oppression long before it arose. As long as there is a ruling class, however it is constituted, there will be wars, poverty and oppression. This is because, whatever else humans are, we’re mammals. Mammals have an overwhelming tendency to use whatever powers they have to their own advantage and to that of their immediate kin. There are exceptions, of course, but that’s the rule.

If they put you in charge, you'd turn into a greedy, selfish, power mad *sshole, too. So would almost everyone. Power corrupts. Money changes everything. Humanity’s only hope for peace and justice is to develop egalitarian social structures that ensure no individuals hold power ever. And yes, political economics can be conducted in an egalitarian fashion. This was the second great lesson of the Spanish Revolution. The first great lesson is that it can’t be done in one place. The capitalists powers will set aside their differences long enough to crush you. It must be done on a global basis, and simultaneously. Otherwise, it will fail.

Conclusions:

There is nothing that can really be considered thought in the US. In a sense this makes sense since there is nothing political or educational that can ever be accomplished in the US.

A more interesting question is are most Europeans fascists. I think they are – but that the 10 or 20 perrcent of Euros who are not fascists will eventually rise up and paralyze their governments into collapse or civil war …

for defeinitive view on growing US fascism see::

http://resist.ca/story/2005/5/4/1356/48414

10 million natives dead, 5 million vietnamese, 2 milion cambodians, 1 million Iraqis, thousands of Palestinians, global warming, imperialism - No problem - Let's vote