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by ~
Sunday, Mar. 21, 2004 at 7:39 PM
Police stage two fake arrests in order to provoke the black block into violence. They failed....
We saw new tactics used today during the M 20 anti-war demonstration in LA. A black block of about 50 formed. During the march, the cops placed undercovers within the block twice and a minute or so later moved in to arrest them. These people were obviously not part of the block and the whole thing was clearly staged. Immediantly, clubs started flying- they were trying to instigate us into attacking them. They failed and we remained calm. I almost can't believe the depths they've sunk to...
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by Ms. M
Sunday, Mar. 21, 2004 at 8:12 PM
I was with a group right next to the black bloc and saw police rush in and heard everyone's chants of "SHAME ON YOU LAPD"...I couldn't see what had happened but I saw that the black bloc members had done nothing wrong and I was very concerned.
Most definately SHAME ON THE LAPD!!!
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by zxcv
Monday, Mar. 22, 2004 at 8:44 AM
it is likely they were staged but some people claim to have seen the second arrested group (the guy and girl) smoke weed before the march started
I'm still not sure of the situation myself but I would be willing to bet at least one of those was staged, if not both
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by --
Monday, Mar. 22, 2004 at 10:25 AM
there was also a time at the end of the march where the police suddenly injected themselves into the march and just started swinging for no apparent reason. They didn't even arrest, or attempt to arrest anyone, they we're clearly trying to provoke the crowd into violence. I commend everyone at the march who kept their cool. This clearly demonstrated who was really acting out of line. .... It was also rumored that after this incident the police chief appeared on the scene and reprimanded the officers.
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by someone
Monday, Mar. 22, 2004 at 10:27 AM
i am very proud of the bloc for yesterday, they came out in higher numbers than usual and had a rgeat haead on their shoulders, go black bloc!
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by zxcv
Monday, Mar. 22, 2004 at 2:07 PM
um. i should have brought this up with other people while there and i told my crew on our way home BUT
did anyone notice between the first and second confrontations with the police when we were turning OFF OF SUNSET AND ONTO LA BREA, on the corner there (i'm pretty sure) it was wide open, almost like 'the perfect time for a breakaway' where we would have hit the unpermitted street and then get caught up in a swarm of cops-undercover and in uniform-from all directions
just a thought, possibly another thing they tried to pull us in to
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by Mindlock
Monday, Mar. 22, 2004 at 2:20 PM
The Arrest of the guy and girl was real. As said above they did indulge in some activities that are illegal before the march and im sure an undercover police officer would not do those sort of things
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by -
Monday, Mar. 22, 2004 at 8:20 PM
http://la.indymedia.org/news/2004/03/105805.php -has a pic and description about the second arrests
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by more rational
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 4:23 AM
Don't bring any drugs or alcohol to any political demonstration. If you must indulge, leave the stuff in your car. It's the perfect excuse to arrest you on suspicion.
That's a cool innovation for the BB to retain a NV stance. Thanks for all the tactical details.
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by witness
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 8:27 AM
I was very close to the young man's arrest on Sunset (so close, the that one cop backed into me). After the arrest, the cops appeared nervous as the surrounding crowd shouted at them. A female cop was carrying her bicycle and hit one person with the front end of it. The person hit wasn't acting overtly threatening by my estimation, just angry.
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by inca bunny
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 8:45 AM
For weeks before the March 20th demonstration, some folks on this message board said that a Black Bloc would serve no useful purpose during the Hollywood Blvd. protest. The tactic was condemned for being a provocation and likely to encourage a police attack. It was also said that agents would infiltrate the Bloc and help to disrupt the entire legal protest.
These warnings were generally dismissed as the rants of "Stalinists" and "authoritarians."
But after the demonstration... SURPRISE, even the Black Bloc now says they were infiltrated by the police!
And exactly what purpose did the Black Bloc serve at the demonstration? I mean, besides looking cute and photogenic? Did they lead a mass break away march as promised? (thank goodness no). Did they provide security to fellow marchers? I think not? What exactly did the Bloc achieve? There were many other groups who expressed political militancy and radical zeal without the black costumes.
And really... if you come to a demonstration dressed up in black and hiding your faces... carrying signs calling for the abolishment of the state, people are going to take pictures of you. How silly to try and hide your faces when people attempt to take those pictures. If you don't want your picture taken then don't show up as a group in Halloween costumes.
When it comes right down to it, that's all the Black Bloc is... a fashion parade and a useless tactic. The ONLY thing it achieves is to give the police an excuse to attack peace demonstators.
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by gas mask
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 11:12 AM
the black bloc is very far from fasion, i was in it and we showed to alot of people there that we're not just militant people out to get in a fight with the lapd and we sacrificed our body's to expose the true face of the lapd. i was hit by billie clubs and offered to threat to the lapd what so ever. next time try to hang around the black bloc and see how we react. then you can talk.
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by gasmask
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 11:58 AM
offered no threat**
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by more rational
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 12:00 PM
I just wonder what the point of the tactic was this time!
I think Anarchists should consider new tactics for new situations. I, for one, was not into the heavily amplified Repetitive Cheerleader Posse and their Reactionary Chanting Policy....
The people, united, will never be defeated? Sure, unless they're united to vote for a neoliberal Democrat. They could win, but lose in the end.
Peace? What is a "Revolution" if not a kind of war?
Whoop whoop that's the sound of the police? Ummm... after the revolution, who becomes the police?
I guess some radicals just want to fit in with the "mainstream working class" that was conspicuously underrepresented at the march. (I'm no exception, sad to say! I was being apolitical and confusing by carrying a painting of a bomb. That's bourgeois postmodernism for you.)
Amplification can help people lead and centralize, but deprives the masses of people of the visceral experience of yelling that is physically liberating.
In contrast, the actual competition between chants that occurred between the amplified chanting was organic self-organization, where local yell leaders would present their positions as experiments, to be take up by people. Some were more popular than others, but, in the end, mirrored a sort of simplified debate that told you what people were thinking.
Thankfully, there were disrputive anarchists with slogans like No War But Class War. Someone has to be out there daring to say the radical message. It widens the parameters of the debate.
Here are some suggested signs for future marches:
I HAVE NO MONEY, I MUST STEAL FOOD.
I HATE COPS BECAUSE MY PARENTS ABUSED ME.
STEAL FROM WORK. YOUR BOSS ALREADY DOES.
EMPLOYEE OF THE MONTH.
PRODUCTIVITY IS PLUNDERING THE EARTH.
MY BLACK CLOTHING THREATENS THE POLICE. UNIFORMS INCREASE STUPIDITY!
(THE CHICAGO) SCHOOL SUCKS!
NEOLIBERAL POLICIES IN CHILE INCREASED UNEMPLOYMENT AND LOWERED REAL WAGES, CREATING A CRISIS OF LACK OF DEMAND. PRIVATIZATION AIDED THE ELITE, AND IMF DEBT WAS PAID FOR BY TAXES ON WORKERS.
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by Calling your bluff
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 3:49 PM
So there was a BB, it didn't do a breakaway. The march happened, the people that went on it felt good, none of the media reported it, noone saw the march downtown except people right beside it.
Big deal.
Nothing achieved.
What was the march supposed to accomplish? Raise money for ANSWER? Make liberals feel that they are good people because they're NotBush?
Not good enough. The whole thing was a complete waste of time. The liberals have won and they'll be funding the pigs, prisons and invasions just the same as the Republicrats.
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by Mindlock
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 3:56 PM
There was no break away in the M20 protest seeing as the Block Bloc was in to small of numbers and would of been easily ripped apart by the "fuzz" becuase of the lack of organization and expierance of many of the Black Bloc participants
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by A
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 8:19 PM
<img src="http://la.indymedia.org/news/2003/10/90020_comment.php#90037/ a-black-flag.jpg" align="middle"></td> |
Is this the incident that took place on Sunset in front of Hollywood High?
If it is then I saw many people taking photos and video. Yet there is no posting on this site or any other I can find of the incident. Please post if you have any.
While the police helicopter was overhead the police also drove two squad cars into the center of the march and a row of about 8 motorcycle cops blocked the march for about 5 to 10 minutes backing up the march as it rounded the corner on Highland.
There needs to be more investigation and collection of documentation of this. Next time bring scanners, cell phones, and have spotters out the Bloc to provide advance warning. If they can spy on us we can spy on them. Be prepared to protect and defend the Black Bloc it is the core of the movement. Thats why they go after us.
Also heres what happen in SF.
See the link.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/03/1674279.php
We must be prepared for their attack.
|
See the link.
http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/03/1674279.php
We must be prepared for their attack.
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by A
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 8:23 PM
Is this the incident that took place on Sunset in front of Hollywood High? If it is then I saw many people taking photos and video. Yet there is no posting on this site or any other I can find of the incident. Please post if you have any. While the police helicopter was overhead the police also drove two squad cars into the center of the march and a row of about 8 motorcycle cops blocked the march for about 5 to 10 minutes backing up the march as it rounded the corner on Highland. There needs to be more investigation and collection of documentation of this. Next time bring scanners, cell phones, and have spotters out the Bloc to provide advance warning. If they can spy on us we can spy on them. Be prepared to protect and defend the Black Bloc it is the core of the movement. That’s why they go after us. Also here’s what happen in SF. See the link. http://www.indybay.org/news/2004/03/1674279.php We must be prepared for their attack.
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by Swineherd
Tuesday, Mar. 23, 2004 at 8:25 PM
are still trying to provoke the Block.
Shoo! Shoo!
Pigs, the march is over.
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by -
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 12:17 AM
"Be prepared to protect and defend the Black Bloc it is the core of the movement. That’s why they go after us. "
Couldn't have said it better myself! It seems like the block had more support at this demo than previous ones.
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by more rational
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 12:51 AM
It's a festival! A good party for a good cause is not a waste of time.
It's a chance to let people from all over LA get together.
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by big black bat thing
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 10:52 AM
"Ignore" wrote:
"Be prepared to protect and defend the Black Bloc it is the core of the movement. That’s why they go after us. "
With our demonstration of around 20,000 people marching down Hollywood Blvd... a march of militants from all quarters of our movement, do you REALLY think that 50 kids dressed up in Bloc Bloc uniforms represent "the core of our movement." ???
That is a delusional thought. How on earth does Black Bloc relate to the immigrants of Central America, the young urban people of color, the Bus Riders Union activists and the hundreds of other groups out there who worked hard to make M20 a success?
Putting on black ski masks and marching as a bloc does not a movement make. YOU may think that the Black Bloc is "the core of our movement" but the 19,950 other people in the march are going to DISAGREE with you!
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by Anarchist
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 3:27 PM
The people who do black blocs are indeed the core of the movement. This may not sit well with some sectarian leftists who feel threatened by anarchists. The cops certainly don't like us. But the fact remains that anarchists in and outside of the black bloc provide core services and solidarity for all activist movements. We organize these demonstrations. We write for Indymedia. We keep your computers running and we feed you. We do legal support for people who get tossed in jail and we run your activist e-mail lists. If this is news to you, then perhaps one of the non-anarchist activists hasn't pulled you aside to explain the valuable work that anarchists contribute to these movements.
If you are a cop who is dissing us anonymously, thanks for giving us the opportunity to promote ourselves.
Make your ignorant comments about the black bloc being irrelevant to people in Central America, but I've known several black bloc participants who have done political work in Central America and many others who do solidarity work here in the USA. We're out there everyday doing activist work in our communities. What's your excuse?
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by monkey
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 6:07 PM
the black bloc claims that the police infiltrated then arrested themselvs. however, someone already stated that the second group of people arrested were smoking pot before the march (very un-police like) and the first arrest (charges of felony vandalism) is a friend of mine, visiting from the east coast.
the police aren't as organized as you think they are. violent, trigger happy, and quick to decide whose side you are on, yes. but all this talk of police provocateurs, please.
stop the paranoia. we need to be above that.
and i'll weigh in on the black bloc -- what's the point of a black bloc if it doesn't do anything. black bloc is to provide annonymity for individuals engaging in illegal behavior. it's not so you can feel cool 'cause "i marched with the black bloc." it's so you can smash a window then hide within the bloc.
i don't see the value of a black bloc in LA marches -- the marches are too small. if you want to vandalise things it's much safer (and arguably more effective) to do at night (4am). ride a bike and leave your anti-capitalist calling card at the scene.
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by monkey
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 6:39 PM
anarchists are certainly an important part of the movement but no more important than other groups. if we are in fact the core of the movement, the movement (esp. in la) is in trouble. have you been to FNB lately? where is the infoshop? AGC isn't doing much these days. where's the health collective?
or am i missing something... i hope so.
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by ~
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 6:50 PM
Well were you there? I certainly was, and I can say for sure that at least one of the arrests was staged, if not 3 of them. Leave the analysis of the pigs to people who've had more experience dealing with their shisty tactics. As for the Black Bloc, again were you part of it? If you had been, you'd know what are goals were, but you weren't, so you don't. They certainly were not to be slaughtered and arrested. Again, leave the analysis of the block's goals to the people actually in it. *Side note* Sounds like the pigs use this board a lot. Like someone said earlier, the march is over. SHOO AWAY & quit trying to provoke!
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by big black bat thing
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 6:53 PM
"Anarchist" wrote:
>> The people who do black blocs are indeed the core of the movement.<<
You really ARE delusional!
>> This may not sit well with some sectarian leftists who feel threatened by anarchists.<<
I am NOT a sectarian leftist... nor do I feel "threatened" by anarchists. That being said, the post by "Anarchist" is the perfect example of sectarianism. Just who proclaimed Black Bloc anarchists to be the "core of the movement"? Why, none other than Black Bloc anarchists!
>> But the fact remains that anarchists in and outside of the black bloc provide core services and solidarity for all activist movements. We organize these demonstrations. We write for Indymedia. We keep your computers running and we feed you. We do legal support for people who get tossed in jail and we run your activist e-mail lists.<<
The same could be said of the activities of many social democratic, green, socialist, feminist, anti-globalist, communist, labor union, and other types of organizers. All of these aforementioned activists ALSO organize demonstrations, write for Indymedia, feed people, do legal support work, build websites and run e-mail lists. It is extremely arrogant and elitist to proclaim yourselves to be the center of the movement when you are only ONE TINY FACTION of a large and diverse spectrum.
The radical pacifist "Catholic Workers" have run a free health clinic and kitchen in downtown L.A. for many years... long before "Food not Bombs." I mention this not to divide, but to point out that the "Catholic Workers" don't self-proclaim themselves to be the core of anything... they just feed the poor and tend to the sick. The National Lawyers Guild (NLG) has fought for the civil rights of activists for DECADES... it is the NLG that negotiates permits for rallies and marches, does the heavy lifting when it comes to doing legal support for activists... and it is the NLG that helps spring folks from jail. Yet the NLG would NEVER proclaim themselves to be the "core of our movement." That would simply be foolishly arrogant and profoundly undemocratic.
>> If you are a cop who is dissing us anonymously, thanks for giving us the opportunity to promote ourselves.<<
Again... more insults, slander, and knee jerk paranoia. It would be a wonderful thing if anarchists stopped and listened in a serious way to what others had to say on the subjects of leadership, organizing, and the like... but it seems you are too busy constantly soapboxing about how you are the "core of the movement" to see that you are standing all by yourselves.
>> Make your ignorant comments about the black bloc being irrelevant to people in Central America, but I've known several black bloc participants who have done political work in Central America and many others who do solidarity work here in the USA. We're out there everyday doing activist work in our communities. What's your excuse?<<
First... please make a distinction between "Black Bloc" and "Anarchist." Black Bloc is a tactic (and not a very good one). Anarchism on the other hand is a political theory or philosophy. They do not necessarily go hand in hand. That being clear... I'll say it again, the Black Bloc is totally irrelevant. There are plenty of anarchists who wouldn't dream of putting on a black mask and confronting the police, not to mention the attitudes of the wider peace and justice movement (who outright REJECTS the notion). I'll admit... the Black Bloc looks cute and makes for good photographs... but otherwise, they serve no real purpose.
Doing solidarity work and organizing in various communities is one thing... but playing at being anonymous street fighters is quite another. Do you REALLY think your little black masks prevent the police from knowing exactly who you are? Come on, get real! This thread opened with posts on how easy it was for the police to infiltrate your humongous throng of 50 out of a demonstration of 20,000... sowing chaos and making arrests from within your very ranks! The Black Bloc on M20 in Hollywood, with it's threats of an un-permitted breakaway march, opened up the ENTIRE demonstration to police violence and disruption.
I'm glad that you are socially and politically active. I'm elated that you want to change the world for the better. It's wonderful that you embrace the concepts of justice, liberty, and freedom in a very personal way. I encourage all of you to continue on that path. But to proclaim yourselves the "core of our movement" flies in the face of reality. You must learn to work with... and yes, learn from others.
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by astrid the proll
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 7:47 PM
Monkey, i think you need to take a step back. Your militancy is kinda taking over your mindset on certain anarchist ways of doing things. The bloc is more than a justification for breaking a window and hiding. It can mean somthing symbolic, it can have its comfortablity, and it can just make you feel good that you are with other anarchists on the same level. I dont know how many times ive talked with anarchists who put rules on the black bloc. You dont have to break shit to be in the black bloc, you dont have to have every single peice of your clothig pure black, everyone has different opinions on why they are in the black bloc and why they dress that way. We are all anarchist and we all have different minds, and especialy... we can all do what we want. So dont go around defining things that shouldnt be defined, especialy the bloc.
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by astrid the proll
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 7:49 PM
Monkey, i think you need to take a step back. Your militancy is kinda taking over your mindset on certain anarchist ways of doing things. The bloc is more than a justification for breaking a window and hiding. It can mean somthing symbolic, it can have its comfortablity, and it can just make you feel good that you are with other anarchists on the same level. I dont know how many times ive talked with anarchists who put rules on the black bloc. You dont have to break shit to be in the black bloc, you dont have to have every single peice of your clothig pure black, everyone has different opinions on why they are in the black bloc and why they dress that way. We are all anarchist and we all have different minds, and especialy... we can all do what we want. So dont go around defining things that shouldnt be defined, especialy the bloc.
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by spray can kid
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 9:12 PM
i was arrested for fellony vandalism at the march and when they took me to the station, i saw both the guy with the green bandana (when he got arrested, many people said it was a set up) and the guy with the spiderwebs and other tats aswell as one more person i hadn't seen before handcuffed to a bench waiting to be booked. i didn't see the girl though. I also didn't get to talk to them because since i'm a juvenile, they kept me in a seperate room.
one new tactic i did see though, was that the cops would dissapear and then reappear with who they were going to arrest already decided. I beleive that the cops would back off and undercovers would observe then tell the cops who to arrest. when the cops appeared when they arrested me, they just showed up behind us and immediately came after me.
as for the bloc, i think that in some ways it wasn't as affective as it could have been, but in other ways it was very affective. when they came after me, larger members of the bloc pushed me behind them and tried to push the cops away. the cops started swinging batons though and got me.
the reason why i beleive what i do about the police tactic is i know none of the cops saw me do anything. once they arrested me and had me sitting in front of some theater, they had the undercover come and he IDed me by looking at a small patch on my backpack.
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by LOL
Wednesday, Mar. 24, 2004 at 10:27 PM
"If you don't want your picture taken then don't show up as a group in Halloween costumes.
When it comes right down to it, that's all the Black Bloc is... a fashion parade and a useless tactic. "
Amen!
NOTHING and I mean NOTHING is more pathetic than a bunch of 20 something middle class white kids wearing bandanas over their faces and carrying on about anarchy.
I mean, c'mon. It's truly ridiculous.
*** This comment was posted from an IP associated with a disruptive poster. The MD5 hash of their IP is dabcdecdbbccffe. This value is the same even if the user uses another name. Only posters deemed disruptive by the editorial collective will have this text appended to their posts. We apologize for any erroneous misidentifications.
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by monkey
Thursday, Mar. 25, 2004 at 1:17 AM
astrid, step back taken. here is a better representation of my views (i would never vandalize any place during a march [i like stencils and wheat paste but that's another time/place])
my ideal march is one where people participate without doing the same thing as everyone else. we are all there walking with our peer group, chanting or carrying a sign or listening. we should be participating in this theatre. create (or destroy) something.
make a statement -- something more than a bumper sticker on a stick. i would explain, with a few giant puppets, your opinion of world events/history. start a marching band whose goal is 'to loosen the sphincter of the world'*. create theatre by writhing about, covered in white dust and torn clothes. leave a place for signs in the march but very little room for passive actors (make that the role of bewildered cops).
i assume you are an anarchist, joining black bloc and all. i don't see us (anarchists [yes me too]) organizing a march anytime soon. answer et al. have the money, organanizing experience, mailing lists... but we can make our message heard and understood. if black bloc isn't about smashing things, what is it about? show me. you can hang out with your friends at the meeting (or cleanup) afterwards.
these things all take time (and creativity) so start now -- another march can't be far away.
* the motto of the superbroke brass and strings and woodwind marching band ensemble (come back!) ** i was pulling a bike trailer full of fruit -- it'll be even better next time.
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by more rational
Thursday, Mar. 25, 2004 at 9:20 AM
The Direct Action Network helped organize Seattle 1999, LA 2000, Philly 2000.
I don't think it's that Anarchists lack the skill, or even the resources, but that they don't get that excited about big marches.
Everyone liked the fruit!
(Condolences to the kid who got busted. Thanks for the report.)
(To the person who said the BB attracts cops into the march. There were cops within the march who were not looking at the BB.)
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by Emmett
Thursday, Mar. 25, 2004 at 3:57 PM
Well hey there... I am the green bandana 'set-up' arrest. I just got released from L.A County Jail... if that will do anything to dispel rumors about being a cop.
I will be honest and say it is a little frustrating/disheartening to get out and read shit on indymedia about being a cop and stupid back and forth debates about black bloc and tactics and all that shit... what else is fucking new? But I figured I would throw in a few cents of opinion since I have had a lot of days tosit around and be bored out of my fucking skull... at least when not sleep deprived and dealing with the living hell that is L.A. County/The American Gulag.
First of all... myself... I think I was pretty stupid on saturday. I get really tired of going to marches where there isn't a whole lot of energy or imagination... I knew it was sponsored by ANSWER and would include the rigorous formula of starting a march with march wardens... passing a line of garbage bins asking for money and winding up somewhere and having some 'experts' or movement 'stars' talk about shit you already know and probably wind up asking you for money in the end. In general that kind of thing frustrates me because I wind up feeling like it is a waste of energy and fails to be creative and dynamic (I am talking about us, the march participants now... not the organization that put it on). Along the lines of what monkey posted.. I think it is a shame to show up to a demonstration with nothing to do. I dont really care what that means to you - but come on, bring your own props/plans and fucking contribute with something more than your body walking along the street.
I was up late the night before... and in the morning, groggy and tired - I just grabbed a can of spraypaint and headed out the door. I am no graffiti artist... and I feel like I just wasnt thinking much that day - I didn't have anyone at the demo to roll with.. only like two kids there knew me and they were occupied with foodnotbombs trailers.
I wear a mask when I go to demonstrations - I dont do this as an act of getting dressed up for fashion - I do this because I dont want john ashcroft and the FBI to put my face into a dossier and list every political function I ever go to - I think we live in a fascist state - if you think they only take pictures of people like 'anarchists' or 'violent protestors' you are not in touch with reality... even the l.a. times on saturday ran a story about how the FBI tailed john kerry (high up in vietnam veterans against the war [nonviolent]) for years with no probable cause - and the patriot act undid all the protections passed after nixon got kicked out (not that they stopped the FBI anyways... case in point: Judi Bari).
I also do this because if I do plan on doing anything illegal - or even leave open the possibility that something might come up (like a friend getting arrested and having to try to get him unarrested) it goes a little way to protecting myself. If you go anywhere else in the world anyone going to a demo wears a mask (especially central america... previous commentator) because people dont kid themselves that they are against the government and that the government will come to get them once it feels too threatened (if you go to a demo in germany (especially anti-fascist demos) the police from your home town and have been to every demonstration you have are there to greet you with your first and last name and a smile... especially if the fascists are standing nearby and can overhear).
I am not attempting to be more militant-than-thou, I agree that the mainstream press (and liberal lefty) reaction to a mask is that it means you are going to commit crime and that you are outside the law (true in my case). I am just at the point where I dont really care what the media says about a rally - because it is always under-reported, negative and distorted anyways - it always fails to convey 'our message' to the liberal middle-class audience that the media targets (with the rare exceptions of police ritoing that goes so out of control it is hard to ignore because it is apparent on the cameras that cops are using excessive force). I think it is more important for the people on the march to feel like they are doing something (again, that can be whatever blows your hair back - I pass no judgements and only ask the same respect) - that they are doing it in solidarity with eachother (being that we are all against the same government of racist capitalist patriarchal homicidal murderers) - and that people are learning from the experience, expanding skills & knowledge, reaching new people through organizing.
Okay - enough on that
I wasnt wearing black at this demonstration - I am an anarchist and I have never directly participated in the black bloc. Go figure. This time, whatever... I didn't know anyone in the black bloc and they would just say I was a cop (which they did anyway). Just because you aren't in the black bloc doesn't mean you can be 'militant' whatever the fuck that means (as someone else pointed out earlier... it is pretty sad that largely middle class, mostly white kids seem to feel the need to define what radical is). I do see some usefulness in the black bloc tactic - but the last four large demonstrations I have been to in the last 4 years they have proved to be pretty poorly organized and largely ineffective. I have also been to a few where they were useful. Go figure.
In general, I feel like the bloc isnt 'tight' enough - i.e. made up of affinity groups that have previous relationships to eachother (and can thereby largely eliminate 'infiltration' and security issues), that have a pre-arranged purpose/function at the demonstration other than representing a loud anarchist presence, have worked out a way to communicate and maneuver tactically and make decisions on the fly. In my experience lately, the bloc is made up at the last minute of people who 'sort of' know eachother, dont have a lot of history working together - spend a lot of time worrying about security and infiltration - often isolate people who aren't infiltrators - and have no plan or decision making capability and therefore wind up marching along feeling stupid and being very reactionary to whatever the police are doing. My two cents on the bloc is: if you are going to do it, do it right or not at all - or at least just say publicly that you are only there to show a loud anarchist presence (like the banners with anarchist/working class slogans) and dont do the stupid militant posturing with nothing to back it up. It can wind up just being a good way to get arrested and have yourself put on a list.
My situation that day: I spraypainted the red zone in front of hollywood high school (no war, sin fronteras [no borders], against capital and no war again respectively) when I mistakenly didn't see police around. In reality I was watched and filmed by no less than four undercover cops who radioed me into the police units around the corner. I looked up after finishing and saw the camera and started to walk back into the crowd. Next time I looked over i saw bike cops rounding the corner... then they grabbed me in the middle of the crowd... I dropped my bag as my mask fell off... I was just behind the black bloc... people turned around and checked it out - someone had the sense at least to grab my fallen bag... stood there for a moment until I made eye contact and yelled in the confusion that he should please leave ('go!')... then I got dragged over out of the crowd after the cops waved around some batons and bikes... within minutes my bag with the spray cans was back in police custody... the undercovers had fallowed my would be saviour to the dumpster that he threw it into and fished it out after he walked away. (another comment on drawbacks of a disproportionately white/middle class militant bloc... we dont think enough about things like getting rid of evidence... only one person thought to grab my bag - and neither he nor I thought to take out the spraypaint and pass it off to others before ditching the bag - I can tell you almost anyone else I met in county jail would have - on the other hand, people of color dont often get mixed up in stupid displays like black blocs at a demonstration... if they get arrested for bogus shit they are going to do more time and probably have a list of priors simply due to racial profiling and bogus charges). So - thanks to califnornia voters, I get a felony vandalism charge ($500 dollars of vandalism = felony in california [prop 21?]).
Stupid I tell you. like monkey commented - 4am the night before is more effective for the kind of activity I got busted for - I was just in a space where I was again at a demo with a lot of people playing at being passive sheep (albeit at somethin like an anti-war/government march) with nothing to do... and all I had brought with me was a spraycan - I knew nobody there to watch my back - I wasn't thinking enough about undercovers - and I had this vague feeling that someone might wind up trying to watch my back if something happened. Not smart. Definitely people doing this should do it as an affinity group/crew - and probably not in the middle of a high profile demo with lots of cameras and cops everywhere to document the evidence.
In the context of monkey's comment on black blocs and L.A. demos - I would definately add that LAPD is pretty sophistacted about all of this (more so than at other big demonstrations I have been to). They have a very small police presence within sight of the demonstrators - a wide deployment of undercovers (definately not just near the black bloc) and have a light mobile unit to pull people out of the crowd (bike cops, always super trained in demo/riot stuff) and also APCs and cops in full riot gear in case things 'get out of hand' around the corner (seen as I was driven around to pick up other suspects and eventually to get to jail).
Oringally the black bloc developed in germany to counter police pinpointing and pulling demonstrators out of a protest for arrest - the Bloc held a militant perimiter around the march (using clubs and banners to create an actual continuous physical barrier to police walking into the crowd - and violently resisting police who tried to force their way in - demos in germany still use these tactics with or without black blocs). But then again that is germany and cops here can get away with a lot more (not that it should necessarily stop people here... it should just be recognized and anticipated). Also - militant demonstrations are much more accpted by the general public in Europe (and most everywhere else in the world for that matter) than in the U.S. - largely because militants have much wider popular base due ot other organizing efforts outside of militant demonstrations and because government propaganda isn't quite as overwhelming (a lot of places either have some degree of mainstreamed independent journalism or at the very least the politics are so stark that people know which side they are on no matter what the T.V. says). Okay one more thing on that... I can't remember the last time that militant demonstrators organized a demo that I went to (Seattle was organized by anarchists and a whole bunch of other people too - dont give it too much credit in the annals of anarchist success - at least decisions were made with a great deal of direct democracy however [an anarchist principle to be sure]). Militant anarchists definately have the skills to organize these events... but the truth is that I realy dont know a whole lot of them who are actually rooted in actual day to day organizing around regular people - and I know even fewer who can actually work with enough other militant anarchists on a regular basis to put together a really fucking good anarchist organized demonstration. Definately we all wind up helping out all over the place... but rarely together in an organized manner.
Okay okay, enough theory assing. I did five days for some stupid ass graffiti that didn't do more than a 4$ red spraycan could cover up and have a few misdemeanors on my record now. For those of you who routinely bring up arguments about how property damage ruins our reputation and fucks up the demonstration for everyone and breaks the law and gives a bad name to everyone else I have a couple quick remarks. first of all... can we please get over it. Yes I broke the law - no i didnt generate bad press... no one covered it but indymedia - bush breaks the law too and unlike him I didn't kill people... or hurt anyone as a matter of fact. (but anyway... whats really the problem of fighting back against your oppressors... and if you dont think the police represent the frontlines of state oppression - try getting arrested for something that will put you in county jail for a few days so you can see them kick mentally retarded people in the head - laugh as people have epileptic siezures because they are denied medication - beat the shit out of people for not walking close enough to the wall - pack you into a room with 400 people for the night where the ground is nothing but wall to wall bodies and people still cant sit down all night, plus rats crawling over you in the wee hours - steal all your shit - fail to release people for 45 days after they have been released by the court etc. etc. - if you dont think cops are the active agents of oppression you are most likely not a person of color... and although you cant ever experience that, maybe you can at least try seeing what it means to live poor and homeless for a bit and see how you get treated)
I was ineffective but so what - I was trying to do something and it was as legitimate a protest as holding a sign or following the ANSWER truck and doing call and response to their chants - we really really need to move on from these debates... both sides of this split... look we are all on the same fucking side - we have different political beliefs - we all believe in democracy (I assume? okay maybe not maoists/trotskyists and whatnot don't technically... but even ideologically they all buy into the concept). Why the fuck can't we just accept that different people are going to show resistance in different ways and really just grab onto the concept of AT LEAST THEY ARE EXPRESSING RESISTANCE. This is a good thing and instead of bickering to the point of inaction, we need to move past this crap and figure out ways to generate more of it.
People who don't agree with radical politics should still welcome a radical presence... at least it scares the conservatives into listening to more liberal voices (the relationship between malcolm X and MLK are really indicative of this point). 'Radical' voices expand the debate and the agenda of people working closer to the mainstream... at this point folks - we just need to move general consciousness to the left. You wont see me joining congress but I will advocate people slow down the machine a little by voting against the most explicit capitalist/racist/patriarchal interests while continuing to organize in the neighborhoods and streets for real liberation that can only really come when we free our minds and decide that we can be actors in this global drama continuously unfolding before us and portraying the struggle for human liberation from oppression and the survival of planetary ecosystems upon which we all depend.
If the black bloc is to be a popular representation or 'the core of the movement' it has to do at least a deacade or two of hard and committed work to earn people's grudging respect and link itself more explicitly with other popular struggles against oppression (read: build relationships with other groups) - and it should endeavor to do so in my opinion.
You 'radicals'... anarchists, militants whatever dont focus all that energy on demonstrations you know you are going to be disappointed at - break your windows as you pass stores in the night - do graffitti under the cover of darkness (like most everyone else) - be a little more diplomatic at demos in order to figure out what your role can be (not read: subject yourself to what other people want... but just feel out what your level of engagement is). At this point you are weak and they (the powers that be) are strong... like any good guerilla warrior, pick your battles and only fight the ones you will win - dont attack the 'enemy' in their position of strenght (read: dont go to new york this summer and expect to street fight the 35,000 cops and $65 million security budget and have any serious results in advancing the 'struggle'). In my opinion, demonstrations are little more than a reflection of organizing already done - it is not the point of 'revolution' it will not spontaneously energize the 'masses' into revolt - nothing does that but long term dedicated, passionate, real, organizing with regular people in their day to day struggles for survival... without it no revolution has ever been successful (really... even ones that won by force of arms had to win a popular base through progressive social programs - and often they just hijacked the revolution anyways). Anarchists have to do a lot more work to set up real infrastructure if they want to be a dynamic and vibrant movement in this country (as opposed to a psuedo punk-rock ghetto subculture). In this regard - something like a food not bombs serving is a lot farther towards real social change than marching down the street. (dont get me wrong... I have issues there as well... maybe some other time).
blah blah blah - sorry for the novel, sometimes I take myself too seriously and I think I just had to vent after that fucking wierd ass california jail experience.
thanks to the 16 year old kid in black who bothered to post about me and the other kids who got arrested. I never saw the spiderweb tattoos kid in jail after I saw you brought in... but he was getting booked with me (also for felony vandalism) - and the girl was there as well, she was in a holding cell when you were brought in and taken to the juvie section... I never saw the older guy who was arrested again either, but he was arrested on hearsay from a counter-demonstrator who said that he spit upon her - assault with a biological agent I believe the charge was... to my knowledge that was all of the arrests. I hope all went well with you... again many thanks - also thanks monkey for being the one person I knew at the demo who could vouche for me... i tried yelling to you as you walked by as I was being detained but you didn't hear....
peace (impossiblewithoutjustice)
Emmett
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by Against
Thursday, Mar. 25, 2004 at 4:08 PM
The Bloc kids who I saw when the guy and girl got arrested were all between 14-16 years old. No way any of those kids are doing work in South America. Look, if you want to be anarchist, be anarchist, but by dressing like a bunch of conformists you're only making yourselveves look foolish. Stay in school and learn something and become an educated anarchist. Contribute to the system in order to change it.
And don't smoke weed before or during protests. The biggest weapon against the war on drugs is sobriety.
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by astrid the proll
Thursday, Mar. 25, 2004 at 11:45 PM
Anarchists dont want to change the system, they want it abolished... and i am in school right now and i havent really heard any decent advice on how to live freely with an equal anarchist society or how to put direct democracy in action. I hear boring shit about flowers and math and pearl harbor though. Having your enemy teach you what they want to teach you will not help you get rid of them.
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by @
Thursday, Mar. 25, 2004 at 11:55 PM
we need to all get together, we have so much to figure out.
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by ...sous les pavés, la plage.
Friday, Mar. 26, 2004 at 3:03 PM
Well, i'm a sort of anarchist, and I do think the whole black bloc can be of use, but it has reached a sort of fetishized level in that some folks think it's the only way to react to «the system.» Surely there are other ways, that are even MORE disruptive and not as tactically dangerous.
And to claim that the black bloc is purely middle-class and white pisses me off, a chicano/working-class guy. It totally negates the existence of those of who may align with anarchism and just because we don't fit into the cookie-cutter shapes that may be found in other parts of the «anarchist» movement. This also negates the fact that anarchism, although not necessarily using that name, has had an impact throughout Latin America, be it México, or Argentina, or any other place.
Yes, a good chunk of «anarchist» thought comes from old, dead «white» guys...but the idea of a decentralized way of life stems back throughout the history of practically all societies.
I think some «anarchist» types get so caught up in being «more militant than thou» that they forget that direct action should be EFFECTIVE, hence it's name, and not just a replay of past events that don't work.
But nonetheless it was nice to see all them folks out there in a place where most think of L.A. as being this sort of haven for complacent folks. Although I'm still grappling with possible «situations» to disrupt things directly....but marching in the streets is always a fun thing.
- sous les pavés, la plage.
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by mnbv
Friday, Mar. 26, 2004 at 7:05 PM
i agree with @
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by @
Friday, Mar. 26, 2004 at 11:12 PM
we did no breakaway as a tactical decision. and to green mask, no one said you were a cop cause you didnt dress the part, i was in plain clothes with no mask and everyone was down with me. we thought that some the the circumstances were sketchy thats all, i dont think any onse has stated an absolute that would be foolish. i warned the guy/girl arrest before that cops were after them and tried to get them to change clothes, they COMPLETELY ignroed my warnings and got arrested, so i hope you can understand out sketchyness, out of the WHOLE demo the 3-4 times they arrested.tried to arrest people was within feet of the BB.
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by <@3
Saturday, Mar. 27, 2004 at 1:31 AM
OK, so after the march on saturday there were 2 different meetings, and a good number of folks at each one, as well as everyone posting on here. So we need to get together! Some of us have proposed a date in Mid April for a regional meeting (probably in LA) of anarchist to talk about setting solid long term goals and doing embedded community activism. A site has been thrown together with a little info.. keep in mind it is all a rough draft that needs imput. Check it out at: http://www.ocproject.org/scan/ If anyone can help with the site code that would be cool. And spread the word about the meeting and such. <3
www.ocproject.org/scan/
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by systemfailure
Saturday, Mar. 27, 2004 at 2:42 AM
The movement is growing. One day we will be able to respond in force. BB uses guerilla tactics. "It is stupid to engage the enemy if outnumbered and defeat is assured" Also check a similar quote in "the art of war". The bloc remained a presence, it remained a reminder of what is to come. We are a black bloc of One.
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by e
Saturday, Mar. 27, 2004 at 1:08 PM
All i want to say, again, is that all of you fairweather revolutionists who are bent on cop-baiting without a shred of info should realize that such allegations, historically, have been employed by the state in order to split the revolutionary left, anarchists, whatever. In Europe, in Asia, in the States; pre-WWII, COINTELPRO, post-9/11. It is NOT something to toss about in such a horrendously misinformed, LIGHTMINDED FASHION. Again, I am close on a personal basis to two out of the four (or more?) who were arrested... and we have to more arrestees who've informed us on the BBS. So thanks for your warnings, cop-baiters, i hope you feel that you've done us an important service by "exposing" the "Fake arrests" and sowing illusions among the gullible/paranoid millieu of our movement.
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by ...
Sunday, Mar. 28, 2004 at 10:16 AM
The majority of the Black Bloc was mexican kids ...
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by more rational
Tuesday, Mar. 30, 2004 at 1:50 PM
People say around half the anarchists in LA are people of color, and those are mostly mexican americans. There are a lot of mixed people. I've only known this scene since the mid 90s, but, it seemed to be the same back then too.
This whole anarchists=whites-with-dreads thing didn't seem to apply in LA. I've heard some complaints that @ism in LA is "behind" being on top of the cool stuff that's happening with @ism nationally, but, the new "in" thing is anarchist people of color, and there's been anarchist people of color in LA for a long time. There aren't that may black anarchists in LA though; however Sherman Austin, LA's most prominent, is biracial.
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by OzzyO
Wednesday, Apr. 07, 2004 at 11:28 AM
In the 60's and 70's they assasinated the leaders of movement (G Jackson, Fred Hampton, Mark Clark, etc) and gunned down demonstrators (Jackson and Kent State's) so they can, have and will sink as low as you can go.
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