In spite of all the rhetoric by Israel and by the wealthy "Pro Israel" American lobby - Israel still has no intrinsic "right" to exist!

The present State of Israel was set up in 1948 by European bureaucrats in a misguided and very short sighted attempt to appease and somehow compensate European Jews or Hitler's atrocities.Rather than return these Jews to the cities and villages they were disposessed from by the Nazis,and compensate them for their losses - European Governments had a better idea - lets just ship them all off to Palestine where we'll "expropiate" the land from the indigenous Palestinians and call it the new "Jewish Homeland"!

The European politicians liked it and so apparently did the Jews but the only hitch in the scheme was that the native Palestinians,who weren't allowed to have any say in the plan, didn't like having their "Homeland" expropiated by unilateral and heavy-handed European "Decree".

Israeli politicians declare that Israel is a "Jewish State" and that its "right to exist" in Palestine is "legitimized" by the magical "Hocus Pocus of the Old Testament bible.In that case Christians and especially the world's 600 million Catholics also have a right to create "Homelands" in Palestine (including the entire State of Israel) as it is the land and birthplace of Jesus. (Incidentially Jesus was a Semetic ARAB, just like like the founders of Judaism were!!!!)

How well does International Law recognize the "Old Testament" or Bethlehem as the "birthplace of Jesus" as being a "legitimate claim" by any "religious group" on the "ownership" of the land of Palestine?

In North America the Native Indians in Canada and the U.S. have brought to court their legitimate "Land Claims" and they have won their cases in court on the basis that "they were here first"! The Palestinians can make the same legitimate claim - they were in Palestine and all the areas now claimed by Israel tens of thousands of years before there was a Jewish or Christian or Muslim religion.The claim of the Israeli Govt. to the land of Palestine by any standards of law is illegitimate.

Not only that but the Israeli govt. is bringing in "Caucasian" Jews from Russia;Europe and North America to settle on Palestinian land while at the same time they're forcing the indigenous "Semetic" Palestinians out and are bulldozing their homes!

Theres an easy solution to the Israel-Palestinian debate to determine who really "historically" belongs there.Lets have all the people of Israel and the West Bank etc. have a simple "blood test".From this it can easily be determined by "DNA" analysis who are the pure blooded (Semetic Arab) natives who are historically "indigenous" to that desert region and who are not!



"It is impossible to calculate the moral mischief,if I may so express it,that mental lying has produced in Society.When a man has so corrupted and prostituted the chastity of his mind as to subscribe his professional belief to things he does not believe,he has prepared himself for the commission of every other crime!"

- Thomas Paine (The Age of Reason)

First of all, you don't know history. I dont blame you because schools suck nowadays.

The modern State of Israel as you describe it was actually begun by the Balfour declaration. You see little genius, The British controlled Israel long before the forties. In that time, there were approximately 50,000 Jews there and another 3 million or so throughout the Arab world. These people, who can be archaeologically proven to have deep ancestral roots in Israel, and Cultural ones, which the Palestinians (actually Roman migrant workers,) had no such thing.

The Balfour declaration didn't just give the Jews Israel, it gave them the West Bank, and Gaza. This was in 1917, a part of history you forgot in your little ignorant speech.

Nevertheless, the jews were happy with the green line until they were attacked by Egypt and friends in 67.

At that time, with little help from the U.S. except political tactics against the Soviets who wanted to help Egypt, The small nation of wily Jews kicked some Arab ass.

Long story short, the migrant workers, who in all actuality only had about 500 years of solid history as a people in Palestine(which by the way is a euphemism for phillistine which is a derogatory term made by the Brits) mostlyran away cause they were scared.

In the mean time, the sweet heart regimes in most Muslim countries began killing and expelling their Jews. In Iran, Jews had existed for five thousand years(and when I write numbers I can back them up stupid.)

Approximately 1 Million Iranian Jews instantly became refugees with nowhere to go but Israel.

Israel took in the Jews from Morocco, Iran, Ethiopia and the Soviet Union where I am from.

The colors on Israeli faces are much more diverse than even here in America.

But you wouldn't know, hell you don't care, you can't even read a real history book. You probably think The Protocols is a true story.

Also during this time, the Arabs began turning away their own refugees. You see the kindhearted Muslims in Iraq, where they could have absorbed most of them, didn't want much to do with them, and resented even the special programs that Hussein set up to give Palestinians free things.

Still, the Jews kept taking refugees from all over the world. While other Arab countries used the Palestinians as pawns in Oil wars and used their food donations to buy arms to kill Jews.

Next time you battle, come prepared, because I will not allow Indymedia to become a site where lies are spread about the exact nature of the Palestinian conflict, you're a fucking uneducated phillistine for sure.

Excellent post above. I will add a couple of things for our unlearned poster. Before 1948, the adjective "Palestinian" referred to the JEWS who lived in the British Mandate of Palestine. The present newspaper Jerusalem Post was called the Palestine Post. There are many, many eye witness accounts of people who traveled through the region, from 1750 until 1930, and there were no more than a tiny handful of Arab villages there at the time. The vast majority of Palestinian Arabs have no long history in the region, but rather migrated there when the Jews made the area prosper. Sorry, I know it hurts to have your bubble burst, but sometimes you just can't hide from the truth. So many people out there, especially on this site, are abysmally ignorant of history. Fortunately, many of us who respond like this are not. You can make up all the history you want but it does NOT change the truth. Learn, please.

If we follow the author's logic, then the United States of America has "No Right" to exist either.

So when do you think we will pack our bags and leave the North American continent for the Native Americans to resettle?

I agree with comment about America not existing.

Israel DOES exist and it is not going to disappear.

Israel must obey International and Humanitarian Laws AND would do better in the eyes of the world to learn to R-E-S-P-E-C-T the other inhabitants of the land.

It wouldn't hurt for Israel to understand that the word "democracy" means "rights" not just a "vote"

Israel treats Bedouins like they do not belong there.

Israel practices racism against Arab-Israelis.

ALL countries investigate and join together and enforce HUMAN RIGHTS laws and INTERNATIONAL laws; economically the world should demand israel behave in a civilized way .

Justice For Palestine!

End the Occupation!

(Note: Hysterical,vitriolic ravings do not constitute or qualify as either evidence or logical argument!)

The Iindigenous Arab (Senmetic) inhabitants of Palestine (Israel) existed there tens of thousands of years before there ever was a monotheistic religion such as Judaism! Thems the real facts Jack!!! This is uncontestable!

Also the State of Israel makes its "claim" - its right to exist, based on some magical Hocus Pocus nonsense called the Old Testament! What a pile of crap! No court in the world would accept that as any kind of evidence of anything but self serving "Bible Babble!" Again if the Jews can claim Israel as their Relgious Homeland based on mythical "Bible Babble" then so can the world's Christians including its 600 million Catholics!

Promoting Israel as a "Jewish Homeland" is also unimpeachable and damning evidence of the egotistical motives and self centered nature of of the State of Israel,which is really nohing more than an Elitist,Self Serving and Bigoted "Religion Club"!

The "Illegal" establishment of the State of Israel has created nothing but rancor; ill will;bloodshed and continual warfare all through the Middle East! Pro-Israel Jews have corrupted and hi-jacked the American Govt. and the U.S.Military to do Israel's dirty work in fomenting war on its neighbouring Arab countries.The heinously corrupt government of Israel is now a threat to the peace and safety of the entire worldI!

It and the State of Israel should be dissolved!

“State of Israel makes its "claim" - its right to exist, based on some magical Hocus Pocus nonsense called the Old Testament What a pile of crap! No court in the world would accept that…”

Actually, Jews do have a historical claim that is acceptable both legally and archaeologically. Judaism grew out of pagan Levant culture and was practiced by Levantines.

The Jews are Semites and an indigenous people in the area. They are North Western Semites who originally occupied the Levant. Archaeologists and historians commonly refer to the pre-1200 or 1000 B.C.E. Levantines as Canaanites and their descendants, who left the Bronze Age for the iron, as Phoenicians.

The Levantines weren’t Muslims. They were Jews, Christians and Pagans. The Muslims didn’t start to colonize that area until circa 700 AD. The territory remained under Islamic occupation until 1917 when the British captured the region from the Ottomans and called it Palestine, after the Roman name for the area.

Today, many Arabs, especially Palestinians, look back at the peoples in this land over the last millennium and hold them to be an indigenous Palestinian nation. Many historians disagree with this assessment, regarding it as a historical anachronism.

This notion of an Islamic indigene originates in Arab nationalism and derives from two schools of thought. The first is manifest destiny which states that god gave us this land therefore we are the only “true” inhabitants of this land thus we are the indigenous people. The second notion is that indigenous inhabitants converted to Islam.

I hope I won’t have to argue any further than to state simply that manifest destiny isn’t a valid argument. But, when we look at the conversion of the indigenous population to Islam there is a basis for this argument as there was a forced conversion of some Jews, Christians, and pagans (It’s important to note that the pagans also converted to Judaism and Christianity). However, there still remains a substantial number of Muslims that arrived through colonization. As you can see, like most situation, issue aren’t conveniently black and white for us.

The Palestinians, as we know them today, in fact, didn’t exist eons before the Jewish religion. The term Palestine originates with the Philistines, who inhabited the southern coast of the region. It fell into disuse with the disappearance of the Philistines c. 1000 B.C., but was reintroduced by the Romans following the Second Jewish Revolt ("Great Revolt") of Bar Kokhba of 132-135 A.D in the province of Judea. Historically, there was a clear distinction between Philistine and Judean territories; however, the Romans adopted the name for the province in an effort to erase any memories of the Judean rebels they defeated.

The term originally referred to the Jewish/pagan population eons before the Islamic invasion of the area. The term Palestinian has nothing to do with the people calling themselves Palestinians today. The term only started to include Muslims in the mid 20th century as a result of the rise Arab nationalism.

“State of Israel makes its "claim" - its right to exist, based on some magical Hocus Pocus nonsense called the Old Testament What a pile of crap! No court in the world would accept that…”

Actually, Jews do have a historical claim that is acceptable both legally and archaeologically. Judaism grew out of pagan Levant culture and was practiced by Levantines.

The Jews are Semites and an indigenous people in the area. They are North Western Semites who originally occupied the Levant. Archaeologists and historians commonly refer to the pre-1200 or 1000 B.C.E. Levantines as Canaanites and their descendants, who left the Bronze Age for the iron, as Phoenicians.

The Levantines weren’t Muslims. They were Jews, Christians and Pagans. The Muslims didn’t start to colonize that area until circa 700 AD. The territory remained under Islamic occupation until 1917 when the British captured the region from the Ottomans and called it Palestine, after the Roman name for the area.

Today, many Arabs, especially Palestinians, look back at the peoples in this land over the last millennium and hold them to be an indigenous Palestinian nation. Many historians disagree with this assessment, regarding it as a historical anachronism.

This notion of an Islamic indigene originates in Arab nationalism and derives from two schools of thought. The first is manifest destiny which states that god gave us this land therefore we are the only “true” inhabitants of this land thus we are the indigenous people. The second notion is that indigenous inhabitants converted to Islam.

I hope I won’t have to argue any further than to state simply that manifest destiny isn’t a valid argument. But, when we look at the conversion of the indigenous population to Islam there is a basis for this argument as there was a forced conversion of some Jews, Christians, and pagans (It’s important to note that the pagans also converted to Judaism and Christianity). However, there still remains a substantial number of Muslims that arrived through colonization. As you can see, like most situation, issue aren’t conveniently black and white for us.

The Palestinians, as we know them today, in fact, didn’t exist eons before the Jewish religion. The term Palestine originates with the Philistines, who inhabited the southern coast of the region. It fell into disuse with the disappearance of the Philistines c. 1000 B.C., but was reintroduced by the Romans following the Second Jewish Revolt ("Great Revolt") of Bar Kokhba of 132-135 A.D in the province of Judea. Historically, there was a clear distinction between Philistine and Judean territories; however, the Romans adopted the name for the province in an effort to erase any memories of the Judean rebels they defeated.

The term originally referred to the Jewish/pagan population eons before the Islamic invasion of the area. The term Palestinian has nothing to do with the people calling themselves Palestinians today. The term only started to include Muslims in the mid 20th century as a result of the rise Arab nationalism.

Canadian Muslim Threatened for Saying Israel Has Right to Exist

Posted by Dr. Steven Plaut

Saturday, January 03, 2004



It seems terribly important to recognize fundamentally different perspectives as we all go about expressing our differing opinions. In other words, what factors are preventing a real exchange of thought? In that vein, the intolerance of the left for the opinion of those who disagree with them is becoming old news. The general lack of tolerance exhibited by radical Muslims to ''others'' is even more persistent. Below is a prime example. This story, written by Michael Freund in the Jerusalem Post, tells of the threats made to a Canadian Muslim who thinks that Israel has a right to exist.

A devout Muslim college student in Canada known for her pro-Israel views on campus has received death threats after expressing support for the Jewish state's right to exist.

''As a result of my pro-Israel views, I have received a lot of verbal assault, and a few threats to my life,'' Sarah Nasser, a third-year student at the University of Toronto, told The Jerusalem Post.

''I received some violent resentment from the pro-Palestinian left-wing majority on campus. Most of my Muslim friends do not respect my views,'' she said.

Born in Canada to parents who migrated from Tanzania, Nasser is a religious Muslim who covers her head with a veil and lives according to the rules of the Koran. She recently returned from a visit to Israel, and signed a petition to the United Nations denouncing suicide bombings.

''Being a supporter of the existence of Israel does not conflict with Islam, it complements Islam,'' she said. ''The Koran does not have any verses that do not allow for the Jews to return to the Land of Israel.'' Nasser says that the North American media fails to portray the ''severity'' of the Palestinian uprising, and says that the armed uprising is proof that ''Yasser Arafat and his followers will do whatever it takes and cause as much bloodshed as is necessary to overtake all of Israel.''

Active in campus political groups, Nasser urges the Jewish State to do more to improve its image abroad, saying that pro-Israel Muslims should be brought here to ''show them what Israel is like, and to equip them with the knowledge to speak out in their communities about how sweet a country Israel is.''

''I love Jews as I love true Muslims,'' she said. ''Therefore, I believe Jews should have a right to live legitimately in their homeland.''