Thu 23 Oct 2003

3:36am (UK)

Ship Attack: President ‘Ordered Accident Verdict’

"PA"

A former US Navy lawyer who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 servicemen says former president Lyndon Johnson and his defence secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude that it was an accident.

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt Ward Boston said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy’s inquiry to ”conclude that the attack was a case of ‘mistaken identity’ despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary”.

Boston was senior legal counsel to the Navy’s original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he was a military man, and “when orders come ... I follow them”.

But he said he felt compelled to “share the truth” following the publication of a recent book, The Liberty Incident, which concluded the attack was unintentional.

The USS Liberty was an electronic intelligence-gathering ship cruising international waters off the Egyptian coast on June 8, 1967. Israeli planes and torpedo boats opened fire on the Liberty at the outbreak of the Israeli-Egyptian Six-Day War.

In addition to the 34 Americans killed, more than 170 were wounded.

Israel has long maintained that the attack was a case of mistaken identity, an explanation that the Johnson administration did not formally challenge. Israel claimed its forces thought the ship was an Egyptian vessel and apologised to the United States.

After the attack, a Navy court of inquiry concluded there was insufficient information to make a judgment about why Israel attacked the ship, stopping short of assigning blame or determining whether it was an accident.

It was “one of the classic all-American cover-ups,” said retired Admiral Thomas Moorer, a former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman who spent a year investigating the attack as part of an independent panel he formed with other former military officials. The panel also included a former US ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins.

“Why would our government put Israel’s interests ahead of our own?” Moorer asked from his wheelchair at the news conference. He was chief of naval operations at the time of the attack.

Moorer, who has long held that the attack was a deliberate act, wants Congress to investigate.

Israeli Embassy spokesman Mark Regev disputed any notion that Israel knowingly went after American sailors.

“I can say unequivocally that the Liberty tragedy was a terrible accident, that the Israeli pilots involved believed they were attacking an enemy ship,” Regev said. ”This was in the middle of a war. This is something that we are not proud of.”

In Boston’s statement, he does not say why Johnson would have ordered a cover-up. Attempts were made to reach Boston at his home in Coronado, California, but he did not return calls.

Moorer’s panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a US ship. Among them was that Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.

Latest News:

  http://www.news.scotsman.com/latest.cfm

http://www.ussliberty.org/

http://ussliberty.org/files.htm

This picture shows that the flag is visible (this is another ship that's much like the USS Liberty, they all have flags like this but the Liberty flag was actually BIGGER than this at the time.)

Here's the audio of a TV show of the actual crew of the USS Liberty saying in thier own words what happened and note the multible references to the large AMERICAN FLAG plus the huge letters USS LIBERTY on the sides of the ship.

Listening to the crewmen there's absolutely no question the the israeli pilots knew they were americans, matter of fact one of the pilots EVEN WAVED to them and they waved back - they where THAT close !

They jammed ONLY US Navy frequencies which are *internationally allocated* - this means no other country would be on those channels so there would have been no reason to jam them UNLESS they were TRYING to jam the US NAVY.



Streaming MP3PRO at 20.kbs, use a PRO player or winamp plug-in available for free here ;

http://www.mp3prozone.com/assets/mp3PROAudioDecoder.exe

for the best sound quality but will stream/play in any MP3 player as well, this is a winamp 2 (not 3) plug-in, a PRO player and encoder are also available there too..

This is the entire show and gives the radio traffic as well where the israeli pilots SAID it was american and israeli command then said "you have your orders"..

I highly recommend you listen to this, plus check out thos links above - they show more pictures and long lists of crewmen and other's in the military ALL saying for sure it was intentional, the web site is an excellent "from the horses mouth" collection of all the facts they could gather together to prove it after the years of denial and LIES by israel

KOBE would not have posted that!

Good show.

http://clients.loudeye.com/imc/mayday/uss_liberty.mp3

Once you've listened to that if you like here's almost 10 hours of music the entire time-life 60's gold collection with songs from the 70's included

http://clients.loudeye.com/imc/mayday/tlgm32_mp3pro20cbr_.mp3

remember this is a PRO file and only sounds decent when played by a PRO player or plug-in as noted above, otherwise it sounds rather crappy but still listenable (standard low BW stream - the sound quality doubles when played PRO though)

I recommend you download it with a download manager and either play it as it's downloading or play afterward, but this way you can *keep it*, it's as small as it can be to have all the songs (174) it does and still sound decent (as PRO)

I also upload large blocks of music I've produced (EQ'ed, normalized, removed silence, carefully encoded) myself.

We use these blocks for 24/7 music service (in this case in Quicktime MP4 format at 40. or 48.kbps 32.KHz mono for TV/FM mono sound) that an older computer is able to play without skipping..

I am totally opposite of everything kobe is and stands for, all you ever had to do was punch in "hex anon" into the global IMC search box and see thousands of my posts going back years - there's no way kobe could pull that off !

hahaha you recall fresca denied all this evidence about the USS Liberty..

let's see what he has to say now (if anything)

"hahaha you recall fresca denied all this evidence about the USS Liberty.. "



The ONLY eveidence that isn't opinion or hearsay is the official pilot tapes which prove over and over again that the pilots did not know the nationality of the ship until after the attack.

Face it, you're beat.

I don't care one way or the other. But facts are facts and your obsession with trying to rewrite history is rather curious.

Perhaps a bone to pick with the Jews?

One final Yawn on this entire non issue and mountain of nonrefutable proof.

And, before you get all excited with your, "fresca believes the NSA!" mantra, save your breath. The tapes are the tapes. No one on even your side has suggested that they aren't accurate.

Perhaps you'd care to join the Chemtrails "debate". I think this one has fairly crushed you but sheepers can use all the crazy talkin' help he can get.

And by the way, next time you need some "evidence" I suggest you don't stop at the first block of personal typing you find on the net.

1. The Attacking Jets had had all there identifying markings removed.

Why would they do that to attack an Egyptian Ship?

2. I think the Attorney who was there is a bit more than fresca.

This USS Liberty thing keeps coming up. Who cares?? I agree with fresca on this, the evidence is overwhelming in that direction, but the US and Israeli gov'ts have put this to bed years ago and no one, especially no one on an Indymedia site, is going to resurrect it. It's done. Gone. Adios. Bye-Bye. Caio.

Put to bed.

Now we forgive and forget. How sweet. Our servicemen. Their blood.

Two faced bastard.

I guess the term "friendly-fire" really pisses you off.

And yes, it is put to bed. You can't do anything about it............except sulk.

Two faced bastard.

> The ONLY eveidence that isn't opinion or hearsay is the official pilot tapes which prove over and over again that the pilots did not know the nationality of the ship until after the attack.



The tapes were ordered destroyed. I guess you missed that part..

All the NSA released were transcripts.

This story has went mainstream. And more crewmen and NSA agents are coming forward to correct the lies and show the truth.

But don't let that break your perfect record of denial at all costs.





> The tapes are the tapes. No one on even your side has suggested that they aren't accurate.



Again you haven't been reading lately - not only are there no tapes because of being destroyed but the crewmen and NSA agents are saying EXACTLY THAT - the "evidence" is FALSE, they were ordered to keep thier mouths shut under pain of treason and Johnson ordered it called an "accident" even though *all the evidence absolutely proves it was intentional*

But a single LGF denialist troll doesn't mean much when this story is going mainstream world-wide with the actual crewmen and people who where actually there flatly calling you a liar.

Besides which you "sort of" admitted it already "culpible" then retracted that position in true deny all all cost troll style.

Take a look on yahoo and see the 3 or 4 stories AGAINST israel - the mass media *is turning against israel* and it's about time !

Millions of people all over the world are starting to see *and be shown* the truth that israel is NOT our friend, that it's leadership is NOT on our side or trying to help us as they constantly lie they are.

Liars (denialists are liars too - this means you) can only lie so long or so much, before the lies come home to roost, then the whole house of lies starts collapsing.

Once the mainstream media turns against you it's all over.

So it's not about denying what a handful of people say anymore, it's now a worldwide expose' in the making.

No lie, no distraction can alter this course.

When I saw yahoo I was surprised to see - finally - the tide has turned and israel's grip of control over american media is unraveling.

So really it matters not what you are denying today as millions are being shown the TRUTH and there's nothing you can do about it.

The mass media has grown some balls. Israel's lying days are over and so are yours.

LGF's damage control trolls must be frantic to see all thier lies unraveling on a mass world-wide scale and no e-mails to google can stop it this time.



To IMC partons ;

Fresca is one of the worst trolls ever to abuse IMC's newswire.

What sets him apart from the usual garden varity troll is his constant pathological denial at all costs.

Any proof, any FOIA documents, photographs, backed by video even, eyewitness accounts, interviews, expert testimony - no matter what is presented - he always ALWAYS denies all.

This is simply a game to him - truth means nothing, that word has no meaning to him because he's never seen or used it.

It's only a word to be batted around in word games to decieve people into accepting his LIES. He is a total time sink and nothing more.

He's an unwelcome troll as well either banned already or well on the way (it's hard to tell since he switches handles and IP's to fool people). He's not banned for no reason either, IMC staff are fed up with his constant lies and distractions. There's no need and no point in engaging him in discussion, as all you will get for your trouble is denial - no matter what proof you show him.

(he claimed the Jews against zionists photographs I posted were fake too, even though I posted the URL's to see them for yourself, even with live video footage of the exact same scene - he never did come up with a denial for that one - simply *ignored it* then implied I was still lying about the photographs even WITH the video)

HE's simply a compulsive liar in the service of LGF, here only to lie, deny, disrupt and distract.

They have conversations where they talk about doing exactly this - being as disruptive as possible in any way or means possible...

If all he can do is constantly deny/lie then he'll do it because even that distraction serves thier agenda of trying to prevent THE TRUTH from being known when the truth exposes israel's crimes.

That's his only purpose - to keep the truth from getting out about israel because once people know the truth they turn against israel...

Since he supports israel no matter what they do (israel can do no wrong) any lie, any denial it takes to prevent the truth from seeing the light of day is perfectly fine - as long as it's on israel's behalf.

That's his agenda and the reason why he's here.

The EV on this thread is fair. Seen this topic before. Juice it up some. You may have something here worth laughing at yet.

God I love it when I get hex so worked up!

First of all, what the hell is LGF?

Secondly, I truly appreciate the flattery that you give me everytime you claim that I must be working for some agency. I must truly annoy you.

Thirdly, when you have any proof that the tapes or the transcripts are phony I'll gladly accept the. Again, i couldn't care less whether Israel is guilty or not. Water under the bridge. But as that proof has never materialized, I, as a NON CONSPIRACY ADDLED person must accept the evidence at hand.



Feel free to deny this eveidence and cling to your obsessions.

Who knows, maybe your right. If so, you've gotten lucky as you've yet to give any proof. For instance, you now cling to this Johnson order. Let's suppose it was true, that he wanted the verdict to be accidental. How does that in any way prove the contrary.

It doesn't.

I'll just keep picking away at you while you fools elevate me to Minister of Information status.

New Charges Against Israel For Deadly Attack On U.S. Ship

United Press International (UPI)

WASHINGTON, Oct. 22 (UPI) -- A private commission investigating the 1967 attack on the U.S. spy ship USS Liberty on Wednesday released the sworn testimony of one naval investigator that the Israelis knew the ship was American and intended to "murder its entire crew."

Israeli aircraft and torpedo boats attacked the USS Liberty on June 8, 1967, killing 34 U.S. sailors and injuring 172 others in one of the deadliest attacks suffered by a U.S. ship that remained afloat.

The Israeli government claimed it was a case of "mistaken identity" and that their pilots were gunning for a 1937-era Egyptian freighter, but this claim set off a 36-year controversy between the two countries. Both U.S. and Israel groups have investigated the attack over the years, but the issue has never been settled.

Coming now, the evidence becomes part of a controversy over Israelis influence in Washington and whether it has tilted the Bush administration toward Jerusalem.

A private commission headed by a former chief of naval operations, retired Adm. Thomas H. Moorer, made public an affidavit by retired Capt. Ward Boston, formerly of the judge advocate general's office and one of two senior naval officials investigating the attack.

"The evidence was clear. Both Admiral (Isaac) Kidd and I believed with certainty that this attack, which killed 34 America sailors and injured 172 others, was a deliberate effort to sink an American ship and murder its entire crew. I am certain that the Israeli pilots that undertook the attack as well as their superiors who had ordered the attack, were aware the ship was American."

Though Boston had made these charges informally, this was the first time a sworn affidavit supported them. Boston said he had been a serving naval officer and followed orders keeping quiet about his knowledge for 36 years. "I am outraged at the efforts of apologists for Israel in this country to claim this attack was a case of 'mistaken identity,'" he wrote. "In particular, the recent publication of Jay Cristol's book, the 'Liberty Incident,' twists the facts and misrepresents the views of those of us who investigated the attack. It is Cristol's insidious attempt to whitewash the facts that has pushed me to speak out." Cristol, a retired Navy pilot and member of judge advocate's office, published a book in 2002 that found the attack was accidental.

Boston said "I saw the flag, which visibly identified the ship as American, riddled with bullet holes, and heard testimony that made it clear the Israelis intended there be no survivors."

With the help of Rep. John Conyers, D-Mich., the private commission arranged a news conference in the Rayburn House Office building. Moorer said the group wants the official naval report rescinded and a new court of inquiry convened and investigations launched by appropriate Capitol Hill committees.

The first court of inquiry was ordered by Adm. John S. McCain Jr. -- father of Sen. John McCain, R-Ariz. -- who was then commanding in London and over the vessels in the Mediterranean. Kidd and Boston conducted the inquiry in Malta where the Liberty had been taken for repairs and care of the wounded. Though they both agreed the attack was intentional, Kidd prepared a report that went with the Israeli version. "I know from personal conversations I had with Admiral Kidd that President Lyndon Johnson and Secretary of Defense (Robert) McNamara ordered him to conclude the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity,'" Boston's affidavit said.

There are numerous discrepancies between the Israeli version and the U.S. sailors' report. The U.S. sailors reported they were under aerial surveillance by Israeli planes for hours before the attack and were flying the American flag. They said they were hit by aircraft, torpedoed and strafed by fast-moving surface vessels. The Israelis said only aircraft were used in the attack. The sailors said that when they tried to launch lifeboats to secure the wounded the torpedo boats strafed and sank them. They reported that the Israelis jammed the radio so they couldn't call for help, but later when American aircraft were launched to help, they were recalled. Moorer said he has interviewed officers on the USS Saratoga, where the planes were based, who said the White House ordered them to abandon the rescue.

The Liberty was a World War II freighter converted to the role of a spy ship that the Navy said was very distinctive with massive aerials and satellite dishes. These spy vessels and spy flights later were replaced by satellite surveillance.

Why the Israelis would want to attack an American vessel has never been explained, but the incident came a few months before the 1967 Middle East war in which Egypt and Israel were adversaries.





Former Navy Attorney Signs Affadavit Saying USS Liberty Attack Was Intentional

Associated Press



WASHINGTON (AP) - A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

In a signed affidavit released at a Capitol Hill news conference, retired Capt. Ward Boston said Johnson and McNamara told those heading the Navy's inquiry to ``conclude that the attack was a case of 'mistaken identity' despite overwhelming evidence to the contrary.''

Boston was senior legal counsel to the Navy's original 1967 review of the attack. He said in the sworn statement that he stayed silent for years because he's a military man, and ``when orders come ... I follow them.''

He said he felt compelled to ``share the truth'' following the publication of a recent book, ``The Liberty Incident,'' which concluded the attack was unintentional.

The USS Liberty was an electronic intelligence-gathering ship that was cruising international waters off the Egyptian coast on June 8, 1967. Israeli planes and torpedo boats opened fire on the Liberty in the midst of what became known as the Israeli-Arab Six-Day War.

In addition to the 34 Americans killed, more than 170 were wounded.

Israel has long maintained that the attack was a case of mistaken identity, an explanation that the Johnson administration did not formally challenge. Israel claimed its forces thought the ship was an Egyptian vessel and apologized to the United States.

After the attack, a Navy court of inquiry concluded there was insufficient information to make a judgment about why Israel attacked the ship, stopping short of assigning blame or determining whether it was an accident.

It was ``one of the classic all-American cover-ups,'' said Ret. Adm. Thomas Moorer, a former Joint Chiefs of Staff chairman who spent a year investigating the attack as part of an independent panel he formed with other former military officials. The panel also included a former U.S. ambassador to Saudi Arabia, James Akins.

``Why in the world would our government put Israel's interest ahead of our own?'' Moorer asked from his wheelchair at the news conference. He was chief of naval operations at the time of the attack.

Moorer, who has long held that the attack was a deliberate act, wants Congress to investigate.

Israeli Embassy spokesman Mark Regev disputed any notion that Israel knowingly went after American sailors.

``I can say unequivocally that the Liberty tragedy was a terrible accident, that the Israeli pilots involved believed they were attacking an enemy ship,'' Regev said. ``This was in the middle of a war. This is something that we are not proud of.''

Calls to the Navy seeking comment were not immediately returned.

David Lewis of Lemington, Vt., was on the Liberty when it was attacked. In an interview, he said Israel had to know it was targeting an American ship. He said a U.S. flag was flying that day and Israel shot it full of holes. The sailors on the ship, he said, quickly hoisted another American flag, a much bigger one, to show Israel it was a U.S. vessel.

``No trained individual could be that inept,'' said Lewis of the Israeli forces.

In Capt. Boston's statement, he does not say why Johnson would have ordered a cover-up. Later in a phone interview from his home in Coronado, Calif., Boston said Johnson may have worried the inquiry would hurt him politically with Jewish voters.

Moorer's panel suggested several possible reasons Israel might have wanted to attack a U.S. ship. Among them: Israel intended to sink the ship and blame Egypt because it might have brought the United States into the 1967 war.



Millions are reading these as we speak - this level of exposure is UNPRECEDENTED.

Strange you don't know what LGF is after the months of discussions with "nonanarchist" - DAVEMAN, AN ADMITTED LGF MEMBER.

But that's ok - after all you wouldn't want to soil your perfect record of denying everything at all costs.

Something else is getting soiled today anyway - your underware. If you squeeze that baseball really hard and concentrate the panic feelings will subside.

whoops - concentrate, fresca ?

forget I said that

DOA is too kind a word. This story isn't even worth of life in order to now be dead.

>A former Navy attorney who helped lead the military investigation of the 1967 Israeli attack on the USS Liberty that killed 34 American servicemen says former President Lyndon Johnson and his defense secretary, Robert McNamara, ordered that the inquiry conclude the incident was an accident.

So what? He said it. Prove it. He can't. It's his word against a dead President who's not alive to rebut the charges. You're 35 yrs too late Navy attorney. You should have made your accusations when the other parties were alive to defend themselves.

>wants Congress to investigate

Ain't gonna happen. The last thing the Democratic Party is going to want is some investigation of something that happened 35 years ago of possible "illegal activities" of a Democratic President while the 9 dwarfs are on the campaighn trail trying to get everyone convinced that Bush is Hitler.

You dumbasses have no clue about politics.

Next!!

see now what did I say about trying to concentrate ?

now you've went and spewed denial bile all over the table again. You really should wipe that up with some newspaper or something

just don't use todays newspaper, or you'll have another accident when you read it

I'm not fresca.

Dems would kill this before it even got off the ground, and it's not even going to do that. They got enough problems without having to defend LBJ.

It's DOA.

You'll see.

Or maybe not.

Don't matter.

It's DOA

DOA DOA DOA

oh no !

You let DOA out - and didn't put him back

and you let the world get ahold of the handbook !

The handbook - where ?

http://www.reseauvoltaire.net/IMG/pdf/wexner-communication.pdf

LGF is a weblog. Stands for Little Green Footballs, a web design firm in LA and Frisco. One of the owners (two brothers) runs a blog on the site. The blog's primary focus is the dangers posed by radical Islam. He posts stories taken off the net (real sources, not like what gets used instead of "news" around here) that unfortunately don't make mainstream media in America.

Since LGF's focus is bringing to light the evils of radical Islam, it gets terror-apologists' (like Hex) panties in a bunch. Trouble is, he and most of his type simply can't hang with the posters there...because they are quick to fact-check your behind.

Give it a try; I think you'll like it. The owner wrote all the code for the blog himself, and it works far, far better than IMC commentary software. The url is http://www.littlegreenfootballs.com/weblog/weblog.php.

I occasionally find articles linked there that I post here to tweak imc noses. In general, it;s a great source of news you won't get most everywhere else.

That Hex views it as suspect automatically means it'll be worth your while.

Thanks...I'm all over it.

A glowing endorsement from you AND Hex.

Let me know what you think.

Funny, for all his ranting about the sit, I've never seen him post anything there. Guess that makes him a "troll".

Hee hee!

when all else fails cleave into another handle and talk to myself for moral support (which is all thats left)

to promote the LGF you know nothing about..

and of course you've never talked to fresca before...

I'm only amazed you think anyone actually buys this shit !

Oh hi fresca how you doing ? You know I've never seen you on here until just now !

Hey - do you know about LGF ?

No, what's that ?

jeeze

If the writes of those pieces dont even know what the israeli position is why are they writing news articles on it?

Or is it the "private commission" that is feeding them crap?

Commander McGonagle apparently said

"I realized that there was a possibility of the aircraft having been Israeli and the attack had been conducted in error."

If you take the conspiricy theory position they argue that this was impossible however the commander stated it as part of his sworn testimony.

>>>The Israelis said only aircraft were used in the attack.

-rubbish The israelis say they also had their torpedo boats there. If you dont know the Liberty fired on the torpedo boats.

They damaged the ship and broke off their attack then they saw the flag and thought it was a soviet flag (which scared the shit out of them).

>> but later when American aircraft were launched to help, they were recalled.

- Imagine the conspiricy they are suggesting here. somthing along the lines of the US sent a ship into israeli waters in order to get its crew killed by israelis (which they also arranged). If they are not saying that then what the hell does US's choice not to send the aircraft have to do with israel? It was too soon for israel to have organized a detailed coverup involving their children of the corn strategically placed in the US government.

as to "no trained individual could be that inept" The USS liberty fired on the torpedo boats due to a failure of communication between the comander and a sailor.... speaking of inept things to do. they are lucky they didnt all die.

So some ineptness on both sides I would say.

Although there have been 10 official U.S. investigations, including 5 by congress and three official Israeli investigations, all of which concluded the event was a tragic mistake, and 7 U.S. presidents (Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, and Clinton) have endorsed that position, not one of hundreds of available Americans was presented to state the official U.S. position.

>Although there have been 10 official U.S. investigations, including 5 by congress and three official Israeli investigations, all of which concluded the event was a tragic mistake, and 7 U.S. presidents (Johnson, Nixon, Ford, Carter, Reagan, Bush, and Clinton) have endorsed that position, not one of hundreds of available Americans was presented to state the official U.S. position.

Exactly.

And nothings going to happen this time around either.

"when all else fails cleave into another handle and talk to myself for moral support (which is all thats left)"

Prove fresca and I are the same person.

"to promote the LGF you know nothing about.."

I know about it. He didn't. I told him about it, and he agreed that since you didn't like it, it was probably a decent site.

"and of course you've never talked to fresca before..."

I've been talking to fresca since I started coming here. Moron.

"I'm only amazed you think anyone actually buys this shit !"

That's exactly what I say about the stuff you post, Hexie.