the premise of Zionism is that of Jews reuiniting in our historic homeland and being self-sufficient there, and is not in that sense different from the aspirations of Kurds or other de-nationalized groups. The actual practice, and the historic refusal to work with the group that had in the interim moved into that historic homeland is where the problem comes from.

There can be peace between a free Israel and a free Palestine, if we give up attempts at dominating one another

In memory of Rachel Corrie and all those that have died in the senseless violence between Israeli and Palestinian

how can jews (a religius beleive) be united 'like the kurds' (a people) in palestine and maintain a 'jewish state' without expelling and killing the local population? it already did that and there are now millions of refugees who have a right to return home - and their home is in the galilee, haifa, and other places. this will create a non-jewish majority, however it doesn't mean jews will not live in peace. before zionism, the arab world was one of the most friendly places for jews to live in. however zionists don't want to just live and let live - they want a majority for their 'democracy', and they want to have extra priviliges based on religion - a medival practice.

without reading too much of a sinister purpose into zionism (because such a characterization is not necessary to debunk some of the problems with that philosophy) i think we can see that the reunion of jews in their 'homeland' is in fact not so simple as it has been portrayed by 'progressive jew'.

the original zionist movement was relatively secular. it was aimed at creating a jewish state that would serve as a haven and a cultural center for jewish people, a population that was justifiably weary of persecution and anti-semitism in europe and the wider world. this fairly secular ideology, however, requires that something resembling a theocratic state (or, if you view judaism as culturally transmitted, an ethnic majority within a secular state that is linked to a particular religious practice) be created to maintain this 'haven' for jews.

so, in a sense, progressive jew is right: the problem is in the implementation of this plan for the creation of a state tailored to the needs of jewish people. but the reason this problem exists with the implementation of such a plan is that the plan relies on antidemocratic and inhumane means to create a state that is aimed at a high quality of life for its citizens - in other words, the problem is the result of the plan itself, and the fair implementation of the zionist state plan is not possible. one of the most frustrating paradoxes in this whole mess is that citizens of israel - members of the jewish majority who participate in its economy and its ways of life - enjoy a high standard of living, a relatively democratic governmental framework (and i do stress "relatively") and a great deal of social welfare.

it seems to me that, as with any colonial regime, the internal affluence of the dominant population is dependent on the external oppression of the colonized population. i don't think it's productive to attack anyone for pursuing an agenda that preserves their own culture, furthers the interests of those they see as 'their people', etc... while it runs counter to the humanist principles we all seem to espouse, it is an age-old tactic practiced both by those whose struggles of liberation we support and those whose oppressive violence we oppose. rather, i think the only way we can avoid the violence we see in israel and her occupied territories is to strive for the creation of a world in which the fair treatment of all people is guaranteed not by their ability to defend themselves by force or their theological claims to life, land, or liberty, but rather by a universal belief in the sanctity of all life and the value of all cultures. this is a lofty goal and i do not speak it lightly, nor do i undertake it with certainty. but undertake it i do, and undertake it we must.

it is not wrong for a population to gather in a geographic region in an attempt to centralize, nurture, and preserve its heritage, culture, or values; this is what jewish people have attempted to do in israel, and this is a natural tendency of cultural/religious/ethnic groups the world over. however, when that liberty and preservation comes at the expense of another person, group, or population, it is indelibly tainted and fundamentally unsustainable.

peace is hard, and violence is easy. we do not have to work for violence; we can let it fester or we can perpetuate it every day. but we must pay for violence in blood, tears, and money. peace, when it is achieved, pays for itself.

The Guardians of the City, http://www.netureikarta.org/, provide a much truer picture of Judaism than any Zionist could ever muster. . .The so-called state of Israel is in direct violation of the Torah. To paraphrase their point: It was God who placed Jews in Exile; only God can remove Jews from Exile.

Point