Listening to KPFK right now (1-16-03, thursday, 5-6pm), I was really excited to hear the discussion about challenging Fox and their coverage of the anti-war demonstration.

Next thing i know, homeboy is plugging the RCP and Mao (!) as what we should all be down for. This is the representative for Not In Our Name!

It is absolutely terrifying to see authoritarian extremists doing good work in organizing the anti-war marches turn to plugging their own political agenda. There has been much debate here on this issue:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/10/19731.php

but, i find it incredibly disingenious for NION and ANSWER activists to pull the "red-baiting" card when these people get called out on their bullshit for their recruitment efforts for an extreme authoritarian agenda.

If my critique of their politics turns me into a "red baiter" then so be it. I find the term "red-baiter" quite perfectly analagous to the term "anti-semite", where those who criticize Israel are deligitimized. Think about it.

Resist all forms of authoritarian, secretive and anti-democratic clap trap.

000

Because the Bush Dynasty is the most secretive, authoritarian, anti-democratic cult to come down the pike in a long time. . .

Kim

That's true Kim, but 000's point is well taken. Otherwise, we can become what we despise ...

"000" says ... "Everyone should come out against this war, but don't be afraid to stand up to maoists, leninists, and stalinists."

Yes... Everyone will come out against the war this Jan 18th... but don't be afraid to stand up to idiot "anti-authoritarians" and their police agent "black bloc" friends.

Next time... the "anarchists" should be allowed to organize the protests in the nation's capital. After the pathetic dozen or so ragga muffins show up... perhaps the "anti-authoritarians" will finally SHUT UP!

ALL OUT FOR JAN. 18TH!

The effect of "red baiting" or anti-communism, regardless of who does it, is to place limits on how far we can go in our criticism of this system that creates war, oppression and exploitation. It feeds the notion that there is no alternative to capitalism. That will come back to bite you in the ass if you really are someone who's trying to make a change, even if you've got "problems" with communism.

If you really want to make a change, keep your fire focused on the people who are actually making war. You're really not helping anyone by encouraging others to "stand up to" organizers who you yourself admit are doing good work in mobilizing against the war. You are, on the other hand, doing quite a good job at diverting people's attention from the real enemy. The warmakers just LOVE that.

(On a side note, have you ever wondered WHY they're doing such a good job? Ever think it's MAYBE because their ideology gives them insight as to how to move things forward?)

We don't all have to agree on everything, and honest struggle amongst our ranks is good, even necessary. But we first and foremost have the RESPONSIBILITY of stopping this juggernaut of war and repression. You can start getting serious about that, or you can attack people who are building resistance to this beast. It's up to you.

I totally agree with the original poster. We are not stupid, anyone who has done activist work knows that ANSWER is the front group for the IAC which in turn is the front group of Workers World party. They take the freedom of association away from others by not being able to say that in a simple manner.

Workers World Party is communitys

and im anti-communist as much as I am anti-capitalist.

The same goes for NION, they are the front group for the RCP.

Im tired of these groups whining about red-baiting when they themselves are so dishones about the work that they do.

They are ignorant and they lie, plain and simple, they support one thing but don't even have the guts to stand up for that.

Remember "Divide and conquer" well it has now been replaced by "unite and conquer"

under the words of uniting, they use the "masses" to sell their propoganda and talk about what they and only they believe is our way out of this mess.

I see through it all to clear, and so do many other people. You are getting nowhere with this crap, and in the end the 100,000 people showing up to your protests will never join your little cult of wannebe activists selling newspapers on corners.

Seeing as this seems to be a follow-on from the comments on the Jan11 march I'm going to reply.

Scott, "they" are not doing a good job. "They" are precipitating the world towards crisis and desperation. If you are suggesting that the Anti-War Movement has to adopt the tactics and attitudes of the capitalist authoritarians then I think you've just reaffirmed the need for anti-authoritarian criticism.

As regards the jibe above about "ragamuffins" and why don't the anarchists organize something then here's a timely reminder: in the wake of September 11th after all the other groups kowtowed, kept their heads down and called off their demonstrations the Anti-Capitalist Convergence went ahead with its marches in DC. Over 600 anarchists were arrested and their right to assemble peacably denied.

The argument is not about anarchists vs. communists. It's about openness, transparency and honesty. The fact of the matter is that although many of us can agree to "No War on Iraq" it doesn't go any further than that because the Spartacists, RCP, WWP/IAC/ANSWER also call for the defense of Milosevic, Hussein and Kim Jong Il.

(Yes I know there are other groups in the LA ANSWER coalition I'm in one of them myself. Yes I support the idea of demonstrations. No demonstrations are not enough. No I don't want ANSWER organizing everything but I will show solidarity by going on anti-war demonstrations. No I'm not going to stop criticizing WWP/IAC for their authoritarian "communism".)

Where’s the Dissent?

Antiwar protests are happening all over the country and the world, but the mainstream media are hardly paying attention

http://www.msnbc.com/news/860481.asp

I totally agree with what Scott - Long time protester, who said. There needs to be a diversity of tactics, a diversity of organzations and all types of different protests.

The organizations who claim to be in charge need to be open, honest, kind, fair, transparent, and also not overpowering.

This is not a competition. The other day I saw a post from an ANSWER supporter who put down some people organizing a march at the Nixon Library This coming Saturday.

That is insane, we should be happy that more people are doing their own anti-war protests in their own communities, not scolding them because they are not doing it the way we would do it.

Shame on ANSWER if they advocate this type of mentality

originally from here:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/10/19731.php

=================

In the late 1960s a nation wide mass student movement to resist the Viet Nam war, was created under the name of Students For A Democratic Society (SDS).

It was totally anti authoritarian and published it's principles in what came to be known as the Port Huron Statement. It was as revolutionary as any organization could be and it was huge. Because of it;s open and democratic structure it was easily infiltrated by a bunch of Trotskyests in what came to be known as the Progressive Labor Party. They packed the meetings and exhausted everyone in constant arguments over process and politics, they destroyed the organization. Those activists who felt passionaely about ending the war often burned out and just left the movement. Once they had succeeded in destroying SDS, they moved on to thier real purpose which is always the same for all these commie bastards, "Building the Party." The "PARTY" is the instrument they hope to use to seize control of state power and turn it towards their own "dictatorship of the Proletariat." The party replaces the rulers of the former state and wields absolute power. As we can see from current day China, it really doesn't matter whether what form the economie takes state capitalist, capitalist, socialist, the Party dictates to the rest of society. They use a system of decision making to achieve their objectives called, "democratic centralism" which is about as undemocratic as any system could be. They meet and plan their strategies for party building and once they fhink they have figured out the "correct line" for achieving their party building objectives they proceed to do their best to build their membership accordingly. In the case of SDS it was decided to infiltrate it and take it over and turn it into an organ of the Progressive Labor "PARTY."

Another classic example of this type of organization was the "Revolutionary Union" which would eventually metamorse into the Revolutionary Communist Party (RCP).

At the time an organization called the Vietnam Veterans Against the War (VVAW) had formed this group was in possession of probably the finest film library of the anti war movement both inside and outside the military anywhere in the world. It was stored in the Washington Square Church on 4th Street in Greenwich Village in New York City. The RCP decided to infiltrate the VVAW and take it over. Once in they met some real resistance from the vetrans and realized they could not succeed in their take over they entered the Church at night broke into the VVAWs office and stole the entire library of film. They distributed it among all their members so it was impossible to retrieve and it was never seen again. Imagine if we had that library today how much it could help us teach the young people of today about that wonderful struggle to end that unjust war and then to connect it to the current war and all the others, Panama, Desert Storm, Grenada etc.

This is what these people and organizations are all about they still function in the same way with the same goals. I have seen them destroy organizations, movements and everything they touch. This is one anarchist who went through it all and I will be damned if I will be allow myself to be used and manipulated by these left wing fascists today. My message is simple and clear, NEVER AGAIN!!

originally posted here:

http://la.indymedia.org/news/2002/10/19731.php

=======================

How anyone can deny the history of front groups or their current manifestation is very puzzling. Anyone who has spent any time studying the communist movement in this country knows that the party faithful started front groups that most folks did not realize were attached to the CP. It was a very underhanded way of organizing because people were involved in "communist" activities even though they did not identify themselves as such. The communists felt they needed to operate in this manner for their own ideological reasons which people on this board may feel is valid but the fact remains that they operated through front groups. Todays communist movement operates in a similar manner. They could never get much support in this country by simply admiting that they are communists so instead they create names like ANSWER, Not In Our Name, etc.

Don't get me wrong, this does not mean I won't go to demo. or rally against the war. Anyone who is against this war has a duty and obigation to protest in a manner they feel is apropriate. That stated, I do find some validity in T-Mex's statement that there is not enough criticism of totalitarian Arab regimes. Beyond a lack of criticism some even go as far as to appear to support these despotic governments. I was at the rally mentioned by Burningman and was surprised to see white people (not Iraqis) running around with Iraqi flags. What the fuck is up with that?

Lastly, I wasn't surprised by B-man's comments regarding reposters critique of authoritarianism. It's pretty typical for these guys to avoid your criticism and accuse you of being "sectarian" or another one I like is "bougeouise."

It's sad that in 2002 people are still making excuses for megalomaniacs like Stalin and Mao. We've seen the kind of world these nuts want and it is not "a society where the common people rule." It's a society where people like them rule.

And lastly, Mr. "they never give their names. Chickenshit motherfuckers." Did your momma name you "the burningman"?

For the record, I don't support the black-bloc tactic. But i am not surprised that "black-block-head" wants to attack critics of extreme authoritarian ideologies and generalize their politics as simply being black-bloc members.

This is the most basic standard, ad-hominen attacks of opponents of the authoritarin left. They will never respond to the critiques of their political agenda, but will always attack their opponents by painting them as naive and "bourgeois".

For the record, i can descibe my politics as generally being anti-authoritarian socialist, or libertarain socialist. I support working with coalitions against this war, and I am quite happy to be side by side resisting Bush, but I will resist, at every turn, the attempt by the RCP/WWP/ISO etc to recruit people to a party program whose goal is to obtain state power and create an authoritarian dictatorship.

Never Again.

000