Saturday October 13, 2001

BERLIN (Reuters) - Germany saw its biggest protest so far against the air strikes on Afghanistan. The Taliban estimate that more than 300 people, mainly civilians, have been killed in the raids. There has been no independent confirmation.

Protest organizers said some 30,000 people turned out in Berlin. ``The horror of World War Two makes all of us in Germany leery of war,'' said physician Hannes Wand, 54, at the rally held under blue skies and unusually warm autumn weather. ``I'm against this war because it's not justified and innocent people are being killed and forced to flee their homes.''

Police said an estimated 5,000 people protested in the Swiss capital Berne, and about 4,000 in the southwest German city of Stuttgart. Smaller protests were held in other parts of the non-Islamic world, including Australia.

In Berlin, there were minor scuffles with police as protesters marched through the central government quarter and past the Brandenburg Gate, foreign ministry and city hall. Banners read: ``War is genocide,'' ``War is not the solution'' and ``Stop Bush's war.'' Singers performed anti-war songs from the backs of flat-bed trucks.

It seems to me the 6,000 civilian deaths justify action other than asking the UN for permission to sing songs and hold hands.

Does Hilter make them leery of war as well?

America has choosen not to live on it's knees.

Don't forget that the terrorists went after a symbol of capitalism and looking across this photo is seems to me that the entire lot has partaken of capitalism. Isn't that a bit hypocritical?

"It seems to me the 6,000 civilian deaths justify action other than asking the UN for

permission to sing songs and hold hands."

However many deths we cite to justify our actions it seems to me that people around the world will have us beat. Clearly the rational is wrong and immoral. Naturally I feel insulted to hear that my moral stance is reduced to mear singing songs and holding hands. In nursing my hurt I do have to acknowledge that the above poster has no idea what he is talking about.

"Does Hilter make them leery of war as well?"

I would think so.



" America has choosen not to live on it's knees."

Which America would that be? What an odd use of metaphore. It indicates something of the posters mindset.



"Don't forget that the terrorists went after a symbol of capitalism and looking across this

photo is seems to me that the entire lot has partaken of capitalism. Isn't that a bit

hypocritical?"

I won't forget. Please remember that the folks in the photo are not terrorists. It would only be hypocritical of the terrorsits to both support and criticque capitalism, but then I would'nt try and hold terrorists to any standards in regards to hypocrosy, after all, they use violence toagainst the US to prove tha the use of violence against them is wrong. How fucked up is that?

Germany is a capitalist coutry, as is the US. I live in the US. Don't mistake my having been born here and my need to make a living here as support for capitalism. Like my friends in Germany my primary sympathies lay in my support for democracy. If we lived in a truely democratic country we would not be subject to the worst excesses of capital. Just becasue it is difficult for me and friends to bring about social justice does not mean we are happy with the way things are. I am trying to anticipate those empty headed arguments that the more deluded tend to toss this direction like so many idiot grenades. But then, is it even worth discourse with such individuals?