{"article":{"id":180277,"heading":"Political Corruption in Israel","author":"URI AVNERY","created":"2006-09-29 20:57:14","modified":"2006-10-03 21:22:24","last_modified":"Wed, 04 Oct 2006 04:22:24","article":"

Because of a Small Nail

Political Corruption in Israel

By URI AVNERY

HAD HAMLET been a reserve soldier in the Israeli army, he might now declare: \"Something is rotten in the State of Israel!\"

And indeed, something is rotten -

* The President of the State refuses to suspend himself, in face of eight individual accusations of sexual harassment. He whines about a monstrous conspiracy against him and points at Netanyahu's men in the Likud.

* The Prime Minister and the Minister of Defense refuse to resign, in spite of the overwhelming majority of the public's expressed lack of confidence in Ehud Olmert (70%) and Amir Peretz (82%). Instead of agreeing to the establishment of an independent judicial commission of inquiry, they have set up an examining committee that has already lost the confidence of the majority of the public--even before it has started to investigate the events of the Lebanon War.

* The Chief-of-Staff, under attack from retired and serving generals, declares that he \"will not take off his uniform until somebody tears it off.\"

* The chairman of the Knesset Foreign and Military Affairs Committee is indicted for fraud and perjury.

* The Minister of Justice is on trial for pushing his tongue into the mouth of a female soldier.

According to the polls, the overwhelming majority of the population is happy with their personal situation (80%) but depressed about the situation of the state (59%).

So what to do?

Simple: just change the system.

* * *

THIS IS a typical Israeli reaction. Perhaps typically human.

When a crisis threatens to upset the foundations of our perceptions, we tend to turn away from the main issue and concentrate all our attention on some detail. Thus we are relieved from questioning our basic beliefs and the world-view we are accustomed to. We take some detail, as small as possible, and put all the blame on it. That's it! Found it! That's the guilty part!

As the old song goes: \"All because of a small nail!\" So when a major disaster occurs, we find the small nail that caused it, and we need not look further.

For example: the Yom-Kippur war. Why did this bloody war break out at all? Why didn't we accept President Anwar Sadat's earlier offer of peace in exchange for the return of the Sinai? Why did our Ship of Fools blithely sail from the Six-day war to the Yom-Kippur war on a sea of arrogance?

No, such questions were not asked. But what was asked? Things like: Why didn't the army intelligence department warn us that the Egyptians and Syrians were about to attack? Why weren't the reserve units called up in time? Why weren't the \"instruments\" (tanks and artillery) moved to the canal?

It was called \"The Omission\". That was the slogan of the mass protest movement that sprang up and swept away Golda Meir and Moshe Dayan.

That's like emptying the ashtray when a car breaks down. Now something similar is happening.

* * *

THE POLLS show that the public has no confidence in the leadership. But the public does not say: We voted for these leaders, so we are to blame. That would be an unpleasant admission. What they say is: It's not our fault. So who is to blame? The \"system\", of course.

That's because our parliamentary democracy does not assure the Prime Minister a full term of four years. He can fall before that. It also compels him to include in his government leaders of the coalition parties, even if they are quite incompetent to direct their ministries. The Prime Minister cannot plan long-term policy, nor put capable experts in charge of the ministries.

That's very bad. Therefore, we must adopt the American system. The people will elect a president, who will serve at least four full years. He will choose a cabinet composed of outstanding personalities, each one an expert in his field. Thus Zion will be redeemed.

* * *

THIS IS the purest snake oil--one bottle to cure all illnesses, without pain and without delay.

First of all, one cannot simply transfer a political system from one country to another. Every state has its own tradition, its own specific culture, its own social set-up. A political system must grow from within. It cannot be imposed on another people. When one tries to do that, the society adapts it to its own requirements and changes it beyond recognition. (Japan after World War II springs to mind.) Only out-of-touch professors in ivory towers could imagine that the illnesses of a society can be cured by an ideal political system copied from another country.

That has already been proven in Israel: under the influence of some professors, our \"system\" was changed some years ago. It was decided that the Prime Minister would be elected directly, separately from the Knesset elections. But soon it became obvious that this system was worse than the one before it. So the Wise Ones took counsel and changed the whole thing back again.

But there's no need for us to go through that experience ourselves. In order to appreciate the advantages of the presidential system, it's enough to look at the situation in its homeland: the United States.

What has this system achieved there? Indeed, the president has at least four full years, but many would add \"alas!\" When it is discovered that a complete idiot has been elected and embroils his country in disastrous adventures, he cannot be removed. In our parliamentary system, as in the United Kingdom, a Prime Minister can be removed with comparative ease. Tony Blair will be gone within a year, while George Bush serves out his full term.

Are the American ministers more competent than ours? Is Donald Rumsfeld less of a disaster than Amir Peretz?

Moreover, in order to be elected president, a candidate needs huge sums of money. Such heavy money can come only from interest groups, lobbies and large corporations. The American system is corrupt to the core--a corruption so deep and wide, it makes the sins of Olmert & Co. look innocent.

* * *

BUT LOGIC is not the key to this discussion, because the demand for system change is serving as a cover for something much more sinister: the call for a Leader.

Such calls always arise in times of crisis. When there is a feeling of defeat and a climate of distrust of the old leadership, people long for a strong father. Democracy looks weak and rotten, especially faced with the legend that the politicians have \"prevented the army from winning.\" A strong leader solves problems with an iron fist. A policy of dialogue and agreements is something for weaklings.

It must be clear: the proposal to adopt the presidential system is nothing other than a disguised call for an all-powerful leader. One has only to look at those who propose it.

The foremost advocate of \"system change\" is Avigdor Liberman, the leader of the \"Israel Our Home\" party, composed mainly of immigrants from the former Soviet Union. This is a party of the radical Right--to use an understatement. In other countries, they might be called by another name.

\"Israel Our Home\" stands for unbridled nationalism and xenophobia. It is more radical than Joerg Haider in Austria and Jean-Marie Le-Pen in France. It calls for all Palestinians to leave the country, including the Arab citizens of Israel proper, who constitute 20% of the population. That does not prevent Ehud Olmert from declaring publicly that he would like to have this party in his government. (When Haider joined the Austrian government, Israel recalled its ambassador from Vienna.)

Liberman, who wants to be Minister of Defense, has set five conditions for joining the government, headed by the demand for the adoption of the presidential system. It is quite clear who his candidate for president is: Avigdor Liberman.

The polls say that if elections were held now, Liberman's party would get 16 seats in the 120-seat Knesset (compared to 11 seats in the present assembly). To this, one must add the nine seats occupied in the present Knesset by the \"National Union\", whose leader, a knitted-kippa-wearing general, publicly demands the expulsion of all Arabs from the occupied Palestinian territories, and the withdrawal of democratic rights from the Arab citizens of Israel itself. When such parties constitute a fifth of the voting public, there is certainly cause for concern.

* * *

I BELIEVE in Israeli democracy. It is an incredible phenomenon, considering where most Israeli citizens or their parents came from: Czarist and Communist Russia, the Poland of Pilsudsky and his heirs, Morocco, Iraq, Iran and Syria--in addition to those born in colonial Palestine under the rule of the British High Commissioner. Like the resurrection of the Hebrew language, which has no parallel in the world, this democracy is a miracle. (This means, of course, democracy in Israel proper. In the occupied territories, a very different situation prevails.)

I don't believe that there is a concrete danger of the rise of fascism at present. But we have to be on our guard, every day and every hour. Several factors may promote fascist tendencies here: the feeling of defeat in war, the legend of the \"the stab in the back of the army\", lack of confidence in the democratic system, a widening gap between rich and poor, incitement against the national minority described as a Fifth Column.

That is more than a small nail.

Uri Avnery is an Israeli writer and peace activist with Gush Shalom. He is one of the writers featured in The Other Israel: Voices of Dissent and Refusal. He is also a contributor to CounterPunch's hot new book The Politics of Anti-Semitism. He can be reached at: avnery@counterpunch.org<\/a>.<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"HAD HAMLET been a reserve soldier in the Israeli army, he might now declare: "Something is rotten in the State of Israel!"","numcomment":161,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2006\/09\/180277.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":180283,"heading":"Don't get this perspective in mainstream u.s. media","article":"Don't get this perspective in mainstream u.s. media.\r\nThanks for posting.","author":"Don't get this perspective in mainstream u.s.","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-29 21:06:17","modified":"2006-09-29 21:06:17","fileurl":""},{"id":180295,"heading":"Another so what?","article":"Another so what?","author":"Another so what?","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-29 21:38:22","modified":"2006-09-29 21:38:22","fileurl":""},{"id":180393,"heading":"I came to a different conclusion","article":"Hasn't Uri Avnery documented that no matter how high and mighty one gets in the Israeli government, they are still subject to the law, and if found violating it, they are punished?\r\n\r\nHasn't he just documented a democratic system that is working by giving half a dozen examples of govt. officials being called to task?\r\n\r\nCan any writer, Averny or others, document any evidence of Yassir Arafat being held accountable in his 9 years in office (elected to a five-year term BTW) in which he fattened a Swiss bank account with over a billion dollars?\r\n\r\nDidn't Fatah lose the election because of charges of widespread corruption within the PA?","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 12:20:26","modified":"2006-09-30 12:20:26","fileurl":""},{"id":180399,"heading":"speak of the dead not the living","article":"> Yassir Arafat\r\n\r\nsuch respect for the dead\r\n\r\nimpeccable\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n ","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 12:52:42","modified":"2006-09-30 12:52:42","fileurl":""},{"id":180413,"heading":""such respect for the dead"","article":"Question to Hex the anti-Zionist: do you look similirlay in disdain on your cohorts' disrespect for dead Israeli leaders when you enounter it happening?","author":"?","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 15:02:49","modified":"2006-09-30 15:02:49","fileurl":""},{"id":180419,"heading":"but what about them cries the occupier","article":"> Hex the anti-Zionist\r\n\r\nad hominem \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> your cohorts \r\n\r\nrhetorical, diversionary\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 15:15:06","modified":"2006-09-30 15:15:06","fileurl":""},{"id":180421,"heading":"Trying to hide? From what?","article":"Nevertheless, you didn't answer the question. What are you afraid of? Could it be you aren't capable of being as disingenuous as your fellow anti-Zionists?\r\n\r\nAshamed to be anti-Zionist? \r\n\r\nSo when will you answer? Until you do, I see nothing wrong with what BJ stated.","author":"pathetic...","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 15:20:29","modified":"2006-09-30 15:20:29","fileurl":""},{"id":180429,"heading":"hide from - wasting time ?","article":"> you didn't answer the question. What are you afraid of?\r\n\r\nscientologists talk like this - it's called browbeating\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> So when will you answer?\r\n\r\n\r\num - never :)\r\n\r\nthats what describing your behaviors means - I see the game for what it is, therefore any response beyond citing the game is a waste of time\r\n\r\nthere's no answer that will satisfy you - other than total capitulation\r\n\r\n\r\n> Until you do, I see nothing wrong with what BJ stated\r\n\r\nnaturally - because you're only looking for one specific answer - the one you desire\r\n\r\nwhen you narrow the field down to just what you want, that eliminates the possibility of constructive debate\r\n\r\nwhich is just fine since that's what you're here to do - disrupt, distract and discredit\r\n\r\nto prevent constructive debate and thus trumpet that IMC and it's patrons are {insert insult here}\r\n\r\n ","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 16:18:11","modified":"2006-09-30 16:18:11","fileurl":""},{"id":180430,"heading":"I'm not here to disrupt, distract and discredit, blah blah","article":"I just wanted to show that you employed a logical fallacy against Becky Johnson's argument, so your objection to her statement is inadmissable. You've got NO refutation for what she stated. Until you can disprove her argument about Yasser Arafat and others, your objection is just laughable. A wiser person than you would have held his piece.","author":"common sense","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 16:24:58","modified":"2006-09-30 16:24:58","fileurl":""},{"id":180433,"heading":"I'm here to divert attention from the occupation","article":"who cares about Yasser Arafat - he's dead\r\n\r\ndiversionary tactic\r\n\r\nThe Palestinians aren't occupying Israel - Israel is occupying Palestine\r\n\r\nlet's not ever forget that and you'll be fine\r\n\r\n ","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 16:37:03","modified":"2006-09-30 16:37:03","fileurl":""},{"id":180455,"heading":"another axe grinder swings","article":"> your inability\r\n\r\nthat's a sure-fire bait, challenge by claiming someone "can't"\r\n\r\nonly it's not working :)\r\n\r\nthe _who cares_ part doesn't seem to sink in...\r\n\r\noh well, I guess I'm too ~pissed~ to reply\r\n\r\ntime for another radio show ;)\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 18:54:02","modified":"2006-09-30 18:54:02","fileurl":""},{"id":180469,"heading":"O' face saver, BJ's and "We"","article":"surely you must be right 'o "we"\r\n\r\n\r\n"to refute BJ's claims"\r\n\r\nBJ ? :)\r\n\r\nshe said she didn't like that...\r\n\r\nI only call her Becky myself\r\n\r\n"We" hmmmmmmmmmmmmm\r\n\r\nI see what's going on now :)\r\n\r\nhello troll !\r\n\r\ndecided to latch onto the zionist issue and make it your own - huh "we" ?\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 19:33:00","modified":"2006-09-30 19:33:00","fileurl":""},{"id":180471,"heading":"Laching onto the Zionist issue??","article":"It was you who alluded to me as the occupier way up. Doesn't that make me a *Zionist* untermensch? ","author":"hecks","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 19:37:34","modified":"2006-09-30 19:37:34","fileurl":""},{"id":180476,"heading":""me", "we" and "us"","article":"you're dismissed\r\n\r\na troll hanging onto any issue you think will provide a hook to gain attention, off the coat-tails of the other trolls\r\n\r\nsad\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 19:48:39","modified":"2006-09-30 19:48:39","fileurl":""},{"id":180479,"heading":"Why be sad?","article":"You need to brush up a bit on your humor. One should go through life without being engulfed by sadness due to a comment made by another debunking his or her feeble anti-Zionist claims. \r\n\r\nDon't forget you were trolling Johnson's coment on Yasser Arafat to begin with. Excuses notwithstanding.\r\n","author":"What the heck","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 19:57:34","modified":"2006-09-30 19:57:34","fileurl":""},{"id":180487,"heading":"Who said this???","article":"Who said the following?\r\nAnd in what article was it quoted?\r\n\r\n\r\n"I BELIEVE in Israeli democracy. It is an incredible phenomenon, considering where most Israeli citizens or their parents came from: Czarist and Communist Russia, the Poland of Pilsudsky and his heirs, Morocco, Iraq, Iran and Syria--in addition to those born in colonial Palestine under the rule of the British High Commissioner. Like the resurrection of the Hebrew language, which has no parallel in the world, this democracy is a miracle. (This means, of course, democracy in Israel proper. In the occupied territories, a very different situation prevails.)\r\n\r\nI will give the answers in a later post.\r\n\r\nMESSAGE TO HEX: Thanks for remembering my objection to calling me "Ms. BJ." I appreciate your manners.\r\nFor the record, I don't mind my initials being used as long as its not in a context to sexualize them and use that sexualization abusively against me.\r\n\r\nGOOD LUCK ON THE QUIZ!!! (don't pass this up. there are prizes!)\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-09-30 20:41:24","modified":"2006-09-30 20:41:24","fileurl":""},{"id":180544,"heading":""I BELIEVE in Israeli democracy. It is an incredible phenomenon"","article":"No, not really\r\n\r\nAs the "American Experiment" is now making crystal clear, it's just the most effective shell game ever devised by which to dupe the milling morons into believing they actually have a say in things. All their resulting energy just amounts to arranging deck chairs. Meanwhile the way to REALLY influence the class power balance has never changed: doing things like forming militant undergrounds, assassinating corrupt politicians -- the sorts of things revolutions ALWAYS end up doing for excellent **inevitable** reasons. \r\n\r\nSuperwealthy elites never ever for a second suspend their war against YOU. They're just exquisitely subtle about it. \r\n\r\nYou, the Great Herd, the comatose King Kong...\r\n\r\n...**YOU** don't have to be subtle. The true owner of power never does.\r\n\r\nBut see, as long as elite social engineers keep doling out to you a precisely calibrated amount of personal privilege, while swinging this watch in front of your eyes called "democracy," then you'll be content to just stay locked in your stanchions in the slaughter house, mooing and chewing and gazing into your teevee sets, even as the killer drudge makes his way down the line, smashing his ten-pound sledge into the brains of your peers as he comes... \r\n\r\nNo one has to explain any of this to elite zionists, who have always been Jabotinskyite fascist fanatics straight out of the mold of the man himself, and yet Israelis keep imagining they see something else, and that's directly attributable to this absurdity called "democracy"","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 07:08:02","modified":"2006-10-01 07:08:02","fileurl":""},{"id":180551,"heading":"Still no Cupie Doll","article":"TW gets NO points!!\r\n\r\nYou did NOT identify who said it, OR where it was published.\r\n\r\nThough your anti-Israel diatribe was quite telling.\r\n\r\nHex? Any comments on TW's treatment of Arial Sharon's crippling stroke?\r\n\r\nIt looks like you are alone in your plea to honor fallen politicians on any side.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 11:05:35","modified":"2006-10-01 11:05:35","fileurl":""},{"id":180553,"heading":"apples & oranges & bait","article":"Sharon is\r\n\r\na.) a war criminal\r\nb.) still alive\r\n\r\nas to the game (with prizes) well - I see it for what it is - a baited hook with the reward being the frying pan\r\n\r\non the subject of manners - It would be out of character\r\n\r\nI would have to go out of my way to be mean & nasty, to partake in making fun of you\r\n\r\nI'm not a mean & nasty person so naturally this would be percieved as "manners" in your regard\r\n\r\nthat's not to say I don't have an extremely low opinion of your political beliefs, values and activities however\r\n\r\non the question of your long history of involvement with IMC and your "right" (read demand) to post pro-Israeli propaganda here to your heart's content\r\n\r\nit's not my place or standing to pass judgement - that's entirely up to the IMC staff\r\n\r\nin your shoes (which requires a real leap of faith for me to get behind) having been told multible times directly by more than one IMC staff to "buzz off", myself I would be *long gone*\r\n\r\nI request and invite IMC staff to tell me to - either publicly or via e-mail, while hoping and praying (putting serious thought and reflection into), the issue that I haven't done or am not doing anything to cause them to, want to, or even think about wanting to doing so\r\n\r\nsince I don't get much feedback from them yay or nay (I get the impression some of them think I'm a cross between a minor annoyance and not worth the time at one end of the opinion scale, to a fairly well behaved patron who sometimes contributes a bit of good input or data at the other end)\r\n\r\nAn un-sophisticated bumbling country bumpkin with glaring character defects he's blindlingly unaware of, but who at least tries to improve his personality and tries to adjust his behavior for the better - usually - and shows some potential to join civilization maybe sometime in the future when he grows up\r\n\r\njust saying this probably just earned me the slap of narcissistic :)\r\n\r\nbut what the hell - I'm self-groveling in a vacuum here and you only live once :)\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 11:39:47","modified":"2006-10-01 11:39:47","fileurl":""},{"id":180554,"heading":"maybe there's hope after all","article":"Narcissistic Personality Disorder\r\n\r\nDiagnostic Criteria\r\n\r\nA pervasive pattern of grandiosity (in fantasy or behavior), need for admiration, and lack of empathy, beginning by early adulthood and present in a variety of contexts, as indicated by five (or more) of the following: \r\n\r\n1.) has a grandiose sense of self-importance (e.g., exaggerates achievements and talents, expects to be recognized as superior without commensurate achievements)\r\n\r\n2.) is preoccupied with fantasies of unlimited success, power, brilliance, beauty, or ideal love\r\n\r\n3.) believes that he or she is "special" and unique and can only be understood by, or should associate with, other special or high-status people (or institutions)\r\n\r\n4.) requires excessive admiration\r\n\r\n5.) has a sense of entitlement, i.e., unreasonable expectations of especially favorable treatment or automatic compliance with his or her expectations \r\n\r\n6.) is interpersonally exploitative, i.e., takes advantage of others to achieve his or her own ends\r\n\r\n7.) lacks empathy: is unwilling to recognize or identify with the feelings and needs of others\r\n\r\n8.) is often envious of others or believes that others are envious of him or her \r\n\r\n9.) shows arrogant, haughty behaviors or attitudes \r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 11:48:20","modified":"2006-10-01 11:48:20","fileurl":""},{"id":180556,"heading":"You up for more debate?","article":"Hex, why don't you invite me on your radio show?\r\n\r\nJust e-mail me specifics if accept.","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 12:19:55","modified":"2006-10-01 12:19:55","fileurl":""},{"id":180560,"heading":"because I don't DO radio shows","article":"I air them\r\n\r\n(the stations are fully automatic - with only station ID's, jingles and shouts pre-recorded and queued to the playout boxes)\r\n\r\nif Unwelcome Guests, Guns & Butter and BTL doesn't carry you as a guest speaker then neither do I\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 12:59:56","modified":"2006-10-01 12:59:56","fileurl":""},{"id":180561,"heading":"Becky DOES Radio shows","article":"Why don't you allow your self to be interviewed on Becky's show?\r\n\r\nNow that would be entertainment!","author":"doesn't just pirate other people's work","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 13:05:36","modified":"2006-10-01 13:05:36","fileurl":""},{"id":180563,"heading":""pirate other people's work"","article":"hahah clever baiting\r\n\r\nthese shows ask stations to carry them and even proudly display the stations that acknowledge they do on their web page\r\n\r\n\r\nbut just on morbid curiosity what radio show does Becky air on ?\r\n\r\nAIR - not just bitcast...","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 13:19:27","modified":"2006-10-01 13:19:27","fileurl":""},{"id":180569,"heading":""the subject of manners "","article":">on the subject of manners - It would be out of character \r\n\r\nWere you alluding to A. Sharon here?\r\n\r\nAs for your anti-Sharon accusation, the only war crime that can factually be pinned on him is one incident back in 1953 in which about 3 dozen civilians were murdered. Not Gaza in the early 1970's and NOT Sabra & Shtilla for which he was only indirectly responsible. His war-crime record is next to nothing in comparison to all the crimes committed by Yasser Arafat. There are even a few US far-leftists that have distanced themselves from his criminal legacy, including Richard Estes.","author":"hexi-gone","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 14:25:25","modified":"2006-10-01 14:25:25","fileurl":""},{"id":180571,"heading":"Eh...hell","article":"Hex, you characterized yourself yesterday as somebody calling for peace above everything else, just like NK. How does this characterization square with your failure to issue a disfavorable remark on TW's mean treatment of A. Sharon? Or will you make another excuse?\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"hexi-gone","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 14:42:04","modified":"2006-10-01 14:42:04","fileurl":""},{"id":180572,"heading":"even his own cabinet","article":"re: Sharon's war crimes\r\n\r\n> he was only indirectly responsible\r\n\r\nwell even his *own cabinet* condemned him for it -\r\n\r\ndamn facts can be so inconvenient :)\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nIt is now official. By decision of its own cabinet, the state (Israel) is pronounced guilty of Crimes against Humanity.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> all the crimes committed by Yasser Arafat.\r\n\r\ngot any ::cough:: proof to back this up ?\r\n\r\noh and BTW - he's still dead - you're still accusing the dead who isn't among us to depend himself\r\n\r\ntroll issue biter..\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-10-01 14:53:01","modified":"2006-10-01 14:53:01","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/09\/sharon9.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/09\/sharon9.jpg"}},{"id":180574,"heading":"More","article":"Arafat directed the Palestine Liberation Organization which, between 1968 and 1988, waged a worldwide campaign of terrorism in the hope of destroying international support for Israel and creating sympathy for the Palestinian cause.\r\n\r\nFor 20 years, his fedayeen hijacked airliners and in one case a ship, bombed Jewish and non-Jewish targets alike and staged other atrocities such as the massacre of Israeli athletes at the Munich Olympics. One recorded telephone conversation proved that Arafat himself gave the "kill" order on two U.S. diplomats seized during an embassy siege in the Sudanese capital of Khartoum.\r\n\r\nBy Israel's count, the PLO was responsible for more than 8,000 terrorist attacks. And 30 Israelis who lost relatives in some of those attacks have lodged murder and genocide charges against Arafat in the same Belgian court where war crimes charges were lodged by Palestinians against Sharon.\r\n\r\nThrown out of Jordan in 1970 and expelled from Lebanon in 1982, Arafat continued to direct terrorist attacks on the Jewish state from Tunisia until 1988\r\n\r\nCoupled with the 6 billion dollars he alleged embezzeled from his own people, i'd say there is a very compelling argument against Arafat..","author":"re: Arafat","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 15:14:52","modified":"2006-10-01 15:14:52","fileurl":""},{"id":180575,"heading":"Are you stupid or just got a super-short memory, or just lazy?","article":"First off, \r\n\r\n>got any ::cough:: proof to back this [all the crimes committed by Yasser Arafat] up? \r\n\r\nSee the post's header. Don't know how to use the search function or just too lazy to scroll up in threads? I won't rehash what I told you yesterday. It had something to do with upwards of $6 billion. And that's only on the monetary front as far as his crimes go.\r\n\r\n\r\n>>he was only indirectly responsible \r\n>even his *own cabinet* condemned him for it - \r\n\r\nIrrelevant, just as the fact that Arafat's cabinet never condemned him for *his* many crimes.\r\n\r\n\r\n>By decision of its own cabinet, the state (Israel) is pronounced guilty of Crimes against Humanity. \r\n\r\nWhich decision? When was it issued, sir knight? With the absense of substantiation your statement has no credibility.\r\n\r\n>oh and BTW - he's still dead - you're still accusing the dead who isn't among us to depend himself \r\n\r\nI don't give a shit, sweetheart. There are literal mountains of proof for his multifarious crimes. His people are still reeling because of them. So many of his crimes are pertinent to the problem as it stands *today*. I won't allow you to manipulate me with your supposed chivalrous code of honor away from criticizing Arafat, which just happens to suit your political agenda so fine.\r\n \r\n\r\n>troll issue biter.. \r\n\r\nIf you don't troll, why haven't you answered my question about TW?","author":"hexi-gone","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 15:14:54","modified":"2006-10-01 15:14:54","fileurl":""},{"id":180578,"heading":"money verses murder, ankle biting trolls verses zionists","article":"\r\nre: Arafat (still dead)\r\n\r\n> It had something to do with upwards of $6 billion\r\n\r\n\r\nSharon (alive)\r\n\r\nMASS MURDERER - CONDEMNED EVEN BY HIS OWN CABINET AS A ***WAR*** (AS IN DEAD PEOPLE) CRIMINAL\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.mediamonitors.net\/lindamalone1.html\r\nPrime Minister Ariel Sharon, A War Criminal \r\n\r\n\r\n"A single human life is more valuable than all the treasures in the Universe"\r\n\r\nend of discussion - dismissed, troll\r\n\r\n(now you'll just have to play with yourself)\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"image\/gif","created":"2006-10-01 15:39:05","modified":"2006-10-01 15:39:05","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/09\/sharoncemetery.gif","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/09\/sharoncemetery.gif"}},{"id":180581,"heading":"Money verses muder?","article":"Sir knight, your desperation is showing. I get to dismiss myself.\r\n\r\n>money verses murder\r\n\r\nArafat was responsible for the murder of many more than 3 dozen civilians, both in Israel and abroad (eg Achille La'oro, etc.). Maybe you really are stupid, at least in that you ignore what the other poster related and hope we don't notice.\r\n\r\n\r\n>[Arafat's monetary crimes] had something to do with upwards of $6 billion \r\n\r\nSharon (alive) \r\n\r\nMASS MURDERER - CONDEMNED EVEN BY HIS OWN CABINET AS A ***WAR*** (AS IN DEAD PEOPLE) CRIMINAL \r\n\r\nShouting in ALL CAPS doesn't redeem your argument sweety -- the evidence doesn't go away and the Palestinians are still reeling, not that you seem to really care unless you can spin it to be Israel's fault.\r\n\r\n\r\n>http:\/\/www.mediamonitors.net\/lindamalone1.html \r\nPrime Minister Ariel Sharon, A War Criminal \r\n\r\nYou said, "By decision of its own cabinet, the state (Israel) is pronounced guilty of Crimes against Humanity." I asked which decision? When was it issued? With the absense of substantiation your statement has no credibility. This piece doesn't point to ANY decision of of ANY Israeli cabinet that pronounced the state to be guilty of Crimes against Humanity!\r\nFurthermore, I notice lies in her piece, eg "As many as 2,000 Palestinian civilians were killed in the camps" (the real toll was 800-900) and "Sharon was elected to the highest political post in Israel after having provoked a violent confrontation by his visit to the Haram al-Sharif". \r\n\r\n\r\n>"A single human life is more valuable than all the treasures in the Universe" \r\n\r\nDid you ever ttell this to Arafat when he was busy hoarding personal wealth on his subjects' backs?\r\n\r\n\r\n>end of discussion - dismissed, troll \r\n\r\nA cowardly cop out of a debater of weak character. I take it you're afraid to tackle the issues you've ducked:\r\n\r\n>By decision of its own cabinet, the state (Israel) is pronounced guilty of Crimes against Humanity. \r\n\r\nWhich decision? When was it issued, sir knight? With the absense of substantiation your statement has no credibility. \r\n\r\n\r\n>on the subject of manners - It would be out of character \r\n\r\nWere you alluding to A. Sharon here? \r\n\r\nIf you don't troll, why haven't you answered my question about TW? You characterized yourself yesterday as somebody calling for peace above everything else, just like NK. How does this characterization square with your failure to issue a disfavorable remark on TW's mean treatment of A. Sharon? Or will you make another excuse?","author":"hexi-gone","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 16:12:01","modified":"2006-10-01 16:12:01","fileurl":""},{"id":180582,"heading":"How many times must we do this?","article":"-eg Achille La'oro,-\r\n\r\nVictor Ostrowsky, a former Mossad agent writes in his book, \u201cBy Way of Deception, \u201c that a classic case of Mossad operations was the hijacking of the ship Achilles Lauro,\r\nLet's allow the readers a view into the Achilles Lauro and false flags.\r\n\r\n- Victor Ostrowsky, a former Mossad agent writes in his book, \u201cBy Way of Deception, \u201c that a classic case of Mossad operations was the hijacking of the ship Achilles Lauro, which was purportedly hijacked by Palestinian fighters, and resulted in the death of a wheel chair bound passenger, Mr.Klinghofer. This happened at the time, when the U.S. and world public opinion was beginning to feel sympathy for the cause of the Palestinians. This killing received condemnation from the Muslims and non-Muslims alike, and it turned the American public vehemently against the Palestinian cause. Mossad works through surrogates, which are recruited from the same ethnic group, against whom the operation is being launched. Mossad does not send its own agents to do operations in other countries; they recruit locals and train them by being part of a religious group (read in By Way of Deception).-\r\nhttp:\/\/www.pakdef.info\/forum\/showthread.php?t=5500\r\n\r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 16:25:07","modified":"2013-11-11 00:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":180584,"heading":"How many times must we do this?","article":"Sheepster, see that I'm echoing your header? That's cuz I agree with it. I don't give a crap what some rotten apple in the Mossad wrote in his goddamned book. I told you this weeks if not months ago. We've been through this. Hurling this propagandistic murder apologist doodoo each time anew won't lend it more credence! This lie ranks right up there with the lie that Ariel Sharon ascended the Temple Mount to provoke a violent Palestinian reaction when in truth he had coordinated the visit with the Waqf in advance.\r\n\r\nYour distraction is hereby thrown out.","author":"hexi-gone","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 16:35:30","modified":"2006-10-01 16:35:30","fileurl":""},{"id":180586,"heading":"yeah , nobody likes a snitch","article":"And nobody likes an informer either.\r\nYou did what to this expose'?\r\nOh yeah,protest w\/o anything to back it up save your worship of other assassins. The ones who don't snitch.","author":"Sheepdog thinks it's sweet.","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 16:40:01","modified":"2006-10-01 16:40:01","fileurl":""},{"id":180587,"heading":"unwrapping the BS","article":"'Ariel Sharon ascended the Temple Mount'\r\nDon't forget to mention the troops and weapons he brought along to ascend .","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 16:43:40","modified":"2006-10-01 16:43:40","fileurl":""},{"id":180589,"heading":"Not forgetting","article":"I know you have an aversion to the idea that Jewish leaders have the right to police escorts. How could I have not known that all those Muslims on the Mount that eventful day were sweet law abiding, peace seeking angels and no Muslims could ever fancy the notion of attacking a Sharon bereft of any escort, armed or not?","author":"sheepishism","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 16:54:33","modified":"2006-10-01 16:54:33","fileurl":""},{"id":180594,"heading":"police escort?","article":"Is that what you call it?\r\n\r\nOkay then, I understand how Korea was just a police action.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 17:39:44","modified":"2006-10-01 17:39:44","fileurl":""},{"id":180596,"heading":"Don't quite get your drift","article":"You claimed Sharon "brought along" troops. Yet no soldiers were present that day on the Mount with him or before\/after his ascent. A typical ultra-leftist anti-Zionist tactic is to insist the border police troopers are soldiers (sort of the way things are like in North Korea?). \r\n\r\nI don't think you understand, or particularly care, that Palestinians had smuggled some weapons into the Mount. Rocks had surely been present there, ready to be lifted in a moment's notice for rioting. If they're used against the Jewish untermenschen why would you care. ","author":"Dung the sheepster","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 17:53:45","modified":"2006-10-01 17:53:45","fileurl":""},{"id":180603,"heading":""sheepster"","article":"sheepster is a term of endearment I use for him\r\n\r\nyou're twisting it into an insult\r\n\r\nbut that's what trolls do - no ?\r\n\r\n\r\ndon't you have a "ball game" to go to or something ?\r\n\r\nor maybe get the better half on the horn to complain about cable TV channels he's obsessed with ?\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 18:32:27","modified":"2006-10-01 18:32:27","fileurl":""},{"id":180607,"heading":"the other side","article":"' police escorts.' -- 'Ariel Sharon ascended the Temple Mount'\r\n\r\n-In September 2000, Ariel Sharon marched to the Muslim holy places - above the site of the Jewish Temple Mount - accompanied by about a thousand Israeli policemen.-\r\nhttp:\/\/www.informationclearinghouse.info\/article11479.htm\r\n\r\ninteresting perspective from Robert Fisk","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 20:31:59","modified":"2006-10-01 20:31:59","fileurl":""},{"id":180612,"heading":"Why aren't Jews allowed to visit their holy places?","article":"On September 28, 2000, Likud leader Ariel Sharon went to visit the Temple Mount \u2013 Judaism\u2019s holiest place, which Muslims have renamed Haram al-Sharif and regard as Islam\u2019s third holiest place. Since that time, Palestinians have engaged in a violent insurrection that has been dubbed the "al-Aksa intifada."\r\n\r\nPalestinian spokesmen maintained the violence was caused by the desecration of a Muslim holy place \u2013 Haram al-Sharif \u2013 by Sharon and the \u201cthousands of Israeli soldiers\u201d who accompanied him. The violence, they said, was carried out through unprovoked attacks by Israeli forces, which invaded Palestinian-controlled territories and \u201cmassacred\u201d defenseless Palestinian civilians, who merely threw stones in self-defense.\r\n\r\nIn fact, Israel's Internal Security Minister Shlomo Ben-Ami permitted Sharon to visit the Temple Mount only after calling Palestinian security chief Jabril Rajoub and receiving his assurance that if Sharon did not enter the mosques, no problems would arise. The need to protect Sharon arose when Rajoub later said that the Palestinian police would do nothing to prevent violence during the visit.\r\n\r\nSharon did not attempt to enter any mosques and his 34 minute visit was conducted during normal hours when the area is open to tourists. Palestinian youths \u2014 eventually numbering around 1,500 \u2014 shouted slogans in an attempt to inflame the situation. Some 1,500 Israeli police were present at the scene to forestall violence. \r\n\r\nIn addition, official Palestinian Authority media exhorted the Palestinians to violence. On September 29, the Voice of Palestine, the PA's official radio station sent out calls "to all Palestinians to come and defend the al-Aksa mosque." The PA closed its schools and bused Palestinian students to the Temple Mount to participate in the organized riots.","author":"just wondering","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 21:21:53","modified":"2013-11-11 00:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":180615,"heading":"Gee... I don't know, Manerd.","article":"-Why aren't Jews allowed to visit their holy places?-\r\n uh, I thought it was the armed butchers of refugee camps that were frowned upon 'visiting' these sites with a thousand 'police'.\r\n\r\n' and \u201cmassacred\u201d defenseless Palestinian civilians, who merely threw stones in self-defense'\r\nI guess the quotations mean they really don't get massacred? Like it's a mistake? Disarm the dreadful Palestinians, remove all stones and tunnels for smuggling stones.\r\nThis is intolerable.\r\n\r\n","author":"Maybe 'cause they deficate all over?","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 21:41:12","modified":"2013-11-11 00:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":180618,"heading":"hey hows it going there TW","article":""We keep getting these big splashy "Al Qaeda terror plots" hyped in our faces, but somehow they're never aimed at Israel, the one country on earth that "Islamic extremists" hands-down hate the most. \r\n\r\nIsn't that curious? "\r\n\r\nI noticed that too - besides the fact that he's a CIA asset anyway - the manufactured boogyman\r\n\r\nLike Goldstein in 1984..\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 22:19:30","modified":"2006-10-01 22:19:30","fileurl":""},{"id":180619,"heading":"anti-Jew or anti- zionist?","article":"'Jews REPEATEDLY!!!' ---are linked to Zionism by the agents of Zionism.\r\nWe all know it's their only major playcard. Zionists don't mind killing Jews or anyone else. But they're the 1st ones to run behind their rabbi's robes when they do schmutziges Gesch\u00e4ft and get caught..","author":"Hmmmmmm","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 22:33:17","modified":"2013-11-11 00:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":180626,"heading":""Zionists don't mind killing Jews or anyone else."","article":"During the 1940s, better than half of the Stern Gang's murder victims were Israeli Jews deemed to be collaborating with the British. Such were the rabid maniacs who went on to become top Israeli military, intelligence, and political officials. This explains the present character of Israel's government ENTIRELY\r\n\r\nAnd they have the GALL to pompously condemn terrorism when it comes their way! It is to laugh! They were the entire inspiration for everything the Palestinians have done. They showed them unequivocally that it could actually WORK. \r\n\r\nOne of these bawling moaners brought up airliner hijackings as something the PLO did. HAHAHAHAHAA! Psychotic Israeli zionists INVENTED THE GENRE!!! They beat Arafat to it BY FOURTEEN YEARS!!!\r\n\r\nfrom http:\/\/www.counterpunch.org\/gaffney02042004.html :\r\n"Without PM Sharrett's knowledge or approval, Dayan and Lavon ordered a series of military raids and adventures along the Syrian border and in the West Bank, which at this time was part of Jordan, and also in Egypt. One of these provocations was \r\nTHE WORLD'S FIRST AIRLINE HIJACKING. \r\nOn December 12, 1954 Israeli warplanes forced a Syrian commercial airliner to land in Israel, where passengers and crew were detained for two days, until a storm of international protest brought about their release."","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 23:31:30","modified":"2006-10-01 23:31:30","fileurl":""},{"id":180628,"heading":"no kidding","article":"' inspiration for everything the Palestinians have done'\r\n\r\nI'm appalled about it I tell you. Who exactly showed the Palestinian over burden how to use those sling shots, eh? I'll tell you. The 'Jews ' did.\r\nNow the Palestinians are rampaging around like drugged cockroaches in a bottle, behind multiple zones of razor wire and 10 meter high walls with snipers and machine gun emplacements; with these awful things.\r\nBastards.","author":"those bastards","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-01 23:48:21","modified":"2006-10-01 23:48:21","fileurl":""},{"id":180630,"heading":"Wel, there's this","article":" but somehow they're never aimed at Israel, the one country on earth that "Islamic extremists" hands-down hate the most.\r\n\r\nIsn't that curious?\r\n\r\nJERUSALEM AND BEIRUT \u2013 Al Qaeda, which originally announced its presence on the global scene in 1998 as "The World Islamic Front for Jihad against the Jews and Crusaders," for the first time has claimed an attack on the Jewish state from neighboring Lebanon.\r\n\r\nAbu Musab Zarqawi, the commander of Al Qaeda's Middle East branch, issued a warning to Israel on the group's website, boasting that Katyusha rockets fired two weeks ago from southern Lebanon were just the "beginning of a welcome operation to strike deep in enemy territory, at the instructions of Osama bin Laden."\r\n\r\n","author":"for starters","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 00:47:26","modified":"2013-11-11 00:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":180631,"heading":"ghosts and stuff","article":"'at the instructions of Osama bin Laden' ---\r\n---from the afterlife? Don't we have enough problems from the living dead like Cheney? Now we need ghost busters.","author":"Dod Tamat","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 00:55:36","modified":"2006-10-02 00:55:36","fileurl":""},{"id":180633,"heading":"Agents, enablers","article":"TW: Such were the rabid maniacs who went on to become top Israeli military, intelligence, and political officials. This explains the present character of Israel's government ENTIRELY.......\r\n\r\n70 years ago is like yesterday to TW. "Because its symbolic, thats why. Because it indicates the character of dem Joos, thats why. Because if one Jew anywhere did anything wrong, ever, the entire tribe is to be condemned, from now to eternity!!!!!"\r\n\r\n\r\nFrom Einstein Colliers Magazine Nov. 26 1938\r\n"When the Germans lost the World War hatched by their ruling class, immediate attempts were made to blame the Jews, first for instigating the war then for losing it. In the course of time, sucess attended these efforts. The hatred engendered against the Jews not only protected the privileged classes, but enabled a small unscupulous and insolent group to place the German people in a state of complete bondage"\r\n\r\nYep. Jews as scapegoats. Happened in 1938, happens now. TW and his ilk are agents and enablers of anti-semitism. To allow them to remain unchallenged endangers us all. Thats why I'm here, Hex.","author":"and anti-Semites","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 01:01:41","modified":"2006-10-02 01:01:41","fileurl":""},{"id":180634,"heading":"No one won the contest","article":"HERE WERE THE TWO QUESTIONS:\r\n\r\n1. Who said the following?\r\n2. And in what article was it quoted?\r\n\r\n\r\n"I BELIEVE in Israeli democracy. It is an incredible phenomenon, considering where most Israeli citizens or their parents came from: Czarist and Communist Russia, the Poland of Pilsudsky and his heirs, Morocco, Iraq, Iran and Syria--in addition to those born in colonial Palestine under the rule of the British High Commissioner. Like the resurrection of the Hebrew language, which has no parallel in the world, this democracy is a miracle. (This means, of course, democracy in Israel proper. In the occupied territories, a very different situation prevails.)\r\n\r\nANSWER: 1. Uri Averny\r\n2. in the lead article for this thread","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 01:08:58","modified":"2006-10-02 01:08:58","fileurl":""},{"id":180640,"heading":"TW's conundrum","article":"TW WRITES: "\r\nZionists are such disgusting desperate self-centered pigs!"\r\n\r\nBECKY: Given that pork is a forbidden meat under Jewish kosher law, it is especially offensive to call Jewish people "pigs."\r\n\r\nNow I KNOW the TW is going to claims that Zionists aren't Jewish. In a way he's right. The early Zionists WERE Jewish, but mostly secular, non-religious Jews. In Israel today, you will find very few Israelis who do not believe that the Jews have a right to Israel today. Hence, they qualify as Zionists. However, TW does NOT mean the 1.4 million Arab\/Israelis who are Muslims when he condemns "Zionists."\r\n\r\nSo for TW, the Zionists are pretty much a bunch of Jews.\r\n\r\nAnd calling Jews "pigs" is racist, right?\r\n\r\nOther readers might remember the consternation over the sign one of the protesters carried at the Sept 10th protest outside the King Faahd Mosque? \r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.la.indymedia.org\/news\/2006\/09\/177883_comment.php#177899\r\n\r\n The woman's sign was called a "racist" sign because it called the followers of Islam "pigs"\r\n\r\nIf THAT sign was racist, then TW's post is ALSO racist.\r\n\r\nLook, if you are against racism, then you are against it whereever it occurs. If you are an anti-semite, then you have no problem with racism against Zionists, Jews, or Israelis.\r\n\r\nIf you call one instance "racist" and allow the other, then you are not an anti-semite. You are a hypocrite.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 01:31:51","modified":"2006-10-02 01:31:51","fileurl":""},{"id":180643,"heading":"straw - it's what's for dinner","article":"> Jews have a right to Israel today. Hence, they qualify as Zionists\r\n\r\nnice pigeonhole !\r\n\r\nalmost enough to make you forget the mass murderer war criminal and occupation "small details"\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> So for TW, the Zionists are pretty much a bunch of Jews\r\n\r\nstrawman and rhetorical\r\n\r\n\r\n> If THAT sign was racist, then TW's post is ALSO racist.\r\n\r\nanother strawman\r\n\r\n\r\n> then you are not an anti-semite. You are a hypocrite. \r\n\r\nwell that's refreshing - NOT an anti-semite for once :)\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 01:41:55","modified":"2006-10-02 01:41:55","fileurl":""},{"id":180658,"heading":"easy answers","article":"zionists have a special set of rules and expectations for themselves - it's only natural they take exception to analogies that they have no problem applying to any and everyone else\r\n\r\nthat's part of being a zionist is - the chosen people\r\n\r\nit's an essential part of their identity..\r\n\r\n\r\nthe source isn't cited whenever it's an unabashed pure propaganda source\r\n\r\nthey just hope you'll swallow it per chance :)\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 03:04:03","modified":"2006-10-02 03:04:03","fileurl":""},{"id":180660,"heading":"What's left to say","article":"Have your jackboots polished and your brownshirt ironed for tomorrow?\r\n\r\n"If a majority of Jews have allowed themselves to be sucked into Jabotinskyite fascism [sic], I can't help that. They STILL deserve to be called "pigs," just like Hitler's followers, just like Bush's. \r\n\r\n"If Jews resent being called pigs, I suggest they take more care not to lay down with them "\r\n\r\nAnd this is why we the progressive and sane dismiss you and despise you as a card carrying goosestepper and uebermensch scum.","author":"Well, Tee Wdumbya","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-10-02 03:08:21","modified":"2006-10-02 03:08:21","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/09\/fuck_off__naziboy.jpg0ieusd.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/09\/fuck_off__naziboy.jpg0ieusd.jpg"}},{"id":180664,"heading":"No wonder he gets along so well with Truth Warper","article":"They're peas in a pod after all.\r\n\r\n"zionists have a special set of rules and expectations for themselves - it's only natural they take exception to analogies that they have no problem applying to any and everyone else \r\n\r\n"that's part of being a zionist is - the chosen people \r\n\r\n"it's an essential part of their identity.. "\r\n\r\nNot that you use "Zionist" as a codeword for Jew or you're an antisemite, no sirrreeeeee. Since you're a racist and proud of it, I'm not about to try and educate you on the concept of the Chosen People -- why it's not what you think. Maybe Tia or Johnson will, but I don't have this sort of tolerance for racists in me now.\r\n\r\nI expect you to try and wiggle out of being accused of vile antisemitism with your usual inane rhetorical tricks as if you were a poor man's 'nessie'. It doesn't work, save within your own miserable mind.\r\n\r\nI also notice that you're NOT condemning TW for his racist remarks in any way, shape or form. Your pretense to be for peace or call for peace above all else is a sham. We the "Zionists" posting here see right through your charades.","author":"hexi-gone","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 03:30:15","modified":"2006-10-02 03:30:15","fileurl":""},{"id":180665,"heading":""we the progressive" HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAAA","article":"Yeah, right. Germany had "progressives" like you once. So did Italy and Spain and Portugal. Nowadays the big destination for "progressives" like you is over at the OTHER end of the Mediterranean. You get to drive around in tanks just like Rommel and subject the untermenschen to exquisite sadisms just like Mengele and keep everybody confused with brilliant propaganda just like Goebbels and... ","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 03:35:30","modified":"2006-10-02 03:35:30","fileurl":""},{"id":180668,"heading":"Your verbal diarrhea is just for naught","article":"You've outed yourself for the kazillionth time as an overt goosestepper and anything you say now in defense of yourself is yet more verbal diarrhea. You're dismissed as an unrepentant racist. Give regards to your ultra rightwing counterparts in Germany.\r\n\r\n","author":"someone sane","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 03:41:30","modified":"2006-10-02 03:41:30","fileurl":""},{"id":180669,"heading":"More zionist strawman games. They lie because they have to","article":""Your pretense to be for peace or call for peace..." \r\n\r\nThat's his pretense? I don't remember him wrapping himself in that one. Maybe it's time to think up some new strawmen, CunT. These old ones you already used to death about five years ago","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 03:45:00","modified":"2006-10-02 03:45:00","fileurl":""},{"id":180670,"heading":"{'We' the "Zionists" posting here}","article":"what a hoot\r\n\r\nyou're just a troll playing the zionist card to have something to troll about\r\n\r\nfirst it was "all liberals are moonbats"\r\n\r\nthen "death to all Muslims"\r\n\r\nthen "Ann is god and I want to be just like her when I grow up"\r\n\r\nthen "I'm just here for amusement as I gleefully play with you"\r\n\r\nnow it's "we the zionists"\r\n\r\nthe soup of the day selection is ?\r\n\r\n-anything as long as you're at the trough","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-10-02 03:45:32","modified":"2006-10-02 03:45:32","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/09\/pig_trough.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/09\/pig_trough.jpg"}},{"id":180673,"heading":"You've pegged the wrong person","article":"First, I am a Zionist and in general a member of the untermenschen. Like Tia and Schtarker Yid.\r\n\r\nSecond, you have me laughing at reading all those quotes which never came from my keyboard nor am I familiar with who issued them.\r\n\r\nAs much as I'd like to keep bitchslapping you two lowlifes, I'm going out to run errands so you may have some uninterrupted racist fun with with your co-uebermensch in Jew hatred. Dismissed, unrepentant racist. You too have outed yourself.","author":"no, hexantisemite","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 04:28:09","modified":"2006-10-02 04:28:09","fileurl":""},{"id":180679,"heading":"Dawn breaks","article":"Victor Ostrowsky, a former Mossad agent writes in his book, \u201cBy Way of Deception,.....\r\n\r\nLet me guess, Sheepdog. You haven't actually READ this book, have you? You're just quoting a third hand source....TW pulled this too. I can't tell you how many times I've attempted to verify a "quote" only to find its been falsified\r\nSo Dawg- have you actually read this book or are you just quoting an Internet source that purports to have read it?\r\n\r\nWho to go after, johnK? CT is exactly right- the neighbors.\r\n\r\n"A survey of the political and social life of Weimar reveals that virtually every major institution and group in Germany -- including schools and universities, the military, bureaucracy, and judiciary, professional associations, the churches, and political parties -- was permeated by antisemitism. Many had gone so far as to declare themselves openly and proudly to be antisemitic. A look at what is perhaps the most revealing of them all, the educational institutions, indicates that the youth and young adults of Weimar Germany provided large, willing cadres for the coming Nazi dispensation." -- Daniel Jonah Goldhagen\r\n\r\nFirstly, under the so-called oppression prior to Sep 1993 the Palestinians had it better than in any other period of their existence in the disputed territories. Becky Johnson has shown us this fact on this site time and time again for those willing to learn and remember.\r\n\r\nAgain, right. You tear into Becky precisely because she is so effective\r\nFrom a previous Becky post:\r\n\r\nFrom 1967 to 1993 (The year Arafat was installed as the leader of the Palestinian Authority) Israel built 166 health clinics, expanded sewage, water, and electrification grids. Due to Israeli business investments, the\r\nGNP for the Palestinians increased 13% per year between 1967 and 1980.\r\nIsrael paid universal health insurance for all Palestinians. Israel built 6 Universities and 20 Community Colleges for the Palestinians. Infant mortality rates dropped precipitously and literacy rates soared. They even\r\nbuilt them a sports stadium! When Israel passed civil control of the West Bank and Gaza to Arafat, the unemployment rate among the Palestinians was 5%.\r\n\r\nsource: www.israel-UN-org\/archive\/latest-archive.htm#1999\r\n\r\nIt's just a general thing that happens when you create a colony.\r\n\r\nIn politics and in history, a colony is a territory under the immediate political control of a geographically-distant state.\r\n\r\nOk- so what colony was created? And a colony of what? \r\n","author":"like a bull through the hall","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 08:56:36","modified":"2013-11-11 00:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":180680,"heading":"More","article":"http:\/\/www.albawaba.com\/en\/news\/195040\r\nAl Qaeda attack on Israel\r\n\r\nIsraeli security officials assess that 2006 is the "target year" set by the global al-Qaeda network to carry out a mega-attack in the country, Israel's leading newspaper Yedioth Ahronoth reported Thursday. bin laden\r\n \r\n\r\nAccording to the report, Israeli intelligence authorities detected two years ago the shift in priorities of al Qaeda towards Israel, which has been "upgraded" to the rank of a major target. Recently, al Qaeda chief in Iraq Abu Musab al-Zarqawi declared his intentions to carry out an attack in Israel. \r\n \r\n\r\nThe report added Syria has been identified as a transfer point for al Qaeda members planning to carry out attacks in Jordan and Israel. It should be mentioned that on Wednesday Israeli Deputy Chief of Staff Moshe Kaplinski said that "global Jihad forces" maintain regular bases in Lebanon and Jordan. \r\n\r\nAl-Qaeda in Palestine threatens truck bombings\r\n\r\n \r\nhttp:\/\/www.ynetnews.com\/articles\/0,7340,L-3306861,00.html\r\n\r\nGlobal jihad group takes credit for assassination, warns more attacks on the way\r\n\r\nRAMALLAH \u2013 A group claiming to be al-Qaeda yesterday announced it was behind the assassination last week of a senior Palestinian security official, accusing the officer of "collaborating" with the "Zionists" and the United States.\r\n\r\n The group, calling itself Al-Qaeda in Palestine, warned of more killings. It said its next attack in the region would be "more destructive" and would use "trucks full of explosives."\r\n\r\nPrevious cite from:\r\nhttp:\/\/www.csmonitor.com\/2006\/0113\/p06s01-wome.html","author":"Al qaeda in Israel","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 09:08:34","modified":"2013-11-11 00:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":180681,"heading":"global al-Qaeda network","article":"more threats from the dead...\r\n"Abu Musab al-Zarqawi declared his intentions ' what... to be left alone w\/his dirt nap?\r\nDamn. These terrests are tuff.","author":"al-CIAduh attacks","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 09:15:20","modified":"2006-10-02 09:15:20","fileurl":""},{"id":180682,"heading":"another quick responce","article":"'Ok- so what colony was created? And a colony of what? '\r\nGlad you asked that.\r\nI would call them the general, rich, well connected assholes who decided to implement a rat-like escape from Nazi Germany.\r\nAnd quotes from Israel 's ideological and future political leaders [ of which there are entire threads devoted to] support the thesis that these ASSHOLES not only didn't care what happened to most of the Jews in Occupied Europe but actually hindered the attempts to target the death camp infrastructure by bombing the railways into these camps.\r\nOOoooooo! ","author":"from Sheepdog w\/luv","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 09:26:24","modified":"2006-10-02 09:26:24","fileurl":""},{"id":180684,"heading":"addendum...","article":"Now this is what bothers me.\r\nWhy didn't the 7th Army Air Core ever bomb the rail lines into these camps?\r\nAre there ANY excuses besides the one that went like this\r\n'we didn't want reprisals against the Jews' \r\nor something like that.\r\nI guess we didn't want the guards at any number of I.G. Farbin or General Motors or Ford, German, war\/profit enterprises to receive ill treatment, huh?","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 09:40:18","modified":"2006-10-02 09:40:18","fileurl":""},{"id":180685,"heading":"Give me a quote","article":"And quotes from Israel 's ideological and future political leaders [ of which there are entire threads devoted to] ...\r\n\r\nThose quotes were as false, darling...and have been de-bunked, line by line. Wanna try again...?\r\n\r\nIts the big lie- you keep repeating this crap over and over- you read it on Stromfront, you read it on rense, you read it on national alliance, well, hell, it must be true.but you know what, its not.\r\n\r\n\r\n"Anti-Semitism is nothing but the antagonistic attitude produced in the\r\nnon-Jew by the Jewish group.The Jewish group has thrived on oppression and\r\non the antagonism it has forever met in the world... the root cause is their\r\nuse of enemies they create in order to keep solidarity..."\r\n\r\nTW been' rolling in this one for a year. I've got the article in front of me. Its a lie. \r\nWithout history and truth on your side, I guess all you have left are lies.\r\n","author":"I'll deconstruct it for you","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 09:40:18","modified":"2006-10-02 09:40:18","fileurl":""},{"id":180686,"heading":"From Tia","article":"And quotes from Israel 's ideological and future political leaders [ of which there are entire threads devoted to] ...\r\n\r\nThose quotes were as false, darling...and have been de-bunked, line by line. Wanna try again...?\r\n\r\nIts the big lie- you keep repeating this crap over and over- you read it on Stromfront, you read it on rense, you read it on national alliance, well, hell, it must be true.but you know what, its not.\r\n\r\n\r\n"Anti-Semitism is nothing but the antagonistic attitude produced in the\r\nnon-Jew by the Jewish group.The Jewish group has thrived on oppression and\r\non the antagonism it has forever met in the world... the root cause is their\r\nuse of enemies they create in order to keep solidarity..."\r\n\r\nTW been' rolling in this one for a year. I've got the article in front of me. Its a lie. \r\nWithout history and truth on your side, I guess all you have left are lies.","author":"with thinly veiled mockery and scorn","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 09:40:18","modified":"2006-10-02 09:40:18","fileurl":""},{"id":180688,"heading":"i would have guessed you'd be thrilled","article":" Why didn't the 7th Army Air Core ever bomb the rail lines into these camps?\r\n\r\nThat bothers YOU? The organized Jewish community begged Roosevelt to bomb the tracks. Full page ads were taken in newspapers, trying to mobilize the community, in an effort to pressure the politicians.\r\n\r\nBut the politicians DIDN'T CARE. Nothing happened. \r\n\r\nOnly reason 123 when i don't trust the dominent culture to "take care of me", when push comes to shove.\r\n\r\nIts all too clear we're on our own.\r\n\r\n","author":"by the prospect of more dead Jews","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 09:49:02","modified":"2006-10-02 09:49:02","fileurl":""},{"id":180696,"heading":"damned right they didn't","article":"'But the politicians DIDN'T CARE. Nothing happened'\r\n\r\nYou're correct. The rabbis were pleading, the public was pleading the horrors of these camps were well known about.\r\n\r\nI guess you didn't actually read the part where I mentioned profit, did you?","author":"yea","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 10:29:13","modified":"2006-10-02 10:29:13","fileurl":""},{"id":180698,"heading":"On chemtrails, witless barbs","article":"How many times must 'i' tell you, Tia. Kiss off.\r\nAnd what makes you think I care about your opinion? Even a bit?\r\n\r\n Your witless barbs are interrupting my various plans to take over the world and create a Utopia o Justice.\r\n\r\nI understand chemtrails and get rich quick scams are somehow involved......\r\n\r\nHey. I like certain Jews. Not you, of course\r\n\r\n"some of my best friends are Jews. really" Uh huh.\r\nAnd what makes you think I care about your opinion? Even a bit?\r\n\r\n. Your agenda is dangerous to these friends of mine some of which are very close. And Jewish, as if I even gave a fuck.\r\n\r\nMy agenda? Does it involve chemtrails and get rich quick schemes? Do elaborate\r\n\r\n","author":"and barbless wits","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 10:39:44","modified":"2006-10-02 10:39:44","fileurl":""},{"id":180699,"heading":"hey that's right","article":"I knew you were working w\/ TW?Hex but do you have to share the same gibbering script?\r\n\r\nAlways a laugh.","author":"yukles","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 10:42:48","modified":"2006-10-02 10:42:48","fileurl":""},{"id":180701,"heading":"This is all a dream we dreamed","article":""I knew you were working w\/ TW?Hex "\r\n\r\nTW and Hex are the same person? \r\nAnd they\/he "work" with me? In what capacity? Can they be "man servants"? Please? (No misandry intended, btw)\r\n\r\nAnd I'm the same person as Megafauna and Becky?\r\n\r\nMaybe you are all alone on this thread Dawg, and "we" are all just voices in your head. \r\nAnd the nice young men in their clean white coats will be coming for you. Soon.","author":"one afternoon long ago","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 10:54:22","modified":"2006-10-02 10:54:22","fileurl":""},{"id":180702,"heading":"tell me about it","article":"It does seem like the ward for the criminally insane.\r\n\r\nAs anyone could see for themselves by reading the various threads. But isn't that why you're here?","author":"I know...","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 11:11:06","modified":"2006-10-02 11:11:06","fileurl":""},{"id":180704,"heading":"Why","article":"I am here:\r\n\r\nBecause Google picks up Indymedia. An uninformed person could stumble into this site, read the lies, and if they are unchallenged, actually believe them\r\n\r\nBecause learning about the anti-Semitic mind gets me better prepared for street protests and direct action. (ie: Nessie and TW taught me all about agent provaceteurs, and when I finally met one, I was completely prepared. Thanks, guys!)\r\n\r\nBecause those that will run to do evil need to know that there will be those to challenge them. Always. Lies wil be confronted. We will not ignore anti-Semitism in the hopes that it will go away.\r\n\r\nBecause there is no point in talking only to those I agree with. I cling to the hope that dialog and interaction will serve as a bridge, not a barrier to improving human interactions.\r\n\r\nThats why I'm here.","author":"I am here","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 11:23:52","modified":"2006-10-02 11:23:52","fileurl":""},{"id":180710,"heading":"They KNOW because they ARE ALQAIDA.","article":""Israeli intelligence authorities claim"\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nhahahhahaaa\r\n\r\noh yeah - I'd trust them with my very life "by deception thou shalt make war"\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nIsraeli agents accused of creating fake al-Qaeda cell\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.smh.com.au\/articles\/2002\/12\/08\/1038950271656.html\r\n\r\n\r\nThere was a joke that sort of went like this: One day Gorbachev was complaining about the inconsistencies of their security agencies reporting, he was saying: Indira Ghandi gets assasinated we get informed two days later, Pope gets assasinated we get informed two days ahead of it!!\r\n\r\n These Israeli reporting is sort of like that. It is interesting that all these times Al Qaeda has never attempted or targeted an Israeli target. \r\n\r\nI find it such an odd coincidence. Israel has never been a target for Al Qaeda never mind being a top priority for it.\r\n\r\n I thought Bin Laden didn\u2019t care much for Israel. We could not guess from Bin Laden\u2019s actions. \r\n\r\nAs mafia wise guys say:" Forget about it!!","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 12:04:53","modified":"2013-11-11 00:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":180714,"heading":"LaTuff should be rejected completely","article":"HEX: LaTuff is one of the most anti-semitic cartoonists working today. If you think you are making points by publishing his work, you are not. You are only showing your own bias and elevating the work of someone who should be disdained and rejected rather than promoted.","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 12:24:38","modified":"2006-10-02 12:24:38","fileurl":""},{"id":180715,"heading":"Note to John K","article":"NOTE TO JOHN K: TW posts my photo above with this caption:\r\n\r\n"well_heres_a_zionist_sow_.jpg, image\/jpeg, 314x600"\r\n\r\nPlease remove this offensive post.\r\n\r\nWhile I don't self-identify as a Zionist, referrring to Zionists, Arabs, Palestinians, Jews, or Israelis as "pigs" is racist and offensive.\r\n\r\nAccording to the LA.IMC guidelines, this should be removed.\r\n","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 12:28:37","modified":"2006-10-02 12:28:37","fileurl":""},{"id":180716,"heading":"israel is a mad animal","article":"No one would dare touch israel. Unless someone really wants to have a nuclear attack from israel. I shudder when I see all the propaganda slanted towards *other* nations !* probably *! having them. Frightening the population [ well duh, it's what they do...] and preparing the psyops for a selected alleged perp. Like the now 19 savage arab myth.\r\nAny nuke would most likely be israeli. Because, as we all know, none of them [ thermonuclear \/ neutron payloads ] are even 'there'.\r\n\r\nAnd speaking of rabid rabbis, here are some VERY accreted rabbis distain the quality of mercy...\r\nAs if they needed the prompt.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/la.indymedia.org\/news\/2006\/08\/176233.php\r\nUS rabbis urge change in IDF war code ","author":"with, like - rabies","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 12:39:01","modified":"2006-10-02 12:39:01","fileurl":""},{"id":180718,"heading":""should be rejected completely"","article":"Latuff is one of the most effective political artists in the world\r\n\r\nHe has a way of showing in very easy to understand ways exactly how the zionist lie operates - by ignoring the oppression and occupation, the mass murdering war criminals, then flooding the media with propaganda to distract us from these facts and try to elevate the zionist agenda at the expense of whole races and classes of people\r\n\r\nthen yelling "anti-semitic" at anyone who dares bring up these issues to try to silence them - exactly the topic of this thread and exactly the subject Latuff is showing above\r\n\r\n"should be" - no one cares what you think "should be"\r\n\r\nthis keeps being expressed over & over again and yet somehow you never seem to get it\r\n\r\nonly you DO get it and your presence here is really due to a darker agenda that doesn't care about or respect the other people here - staff OR patrons\r\n\r\nI pointed this out to you yesterday\r\n\r\nas bad as you can claim I am I *do* have respect for this newswire, it's staff and it's authentic patrons (as opposed to made moles)\r\n\r\neven in sheepdog's case other than a specific issue we mostly agree and get along (yes he does go into extended blood rages where he would like nothing more than to kill me, mince me into little pieces then grind me under his boots into the dirt until there's nothing left but a blood stain on his heel - but that's beside the point)\r\n\r\neven with such extreme emotions at play we can *still* agree and discuss some subjects civilly\r\n\r\na vital aspect of being civil is acknowledging the positions of other people and *keeping them in mind* upon further discourse.\r\n\r\nThis is where you totally fail\r\n\r\nYou willfully *disregard and defy* the other person's positions and the desires and wishes of all involved\r\n\r\nthis reduces your so-called reason of wanting to "educate" us into nothing more than flooding\/spamming pro-zionist propaganda\r\n\r\nthis gives it away - and gives YOU away\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 13:22:22","modified":"2006-10-02 13:22:22","fileurl":""},{"id":180719,"heading":"nonsense","article":"Not besides the point at all.\r\n\r\n"yes he does go into extended blood rages where he would like nothing more than to kill me, mince me into little pieces then grind me under his boots into the dirt until there's nothing left but a blood stain on his heel - but that's beside the point" [parentheses, removed]\r\n\r\n[You see, Hex I really don't ever need to lay a finger on you.\r\nI just pull up your past to flog you with. Oh & BTW, since my neticut sucks, and in view of you being the 'left' gate keeper, you merely disgust me. And paint me as a blood thirsty psychopath. I am, of course [ my mean ol dad taught me quite a few field craft smarts, going into my adolescence ] but no physical harm would ever befall anyone who left me or mine alone. You on the other hand, have posted false witness against me, your lord. ]\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 13:36:13","modified":"2006-10-02 13:36:13","fileurl":""},{"id":180720,"heading":"[ fear not the sword of Sheepdog]","article":"I tend to forgive after toying, badgering,mocking, reminding and to otherwise harp and harp and harp. It's better to ruin someone's time than hurt them.\r\nStick around.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 13:42:53","modified":"2006-10-02 13:42:53","fileurl":""},{"id":180722,"heading":"right for his audience","article":""Latuff is one of the most effective political artists in the world"\r\n\r\n... for those whose understanding of the Mideast is stuck in the pre-adolescent cartoon stage. Fortunately for Latuff, this covers the most vocal anti-Zionists here, each of which seems to have his own category of mental health problem (except for Toady, of course, who is simply stooopid).\r\n\r\n@%<","author":"gehrig","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 14:01:57","modified":"2006-10-02 14:01:57","fileurl":""},{"id":180723,"heading":"well I'm dead now","article":""pull up your past to flog you with"\r\n\r\nis it working ? :)\r\n\r\n\r\n"no physical harm would ever befall anyone who left me or mine alone"\r\n\r\nthat doesn't sound too comforting when followed by -\r\n\r\n"You on the other hand, have posted false witness against me, your lord"\r\n\r\nsounds like the last part nullifies the disclaimer...\r\n\r\nbut who is "me" ?\r\n\r\na nickname with no connection to anyone in the real world (according to yourself)\r\n\r\n\r\nso put this all together and we have ?\r\n\r\n\r\noh and BTW - my "painting you as a bloodthirsty psychopath" is because it frightens me since I'm not a violent person - if we met up and it turned out you ARE said psychopath, I have to inform you (with sadness) that I would be dead meat as my religion prohibits me from killing even in self-defense (that's why I told TW that I would surrender, too)\r\n\r\nI don't equate running off at the mouth with physical harm or murder so in such cases where I have to face those who do I am required to let them *have their way*\r\n\r\nYou win\r\n\r\nit was thermite, uranium is killing us all, chemtrails are killing us all, enmod is killing us all, haarp is killing us all and mind control is making us all kill eachother (except me - you can just kill me if you want to)\r\n\r\noh - and you're not billder\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 14:05:07","modified":"2006-10-02 14:05:07","fileurl":""},{"id":180726,"heading":"babbling doen't helo your case","article":"If you continue babbling forever you may choke on your own spit.\r\nisrael is the threat with its nuclear arsenal.\r\nAnd a far cry from your noise.\r\nAs is to be expected.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 14:15:38","modified":"2006-10-02 14:15:38","fileurl":""},{"id":180732,"heading":"Another stooopid","article":""No one would dare touch israel."\r\n\r\nAstute knowledge of history there:\r\n\r\nForgetting about 1948, 1956, 1967, 1973? Forgetting about over 800 Kassan rockets launched at Israel from Gaza?","author":"comment","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 14:33:48","modified":"2006-10-02 14:33:48","fileurl":""},{"id":180736,"heading":"Gaza or what?","article":"Get your facts straight.\r\n'Israel' is a criminal occupation.\r\n\r\nThen we can discuss levels of death and destruction.","author":"That's occupied Palestine","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 14:49:23","modified":"2006-10-02 14:49:23","fileurl":""},{"id":180737,"heading":"There has never been","article":"Israel acquired Gaza and Sinai from Egypt in 1967 (Returned Sinai in exchange for peace, btw- tried to do the same with Gaza, btw). Israel acquired Judea and Samaria from Jordan. \r\nSo what exactly is Israel occupying?","author":""Palestine"","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 14:53:14","modified":"2006-10-02 14:53:14","fileurl":""},{"id":180747,"heading":"you're mistaken again","article":"'Israel' is an artificial construct 'given to 'Jews' by lord Balfor because lord Rothchild was bugering the financial begeezus out of lord Balfore.\r\nFunny how the occupants [ Palestinians who are the occupied ] of the only legitimate [ which is Palestine ] state [ who, by the vast majority didn't buy into being kicked off their land by their new landlords and were never asked about the displacement and subsequent zionist slaughters of their people and who will now call them 'squatters ] are made illegitimate by the colonizers by constructing an inverted view of reality..\r\nMake the Invaders the victims and the subjects of open genocide the aggressors.\r\nIsn't that why ya'll are here?","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 16:48:41","modified":"2006-10-02 16:48:41","fileurl":""},{"id":180748,"heading":"From Ziff: The Rape of Palestine 1938","article":""We should expect to find an exodus of Arabs from lands where Jews are settled. But exactly the opposite is true: it is precisely in the vicinity of those Jewish villages that Arab development is most marked. Arab Haifa, profiting from the Jewish boom grew from 1922 to 1936 by 130%, Jaffa by 80% and Jerusalem by 55%...In the vicinity of the Jewish villages Arab workers earn twice the wage paid in other parts of Palestine. \r\n\r\nOnce the poorest , sorriest population in this whole section of poverty stricken masses, the Arabs of Palestine are now the richest per capita of their race" \r\n\r\nSo many Arabs FLOCKED to Palestine, following the Jewish settlers. and the prosperity they brought. \r\nHardly there for GENERATIONS!!!!!\r\n\r\n"Fully 75% of the area in Jewish hands morever has not known the plough for centuries. The northern colonies in Galilee were built on land rendered impossible for life since roman times because of marsh and endemic disease. Tel Aviv was erected on sand dunes which were considered without monetary value. The great granary, the valley of Jezreel, now nestling so trim and green in the shining sun, wa sso deserted and pestilential when Jews bought it that it was said any bird trying to cross it would fall dead in its flight." \r\n\r\n\r\nZiff's thesis is that the British sought to strangle the 'Jewish national Home' under the weight of British regulations and Arab terrorism. Ziff supports the thesis well. \r\n\r\nThe chapter on the administration of criminal law was chilling. Arab murderers' of Jews given 6 months because the death was unintentional, the goal was merely rape. Jewish security guards given 20 years hard labor for killing an Arab terrorist attacker.\r\n\r\nAccording to this book, the "Jews of Jerusalem constitute 72 % of its souls" Thats goes current opinions. \r\n\r\n Ziff says "In the case of the peasants who sold to the Jews, with the exceptionof a bare five percent who bettered themself in urban pursuits, all remained on the land. Most of them sold only part of their acres and with the money obtained got out of debt for the first time in their lives. Within the past 6 years the debt of the Arab cultivator has been reduced by 60% while his income has sharply increased. The most solicitous prodding of the Government over the last ten yearshas not been able to bring forth more than 664 Arab families that could come under the definition of displaced\r\n\r\n","author":"written 1938","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 17:07:39","modified":"2006-10-02 17:07:39","fileurl":""},{"id":180777,"heading":"this uebermensch shepes","article":"Raving anti-Zionist (cough-cough) revisionist:\r\n"Funny how the occupants [ Palestinians who are the occupied ] of the only legitimate [ which is Palestine ] state [ who, by the vast majority didn't buy into being kicked off their land by their new landlords and were never asked about the displacement and subsequent zionist slaughters of their people and who will now call them 'squatters ] are made illegitimate by the colonizers by constructing an inverted view of reality.. \r\nMake the Invaders the victims and the subjects of open genocide the aggressors. "\r\n\r\nCould it (he) get more desperate? More mendacious?\r\n\r\n\r\nRaving anti-Zionist (cough-cough) revisionist:\r\n"'Israel' is an artificial construct 'given to 'Jews' [sic] by lord Balfor [sic] because lord [sic] Rothchild was bugering the financial begeezus out of lord Balfore [sic]. "\r\n\r\nCould it (he) get more racist? More in denial?","author":"hee hee. Damn","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 20:49:36","modified":"2006-10-02 20:49:36","fileurl":""},{"id":180781,"heading":""Could he get more"","article":"well he's not exactly the brightest bulb in the string - true\r\n\r\nbut then again other than being a spell-check zombie and attacking the messeger while having only unsupported pro-zionist propaganda to rely on yourself when one steps back from the blinding shimmer we see an even dimmer bulb than that\r\n\r\nbut to a baiting troll I know that's not important...\r\n\r\nforget I mentioned it\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-10-02 21:01:21","modified":"2006-10-02 21:01:21","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/10\/wired_bush_by_latuff2.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/10\/wired_bush_by_latuff2.jpg"}},{"id":180783,"heading":"Glad you're here hex","article":"Glad you are here to counter the 4 right wing zionist pro-war trolls who fanatically post here. I don't have enough time these days....Keep carrying the torch and speaking truth to power.\r\nThey hate it that they have none with indymedia...and that they never will!\r\nLMFAO!","author":"Matt Fitt","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:10:04","modified":"2006-10-02 21:10:04","fileurl":""},{"id":180789,"heading":"You're dismissed","article":"Always a hilarious sight to behold when a dul lad like you can only blather in a bid to drown the signal with noise. Truth and history aren't on your side. It's fun toying with you though. Even the Shepes boy knows he's full of the sticky brown stuff (not chocolate). He has no other way to pass his time in his basement.\r\n\r\n","author":"hexi-gone","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:18:15","modified":"2006-10-02 21:18:15","fileurl":""},{"id":180790,"heading":"More is better","article":"MATT FITT WRITES: "4 right wing zionist pro-war trolls who fanatically post here..."\r\n\r\nBECKY: I am neither "right-wing" nor do I identify myself as a Zionist. I am not Jewish or Israeli nor am I a member of a Zionist organization, so I don't think I qualify. I am very much against war, and all of my efforts are pointed towards solving the conflict so no one else has to die.\r\n\r\ncalling someone a "troll" is a de-humanizing term which, if repeated often enough, can lead to violence.\r\n\r\ne.g. "goon" "slope" "chink" "spic" "Wap" "nigger" "bum" "detritus" "lay-a-bout" have all been used to dehumanize a group or race of people, and in most cases preceeded violent acts against these groups.\r\n\r\nFinally, LOTS of people "fanatically" post here, including yourself, Sheepdog, Toady, TW, Hex, Lunchbox, Nessie, etc.\r\n\r\nThere is nothing wrong with frequently posting. In fact, dead sites (like SF.IMC) have very few people posting and of infinitely less use to readers and the community.\r\n\r\nThere are no rules in the editorial guidelines which limit how many posts a person might make.\r\n\r\nWithin reason, more is better.","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:19:51","modified":"2006-10-02 21:19:51","fileurl":""},{"id":180793,"heading":"That appears on","article":"http:\/\/utah.indymedia.org\/news\/2006\/10\/20707_comment.php#20708","author":"P.S.","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:26:27","modified":"2006-10-02 21:26:27","fileurl":""},{"id":180794,"heading":"One last thing","article":"Uh SJ, you can make false accusations all you want (and post under your new alias, "hexigone") but you have long (even since before you started posting porn) been considered an irrelevant spammer here.\r\nYou, young skipper, are dismissed and I'll give you permission to play in the sandbox.","author":"Matt","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:28:33","modified":"2006-10-02 21:28:33","fileurl":""},{"id":180796,"heading":"my opposition here","article":"It's great to have as my opposition, on this forum such a select group of individuals. You know someone by their enemies.\r\nTia & Co. [ the weasel farmers ]\r\nHex [ the Whizzmole ]\r\nTW [ the harlequinmole ]\r\nBECKY [ Ms. BJ the parrot troll ] \r\nan sometimes others.\r\nIt's a free fire zone for patty cake partners, liars, gatekeepers, weasels with their parrots and general dirtbags.\r\n\r\nJust so there is no confusion and you know where I stand.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:31:56","modified":"2006-10-02 21:31:56","fileurl":""},{"id":180797,"heading":"Oh PUKE! Not Ziff again","article":"William B. Ziff was a New York media mogul of the 1930s and -- needless to say -- a bug-eyed zionist fanatic, probably the first pro-Israel propagandist of the modern PR era. This of course is why Tia thinks he's G-d. His book is a cherry-picked extravaganza of everything anybody ever said in favor of Jewish land theft in the Middle east as of the mid-1930s. \r\n\r\nTia flops around on the floor sliming her panties every time she talks about this guy's "spectacular scholarship." Here's her favorite passage:\r\n\r\nfrom http:\/\/utah.indymedia.org\/news\/2006\/09\/18872.php :\r\n"Dr. W.E. Blackstone, quoting the foremost authorities on international law, pointed out in 1891 that since the Jews never gave up their title to Palestine, the general "law of dereliction" could not hold in in their case; "for they never abandoned the land. They made no treaty; they did not even surrender. They simply succumbed, after the most desperate conflict, to the overwhelming power of the Romans...and were captured or enslaved...Since then, having no sovereign nor political head through whom they could speak, they have disputed the possession of their land by continued protest through their literature and their public and private worship..." \r\n\r\nTia chimes in: \r\n"Blackstone ... points out that according to the logical precedents established by such authorities as Buswell, Wheaton, Clifford, Phillimore and others, "the forcible manner by which Israel has been kept out of the land, with no means of redress, is equivalent in principle to a continued state of war..." \r\n\r\n"The greatest legal authorities have agreed that according to the foundation principles of international law there is no basis for prescription against Israel... therefore THE JEWS HAVE A VALID CLAIM ON PALESTINE AS LONG AS THERE IS A SINGLE ZIONIST ALIVE" \r\n\r\n\r\nAnd *who* is Ziff's (and Tia's) "impeccable" source on this, you ask? Why surely it must be a diplomat or a professional scholar on international law, or... or... at least a LAWYER, fer chrissake. \r\n\r\nNyupe. \r\n\r\nIt turns out "Dr. W.E. Blackstone" is none other than William Eugene Blackstone, a Chicago METHODIST MINISTER of the late 1800s who was the most prominent CHRISTIAN ZIONIST holy-rolling moonbat ding-a-ling of his day. For those who don't know, this means he wanted God to come down and use The Holy Laser Beam to vaporize everybody he didn't like, and he thought the way to bring this about was for the Jews to return to Israel (per John Nelson Darby, the original Christian zionist turd-brain). \r\n\r\nAnd this passage...\r\n\r\n"Blackstone ... points out that according to the logical precedents established by such authorities as Buswell, Wheaton, Clifford, Phillimore and others..." \r\n\r\n...reveals that the "definitive legal interpretation" in question is BLACKSTONE'S OWN! \r\n\r\nThis is exactly like quoting Jimmy Swaggart as an "impeccable authority" on the Jews' legal right to Israel! \r\n\r\nIt's so deliciously typical of the zionists' position on EVERYTHING. When you dig into it you discover it's bullshit built on bullshit built on bullshit going back to the dawn of time ","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:36:04","modified":"2006-10-02 21:36:04","fileurl":""},{"id":180798,"heading":"Fit is a nit","article":"Tell that to your cowardly co-editors who'll keep suffering the relevant consequences until they make you stop. I'm treating you (plural) with an (metaphoric) iron fist. Not the begging manner in which some of my grandparents would have pleaded with you to desist.","author":"Matt is a dick","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:36:17","modified":"2006-10-02 21:36:17","fileurl":""},{"id":180799,"heading":"she can dance a cajun rhythm","article":"Some of us don't consider Stormfront or rense or whitespeech to be definitive sources, darling. And it seems like those are only ones acceptable to you.\r\n\r\nOh, yes. An ad hominim is not a rebuttal. You haven't disputed a word Ziff had said.\r\n","author":"jump like a wilys in four wheel drive","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:41:32","modified":"2006-10-02 21:41:32","fileurl":""},{"id":180803,"heading":"hey Matt","article":"keli1041fm@yahoo.com\r\n\r\nthis IMC seems like a home away from home\r\n\r\nthe IMC local to me has almost no activity and I can't figure out how to navigate indybay. Johnk is pretty cool too as about the only IMC staff I ever have contact with. With the rather lively discussions and "regulars" (not including the 4 you mentioned) while not exactly a good example of the ideals of a newswire service (more cutting edge articles - less chatter) it seems to work out most of the time for the better as far as I can tell. I could be all wet on this perception so feel free to express your take on it if you take issue with me\r\n\r\n\r\nfeel free to drop me a line as well if you find a free moment as my schedule is a bit more flexible due to automation and so it's pretty easy to set aside periods as desired -\r\n\r\nBasicly things pretty much run themselves and I use lulls in the "action" to perform maintenance and upkeep, download managers, playlists and FTP queues - stuff like that, more production and engineering than the social aspects of programming - mainly because being where I'm at there's a nearly total lack of possibilities and so I have to rely on pre-produced content\r\n\r\nThanks for the encouragement and support, it provides testament to the concept that people of all types and walks of life can work together for a common goal and that people can grow and learn new and better ways of doing things, behaving and working out misunderstandings as long as a desire to see things from different perspectives and situations - to walk in other people's shoes, is there along with the respect and dignity to apply these experiences in order to enhance the solidarity we share in this common struggle\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:49:58","modified":"2006-10-02 21:49:58","fileurl":""},{"id":180804,"heading":"Becky: "While I don't self-identify as a Zionist..."","article":"HAHAHAHAHA!! Proof positive of how twisted in the brain Becky is!","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 21:54:21","modified":"2006-10-02 21:54:21","fileurl":""},{"id":180806,"heading":"look at the puppets jumping","article":"> calling someone a "troll" is a de-humanizing term which, if repeated often enough, can lead to violence. \r\n\r\ngrandstanding\r\n\r\n\r\n> "goon" "slope" "chink" "spic" "Wap" "nigger" "bum" "detritus" "lay-a-bout" \r\n\r\nstrawmen\r\n\r\n\r\n> LOTS of people "fanatically" post here, including yourself, Sheepdog, Toady, TW, Hex, Lunchbox, Nessie, etc\r\n\r\n\r\nrhetorical\r\n\r\nif any IMC staff person takes any issue at all with my posting, presence or content either in volume or quality, they are always extremely welcome to say so either here or privately\r\n\r\nSince you willfully and repeatedly defy and disregard the requests of them (and us) to cease spamming and flooding pro-zionist propaganda you place yourself in a completely different category\r\n\r\nin a word - troll\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nsheepdog said ;\r\n\r\n> Just so there is no confusion and you know where I stand.\r\n\r\nbut you're not in that list - and so the question begs - where do you stand ?\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:09:02","modified":"2006-10-02 22:09:02","fileurl":""},{"id":180807,"heading":"TW: Much Heat\/ Little Light","article":"TW WRITES: "William B. Ziff was a New York media mogul of the 1930s and -- needless to say -- a bug-eyed zionist fanatic, probably the first pro-Israel propagandist of the modern PR era."\r\n\r\nBECKY: Here TW dishes up his own special kind of smear-tactics without having to refute anything that was said\r\nHe just hurls several, insulting pejoratives and hopes the reader will now discount what that writer had to say.\r\n\r\nWhat TW doesn't dispute is that Ziff was a historian of his era, and he did extensively source his claims, sources which TW prefers most readers were unaware of their existance. Note Ziff wrote his essay BEFORE the modern state of Israel came into being. Therefore, there was NO Israeli occupation at the time of his writings.\r\n\r\nSHEEPDOG would have us believe that the horrible Zionists came in and drove all the REAL inhabitants out.\r\nBut demographic data of the time (not just Ziff) don't corroborate any of it. As Jews immigrated, Arabs also immigrated. In fact, since 1967, the Palestinian population of the West Bank has TRIPLED.\r\n\r\nTW wants a world where he and his ilk can control the information flow and hence re-direct the biases of the readership towards his own anti-Israel stance.\r\n\r\nThat's why they are so in favor of having our posts deleted or our IP addresses blocked.\r\n\r\nReal debate involves points and counter-points, sources, logic, and the ability to declare common ground.\r\n\r\nInstead, TW treats us to ad hominem attacks, strings of invectives, smear tactics, dripping sarcasm, and an arrogance that belies his own ignorance.\r\n\r\nFor if TW COULD refute Ziff, he would.\r\n\r\nHe can't, so he acts out. C'mon TW!! You are not stupid.\r\nBut there are too many of us in here right now who are onto your shit. You will have to do better than rant.","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:13:13","modified":"2006-10-02 22:13:13","fileurl":""},{"id":180808,"heading":"durring the scripted fight","article":"about 5 comment and a thousand words ago, my comment.\r\nheh heh\r\nthis is my complete comment.\r\n\r\nIt's great to have as my opposition, on this forum such a select group of individuals. You know someone by their enemies. \r\nTia & Co. [ the weasel farmers ] \r\nHex [ the Whizzmole ] \r\nTW [ the harlequinmole ] \r\nBECKY [ Ms. BJ the parrot troll ] \r\nan sometimes others. \r\nIt's a free fire zone for patty cake partners, liars, gatekeepers, weasels with their parrots and general dirtbags. \r\n\r\nJust so there is no confusion and you know where I stand.\r\n","author":"Sheepdog sez glad you noticed","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:20:54","modified":"2006-10-02 22:20:54","fileurl":""},{"id":180809,"heading":"Editorial "requests" to cease "spamming"?","article":"When was Becky Johnson requested by an editor to "cease spamming"? Cite a URL. Be specific.","author":"just wondering","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:20:54","modified":"2006-10-02 22:20:54","fileurl":""},{"id":180811,"heading":"It's called 'chutzpah'","article":"Tia: "You haven't disputed a word Ziff had said."\r\n\r\nHun-neee, I just made a FLAMING WRECK out of something he said. His "definitive legal authority" turned out to be a Christian-zionist whack-job preacher! \r\n\r\nThis is how impenetrably deluded and arrogant zionists are. Anytime you blow up Tia's bullshit, she tries to manipulate the argument so that "proving her wrong" would amount to *at least* a graduate-level term paper. Like here for example, where she'd have me chasing after Blackstone's sources, becoming an authority on international law of the 1800s, etc. etc..... It's FUCKING RIDICULOUS. \r\n\r\nI've told you before, Tia: fuck you. I'm not your monkey. Your bullshit hero Ziff just got toasted\r\n\r\nP.S. - 'Chutzpah' is Yiddish for 'arrogant lying asshole'","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:27:15","modified":"2006-10-02 22:27:15","fileurl":""},{"id":180812,"heading":"my sour grapes detector just went off :)","article":"the "requests" are in the hiding\r\n\r\nthis question is easyly addressed by all her hidden comments - a wild guess being - dozens ?\r\n\r\nhundreds ?\r\n\r\n\r\nand articles ? \r\n\r\nnever did the math or bothered to carefully gather the evidence - no one pretending to be anything other than a fellow zionist troll ever even raised the question before\r\n\r\nwhy are you ?\r\n\r\n\r\nmaybe someone "just wondering" should invite her to sf-imc to spam - sorry - educate us, with her original unique progressive human rights supporting groundbreaking cutting edge state of the art rocket science brilliance\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:38:28","modified":"2006-10-02 22:38:28","fileurl":""},{"id":180813,"heading":"And MORE chutzpah!!!!!","article":"Becky: "SHEEPDOG would have us believe that the horrible Zionists came in and drove all the REAL inhabitants out. \r\nBut demographic data of the time (not just Ziff) don't corroborate any of it." \r\n\r\nOh? Prior to zionist batshittism, the Muslim-to-Jew ratio in Palestine was 10:1\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org\/jsource\/History\/demograhics.html\r\n\r\nHere I explain the meaning of this table (and of your position) very plainly: \r\nhttp:\/\/la.indymedia.org\/news\/2006\/07\/169468_comment.php#178517\r\n\r\nHere's another gem from Queen BJ:\r\n\r\n"TW wants a world where he and his ilk can control the information flow..." \r\n\r\nHAHAHAHAHAHAHA!! Yeah, that's why Becky and her friends are all here trying to gatekeep and CONTROL criticism of Israel\r\n\r\nHey Becky: is this some Kabbalah thing where you look in a mirror and pretend the image is your enemy? How do the burnt offerings get used?","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:45:50","modified":"2006-10-02 22:45:50","fileurl":""},{"id":180815,"heading":"Trolls call other people "trolls"","article":"HEX WRITES: calling someone a "troll" is a de-humanizing term which, if repeated often enough, can lead to violence.\r\n\r\ngrandstanding\r\n\r\nBECKY: How is calling someone--in this case, me---"a troll" NOT dehumanizing? What I am doing is OBJECTING to your needlessly pejorative language which has no place in legitimate debate.\r\n\r\nHEX WRITES: "goon" "slope" "chink" "spic" "Wap" "nigger" "bum" "detritus" "lay-a-bout"\r\n\r\nstrawmen\r\n\r\nBECKY: Wrong. They are logical equivalents.\r\n\r\nHEX WRITES: LOTS of people "fanatically" post here, including yourself, Sheepdog, Toady, TW, Hex, Lunchbox, Nessie, etc\r\n\r\nrhetorical\r\n\r\nBECKY: I just named several other frequent posters. You have not logically explained why I post "fanatically" and the people I listed don't. You wish it WAS rhetoric!\r\n\r\nHEX WRITES: "If any IMC staff person takes any issue at all with my posting, presence or content either in volume or quality, they are always extremely welcome to say so either here or privately\r\n\r\nBECKY: IMC staff are supposed to follow IMC editorial guidelines. When they don't they can legitimately be called on it. Just because the IMC staff treat YOU fairly, doesn't mean they treat others the same way.\r\n\r\nHEX WRITES: Since you willfully and repeatedly defy and disregard the requests of them (and us) to cease spamming and flooding pro-zionist propaganda you place yourself in a completely different category\r\n\r\nBECKY: I don't spam. I don't repeatedly post the same articles. I don't flood the pages with porn, bible pages, or articles and photos that have been posted 100 times. Why is it that you have no objection when others DO spam, but you only take issue with me, someone who DOESN"T spam?\r\n\r\nAs for my generally pro-Israel point of view, I was not aware that only one opinion was allowed here. I don't see ANYTHING to that effect in the editorial guidelines for this site. In fact the whole concept of "diversity" "debate" and the smorgaasboard of ideas invites those of diverse views to get together and communicate to each other.\r\n\r\nAdmit it. You think I am an uppity woman you can shame into silence by being insulting or intimidating.\r\n\r\nHEX WRITES: "in a word - troll "\r\n\r\nFROM WIKIPEDIA: "The word likely gained currency because of its apt second meaning, drawn from the "trolls", which are portrayed in Scandinavian folklore, and children's tales, as often ugly, obnoxious creatures that are bent on mischief and wickedness."\r\n\r\nIn Internet terminology, a troll is often someone who comes into an established community such as an online discussion forum, and posts inflammatory, rude, repetitive or offensive messages designed intentionally to annoy or antagonize the existing members or disrupt the flow of discussion, including the personal attack of calling others trolls"\r\n\r\nBECKY: Let me remind you, I became a MEMBER of LA.IMC in 2000. My purpose for posting is for discussion, debate, and to correct misinformation. I have no intent to antagonize or annoy anyone. However, when I refute their arguments, they sometimes get annoyed. My intent is to PARTICIPATE in discussion---not disrupt it.","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:53:02","modified":"2006-10-02 22:53:02","fileurl":""},{"id":180817,"heading":"I think it was you, Hex...","article":"...who pointed out the zionist's use of the Goebbelsian 'Big Lie.' That's it exactly. It's like they think if they repeat Ziff's lies, the immigration lies, etc., enough times, that we'll suddenly go limp in the brain and start believing them. It's like they forget who they're talking to, or their arrogance is of truly psychotic proportions...","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:56:34","modified":"2006-10-02 22:56:34","fileurl":""},{"id":180818,"heading":"Hey, Hex","article":"You didn't bother reading the BJ Queen's last harangue, did you? I sure didn't!","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:58:46","modified":"2006-10-02 22:58:46","fileurl":""},{"id":180819,"heading":""why are you ? "","article":"Look, ad hominem spewing anti-Zionist troll, if you can't back up your allegation citing hidden comments (or unhidden), you're a liar. Plain and simple. You lied. So much for your credibility. Your noise doesn't distract me from calling your bluff.\r\n\r\n","author":"since you asked...","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 22:59:31","modified":"2006-10-02 22:59:31","fileurl":""},{"id":180821,"heading":"proving my point","article":"and this little squabble has what to do with political corruption in israel and what it means for us.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 23:20:04","modified":"2006-10-02 23:20:04","fileurl":""},{"id":180826,"heading":"this is a parrot","article":"'SHEEPDOG had accused the Zionists of having driven the "native Palestinians" from their land. There is absolutely no data to document this.'\r\nlike I said. A parrot. \r\n No one is this stupid and dogmatic without training.\r\n\r\nfor another view:\r\nThe Hidden History of Zionism by Ralph Schoenman.\r\nhere for another view.\r\nhttp:\/\/www.marxists.de\/middleast\/schoenman\/\r\n\r\nread on line\r\n","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 23:41:12","modified":"2006-10-02 23:41:12","fileurl":""},{"id":180827,"heading":"demands and consequences - how humble :)","article":"> Trolls call other people "trolls"\r\n\r\nfriends don't let friends be friends\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> no place in legitimate debate\r\n\r\nframing\r\n\r\nif what you do is "legitimate" then I'm sure you'll have no trouble explaining the editorial actions regarding your "contributions"\r\n\r\n\r\nthe cheese is standing by :)\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> They are logical equivalents.\r\n\r\nthey are (within a certain context) but not what you were trying to compare them to\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> You have not logically explained why I post "fanatically" and the people I listed don't.\r\n\r\nI'm not under any debt to\r\n\r\nif you have an issue here's a tissue\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> IMC staff are supposed to follow IMC editorial guidelines. When they don't they can legitimately be called on it.\r\n\r\nsounds like a terrorist\r\n\r\na terrorist has a demand and a negative consequence for not meeting it\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> Just because the IMC staff treat YOU fairly, doesn't mean they treat others the same way. \r\n\r\n\r\nthat's because I have no demands and my consequence is simply withdrawing\r\n\r\n\r\nI only ask and pray to be "treated fairly" passively and submissively - you should try it sometime - it's very humbling\r\n\r\nbeing humble is a very good state of being\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> I don't repeatedly post the same articles.\r\n\r\nwell they repeatedly get hidden :)\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nre: interpreting editorial guidelines and being humble\r\n\r\n> I don't see ANYTHING to that effect in the editorial guidelines for this site\r\n\r\nWell ultimately it's not about you - you're a guest here yet you *act like you own the place*\r\n\r\nI don't walk into a space maintained by people and start making demands\r\n\r\nIf I don't like where I'm at or what the scene is *I LEAVE*\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> You think I am an uppity woman you can shame into silence by being insulting or intimidating. \r\n\r\nwell one word there is correct - uppity :)\r\n\r\nas for the misogyny baiting, actually I have no stake in the subject at all\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> Let me remind you, I became a MEMBER of LA.IMC in 2000\r\n\r\nlet me remind you that you've been made and outed as a mole feeding activists names to the shit list - 2000 was (2000 - how ironic - masada2000 shit list) was before this happened\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> I have no intent to antagonize or annoy anyone.\r\n\r\nwell we've got a double lane road to hell today I see :)\r\n\r\ndamn - the whine is already spilling and the cheese just got soaked\r\n\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 23:45:54","modified":"2006-10-02 23:45:54","fileurl":""},{"id":180828,"heading":"Talk about parrots","article":""No one is this stupid and dogmatic without training. "\r\n\r\nHow true when you cite the revisionist lying http:\/\/www.marxists.de as a supposedly reliable source. Hilarious. You're such a tool sipping from an awefully tasty kool-aid.\r\n\r\nHow cute that you're "offering" us "another view"... as if it's valid (read: authoritative) at all. ","author":"pot\/kettle\/black","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 23:50:12","modified":"2006-10-02 23:50:12","fileurl":""},{"id":180832,"heading":"too many ankle biting windows opened","article":"> Look, ad hominem spewing anti-Zionist troll \/ you're a liar. Plain and simple. You lied. \r\n\r\nbetter check your browser window - you seem confused - apparently your under the impression the freeper window is open\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-02 23:58:22","modified":"2006-10-02 23:58:22","fileurl":""},{"id":180833,"heading":"your sources \/my sources","article":"We realize only your sources could be valid, but hey, there are other viewpoints.\r\n\r\nSquall all you want about it. A rather quick read.","author":"Sheepdog","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 00:02:02","modified":"2006-10-03 00:02:02","fileurl":""},{"id":180853,"heading":""The late Menahem Begin..."","article":"... WAS A MURDEROUS PSYCHOPATH. \r\n\r\nOh gee, he "didn't care if anyone was pleased by his positions" (blowing up hotels; slaughtering Arab villages... ) -- what a man of conviction! \r\n\r\nOr is that "a man who should be convicted?" I always get those mixed up","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 03:04:26","modified":"2006-10-03 03:04:26","fileurl":""},{"id":180855,"heading":"Begin wasn't of the what=will-TWs-say mentality","article":"Tee Wdumbya:\r\n""... WAS A MURDEROUS PSYCHOPATH. "\r\n\r\nTranslation: Begin didn't always shrink from using force in defending Jewish lives and avenge murdered Jews in contrast to what we've vome to see from hesitant fearful corrupted cowards like Ehud Olmert.\r\n\r\nTee Wdumbya:\r\n"Oh gee, he "didn't care if anyone was pleased by his positions" (blowing up hotels; slaughtering Arab villages... ) -- what a man of conviction! "\r\n\r\nHotels and Villages aren't people so I don't sweat that. Many Arabs still slaughter *people* or at least try daily. That's real genocide in progress, Herr T.W. Deir Yassin was a just a bit excessive on Irgun's part while your favorite Arab Nazis were disguised as women and opened fire first; a pitched battle ensued after the residents were warned to vacate the village from loudspeakers by approaching Irgun vehicles.\r\n\r\nBriefly put, Begin metaphorically flipped off diplomats and statesmen who didn't have Israel's best interests at heart or mind while its enemies were getting a free ride. I findly recall that he cancelled the memo for strategic understanding with the US once Reagan suspended it, as if Reagan percieved the memo as a favor to Israel. Subsequently an agreement was drafted and signed. \r\n\r\nBegin also stepped up the hunt for Nazis, which is why you hate him with a special passion. We read you crystal clear, Tee Wdumbya. It'd be hilarious watching your reactions if the far right in Israel would be voted into power in the coming years, to say nothing of the pitiable "666 oil" sod.","author":"He had national pride","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 03:21:30","modified":"2006-10-03 03:21:30","fileurl":""},{"id":180857,"heading":"Figures Lie and Liars Figure","article":"TW WRITES: (ad hominem attack) (insult)(pejorative)...Palestine was 90% Arab before Herzl and Jabotinsky got your brand of bigotry\/stupidity whipped up \r\n\r\nBECKY: Yes. And when 80% of Palestine got split off to form Trans-Jordan, later Jordan, half the Palestinians became Jordanian citizens.\r\n\r\nThe areas in UN resolution 181 which called for the partition of Palestine (what was left of it, anyway) that were designated for the Jewish State had a majority of Jews living there at the time.\r\n\r\nIn fact, that is why they drew the boundaries where they did.\r\n\r\nDon't play numbers with me. You won't get away with it.\r\nThe British Mandate for Palestine cut off the Jordanian land and simulataneously agreed that no Jew would be allowed to own land in Jordan. Most were forced to leave.\r\n\r\nIf you say that "Palestine" meaning the British Mandate for Palestine formed in 1917, was 90% Arab AND THEN 80% was used to form a country where NO JEW COULD LIVE.\r\nWell, if you lump the entire population of Palestine into your formula, you would say that the Jews only composed 10% of the population, but they formed HALF of the population in the remaining section of Palestine (the remaining 20%) of which half became Israel and the other half, the West Bank and Gaza.\r\n\r\nFROM WIKIPEDIA: "In Jordan today, there is no official census data about how many of the inhabitants of Jordan are Palestinians; estimates range from 50% to 80%."\r\n\r\nPopulation \t \r\n - July 2005 est. \t5,703,000 (106th)\r\n - 2003 census \t5,460,000\r\n\r\nBECKY: So as many as 80% of the 5.7 million Jordanians are Palestinians. What a surprise! \r\n\r\nYou want to claim that Arabs were 90% of a land that only allowed Jews on 20% of it. The question you should be answering is, on the parts of Palestine where JEWS WERE ALLOWED TO LIVE , what percentage were Jews and what percentage were Muslim? I think you will find that the 10 to 1 ratio evens out considerably.\r\n\r\nBut its all a moot point anyway. Currently the vast majority of Jews living in Israel WERE BORN THERE!\r\n\r\nYour objections to the existence of the Jewish state are just 58 YEARS TOO LATE.","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 04:08:51","modified":"2006-10-03 16:05:21","fileurl":""},{"id":180858,"heading":"HEX's poison pen at work!","article":"HEX IS FLAMING AGAIN! HE WRITES: "\r\n> IMC staff are supposed to follow IMC editorial guidelines. When they don't they can legitimately be called on it.\r\n\r\nsounds like a terrorist\r\n\r\na terrorist has a demand and a negative consequence for not meeting it...."\r\n\r\nBECKY: There are consequences to everything. When my postings are deleted and I know I didn't violate any IMC guideline, the consequences are I will post, and post widely and loudly that I was censored. That is called a "reasonable consequence" which you have extrapolated into "terrorism." \r\n\r\nThat you would do that shows you to be slimey, desparate, without ethical or moral standards, and obviously upset that I have humilated you so many times in a row.\r\n\r\nPlay fair. It doesn't really count if you cheat, you know.\r\n","author":"Becky Johnson","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 04:20:40","modified":"2006-10-03 04:20:40","fileurl":""},{"id":180879,"heading":"I wonder what color her strap-on appendage is..","article":"> There are consequences to everything. \r\n\r\nyeah - mine is to leave\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> I will post, and post widely and loudly \r\n\r\nyours is spamming, flooding and whining\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> I know I didn't violate any IMC guideline\r\n\r\nmine ! mine ! mine ! whaaaa !\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> you have extrapolated into "terrorism." \/ That you would do that shows you to be slimey, desparate, without ethical or moral standards\r\n\r\nJust like Israel - they go around applying that *exact standard* to all the people they oppress, murder and occupy, AND to all the people that support those victims as well\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> obviously upset that I have humilated you so many times in a row.\r\n\r\nobviously - could it be any clearer ? if you've got an extra orifice you're just "uppity" but if insted you've got an extra appendage you're hostile by nature, slimey, desparate and eternally upset at being such a constant loser\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n> doesn't really count if you cheat\r\n\r\nyeah, spamming and flooding the same talking points over & over to drown out info that you're uncomfortible with is definitely cheating\r\n\r\nand so you don't count\r\n\r\nbut if twisting that into "you're just mad" serves as a substitute comforter for you (if it helps you ease the frustration of not having your way on here by focusing on a personification of the situation) then hey - thrust away\r\n\r\njust remember to keep those straps tight otherwise you might develop blisters\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 09:11:58","modified":"2006-10-03 09:11:58","fileurl":""},{"id":180893,"heading":"riding tac & blisters","article":"Moving a thread off subject is a favorite method of dealing with ' new readers who stumble on IMC' into subjects that press pointed issues into the framed psyops we endure at the hands of the MSM.\r\nApparently this is dangerous and must be met with a near frenzy of side issues and flame war.\r\nAlways instructional. To know who the players are.","author":"from a previous post","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 12:48:18","modified":"2006-10-03 12:48:18","fileurl":""},{"id":180909,"heading":"anti-Zionists vs Zionists","article":"Look at the anti-Zionist use of language:\r\n\r\nI wonder what color her strap-on appendage is.\r\nstill dry humping the zionist dream\r\nlard ass\r\n\r\nThe anti-Zionists are seemingly incapable of debating simply on the facts.\r\nTheir attaks are personal, based on ad hominims and logical fallacies.\r\nIts all they've got, apparently.\r\n","author":"the differences","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 14:51:47","modified":"2006-10-03 14:51:47","fileurl":""},{"id":180916,"heading":"not quite","article":"> Its all they've got, apparently\r\n\r\nwe have this - IMC - a space to call our own\r\n\r\nbut it's funny you mentioned mere innuendos ( the hate sex but love war dysfunction kicking in again)\r\n\r\nwhen you can fling -\r\n\r\n"damn men, always comes down to fucking, killing or grilling"\r\n\r\nor in your case "as I thrust my icepick into your brain"\r\n\r\nthen simply "lark" it off\r\n\r\ngee the standards seem different for the "chosen ones"\r\n\r\nat the mere suggestion that this thrusting and uppityness represents a strap-on envious type of personality, you puff up in high & mighty properness and suddenly become ::sob:: - sensitive again\r\n\r\nPS - the "lard ass" and "sow" comments aren't mine - you'll just have to take that up with the owner of said quips between thrusting your ice pick into his brain\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 15:25:10","modified":"2006-10-03 15:25:10","fileurl":""},{"id":180924,"heading":"A room of your own","article":"> Its all they've got, apparently\r\n\r\nwe have this - IMC - a space to call our own\r\n\r\nYour space is in Arkansas. At least I'm a Californian.\r\n\r\nbut it's funny you mentioned mere innuendos ( the hate sex but love war dysfunction kicking in again)\r\n\r\nObjection. Assumes facts not in evidence.\r\n\r\nwhen you can fling -\r\n\r\n"damn men, always comes down to fucking, killing or grilling"\r\n\r\nA general comment, as opposed to a specific comment directed against a specific individual\r\n\r\nor in your case "as I thrust my icepick into your brain"\r\n\r\nThat wasn't me. And it was a paraphase from a TW quote. Thats what happens to newcomers. Can't tell the players without a scorecard.\r\n\r\nat the mere suggestion that this thrusting and uppityness represents a strap-on envious type of personality, you puff up in high & mighty properness and suddenly become ::sob:: - sensitive again\r\n\r\nWe are trying to level the playing field, but as you can tell, our strong preference is utilizing information, history and facts.\r\n\r\nPS - the "lard ass" and "sow" comments aren't mine - you'll just have to take that up with the owner of said quips between thrusting your ice pick into his brain\r\n\r\nAnd where are the editors? And since they can't attack Becky's words, or character- the posters go for physical appearance? This is acceptable here? Anywhere?\r\n\r\nLets see TW post his photo- I'm sure a 60+ guy got innumerable flaws. I'm sure we all do. ","author":"in Little Rock","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 15:48:05","modified":"2006-10-03 15:48:05","fileurl":""},{"id":180927,"heading":"The","article":""Hey Eliza\r\nby TW Saturday, May. 13, 2006 at 8:23 AM\r\n\r\nI suggest you suck my balls dry. There's full sense behind everything I've said. Try me. C'mon, let's get into it. I wanna hear your bones snapping and your warbling screams."\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nThe sexual changed allusions to violence and dominance exhibited by the anti-Semit, er, anti-Zionists indicate an inability to separate their racist hatred, their misogyny and their overall world view.\r\nDo any of you have a life? Normal relations with normal people? Why the need to attack viciously and personally- when a female voice is heard?","author":"deviance runs deep","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 16:00:59","modified":"2006-10-03 16:00:59","fileurl":""},{"id":180933,"heading":""re: sheepdog's hang-ups "","article":"My hang ups include a distain for liars and 'intellectual' leaders who are rife w\/hyposcrisy and although it may be said that " I have to inform you (with sadness) that I would be dead meat as my religion prohibits me from killing even in self-defense"\r\nhttp:\/\/la.indymedia.org\/news\/2006\/09\/180277_comment.php#180723\r\n\r\nit seems to have no effect on such ideas as truth and bearing false witness.\r\nTo say nothing of covering up such items as DU contamination which this individual mentioned equates DU as like lead in a battery and therefore 'safe' for our environment. \r\n\r\n"that car battery is killing me again - funny\r\nby Hex Sunday, Aug. 28, 2005 at 1:15 PM\r\n[ asinine graphic] image\/jpeg, 250x263\r\nin storage - as in storage battery \r\nmuch of the worst (which is all that could matter) is underground in deep mines, in any case in bunkers in remote areas.. \r\nIf you hit a storage facility with a bomb... \r\notherwise the sun - being funny - is hundreds of times stronger AGAIN \r\nha ha - funny "\r\n\r\n[ I eliminated the double and triple spacing Hex loves to use in order to extend the thread and will further remark that he is now blaming the sun ( or cigaret smoke, or radon ) for the %600 cancer rate increase evidenced in the last decade]\r\n\r\n","author":"shucks","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 16:28:00","modified":"2006-10-03 16:28:00","fileurl":""},{"id":180950,"heading":"Gone ludicrous","article":"> Israel doesn't murder and occupy \r\n\r\nAntisemitic liar: \r\n"I stopped reading right there :) "\r\n\r\nThat's your issue. The truth remains what it is. Palis murder Israelis and themselves (see the recent Hamas-Fatah clashes -- may they continue so they could finish themselves off as long as the Palestinian majority spurns a compromise with Israel); Israel kills some non-combatant Palis unintentionally in anti-terror operations.\r\n\r\n\r\n> you're an antisemitic fuck who doesn't want to learn shit. \r\n\r\nAntisemitic liar: \r\n"whoopse - better call out the troll alert team again, looks like we've got a live one :) "\r\n\r\nYou've taken my words out of context -- the only way you could "win". What a laughable weakling you are. (I'll say it anyway: I said "Only if you're an antisemitic fuck who doesn't want to learn shit.") ","author":"hexi-gone","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 17:49:49","modified":"2006-10-03 17:49:49","fileurl":""},{"id":180954,"heading":"well, you brought it up","article":""re: sheepdog's hang-ups "\r\nby shucks Monday, Oct. 02, 2006 at 12:28 PM \r\n\r\nMy hang ups include a distain for liars and 'intellectual' leaders who are rife w\/hyposcrisy and although it may be said that " I have to inform you (with sadness) that I would be dead meat as my religion prohibits me from killing even in self-defense" \r\nhttp:\/\/la.indymedia.org\/news\/2006\/09\/180277_comment.php#180723 \r\n\r\nit seems to have no effect on such ideas as truth and bearing false witness. \r\nTo say nothing of covering up such items as DU contamination which this individual mentioned equates DU as like lead in a battery and therefore 'safe' for our environment. \r\n\r\n"that car battery is killing me again - funny \r\nby Hex Sunday, Aug. 28, 2005 at 1:15 PM \r\n[ asinine graphic] image\/jpeg, 250x263 \r\nin storage - as in storage battery \r\nmuch of the worst (which is all that could matter) is underground in deep mines, in any case in bunkers in remote areas.. \r\nIf you hit a storage facility with a bomb... \r\notherwise the sun - being funny - is hundreds of times stronger AGAIN \r\nha ha - funny " \r\n\r\n[ I eliminated the double and triple spacing Hex loves to use in order to extend the thread and will further remark that he is now blaming the sun ( or cigaret smoke, or radon ) for the %600 cancer rate increase evidenced in the last decade] ","author":"repost for mole","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 18:16:22","modified":"2006-10-03 18:16:22","fileurl":""},{"id":180956,"heading":"study harder","article":"re: DU\r\n\r\n> therefore 'safe' for our environment. \r\n\r\nhyperbole - false\r\n\r\nlead isn't "safe" either however DU isn't worse than lead *unless you get it inside your body*\r\n\r\n(this does not include NON-depleted Uranium or virgin Uranium)\r\n\r\nhave data to prove otherwise ?\r\n\r\n(I do have data to back this up and I've already posted it at least twice)\r\n","author":"hex","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 18:24:36","modified":"2006-10-03 18:24:36","fileurl":""},{"id":181023,"heading":"Yup, caught the zionist trash puking another whopper. What a shock (*yawn*)","article":"Hebron baby-stabber: "[Begin] didn't seek to drive Arabs off their lands regardless of how many times you'll repeat the lie." \r\n\r\nOh really? So you mean Deir Yassin doesn't count? Is that what you mean, sick fuck?\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.deiryassin.org\/index1.html\r\n\r\nHebron baby-stabber: "[Haganah was] derelict in duty" \r\n\r\nWell THAT depends ENTIRELY on how you define "defense" doesn't it, and since your definition is obviously the zionist psychopath version shared by Begin, etc., it's clear where you're coming from: "'defense' includes killing anybody who's remotely related to anybody who's so much as looked cross-wise at a Jew during the past 5,000 years." \r\n\r\nNever forgive, never forget...\r\n\r\nHebron baby-stabber: "Suffice it to even mention that Begin decided one year to defend Shofar blowers at the Western Wall from being harrassed or arrested by British police" \r\n\r\nYeah, the British criminalized the blowing of the Shofar at the wall starting in 1929, the year this little stunt contributed to an incredibly violent RIOT. \r\n\r\nAs much as arrogant zionist psychotics love to presume exclusive rights to Jerusalem, it was still very much an Arab town at the time, and ready to go off like a powderkeg any minute, largely because of the antics of the aforementioned arrogant zionist psychotics, for whom blowing the Shofar at the wall immediately caught on as a way to thumb their noses in the Arabs' faces. \r\n\r\nThink of Sharon marching onto the Temple Mount with 1,000+ Shin Bet stormtroopers in September 2000, invading Islamic holy sites in the process. Same shit: wanton provocation. This is how zionists have ALWAYS gotten the wars they CRAVE.\r\n\r\nSo when psycho-baby-stabber here claims Begin was "protecting Shofar blowers," what he really means is Begin was intent on KILLING any British officer who enforced this rule, which was an attempt by the British to keep the peace in Jerusalem -- a peace to which Jabotinskyite psychopaths like Begin were adamently opposed. Begin WANTED war! As Jabotinsky's hand-picked successor, he WANTED an Arab-murdering free-for-all. They all did. And they've been getting their wish continuously now for the past 58 years\r\n\r\nThis is how flipped upside-down the zionists' entire moral\/cognitive universe is! They're just insane","author":"TW","parent_id":180277,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-10-03 21:22:24","modified":"2006-10-03 21:22:24","fileurl":""}]}