{"article":{"id":150852,"heading":"Minutemen Take Civics Lesson From ACLU in Costa Mesa","author":"John Earl","created":"2006-03-21 22:26:12","modified":"2006-04-30 18:16:05","last_modified":"Mon, 01 May 2006 02:16:05","article":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<?xml encoding=\"UTF-8\"><html><body><p>A tiny portion of Minuteman founder Jim Gilchrist's claimed 240 million followers made a surprise showing this Saturday at a Costa Mesa community forum on constitutional rights and immigration law.  <br><br> They were welcomed by Coyotl Tezcalipoca of the Colectivo Tonantzin, which sponsored the event primarily with Costa Mesa's local immigrant population (which has been the target of hate and harassment from the city's Minuteman Junta) in mind, but was happy to discover what it hopes is a new-found interest by the border vigilantes in civilized behavior and basic human rights. <br><br> The group's appearance was in stark contrast to its behavior the previous night when it stormed El Chanco, a popular local Mexican eatery offering $1.00 \"minutemen\" tacos, and reportedly harassed customers as well as innocent and clueless bystanders working at an adjacent Pizza joint.  <br><br> The previous week, Gilchrist and another tiny portion of his claimed 240 million followers (the rest of whom may have been busy, stealthily patroling the US\/Mexican border), had stormed the same restaurant, directly after appearing at nearby City Council member Gary Monahan's beer bar (and perhaps filling up on too much Guiness), where immigrant rights advocates were protesting his recent votes to shut down a day labor center and use police to, ostensibly, enforce immigration law. <br><br> On that occasion, a reporter for the Southern Poverty Law Center became so concerned about Gilchrist's well known erradic behavior  (as he allegedly shouted crazily while stalking back and forth in front of the restaurant) that she was afraid to exit. On both occasions police had to be called to keep the peace, according to witnesses. <br><br> The Minuteman protesters mistakenly claimed that El Chanaco's owner, Mirna Burciaga, is \"pro-criminal\" and a \"supporter of racial supremacy groups,\" including \"La Voz de Aztlan.\" But Gilchrist also accused her of masterminding ongoing weekly protests outside of Monahan's beer joint and implied that she wants to create a city haven for \"drug dealers, murderers, child molesters, robbers, and rapists,\" which Minuteman rhetoric often assumes all Mexican and Central American immigrants to be. <br><br> But, although Buriciaga is opposed to using police as agents of La Migra, she is has also recently opposed a planned boycott of Costa Mesa businesses and has had no contact with members of the Colectivo regarding the protests they organized.  <br><br> And, although this writer did not ask, it also seems implausible that Burciaga or anyone else wants to be surrounded by rapists, murderers and such, especially when the  Minuteman vigilantes who have taken over the city's agenda are already bad enough. <br><br> Gilchrist's well known erratic behavior at public events, including verbose assaults, grandiose statements and inability to control his emotions (well documented at <a href=\"http:\/\/ocorganizer.com\/html\/j__gilchrist.html\">http:\/\/ocorganizer.com\/html\/j__gilchrist.html<\/a> and <a href=\"http:\/\/ocorganizer.com\/html\/jim_gilchrist_minuteman_.html\">http:\/\/ocorganizer.com\/html\/jim_gilchrist_minuteman_.html<\/a>) was at first cause for concern by forum organizers, including this writer, who feared for the safety of children who would be in attendance. <br><br> It was decided, however, that it was in the public's interest to have the pretend border patrol agents and defenders against \"terrorism\" and their bumbling leader, a bigot's version of Barney Fife, safely contained inside a building rather than out on the streets where they might do real harm to themselves and others. <br><br> Gilchrist and followers arrived in Minuteman regalia, including shirts depicting fake law enforcement badges proudly displayed on their chests, as well as the requisite video cameras, but minus the mag flashlight (picked up at May 25 Garden Grove demonstration???) that has become Gilchrist's most recent trademark and which he likes to shine in the eyes of suspected \"terrorists.\" <br><br> The Gilchrist was not only well behaved during the class (despite some grade school whispering back and forth), but several of them, including Gilchrist, even participated by asking questions of their ACLU instructor at the appropriate time.  <br><br> After it was over, Gilchrist and his small group of followers left peacefullly, with important new knowledge that they can now distribute to the 239,000,990 other Minuteman followers who couldn't make the meeting.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","contact":"","link":"www.ocorganizer.com","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","summary":"A tiny portion of Minuteman founder Jim Gilchrist's claimed 240 million followers made a surprise showing this Saturday at a Costa Mesa community forum on constitutional rights and immigration law. \r\n\r\nThey were welcomed by Coyotl Tezcalipoca of the Colectivo Tonantzin, which sponsored the event primarily with Costa Mesa's local immigrant population (which has been the target of hate and harassment from the city's Minuteman Junta) in mind, but was happy to discover what it hopes is a new-found interest by the border vigilantes in civilized behavior and basic human rights.","numcomment":46,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/2006\/03\/gilchrist_learning.jpg","filesize":"62.1 kibibytes","article_url":"\/news\/2006\/03\/150852.php","image":{"original":"\/uploads\/2006\/03\/gilchrist_learning.jpg","small":"\/uploads\/2006\/03\/gilchrist_learning.jpgthumb.jpg","medium":"\/uploads\/2006\/03\/gilchrist_learning.jpgmid.jpg"}},"attachments":[{"id":150853,"heading":"Minuteman &quot;Abortion&quot;","article":"Gilchrist leaves Monahan's beer joint for El Chanaco. Did Monahan urge him to go there?","author":"John Earl","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"video\/x-ms-wmv","created":"2006-03-21 22:26:12","modified":"2006-03-21 22:26:12","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/03\/abortion_win.wmv"},{"id":150854,"heading":"Minuteman Go To Civics Class","article":"Jim Gilchrist and 10 of his 240 million followers attend a class about constitutional rights and immigration law, taught by the ACLU.","author":"John Earl","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"video\/x-ms-wmv","created":"2006-03-21 22:26:12","modified":"2006-03-21 22:26:12","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/03\/aclu_lesson_win.wmv"}],"comments":[{"id":150874,"heading":"reply","article":"I wish I was there to see! I was in Sacramento so I couldn't.\r\n\r\nDon't forget, it's 240 million alleged supporters Gilchrist has, hahaha ;-)","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-22 01:45:08","modified":"2006-03-22 01:45:08","fileurl":""},{"id":150880,"heading":"ACLU lesson addendum","article":"A newer version of the above article with some minor additions and corrections of typos is at http:\/\/ocorganizer.com\/html\/aclu.html\r\n\r\nIf the webmaster allows and gives instructions how, I will make the changes here as well.\r\n\r\nthank you\r\nJohn Earl","author":"John Earl","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-22 02:11:51","modified":"2006-03-22 02:11:51","fileurl":""},{"id":150915,"heading":"more b.s.","article":"Interesting how the Minutemen report on the evening in a matter of fact sort of way, while Earl has to  exaggerate every detail and tell complete lies.  \r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.immigrationwatchdog.com\/?p=780\r\n\r\nMinuteman Junta?  Give me a break.","author":"TheWatchdog","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-22 09:49:54","modified":"2006-03-22 09:49:54","fileurl":""},{"id":150918,"heading":"reply","article":"Then what would you say Gilchrist is doing when he claims to have 240 million supporters? I doubt that many people even think about him enough to actually support him. I wonder if that many people have even heard of his name. If he's not exagerrating, then he's gotta bring them all to the next Lake Forest protest. Okay they can't fit on the corner of Jeronimo and El Toro. Okay, he's gotta bring at least 50,000. That's a small fraction of his supposed number of supporters. 50,000 MM\/Gilchrist supporters should be no problem for the next Lake Forest protest, right? I wanna see 50,000 would be Minutemen this Saturday in Lake Forest.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-22 12:04:33","modified":"2006-03-22 12:04:33","fileurl":""},{"id":150923,"heading":"More B.S. from Fascist Watch Dog","article":"Dear Fascist Watch Dog:\r\n\r\nName one lie in the article that you say is &quot;full&quot; of lies.\r\n\r\nJohn Earl\r\n","author":"John Earl","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-22 15:31:47","modified":"2006-03-22 15:31:47","fileurl":""},{"id":150932,"heading":"Reasoning.","article":"\r\nVideo; Dueling Protests 3_17_06\r\nhttp:\/\/www.wincoast.com\/forum\/attachment.php?attachmentid=9370&d=1142869892","author":"California Yanqui","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-22 17:16:50","modified":"2006-03-22 17:16:50","fileurl":""},{"id":150939,"heading":"Re: more b.s.","article":"TheWatchdog wrote on Tuesday, Mar. 21, 2006 at 1:49 AM:\r\n\r\n> Interesting how the Minutemen report on\r\n> the evening in a matter of fact sort of way,\r\n> while Earl has to exaggerate every detail\r\n> and tell complete lies. \r\n\r\nI hate to disappoint you, but the woman who posts under the psuedonym &quot;Obey&quot; on the &quot;Save Our State&quot; website at times seems to have a propensity to &quot;exaggerate every detail and tell complete lies&quot; about situations.\r\n\r\nFor example, about a week ago, &quot;Obey&quot; posted a photograph on the SOS website that had been circulating on Minutemen blogs and listservs claiming that Naui Huitzilopochtli had been arrested by the Fullerton Police Department.  \r\n\r\nBut the photo only showed Naui being frisked for weapons: a fairly routine procedure for a police officer detaining someone for questioning.  After that, he wasn't handcuffed, arrested, or brought to jail. You know that because you posted a correction about it on your website.\r\n\r\n&quot;Obey&quot; and others have also posted bizarre reports about Jim Gilchrist's demonstration in front of El Chinaco restaurant last Friday, too.  For example, she claimed there were far more Minutemen protesting El Chinaco's than there were &quot;goons&quot; at Skosh Monahan's.\r\n\r\nWell, sources tell me about 15 Minutemen hung out in front of El Chinaco's restaurant for about two hours. If &quot;Obey&quot; had stuck around in front of Skosh Monahan's long enough, she would have noticed that there were about 30 of us &quot;goons&quot; at the peak of the demonstration.\r\n\r\nSources also allege that Gilchrist and other Minutemen trespassed on private property and began harassing the employees of a Papa John's Pizza restaurant that was several doors down from  El Chinaco's. I guess since the employees were Mexican, the wannabe Border Patrol agents decided they were &quot;illegal aliens.&quot;\r\n\r\nSo the Minutemen not only begn to videotape the employees, but also the license plates of the vehicles they drove. When one person allegedly stuck his hand up in front of a camcorder to stop from being filmed, Gilchrist apparently called the police and claimed he had been &quot;battered.&quot;\r\n\r\nOf course, reports on the SOS website completely reversed the situation. The Minutemen claimed that they had been attacked by &quot;gangbangers&quot; for exercising their free speech rights (for some strange reason, they neglect to mention the fact they were trespassing on private property while all of this was happening.)\r\n\r\nThese antics kept the Costa Mesa Police pretty busy that night.  At one point, they dispatched upwards of seven police officers to El Chinaco's and Papa John's Pizza. And I'm told the cops were sent there to protect the customers and employees from the erratic behavior of the Minutemen; it wasn't the other way around.\r\n\r\nSincerely,\r\n\r\nDuane J. Roberts\r\nduaneroberts92804@yahoo.com","author":"Duane J. Roberts","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-22 19:58:45","modified":"2006-03-22 19:58:45","fileurl":""},{"id":150947,"heading":"reply","article":"The MM seem to get worse and worse. If it wasn't SOS's willingness to burn a Mexican flag, eventually it would have been something else that made me quit. Same with the MM, Gilchrist campaign, etc. These are not civilized people. These are people that go around and tell people how to think and what opinions to have. That is what they are. It's that simple.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-22 22:02:50","modified":"2006-03-22 22:02:50","fileurl":""},{"id":150971,"heading":"assimilation now complete","article":"Cliff, \r\n\r\nAfter that last post, I would say that  you are now fully assimilated into the goon horde.\r\n\r\nThe violence and hatred of the goons is well known. So, for you, or DR or JE to point the finger back at the MM smacks of the usual and status quo hypocrisy that we have all come to know and love !","author":"Don Silva","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-23 01:22:44","modified":"2006-03-23 01:22:44","fileurl":""},{"id":150972,"heading":"reply","article":"What are you smoking Don? I'm not a member of the Green Party, ANSWER, Collectivo, or or whatever nor am I planning on it. I denounced my involvement in an ANSWER march in Hollywood in 2004 because it's ANSWER. Infact, one of my feelings is that ANSWER isn't American enough for me to join forces with to oppose the war. My role here is one of communication and understanding. I talk about the idea of amnesty but I'm not a passionate advocate of it. Generally I wouldn't mind that idea. I like it better than mass deportations.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-23 01:30:42","modified":"2006-03-23 01:30:42","fileurl":""},{"id":150984,"heading":"To Jammer","article":"**********Infact, one of my feelings is that ANSWER isn't American enough for me to join forces with to oppose the war.\r\n\r\nWhat do u mean Jammer ANSWER isnt american enough? Most or all of the membership are american. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-23 06:05:09","modified":"2006-03-23 06:05:09","fileurl":""},{"id":150985,"heading":"Response to Facist Mexican hater, Don Silva","article":"Dear Fascist Mexican Hater, Don Silva:\r\n\r\nYou imply that Duane and I are guilty of hate and violence. What examles, specificially, would you give of that? I can see how you might confuse my passionate dislike of your fascism and racism as hate, because that's easier for you to do than admit your own hatred (obvious from your many online videos...even showing hatred toward the cops! How un American!). \r\n\r\nBut what violence have I or Duane ever taken part of? Please let us all know. Maybe you confused me or Duane with Border Raven, who pulled out a pistol in Lake Forest because somebody threw an egg at him, but even we are not that fat! (sorry, BR!). Or maybe you confused us with &quot;1inch,&quot; who brags about his shooting ability in a politically volitile atmosphere and who admitted that he carries a firearm and can be seen on video theatening to blow a  day workers'  head or face of with it &quot;if&quot; he pulls a knife, which was nowhere to be seen.\r\n\r\nOr, maybe you're just a racist, fascist liar. Yeah, that's it.\r\n\r\nJE","author":"John Earl","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-23 06:29:23","modified":"2006-03-23 06:29:23","fileurl":""},{"id":150987,"heading":"reply","article":"Border Raven actually displayed a firearm while giving chase in his vehicle to a guy who was taking off in another vehicle. When he returned, he admitted to this with details, even to a LF police officer. This was a while back.\r\n\r\nMore recently at the egg incident, I'm not aware that he displayed a pistol that time. I just got video of him shouting at people.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-23 06:57:36","modified":"2006-03-23 06:57:36","fileurl":""},{"id":150988,"heading":"thanks Cliff","article":"Thanks for that clarification Cliff. I mixed up the egg incident with the attempted pistol whipping, or whatever he intended.\r\n\r\nJE","author":"John Earl","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-23 07:20:43","modified":"2006-03-23 07:20:43","fileurl":""},{"id":151015,"heading":"reply about ANSWER","article":"I read the stuff on infoshop and protestwarriors about ANSWER, the World Workers Party or whatever, and stuff like that. There's hardly any American flags at the marches. There's a lot of foreign flags like Iraq and Palestine flags, which is good. Okay, we get it. But they also let by a lot of displays of anti-Americanism. Like I said before, I'm not the most patriotic joe out there, including my time with the Gilchrist campaign. But I don't want to march with people that seem to have some facination with Middle Eastern terrorists.\r\n\r\nThen again, I'm critical of mass protest marches because I doubt they actually do anything to stop the war and it will always attract odd types of protesters. The Mexica Movement even marched last Saturday with their message, a message I doubt is compatible with patriotic Americans opposing the war.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-23 08:56:41","modified":"2006-03-23 08:56:41","fileurl":""},{"id":151030,"heading":"Don Silva in denial","article":"Don Silva wrote on Tuesday, Mar. 21, 2006 at 5:22 PM:\r\n\r\n> Cliff, \r\n>\r\n> After that last post, I would say that you are\r\n> now fully assimilated into the goon\r\n> horde. \r\n>\r\n> The violence and hatred of the goons is well\r\n> known. So, for you, or DR or JE to point the\r\n> finger back at the MM smacks of the usual\r\n> and status quo hypocrisy that we have all\r\n> come to know and love !\r\n\r\nSo Don, got any evidence to support your assertion that John\r\nEarl, myself, or any other &quot;goon&quot; we know is &quot;violent&quot;?\r\n\r\nIn a majority of situations, the folks on &quot;your side&quot; are the\r\nones who bring guns and knives to demonstrations.\r\n\r\nIn regards to the claim of us &quot;goons&quot; being &quot;hateful&quot; toward you,\r\nisn't that something that you brought upon yourself?\r\n\r\nIf you hang out with neo-Nazis, white supremacists, and bigots\r\nof all stripes, you're not going win many allies among us.\r\n\r\nFlirting with folks who espouse mass murder and genocide of\r\nwhole races and classes of people isn't our cup of tea.\r\n\r\nAnd people aren't going to like you if you denigrate their\r\nculture, heritage, and dignity, as you have done.\r\n\r\nSincerely,\r\n\r\nDuane J. Roberts\r\nduaneroberts92804@yahoo.com","author":"Duane J. Roberts","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-23 18:19:16","modified":"2006-03-23 18:19:16","fileurl":""},{"id":151073,"heading":"You 2 are not really worthy of a response","article":"But, since others are listening becuzz I am a star now...\r\n\r\nDR,\r\n\r\nYou have nothing on me, and you know it. \r\n\r\nWhat you do not know, even tho you almost came to my door doing research on me, is that for nearly 20 years I did street ministry, and most of it was directed towards illegal aliens and blacks. You blanket claims of racism are so absurd, that everyone sees thru it, altho you deny it. Let me give you some useful informaiton...if you want to actually make an impact on saveourstate\/MM types, drop the insanely lame racism charges, and persue something that actually  has some factual basis to it, such as many illegal immigration activists statements that are a reproach. They open their mouths on a consistant basis, and give you much ammo, but you rarely sieze upon it.\r\n\r\nWe need weapons BECUZZ those that YOU hang out with make death threats towards us on a regular basis, go on about how we are going to get beat down, and make racially charged statemets. Overlooking that, are we ?\r\n\r\nJE,\r\n\r\nUhh, never mind. You are sucha presumptuous hypocrite, I decided that you are in fact not worthy even when my fans are standing by !","author":"Don Silva","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-24 04:54:19","modified":"2006-03-24 04:54:19","fileurl":""},{"id":151081,"heading":"I'm Don Silva's #1 fan!","article":"Don's going to be on the Mark Edwards show Thursday, 23rd at 10pm!\r\n\r\nI can't wait!!!","author":"TheWatchdog","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-24 08:04:24","modified":"2006-03-24 08:04:24","fileurl":""},{"id":151082,"heading":"Dear neo-Fascist Racist Liar Don Silva","article":"Yeah, Don, we've all seen how you preach to the immigrants on your racist neo-Fascist websites. Why didn't your partner in racist crimes use his real name at the CM city councl meeting the other night?  He and you are great at hiding behind your video cams, but your both total cowards","author":"John Earl","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-24 08:09:42","modified":"2006-03-24 08:09:42","fileurl":""},{"id":151089,"heading":"No I 'm Don Silva's #1 fan!","article":"Name calling is all Earl and Roberts have.\r\n\r\nHave not heard one good argument for illegal immigration yet.\r\n\r\nThey sound like third graders. No wonder the Green Party gets about 1% of the vote.\r\n\r\nUnkempt social misfits with illusions of grandeur chasing imaginary Nazis.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.wehategringos.com\/","author":"MinuteGF","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-24 14:32:38","modified":"2006-03-24 14:32:38","fileurl":""},{"id":151113,"heading":"Re: You 2 are not really worthy of a response","article":"Don Silva wrote on Wednesday, Mar. 22, 2006 at 8:54 PM:\r\n\r\n> But, since others are listening becuzz\r\n> I am a star now... \r\n>\r\n> DR, \r\n>\r\n> You have nothing on me, and you know it. \r\n>\r\n> What you do not know, even tho you almost came\r\n> to my door doing research on me, is that for\r\n> nearly 20 years I did street ministry, and\r\n> most of it was directed towards illegal aliens\r\n> and blacks. \r\n\r\nSo what?\r\n\r\n> You blanket claims of racism are\r\n> so absurd, that everyone sees thru it, altho\r\n> you deny it. Let me give you some useful\r\n> informaiton...if you want to actually\r\n> make an impact on saveourstate\/MM types, drop the\r\n> insanely lame racism charges, and persue\r\n\r\nWhat &quot;blanket claims&quot; are those? I don't recall ever saying\r\nthat I believe all &quot;Save Our State\/Minutemen&quot; types are\r\nracist. But a number of them are.\r\n\r\nIn my opinion, many are national chauvinists; others practice\r\na homegrown form of fascism. Only a very small handful\r\ndon't fit any of these categories.\r\n\r\n> something that actually has some factual\r\n> basis to it, such as many illegal immigration\r\n> activists statements that are a reproach. They\r\n> open their mouths on a consistant basis,\r\n> and give you much ammo, but you rarely\r\n> sieze upon it. \r\n\r\nAnd why haven't you gone after them?\r\n\r\n> We need weapons BECUZZ those that YOU hang out\r\n> with make death threats towards us on a regular\r\n> basis, \r\n\r\nReally now?\r\n\r\nSo Don, can you post online copies of reports that you and others\r\nhave filed with local law enforcement agencies against persons\r\nI hang out who have made these alleged &quot;death threats&quot;?\r\n\r\nIf you're going to make these accusations, I'm going to ask you\r\nfor proof. What steps have you taken to ensure persons I hang\r\nout with have been punished for these alleged misdeeds?\r\n\r\n> go on about how we are going to get\r\n> beat down, and make racially charged statemets.\r\n\r\nWhat kinds of &quot;racially charged statements&quot; are those, may I ask?\r\n\r\nAnd what context were they made?\r\n\r\n> Overlooking that, are we ? \r\n\r\nI don't overlook a thing.\r\n\r\nAll I know is that, unlike you, I don't have a history of\r\ninviting people to protests who support the idea of lynching\r\nAfrican Americans, hunting down and killing Mexicans for sport,\r\nand shoving Jews into ovens. \r\n\r\nAnd nobody that I'm linked with advocates that us &quot;white folk&quot;\r\nbe treated in the the exact same way.\r\n\r\nSincerely,\r\n\r\nDuane J. Roberts\r\nduaneroberts92804@yahoo.com\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Duane J. Roberts","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-24 19:25:37","modified":"2006-03-24 19:25:37","fileurl":""},{"id":151129,"heading":"To Jammer","article":">>>I read the stuff on infoshop and protestwarriors about ANSWER, the World Workers Party or whatever, and stuff like that.\r\n\r\n\r\nall or most of the left has issue with each other like the right too. Infoshop is an anarchist website and there is anarchist goes to the rally. Protest warriors is a right wing organization, a bush and a war lover. I hope you dont support the them. Answer used to be in WWP.\r\n  \r\n>>>There's hardly any American flags at the marches. There's a lot of foreign flags like Iraq and Palestine flags, which is good. Okay, we get it.\r\n\r\nas for flags, american you answered it yourself. other flag they are in solidarity with the oppressor. \r\n\r\n>>>But they also let by a lot of displays of anti-Americanism. Like I said before, I'm not the most patriotic joe out there, including my time with the Gilchrist campaign. But I don't want to march with people that seem to have some facination with Middle Eastern terrorists. \r\n\r\nyes we all have our critism of the u.s. government. trust me answer and other leftest organization dont support middle eastern terrorist. dont see it as a linear issue. it is more complicated than that. also, there are alot of officals, movies stars, etc. come to the rallies. i doubt it if they would support middle eastern terrorist.      \r\n\r\n>>>Then again, I'm critical of mass protest marches because I doubt they actually do anything to stop the war and it will always attract odd types of protesters.\r\n\r\n>>>it takes some time to stop the war. all i can say to the odd types. what is normal type the people? the people glued to the t.v. watching the fox channel.\r\n\r\n\r\nThe Mexica Movement even marched last Saturday with their message, a message I doubt is compatible with patriotic Americans opposing the war.\r\n\r\nso, what? answer dont want to control the crowd that defeat the whole purpose of what is democracy. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-24 22:33:44","modified":"2006-03-24 22:33:44","fileurl":""},{"id":151138,"heading":"reply","article":"Okay, I hear your points loud and clear. I'm not a supporter of Protest Warriors, they just have some material and secretly recorded video\/audio from some ANSWER meetings back when they started. There's also the fact that I don't know all about how ANSWER started and exactly who's running the show and I myself don't have a lot of trust for them.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 00:17:10","modified":"2006-03-25 00:17:10","fileurl":""},{"id":151147,"heading":"to Jammer","article":"I support the rallies, but I dont agree cold heartedly with answer.   ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 01:42:24","modified":"2006-03-25 01:42:24","fileurl":""},{"id":151154,"heading":"Some &quot;imaginary Nazis&quot; at Save Our State rally in Laguna Beach","article":"MinuteGF writes:\r\n\r\n> Unkempt social misfits with illusions of grandeur chasing imaginary Nazis. \r\n","author":"Twix","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-03-25 02:26:14","modified":"2006-03-25 02:26:14","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/03\/sos_youth_brigade_in_laguna_beach_1_.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/03\/sos_youth_brigade_in_laguna_beach_1_.jpg"}},{"id":151156,"heading":"thank you WATCHOUT","article":">>>>What are you smoking Don? I'm not a member of the Green Party, ANSWER, Collectivo, or or whatever nor am I planning on it.\r\n\r\nwhat a relief!!!!","author":"WATCHIT WATCHOUT","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 02:35:08","modified":"2006-03-25 02:35:08","fileurl":""},{"id":151164,"heading":"The Nazis left  SOS and found people","article":"more in tune with their ideas:\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.davidduke.com\/index.php?p=350\/lmore-350\r\n\r\nWhy Cindy Sheehan is Right!\r\nBy David Duke\r\n\r\nCindy Sheehan, a mother who lost a son in the Iraq War, is determined to prevent other mothers and fathers from experiencing the same loss.\r\n\r\nCourageously she has gone to Texas near the ranch of President Bush and braved the elements and a hostile Jewish supremacist media to demand a meeting with him and a good explanation why her son and other\u2019s sons and daughters must die and be disfigured in a war for Israel rather than for America.\r\n\r\nRecently, she had the courage to state the obvious that her son signed up in the military to protect America not to die for Israel.\r\n\r\nIn a recent letter to \u201cNightline,\u201d she wrote the following hard-hitting words:\r\n\r\n    Am I emotional? Yes, my first born was murdered. Am I angry? Yes, he was killed for lies and for a PNAC Neo-Con agenda to benefit Israel. My son joined the Army to protect America, not Israel. Am I stupid? No, I know full-well that my son, my family, this nation, and this world were betrayed by George [W.] Bush who was influenced by the neo-con PNAC agenda after 9\/11. We were told that we were attacked on 9\/11 because the terrorists hate our freedoms and democracy\u2026not for the real reason, because the Arab-Muslims who attacked us hate our middle-eastern foreign policy. That hasn\u2019t changed since America invaded and occupied Iraq\u2026in fact it has gotten worse. \r\n\r\nNow, a gauntlet of personal attacks has been let out against her. A recent article on David Horowitz\u2019s FrontPage and repeated by many pro-Israel zealots dares to compare her with that incorrigible American, me. Here is a FrontPage reader\u2019s commentary published in the Lonestar Times.\r\n\r\n    \u2026(Sheehan) voiced vaguely anti-Semitic rhetoric when she alleged that the Iraq War was all about protecting Israel, i.e. a Jewish conspiracy (a similar opinion is frequently expressed by David Duke and his ilk).\u201d \u2014 From the Lonestar Times August, 13, 2005\r\n\r\nIn truth, Cindy Sheehan is absolutely right. Her son signed up in the military to defend America, not Israel, and to safeguard our own democracy, not the democracy of some foreign nation that neither wants nor needs it. In advancing this war for Israel, government and media advocates obviously couldn\u2019t get Americans behind the war by saying it was a war for Israel. They had to make up bogus reasons for the war, such as saying that Iraq was an imminent threat to America and that Saddam had weapons of mass destruction. Now that these lies have been exposed, they have changed the rationale for the war to \u201cfighting for democracy\u201d and \u201cfighting against terrorism.\u201d Here\u2019s a short list showing why Cindy Sheehan is right!","author":"getitright","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 03:25:11","modified":"2013-11-11 00:38:54","fileurl":""},{"id":151168,"heading":"Imaginary SOS members at a Nazi rally","article":"There isn't a single SOS member in that picture. \r\n\r\nDuane was kind enough to give me an interview the other night.  Even though I disagree with him, I respect that he stood there and voiced his opinion, especially since there were others around that opposed him and he was there by himself.  He didn't resort to name calling as a way of avoiding the issues.  \r\n\r\n","author":"Watchdog","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 04:54:56","modified":"2006-03-25 04:54:56","fileurl":""},{"id":151170,"heading":"u were not there watchdog","article":"u havent joined the sos when the sos protesting the day laborer at laguna beach. you can confirm it from jammer he was there even donnie silvia, joe turner, lupe marino too. it was an sos event. sos cant deny the neonazi weren't there. donnie was the one who posted on the stormfront site. also, you can blow up that placard and see the sos website on there. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 06:21:53","modified":"2006-03-25 06:21:53","fileurl":""},{"id":151171,"heading":"reply","article":"That photo was from July 30th 2005. I'm not aware of Lupe being there that day, but I didn't know who she is at the time. The place was crowded, if she was there, I didn't know. Megan is in that photo and has rallied with SOS. There are photos of her holding their large blue banner along with Don Silva in a Laguna protest prior to July 30th 2005.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 06:26:53","modified":"2006-03-25 06:26:53","fileurl":""},{"id":151178,"heading":"We Don't Need Guest Workers","article":"Economist Philip Martin of the University of California likes to tell a story about the state\u2019s tomato industry. In the early 1960s, growers relied on seasonal Mexican laborers, brought in under the government\u2019s \u201cbracero\u201d program. The Mexicans picked the tomatoes that were then processed into ketchup and other products. In 1964 Congress killed the program despite growers\u2019 warnings that its abolition would doom their industry. What happened? Well, plant scientists developed oblong tomatoes that could be harvested by machine. Since then, California\u2019s tomato output has risen fivefold.\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s a story worth remembering, because we\u2019re being warned again that we need huge numbers of \u201cguest workers\u201d \u2014 meaning unskilled laborers from Mexico and Central America \u2014 to relieve U.S. \u201clabor shortages.\u201d Indeed, the shortages will supposedly worsen as baby boomers retire. President Bush wants an open-ended program. Sens. Edward M. Kennedy (D-Mass.) and John McCain (R-Ariz.) advocate initially admitting 400,000 guest workers annually. The Senate is considering these and other plans.\r\nGosh, they\u2019re all bad ideas\r\n\r\nGuest workers would mainly legalize today\u2019s vast inflows of illegal immigrants, with the same consequence: We\u2019d be importing poverty. This isn\u2019t because these immigrants aren\u2019t hardworking; many are. Nor is it because they don\u2019t assimilate; many do. But they generally don\u2019t go home, assimilation is slow and the ranks of the poor are constantly replenished. Since 1980 the number of Hispanics with incomes below the government\u2019s poverty line (about $19,300 in 2004 for a family of four) has risen 162 percent. Over the same period, the number of non-Hispanic whites in poverty rose 3 percent and the number of blacks, 9.5 percent. What we have now \u2014 and would with guest workers \u2014 is a conscious policy of creating poverty in the United States while relieving it in Mexico. By and large, this is a bad bargain for the United States. It stresses local schools, hospitals and housing; it feeds social tensions (witness the Minutemen). To be sure, some Americans get cheap housecleaning or landscaping services. But if more mowed their own lawns or did their own laundry, it wouldn\u2019t be a tragedy.\r\n\r\nThe most lunatic notion is that admitting more poor Latino workers would ease the labor market strains of retiring baby boomers. The two aren\u2019t close substitutes for each other. Among immigrant Mexican and Central American workers in 2004, only 7 percent had a college degree and nearly 60 percent lacked a high school diploma, according to the Congressional Budget Office. Among native-born U.S. workers, 32 percent had a college degree and only 6 percent did not have a high school diploma. Far from softening the social problems of an aging society, more poor immigrants might aggravate them by pitting older retirees against younger Hispanics for limited government benefits.\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s a myth that the U.S. economy \u201cneeds\u201d more poor immigrants. The illegal immigrants already here represent only about 4.9 percent of the labor force, the Pew Hispanic Center reports. In no major occupation are they a majority. They\u2019re 36 percent of insulation workers, 28 percent of drywall installers and 20 percent of cooks. They\u2019re drawn here by wage differences, not labor \u201cshortages.\u201d In 2004, the median hourly wage in Mexico was $1.86, compared with $9 for Mexicans working in the United States, said Rakesh Kochhar of Pew. With high labor turnover in the jobs they take, most new illegal immigrants can get work by accepting wages slightly below prevailing levels.\r\n\r\nHardly anyone thinks that most illegal immigrants will leave. But what would happen if new illegal immigration stopped and wasn\u2019t replaced by guest workers? Well, some employers would raise wages to attract U.S. workers. Facing greater labor costs, some industries would \u2014 like the tomato growers in the 1960s \u2014 find ways to minimize those costs. As to the rest, what\u2019s wrong with higher wages for the poorest workers? From 1994 to 2004, the wages of high school dropouts rose only 2.3 percent (after inflation) compared with 11.9 percent for college graduates.\r\n\r\nPresident Bush says his guest worker program would \u201cmatch willing foreign workers with willing American employers, when no Americans can be found to fill the jobs.\u201d But at some higher wage, there would be willing Americans. The number of native high school dropouts with jobs declined by 1.3 million from 2000 to 2005, estimates Steven Camarota of the Center for Immigration Studies, which favors less immigration. Some lost jobs to immigrants. Unemployment remains high for some groups (9.3 percent for African Americans, 12.7 percent for white teenagers).\r\n\r\nBusiness organizations understandably support guest worker programs. They like cheap labor and ignore the social consequences. What\u2019s more perplexing is why liberals, staunch opponents of poverty and inequality, support a program that worsens poverty and inequality. Poor immigrant workers hurt the wages of unskilled Americans. The only question is how much. Studies suggest a range \u201cfrom negligible to an earnings reduction of almost 10 percent,\u201d according to the CBO.\r\n\r\nIt\u2019s said that having guest workers is better than having poor illegal immigrants. With legal status, they\u2019d have rights and protections. They\u2019d have more peace of mind and face less exploitation by employers. This would be convincing if its premise were incontestable: that we can\u2019t control our southern border. But that\u2019s unproved. We\u2019ve never tried a policy of real barriers and strict enforcement against companies that hire illegal immigrants. Until that\u2019s shown to be ineffective, we shouldn\u2019t adopt guest worker programs that don\u2019t solve serious social problems \u2014 but add to them.","author":"Watchdog","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 07:32:38","modified":"2013-11-11 00:38:54","fileurl":""},{"id":151179,"heading":"reply","article":"Well that's one way to change the subject away from Nazis at SOS protests.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 07:39:45","modified":"2006-03-25 07:39:45","fileurl":""},{"id":151180,"heading":"Neo-Plagerist Watchdog","article":"Gee Watchdog, Brook, Charles, or whatever you call yourself today: \r\n\r\nI knew  you were a neo-Fascist, racist, etc., but I didn't know you were a plagerist too. Can't you even give credit to the real writer of that Washington Post essay?\r\n\r\nJE","author":"John Earl","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-25 07:49:39","modified":"2006-03-25 07:49:39","fileurl":""},{"id":151382,"heading":"To DR only","article":"First, I have never invited any W\/N, fill in the blank to any protest, period, ever. I do not know where you got that from. You have only been to 2 protests where I have been there that I know of that we put on.\r\n\r\nGo ahead and marginalize what matters, and trump up what does not. My involvement with the illegal alien community could possibly pre-date your starting date in activism, but humanitarian aid is of no importance to you all of a sudden ? You are contradicting yourself.\r\n\r\nAs far as the racism, yes racism as defined by a real dictionary, not some goof on wiki, I have been on the receiving end of that for being the wrong color by just walking on sidewalk and minding my own business at protests. That is the differnce between the sides. We do not automatically assume someone is a racist before we speak to them personally.\r\n\r\nRafael Renteria has issued death threats at our protests. Need more names ? How about Jesse Diaz. Another violent and racist man that has made the mistake of opening his mouth with violent threats. Should I go on ? There is no point.\r\n\r\nSo fine, you are not bringing out the race card every 2 minutes. That speaks well of you, of course. But, my what I am thinking now, and questioning is, just why does anyone really care so much about what Earl and you are saying ?  I do not see where you 2 have done a whole lot activism wise in the past year or so. Not trying to be obnoxious really, but it just comes to mind.","author":"Don Silva","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-26 23:33:01","modified":"2006-03-26 23:33:01","fileurl":""},{"id":151404,"heading":"reply","article":"Okay so perhaps Don didn't invite any Nazis... oh wait yes he did! Well sort of, he let them come. He posted on Stormfront saying it's okay as long as they don't bring their Nazi stuff. But it's still them all the same. He posted this:\r\n\r\n&quot;Here is the deal. If anyone wants to be involved, you just show up and leave all the rest at home. I have to do this with my beliefs. I am not white sep, or any other things related to white groups, but i have my own things as a Christian that I must leave aside for the 'cause' as we call it. You just show up, and expect no glory. What you can expect is dust and lots of it. Heat ansd sweat. Work , and the appreciation from others, and the feeling of accomplishment that goes along with it all.\r\n\r\nIt is a very satisfying experience to say the least. &quot;\r\n\r\nYou can see the whole thing here http:\/\/www.stormfront.org\/forum\/showthread.php?p=2033627#post2033627\r\n\r\nThat is you, right Don? Hope you remembered you STORMFRONT PASSWERD cause you may want to log in again to delete or edit that post. Of course it's already been saved and printed.\r\n\r\nIt's one thing to ask a Christian to leave his or her beliefs behind. But Nazi types from STORMFRONT? I mean, would you be okay with a sex offender working in a school as long as he left his sexual offence stuff at home?\r\n\r\nOn July 30th, I wasn't any the wiser and brought a friend who was either confused or passively into that stuff in his own non-racist way which I excused as maybe a phase. But as soon as I hit the internet and learned a thing or two I learned that that is a no-no. That's all I needed after being thrown into this for the first time. Bad judgement call, self corrected. What took SOS so long after having the Nazi types at your rallies again and again?\r\n\r\nBesides, Debbie told me on Sept 24th that Joe Turner invited the Nazis and that that's why she quit SOS.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-03-27 02:00:56","modified":"2006-03-27 02:00:56","fileurl":""},{"id":152397,"heading":"Re: To DR only","article":"Don Silva wrote:\r\n\r\n> First, I have never invited any W\/N, fill in the\r\n> blank to any protest, period, ever. I do not\r\n> know where you got that from. You have only\r\n> been to 2 protests where I have been there that\r\n> I know of that we put on. \r\n\r\nI still retain copies of messages that Joe Turner and\r\nyourself posted on the &quot;Save Our State&quot; website saying\r\nyou didn't have a problem with &quot;W\/N&quot; groups coming to\r\nyour protests as long as they kept their &quot;reich shirts&quot;\r\nat home.\r\n\r\nI also have correspondence posted online between Turner,\r\nyourself, and &quot;Advocate,&quot; where you all worked together\r\nto create that &quot;DEPORT ILLEGAL ALIENS&quot; banner: the one you\r\nwere photographed holding up with other avowed white\r\nsupremacists and neo-Nazis.\r\n\r\nYou also told me at your Laguna Beach rally last year\r\non July 30th that you didn't see much of a problem with\r\n&quot;Save Our State&quot; hooking up with &quot;W\/N&quot; types claiming\r\nthat it was no different than me aligning myself\r\nwith &quot;Mexican hate groups.&quot;\r\n\r\nTurner and yourself also made conflicting statements\r\nsaying on the one hand you had no legal authority to\r\nkeep &quot;W\/N&quot; types away from your demos; yet on the other\r\nclaimed you had the legal authority to keep us &quot;goons&quot;\r\naway. That told me alot about who you wanted aboard.\r\n\r\nAlso, photos of your demos showed that the so-called\r\nline between yourself and &quot;W\/N&quot; groups was practically\r\nnon-existent as SOS members and neo-Nazis mingled with\r\none another. I know some of your members didn't like\r\nthis; but leadership didn't seem to mind.\r\n\r\nThis and other evidence I've compiled seems to indicate that\r\nneither Turner or yourself had much of a problem with\r\n&quot;W\/N&quot; types coming to any of your demos as long as they\r\nkept their views secret. If you didn't invite them, it\r\nsure doesn't appear that way. \r\n\r\nNeed I say more?\r\n\r\n> Go ahead and marginalize what matters, and trump up what\r\n> does not. My involvement with the illegal alien community\r\n> could possibly pre-date your starting date in activism,\r\n> but humanitarian aid is of no importance to you all of\r\n> a sudden ? You are contradicting yourself. \r\n\r\nA humanitarian you are not. You hang out at day laborer\r\ncenters claiming you're fighting &quot;modern slavery&quot;; but in\r\nreality, you attack the &quot;slaves&quot; and threaten them\r\nwith starvation or deportation. You have nothing in common\r\nwith John Brown or Frederick Douglas.\r\n\r\n> As far as the racism, yes racism as defined by a real\r\n> dictionary, not some goof on wiki,\r\n\r\nThe reason why I used the Wikipedia definition of racism\r\nbecause it is similar to what sociologists and cultural\r\nanthropologists use. Perhaps I should have used a source\r\nthat is more &quot;credible.&quot; But what is &quot;credible&quot; to\r\nyou?\r\n\r\n> I have been on the\r\n> receiving end of that for being the wrong color by just\r\n> walking on sidewalk and minding my own business at\r\n> protests. That is the differnce between the sides. We\r\n> do not automatically assume someone is a racist before\r\n> we speak to them personally. \r\n\r\nAlthough it's not my style to call people names at\r\ndemos, why do you think nasty insults are hurled in \r\nyour direction?\r\n\r\nThink it might have something to do with the fact\r\nthe &quot;Save Our State&quot; website is riddled with racist\r\nmessages and imagery?\r\n\r\nAlot of the posts contain words and statements that\r\ndemean whole races and classes of people.\r\n\r\nWhat do you expect?\r\n\r\n> Rafael Renteria has issued death threats at our protests.\r\n> Need more names ? How about Jesse Diaz. Another\r\n> violent and racist man that has made the mistake of\r\n> opening his mouth with violent threats. Should I go on ?\r\n> There is no point. \r\n\r\nI think I asked you to post copies of police reports and\/or other\r\ndocuments filed with law enforcement agencies about persons\r\nwho allegedly &quot;issued death threats at [your] protests.&quot; \r\n\r\nIn addition to this, I also asked you for the names of people\r\nthat I &quot;hang out&quot; with, not individuals that don't live in\r\nOrange County and whom I rarely speak too.\r\n\r\nSo do you have any such official paperwork? If not, I'm not going\r\nto take any of the allegations you make against these two\r\ngentleman seriously.\r\n\r\n> So fine, you are not bringing out the race card\r\n> every 2 minutes. That speaks well of you, of course.\r\n> But, my what I am thinking now, and questioning\r\n> is, just why does anyone really care so much about\r\n> what Earl and you are saying ? I do not see\r\n> where you 2 have done a whole lot activism wise\r\n> in the past year or so. Not trying to be obnoxious\r\n> really, but it just comes to mind.\r\n\r\nI think John Earl and myself can legitimately take credit\r\nfor compiling the facts and evidence that laid the groundwork\r\nfor the federal civil rights lawsuit that the American Civil\r\nLiberties Union filed against Mayor Allan Mansoor, Police\r\nChief John Hensley, and the City of Costa Mesa for violating\r\nCoyotl Tezcatlipoca's right to freedom of speech and expression\r\nat the January 3rd meeting.\r\n\r\nI'm a strong civil libertarian, and I don't think anybody --\r\nincluding yourself -- should be treated the way that\r\nTezcatlipoca was dealt with that night by any politician or\r\ngovernment official.\r\n\r\nOf course, you were posting messages on the SOS website\r\nmaking fun of the whole thing the day after it happened. I\r\nfind that amusing because it shows what contempt you and\r\nother &quot;Minutemen&quot; have toward the law.\r\n\r\nSincerely,\r\n\r\nDuane J. Roberts\r\nduaneroberts92804@yahoo.com","author":"Duane J. Roberts","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-04-01 04:13:41","modified":"2006-04-01 04:13:41","fileurl":""},{"id":152406,"heading":"denial","article":"donnie, r u denying that you invited neonazi to your rallies? if you didnt contact them how did they end up to the rallies? somebody contacted them? you are glued to them donnie? how can u be a christian if you do not want any illegals here? remember jesus do not hate people donnie. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-04-01 05:58:43","modified":"2006-04-01 05:58:43","fileurl":""},{"id":152439,"heading":"reply","article":"&quot;A humanitarian you are not. You hang out at day laborer\r\ncenters claiming you're fighting &quot;modern slavery&quot;; but in\r\nreality, you attack the &quot;slaves&quot; and threaten them\r\nwith starvation or deportation.&quot;\r\n\r\nThis is exactly what I was trying to get at even back in September of 2005. Like I said in the Current TV documentary, I was trying to get some discussion with people from the other side at the time. I rushed into the SOS and Minuteman stuff like a boy who rushes into the Army before thinking. But still, I wanted to hear the views of other people. John Earl can confirm that, he was one of the first I emailed way back in October or November. The more I thought about and saw day labor protests, the more I was uncomfortable with it.\r\n\r\nIf deportation happens, okay, but it won't happen for a while. For now, they have to eat and be alive. And they know how to do that. By working. So why is there a problem with that? I'm not the type to decide who's a real American and who's not. But if I was, I'd probably say that SOS and the MM who protest day labor are unfit to carry the American flag.\r\n\r\nThen of course came the discovery of Stormfront persons, but we all know about that.\r\n\r\nAnyways, yes Don if you claim that people like Jesse Diaz threatened you, let's see some proof. I video taped 1inchgroup. Did you video tape Jesse? Heck, I was told that Diaz was arrested and held for alledged involvement in a bomb plot at a white supremacist concert and that he was let go but his friend(who wasn't named) is still being held. I searched all I could online for this. I read stuff about Jesse's past and how he got into doing what he does today. But nowhere could I find anything about an alleged bomb plot involvement. If there's some records or anything I should search at, please let me know.\r\n\r\nBut one of Gilchrist's people was at least at one point talking around and saying that stuff.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-04-01 08:55:02","modified":"2006-04-01 08:55:02","fileurl":""},{"id":152440,"heading":"speaking of false accusations with no basis","article":"Remember when they accused me of putting nails under their tires in Lake Forest? These MM and SOS people are not beyond false accusations. I've dealt with it firsthand. And they do this with American flags.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-04-01 08:58:32","modified":"2006-04-01 08:58:32","fileurl":""},{"id":152460,"heading":"maybe their own","article":"just maybe it could be their own people who plant the nails. why does majority of the minuteman\/sos had a criminial record? how ironic they are blaming somebody else for crimes. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-04-01 15:25:44","modified":"2006-04-01 15:25:44","fileurl":""},{"id":152461,"heading":"reply","article":"That's a good point and it's been speculated. But one of the cars actually backed up and all four tires I think were punctured. Or if your scenario was the case, maybe it was a screw up and not everyone was in on it(like the unfortunate driver LOL).","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-04-01 15:29:54","modified":"2006-04-01 15:29:54","fileurl":""},{"id":152463,"heading":"Obey","article":"obey aka ragedy ann aka debbie saddler and her bf oneinchgroup aka oneinchcock aka raggedy andy aka dave","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-04-01 15:34:10","modified":"2006-04-01 15:34:10","fileurl":""},{"id":152465,"heading":"reply","article":"I think it was her who speculated it. I wasn't aware that she is posting as &quot;Obey&quot; on the SOS forums.\r\n\r\nShe also speculated that the Neo-nazis at Laguna on July 30th 2005 were fake, as in a set up from SOS's opposition. Imposter Nazis, haha. Well oddly enough, I can sort of almost confirm that to be untrue. The Neo-nazis were real. If they were imposter Nazis, my friend would have been in on it because he knew them to a certain degree. No, he told me that he was expected to hang with them and advised me at first to arrive separately from him. But we arrived before they did anyways and I went in basically &quot;derrrrrr, okay let's go protest.&quot; Well I didn't say that, but basically I shoulda been like &quot;okay, Nazis, you can go rally, I'll go eat something on PCH and not even go there.&quot;","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":150852,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-04-01 15:44:59","modified":"2006-04-01 15:44:59","fileurl":""}]}