{"article":{"id":147564,"heading":"Local Minuteman Nears Breaking Point","author":"Next Move","created":"2006-02-18 00:55:09","modified":"2013-11-11 00:38:19","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:38:19","article":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><body><p>Providing more evidence that many of the local Minutemen are nothing more than Rambo wanabees, a Save Our State member who posts under the moniker of Orion released a call this morning to fellow SOS members asking for help with an impromptu, spontaneous border watch operation.  The tone and tenor of his posts reveals him to be agitated and most likely armed and dangerous.   <br><br> (see below for excerpts from the thread) <br><br> Some SOS members added their input or suggestions as to how best conduct this operation including Border Raven who suggests bringing along an &ldquo;axe, saw and shovel,&rdquo; and another who suggest bringing along some, &ldquo;zipcuffs&rdquo;.  Not all SOS response was positive though.  Cazamigrante urges the Minuteman to &ldquo;be sure to emphasize that you're NOT with SOS, any Minutemen.&rdquo;   <br><br> For Minutemen and their ilk the immigration\/day labor issue has become something that defines it&rsquo;s own terms, operates within it&rsquo;s own reality and draws in people from the very fringes of our society, desperate to lash out at any perceived enemy, real or imagined.   <br><br> When a man (presumably) is driven to the point where he is spontaneously willing to single-handedly patrol a 1951 mile international border with or without help, one can only deduce that this man is operating from an irrational, fear-based internal decision making paradigm.  What other conclusion is there? <br><br> And what more could be expected to be the logical end point for a movement that defines itself as offering a solution to the problems facing people in our modern society when in fact they simply blame the most vulnerable of our society for the problem inherent within the system. <br><br>  <br>  <br> **BELOW ARE EXCEPTS TAKEN FROM THE THREAD** <br><br> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=8036\">http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=8036<\/a> <br><br> Orion:   <br>  <br> I am going to the cal border this weekend and would like some back up, I am going to confront illegal crossers and stand in the gap. I will be armed (of course) and probably not welcome by MMP\/BWF due to my strategy. If I am fired upon, so be it! I will return fire; I am so sick of this BS I cant take it anymore. <br>  <br> Who's comin' with me? no one? well at least pray for me, since I will need it. <br><br> cercas hacen a buenos vecinos: <br>  <br> If you plan on making a citizens arrests, be sure to have a partner on cover, zipcuffs, and BP on speed dial. I wouldnt bother with trying to stop groups of more than 2 or 3 in number, unless you have a squad-sized team. <br>  <br> Wear a vest with a rifle plate- level IV protection. A kevlar helmet wouldnt hurt either. <br>  <br> Good luck. <br><br>  <br>  <br> Border Raven: <br>  <br> Oh, stop at the VFW and cover your license plates, and any distinguishing marks on your vehicle. People will take your picture and video your activities.  <br>  <br> If you can take an axe, saw and shovel, some tarps, rope, water, food, etc. <br><br>  <br><br> I&rsquo;mwithYa: <br>  <br> I wish I was well and younger---I would love to go with you. But I am not. <br>  <br> I will pray for you! BIGTIME. <br>  <br> Please be careful! <br><br>  <br>  <br> Cazamigrante: <br>  <br> Oh Please, BY ALL MEANS, GO ALONE! <br>  <br> Be sure to emphasize that you're NOT with SOS, any Minutemen, or any other similarly organized law-abiding anti-illegal\/border watch group, but that you are a lone gunman, intending entirely ON YOUR OWN PART to violate the laws of the United States by attempting to enforce federal immigration law WITHOUT ANY AUTHORITY TO DO SO, and by using violence and threatening deadly force entirely without any reason, provocation, or legal justification. <br>  <br> That way, when you're either shot by Mexicans, or the Border Patrol throws you in one of their trucks, we'll all know where to point and laugh. <br><br> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=8036\">http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=8036<\/a> <br>  <br> <\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","summary":"The information below was taken from the Save Our State message board from a thread entitled :  \u201cborder ops in cali, please join me\u201d","numcomment":17,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/2006\/02\/anti-mm_campo_7-23__7-24-05_010.jpg","filesize":"43.3 kibibytes","article_url":"\/news\/2006\/02\/147564.php","image":{"original":"\/uploads\/2006\/02\/anti-mm_campo_7-23__7-24-05_010.jpg","small":"\/uploads\/2006\/02\/anti-mm_campo_7-23__7-24-05_010.jpgthumb.jpg","medium":"\/uploads\/2006\/02\/anti-mm_campo_7-23__7-24-05_010.jpgmid.jpg"}},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":147597,"heading":"axe, saw and shovel","article":"Are you paranoid?\r\n\r\nWhat's the issue about and axe, saw and shovel? I keep them in my truck, for camping, off road travel, and preparedness.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-18 05:06:32","modified":"2006-02-18 05:06:32","fileurl":""},{"id":147607,"heading":"reply","article":"What's funny is that they're also talking about civil disobedience on the SOS forums. Wow, that would be like, so badass and alternative of them. Absolute counter-culture, dude! I can see it now. A bunch of people in their 40's, 50's and older running around wearing bandanas over their mouths and noses(poorly tied of course) and blocking traffic in front of the CA state capital.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-18 08:28:39","modified":"2006-02-18 08:28:39","fileurl":""},{"id":147608,"heading":"civil disobedience","article":"Civil disobedience, can be civil. \r\n\r\nPassive non-cooperation, is prefered over violent confrontation. \r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-18 08:44:09","modified":"2006-02-18 08:44:09","fileurl":""},{"id":147651,"heading":"time","article":"     Orion seems to have too much time on his hands or a depressing situation at home. He should find something harmless to do - like watching the skies for flying saucers with his buddies or attempting to photograph Bigfoot. Just so long as he doesn't get into anything involving firearms and beer - just ask Dick Cheney.","author":"Meyer London","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-18 21:46:07","modified":"2006-02-18 21:46:07","fileurl":""},{"id":147668,"heading":"firearm and beer","article":"When i went to the border this past late spring and early summer when we shouted down the minuteman I could smell beer and alcohol on minuteman's breath. also, they were carrying guns too. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-18 23:33:33","modified":"2006-02-18 23:33:33","fileurl":""},{"id":147676,"heading":"El Chivo","article":"&quot;When i went to the border this past late spring and early summer when we shouted down the minuteman I could smell beer and alcohol on minuteman's breath. also, they were carrying guns too. &quot;\r\n\r\nUnsubstantiated allegation.  \r\n\r\nNext!\r\n","author":"Debate Coach","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 01:23:54","modified":"2006-02-19 01:23:54","fileurl":""},{"id":147684,"heading":"&quot;Debate Coach&quot;","article":"You mean *this* debate coach?\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/sf.indymedia.org\/news\/2004\/07\/1698659.php\r\n\r\n(snip)\r\n\r\ndebate coach\r\n\r\n(snip)","author":"just wondering","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 03:42:26","modified":"2006-02-19 03:42:26","fileurl":""},{"id":147688,"heading":"Unsubstantiated? So what?","article":"The testimony of a witness is valid and considered &quot;substantiated&quot; in a debate to the extent that the group to be influenced finds the source credible.  \r\n\r\nI believe the word you're looking for is &quot;uncooborated.&quot;  But uncooborated testimony isn't necessarily invalid or untrue either.  It's just what it is: uncooborated.\r\n\r\nAnd given that the VP finds it acceptable to drink beer and then shoot a gun, I don't find it entirely improbable that a Minuteman would do the same.  Granted, that's weak cooboration, based an implicit connection between the VP and minutemen through the common activity of hunting (analogy) and\/or  the position of leadership of the VP vis a vis the Minutemen (authority), but still, there it is.","author":"Coach's Coach","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 04:52:37","modified":"2006-02-19 04:52:37","fileurl":""},{"id":147690,"heading":"Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms","article":"Alcohol, Tobacco, and Firearms shouldn't be a government agency, it should be a convenience store.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 05:02:48","modified":"2006-02-19 05:02:48","fileurl":""},{"id":147691,"heading":"Minutemen (authority)","article":"Thanks for putting those two words, in the same sentence.\r\n\r\nAs a Minuteman, I do respect my authority, to act within the US Constitution, and under the Bill of Rights.\r\n\r\nI don't need to be formerly &quot;deputized&quot; as some have suggested, I am a patriot. Besides, I am retired military, still getting paid to do my duty, to defend the US Constitution, against all enemies, both foreign and domestic.\r\n\r\nServing Proudly\r\n\r\nBR\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 05:16:10","modified":"2006-02-19 05:16:10","fileurl":""},{"id":147694,"heading":"Border Raven","article":"You meant to say you are former military, still on the public &quot;teat&quot;.  \r\n\r\nAnd I think you meant to say &quot;formally&quot; deputized, not formerly.  I don't mean to correct you but I think you need a little &quot;authority&quot; in your life... ;).","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 07:07:05","modified":"2006-02-19 07:07:05","fileurl":""},{"id":147706,"heading":"SOS Thread removed","article":"Note: SOS has removed the related thread from their board.","author":"Next Move","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 08:29:31","modified":"2006-02-19 08:29:31","fileurl":""},{"id":147709,"heading":"uncooborated","article":"&quot;Corroborated.&quot;\r\n\r\n","author":"johnk","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 12:01:10","modified":"2006-02-19 12:01:10","fileurl":""},{"id":147721,"heading":"debate coach=Border Raven aka Gerry!","article":"debate coach=border raven. it's funny your the same person! I am watching you gerry like a couple weeks ago your minutewoman. are you that lonely you need to use a imaginary friend. are you still brainwashed from the military? you have to go out and join the civil society.","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 17:51:16","modified":"2006-02-19 17:51:16","fileurl":""},{"id":147759,"heading":"Maybe they should look 4 chupacabras","article":"Gwak gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  gwak gwak  ...","author":"LORI SILVA (Donkey Sliver's wife)","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 22:56:01","modified":"2006-02-20 16:15:33","fileurl":""},{"id":147763,"heading":"Rambo","article":"Well, well, well.\r\n\r\nThis Orion character needs psychiatric help.  I'm not kidding.  His plan is nothing more than a death wish, suicidal no matter how you look at it.\r\n\r\nOrion could be, and probably would be, shot by the BP, Sheriff or smugglers.   The peeps that cross into the US looking for work are mostly unarmed.  And, if they are armed, it's usually with a small utility knife - ask the BP.","author":"Pachuco","parent_id":147564,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-19 23:36:54","modified":"2006-02-19 23:36:54","fileurl":""}]}