{"article":{"id":145258,"heading":"Study showing SOS is attacking GOOD people","author":"1planet1people","created":"2006-01-24 04:01:54","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:43","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:37:43","article":"

A recent study (reported below) shows that most day labors are involved in their community, and trying to be good people. Further, there are too few of them to negatively affect the community. They usually earn money, helping people, not companies. What they need is our support, not our anger. SOS is blaming them for the effects of neo-globalization. In light of this study, SOS is not evil; they have simply been misinformed, and are blaming immigrants for the free trade policies the same way that Americans are told to blame Muslims for the attacks of 9\/11. What we need to do is to educate these ignorant people as to the evil in their ways, and then get them to stand against the true enemies that we commonly share (neo-libs and neo-cons). Anyway, here is the report.....

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Study Gives Snapshot of Day Laborers By PETER PRENGAMAN, Associated Press Writer

Sun Jan 22, 5:03 PM ET





LOS ANGELES - The immigrant day laborers who wait for work on street corners across the United States have families and attend church regularly, and the people who hire them are more likely to be individual homeowners than construction contractors.

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The first nationwide study of day laborers also found that one in five has been injured on the job and nearly half have been cheated out of pay.

The study, the most detailed snapshot to date of the mostly Hispanic and often undocumented immigrants who've become a focal point in the immigration debate, was based on interviews of 2,660 workers at 264 hiring sites in 20 states and the District of Columbia.

The authors said they were surprised by the level of community involvement among men often thought of as transients.

\"The day labor corner is not as disconnected from society as people think. It's seen as a shadow economy, but that's really not the case,\" said professor Nik Theodore of the University of Illinois at Chicago, one of three study authors. The others were from the University of California, Los Angeles, and New York's New School University.

Standing outside a Home Depot store in suburban Burbank on Sunday, 33-year-old Raul Sanchez said that when he's not working, or waiting for work, he's involved in a church and tried to start a soccer league for fellow day laborers. The native of Mexico has been in the United States seven years and lives with his wife and two children, ages 13 and 14.

Sometimes he worries about small work sites with little safety equipment.

\"We know nobody is going to help us out if we get hurt,\" Sanchez said. \"There are risks, but what are we going to do — not work?\"

As often as not, a day laborer's employer will be an individual rather than a labor contractor.

Forty-nine percent of respondents said they were regularly hired by homeowners for everything from carpentry to gardening, with 43 percent getting jobs from construction contractors. Two-thirds said they are hired repeatedly by the same employer.

Based on their interviews and counts at each hiring site, the researchers estimate there are about 117,600 day laborers nationwide, but say that number is probably low. They said it would be impossible to count the number of hiring sites nationwide, since some spring up spontaneously.

Among the other findings based on the interviews conducted in July and August 2004:

_Three-fourths were illegal immigrants and most were Hispanic: 59 percent were from Mexico and 28 percent from other Central American countries.

_Just over half said they attended church regularly, 22 percent reported being involved in sports clubs and 26 percent said they participated in community centers.

_Nearly two-thirds had children, 36 percent were married and seven percent lived with a partner.

_More than 80 percent rely on day labor as their sole source of income, earning close to the 2005 federal poverty guideline of $12,830 for a family of two.

_Of the 20 percent who reported on-the-job injuries, more than half said they received no medical care because they couldn't afford it or their employer refused to cover them.

Cesar Martinez, 45, another of the people waiting for work at the Home Depot in Burbank, is a Guatemala native who has been in the United States for 15 years without legal documentation. He said he sends $300 to $500 home every month to support his six children, ages 2 to 14, but that sometimes an employer rips him off.

\"I couldn't complain because I'm not here legally, but I was so angry because I need every cent,\" he said. \"I'm always thinking, 'Are they going to pay me, am I going to get to work 8 hours on this job, will I get hurt doing it?'\"

<\/p>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"","numcomment":61,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2006\/01\/145258.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":145260,"heading":"DEPORT THEM ALL!!!!!!!!!!!","article":"DEPORT ALL THESE SOS\/MINUTEMEN TYPES BACK TO GERMANY WHERE THEY BELONG!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!","author":"Patriot","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 04:24:40","modified":"2006-01-24 04:24:40","fileurl":""},{"id":145261,"heading":"Three-fourths were illegal immigrants","article":""Three-fourths were illegal immigrants and most were Hispanic: 59 percent were from Mexico and 28 percent from other Central American countries."\r\n\r\nSeparate the legal immigrants from the illegals, and deport the illegals, and I'll get bored.\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 04:32:06","modified":"2006-01-24 04:32:06","fileurl":""},{"id":145285,"heading":"1\/4 were legal","article":"That means, at these protests, you might be demonstrating against people who have legal status. Think about that one a little harder.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 08:03:17","modified":"2006-01-24 08:03:17","fileurl":""},{"id":145300,"heading":"1\/4 were legal?","article":"True, but that's not the issue. That's the group we don't focus on. \r\n\r\nLegal is good. Right?\r\n\r\nI would have less to complain about, If employers would:\r\n-- use the DHS I-9 form, and hire eligible employees, \r\n-- use the IRS Form W-4 and deduct payroll taxes,\r\n-- pay a fair wage*.\r\n\r\n* This would require the employees to ask for $15 an hour, so they could have enough after deductions to live on. BTW -- Given a commute distance, and a person's budget of living expenses, I can give a wage estimate within $3, based on 160 hours a month. \r\n\r\nBut, considering day laborers are Part-Time,and work maybe 16 to 24 hours a week, without benefits, they should really be asking for $35 to $50** per hour ($100 per day), to cover self-employment taxes, medical and dental, etc. \r\n-- not that all employees would report income, if paid in cash, so employers must pay by check, keep records and itemize expenses.\r\n\r\n** If employers, don't want to pay that much, they can go to an employment agency or hire the worker full time. \r\n\r\nRead the signs at the protests. Ours and those of our opposition. What do we say, compared to them?\r\nWhich makes more sense, and focuses on the issues, compared to which avoid the issues, and waste time?\r\n\r\nWe, or at least I focus on:\r\n-- the workers who are not eligible for employment, in the USA, \r\n-- the illegal immigrants, who shall be deported,\r\n-- the greedy, unscrupulous employers who hire them, in the underground economy, \r\n-- the cities who offer sanctuary, thus attracting both the un-eligible employees and the crooked employers.\r\n\r\nThe good news? The longer this train continues down the track, the less, control I will have over it, eventually it will crash, and you or your generation, will pay for the cleanup.\r\n\r\nAt least, I can say, "I tried to tell them, but they said they knew all the answers."\r\n\r\nOr should that be "A.N.S.W.E.R.s"?\r\n\r\nI mean why do we see a bunch of mostly OLD folks, in this fight, who have been in this fight since 1994?\r\n\r\nCould it be because they saw the train about to crash, or the ship was off course, and jumped into action to save everyone else?\r\n\r\nNever mind, giving me an answer, because I know how I feel, and I'm not changing, but you and the younger generations, will carry the load, or run and hide under your beds.\r\n\r\nRespectfully,\r\n\r\n:)\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 14:07:13","modified":"2006-01-24 14:07:13","fileurl":""},{"id":145328,"heading":"1099 not W4","article":"Don't be trying to baffle us with your bullshit.\r\n\r\nThey're independent contractors, so the client is supposed to get the tax id info, and then file a 1099 (to deduct the expense). The IRS uses that to check that the contractor is paying their taxes. There are no payroll taxes -- the self-employment tax substitutes for the payroll tax.\r\n\r\nOf course, a lot of work is done in cash, so they dodge taxes. If you're not making much (like 10k a year) the IRS won't care. The fed is happy that you're working. They'll bother you when you have money.\r\n\r\nIt's a mixed bag, dodging taxes. You don't pay Social Security, so, you end up not accruing that. That's not good.\r\n\r\n(Also, the idea that labor would get *cheaper* at a temp agency is ridiculous. The agency takes a cut.)\r\n\r\nAlso, you say:\r\n----------------------------\r\n We, or at least I focus on:\r\n-- the workers who are not eligible for employment, in the USA,\r\n-- the illegal immigrants, who shall be deported,\r\n-- the greedy, unscrupulous employers who hire them, in the underground economy,\r\n-- the cities who offer sanctuary, thus attracting both the un-eligible employees and the crooked employers. \r\n\r\n--------------------------------\r\n\r\nPlease. You're all focused on the workers because they are Latin American. They're an easy target.\r\n\r\n","author":"johnk","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 22:31:52","modified":"2006-01-24 22:31:52","fileurl":""},{"id":145340,"heading":"focused on the workers because they are Latin American","article":"Where they came from is defacto, matter of fact, and beyond my control. I'd be doing it the same, if they were purple, and from Xenon.\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 01:44:08","modified":"2006-01-25 01:44:08","fileurl":""},{"id":145363,"heading":"Purple and White","article":"Border Raven wrote:\r\n\r\n"Where they came from is defacto, matter of fact, and beyond my control. I'd be doing it the same, if they were purple, and from Xenon."\r\n\r\nRight, big man, but not if they were white people from Europe, huh?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Jose","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 08:44:05","modified":"2006-01-25 08:44:05","fileurl":""},{"id":145364,"heading":"Purple and White?","article":"I meant what I said. \r\n\r\nNow, you are free to waste your time, stretching and slanting the issue, but that's what children do.\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 08:48:49","modified":"2006-01-25 08:48:49","fileurl":""},{"id":145365,"heading":"The ACTUAL Figures","article":"According to the report 25% have green cards. \r\n\r\n11% are in the midst of the application process for green cards \r\n\r\nand 7% are US citizens.\r\n\r\nFor those of us who can add, that makes 43% of the laborers at the day labor centers who are either working legally, or in the process of establishing legality.\r\n\r\nThat means almost HALF of those that the MInuteKlan are targeting are "innocent" by the minuteklan's professed (but not real) standards.\r\n\r\n","author":"Minuteman Hunter","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 08:49:59","modified":"2006-01-25 08:49:59","fileurl":""},{"id":145366,"heading":"Purple and White","article":"Since the number of migrants who are purple is zero, it's a moot point.\r\n\r\nAll we know for certain is that the migrants you are in fact targeting are Brown, not purple, and not white.\r\n\r\nThe rest of it is so much drivel and empty claims.\r\n\r\n","author":"Jose","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 08:54:50","modified":"2006-01-25 08:54:50","fileurl":""},{"id":145378,"heading":"White Undocumented","article":"Maybe the SOS should have a big rally protesting against one of those Irish theme pubs in Santa Monica.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 12:30:35","modified":"2006-01-25 12:30:35","fileurl":""},{"id":145380,"heading":"White Undocumented?","article":"I suggest March 17th, because those Irish pubs will be heavily populated with undocumented-Irish, drinking green beer, and puking same.\r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 12:41:18","modified":"2006-01-25 12:41:18","fileurl":""},{"id":145386,"heading":"Cofused","article":"According to those figures 57% are illegal that means more than half. Don't spin it dosn't project you in a good light. \r\n\r\nRegardless, if that were the case, how would one know? \r\n\r\nThe federal government has in place a computor system that you can verify ones legal status. Why not incorporate that at the day labor centers? Would I be correct in stating if the system was put in place that it would end the protests? Or would SOS protest anyway?\r\n\r\nIf they continued to protest after incorporating the system then you could rightfully state that they were racists. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Confused","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 14:10:25","modified":"2006-01-25 14:10:25","fileurl":""},{"id":145590,"heading":"SOS Computer Demos","article":"Will that be the next demand? Install a PC with DSL at the DLC to contact SSN and then the INS. \r\n\r\nMaybe the SOS should open up a DLC.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 11:34:02","modified":"2006-01-27 11:34:02","fileurl":""},{"id":145593,"heading":"Maybe the SOS should open up a DLC?","article":"Nah, I'd rather be a consultant.\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 13:04:14","modified":"2006-01-27 13:04:14","fileurl":""},{"id":145600,"heading":"The actual facts","article":"I do not care how many legals\/illegals\/in the process of cheating\/ there are standing in loose formation at the DLC here in Sac anymore. the place is a mess. The workers are working illegaly; The contractors are hiring illegaly; the homeowners are hiring illegaly; Some of the locals are profitting from it and most are paying a dear price for it. So It needs to come to an immediate end, regardless of whether they are legal citizens or not. Day labor centers promote under the table economies; contribute heavily to the decline of the immediatley adjacent neighborhoods; Allow some companies to compete unfairly; and now it is encouraging gang bangers who are preying upon them. So now the police must investigate and respond to yet another swell of crimes that will not have any tax base from which to draw the money with which to do so. So WHO do you think will suffer that? The local taxpaying residents who will either lose more services or be asked to pay more money.\r\nEND ALL DAY LABOR CENTERS REGARDLESS OF IMMIGRATION STATUS. That wouldn't be too racist for you now would it? That way there would be no discriminatory beef. If they are mostly legal as you say, they should be able to get gainfully employed without making this problem for everyone. If they aren't then they get treated the same as those who are.","author":"AyatollahGondola","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 17:14:09","modified":"2006-01-27 17:14:09","fileurl":""},{"id":145620,"heading":"Step 2","article":"Step 1--target undocumented Mexican workers for detention\/deportation\r\n\r\nStep 2--target Mexican-descent workers for detention\/deportation\r\n\r\nStep 3--scapegoat all Mexican-descent people for all the ills of society\r\n\r\nStep 3--remove all Mexican-descent people.","author":"Leslie","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 21:29:12","modified":"2006-01-27 21:29:12","fileurl":""},{"id":145622,"heading":"Wild extrapolation","article":"I said I do not care where they are from. The law applies to all, and just because they are mexican is no reason to extend a special courtesy to them. What do you think these DL's did prior to gathering at spots like these? Obviously there have been other options in the past that kept them alive. In the past ten years, and especially so the last five, the day labor sites have swelled in population. The united states is not the only spot which is capable of economic empowerment. And Americans should not have to shoulder their betterment at the cost of our lawful society.","author":"AyatollahGondola","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 22:02:44","modified":"2006-01-27 22:02:44","fileurl":""},{"id":145624,"heading":"Ayatollah","article":"If you don't care about where they come from, go get the ones from China! What about the illegal Europeans taking up manager jobs here? What about the high paying jobs and money of yours they're taking? You are clearly targeting latinos. You know it.","author":"K2 activist","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 22:22:00","modified":"2006-01-27 22:22:00","fileurl":""},{"id":145641,"heading":"Underground Economy Operations","article":"Underground Economy Operations \r\n\r\nDefinition of "Underground Economy" \r\n\r\n"Underground economy" is a term that refers to those individuals and businesses that deal in cash and\/or use other schemes to conceal their activities and their true tax liability from government licensing, regulatory, and taxing agencies. Underground economy is also referred to as tax evasion, tax fraud, cash pay, tax gap, payments under-the-table, and off-the-books. \r\n\r\nWhat Does It Cost You? \r\n\r\nThe Internal Revenue Service recently estimated that the federal government is losing $195 billion per year in revenue due to underground activity. In addition, it is estimated the size of the underground economy is anywhere from 3 to 40 percent of the aboveground economy. Based on this estimate, the California underground economy is estimated to be $60 to $140 billion. \r\n\r\nReports on the underground economy indicate it imposes significant burdens on: (1) the State of California, (2) businesses that comply with the law, and (3) workers who lose benefits and other protections provided by State law when the businesses they work for operate in the underground economy. \r\n\r\nBusiness: \r\n\r\nWhen businesses operate in the underground economy, they illegally reduce the amount of money expensed for insurance, payroll taxes, licenses, employee benefits, safety equipment, and safety conditions. These types of employers then gain an unfair competitive advantage over businesses that comply with the various business laws. This causes unfair competition in the marketplace and forces law-abiding businesses to pay higher taxes and expenses. \r\n\r\nWorkers: \r\n\r\nEmployees of the businesses that do not comply are also affected. Their working conditions may not meet the legal requirements, which can put them in danger. Their wage earnings may also be less than those required by law, and benefits they are entitled to can be denied or delayed because their wages are not properly reported. \r\n\r\nConsumers: \r\n\r\nConsumers can also be affected when contracting with unlicensed businesses. Licensing provisions are designed to ensure minimum levels of skill and knowledge to protect the consumer. \r\n\r\nThe ultimate impact is erosion of the economic stability and working conditions in this State. \r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.edd.ca.gov\/taxrep\/txueoind.htm\r\n\r\n(NOTE: the source is the California EDD.)\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 01:10:16","modified":"2006-01-28 01:10:16","fileurl":""},{"id":145644,"heading":"go get the ones from China","article":"I just drove by the Home Depot in Garden Grove, and there weren't any Chinese there, although GG is heavy with Asians. Strange, I did see a lot of latinos. \r\n\r\nI am not saying you are wrong and I am right, but I will allow you the opportunity, to post some pictures of Asians, loitering for jobs, at a DLC or Home Depot lot.\r\n\r\nTo make it interesting, I'll even offer to pay out $.05 (one US nickel) for each picture of an Asian, that can be found in LA County and the OC, at a DLC or Home Depot DLC, up to a combined total of $50.\r\n\r\nYou got it right, I am offering a nickel bounty, per picture of a living and breathing person, up to one-thousand, who is an Asian, but who is at a DLC, seeking a job.\r\n\r\nDeadline: \r\n12:00 Noon, \r\nSaturday July 1, 2006 at \r\nCarl's Jr, Anaheim, \r\ncorner of State College and Katella. \r\n(By Angel's Stadium.)\r\n\r\nFirst come, first served, and let's see who can get the most of my $50 in nickels.\r\n\r\nAre you game?\r\n\r\nThe clock is running.\r\n\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 01:35:29","modified":"2006-01-28 01:35:29","fileurl":""},{"id":145648,"heading":"Clarification, plz","article":"A few posts above, Ayatollah was saying opposing day laborers wasn't about opposing Mexicans. Now he's saying that the vast majority of the day laborers are Mexicans and is even offering a reward to anyone who disproves him. Which is it? Is this about Mexicans or not?\r\n\r\nOh, wait, I've got it! It's about Mexicans, but not because they're Mexican. That's just incidental, it's just an accident of history that the Minutemen have risen up at the precise historical moment that Mexicans have chosen to immigrate. So it's not about Mexicans, it's about immigrants, who just happen to be mostly Mexican, _coincidently_ at the same historical moment the minutemen take up arms and march to the border.\r\n\r\nYeah, right.","author":"Leslie","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 02:07:22","modified":"2006-01-28 02:07:22","fileurl":""},{"id":145651,"heading":"missing the point","article":"What does compel one to leave their home? To cross hostile spaces? To leave their friends family and culture? Desperation in most cases.\r\nWhy are our immediate southern neighbors so desperate?\r\nIt's the corporatism and grinding poverty generated to keep it going.\r\nYou SOS types are useful idiots, as Stalin would say, to the corporate class.\r\nThe world is mulitplex. Not simple.","author":"heck","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 03:14:47","modified":"2006-01-28 03:14:47","fileurl":""},{"id":145653,"heading":"Asian Laboring","article":"If you're Asian with limited English, how would you find work in So Cal? You'd do it via networks of friend and associates. \r\n\r\nNot enough people know your language(s). I know in GG, there are Koreans, Vietnamese, and Chinese in large numbers. Even between Chinese, there's no guarantee you'll speak a common language. Unlike Spanish, they don't teach Asian languages at many high schools, so, people just don't know a bunch of useful phrases in an Asian language. (They only know how to say "f your mother.")\r\n\r\nSo, the way it works is: if you speak Spanish, and know little English, maybe 15% to 20% of GG can communicate with your. If you know only, say, Korean, the number is probably less than 5%.\r\n\r\nSo, even if we disregard differences in the groups (regarding how, why, and when they came over), the language barrier alone would reduce your chances of finding work on the street considerably.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 03:23:25","modified":"2006-01-28 03:23:25","fileurl":""},{"id":145902,"heading":"Maybe it's about","article":"Maybe it's about people who don't follow immigration laws, the majority of which, just happen to be Mexicans -- our beloved neighbor to the south. \r\n\r\nMaybe it's about American's being fed up, with the government's failure, to secure our nation's border, before and after 9\/11.\r\n\r\nThen we learn all the immigrants working in the USA, are pumping cash out of our economy, back to their still impoverished and corrupt homelands, as the USA, sends $Billions of tax dollars, in foreign aid, while maintaining record debt.\r\n\r\nWhen our local school districts are pumping a certain demographic balance, into adulthood, it is alarming to see an imbalanced demographic loitering in the parking lot of the local Home Depot, who happen to look 30 to 45.\r\n\r\nMaybe it is a combination of things we continue to rehash in discussions, and people just get fed up, with the waste of time, and take action. \r\n\r\nIf, as the evidence shows, those loitering in our streets are illegal aliens, and thus not eligible for employment, in the USA, then they should leave voluntarily.\r\n\r\nIf a person's temporary status is about to end, then they should be packing and making travel arrangements. Oh, and if during their visit they gave birth to a baby, no citizenship should be awarded, to the child.\r\n\r\nMaybe the jig is up. The secret plot has been exposed. The wolf has shed his sheep's coat. The party is not fun anymore. The honeymoon is over.\r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-31 13:50:19","modified":"2006-01-31 13:50:19","fileurl":""},{"id":145921,"heading":"More coming?","article":""we learn all the immigrants working in the USA, are pumping cash out of our economy, back to their still impoverished and corrupt homelands"\r\n\r\nOh my! If this wasn't happening maybe more would come....","author":"American","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-31 21:46:51","modified":"2006-01-31 21:46:51","fileurl":""},{"id":145962,"heading":"Yeah Ayatollah","article":"Maybe it's just about the "law" and Mexicans happen to be breaking the "law."\r\n\r\nAnd maybe the Chinese Exclusion Act was really about Germans. ","author":"Nazi Hunter","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 06:54:25","modified":"2006-02-01 06:54:25","fileurl":""},{"id":145963,"heading":"Ayatollah, Border Raven","article":"Whatever.\r\n\r\nI mean MInute Woman.\r\n\r\nI get them all confused.","author":"Nazi Hunter","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 06:56:04","modified":"2006-02-01 06:56:04","fileurl":""},{"id":145967,"heading":"Evading the issue won't solve the problem","article":"From Nazi Hunter: "And maybe the Chinese Exclusion Act was really about Germans"\r\n\r\nFocus on the issue of illegal immigration.\r\n\r\nBTW -- Have you seen any Nazis lately? Point them out to me. \r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 09:39:49","modified":"2006-02-01 09:39:49","fileurl":""},{"id":145978,"heading":"Here's Lookin At Cha","article":"Yeah, I'm talkin to one via the web right now.","author":"Nazi Hunter","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 16:22:12","modified":"2006-02-01 16:22:12","fileurl":""},{"id":145979,"heading":"Chinese Exclusion","article":"The Chinese Exclusion Act was the first law banning any group from immigrating to the so-called US. It made their entry illegal. \r\n\r\nIt is exactly on point, and the evasion here is your evasion of the meaning of the continutiy of white nationalism and its ongoing historic efforts to exclude non-whites, an effort you are part of.","author":"Nazi Hunter","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 16:26:46","modified":"2006-02-01 16:26:46","fileurl":""},{"id":145985,"heading":"I'll take efforts to exclude non-whites","article":"and anyone else who cannot follow immigration laws.\r\n\r\nI find your efforts to dig deeply into the past, to make your point, stupid.\r\n\r\nI'm only going by my experiences, since 1954. I have seen this illegal invasion continue inabatted, and I want it stopped. I expected the borders to be secured, before and after 9\/11. I have met and talked to a few in the open borders lobby, and they say they will continue to come, and I can't stop them.\r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 20:07:30","modified":"2006-02-01 20:07:30","fileurl":""},{"id":145987,"heading":"B.S.","article":"Calling it an "invasion" is bullshit. they come because THEY HAVE TO!!!","author":"K2 activist","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 20:32:26","modified":"2006-02-01 20:32:26","fileurl":""},{"id":146004,"heading":"THEY HAVE TO? Prove it.","article":"If they have to come, then they wouldn't be returning home freely, to see their families. They wouldn't be sending money home to build their homes, in the towns they fled. They would stay here.\r\n\r\nBesides, by your statement, I infer the invaders, have had to come here, since they began, so many years ago. They WANT TO come here. They come voluntarily, well mostly, except the children kidnapped into prostitution to service the farm workers, at $30 for 5 minutes.\r\n\r\nloscristeros.org\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 22:26:38","modified":"2006-02-01 22:26:38","fileurl":""},{"id":146021,"heading":"BS Again","article":"They come here as economic refugees. Because they have no hope of decent work and dignity in Mexico. They have no choice but to come up here to get what they can to survive.","author":"K2 activist","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 02:12:42","modified":"2006-02-02 02:12:42","fileurl":""},{"id":146033,"heading":"They come here as economic refugees","article":"They don't come here as economc refugees, that's a myth. They have a life, back home. They come here for the "Gold Rush" of $6 and hour and a $3 Big Mac, versus $.60 and hour and $.30 tacos. \r\n\r\nI don't see you going to Japan, the UK, Thailand, The Phillipines, etc, which have better economies or lower cost of living.\r\n\r\nThe illegals come here because we allow them free entry and exit. We will tighten restrictions in comming years. We will grab Fox by the balls and squeeze hard.\r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 04:31:25","modified":"2006-02-02 04:31:25","fileurl":""},{"id":146034,"heading":"Here's Lookin At Cha","article":"Nazi Hunter, you are a lame ass punk.\r\n\r\nWhen are you going to come out of the closet and meet me on the street?\r\n\r\nYou got guts to hide behind a keyboard and call me a "Nazi," stand before me and we'll get it on video.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 04:40:29","modified":"2006-02-02 04:40:29","fileurl":""},{"id":146036,"heading":"Other Migrations","article":"> I don't see you going to Japan, the UK, Thailand, The Phillipines, etc, which have better economies or lower cost of living. \r\n\r\nNot sure who you meant by "you", but, there is a lot of migration into the UK and Japan, and out of Thailand and the Philippines.\r\n\r\nIn the UK, there has always been a large flow of Asians, Orientals, Blacks, and other Europeans. The subjects of the old Empire still go to the center of the Empire. They do this despite the decline of the Empire.\r\n\r\nIn Japan, there are people from Brasil, Japanese Brasilians, who "return" (having never been to Japan before) to seek work. There are immigrants to Japan from the Philippines, Taiwan, China, Iran, and the US too... though not lately due to a declining economy.\r\n\r\nIn Thailand, there are communities of first-worlders taking retirement, kind of like in Baja California. These people are from the US, Europe, and Japan, who are taking advantage of the wage differentials between countries. \r\n\r\nThere are many poor Thai who are all over the world, and, unfortunately, they comprise a portion of the international sex trade, catering to affluent Westerners and Japanese. They also comprise a portion of people who enter the US as slaves.\r\n\r\nFilipinos are everywhere, especially in the USA (again, people moving to the center of the Empire), but here, they are largely from the professional classes. The poor Filipinos migrate to places like Iraq, to work for American companies, or other parts of Arabia and Africa, to work in the service sector that arises around oil.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 04:50:36","modified":"2006-02-02 04:50:36","fileurl":""},{"id":146064,"heading":"BR","article":"I've called Border Raven a nazi to his face.","author":"Johnny","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 06:00:57","modified":"2006-02-02 06:00:57","fileurl":""},{"id":146066,"heading":"Re: Here's Lookin at Cha","article":"Border Clown,\r\n\r\nI've seen way too much of you up close and personal.\r\n\r\nBut, tell you what.\r\n\r\nGet a shirt that covers your gut and we'll talk.\r\n\r\nNot til then.\r\n\r\nNazi.","author":"Nazi Hunter","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 06:52:21","modified":"2006-02-02 06:52:21","fileurl":""},{"id":146072,"heading":"YES, PEOPLE do HAVE TO COME HERE","article":"First things first. The only "Invaders" around here are Europeans.\r\n\r\nNow then, yes people DO HAVE TO come here.\r\n\r\nYou right wing extremists oppose NAFTA, no?\r\n\r\nThen don't you know, payaso, that millions of Mexican campesinos have been driven from the land, from their small corn farms, in the interests of NAFTA and US agribusiness?\r\n\r\nMexican agriculture is in a profound crisis.\r\n\r\nEstimates suggest that as many as 1 out of 6 Mexicans have been driven from the land, with no way left to support themselves.\r\n\r\nSince NAFTA, prices for agricultural products have plummeted, and the impact is not limited to Mexico. 38,000 small farmers in the US have gone under since NAFTA and 11% of small Canadian farmers as well.\r\n\r\nIn Mexico, millions have migrated as a result, not only to the US, but to urban centers within Mexico as well, where they seek out jobs that pay next to nothing in factories (maquiladoras) owned by foreign, often US, interests.\r\n\r\nDon't you know that thousands have been killed in struggle over land by death squads?\r\n\r\nAll so that people in the US can grow obese, right along with the profits of US agribusiness.\r\n\r\nIn other words, Border Clown, the US has profited enormously from the virtual destruction of Mexican agriculture. \r\n\r\nYou are literally eating the Mexican people alive.\r\n\r\nAnd you have the nerve to complain when they come here to escape your knife and fork.\r\n\r\nBy the way, Los Cristeros are fascists, and have always represented the most backward elements of Mexican culture. You are a fool to refer Mexican people to them, since they are widely regarded as the very scourge of the country, and have been so considered since the time of the Revolution.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nTHEY HAVE TO? Prove it.\r\nby Border Raven Tuesday, Jan. 31, 2006 at 2:26 PM\r\n\r\nIf they have to come, then they wouldn't be returning home freely, to see their families. They wouldn't be sending money home to build their homes, in the towns they fled. They would stay here.\r\n\r\nBesides, by your statement, I infer the invaders, have had to come here, since they began, so many years ago. They WANT TO come here. They come voluntarily, well mostly, except the children kidnapped into prostitution to service the farm workers, at $30 for 5 minutes.\r\n\r\nloscristeros.org\r\n\r\nBR ","author":"Morales","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 08:13:02","modified":"2006-02-02 08:13:02","fileurl":""},{"id":146082,"heading":"Nazi Hunter","article":"Thanks for pointing out that I need to lose some weight, let me know, when you grow some balls.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 09:28:59","modified":"2006-02-02 09:28:59","fileurl":""},{"id":146088,"heading":"Fair Enough","article":"BR, \r\n\r\nI am ashamed of having said that to you, and will not repeat any personal insults.\r\n\r\nNH","author":"Nazi Hunter","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 11:52:54","modified":"2006-02-02 11:52:54","fileurl":""},{"id":146121,"heading":"Fair Enough!","article":"\r\nIt's not like I am not aware of my flaws, but we need to look inside ourselves.\r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 18:44:33","modified":"2006-02-02 18:44:33","fileurl":""},{"id":146284,"heading":"Right","article":"Look inside ourselves, just like you SOS thugs do in the gallery of goons, hmmm?\r\n\r\nBorder Raven said:\r\n\r\n"It's not like I am not aware of my flaws, but we need to look inside ourselves."\r\n\r\n","author":"Eduardo","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 09:26:13","modified":"2006-02-04 09:26:13","fileurl":""},{"id":146308,"heading":"Look Inside Urself","article":"U are lying to urself. Goon is like "Gook" from Viet Nam. It's just like the n-word.\r\n\r\nU give urself away when you say "Mexifreak." Just like I would if I said "WhiteyFreak." when referring to SOS members.\r\n\r\nPlus I have seen a lot of the people u put on the "goon "page. U always pick the worst possible pictures and make even decent looking friendly people look ugly, or mean, just like the Nazis did with pictures of "long nosed money grubbing Jews."\r\n\r\nNo one is stupid enough to believe the lies you are telling. U're just a nasty hypocrite.\r\n\r\n","author":"Eduardo","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 20:08:04","modified":"2006-02-04 20:08:04","fileurl":""},{"id":146310,"heading":"There will be NO SOS Gallery","article":"BR : "If you have a gallery of SOS\/MM members, please share it, if not start one. "\r\n\r\nThere will be NO indymedia gallery of SOS\/MM members. There is no reason for it. Sure, information has been compiled along with photographs of the SOS\/MM, including you Gerry (Border Raven). \r\n\r\nBut the so-called Gallery of Goons is nothing more than joke for us. Half the names are wrong and you guys don't even have the other half and you can't even figure out the simplest of affiliations. \r\n\r\nThe "Gallery of Goons" is just you guys trying to show each other how clever you are. But, you're not. You're a bunch of naive, political punks. \r\n\r\nBesides, a gallery of SOS\/MM would just lead to more of you guys invading the message board here. Meanwhile, there is no chance at rebuttal on the SOS board. That is fine. \r\n\r\nIf you want me to Gerry, I'll mail you a picture of yourself. ","author":"Elite Goon","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 20:28:17","modified":"2006-02-04 20:28:17","fileurl":""},{"id":146320,"heading":"Childish","article":"SOS is childish having a gallery of goons. They are showing some of there best class and intelligent there. Who started it Chris Spelman aka Last Great Asshole? and it falls thru the ranks too like Joe Turner starting to have his own goons website. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-05 00:00:10","modified":"2006-02-05 00:00:10","fileurl":""},{"id":146324,"heading":"Elite Goon","article":"If you wouldn't mind, mail all you want.\r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-05 01:23:51","modified":"2006-02-05 01:23:51","fileurl":""},{"id":146359,"heading":"U are lying to urself","article":""Goon is like "Gook" from Viet Nam. It's just like the n-word."\r\n\r\nWebster's Dictionary:\r\n\r\nMain Entry: goon \r\nPronunciation: 'g\u00fcnFunction: nounEtymology: probably short for English dialect gooney (simpleton)\r\n1 : a stupid person \r\n2 : a man hired to terrorize or eliminate opponents\r\n\r\n"Goon" fits, and considering we could have used a long list of devisive or racist terms, be thankful, we used "goon".\r\n\r\nWhy is is all of a sudden, that I am called a Nazi, xenophobic, white-supremacist, racist, etc.?\r\n\r\nI don't own a nazi flag or a swatztika.\r\nI don't fear immigrants or different peoples-- well I don't fear law-abiding legal immigrants -- I have traveled to foreign countries, and walked the back streets, without fear.\r\nI promote equal rights, not racist-Mexican rights.\r\n\r\nWhen have I used "Mexifreak"? \r\n\r\nIt may be part of the SOS website, but I am not the webmaster. Besides, anyway to insult the "angelic" government of that country to the south, and show it for the evil it is, is ok with me.\r\n\r\nI am sorry for the quality of the pictures in the Goons Gallery. I mean we get thousands of submissions in and we must spend hours, sitting around the table, drinking beers and eating pizzas, as we toss the pictures to each other, but we really don't have much to work with. Personally, I'll admit, I don't always shave, but at least I'll shower and shampoo my hair, before I go to a rally. Do you think you could do us a favor? We don't have a lot of film\/memory, for our cameras, but it would be extremely appreciated, if you could ask Leslie to stand, in the back and get some cute chicks up front, to hold signs. Thanks \r\n\r\nOK, now this statement disturbs me, "long nosed money grubbing Jews". First a long-nose, is a genetic trait. Second, being frugal or pinching pennies, is good for the future. It is a matter of Play now or Play later. WE should save and invest for the future. You should hire a Jewish Financial Advisor.\r\n\r\nNow you are calling me a liar? \r\nWhat lies have I told? \r\nAll I ask is that you face the truth, not ignore it.\r\n\r\nAnd you call me a "nasty hypocrite"? Explain please:\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-05 04:56:53","modified":"2013-11-11 00:38:09","fileurl":""},{"id":146405,"heading":"BR + "Mexifreaks"","article":"They hid the post where u used the word "Mexifreak." SO don't act innocent on me, racist.\r\n\r\nSee 4 urself.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/la.indymedia.org\/news\/hidden.php?id=145258#146290\r\n\r\nYou keep insulting other individuals while acting so sensitive urself .\r\n\r\nU make me sick, u hypocrite.\r\n\r\n","author":"Eduardo","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-05 14:22:21","modified":"2006-02-05 14:22:21","fileurl":""},{"id":146435,"heading":"Mexifreaks?","article":"Eduardo, grow a brain. My use of the term "Mexifreaks", in the post you referenced, was quoted form the SOS website. I didn't personally use the term to refer to anyone or a group of persons.\r\n\r\nWhat is ur education level?\r\n\r\nBack to school with you.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-06 03:43:18","modified":"2006-02-06 03:43:18","fileurl":""},{"id":146474,"heading":"A Lesson for Border Raven","article":"One thing I learned in school, sick man, is that when you disagree with something you quote, or want to point to its eror as that of the author, and not yours, you write (sic).\r\n\r\nThe words were yours, you approved them, you reposted them, you made no apology for them.\r\n\r\nIt's too late to change your tune now, sick guy.","author":"Eduardo","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-06 12:28:41","modified":"2006-02-06 12:28:41","fileurl":""},{"id":146481,"heading":"Eduardo","article":"Grow up!\r\n\r\nIn the mean time, please go to any elementary school, 8:00 am tomorrow, and get a basic education. Tell them I sent you. I'll pay my taxes, so you can get a free education.\r\n\r\nPeople quote stuff all the time, and make no disclaimer of agreement or otherwise. We quote as reference. Now, I don't know what school you went to, but I graduated in 1972, and could care less about your silly F***ing rules of procedure.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-06 14:36:27","modified":"2006-02-06 14:36:27","fileurl":""},{"id":146506,"heading":"Sick Man","article":"Just look at you. You whine about someone talking trash about how fat you are, then attack other people based on whether or not you like their appearance.\r\n\r\nYou're a pitiful evil little thug, and a racist and a Nazi.","author":"Eduardo","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-06 23:19:44","modified":"2006-02-06 23:19:44","fileurl":""},{"id":146509,"heading":"Eduardo , what do you wan to be when you grow up?","article":"You epitomize the word "loser".\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-06 23:54:21","modified":"2006-02-06 23:54:21","fileurl":""},{"id":146511,"heading":"yuk yuk","article":"You're:\r\ncrazy\r\n[a] looser\r\nstupid\r\nbald\r\nfat\r\nugly\r\ndumb\r\nold\r\nor any of the above and their empty and limited foolishness that pass for 3rd grade counters\r\nWho needs to grow up?\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"last defense","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-07 00:01:56","modified":"2006-02-07 00:01:56","fileurl":""},{"id":146521,"heading":"last defense another loser","article":"Who wants to be next?\r\n\r\nCome forth children.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-07 01:01:50","modified":"2006-02-07 01:01:50","fileurl":""},{"id":146532,"heading":"reply","article":"On the subject of attacking good people, Barbara Coe and others go on and on about people coming here illegally and raping people. When speaking generally, there are GOOD people and BAD people in all countries and populations. Yes some who are here against immigration laws are of a bad nature. But so are some American citizens. I wish for those here to take note of the "Perverted Justice" stories going on at MSNBC and KFI 640. Plenty of American citizen men(many of them white, if anyone is looking at that) who are would be sex offenders. You can look towards the border, but you can also look on the internet and right here for all the sex offenders you can handle. I know better than to scapegoat ALL who are here against immigration laws as sex offenders. Sex offence is not an immigration issue. It's an issue all in its own, whether the offender is legally here or not. Plenty of "savages" and "barbarians" who were born and raised right here in the USA if Barbara Coe is really concerned about that.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":145258,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-07 05:40:01","modified":"2006-02-07 05:40:01","fileurl":""}]}