{"article":{"id":145169,"heading":"SOS in Burbank","author":"Next Move","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:43","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:37:43","article":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><body><p>SOS spent a short week of hard and fast Internet organizing and used the unchallenged nightly local media exposure to their advantage.  Earlier in the week Don Silva sent out an impassioned plea to his e-mail lists in which he stated, &ldquo;I am asking, basically pleading with as many of you as possible to show up this Saturday.&rdquo;  Silva&rsquo;s begging paid off &ndash; SOS drew their biggest crowd ever, approximately 75.   <br><br> The opposition consisting of several local groups and individuals drew about 100.  Two prominent groups there today were the ANSWER Coalition and the Mexica-Movement.  One report on the Save Our State website placed the numbers at around 100 SOS to 150 anti-SOS. <br><br> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=7186&amp;st=40\">http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=7186&amp;st=40<\/a> <br><br> About an hour into the event the Mexica-Movement remained at their location in front of the day labor center and many of the &ldquo;left&rdquo; activists including ANSWER moved across the street.  SOS remained where they started, on the sidewalk in front of Home Depot. <br><br> Burbank police had a steady but relatively small presence but managed to keep the opposing sides apart for most of the day.  The exception was an incident that occurred at the end of the event when SOS was being shuttled to their vehicles.  Little by little SOS members were led 2-by-2 (like school children being taken by their teacher to the lavatory) across the street and down an alley to a secret, probably pre-planned, exit location.   <br><br> Toward the end of the exit parade Joe Turner, the SOS &ldquo;man-in-charge&rdquo; and a few other SOSers were left waiting for their rides.  At that point the &ldquo;left&rdquo; contingent of the counter-protest, spearheaded by members from ANSWER crossed the street and surrounded Turner.  The Mexica-Movement stayed at their location in front of the day worker center.   <br><br> Shouting him down, the activists removed the school-boy, ear-to-ear grin from his face for the first time all day leaving him frustrated and standing in the middle of the street waiting for his ride, who happened to be Don Silva who pulled up about 10 minutes later in his green taxi.  Shuttled away no doubt to a celebratory lunch at a local Mexican restaurant more than likely staffed by a kitchen full of undocumented workers. <br><br> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=7186&amp;st=80\">http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=7186&amp;st=80<\/a> <br><br> The incident at the end of the protest was one of the more bizarre incidents to take place at an SOS event and it ranks right up there to Joe Turner&rsquo;s arrest 10 minutes in to the 12-7-05 Glendale event, the Nazis in Laguna Beach pulling out their flags and then being chased to their cars by the counter protestors and the one SOSer near tears at the beginning of the 6-18-05 Alhambra event (you know who you are).   <br><br> One can only wonder what will happen next.   <br><br> The day was also highlighted by the appearance of a few Latino SOS members who were pushed to the front and given access to a bullhorn, at times assisted by Turner himself.  Counter-protesters on the other side of the street were heard calling these individuals &ldquo;house pets&rdquo;.   <br><br> Apparently two of these men are available for hire or rent as SOS member LAPhil posted that he has contact information for these men.   <br><br> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=7186&amp;st=80\">http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=7186&amp;st=80<\/a> <br><br> Throughout the day SOS members took turns on the bullhorn, each one making their &ldquo;statement&rdquo; which they believe will once and for all make the counter-protestors shut up and go away.  It never works though because, as should be obvious in such a noisy environment, it&rsquo;s really impossible to hear a word they are saying.   <br><br>  <br>  <br> <\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","summary":"The xenophobic media darlings, Save Our State made their scheduled appearance in Burbank to protest the opening of a Day Labor\/Temporary Worker Center adjacent to the new Home Depot.  ","numcomment":106,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_011.jpg","filesize":"74.6 kibibytes","article_url":"\/news\/2006\/01\/145169.php","image":{"original":"\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_011.jpg","small":"\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_011.jpgthumb.jpg","medium":"\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_011.jpgmid.jpg"}},"attachments":[{"id":145171,"heading":".","article":"","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_029.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_029.jpg"}},{"id":145172,"heading":".","article":"","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_004.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_004.jpg"}},{"id":145173,"heading":".","article":"","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_026.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_026.jpg"}},{"id":145174,"heading":".","article":"","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2006-01-29 19:58:20","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_012.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_012.jpg"}},{"id":145175,"heading":".","article":"","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_090.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_090.jpg"}},{"id":145176,"heading":".","article":"","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_078.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_078.jpg"}},{"id":145177,"heading":".","article":"","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_047.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_047.jpg"}},{"id":145178,"heading":".","article":"","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","modified":"2006-01-23 05:58:25","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_093.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/burbank_1-21-06_093.jpg"}}],"comments":[{"id":145198,"heading":"Red, white and blue","article":"It's best to describle the SOS protest as &quot;Racist wrap in red, white and blue.&quot;","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-23 15:11:21","modified":"2006-01-23 15:11:21","fileurl":""},{"id":145199,"heading":"Next Move","article":"r u turning into Jammer CC covering things as in covering donnie plates?","author":"EL Chivo","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-23 15:13:37","modified":"2006-01-23 15:13:37","fileurl":""},{"id":145200,"heading":"Donnie","article":"please call don silvia up and give him a false locations of a pick up!","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-23 15:46:47","modified":"2006-01-23 15:46:47","fileurl":""},{"id":145202,"heading":"SAVEOURSTATE KICKED MEXICA'S AZZ BIGTIME!","article":"Mexica! Listen up!\r\n\r\nMore and more Americans are checking this issue out!\r\n\r\nAmericans of all races and Nationalities are joing Saveourstate!\r\n\r\n You embarrass yourselves calling American Hispanics vendidos!\r\n\r\n               YOUR STUPID AZTEC DANCERS EMBARRASS THEMSELVES WITH THEIR STUPID MEXICAN COLORS.\r\nGO BACK TO MEXICO WITH YOUR ILLEGAL ALIENS.\r\nWE ARE WINNING THIS WAR!","author":"Danny","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-23 16:25:14","modified":"2006-01-23 16:25:14","fileurl":""},{"id":145220,"heading":"Ignorant, Illiterate SOS","article":"Hijole! You ever noticed how the SOS uses language?\r\n\r\nWe used to be La Raza.\r\nThen we were MeChA\r\nThen the Brown Berets\r\nThen the &quot;goons&quot;\r\nNow, we're the Mexicas.\r\n\r\nThey seem to have no idea that we're a Movement.\r\n\r\nA movement comprised of many different groups.\r\n\r\nYou know what the problem is though really?\r\n\r\nWe all LOOK ALIKE.\r\n\r\nRight?\r\n","author":"Hijole","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-23 22:01:00","modified":"2006-01-23 22:01:00","fileurl":""},{"id":145221,"heading":"I thougth SOS was defeated? Done?","article":"History? Over with?","author":"Moreleigh","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-23 22:01:19","modified":"2006-01-23 22:01:19","fileurl":""},{"id":145231,"heading":"Gracias","article":"Thanks for the report.  I knew I couldn't trust Fox's, even if I had seen it.  Wisht I coulda been there.  Maybe nextime.\r\nRockero420","author":"Rockero420","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-23 23:44:33","modified":"2006-01-23 23:44:33","fileurl":""},{"id":145232,"heading":"We are the Mexica","article":"Yes, SOS has realized we are ONE PEOPLE.\r\nWe are the Mexica. (the original, Indigenous way we say 'Mexican&quot;)\r\n\r\nBut we don't stop there:\r\nwe want to include ALL Indigenous peoples of this continent as one Nican Tlaca nation without falsely-imposed European borders on us.\r\n\r\nLou Dobbs and Pat Buchanan have manufactured a lexicon for the SOS by falsely labling us as  &quot;La Raza&quot; and &quot;Mecha.&quot; if Lou Dobbs is smart, he'll continue to promote that straw man Mecha argument, and avoid giving any airtime to the Mexica Movement. That message would be too damaging for his European audience to hear. \r\n\r\nBased upon the APB that SOS sent out (word pun nonwithstanding), I was hoping they would have marshalled way more people than actually showed up for them.\r\n\r\nOne glaring disparity between the two groups was the generational gap. Their side was conspicuously aged and representative of a by-gone era, fully in the death throes of nostalgia for the &quot;good ol days.&quot;\r\n\r\nOur side, by contrast, is youthful, vigorous, and on the march. Justice is on our side. The facts about this being our continent are on our side.\r\n\r\nAnd oh yeah, that &quot;demographic tidal wave&quot; thing on the horizon is kind of gonna make a big difference, too.\r\n\r\nThe Mexica Movement was besieged by media interviews at this protest. Our message was delivered loud and clear.\r\n\r\nWe are calling for Europeans to go back to Europe.\r\nBut we want the racist Europeans to go first, and ASAP. They would be so much happier in Europe among their own people, where they wouldn't have to face us anymore. (They can even call themselves &quot;Americans&quot; in Europe, and wave their flags, too!)\r\n\r\nBut we fully understand that there are DECENT Europeans on our continent, some with a strong sense of justice, willing to listen to the facts. Some are willing to act on behalf of what is right and just. \r\n\r\nWith those decent Europeans, we understand they will need a generation or two to sort out how they will return to their European homeland.\r\n\r\nWe understand of course, that all of this will take place outside the scope of our present lifetimes. But without a doubt, our future generations will take the baton from us and make it happen.\r\n\r\nThe bottom line of all this is:\r\njust as the Jews can argue that they wanted their land back after 2,000 years,\r\nwe Nican Tlaca are demanding control of our lands back after only 500 years.\r\n\r\n \r\n","author":"Manuel A.","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-23 23:59:44","modified":"2006-01-23 23:59:44","fileurl":""},{"id":145240,"heading":"My only comment to  you liars","article":"Since you all just can not tell the complete truth, ever, I only have one brief statement to your elite goons, Leslie, Nextmoron, El Chivers, and whomever else I am forgettng.\r\n\r\nNumbers, always numbers ! This is your usual first lie. Even when we outnumber you for once, you still lie. \r\n\r\nReal numbers. I know you can count to 100, so I know  you lie.\r\n\r\n105 = good guys\r\n\r\n75 = evil globalists pawns (thats you, btw)\r\n\r\nAlso, you can call me anytime you want @ 818 601 8407. I am not afraid of any of you in the least, nor is my wife that you think  you can intimidate me with by finding out her name and posting it here. Evil jacktards.\r\n\r\nFeel free to post my Taxi, my name, (I know not yours, but you sure have ours on your minds, and signs.) and any other information that  you want to post to make internet threats. \r\n\r\nWe just do not care what you think of us, now, or ever. I doubt if you will ever get it straight.. However, the 5 or so others that read the outright lies that next goon, cream and chives, and Leslie publish as 'journalism', deserve the truth...which you will NEVER give them.\r\n\r\nAgain, thank you for your support ! Util we use  you next time, I remain - LL Don Silva...goons delight, and out of sight!","author":"Don Silva","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 00:46:56","modified":"2006-01-24 00:46:56","fileurl":""},{"id":145243,"heading":"donnie","article":"in the SOS thread one of your guys said the counter still outnumber you guys like 150 counter to 100 soser. your the liar donnie. also, you said a couple months ago that numbers dont count. you are just a media whore and a lapdog to the corporation. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 01:33:41","modified":"2006-01-24 01:33:41","fileurl":""},{"id":145254,"heading":"Its laughable but sad","article":"Its amazing to see this openly traitorous, seditious and separatist talk from these Mexica fools.  By all means, please go ahead and unite and try and drive out the &quot;European invader&quot;.  I cannot wait to see you try and then watch with sour amusement as military tanks drive over your bodies.\r\n\r\nAre you as stupid as you portray yourselves?  You live in the most free and democratic nation on earth and what do you do?  You spread hate and lies and spout sediitious ideologies.  That's perfectly fine with me.  I just feel bad for the good Latinos and other legal immigrants to this country who get grouped into your abyss of imminent self-destruction.\r\n\r\nA cousin of mine works for the Dept of Homeland Security and she tells me that they are completely aware of this growing Mexican separatist movement and that its NOT being taken as a joke.  That's bad news for you since this out of control Bush adminstration is more than happy to start wire tapping you morons and before too long you might find yourselves in the same position as the Black Panthers or early Chicano Brown Beret assholes who were basically dismantled by the FBI in the early 70s.  So keep it up because the more you show your hate and intolerance the sooner you'll finish digging your own graves.\r\n\r\nYes, America is on to you.  My guess is your fucked and for what?  Because being an American just was't good enough or was it just that your hatred of White people moves your toward your misguided crusade?","author":"Race War?","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 03:35:41","modified":"2006-01-24 03:35:41","fileurl":""},{"id":145257,"heading":"Lies Donnie?","article":"Aside from the numbers issue which you always say doesn't matter anyway, what in the story was a lie??  I think just seeing somebody with another perspective of things just makes you guys a little uncomfortable and sensitive.\r\n","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 03:54:13","modified":"2006-01-24 03:54:13","fileurl":""},{"id":145263,"heading":"Its laughable but sad?","article":"I generally don't comment about suspected ongoing investigations, but La Voz De Aztlan, should be the alert. I figure Indy Media's, servers are in Perth, AU, putting it in the hands of the NSA and CIA.\r\n\r\nEnough said.\r\n\r\nRESENOMOCRIETRELSNOMOES\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/html","created":"2006-01-24 04:48:39","modified":"2006-01-24 04:48:39","fileurl":""},{"id":145275,"heading":"Manual &quot;We are the Mexica&quot;","article":"&quot;We are the Mexica&quot; reads like a blueprint for a racist lifestyle.\r\n\r\nMexica is:\r\nExclusionary.  Based on skin color.   And promotes hatemongering.\r\n\r\nWhere is the diversity?","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 07:11:57","modified":"2006-01-24 07:11:57","fileurl":""},{"id":145276,"heading":"Numbers","article":"Don, you've worn that damn cat in the hat hat too long - it's affecting your reception. Tune in.\r\n\r\nAny number of people on your own damn forum openly admitted you were outnumbered - and you never contradicted them.\r\n\r\nCall your own people &quot;liars.&quot; Then get back to us.","author":"Clown Fashion Police","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 07:14:18","modified":"2006-01-24 07:14:18","fileurl":""},{"id":145279,"heading":"To SOS?","article":"Thanks for that. \r\n\r\nDo you have ages?\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 07:35:06","modified":"2006-01-24 07:35:06","fileurl":""},{"id":145284,"heading":"Mexica?","article":"Since when did everyone at these things become &quot;Mexica?&quot;\r\n\r\nSomeone is high on stupid.  The Mexica movement is bigger than ever because of these demonstrations.","author":"Huh?","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 07:54:05","modified":"2006-01-24 07:54:05","fileurl":""},{"id":145297,"heading":"Dearest &quot;Minutewoman&quot;...","article":"&quot;We are Mexica&quot; is just who we are.\r\nThe denial of who we are is what has been racist.\r\n\r\nAnd you're right, &quot;Mexica&quot; is &quot;exclusionary&quot; in the same way one wants to &quot;exclude&quot; a burglar from his\/her house.\r\n\r\nIt's &quot;exclusionary&quot; the same way a Jew does not want to abdicate Israel to China.\r\n\r\n\r\nWhere is the diversity you ask?\r\n&quot;Diversity&quot; just means &quot;Whites on top.&quot;\r\nSame thing with the term &quot;multiculturalism.&quot;\r\n\r\n\r\nWe have enough internal diversity among all the varied and fascinating peoples of our continent (not to mention the southern continent).\r\n\r\nDoes one ask a Jew &quot;what about your diversity? Why are you excluding the Italians from owning Israel? After all, the Romans once colonized it.&quot;\r\n\r\nNo, one does not.\r\nNeither should one ask the same of our people and our continent.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Manuel A.","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 10:19:01","modified":"2006-01-24 10:19:01","fileurl":""},{"id":145299,"heading":"Legit q:  Does one ask a Jew &quot;what about your diversity?","article":"> Does one ask a Jew &quot;what about your diversity?&quot;\r\n\r\nI don't know about the religion, but, culturally, Jewish people are very diverse.  There's all kinds, all over the world.  In America, there's a range, including Mexican-American people of Jewish heritage.\r\n\r\nI think the question more often asked is &quot;why do you all argue amongst yourselves so much?&quot;  Another common question is whether so-and-so's spouse is also Jewish, because they outmarry a lot.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 12:29:54","modified":"2006-01-24 12:29:54","fileurl":""},{"id":145309,"heading":"To Manual Y Huh?","article":"WOW - that is some ugly stuff you wrote Manual.  \r\n\r\nThe U.S. is a melting pot.  \r\n\r\nTo be an American - you can be any color, any nationality.  One needs to merely uphold the greatest political document in the history of the world - the U.S. Constitution and obey U.S. law.\r\n\r\nTo Huh? - I have to just say that was an extremely hilarious statement you wrote:\r\n\r\n&quot;Someone is high on stupid.&quot;  This statement can be univerally applied.","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 16:59:50","modified":"2006-01-24 16:59:50","fileurl":""},{"id":145326,"heading":"Also check out portland","article":"http:\/\/portland.indymedia.org\/\r\n\r\nThere were also anti-Nazi pickets and protests in other parts of the country.  Just like here in California, the white supremacists were outnumbered and out witted every step of the way.\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 21:48:33","modified":"2006-01-24 21:48:33","fileurl":""},{"id":145329,"heading":"I'm insulted.  Insulted!","article":"> your elite goons, Leslie, Nextmoron, El Chivers, \r\n> and whomever else I am forgettng. \r\n\r\nGods damn it, who do I have to pay around here to get recognized as one of the elite goons?  What?  I don't qualify because I wear a white face?  Is that it, Don?  I mean come on!  I'm at _LEAST_ as evil as Leslie, and at _LEAST_ a &quot;race traitor&quot; deserving of being on your short memory list, aren't I?\r\n\r\nI mean sweet baby Jesus, here I go through all the trouble of creating a web site to expose these scumbags, and I go through all the trouble of infiltraiting your various web site's discussion forums using all kinds of fake names so I can divide and fracture everything you clowns stand for, and I don't even make it on your list?\r\n\r\nThat's insulting.  <laugh>  And for fucking out loud, I see that 1people1planet didn't make your list, either.  Shouldn't _he_ be at the top of your list?  I mean if there's a Darth Vader amoing your enemies, to be sure it's 1people1planet.  He's got to be annoyed too, I'd think.\r\n\r\nOh, and johnk pays us all to post here, don't you think&quot;  Shouldn't he be on your list, too?  He should since he's always the voice of reason, always calmly rational and accurate -- must piss you and your fellows off into pants-shitting frustration, doesn't he?  He should be on your list.\r\n\r\n<smile> Come on, Don.  Unclench those teeth and _try_ to smile for once in your sick, disgusting life.  There's so much more to life than being afraid of brown skin and people who worship Satan.  Unclench those teeth, climb down from that tree, and come _join_ your intellectual and moral superiors in that great adventure called Life.  Once you cast aside your pretend enemies, maybe then you can let the healing begin.\r\n\r\nEmail me for help if you need it.  I'll be there for you when it's time.\r\n\r\nMy opinions only and only my opinions.\r\n\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rcie","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 22:36:19","modified":"2006-01-24 22:36:19","fileurl":""},{"id":145331,"heading":"Oh, just a correction","article":"Were you guys there? One of you certainly does not know what is up. I was not in the cat in the hat hat Saturday. That is me in the photo at the top of this 'article'.\r\n\r\nAgain, were you there? How about you, next groove ? All you have to do it count....1 2 3 , oh forget it, one million !\r\n\r\nHonestly, numbers really do matter...that would be the total # of us, the goons, PD, reporters, HD cronies, and so forth.\r\n\r\nI just wanted you to know that the one time that we do outnumber you, that we would not just sit back and not offer a correction. The real reason ? We do not like lies, and we do NOT lie about our #'s...ever.","author":"Don Silva","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-24 22:48:49","modified":"2006-01-24 22:48:49","fileurl":""},{"id":145336,"heading":"Donnie","article":"If I wasn't there how would I have been able to get that swell picture of your taxi?","author":"Next Move","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 00:11:52","modified":"2006-01-25 00:11:52","fileurl":""},{"id":145351,"heading":"Oh, is that you, Next Move?","article":"You're the thin dude with the pony tail?\r\n\r\n","author":"TheWatchdog","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 03:39:46","modified":"2006-01-25 03:39:46","fileurl":""},{"id":145353,"heading":"Well next groove, than you sure can not count !","article":"Or, did not bother to, or are a liar, like I am thinking is more likely.\r\n\r\nHere we go with the lame intimidation bit with my wife. Oh, and now the taxi. It has never worked, and never will....lol. Why would I ever be afraid of a guy that does not even come up and say a hello at the protests ??? I am there, and you know me. I give my #, and no one calls. Oh, one did, but it was someone that posts on our board.\r\n\r\nWould you like my wife's phone # as well ? lol, if you will not call me, I am sure you would not have the umph to call a woman since that is more intimidating for a guy...usually.\r\n\r\nThe jig is up, and you know that you can not stop us. Nothing you have done, or can do has or will stop us. We continue to achieve our goals one after the next, and you all just ride out coat tails, hoping that you can eat our media crumbs. \r\n\r\nAfter we are finished with the illegal immigration issue, whichever way it ends up going, I just wonder if you all will follow us to our next issue...it would be very hard since it is something that you all have NO concern about.","author":"Don Silva","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 04:46:43","modified":"2006-01-25 04:46:43","fileurl":""},{"id":145367,"heading":"Whatever, Payaso","article":"D. Silva wrote\r\n\r\n&quot;Well next groove, than you sure can not count !&quot;\r\n\r\nWhatever, ese, you cannot spell.\r\n\r\nOne stupid comeback deserves another, no?","author":"Morales","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 08:59:13","modified":"2006-01-25 08:59:13","fileurl":""},{"id":145368,"heading":"Melting pot?","article":"The U.S. is a &quot;melting pot,&quot;\r\nand we are melted while Europeans stand otside the pot determining the temperature of the flames.\r\n\r\n\r\nThe &quot;U.S.&quot; is more of a &quot;smelting pot,&quot;\r\nfull of molten hot death which burns away anything which is Indigenous.\r\n\r\n\r\nAgain, the facts:\r\n\r\n- This continent is ours.\r\n\r\n- Europeans came here uninvited, without passports, without green cards, and behaved like murdering, raping burglars.\r\n\r\n\r\n- Europeans have practiced 5 centuries of racist hate against Indigenous people, denying us our culture, our identity, our resources to develop our people's human potential.\r\n\r\n\r\n- Europeans are still trespassing on our continent.\r\nEuropeans, even by your own definitions, are illegals.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Manuel A.","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 09:19:26","modified":"2006-01-25 09:19:26","fileurl":""},{"id":145382,"heading":"Seek Therapy","article":"\r\n  ... &quot;The U.S. is a &quot;melting pot,&quot; and we are melted while Europeans stand otside the pot determining the temperature of the flames.&quot; ... \r\n\r\nYup, and we'll turn up the heat, as high as needed, until you are melted, into the purity, of Americanism.\r\n\r\n  ... &quot;The &quot;U.S.&quot; is more of a &quot;smelting pot,&quot; full of molten hot death which burns away anything which is Indigenous.&quot;  ...\r\n\r\nThat's the idea, no lumps, just smooth flowing metal to be molded, into the metal of America.\r\n \r\n&quot; This continent is ours.&quot;\r\n\r\n Ours!\r\n\r\n&quot;Europeans came here uninvited, without passports, without green cards, and behaved like murdering, raping burglars.&quot;\r\n\r\n1. The early explorers accidently stumbled upon this continent, and later travelers brought knowledge and inventions. It was bound to happen, as transportation methods were improved. Who knows, it could have been in reverse.\r\n\r\n2. Passports and green cards were not invented , that early. So, you sound stupid and ignorant mentioning it.\r\n\r\n3. I'm sure crimes were mutual, and crimes continue.\r\n\r\n   ... &quot;Europeans have practiced 5 centuries of racist hate against Indigenous people, denying us our culture, our identity, our resources to develop our people's human potential.&quot; ... \r\n\r\nManuel, go visit the reservations, and play the latest evolution in native culture, slot-machines, and BINGO.\r\n\r\n  ... &quot;Europeans are still trespassing on our continent. \r\nEuropeans, even by your own definitions, are illegals.&quot;  ...\r\n\r\nYou are delusional, aren't you?  Besides Europeans, aren't the only people comming the this continent.\r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n \r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 13:00:02","modified":"2006-01-25 13:00:02","fileurl":""},{"id":145385,"heading":"BR - JUSTIFYING GENOCIDE","article":"REPLY TO Seek Therapy by Border Raven Tuesday\r\n\r\n\r\nM... &quot;The U.S. is a &quot;melting pot,&quot; and we are melted while Europeans stand otside the pot determining the temperature of the flames.&quot; ...\r\n\r\nBR Yup, and we'll turn up the heat, as high as needed, until you are melted, into the purity, of Americanism.\r\n\r\nTHERE'S THE CENTRAL BR THEME AGAIN - WHITE PURITY.\r\n\r\nM... &quot;The &quot;U.S.&quot; is more of a &quot;smelting pot,&quot; full of molten hot death which burns away anything which is Indigenous.&quot; ...\r\n\r\nBR That's the idea, no lumps, just smooth flowing metal to be molded, into the metal of America.\r\n\r\nAND THAT'S BR'S ADMISSION OF THE WILL TO COMMIT GENOCIDE\r\n\r\nM &quot; This continent is ours.&quot;\r\n\r\nBR Ours!\r\n\r\nHERE'S BR'S CLAIM THAT MIGHT MAKES RIGHT\r\n\r\nM &quot;Europeans came here uninvited, without passports, without green cards, and behaved like murdering, raping burglars.&quot;\r\n\r\nBR 1. The early explorers accidently stumbled upon this continent, and later travelers brought knowledge and inventions. It was bound to happen, as transportation methods were improved. Who knows, it could have been in reverse.\r\n\r\nHERE'S THE WILLFUL DISTORTION OF HISTORY - THE WHITE COLONIAL SETLER &quot;PILGRIMS&quot; DIDN'T &quot;STUMBLE&quot; ONTO ANYTHING - THEY CAME A CENTURY AFTER COLUMBUS.\r\n\r\nBR 2. Passports and green cards were not invented , that early. So, you sound stupid and ignorant mentioning it.\r\n\r\nHERE'S BR'S BASIC IGNORANCE - WHOLE SYSTEMS OF CATEGORING PEOPLE BY BLLOD QUANTUM AND DENYING THEM HUMAN RIGHTS WERE IN PLACE BY 1600.\r\n\r\nBR IGNORES THE CENTRAL POINT - THAT THE WHITE COLONIAL SETTLERS WERE NOTHING BUT MURDERING THIEVES.\r\n\r\nBR 3. I'm sure crimes were mutual, and crimes continue.\r\n\r\nHRERE'S THE CLASSIC BR DENAIL OF GENOCIDE - HE DARES COMPARE THE DEATHS OF 100 MILLION NATIVES AT THE HANDS OF THE SETTLERS\/ CONQUERORS TO A MATTER OF PETTY CRIME.\r\n\r\nM ... &quot;Europeans have practiced 5 centuries of racist hate against Indigenous people, denying us our culture, our identity, our resources to develop our people's human potential.&quot; ...\r\n\r\nBR Manuel, go visit the reservations, and play the latest evolution in native culture, slot-machines, and BINGO.\r\n\r\nHERE'S BR'S REDUCTION OF THE MODERN NATIVE TO A STEREOTYPE. THE LIFE EXPECTANCY OF A NATIVE BORN ON A REZ IS forty fucking years, ASSHOLE.\r\n\r\nM ... &quot;Europeans are still trespassing on our continent.\r\nEuropeans, even by your own definitions, are illegals.&quot; ...\r\n\r\nBR You are delusional, aren't you? Besides Europeans, aren't the only people comming the this continent. \r\n\r\nALWAYS THE SAME SONG AND DANCE - HERE BR EQUATES MASS MUDERERS LAND THIEVES, CULTURE DESTROYERS, AND VILLAGE BURNERS WITH SOMEONE WHO ARRIVED A FEW YEARS AG.","author":"Nazi Hunter","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 14:03:02","modified":"2006-01-25 14:03:02","fileurl":""},{"id":145387,"heading":"Here's Border Raven aka Border Blob","article":"BR: Wearing his sunday's best, Border Blob, can you wear a tighter shirt? Is that a jelly roll suit from the navy? ","author":"Maru","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-25 15:21:41","modified":"2006-01-25 15:21:41","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/sundaysbest_.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/sundaysbest_.jpg"}},{"id":145395,"heading":"to SOS","article":"Maru and El Chivo are a married couple.","author":"Hacking Indymedia","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 16:49:05","modified":"2006-01-25 16:49:05","fileurl":""},{"id":145400,"heading":"Achieving our goals.  LOL!","article":"> We continue to achieve our goals \r\n\r\n<smile> Yeah.  We noticed.  <giggle>\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 17:42:37","modified":"2006-01-25 17:42:37","fileurl":""},{"id":145401,"heading":"BR","article":"Border Raven thinks this country is what is taught in the history books.  He believes the lies.  FYI Border Raven this country is never going to be what you want it to be.  ","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 17:43:15","modified":"2006-01-25 17:43:15","fileurl":""},{"id":145402,"heading":"The next issue?","article":"> I just wonder if you all will follow us to our next \r\n> issue...it would be very hard since it is something \r\n> that you all have NO concern about.\r\n\r\nGolly, this sounds sinister.  What's the next issue after you get rid of all the Mexicans?  Start on the blacks?\r\n\r\nMy opinions only and only my opinions.\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 17:44:53","modified":"2006-01-25 17:44:53","fileurl":""},{"id":145425,"heading":"Manual Melting\/Smelting\/Inventing","article":"America welcomes all people of the world - just enter legally.\r\n\r\nYet  you hate this co-mingling.    I call it a melting pot - you call it a smelting pot and Border Raven says the heat is turned up so we all blend together.\r\n\r\nManual: Do you drive a car or ride a bus?\r\n\r\nDo you use a washing machine?\r\n\r\nWatch TV, listen to a radio, use a flashlight?  Use a match, a pencil, toothpaste.\r\n\r\nIf so, these are non-Indigenous people inventions.  And if you use any of them, you are choosing to be non-Indigenous.\r\n\r\nYou seek to convert  the United States to your Indigenous ways.\r\n\r\nBut there are areas all over the world where Indigenous peoples live - the rain forest for example.\r\n\r\nWhy don't you move to the rain forest?  You could certainly meet and live with Indigenous people there and throw off  all the shackles of the U.S.  \r\n\r\nYou could be happy in the rain forest instead of frustrated in the United States.  \r\n\r\nI love the United States - I love the melting pot - I love our US Constitution - so I hope you won't tell me to move to Europe.  \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 22:22:40","modified":"2006-01-25 22:22:40","fileurl":""},{"id":145432,"heading":"Where do we go from here?","article":"&quot;Golly, this sounds sinister. What's the next issue after you get rid of all the Mexicans? Start on the blacks? &quot;\r\n--------------------------------------------------------------------------\r\nNo Fred, we start on the deranged. We're just killing two birds with one stone here.\r\n","author":"AyatollahGondola","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 23:15:14","modified":"2006-01-25 23:15:14","fileurl":""},{"id":145435,"heading":"To Fred and Ayatollah\/what's next?","article":"Hi Ayatollah!!!!  Good post there my dear!\r\n\r\nWhat's next?\r\n\r\nFred:\r\nYou are a sardonic fellow.\r\n\r\nATTENTION - we RECRUIT and welcome Hispanic Americans, African Americans, Asian Americans, etc ALL Americans to stand with us.\r\n\r\nThe more diverse our ranks - the stronger we are.\r\n\r\nWe ask but one thing - abide by our laws and our US Constitution.   There is no skin color or race under this system.\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 23:43:20","modified":"2006-01-25 23:43:20","fileurl":""},{"id":145436,"heading":"Hasta La Victoria Siempre","article":"Nunca olv\u00edde que todo es poder y dinero. Ignora el SOS y ve a la escuela para que usted no tendr\u00e1 que manejar un taxi toda su vida y para que usted pueda lograr el poder y el dinero para hacer una diferencia verdadera. Necesitamos a pol\u00edticos, proffesors, abogados y m\u00e9dicos. Deja que el taxi lo manejen los inmigrantees y ve a la escuela.","author":"arriba y adelante","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 23:47:11","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:44","fileurl":""},{"id":145437,"heading":"To Pete Nice and BR","article":"Hey Border Raven!  \r\n\r\nI think Pete Nice is Fred Rice\r\n\r\nThe little kittens lost their mittens\r\n\r\nOld King Cole was a merry ol' soul\r\n\r\nHey diddle diddle the cat in the fiddle\r\n\r\nI think Pete Nice is Fred Rice\r\n\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 23:50:51","modified":"2006-01-25 23:50:51","fileurl":""},{"id":145438,"heading":"Mensaje a arriba y adelante","article":"Cara Arriba:\r\n\r\nPienso que es posible tu eres un gringo o una gringa.\r\n\r\nPorque?  Porque tu espanol es simple.  Come un nino.\r\n\r\nTu mensaje es bueno!  Todo la gente va a escuela.  Por la vida mejor!  Si.\r\n\r\nNo necesita decirme mi espanol no es bueno porque yo lo se!\r\n\r\n","author":"MinuteMujer","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-25 23:58:49","modified":"2006-01-25 23:58:49","fileurl":""},{"id":145439,"heading":"Minutewoman","article":"To Minutewoman: married to the one-minuteman (no doubt)\r\n\r\nFred Rice is an egomaniac who posts his real name to draw attention to himself in order to fill a void left from childhood.  I am Pete Nice and I just don't like you guys!\r\n\r\nMy opinions and only my opinions...","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 00:13:09","modified":"2006-01-26 00:13:09","fileurl":""},{"id":145441,"heading":"Now I know why Don Is Mad","article":"After reading the comments on the report I now know why Don is so angry, scared, and worried about immigrant workers from Latin America; because he's worried about losing his high skilled job as a taxi driver to an immigrant worker. Now it all makes sense. I feel for you Don, but don't get mad at the immigrants, get mad at yourself for not going to school and getting a better job. Why do you get mad at people who just want to work? If you can win this argument without bringing up other issues such as crime or social services then you might have a valid argument and if your argument is the lowering of wages then just remember that there is such a thing as the minimum wage in California which every employer must comply with.","author":"Don is worried","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 00:24:22","modified":"2006-01-26 00:24:22","fileurl":""},{"id":145442,"heading":"The raw truth","article":"My dad, a so called &quot;illegal,&quot; works as a maintenance man and whenever a young chicano joins him at work he tells them the truth he says, &quot;Que estas haciendo aqui? Esto es un trabajo para los inmigrantees. Para los que apenas acaban de llegar! Aqui no vas hacer dinero ni vas a aprender nada! Salte de aqui y vete a estudiar y deja este trabajo para los ilegales como yo!&quot; - There's a lesson to be learned here people!","author":"the son of an illegal","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 00:42:49","modified":"2006-01-26 00:42:49","fileurl":""},{"id":145454,"heading":"thewatchdog identified?","article":"i may or may not have identified the minuteman known as thewatchdog.  on the way to the protest saturday, i saw this really ugly dude standing by his car with a camera, and just had to take a pix.  from what i can gather it was thewatchdog. i believe this guy has been posting derogatory film of the counterprotesters at his two websites.  if you see him, block his view and kindly direct him back to the sos side.  he is supposedly filming a &quot;documentary&quot; on the border issues, but his presentation is biased.  correct me if i'm wrong, but i thought documentaries were supposed to be impartial and educational, thereby allowing the viewer to make up their own minds--not propaganda designed to lead the viewer to a particular conclusion.  if you doubt, read his negative comments on the websites (sos forums also).  don't let him film you, he will only attempt to belittle you. \r\n\r\nhis websites are \r\nwww.immigrationwatchdog.com\r\nwww.workplacewatchdog.org","author":"anahuac warrior","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-26 04:34:19","modified":"2006-01-26 04:34:19","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/thewatchdog.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/thewatchdog.jpg"}},{"id":145455,"heading":"that's him","article":"That guy is Watchdog.","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 04:49:25","modified":"2006-01-26 04:49:25","fileurl":""},{"id":145456,"heading":"cazamigrante","article":"Here's the racist named cazamigrante (Migrant Hunter). . . \r\n\r\nHe says this :\r\n&quot;But if the Chicken Dancers are going to become protest regulars, we should either get a bunch of folks to dress up in El pollo Loco chicken suits, or maybe get a bunch of guys to dress up like Colonel Sanders,&quot; in reference to Danza Cauhtemoc.","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2006-01-26 05:35:52","modified":"2006-01-26 05:35:52","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/glendale_12-10-05_032.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2006\/01\/glendale_12-10-05_032.jpg"}},{"id":145458,"heading":"Nope, sorry Pete you got it wrong","article":"That is NOT cazamigrante. I doubt you guys will ever guess who cazamigrante is","author":"Morleigh","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 06:07:25","modified":"2006-01-26 06:07:25","fileurl":""},{"id":145459,"heading":"morleigh","article":"Morleigh posts under the name Obey on SOS.","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 06:37:18","modified":"2006-01-26 06:37:18","fileurl":""},{"id":145462,"heading":"To Minutewoman on inventions","article":"Minutewoman,\r\n\r\nWhy didn't your European people come to this continent with those inventions already?\r\n\r\n\r\nWhy didn't the pilgrims arrive with computers? electricity? flashlights? cars? MRI machines?\r\n\r\n\r\nWHY DID IT STILL TAKE EUROPEANS 200 YEARS TO INDUSTRIALIZE ON OUR CONTINENT?\r\n\r\n\r\nWhy did it take Europeans 3 centuries to come up with the computer EVEN AFTER arriving here?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nSimple, Europeans used the resources of OUR continent to create these things. It further took Europeans another 200 years to begin industrialization. The profits from African slavery and the stolen croplands of our continent finance the Industrial Revolution.\r\n\r\n\r\nThrough genocide of our people, Europeans were able to &quot;move in&quot; with free land, free gold, free slaves, free crops lands.\r\n\r\nJust like the Beverly Hillbillies.\r\n\r\nWhy didn't Europeans arrive here industrialized?\r\nWhy did it take Europeans 200 years to industrialize even after they came here?\r\n\r\n\r\nThat's 200 years of development that Europeans savagely denied our Indigenous people.\r\n\r\nIn many ways we were more advanced than Europeans, esp in mathematics and astronomy.\r\n\r\nWe even had our own calculator called the Nepohualtzitzin.\r\n\r\nWe probably would've invented the computer in the 1800's if Europeans hadn't savagely denied our development.\r\n\r\nBut we're going to change all that now.\r\nWe're thinking long-term.\r\nBy 200 years from now, our people will be liberated.\r\nAnd who nows, it may even be sooner than that.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Manuel A.","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 07:43:14","modified":"2006-01-26 07:43:14","fileurl":""},{"id":145465,"heading":"Manuel, please STOP!","article":"Manuel,\r\n\r\nIn your post:\r\n&quot;To Minutewoman on inventions\r\nby Manuel A. Tuesday, Jan. 24, 2006 at 11:43 PM&quot;\r\n\r\nYou totally failed to make an intellectual argument in your favor. However, you did a great job of looking foolish, and ignorant.\r\n\r\nSeek therapy, maybe they'll give you some good drugs.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 08:57:40","modified":"2006-01-26 08:57:40","fileurl":""},{"id":145466,"heading":"BR","article":"i didn't hear an &quot;intellectual argument&quot; from you either.  Where is your response BR?  You're a drain on our economy.","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 09:10:22","modified":"2006-01-26 09:10:22","fileurl":""},{"id":145468,"heading":"That damn dog is at it again.","article":"The bastard made another video.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.immigrationwatchdog.com\/media\/SOS\/pretend.mov\r\nhttp:\/\/www.immigrationwatchdog.com\/media\/SOS\/pretend.wmv\r\n","author":"SOS","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 09:27:28","modified":"2006-01-26 09:27:28","fileurl":""},{"id":145473,"heading":"Who's Next","article":">>Golly, this sounds sinister. What's the next issue after you get rid of all the Mexicans? Start on the blacks?\r\n\r\nNope.  Maybe they'll go after Canadians, Irish, and Chinese.\r\n\r\nThey'll make fun of Michael J. Fox, the other Fox.","author":"((A))","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 13:32:17","modified":"2006-01-26 13:32:17","fileurl":""},{"id":145501,"heading":"To Pete Nice\/Fred Rice","article":"I am still not convinced that Pete Nice is not Fred Rice.\r\n\r\n\r\nLitte Jack Horner sat in a corner","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 20:37:52","modified":"2006-01-26 20:37:52","fileurl":""},{"id":145503,"heading":"To Manuel on  Indigenous","article":"I don't recall ever saying that  Indigenous cultures are not wondrous. \r\n\r\nI have been to Palenque, Tikal, Chichinitza and they are amazing  sites.  Full of  architectural mastery  and mystery.   Based on advanced mathematics etc.  \r\n\r\nI absolutely agree with your assessment there.\r\n\r\nMy point was this - I don't think you are going to convert the United States to your Indigenous life style.  BUT there are thriving Indigenous societies all around the globe. \r\n\r\nWhere you could live the Indigenous  life style - NOW.\r\n\r\nYou made disparaging comments about Europeans - what can I say to that?\r\n\r\nHere is the crux of the issue - uphold US law and the US Constitution.\r\n\r\nBorder Raven\r\n\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 21:01:40","modified":"2006-01-26 21:01:40","fileurl":""},{"id":145506,"heading":"Minutewoman is Border Raven","article":"check it out... the dummy signed his Minutewoman post as Border Raven!!  What a dummy.  \r\n\r\nmy opinions and only my opinions","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 21:34:13","modified":"2006-01-26 21:34:13","fileurl":""},{"id":145507,"heading":"To Pete Nice and Border Raven","article":"OH MY GOD - I am laughing so hard!  Minutewoman is Border Raven!  \r\n\r\nBorder Raven - is that not hysterically funny?\r\n\r\nPete Nice\/Fred Rice...this is a good laugh!  Thank you for the laughter.  What an image.\r\n\r\nYou got me good there Nice\/Rice!","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 21:39:14","modified":"2006-01-26 21:39:14","fileurl":""},{"id":145509,"heading":"why then","article":"Why did you sign as Border Raven then?  Answer me Jerry!!","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 21:44:39","modified":"2006-01-26 21:44:39","fileurl":""},{"id":145513,"heading":"Border Raven - is that not hysterically funny?","article":"ROTFLMAO  :)\r\n\r\nI just read an email from Minutewoman telling me what she did, and that I should get in here quicly to enjoy a good laugh.\r\n\r\nThank you Minutewoman, I guess you won't need to apply any blush to those cute cheeks today.\r\n\r\nNow, I just have to read that post.\r\n\r\n--the problem with LAIndy, is you have no option to go back and edit your post, as we do on the SOS forum.\r\nSo, you had better be damned sure you have it correct, because there ain't no going back.\r\n\r\nBR -- the original\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 22:48:40","modified":"2006-01-26 22:48:40","fileurl":""},{"id":145519,"heading":"Blur the lines a little Border Raven?","article":"Girls who are boys, who like boys to be girls, who do boys like they\u2019re girls, who do girls like they\u2019re boys, always should be someone you really love...\r\n\r\n","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 23:20:22","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:44","fileurl":""},{"id":145522,"heading":"Girls who are boys?","article":"&quot;Girls who are boys, who like boys to be girls, who do boys like they\u2019re girls, who do girls like they\u2019re boys, always should be someone you really love...&quot;\r\n\r\nMakes me worry what else may be hidden inside that mind of yours.\r\n\r\nBR ","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-26 23:32:09","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:44","fileurl":""},{"id":145532,"heading":"This is the REAL Minutewoman","article":"Hello Pete Nice!  I promise to no longer say you are Fred Rice...\r\n\r\nI am NOT Border Raven.\r\n\r\nNow listen - I think we need to NOT blur the lines.  That's my opinion.\r\n\r\nBoys are boys and Girls are, well, girls!\r\n\r\nSo that should prove I am the ever erudite MINUTEWOMAN not the charming, the one and only Border Raven!!!!","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 00:27:16","modified":"2006-01-27 00:27:16","fileurl":""},{"id":145533,"heading":"To Border Raven","article":"Border Raven - TO THE RESCUE!!!!\r\n\r\nYou are on it quick as a whip there man!\r\n\r\nClear my good feminie name - I am MINUTWOMAN and you are BORDER RAVEN\r\n\r\nTHANK YOU!!!!","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 00:29:13","modified":"2006-01-27 00:29:13","fileurl":""},{"id":145558,"heading":"I am MINUTWOMAN and you are BORDER RAVEN?","article":"Are we sure?\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 02:39:15","modified":"2006-01-27 02:39:15","fileurl":""},{"id":145580,"heading":"Lookie!","article":"Border Raven's talking to himself!  His feminine side and his other side are complimenting each other.\r\n\r\nand he's wondering what's going on in Pete Nice's mind!?!?!\r\n\r\nBR, I'm not sure which, but when your personalities start talking to each other, it means either you're about to have a breakthrough or you're about to have a breakdown.  Let us know how it works out.","author":"Lou","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 07:59:55","modified":"2006-01-27 07:59:55","fileurl":""},{"id":145589,"heading":"On Indigenous civilizations and law","article":"Border Raven (or is it Minutewoman, hey  what you do in your own private time is your business)\r\n\r\n\r\nYou were very rational in your assessment that we possessed &quot;amazing&quot; civilizations that were &quot;full of architectural mastery and mystery. Based on advanced mathematics etc.&quot;\r\n\r\n\r\nSee? Somewhere inside that Darth Vader outfit is some humanity that is in accord with logic and facts.\r\n\r\n\r\nLet's continue down that road, shall we?\r\nWhy isn't Palenque a modern city, thriving with technology and continued advancedments?\r\n\r\n\r\nThe answer is because of Europeans. It is Europeans who committed genocide against 95% of our people. \r\n\r\n&quot;American law&quot; is colonial law.\r\nJust as Jews in modern Israel do not look to the German Parliament for permission on how to behave as Jews in Israel, to too do we not need any persmission or approval from Europeans.\r\n\r\nIn fact, it is our duty to NOW assert our rights to this continent, and to restore the &quot;mastery and mystery...based on advanced mathematics etc&quot;  that should have rightfully been ours over the last 500 years.\r\n\r\nThis is how we should be living NOW, as Indigenous people.\r\n\r\n\r\nAs for &quot;disparaging comments towards Europeans,&quot; calling a burglar a burglar only feels &quot;disparaging&quot; from the burglar's mentality.\r\n \r\n","author":"Manuel A.","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 11:28:26","modified":"2006-01-27 11:28:26","fileurl":""},{"id":145595,"heading":"On Indigenous civilizations and Exploration of the New World","article":"On Indigenous Civilizations, Exploration, Discovery and Conquering of the New World\r\n\r\nExploration, Discovery and Conquering of the New World, was largely dependent on superior intelligence, modes of transportation, weapons development and tactics. It was  Homo-erectus who defeated Neanderthal, and populated North Africa, Europe and Asia. While this was happening others were exploring and migrating about the land mass eventually populating Southwest Asia, as still others went Northeast and eventually crossed into what is now Alaska. \r\n\r\nWhile the group in Alaska continued to migrate about North America and southward, the group in what is now Western Europe settled, and eventually became Spain, France, Germany, Italy, etc. By then methods of transportation, weapons, and tactics, had progressed, as did diseases and immunities.\r\n\r\nIt was inevitable for the populations who settled on one of the continents, to reach intellectual superiority, develop superior transportation, weapons and tactics, and finally find, and conflict, and defeat or be defeated, by the other. \r\n\r\nTo bring this to modern times, it was inevitable for one group to invent rockets (Chinese), but then make a rocket reach space (Russia), put humans on the Moon (USA with the help of Germans).\r\n\r\nTo take this to the future, either the people on Earth will discover a planet suitable for habitation (20,000 light years away?) or Extra-Terrestrials will find and conquer us.\r\n\r\nIn the mean time, we are stuck on this planet, on this Continent, and I don't see the Mexica or Aztlan, happening soon, so learn to accept it.\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 13:52:45","modified":"2006-01-27 13:52:45","fileurl":""},{"id":145626,"heading":"Telling it like it is","article":"After reading the comments on the report I now know why Don is so angry, scared, and worried about immigrant workers from Latin America; because he's worried about losing his high skilled job as a taxi driver to an immigrant worker. Now it all makes sense. I feel for you Don, but don't get mad at the immigrants, get mad at yourself for not going to school and getting a better job. Why do you get mad at people who just want to work? If you can win this argument without bringing up other issues such as crime or social services then you might have a valid argument and if your argument is the lowering of wages then just remember that there is such a thing as the minimum wage in California which every employer must comply with.\r\n","author":"Donnie is Dumb","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 22:43:17","modified":"2006-01-27 22:43:17","fileurl":""},{"id":145628,"heading":"WHY!?","article":"The question on every normal persons mind is: Why is SOS so angry at people who just want to work!? WHY!? These people just want to work! What is so wrong with that! Are they taking your job as a gardener, hotel maid, bus boy, janitor, or as a person picking fruit or selling flowers by the side of a freeway? Is that what you and Lou Dobbs are angry about cause I have no problem hiring Lou Dobbs to clean my toilet. You people piss me off cause you pretend to be patriots when all you are are racists plain and simple. Don't pretend to be something you are not. Just admit that you don't like Mexicans - the end - period point blank. Don't hide behind the American flag and 9-11 like so many people do to get support for their point of view, that is so lame.","author":"ANSWER ME!!!","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-27 23:00:39","modified":"2006-01-27 23:00:39","fileurl":""},{"id":145639,"heading":"No answers, read the old posts","article":"Where have you been? We've been all across this subject and back under it again. Read the material first.","author":"AyatollahGondola","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 01:06:49","modified":"2006-01-28 01:06:49","fileurl":""},{"id":145652,"heading":"Illegal?","article":"How can I be illegal in my own land!?","author":"what?","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 03:18:16","modified":"2006-01-28 03:18:16","fileurl":""},{"id":145654,"heading":"read the material","article":"Then we get this kind of ... material.\r\n-&quot;To bring this to modern times, it was inevitable for one group to invent rockets (Chinese), but then make a rocket reach space (Russia), put humans on the Moon (USA with the help of Germans). \r\n\r\nTo take this to the future, either the people on Earth will discover a planet suitable for habitation (20,000 light years away?) or Extra-Terrestrials will find and conquer us. &quot;-\r\n\r\nCome on.  There are limits you know.  Sometimes the issue gets clouded and the point get lost.  The point is corruption caused by corporate class crimes and down the chain, repression on the working class or indigenous people, paid for by this status quo of rapine.  You would leave your home also to try to survive.  Then there is the lurid lure of western excess.  That's another matter and a lesser motivation for leaving your home than poverty.","author":"Why?","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 03:35:18","modified":"2006-01-28 03:35:18","fileurl":""},{"id":145656,"heading":"The New Pledge","article":"I Pledge Allegiance to My God and to the people of the world and to the Republic for which it stands,\r\none Nation under God,\r\nindivisible, with liberty and justice for all, Amen\r\n\r\nGod bless all nations and the entire world! (not just America)\r\n\r\n","author":"just use it","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 04:16:08","modified":"2006-01-28 04:16:08","fileurl":""},{"id":145665,"heading":"New pledge of allegiance","article":"I pledge allegiance to the Flag\r\n\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 of the United Nations,\r\nso that no Republic stands.\r\n\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0\u00a0 United Nations under no God, \r\nnor Liberty or Justice for all.\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 05:23:43","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:45","fileurl":""},{"id":145673,"heading":"Lagina Beach: Minutemen are racists","article":"Poor Minutemen.\r\nThey can't even march in a parade. \r\n\r\nThe City of Laguna Beach denied the Minutemen's appilcation to march in the parade because the group is &quot;too controversial.&quot;\r\n\r\n\r\nThat's a polite euphemism for &quot;The Minutemen are racists, and everybody knows it.&quot;\r\n\r\n\r\nAlas, there was no joy in Mudville, \r\nfor the mighty Minutemen had struck out.","author":"Manuel A.","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 10:07:48","modified":"2006-01-28 10:07:48","fileurl":""},{"id":145719,"heading":"Flag Salute","article":"rexcurry.net has some interesting background on the flag salute.\r\n\r\nWe need a &quot;right wing conspiracy nomenclature&quot; to decode Border Raven and the other right wingers.  They have their own definitions for so many words.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-28 22:38:04","modified":"2006-01-28 22:38:04","fileurl":""},{"id":145895,"heading":"Bored uh Raven's &quot;History Lesson&quot;","article":"&quot;Border&quot; &quot;Raven's&quot; history lesson (On Indigenous civilizations and Exploration of the New World, above) is ludicrous claptrap.\r\n\r\n1. Humans lived for 2 million years without classes, conquest or exploitation. \r\n\r\n2. Classes, conquest and exploitation are aberrations of the last 10,000 years.\r\n\r\n3. Until 1492 Europe was a backwater trying to trade pots and pans for gold and luxury items from the more &quot;advanced civilizations&quot;, especially from India and China.\r\n\r\n4. But the Muslim nations had a lock on sea trade. Hence the effort to find an Eastern passage to India.\r\n\r\n5. From the outset Europe imposed trade on more &quot;advanced&quot; civilizations of the era because it had developed one key thing - the cannon.\r\n\r\n6. Europe would nonetheless have remained a backwater had it not been for the theft of gold from the Native Peoples of the Western Hemisphere, which fueled the rise of capitalism and the &quot;Renaissance.&quot;\r\n\r\n7. The &quot;Renaissance&quot; was not a &quot;Renaissance.&quot; There was nothing in Europe to renew. The learning the &quot;re-discovered&quot; was not and had never been European, but was rather Athenian, Egyptian, Perisan, Roman and Muslim. None of these societies considered themselves &quot;European.&quot; They all were centered on the Mediterranean Sea, not &quot;Europe.&quot;\r\n\r\n8. It was no &quot;discovery at all. The most &quot;advanced&quot; people of Afro-Eurasia  at that time were the Muslims. _THEY _ preserved the knowledge of the &quot;Ancient&quot; &quot;world&quot; and bestowed it upon Europe, esp through the Iberian Penninsula and Italy, which were in whole or part under Muslim rule.\r\n\r\nIn sum: When Europeans conquered Mexico and Western South America (the principle sources of gold and silver - which Europe utterly lacked) Europe was a filthy backwater where no one bathed (this is a matter of historcial record) that had just finished killing some 11 million of its own people in bloodthirsty, savage, Inquisitions and and many more in religous wars of conquest.\r\n\r\nMexican and South American gold, silver and foodstuffs _made_ Europe, along with Muslim knowledge.\r\n\r\nThere was not a damn thing &quot;superior&quot; about the backwoods joint.\r\n\r\nBorder Raven seems not to have read a history book since 1848.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Morales","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-31 10:39:57","modified":"2006-01-31 10:39:57","fileurl":""},{"id":145918,"heading":"Who discovered America?","article":"Sure, it weren't some backwoods joint?\r\n\r\nWho built this Nation?\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-31 20:51:00","modified":"2006-01-31 20:51:00","fileurl":""},{"id":145919,"heading":"Slaves","article":"Slaves built this nation.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-31 20:54:36","modified":"2006-01-31 20:54:36","fileurl":""},{"id":145927,"heading":"THIS IS LORI SILVA","article":"To all my Mechista\/Reconquista\/Anarchist\/Communist &quot;fans&quot;:\r\nIt seems that the evil neo-nazi aryan supremacist devils at &quot;save our state&quot; keep hiding the truth about the organization at Wikipedia. They keep deleting the pix of all the purdy nazi and confederate flags that were waved at the SOS event in Laguna Beach in the &quot;external links&quot; section. I luv those pix, becuzzz it was my hubby, Don, who brought the nazi\/confederate flag wavers in the first place.\r\n\r\nSo, several times each day, please re-post the lovely pixx so the world can see the works of everybody's favorite nazi devil, Don Silva!!!\r\n\r\n    * http:\/\/www.la.indymedia.org\/news\/2005\/07\/133898.php\r\n    * http:\/\/www.la.indymedia.org\/news\/2005\/07\/133802.php\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/en.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Save_Our_State\r\n\r\nP.S. are you proud of me, Donnie, becuzzz I hope you are!!!\r\n","author":"LORI SILVA","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-31 23:36:07","modified":"2006-01-31 23:36:07","fileurl":""},{"id":145964,"heading":"Who &quot;Discovered&quot; America","article":"Hmmm...\r\n\r\nWho Discovered America?\r\n\r\nMan, that's a profound historical question. It demonstrates Bored uh Raven's grasp of  _real_ history.\r\n\r\nAnswer?\r\n\r\nNO ONE f%*^*& discovered &quot;America.&quot;\r\n\r\nIt was always here. \r\n\r\nYou were just too stupid to know it.\r\n\r\nBUT IF YOU GOTTA HAVE &quot;DISCOVERIES.&quot; \r\n\r\nI mean, who &quot;discovered&quot; Europe?\r\n\r\nWell, guess who? AFRICANS DISCOVERED EUROPE.\r\n\r\nThen, according to the most recent studies a mutation occured that turned the skin of the Africans in Europe WHITE.\r\n\r\nThen these white Africans decided they were superior because they were now WHITE.\r\n\r\nThe rest, as they say, is history.\r\n\r\n","author":"Morales","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-01 07:12:43","modified":"2006-02-01 07:12:43","fileurl":""},{"id":146101,"heading":"If Fredric feels ignored","article":"Ok Fredric you want more attention. Heres my suggestion. It worked for me but it wasnt my idea. After I went to a meeting in carlsbad, someone thoughtfully got my address phone number, (both work and home) and lots of other personal data .on an iddymedia site.  calling me a Nazi\r\n\r\n I got lots of attention after that but  for me it was unwanted. So here is my suggestion. \r\n\r\nTaunt someone on the SOS side calling them your moral and intellectual inferior and post pictures of them going into their homes and workplace. Eventully some inferior will decide to taunt you back by legally postiing your home address in Glendora on Brxxxxxl street. They might post your phone number of 626 953-xxxx fax 626-953-xxxx  they can post your place of employment and phone number your medical info, equifax info. Publishing your social security number might be illegal but it is EVERYWHERE on the net and you think they are moral inferiors anyway so who knows. Of course Jana your wife would also e fair game\r\n\r\nSince the brain challenged SOS  can't figure out how to do a person search you'll most likely have to do it your self.  Remember though that every piece of information about you is already on the internet published by you or your legal agent.\r\n\r\nNow even tough this was done to me I have no intention of doing this under ANY circumstances and I am in no way threatening you or blackmailing you. Morally inferior or not I think it is repugnant  to destroy someones privacy, even if they did it first to you. \r\n\r\nYou want attention from the other side, go for it. You will be amazed, yes amazed how much attention you will get from SOS\r\n\r\n\r\nMy opinion only and only my opinion\r\n\r\nGunny Bob","author":"Gunny Bob","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-02 15:34:23","modified":"2006-02-02 15:34:23","fileurl":""},{"id":146202,"heading":"Hmm","article":"No one is going anywhere, Mimbreno.  So just settle the hell down.  This planet belongs to no one and to everyone.","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-03 05:39:01","modified":"2006-02-03 05:39:01","fileurl":""},{"id":146263,"heading":"To John K on slavery","article":"You say &quot;slaves built this nation.&quot;  \r\n\r\nSo is that how modern day slave trading - the day laborer site abuse of workers - is to be justified?\r\n\r\nDay laborer sites are there for employers to massively abuse foreign nationals.  When activists rally in support of day laborer sites, they are puppets in the hands of greedy employers.\r\n\r\nAnd corrupt corporations like Home Depot.\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 01:00:37","modified":"2006-02-04 01:00:37","fileurl":""},{"id":146264,"heading":"To Hmmm Morales","article":"History is a record of events - written most often - sometimes oral.\r\n\r\nYou say that Africans became white in Europe.  You term this &quot;history.&quot;\r\n\r\n What historical document are you referrring to?\r\n\r\nPlease advise as I would like to read this historical record you are quoting from.","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 01:07:31","modified":"2006-02-04 01:07:31","fileurl":""},{"id":146265,"heading":"Slaves?","article":"All workers are exploited to one degree or another but I don't know where you guys get off calling day laborers slaves.  As far as I know, day laborers are compensated for their work.  Otherwise why would they do it?\r\n\r\nIf you're worried that they're not compensated enough well then you need to start calling all low wage workers slaves.  Or if you really care about them, like you pretend to, you would want them to be paid more.\r\n\r\n  ","author":"Pete Nice","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 01:08:49","modified":"2006-02-04 01:08:49","fileurl":""},{"id":146280,"heading":"Slaves","article":"I just stated a fact that people forget.  &quot;Slaves built this country.&quot;  That's not a justification of anything.  Rather, it taints the country, casts a dark shadown on our history, and explains a lot of why things are still screwed up.  The fact that people don't remember that slaves built this country is just historical amnesia.\r\n\r\nThis has nothing to do wth day laborers, who are not slaves.  MW thinks they are slaves, but, they simply do not qualify as &quot;slaves.&quot;  Slaves have one &quot;boss,&quot; their owner; the laborers are free people who work for different clients.\r\n\r\nThere are people here, today, who are real slaves or indentured workers.  That's a different issue.\r\n\r\nThere are also virtual slaves working in prisons, making stuff for corporations.  That, again, is a different issue.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 08:10:12","modified":"2006-02-04 08:10:12","fileurl":""},{"id":146282,"heading":"Minutewoman + Prehistory","article":"I didn't say the info on mutations was based on documents, and I didn't say it was history. \r\n\r\nHistory is, as you point out, most often defined as the study of docoments about and from the past, but acceptable data also include archaeological and anthropological data.\r\n\r\nIn this case, we are not talking about &quot;history&quot; but so-called &quot;pre-history.&quot;\r\n\r\nThe point I was making about Africnas in Europe was rhetorical, not strictly historical,as  you well know.\r\n\r\nBut it was based on the latest science.\r\n\r\nIn any case here are a few sources.\r\n\r\n\r\nwww.azcentral.com\/rsslinks\/120165\r\nwww.npr.org\/templates\/story\/story.php?storyId=5055391\r\nwww.startribune.com\/dynamic\/mobile_story.php?story=5799661\r\nen.wikipedia.org\/wiki\/Human_skin_color\r\nwww.huffingtonpost.com\/2005\/12\/16\/scientists-discover-gene-_n_12367.html\r\n","author":"Morales","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 09:12:41","modified":"2006-02-04 09:12:41","fileurl":""},{"id":146283,"heading":"One More Link","article":"This is the most comprehensive treatement I've seen in the mainstream press.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/www.washingtonpost.com\/wp-dyn\/content\/article\/2005\/12\/15\/AR2005121501728_pf.html","author":"Morales","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-04 09:18:01","modified":"2006-02-04 09:18:01","fileurl":""},{"id":146349,"heading":"Slaves","article":"Would you define day laborers as &quot;employees&quot; or &quot;independent sub-contractors&quot;? Explain:\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-05 03:59:27","modified":"2006-02-05 03:59:27","fileurl":""},{"id":146366,"heading":"Contractors","article":"Day laborers are independent contractors, or sub-contractors.  They aren't employees.  Perhaps there's a different category somewhere between the two.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-05 06:32:22","modified":"2006-02-05 06:32:22","fileurl":""},{"id":146418,"heading":"They are not contractors","article":"The Mexican day laborors are not contractors. \r\n\r\nIn California to be a contractor or a sub- contractor, you need to have a contractors license, a $7500 bond.  if they perform more than $300  worth of work.  They are at will association. They work until they quit or are fired. There is no contract.\r\n\r\nThe IRS would not call them independent contractors since they work on an hourly basis, do not provide their ownj tools  and have are supervised by another.\r\n\r\nThey also are not employees. To be an employee they must have workers comp insurance, a W-2 on file and social security deductions.  \r\n\r\nAnd there is a third catagory. It is an illegal association. The employer avoids paying taxes( and providing insurance ( a crime)  The employee avoids paying income and social security taxes( also a crime)\r\n\r\nAnd it is the homeowner who will end up paying for allowing  criminal activity.  \r\n\r\nI hope that every illegal alien that is injured on the job files a complaint with workers comp and sues the homeowner for negliegence.  The illegal alien is sure to win. ","author":"Roger Young","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-05 21:37:33","modified":"2006-02-05 21:37:33","fileurl":""},{"id":146445,"heading":"No safe harbor","article":"I think John K is trying to say they are independent business owners, like a service industry. the flaw in this theory is that that to prevent unscrupuolous employers from avoiding employment taxes and insurance, the tax agency set up a very strict guideline for them to follow. there is a term called &quot;safe harbor&quot; in relation to this rule, and it requires the the independent worker and the business that services are being provided to, keep records to show that they are in compliance with it. That means the workers need an invoice book, ledger, insurance etc. And independent workers are required to carry workers comp insurance on themselves, even if you are not a corporation. Your personal health policy, if you have one, may require re-imbursement from you if you are injured while in the course of your business.\r\n","author":"AyatollahGondola","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-06 06:12:06","modified":"2006-02-06 06:12:06","fileurl":""},{"id":146477,"heading":"What AG said","article":"Yeah, what AG said.  I'm not talking about a &quot;licensed contractor&quot; which is a different thing.  I mean the tax category.  It's not entirely clear what their status is, and they might be classified as one, or might really be employees.\r\n\r\nThe original question was &quot;slavery&quot; or not.  Well, they aren't slaves, and to claim so is hyperbole.  They are free.  &quot;Employees or not?&quot;  It's a gray area to me, because I'm not involved on either side of the transaction.","author":"johnk","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-06 13:06:35","modified":"2006-02-06 13:06:35","fileurl":""},{"id":146491,"heading":"color blind johnk?","article":"The whole point to that post was to mention that there is no gray area. Violating the tax code, or &quot;law&quot; is one of the many grievances we at SOS have with day laborers and their patrons. the tax code has been taking aim at gray areas for a long time, and hitting their mark as far as they are written. The enforcement of them is where we have been placing our efforts, and it is those who still wish to go back to &quot;grayer&quot; days that keep tendering a racial defense, or selective exclusion from from prosecution. And before you all go jumping on the many inequitites of the tax laws in general as justification for ignoring these ones, Most of us at SOS ARE in favor of revamping the tax code so that the poor are not shouldering the burden for the rich. It is so often the rich that reap the rewards of illegal immigration, but in a broader sense usually","author":"AyatollahGondola","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-06 17:44:19","modified":"2006-02-06 17:44:19","fileurl":""},{"id":146578,"heading":"They are employees. Are they eligible for employment in the USA?","article":"Not until the employer makes that determination, on the DHS Form I-9.\r\n\r\nAnd if the employee is hired for less than 3-days, the I-9 must be completed at the time of hire.\r\n\r\nBR\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":145169,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-02-08 02:36:21","modified":"2006-02-08 02:36:21","fileurl":""}]}