{"article":{"id":142495,"heading":"Costa Mesa's March to Justice","author":"Leslie Radford","created":"2005-12-25 10:59:39","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:14","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 08:37:14","article":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<?xml encoding=\"UTF-8\"><html><body><p>COSTA MESA, CA, December 23, 2005--Eighty people, calling Costa Mesa's Mayor\r\nMansoor a racist and proclaiming \"Ning&uacute;n ser humano es ilegal,\"\r\nmarched through Costa Mesa this afternoon in outrage at the city council's\r\nresolution to empower the city police department to check the immigration status\r\nof suspects. The city is the first in the country to commit its police to border\r\ncontrol, and the demonstrators were determined to reverse that. <\/p>\r\n<p>The protestors, made up mostly of Mexican-Americans with a handful of white\r\nanarchists and activists, gathered at 3:00 p.m. on Sunflower Avenue, in plain\r\nsight of holiday shoppers at the South Coast Plaza mall.  An hour later,\r\nthe group marched along Sunflower waving their signs as motorists speeding by\r\nhonked their horns in support.<\/p>\r\n<p>I walked for a while with one of the event organizers, a woman from Colectivo\r\nTonantzin.  We had met before, after the anti-Minuteman protest in Garden\r\nGrove, where several protestors were run down by a Jim Gilchrist supporter and\r\nfive were ultimately arrested, one for \"stealing\" a flashlight lying\r\non the ground.  She and the others had a red-hot anger at the May Minuteman\r\nmeeting that had made manifest the racism next door.  Now, more than six\r\nmonths later, she and the group were steely-eyed and determined.  They were\r\nhere to do business, to expose the city council for scapegoating immigrants and\r\nfor officially dividing the people of Costa Mesa along ethnic lines.<\/p>\r\n<p>Mayor Mansoor's original proposal, which would have targeted people of \r\nMeso-American descent for immigration checks for the smallest infraction, even\r\njaywalking, was roundly opposed by the overwhelming  majority of the\r\n200-plus residents attending the December 6 city council meeting.  <\/p>\r\n<p>Despite the fierce opposition, Costa Mesa became the first city in the nation\r\nto authorize its police department to verify residency status.<\/p>\r\n<p>The policy the council would train police officers to verify the residence\r\nstatus of any person suspected of a crime with US Immigration.  Mansoor\r\nclaimed the verification training would make the streets of the city safer - but\r\nhe could not explain how residency checks would accomplish that.  The\r\nprogram will cost several hundred thousand dollars and has no provisions to\r\ndeter false arrest or mass roundups of so-called suspects for immigration\r\nchecks.  The protestors plan to continue pressuring the city council to\r\nreverse it new policy of legalized racial profiling.<\/p>\r\n<p>The marchers turned left onto Fairview Road, into a working class\r\nneighborhood earmarked by the Costa Mesa Planning Commission for gentrification.\r\nI stopped to make a purchase and fell a block or two behind the group.  At\r\nthe next light, a couple of marchers had waited for me to catch up.  We\r\nchatted about the long walk, the early darkness, and the small guitar one of\r\nthem carried.  We caught up with the others, and my companions joined the\r\nother guitarists who had accompanied us.<\/p>\r\n<p>Enveloped in the soltice darkness, we reached Fairview and Fall Drive, where\r\nthe group broke into long chants of \"The people united will never be\r\ndefeated!\" and \"&iexcl;Aqu&iacute; estamos, y no nos vamos!\"  As the\r\nguitarists picked up the rhythm, the chants turned melodious as we approached\r\nthe police station.  We were met there by more protestors, and together we\r\ncheered on speakers as the police videotaped us and print journalists counted\r\nthe crowd.  Only a few of us recognized the four members of Save Our State,\r\nan anti-immigrant group which had promised a counterprotest, huddled by their\r\npickup truck in the parking lot.  <\/p>\r\n<p>I looked around to discover we were surrounded by and intertwined with\r\nchildren.  Tiny ones in their fathers' arms, toddlers dressed up in fuzzy\r\ncoats and furry boots, boys and girls doing cartwheels on the grass lawn of the\r\nstation.  I wondered how it would feel to grow up in a nation where the\r\npolice demanded, \"Papers, please.\"<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","contact":"leslie@radiojustice.net","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","summary":"Costa Mesans marched and rallied in opposition to the city council's vote to turn the police department into border patrol agents.","numcomment":72,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/2005\/12\/a_child_in_costa_mesa.jpg","filesize":"31.4 kibibytes","article_url":"\/news\/2005\/12\/142495.php","image":{"original":"\/uploads\/2005\/12\/a_child_in_costa_mesa.jpg","small":"\/uploads\/2005\/12\/a_child_in_costa_mesa.jpgthumb.jpg","medium":"\/uploads\/2005\/12\/a_child_in_costa_mesa.jpgmid.jpg"}},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":142526,"heading":"Really?","article":"Eighty Coasta mesians? Right!! I believe that, I really really do. Last time I looked out my front door the people that grew up and lived in Costa Mesa mainly spoke English. All Humans are illegal and in need of a healthy dose of reality and maybe an education that goes beyond the 3rd grade.\r\n\r\nThe comedy is the best thing this site has going for it.","author":"Quizling","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-25 15:23:30","modified":"2005-12-25 15:23:30","fileurl":""},{"id":142566,"heading":"Thank You","article":"Thank You Leslie Radford for exposing and taking action against injustice and rasicm within our communities. ","author":"Amor y Paz","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-26 00:13:01","modified":"2005-12-26 00:13:01","fileurl":""},{"id":142691,"heading":"American citizens VOTE","article":"This march represents a small segment of  Costa Mesa.  The mayor is an elected official.  In our country, elected officials are to do the will of the people.  The voters in Costa Mesa support the Mayor's plan\r\n\r\nCosta Mesa is a role model for other cities across our nation to follow.  Costa Mesa is on the cutting edge of the things to come.\r\n\r\nDon't like the way America is run?  Move!  Leave this country and practice your ideals in another land.","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-28 06:02:12","modified":"2005-12-28 06:02:12","fileurl":""},{"id":142705,"heading":"Hey minutewoman","article":"<Don't like the way America is run? Move! Leave this country and practice your ideals in another land.>\r\n\r\nSpoken like the true Fascists you are, minutewoman. And you wonder why we oppose you? Got any other &quot;original thoughts&quot; or is that about it?","author":"1st hand source","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-28 16:40:06","modified":"2005-12-28 16:40:06","fileurl":""},{"id":142706,"heading":"1st hand source","article":"If you are in a movie theater watching a crappy movie, and you sit there whining and complaining about it, and the guy behind you says... &quot;hey, if you don't like the flick, then maybe you'd be happier if you left!&quot;... Do you then call that guy a &quot;fascist&quot;?\r\n\r\n\r\nIf you spend your days blubbering in sanctmonious self pity about how terrible the USA is then don't be surprised if someone suggests you might be happier elsewhere.   Your attitude invites the suggestion. \r\n\r\nNow... your desire to cram your agenda down the throats of the majority who disagree with you... THAT my friend, is FASCISM.  \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Tramp","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-28 17:15:37","modified":"2005-12-28 17:15:37","fileurl":""},{"id":142718,"heading":"Hey Tramp","article":"<If you are in a movie theater watching a crappy movie, and you sit there whining and complaining about it, and the guy behind you says...&quot;hey, if you don't like the flick, then maybe you'd be happier if you left!&quot;>\r\n\r\nI say, &quot;No, YOU'D be happier if I left. I paid my ten bucks. I ain't going anywhere, a-hole! Here, wear my soda, falker!&quot;\r\n\r\n<Do you then call that guy a &quot;fascist&quot;?>\r\n\r\nDefinitely. He's trying to kick me out of the country er...I mean &quot;movie theater&quot; because he doesn't like what I've got to say. I'm not trying to kick HIM out. See the difference? : )\r\n\r\n<If you spend your days blubbering in sanctmonious self pity about how terrible the USA is>\r\n\r\n&quot;self pity&quot;??  I have none. I'm NOT the problem; I'm just BRINGING UP the problem; and that's BECOME the problem, for &quot;people&quot; like minutegirl. So why hate on me?\r\n\r\n<then don't be surprised if someone suggests you might be happier elsewhere>\r\n\r\nHuh? Uh....okay, I didn't know minutemama is just a-lookin' after my happiness. She is just so sad and shook-up when I'm not happy, thanks a bunch, Ma, luv ya. [fighting back tears]\r\nListen, Tramp she didn't mention anything about me being &quot;happy somewhere else&quot;. [indignant now] The LAST thing she wants is for her political opponents to be &quot;happy&quot;. STOP amending her comments!\r\n\r\n<Your attitude invites the suggestion.>\r\n\r\nWhat attitude? ; )\r\n\r\n<Now...your desire to cram your agenda down the throats of the majority who disagree with you...>\r\n\r\nI'm not trying to cram anything down anybody's throat. I'm trying to PERSUADE. Ever hear of that? I'm not the one trying to forcibly deport people. SHE IS. I don't want ANYONE to be deported, NO ONE. Not even YOU. I don't want Europeans sent back to Europe or Africans sent back to Africa or North Americans sent back to North America...whataminut....oh my gosh...they haven't left.\r\n\r\n<THAT my friend, is FASCISM.>\r\n\r\nTHAT tramp guy, just shows how little you know. \r\n\r\n","author":"1st hand source","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-28 20:23:11","modified":"2005-12-28 20:23:11","fileurl":""},{"id":142722,"heading":"VOTE 1st hand","article":"Of course, You are free to express your opinion in America.\r\n\r\nAs am I.\r\n\r\nAgain, the mayor reflects the voters in Costa Mesa.  If you want change in Costa Mesa, vote it in.\r\n\r\nObviously you are a fascist.  It is clear in every word you type - you will tolerate your ideology and nothing else.  You are the working definition of fascism. You are a modern day Nazi.  The new racist of the 21st  Century.\r\n\r\nDon't like what you are seeing?  Then change it by the vote. Here is the advice of the day:\r\n\r\nVOTE","author":"MInutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-28 22:33:54","modified":"2005-12-28 22:33:54","fileurl":""},{"id":142732,"heading":"Crippled Hand","article":"You said:  &quot;I say, &quot;No, YOU'D be happier if I left. I paid my ten bucks. I ain't going anywhere, a-hole! Here, wear my soda, falker&quot;\r\n\r\nThat pretty much sums it up... you'd rather sit and in shit whine about it if you thought it made others unhappy.  Damn selfish of you.  You aren't interested in changing anything.  If you were, as minutewoman suggests, you'd vote.   But you aren't interested in the democratic process. \r\n\r\nYou said:  &quot;I'm NOT the problem; I'm just BRINGING UP the problem... <blather>&quot;\r\n\r\nReally?  Your shotgun accusation that minutewoman is a &quot;fascist&quot;  isn't a problem?  You ARE the problem, imbecile.   You operate on the default assumption that anyone who disagrees with you is a fascist and probably a racist.   It is YOU, my retarded friend, who is the fascist.  \r\n\r\nIf you'd put your 'Bush is a Nazi' sign down for awhile you might have time to finish that GED.","author":"Tramp","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-28 23:56:20","modified":"2005-12-28 23:56:20","fileurl":""},{"id":142738,"heading":"actually","article":"Actually it's the Minutemen that aren't happy with the way this country is run... maybe they should leave.","author":"pete nice","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-29 02:36:07","modified":"2005-12-29 02:36:07","fileurl":""},{"id":142775,"heading":"Hey Minutemama\/Tramp","article":"Encyclopedia Britannica\r\nMacropaedia Volume 7\r\n15th edition, 1979\r\npage 182\r\n\r\nFascism:\r\n\r\n&quot;Common to all fascist movements was an emphasis on the nation (race or state) as the centre and regulator of all history and life, and on the indisputable authority of the leader behind whom the people were expected to form an unbreakable unity...The message of the Enlightenment had served to enhance the dignity of the individual and had emphasized openness in a secularized society. In contrast, fascism extolled the supreme sovereignty of the nation as an absolute. It demanded the revival of the spirit of the ancient polis (city-state), above all of Sparta with its discipline and total devotion to duty, and of the complete coordination of all intellectual and political thought and activities against modern individualism and scientific skepticism...Fascism returned to an authoritarian order, based upon the subordination of the individual and the inequality of caste and rank.&quot;\r\n\r\nMinutewoman: \r\n<Don't like the way America is run? Move! Leave this country and practice your ideals in another land.>\r\n\r\nTramp:\r\n<If you spend your days blubbering in sanctmonious self pity about how terrible the USA is then don't be surprised if someone suggests you might be happier elsewhere.>\r\n\r\n1st hand source:\r\n<I don't want ANYONE deported. NO ONE. Not even YOU.>\r\n\r\nNow, who is the fascist?\r\n\r\n<Don't like what you are seeing? Then change it by the vote.>\r\nAnd...\r\n<You aren't interested in changing anything. If you were, as minutewoman suggests, you'd vote. But you aren't interested in the democratic process.>\r\n\r\nWhat makes you think, I don't vote? FYI, I have voted in every election since your boy GW stole the 2000 election. Of course, not for anyone YOU'D approve of. So there! ;)\r\n\r\n<You ARE the problem, imbecile. You operate on the default assumption that anyone who disagrees with you is a fascist and probably a racist.>\r\n\r\nActually, I suspect it to be the other way around. :)\r\n\r\n<If you'd put your 'Bush is a Nazi' sign down for awhile you might have time to finish that GED.>\r\n\r\nAH HA...so that's your fiendish plot. I knew it! YOU will NEVER take my 'Bush is a Nazi' sign. NEVER. Now that I'm on to you, you'll have to pry it from my cold, dead fingers! Take that!","author":"1st hand source","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-29 19:16:07","modified":"2005-12-29 19:16:07","fileurl":""},{"id":142779,"heading":"OK 1st Hand","article":"Well so you admit you vote?  Then you certainly realize the Mayor of Costa Mesa is doing his job.\r\n\r\nWe live in a Republic.  Elected officials reflect the will of the people.\r\n\r\nThe Mayor of Costa Mesa is merely doing his public duty in regard to the voter.\r\n\r\nYour quote on fascism?  Sounds just like you.  That information you posted applies to you 1st Hand because you are a part of the modern day fascist movement.\r\n\r\nJust read Indymedia - this site is a magnet for racists - like you - with your own fascist quotation to prove it.","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-29 19:59:16","modified":"2005-12-29 19:59:16","fileurl":""},{"id":142787,"heading":"1st hand source","article":"It's fantastic that you have figured out how to look up a definition.  Unfortunately you don't understand the definition.   If you had, you'd realize that we don't live in a fascist state in the United States.   If you want to learn what an actual fascist state is like, try going to the Middle East (where I did 2 tours of duty).   Another great place to learn about fascism is Cuba.\r\n\r\nIt's clear that you'll go to any length to try and support your juvenile and incorrect use of the term 'fascist'.   It might be better for you to simply admit the stupidity of your remarks and move on to something more your speed, like a job as a dog washer.","author":"Tramp","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-29 22:19:40","modified":"2005-12-29 22:19:40","fileurl":""},{"id":142795,"heading":"Definition of a Fasicist (it's u Tramp and Minutewoman)","article":"Mussolini defined fascism as being a right-wing ideology in opposition to socialism, liberalism, democracy and individualism. He said in The Political and Social Doctrine of Fascism:\r\n\r\n&quot;Granted that the 19th century was the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy, this does not mean that the 20th century must also be the century of socialism, liberalism, democracy. Political doctrines pass; nations remain. We are free to believe that this is the century of authority, a century tending to the 'right', a Fascist century. If the 19th century was the century of the individual (liberalism implies individualism) we are free to believe that this is the 'collective' century, and therefore the century of the State.&quot; [3]","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-29 23:15:29","modified":"2005-12-29 23:15:29","fileurl":""},{"id":142800,"heading":"The Mayor of Costa Mesa has the","article":"support of the Costa Mesa Community. That is why we elected him.\r\n\r\nA few professional leftist loud mouths, who don't live here are of no consequence.","author":"CMRES","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 02:04:39","modified":"2005-12-30 02:04:39","fileurl":""},{"id":142807,"heading":"how dare costa mesa enforce the law! :(","article":"to pete:\r\nactually, the leftists don't want the status quo either, they want open borders and\/or amnesty.\r\n\r\ncosta mesa is doing what it's citizens want. they have no obligation to do what some other country's citizens want. ","author":"mike","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 03:32:46","modified":"2005-12-30 03:32:46","fileurl":""},{"id":142813,"heading":"To st hand","article":"If first hands hand  wasnt so busy doing.....er never mind, maybe he could use it to vote instead of........\r\nYou get the pic!!! ","author":"OC","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 06:05:15","modified":"2005-12-30 06:05:15","fileurl":""},{"id":142826,"heading":"Oh, El Chivo","article":"Just because you are the modern day fascist - you need not fuss and stew so!\r\n\r\nThis Indymedia is the current face of Nazism!  You all are the new racist, fascist, Nazis of the 21st Century.\r\n\r\nYou keep your little definitions of fascims near and dear to your heart  so YOU can refer to who YOU are!\r\n\r\n","author":"MInutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 18:58:07","modified":"2005-12-30 18:58:07","fileurl":""},{"id":142827,"heading":"To 1st Hand again","article":"Juvenile?\r\n\r\nI am juvenile?  Well I suppose I will accept that term. Juvenile indeed!\r\n\r\nWell you speak like a true fascist once again!  This whole Indymedia site is composed of  such nonsense.\r\n\r\nI read it as comedy!  That's all for now 1st hand!  But  I actually do like the term juvenile.\r\n\r\nUH OH you COMPLIMENTED ME!!!!  \r\n\r\nBetter pull out your fascist encyclopedia quick!!!!!\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 19:05:27","modified":"2005-12-30 19:05:27","fileurl":""},{"id":142828,"heading":"indy = nonsense?","article":"If Indymedia is so full of nonsense and nazi lies then why do you and your ilk spend som much time here???\r\n\r\nWe're in your head!!  Face it!!  We live next door to you  . . . we're in your town!!  YOU ARE THE MINORITY!!","author":"pete nice","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 19:11:53","modified":"2005-12-30 19:11:53","fileurl":""},{"id":142848,"heading":"To Minutewoman","article":"Follow your legacy Minutewoman. one of your organizer for the border watch is Tom Metzger. you might want to see this site: http:\/\/www.johnnyleeclary.com\/metzger.htm","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 20:26:05","modified":"2005-12-30 20:26:05","fileurl":""},{"id":142855,"heading":"How do you identify an Undoc?","article":"I have often wondered how someone can identify an undoc.\r\n\r\nThis provision that Culo Mesa wants to install in their city ordinance must have a description of what constitutes a reason(s) to suspect a person of committing a crime with US Immigration.\r\n\r\nIs it based on attire, language, complexion, neighborhood, type of job or what - if it is any of these, then the provision qualifies as discriminatory and is heading for the courts.\r\n\r\nWe all know that by suspect they mean Latino.\r\n\r\nWhen the Anties exaggerate the numbers of undocs to be at least 30 million, every Latino is a suspect since there are only 40 million Latinos in the whole US.\r\n\r\nI remember a few years back when the Anties wanted Latinos to wear a visible credential that would identify them as tourists, legal residents or citizens.  The Anties always resort to using the same tactics that Nazi Germany used to subjugate the Jews. \r\n\r\nTime to call the ACLU.\r\n\r\nIn the mean time, all Chicanos, Mexicanos, Latinos should refuse to carry IDs while in the ciudad de Culo Mesa.","author":"Pachuco","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 21:51:30","modified":"2005-12-30 21:51:30","fileurl":""},{"id":142863,"heading":"How do you identify an Undoc?","article":"Good question, since you cannot use a person's  appearance, skin color, attire or language, anyone who was purple, or green, dressed in silvery-metalic clothing and emanating a colorful aurora or vibrating  musical tunes into the air, would pass without I.C.E., being able to touch them. But, let them start eating cars,  guzzling sea water, and shitting gold, then you have suspected &quot;undoc&quot;.\r\n\r\nYou assume too much, and too soon. The city of Costa Mesa, is in a process of writing a policy or law, and processes take time.  Ply &quot;wait and see&quot;. \r\nYou might like the result and I might protest it.\r\n\r\nThe protest march and rally, was premature, and not needed, unless someone wanted to drag their children along on a 4 mile walk, cool temperatures, damp fog, and darkness, but I digress.\r\n \r\nYour bastardizing of the city name, makes you suspect of being an undoc, or at least a tourist. I've seen many  Arizonans who couln't pronounce place names in San Diego.\r\n\r\nA good way to identify an undoc, is by their lack of identification, since many discard that stuff at the border. Failure to give proper ID, is  sure way for the cops, to take you in for a photo, finger prints, computer search, a cup of coffee, and some small talk.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 22:53:56","modified":"2005-12-30 22:53:56","fileurl":""},{"id":142868,"heading":"Only if Suspected","article":"Border Raven wrote: &quot;Your bastardizing of the city name, makes you suspect of being an undoc, or at least a tourist. I've seen many Arizonans who couldn\u2019t pronounce place names in San Diego.&quot;\r\n\r\nSurely you jest.  I call San Francisco, San Pancho, El Paso is El Chuco, New York is Nuevo Yorque, Los Angeles is Los, San Diego is Dago, etc etc etc.  Us chucos have our own language - it's called Cal\u00f3.  The truckers call my city Cholo Juana.\r\n\r\nBorder Raven wrote: &quot;A good way to identify an undoc, is by their lack of identification, since many discard that stuff at the border. Failure to give proper ID, is sure way for the cops, to take you in for a photo, finger prints, computer search, a cup of coffee, and some small talk. &quot;\r\n\r\nHow can you check for ID without first stopping someone, and what will constitute a reason to stop someone in the first place.  I can\u2019t think of anything else other than profiling to justify a stop and search.  That's too Gestapo, even for you mein kumpel.\r\n","author":"Pachuco","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-30 23:56:43","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:16","fileurl":""},{"id":142870,"heading":"Hey People Relax","article":"You people are getting bent out of shape over an issue that will resolve itself by 2016. As many of you may know 1998 was the year that the majority of births were to Latino parents therefore 2016 is the year that Latinos finally have a voice by becoming the majority of voters in OC and LA. In addition, by 2016 a majority of old racists will have undoubtedly died of natural causes thus turning the tide on this issue. However I still agree that we must keep up the good fight against injustice and racist policies. ","author":"2016","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 00:09:17","modified":"2005-12-31 00:09:17","fileurl":""},{"id":142884,"heading":"Cholo Juana?","article":"Back, in the 1970's I lived in Imperial Beach, and we itcalled Immoral Beach, then there was Chula Juana, Nasty City, Baja San Diego, Elcajoan, Lajalla,...\r\n\r\nBehavior, is one way to tell the difference between the undocs and the legals. For instance, most undocs behave in the manner of their old country, they will congregate in the streets, because they cannot produce documentation, proving them eligbile for employment, under US laws.\r\n\r\nI have a plan to seek out undocs, but is is a classified secret.\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 03:16:08","modified":"2005-12-31 03:16:08","fileurl":""},{"id":142887,"heading":"uh huh","article":"Seek them out and do what? Do your plans involve your firearm? Or yelling at people and pulling at anything they're wearing?","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 03:38:54","modified":"2005-12-31 03:38:54","fileurl":""},{"id":142903,"heading":"Cholo Juana","article":"Yeah, Cholo Juana is one of the names for Chula Vista AKA Cholo Vista and Chula Juana.\r\n\r\nI assume that an undoc would want to blend in and join in the customs of the city he\/she lives in.\r\n\r\nThe whole of East Los hangs out at corner stores and neighborhood spots and they are mostly citizens; it's a Chicano custom passed down from the Mexican culture.  This custom is practiced in all Chicano communities.\r\n\r\nI know several citizens and legal residents that hang out at the corner 7-11 near my crib cus they do side jobs.  My father-in-law is one of them and he's a citizen.\r\n\r\nAfter the fence is built, would you support legalizing the status of the undocs that are here?  Would you support a guest worker program?  Would you help Mexico address the problems that cause their citizens to leave in the first place by asking our Gov't to aid AMLO in reforming Mexico?\r\n\r\nIf we look at this as a continental issue and not a US versus Mexico issue we could probably solve the problem.","author":"Pachuco","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 16:42:12","modified":"2005-12-31 16:42:12","fileurl":""},{"id":142912,"heading":"East Los Angeles","article":"I bet Border Raven and the rest of SOS are chickshit to have a protest at East Los Angeles. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 18:46:51","modified":"2005-12-31 18:46:51","fileurl":""},{"id":142915,"heading":"how about Santa Maria?","article":"Let them come at strawberry or grape harvest time.\r\nThat would be a sight.","author":"Bruce","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 19:23:46","modified":"2005-12-31 19:23:46","fileurl":""},{"id":142920,"heading":"OH El Chivo HURRAH","article":"We have a common enemy.  The vile Tom Metzger.  \r\n\r\nI don't keep up on this guy, but if I recall, he is a criminal.\r\n\r\nNow, WHY do YOU know so much about him??? \r\n\r\nWe know you keep fascists quotes on hand.  That you have demonstrated. \r\n\r\nBut why lend any credence to the insane Metzger?  Why are you so fascinated, attracted, and drawn to him?\r\n\r\nPerhaps we have a case here of the proverbial moth attacked   to the flame?\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 20:51:13","modified":"2005-12-31 20:51:13","fileurl":""},{"id":142921,"heading":"MEXICO is the problem","article":"If the horrificaly corrupt Mexican government run by Fox TOOK CARE OF ITS CITIZENS - there would be no illegal immigration crisis.\r\n\r\nWhy don't activists focus on the REAL problem - the Mexican government.  And don't turn and say &quot;No it's the U.S. Government.&quot;  Sure the U.S. is far from perfect BUT do you see U.S. citizens illegally entering Mexico to live?\r\n\r\nBLAME FOX - CHANGE the MEXICAN GOVERNMENT","author":"BLAME Mexico first","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 20:56:52","modified":"2005-12-31 20:56:52","fileurl":""},{"id":142929,"heading":"Don't leave out the US","article":"The US is just as guilty as Mexico.  US Business interests are what keep Mexico corrupt.\r\n\r\nThere will always be unregulated migration.  The fence is only meant to shut up the Anties and distract us from real problems in Mexico and the US.  The border will remain as porous as Mexico and the US want it to be.\r\n\r\nBorder Raven, what's next on the agenda after the fence is built?","author":"Pachuco","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 21:52:56","modified":"2005-12-31 21:52:56","fileurl":""},{"id":142939,"heading":"Hey Pachuco","article":"Protest Vicente Fox and the Mexican aristocrats.  \r\n\r\nThe aristocrats pay almost no taxes in Mexico. It's absolutely corrupt. MEXICO should take care of their poor.  The Catholic Church should take care of the poor in Mexico - instead of shaking them down for money.\r\n\r\nMEXICO - protest THAT corrupt government!\r\n\r\nMexico should share its oil wealth with its people - instead of hording it for the wealth.\r\n\r\nThe Mexican government - should be overthrown by the people.\r\n\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-12-31 23:45:04","modified":"2005-12-31 23:45:04","fileurl":""},{"id":142958,"heading":"the agenda after the fence is built?","article":" mi amigas y cervesas y carne asada\r\n\r\n:)\r\n\r\n ","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 04:11:16","modified":"2006-01-01 04:11:16","fileurl":""},{"id":142968,"heading":"The agenda after 2016","article":"Getting rid of all the racists; starting with border raven.","author":"Aztlan","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 09:05:11","modified":"2006-01-01 09:05:11","fileurl":""},{"id":142986,"heading":"Minutewoman","article":"I agree with you Minutewoman that Mexico needs to change.  Even though, and I think you'll agree, there will always been unregulated migration, we can best help the majority of undocs by helping them eliminate the reasons that made them leave Mexico in the first place.\r\n\r\nI am highly critical of Mexico's government treatment of the indigenous and other human rights violations.  I see hope in their future if AMLO is elected president and only if the US aids AMLO in reforming Mexico.  The way it looks now, the US will probably do everything in its power to undermine AMLO\u2019s reforms.\r\n\r\nI have only opposed the way the Anties have addressed the problem of unregulated migration by using xenophobic fear tactics and misrepresenting the facts.  I do not oppose regulating migration and support open borders to some degree.\r\n\r\nA graver issue than unregulated migrations exists and most of us have not addressed it.  \r\n\r\nWhy do Mexicans find it necessary to leave Mexico in the first place? ","author":"Pachuco","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 17:43:48","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:17","fileurl":""},{"id":142992,"heading":"Getting rid of all the racists","article":"Look in the mirror asswipe. I'm guessing, by your persistence, that you must be one of Leslie Radford's students, or at least a student.\r\n\r\nIf you make a threat, be willing to back it, and make good.\r\n\r\n:\/\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 18:56:56","modified":"2006-01-01 18:56:56","fileurl":""},{"id":143011,"heading":"Give Up","article":"I give up Minuteman you got me. I am an antifascist antiracist reseacher. Reseaching on hate group like your organization who border watch with Tom Metzger.","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 20:51:00","modified":"2006-01-01 20:51:00","fileurl":""},{"id":143015,"heading":"Pachuco","article":"Basically, I agree with what you state - in regard to Mexico. \r\n\r\nHowever, I am for enforcing US immigration law.\r\n\r\nBUT  having said that, I will say this.  It is obviously the corrupt Mexican government that is at fault because when Mexicans live in the US they are successful.\r\n\r\nTo me, that is the  proof that it is the GOVERNMENT of Mexico - not the people of Mexico - that  is the problem behind  the border turmoil.\r\n\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 21:22:21","modified":"2006-01-01 21:22:21","fileurl":""},{"id":143016,"heading":"El Chivo NEVER Give up!","article":"El Chivo - don't give up!   NO!  \r\n\r\nWell, why can't we at least agree that we both despise Tom Metzger?\r\n\r\nCall me juvenile again, but don't give up!\r\n\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 21:27:42","modified":"2006-01-01 21:27:42","fileurl":""},{"id":143019,"heading":"Aztlan that's not nice!","article":"Not nice at all to say you want to get rid of Border Raven! \r\n\r\nBorder Raven is entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.  Certainly you would not deprive Border Raven  of the above, would you?","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 21:44:48","modified":"2006-01-01 21:44:48","fileurl":""},{"id":143023,"heading":"To Minutewoman","article":"Why didnt Jim Gilchirst denounce the neo nazi on his campaign? I heard there werere at least 2 neo nazi volunteering at his campaign office?\r\n\r\nalso, immigrate is not a problem why the US is lossing money. It's the the free trade agreement between US\/mexico. we have to stop the free trade globally. it is destroying our environment, ther are no human right and no worker rights. ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-01 22:58:28","modified":"2006-01-01 22:58:28","fileurl":""},{"id":143026,"heading":"Ningun ser humano es ilegal","article":"&quot;Border Raven is entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness. Certainly you would not deprive Border Raven of the above, would you?&quot;\r\n\r\nWRONG: \r\n\r\n&quot;EVERYONE is entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness.&quot;\r\n","author":"Aztlan","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-02 00:12:53","modified":"2006-01-02 00:12:53","fileurl":""},{"id":143031,"heading":"Minutemen on border watch with Tom Metzger?","article":"got proof?\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-02 01:09:31","modified":"2006-01-02 01:09:31","fileurl":""},{"id":143033,"heading":"inmigrantes ilegales ningunos empleo","article":"No employment for illegal immigrants.\r\n\r\nFor non-citizens who follow the laws here and you can find a job, have benefits, earn good pay, become a citizen, buy a house, start a business, etc.\r\n\r\nFor non-citizens who disobey the laws here, and you don't deserve to live here or work here, you deserve to be deported, so the people who follow the laws, can live free.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-02 01:21:11","modified":"2006-01-02 01:21:11","fileurl":""},{"id":143173,"heading":"hay gente ilegal - es el ley","article":"OK so then Border Raven IS entitled to life, liberty and the pursuit of happiness - NOT to be gotten rid of. \r\n\r\nWhat a relief.\r\n\r\n","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 05:23:05","modified":"2006-01-04 05:23:05","fileurl":""},{"id":143174,"heading":"To El Chivo","article":"I agree 100 percent with you on the free trade issue!!!!\r\n\r\nWhite nationalists are demented individuals.","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 05:26:31","modified":"2006-01-04 05:26:31","fileurl":""},{"id":143175,"heading":"To Border Raven","article":"Tom Metzger is a laughing stock.   He is a criminal - who would be banned from the MM - as I'm sure you are aware.","author":"Minutewoman","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 05:30:22","modified":"2006-01-04 05:30:22","fileurl":""},{"id":143178,"heading":"reply","article":"&quot;Why didnt Jim Gilchirst denounce the neo nazi on his campaign? I heard there werere at least 2 neo nazi volunteering at his campaign office? &quot;\r\n\r\nI'm not sure if they would be classified as Neo Nazis, but they are self described white nationalists from Stormfront. The two from Gilchrist's campaign I'm refering to, that you're refering to. They didn't have shaved heads. I'm not exactly sure what the distinctions are between white nationalists, supremacists, separatists, Nazis, Neo Nazis, skinheads, KKK members, etc.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 06:05:23","modified":"2006-01-04 06:05:23","fileurl":""},{"id":143179,"heading":"Tom Metzger","article":"I lived in San Diego County from 1967 - 1999.\r\n\r\nI know of Tom Metzger and WAR, from news stories.\r\n\r\nAnd you are correct, minutewoman, Tom Metzger, would not be welcomed at Gilchrist HQ, or any MMP event.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 06:19:51","modified":"2006-01-04 06:19:51","fileurl":""},{"id":143180,"heading":"reply","article":"But skinhead looking guys are welcome to pass out racist flyers blaming &quot;non-whites&quot; for problems at Gilchrist\/MMP events and rallies. Hey that's what happened in Sacramento when Gilchrist said &quot;we decided to let that go.&quot; The guy distributing flyers was as protected by the police from the protesters as we well. I'm not saying there's an affiliation or as welcome as in &quot;welcome!&quot; but the guy was basically allowed to pass out National Alliance flyers at the event.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 06:25:52","modified":"2006-01-04 06:25:52","fileurl":""},{"id":143182,"heading":"reply","article":"http:\/\/www.indybay.org\/news\/2005\/10\/1779577.php\r\n\r\nSee the third photo to see the flyer. I managed to get one of the full color ones. I had to get a &quot;white&quot; looking guy to get one since the skinhead guy wouldn't give me one. He said I wasn't elligible LOL. Ah shucks, poor me.","author":"Jammer CC","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 06:33:02","modified":"2006-01-04 06:33:02","fileurl":""},{"id":143183,"heading":"To Jammer and Minutewoman","article":"WS,WN dont have to have a skinhead. it's one part of a subculture. THey could have an embel or just talk to him and u got the hint if they belong to the WS WN group. \r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nMinutewoman, People of Mexico has been hurting by the free trade so they migrate up here. why dont you join our fight against free trade and such. \r\nand only a handful of politician know free trade is bad for our economiic and mexico's.  \r\n ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 06:55:32","modified":"2006-01-04 06:55:32","fileurl":""},{"id":143185,"heading":"NAFTA took my job to Canada in 1998","article":"I was working at a manufacturing company in Carlsbad, CA. I started in May of 1994. I heard through the coworkers, the company was in &quot;receivership'. We got a CEO in who really took an interest in painting and fixing the place. He even trimmed a few employees, from engineers, technicians and assemblers, saying, at the quarterly meetings how much money he saved the company and kept the rest employed. Then we got informed the company had been up for sale and had been sold to a Canadian company (our #1 competitor). After about 2 more years, in October 1998, I came to work and noticed some long and sad faces, I thought nothing of it, within two-hours, I was called to the HR office, and told, I was laid off. I had to sign a waiver of future employment, and got the files, and t two week severence check. I packed up my $2500 rollaway of tools and left. My tools have been in storage since that day.\r\n\r\nSo, if I seem angry over a few million illegal-immigrants invading my country, stealing jobs, and  lowering my income, please forgive me.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Border Raven","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-04 07:42:02","modified":"2006-01-04 07:42:02","fileurl":""},{"id":143683,"heading":"Border Raven","article":"Funny, sounds like you both are in the same situation.  I am curious why you don't join forces with others who have been screwed, and fix the problem.  Instead, you continue to vote for the two parties that cause this, and try to fight like hell to be the least screwed.  No offence, but you getting laid off is called Karma, what goes around comes around.  I hope you continue to get screwed again and again until you learn the consequences of your actions.  You deserve what you got!  That same old, \u201cWoe Me\u201d crap doesn\u2019t ring a bell when you are telling it to people that have had generations of this treatment by Western Powers.\r\n\r\nI can\u2019t wait till Mexico\u2019s new government (optimistic thinking), Venezuela, Bolivia, India, and China (and maybe Iran) officially join forces.  If this happens this country will be the one cut out of the manufacturing, oil, natural gas, technology, and investment capital.  If India, China, and the Middle East sell their US currency, that alone could crash this economy.  If Venezuela decides not to sell us oil, Bolivia cuts off our Natural Gas, and China refuses to sell us goods, the wealth of this country will simply disappear.  And it looks like it may very well happen.  Mexico\u2019s election is coming, and as a huge American importer AND exported, if an indigenous government gets elected (and there is a big chance they could), they could divert their buying and spending power south instead of north.  It could be poor Americans trying to sneak across Mexico\u2019s border for work, and I promise you that SOS, MM, and the other racists will be the first ones arrested and deported to the slums of the US.\r\n","author":"Anti-Racist","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-09 02:34:18","modified":"2013-11-11 00:37:24","fileurl":""},{"id":143747,"heading":"Logic","article":"Let's see... NAFTA allows a Canadian company to buy an American company.  A few rich people seal the deal.  So, therefore, Border Raven hates undocumented Mexican workers.\r\n\r\nNAFTA didn't open the borders to immigration.  \r\n\r\nMexican workers didn't own the company that got sold.","author":"Gab","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-09 08:56:34","modified":"2006-01-09 08:56:34","fileurl":""},{"id":143748,"heading":"Minutewoman... socialist?","article":"You should go to Mexico and support the indigenous rebels down there.\r\n\r\nTo support rebellion, the SOS and MMP should start training the undocumented about how to acquire semi-automatic weapons and modify them to become automatic.  Give them several cases of ammuntion, too.  Then, they can overthrow the government.\r\n\r\nBut, that's all pretty advanced. Maybe you can start by buying every jornalero a &quot;Ya Basta!&quot; t-shirt, and a copy of the writngs of Subcomandante Marcos.","author":"Gab","parent_id":142495,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2006-01-09 09:07:29","modified":"2006-01-09 09:07:29","fileurl":""}]}