{"article":{"id":131267,"heading":"BP2: Lesson in Movement Building (Revised)","author":"MUDP","created":"2005-07-01 22:34:28","modified":"2013-11-11 00:34:22","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:34:22","article":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><body><p>Baldwin Park Round Two <br>  <br> A lesson in movement building and keeping the peace by <br>  <br> any means necessary <br><br> There was a lot riding on the event that happened this <br>  <br> last Saturday, June 25th.  There was much more <br>  <br> activity going on aside from the presence of the <br>  <br> Minutemen\/SOS in Baldwin Park.  There was much more at <br>  <br> stake than simply protesting the Minutemen\/SOS, and <br>  <br> that was to make a significant effort to control our <br>  <br> own event, our own protest, build our own movement and <br>  <br> to support the local organizers from the Baldwin Park <br>  <br> community in their own struggle. <br><br> Within our own demonstration, which was surrounded and <br>  <br> contained by an army of police and separated from the <br>  <br> Minutemen\/SOS camp by approximately 100 yards we had <br>  <br> to be alert for anything that would disrupt the event <br>  <br> and allow the police (who were armed to the teeth with <br>  <br> assault rifles and much more) to repress our cultural <br>  <br> protest and our growing movement.  We understand well <br>  <br> from the experience of the Chicano Movement that <br>  <br> repression on behalf of the police is almost always <br>  <br> instigated by &ldquo;protesters&rdquo; amongst the people, whether <br>  <br> they are paid police agents or just plain idiots who <br>  <br> don&rsquo;t know what they are doing.  We also understand <br>  <br> that repression on behalf of the state has been <br>  <br> effective in destroying movements and the people&rsquo;s <br>  <br> fighting spirit and morale, especially when <br>  <br> organizations are not in a position to respond to <br>  <br> repression in an effective manner, either by legal or <br>  <br> other means.  So as organizers of the event, and <br>  <br> especially as security personnel for the event, we had <br>  <br> to keep the peace by all means in order for this <br>  <br> movement to grow and to keep the men, women and <br>  <br> children who attended from being hurt, beaten or <br>  <br> gassed by the police. <br><br> Errors and Lessons from Baldwin Park 1 <br>  <br> Due to the number of people who participated and the <br>  <br> lack of security for the event, Baldwin Park 1 was a <br>  <br> free for all event.  Certain organizations, such as <br>  <br> the International Socialist Organization (ISO) and <br>  <br> others who attended broke unity with the event and <br>  <br> split the demonstrations into two factions.  People <br>  <br> left the permitted protest area to confront the <br>  <br> Minutemen\/SOS face to face and ultimately put the <br>  <br> entire event at risk of being called an &ldquo;unlawful <br>  <br> assembly&rdquo; and repressed by the police.  Known agent <br>  <br> provocateurs such as Frank &ldquo;Mohammed&rdquo; Martinez, <br>  <br> dressed in Muslim garb were a part of this crowd and <br>  <br> eventually, some unknown person threw a water bottle <br>  <br> at the opposing side.  This and other undisciplined <br>  <br> acts compromised the whole event, but luckily, there <br>  <br> was no further response either by the police or the <br>  <br> Minutemen\/SOS.   Our concern here is not so much for <br>  <br> the safety of the Minutemen\/SOS, or a &ldquo;fear&rdquo; of the <br>  <br> police and their guns (which any unarmed person in <br>  <br> their right minds should have some fear of, especially <br>  <br> if you&rsquo;re Mexican or African), but for the <br>  <br> working-class people from the community who brought <br>  <br> their babies and their children with them.  Our <br>  <br> concern is  for these people who have never come out <br>  <br> to protest anything before, who are outraged enough to <br>  <br> begin to take a political stance at this particular <br>  <br> moment and who we need to protect in order so that <br>  <br> they can come out again to the next meeting or other <br>  <br> political function.  Our concern is for the future of <br>  <br> a movement we are trying to build which is the only <br>  <br> means we have to deal with people like the Minutemen <br>  <br> and the bigger problems we have and will continue to <br>  <br> have once they leave the scene. <br><br> Having learned from the errors of the first Baldwin <br>  <br> Park demonstration, the organizers of Baldwin Park <br>  <br> Round Two made the efforts to prevent these situations <br>  <br> from arising again.  In order to create an environment <br>  <br> which will allow for the community to come out of <br>  <br> their homes and participate in this protest, the event <br>  <br> was organized as a cultural event with live music, <br>  <br> teatro and pi&ntilde;atas.  It was agreed that since these <br>  <br> Minutemen\/SOS fear or hate our culture, or languages <br>  <br> and our history so much, we would counter-protest them <br>  <br> with our culture, our languages and our history.  This <br>  <br> would be an alternative to just yelling and screaming <br>  <br> at the Minutemen, which in fact, is what the <br>  <br> Minutemen\/SOS expected and what they wanted from us.  <br>  <br> They wanted us to yell and scream at them because they <br>  <br> are looking for this kind of attention.  So instead, <br>  <br> the organizers became creative and used culture and <br>  <br> art to protest these lunatics.  A team of artists, in <br>  <br> which renowned Chicana artist Judy Baca participated <br>  <br> with, created a powerful picket-sign display which <br>  <br> expressed the sentiments of much of what has been <br>  <br> discussed throughout these months of madness since the <br>  <br> Minutemen moved their lazy asses off their couches and <br>  <br> onto lawn chairs to observe &ldquo;Meskins&rdquo;.   This would <br>  <br> take away the focus from their pathetic protest and <br>  <br> would reaffirm the value and the worth of our culture <br>  <br> to our community.  This in fact was the most <br>  <br> revolutionary stance we could have taken this day and <br>  <br> is evident of new and meaningful tactics being used <br>  <br> which will allow for our movement to grow.   <br><br> Also, a security team was formed with the combined <br>  <br> efforts of the Harmony Keepers and Mexicanos Unidos en <br>  <br> Defensa del Pueblo along with others and a permitted <br>  <br> protest area was designated and announced to everyone <br>  <br> with the cautionary note stating that should anyone, <br>  <br> or any group protest outside of the designated area, <br>  <br> they would be on their own and would no longer be a <br>  <br> part of the organized protest and if they were to <br>  <br> leave the area, they were not to not be allowed to <br>  <br> re-enter our demonstration.  In other words, if they <br>  <br> were going to create a confrontation with the police, <br>  <br> they would deal with it themselves and would not bring <br>  <br> the community along with them.   <br><br> Having set the terms for how the protest was going to <br>  <br> take place, the event had gone much calmer and <br>  <br> smoother than the previous one and allowed for a clear <br>  <br> line to be drawn between a disciplined and organized <br>  <br> demonstration versus any other type of demonstration <br>  <br> which only invites for agent provocateurs to do their <br>  <br> thing.  As the culture and art took their place in the <br>  <br> event and took the focus away from the Minutemen a few <br>  <br> incidents took place which tested the emotions and the <br>  <br> discipline of the organizers and the protesters.  On a <br>  <br> few occasions, Minutemen and SOS members deliberately <br>  <br> walked either through the permitted protest area or <br>  <br> very near by the area, occasionally animating the <br>  <br> crowd.  Our security team was on the scene to tell the <br>  <br> police about these intruders and to calm down the <br>  <br> crowd in order to avoid confrontations.   <br><br> Also, the ISO or so called &ldquo;socialists&rdquo; and their sub <br>  <br> organizations had decided, for reasons only known to <br>  <br> them, to disunite with a Mexican\/Latino led event to <br>  <br> demonstrate on the other side of the taped-off area <br>  <br> which separated the permitted area of protest from the <br>  <br> non-permitted area.  All they needed to do was step a <br>  <br> few feet to the right in order to be in the permitted <br>  <br> area, but again, for reasons only known to them, they <br>  <br> chose to be on their own and disunite with the <br>  <br> cultural demonstration.  In a further show of disunity <br>  <br> and in an opportunistic manner they managed to pull <br>  <br> people out of our event and led a march toward the <br>  <br> police barricade, as if they were a part of the <br>  <br> demonstration and the coalition.   Their attempt to <br>  <br> animate the few people from the community who joined <br>  <br> them did not last long, especially after our security <br>  <br> team, using a bullhorn, warned the people that anyone <br>  <br> on the other side of the tape was not in a permitted <br>  <br> area of protest and were on their own.   <br><br> As if this form of disrespect wasn&rsquo;t enough, they <br>  <br> again went back to the main area where the cultural <br>  <br> demonstration was taking place to get some more <br>  <br> people, and marched back to the same un-permitted <br>  <br> location.  This time they had a few more people with <br>  <br> them.  At first the police did not seem to react to <br>  <br> this situation, so we did not make a big deal out of <br>  <br> it either.  But then it became apparent that the <br>  <br> police had called for back up, so once again, we <br>  <br> announced to them that anyone on the other side of the <br>  <br> tape was not in the permitted protest area, that these <br>  <br> people were instigators of illegal actions and that <br>  <br> they would only provoke a police confrontation.  All <br>  <br> they needed to do was be on the other side of the <br>  <br> yellow tape to do the same thing they were doing, but <br>  <br> without putting people at risk.  Apparently, most of <br>  <br> the people there weren&rsquo;t ready for a confrontation <br>  <br> with the police, so the &ldquo;socialists&rdquo; were left <br>  <br> wandering around on their own.  The fact that they <br>  <br> call themselves, &ldquo;socialists&rdquo; is a cruel joke because <br>  <br> if they truly had some type of socialistic <br>  <br> inclinations, they would unite with Mexican\/Latino and <br>  <br> colonized people&rsquo;s rights to self-determination and <br>  <br> would not attempt to factionalize and divide an event <br>  <br> in order to get people to join their protest.  Since <br>  <br> they are pseudo-socialists, (or maybe they are sincere <br>  <br> but they don&rsquo;t know what the hell they are doing) they <br>  <br> have no ability to recruit or mobilize the <br>  <br> Mexican\/Latino community on their own, so they <br>  <br> parasitically survive off the work of other <br>  <br> organizations and eventually take the credit as if <br>  <br> they did the work themselves.   <br><br> This has become even more evident in the articles and <br>  <br> summations that have come out after the June 25th <br>  <br> event, where these &ldquo;leftist&rdquo; organizations have not <br>  <br> given any mention or credit to the organizers of the <br>  <br> cultural protest.  Not once have they been <br>  <br> self-critical and mentioned that they broke unity with <br>  <br> a Mexican\/Latino led demonstration, nor do they give <br>  <br> any explanation as to why they behaved so <br>  <br> undisciplined and selfish.  Furthermore, not once have <br>  <br> any of these &ldquo;socialist&rdquo; groups addressed the question <br>  <br> of this land being stolen Indian and Mexican land, <br>  <br> which is part of the reason why the SOS have a problem <br>  <br> with the monument, and which furthermore does not set <br>  <br> the ISO too far apart from the Minutemen on <br>  <br> ideological terms.  Both groups are coming into our <br>  <br> communities to tell us what to do and what not to do <br>  <br> and neither are uniting with us on practical terms.  <br>  <br> The so called &ldquo;socialists&rdquo; luckily left our event to <br>  <br> go play into the hands of the Minutemen\/SOS by yelling <br>  <br> and screaming at them.  What was ridiculous is that <br>  <br> when the Minutemen\/SOS&rsquo;s permit expired and they ended <br>  <br> their demonstration, these &ldquo;socialists&rdquo; came back to <br>  <br> our demonstration claiming that they &ldquo;won&rdquo; because <br>  <br> they stayed there longer than the SOS!  These people <br>  <br> had no clue that the real battle was within the <br>  <br> Mexican\/Latino led demonstration. <br><br> One final provocation took place which could only be <br>  <br> summed up as a clear attempt to sabotage the <br>  <br> demonstration and provoke a violent confrontation, and <br>  <br> not between us and the Minutemen, but between us and <br>  <br> the police.  A Minutemen\/SOS supporter (or very likely <br>  <br> a police agent) had again walked nearby our protest <br>  <br> area, at a time when the event was at its peak in <br>  <br> terms of the number of people who were in attendance.  <br>  <br> This blue-eyed white male bearing a large American <br>  <br> flag hanging from a stick quietly walked by a crowd of <br>  <br> angry Chicanos and stood next to the police in the <br>  <br> same un-permitted area of protest where the <br>  <br> &ldquo;socialists&rdquo; had been an hour or so earlier. He did <br>  <br> not say a thing, he just walked by, and stood in one <br>  <br> place long enough for the angry young Chicanos to <br>  <br> gather around him and get even angrier.  Our security <br>  <br> team had been escorting him out in order to prevent a <br>  <br> provocation, but since at this point he wasn&rsquo;t <br>  <br> leaving, and the police weren&rsquo;t doing anything about <br>  <br> it, we had formed a circle around him. This <br>  <br> Minutemen\/SOS supporter\/police agent stood right next <br>  <br> to a line of police, so that if someone would have <br>  <br> thrown an object, or tried to push or hit him, the <br>  <br> police were right there to come down on the people.   <br>  <br>       Using a bullhorn, one of our security members began <br>  <br> to inform the crowd that they must calm down and get <br>  <br> behind the yellow line.  The security person informed <br>  <br> everyone about how this idiotic person was clearly <br>  <br> there to provoke an incident and cause for the police <br>  <br> to get involved.  People then hesitantly began to back <br>  <br> away, while the rest of the security team began to <br>  <br> tell the rest of the crowd to move back. <br>  <br>       After about 10 minutes of this, a fully armed platoon <br>  <br> of police dressed in riot gear, donning assault <br>  <br> rifles, shotguns and hand guns, arrived and placed <br>  <br> this person under arrest.  They could have easily <br>  <br> taken this person across the police barricade and <br>  <br> carried him away without any further interruptions, <br>  <br> but they chose to parade him back along side of the <br>  <br> area where the main event was taking place.  The angry <br>  <br> crowd of Chicanos, Mexicanos and other protestors <br>  <br> followed the police and the security team quickly <br>  <br> formed a buffer between the rifle yielding police and <br>  <br> the angry crowd.  This was an intense moment, <br>  <br> especially being in the middle of it all, for as you <br>  <br> looked to your right, you literally saw assault rifles <br>  <br> and police with their fingers on the triggers almost <br>  <br> in your face, and on the other side the emotional <br>  <br> crowd of Chicanos and Mexicanos who could barely <br>  <br> contain their anger.  We had to maintain the peace at <br>  <br> all costs.  The European-American\/Minutemen\/SOS <br>  <br> supporter\/police provocateur was eventually taken away <br>  <br> and the security team was quick to sum up this action <br>  <br> as a provocation by the state.  The crowd was informed <br>  <br> in English and Spanish how important it was for us to <br>  <br> remain peaceful and disciplined, and that this person <br>  <br> was only trying to create an incident in which the <br>  <br> police would have a reason to end the event and keep <br>  <br> it from being successful.  The fact that this incident <br>  <br> was conducted within the proximity of the <br>  <br> Mexican\/Latino led protest and not where the <br>  <br> &ldquo;socialists&rdquo; had been at the time, testifies to the <br>  <br> importance of our protest in that they attempted to <br>  <br> cause our event to fail. <br><br> This incident was what tested the character, the <br>  <br> organization and the discipline of the entire event <br>  <br> and we met the challenge successfully.  This is where <br>  <br> the victory occurred on Saturday, in that we were able <br>  <br> to maintain the peace and discipline by any means in <br>  <br> order for our people to struggle another day.  The <br>  <br> biggest enemy we faced on Saturday was not the <br>  <br> Minutemen, nor the SOS, nor even the colonial state.  <br>  <br> The hardest enemy to deal with is the internal enemy, <br>  <br> our lack of organization, our lack of discipline and <br>  <br> our lack of willingness to unite with other forces who <br>  <br> struggle for the same cause, which keeps us from <br>  <br> getting our shit together and which allows for the <br>  <br> state to do their job that much easier.  We succeeded <br>  <br> in building and controlling our own movement. <br>  <br> <\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","contact":"ricardo@mudp.org","link":"www.mudp.org","address":"","phone":"(760) 451-1754","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"This is a revised version of the first article published, &quot;Baldwin Park 2:  A lesson in movement building&quot;","numcomment":7,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2005\/07\/131267.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":131332,"heading":"&quot;nationalist&quot;? or liberal whiner?","article":"so this &quot;nationalist&quot; prefers that people follow judy baca's advice and &quot;turn their backs on hategroups&quot;?  well, while you have your back turned they're attacking the community.  Breaking unity? it sounds like you're united with the BP pigs who didn't want anyone to confront the racists.","author":"mayra","parent_id":131267,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-02 16:52:53","modified":"2005-07-02 16:52:53","fileurl":""},{"id":131358,"heading":"Response to ISO supporter","article":"What some people fail to realize is that the Minutemen\/SOS have the state behind them, so when you are confronting the Minutemen, the police will be the ones to respond, not these retired old racists who by themselves are of no threat whatsoever.  So how are you truly going to &quot;confront&quot; the Minutemen when there is an army of pigs between you and them? If people want to go ahead and do that, fine, just don't bring innocent men, women and children along with you when you do it.  That is what we are saying.  History proves this is a reactionary way of organizing, and you don't confront your enemy directly when they are stronger and better organized than you are.  They've got guns, and you've got water bottles.  That makes no sense whatsoever. \r\nThat is setting yourself up for failure.  And that is what pigs do, they set up a movement for failure, and they divide movements.  Now we aren't going to say all people who do this are pigs, but they sure as hell are acting like them, knowingly or unknowingly.  We choose to not set up our movement for failure but to choose our tactics appropriately for each battle.  This is what these so called &quot;socialists&quot; fail to understand.\r\nWhat is also looked over by these primarily white socialists is the importance and the power of culture.  Almost every revolutionary movement in Latin America, Africa, and Asia has understood the importance of culture.  White socialists have never been able to grasp this because they belong to a people whose culture has been based on stealing everything from everyone else.  They have no culture outside of imperialism, colonialism, genocide and theft.  Even when trying to organize in solidarity with other peoples, they do so in an arrogant and ideologically imperialistic manner.  They don't understand the importance of culture in a struggle, so naturally they will dismiss anything cultural or &quot;nationalistic&quot;.    Let me ask you, what is the ISO's position on the question of this land being stolen Indigenous people's land?  And this is the point we are trying to make, that Mexican\/Latino people should lead our own struggles.  That nobody else has the right to come into our community to tell us how to live our lives and how to free ourselves from our own conditions.  Neither the SOS nor the ISO.   We oppose all forms of white supremacy, be it capitalistic or socialistic. Freedom, self-determination and democracy has to be an organic process, otherwise it is neither freedom, self-determination, nor democracy.\r\n\r\n","author":"Siqueiros","parent_id":131267,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-02 21:50:54","modified":"2005-07-02 21:50:54","fileurl":""},{"id":131384,"heading":"Baldwin Park 2: Statement of a Harmony Keeper","article":"Baldwin Park 2: Statement of a Harmony Keeper\r\n\r\n    In Honor of All of you who made Baldwin Park 2 a unified and potent expression of the heart and will of our People . \r\n\r\nDear Sisters and Brothers;\r\n\r\nAs a member of the Aztlan Mexica Nation Harmony Circle \u2013 the Harmony Keepers \u2013 I want to thank all of you whose thoughtfulness, focus, spirit and power made Baldwin Park 2 a unified and potent expression of the heart and will of our People -- and we want to thank all of you who helped invoke and defend of the spirit of the land. Tlazocamati.\r\n\r\nWe came to Baldwin Park 2 embracing the spirit of the young Tongva medicine woman \u2013 Toypurinah \u2013 who united her people at a time when their ceremonies were threatened by the invading Spanish, and who led them to rise up in defense of their land of their self-determination.\r\n\r\nWe honor all who do likewise.\r\n\r\nWe are the red shirt people. You have seen us at Baldwin Park 1 and 2, and at Garden Grove, and at other batallas where the spirit and future of our people is in the balance.\r\n\r\nYou might have thought of us as \u201csecurity.\u201d But we are, in reality, something other than that.\r\n\r\nWe are a warrior society \u2013 an akicita, to use the term of the plains Indians \u2013 and our task is to safeguard the ceremonies and traditions, the cultural integrity of our Peoples.\r\n\r\nOur outlook is indigenous, our leadership is indigenous and our practices are indigenous.\r\n\r\nWe come to keep Harmony \u2013 our work is an extension of the purposes of our indigenous elders and spiritual leaders. All indigenous ceremony is focused on Harmony. Our task is simple \u2013 to assure that the balance and power in the ceremony \u2013 as led by the spiritual guardians of this land - remains undisturbed. We do so by keeping harmony in the environment in which the ceremony is taking place.\r\n\r\nSuch work requires, first of all, a will and an ability to extend oneself to respect all those present. It requires a consciousness of the subtleties of the energies of people, of the environment and of events. To keep the harmony one must be attuned to it.\r\n\r\nOur approach is, simply put, not European. It does not reduce to \u201csecurity\u201d - we are not security guards protecting anyone\u2019s property.\r\n\r\nWe do our work, not for the hatred of our enemies, but for the love of our People.\r\n\r\nWe consciously and at a very practical and direct level follow the leadership of indigenous elders and of the traditions that have been maintained in the face of over 500 years of genocide aimed at destroying those traditions.\r\n\r\nThe traditions are strong.\r\n\r\nThey have withstood every effort to eradicate them. Our purpose is to ensure their continuation. As Tia Oros of the Zuni people has pointed out, \u201cIndigenous peoples of the Americas live on intimate terms with the shadow of terrorism.\u201d\r\n\r\nIn their \u201cBasic Call to Consciousness: The Hau De No Sau Nee Message to the Western World,\u201d the \u201cIroquois\u201d people make it very clear: \u201cThe Indo-Europeans attacked every aspect of North America with unparalleled zeal. The Native people were ruthlessly destroyed because they were an unassimilable element to the civilizations of the West\u201d\r\n\r\nThey tell us that Spirituality is the Highest Form of Political Consciousness.\r\n\r\nWe are in accord with them.\r\n\r\nAnd the traditions teach us self-reliance. We rely on the spiritual powers, on the awareness of our People, and on ourselves.\r\n\r\nWe do not in any case rely on the powers of the state, or on the police powers of the colonizer to protect us. Five hundred years of genocide points clearly to the reality that we cannot, under any circumstance, depend on our oppressor for our well being, much less our liberation or rights to self determination.\r\n\r\nOur purpose has never been and will never be to \u201ctell the police about...intruders and to calm down the crowd in order to avoid confrontations.\u201d\r\n\r\nFinally, while we sought to avoid any situation in which riot police might be brought down on our people in a situation in which our children were present, we respect all forms of struggle, and those who engage in them. There were strong and heartfelt reasons why our people cheered and saluted the bravery of our returning warriors that day in Baldwin Park.\r\n\r\nWe respect all of you who came with good hearts, and recognize that, in the end, everything worked together, weaving a whole, in the way of nature, that comprised a ceremony of depth and dimension, one that honored the land and the ways of all our peoples.\r\n\r\nIn the Spirit of Toypurina,\r\nA Harmony Keeper\r\n\r\nAuthor: A Harmony Keeper","author":"Ixachilanca","parent_id":131267,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-03 03:14:20","modified":"2013-11-11 00:34:23","fileurl":""},{"id":131400,"heading":"Another View","article":"I'm not sure if we're talking about the same demo here.\r\n\r\nThe cultural event was a temporary alliance between the City, cultural nationalists, and artists.  The forces of the state were actually allied, temporarily, with the forces of resistant cultural nationalism.\r\n\r\nThe artists and performers were not all cultural nationalists either.  In fact, the organizing forces appeared to be opposed to cultural nationalism and favored eclecticism.  The City wanted something multicultural, but mainly, I think, something quiet.","author":"johnk","parent_id":131267,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-03 04:47:28","modified":"2005-07-03 04:47:28","fileurl":""},{"id":131404,"heading":"A Xican@ View","article":"Whatever tactical leeway the state gave to the demonstrators - and let's be real - people of all persuasions were at the center of the event and down the way bravely confronting the enemy .\r\n\r\nThe police were in no way allied with the community, and tried to provoke violence from those attending the cultural \/ political event. \r\n\r\nThey did so not only by parading an antagonist past the crowd - see Leslie's story on the main page - but also on other occasions when reactionaries showed up.  If only by taking a hands off attitude while the Nazis tried to provoke confrontations.\r\n\r\nThey gave these people - including one armed with a club - free rein to come among us, while keeping our people as far as they could from the Nazis.\r\n\r\nThey needlessly arrested 23 of our  people, mostly for walking on the tracks - a ticketable offense, at best.\r\n\r\nThey stood joking with the Nazis while, on the other hand, they harrassed us.\r\n\r\nThe Nazis got escorted to their cars, while, as our event closed, we were threatened with a sweep of arrests and with having the ceremony declared an illegal assembly.\r\n\r\nThat's why the SOS had nothing but praise for the police. No matter how many provocateurs they sent to molest and threaten  us, they walked free. No matter how minor the infraction,  we went to jail.\r\n\r\nIt should be needless to say that the &quot;anti-terrorist&quot; political police were all over us filming _everyone_ they could for hours.\r\n\r\nThe mayor only  supported the monument openly after the political \/  electoral  consequences of _not_ doing so were made clear to him.\r\n\r\nIt should also go without saying that all the piggishness was done under the mayor's authority. There is no such thing as a mayor who cannot control his pigs.\r\n\r\nBy the way, to my knowledge there were no cultural nationalists involved at all.  \r\n\r\nThere were political nationalists with a socialist bent, Mexican day laborers, MEChistas, a smattering of Brown Berets,  Mexican socialists, anarchists of several stripes, white socialist groups, and Xican@ indigenists, who politically tend to fall in the broad category of Zapatista supporters.\r\n\r\nAnd of course the vast majority - who belonged only to the community, their people, and their families and friends.\r\n\r\nPerhaps the closest thing to a cultural nationalist was the Mexica Movement - but they played no role in the organizing of things or in the cultural aspects of the event, and remain an anomoly in the broader  Xican@ indigenist movement - although I have to say that their signs, like their &quot;Not Latino&quot; Tshirts, were great.\r\n\r\nAll that said, the MUDP lack understanding of key matters. If there were no possibility of directly confronting the state or its paramilitary storm troopers like the Militia \/ Minutemen, then no demonstration worthy of the name would have occurred in the last 50 years.\r\n\r\nIt's spirit and politics - its understanding the political limitations that their so-called &quot;democracy&quot; and their fear of alienating the middle class put on them. _All _ effective action from the oppressed requires creativity. (It was a very creative day.) It's not who has the guns. This is not warfare, it's politics.\r\n\r\nThey're right though, in a broad sense, anyway, about the disrespect that groups like the ISO show in our community. \r\n\r\nIt goes way beyond tactics, though, and I think the criticisms about confronting the SOS fiends is shallow, at best, rigid as hell at worst.\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n","author":"Observer","parent_id":131267,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-03 06:29:15","modified":"2005-07-03 06:29:15","fileurl":""},{"id":131453,"heading":"I stand corrected","article":"I used the blanket term &quot;cultural nationalists&quot; to lump together a range of positions ranging from political nationalists to indigenists.  I should have been more refined and not played into the divisive narrative.\r\n\r\nAlso, I didn't distinguish between the police and the state, but mainly thought of the city position as the driving force.  This was a pretty weak analysis, because the tensions between the interests of the city, police department, and even individual officers, are often at odds.\r\n\r\nStill, there is no denying that the state, as a form of authority, is willing to accommodate its adversaries for its own interests, and vice versa.\r\n\r\nThe event still stands as a strong unification of different people with different ideas.  The creativity of the event, as well as the connections made for its planning, and the planning for future actions, seems like it's productive.\r\n\r\nThis discussion is productive too.  Having different perspectives up is instructive.  Thanks to everyone who is contributing to these discussions.","author":"johnk","parent_id":131267,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-04 00:20:11","modified":"2005-07-04 00:20:11","fileurl":""}]}