{"article":{"id":130697,"heading":"Report from Save Our State","author":"1planet1people","created":"2005-06-27 05:48:56","modified":"2013-11-11 00:34:14","last_modified":"Mon, 11 Nov 2013 07:34:14","article":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><body><p>This article is from the Save Our State website.  Don, whom refers to himself as &ldquo;Old Preach,&rdquo; writes an article explaining his perspective of today's events from behind the lines of Nationalism, Isolationism, and Global Apathy. <br><br> --------------------------------------------------------- <br>  <br> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=2856\">http:\/\/www.saveourstate.org\/forums\/index.php?showtopic=2856<\/a> <br><br> Generally speaking, it is a good day when NO ONE gets hurt.. I mean that for both sides. Actually, I rather enjoy speaking to the 'other side' if you will, if it is a reasonable discussion, and we keep our passions in check. It is hard to do sometimes. And, for some folks, it seems harder than for others. <br><br> The numbers I counted were as follows...about 50 SOS\/CCIR and others. perhaps 60 at the peak. Media of course wandered about, so it was a challenge to keep recounting while discounting them.  <br><br> 400 goons (counterprotesting types) in eventually 2 groups. One my the monument, and one down by the corner of Pacific and Downing. I assume that the PD shut off the valve at some point as the CP's approched our location, hence a cut off, and then 2 groups. As per my prediction, the PD was not very interested in letting a large group face us again. They let a smaller group face us of about 50, but when a large group, perhpaps 150 arrived, they sent the 50 to join them. They CP's were not allowed in our proximity. Bogus really, since I think it would have been ok to let us at least face off to some extent. I get the feeling that the BP PD and powers that be are not interested in letting us do so for many reasons, including safety. I wont tip my hand on the other reasons...sorry folks, every one has trade secrets !  <br><br> Of particular interest to me today were the lime green hatted ambulance chasers. Fist of all, let me say that new hats are in order. Lime green is terrible. It just does not do even the attractive ones justice out there. Belive it or not , fashion is important out there! I choose only hats that maximize my already very sexy presence. Second, it is comical to me that at least 6 chasers decied to join the ranks of the sometimes babling crowd. Do not get me wrong, there are some good folks on your side, and I would really like to talk to some of you. But some of you all , i mean really! Can you at least not lump us all into this 'racist hate monger' camp ? I oppose only illegal immigration. That does not make me by default a racist just becuzz you all feel that there should be no border. Think it thru for a change, and try to be more reasonable. I would love a 'world without borders', but this is just pie in the sky as long as there are those that would come into the USA and just wipe us all out. You all would be screaming for help if we opened up this country to all that would come here...it would be complete chaos, even if only those that didnt want to destroy this place came here. Do not any of you believe that without the militray protecting us, that we would be over-run by those that want our country for themselves, and do not have any intention of sharing it? So, it is just amazing that they law boys and girls decide to be there for a group that has so many thugs in it. <br><br> Regarding who we call Marvin the Martian becuzz of his resembling the warner brothers character in the bugs bunny cartoons. He always wears a black riot helmet, big protective shades, and carries a black and red 'sandinista? flag.... we chanted for his appearance. We saw him coming to our local early, but then no Marvin. Eventually , we looked behind us, and there he was ! The police would not let him thru. I moved quickly to ask them to let him in, becuzz without him, it is just not the same! We really enjoy his antics. Well, all of a sudden, he is on the ground being arrested ! Bogus. I assume it was for non-compli ? Anyone knows , plz let me know... I suggested a 'free Marvin' vigil at the PD, but everyone was hungry at that point , and wanted to go home too. Does anyone know 'Marvin's' real first name ? <br><br> Ok, so the police presence was staggering, I am sure you agree. Arrests were made of people that decided to smeak thru the train track area. Another arrest was made when someone tried to smeak around a police line. I am never big on arbitrary arrests that are trivial in nature. We did chant various things when one guy was dragged off in front of us...then again dragged the other direction in front of us! What a humiliating experience for him! Anyway, he looked rather thugish, so we really did not have much sympathy. Sorry, many of you would have done the same! Not that this justifies anything, but it was very fun to chant 'ole, ole, ole, ole, go home...go home' to one on your side for a change! <br><br> It is not even a question that local biz suffered. Some even were closed for the day on what was there busiest day. Get this one thing straight : this is the fault of the dunce mayor Lazano, and his goons. He said at first, on film , that he would like to see the racist lang on the monument come down, and then when he saw that he had no support , he pulls a John Kerry. Well, he is getting what he deseves now! Local biz owners will fry him for this. Can you imagine... streets shut down for hours. Major intesections closed, close to 200 LEO and ghetto birds deployed, and all they do is issue a 'resolution' stating the it stays! Truely amazing. Politickin at its finest! A true thug of a mayor interested in his own advancement..  <br><br> You all need to get rid of him before he tries something else like the lame permit bit. I know you all hate that like we do, so on one thing we very much agree on. <br><br> I , like most of the others there today, live in the county of Los Angeles. We are no more 'outsiders' than most of you. I grew up on these streets and they are mine also. I am very comfortable on them. Its a glove like fit for me.  <br><br> We are not going anywhere. We will continue are fight against all forms of racism and double standards. Yes, the National Vangaurd showed up. Is there really anything we can do about it ? We gave them a hard time, and they moved away from us as much as they could. The police would not let them go anywhere , and we are under the impression that there is not much we can do to make them leave. They have their rights i assume , just like you all do, and we all do. Once again, like is stated on the www.saveourstate.org web site, we reject ALL reacist\/sep orgs and their various disgusting doctrines. I am not white, and so they reject me from joining their ranks, even if I werer to express an interest. That SICKENS me. I am offended by those that take in consideration race over character, by those that feel the way one is born is of merit. It is not over any merit. Especially sickening is the thought that since my wife is white , that they would accept her and not me! I do not think I would mind it if they wanted to join our side on this cause if they just kept there lame racism to themselves and just went out there as American. They just can not seem to do this, and they come with shirts on that have their web site on it , and even pass out their hate fliers. Sigh....we are doing all we feel we can to discouage them, and when I see them there, i cringe and start to boil becuzz they just can not be civil about it. They just spew out the racism. <br><br> This is not a complete reporting. Just to tired for that right now.<\/p>\n<\/body><\/html>\n","contact":"","link":"","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","summary":"Even the SOS members stated that many of the arrests at Baldwin Park against counter demonstrators could have been arbitrary.","numcomment":19,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/2005\/06\/old_preach.jpg","filesize":"3.0 kibibytes","article_url":"\/news\/2005\/06\/130697.php","image":{"original":"\/uploads\/2005\/06\/old_preach.jpg","small":"\/uploads\/2005\/06\/old_preach.jpgthumb.jpg"}},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":130730,"heading":"That's just their nice face","article":"Screw SOS.  The above is not representative of the racist garbage all over their message boards.\r\n\r\nAll I read there were some self-congratulatory posts, and the usual hate talk.\r\n\r\nThey say they hate white supremacist groups -- but then why the hell did they come back to BP to carry out a racist protest?  They are totally out of touch with the underlying logic of this protest.  They're idiotic &quot;team players&quot; fighting for the wrong cause (the cause of increasing racism and strengthening nazi groups).","author":"Friend of One","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-27 15:18:03","modified":"2005-06-27 15:18:03","fileurl":""},{"id":130743,"heading":"Public relations effort?","article":"> Screw SOS. The above is not representative of \r\n> the racist garbage all over their message boards. \r\n\r\nI get the impression that much of what the SOS\/MM\/Whatever white is intended as public relations spin, targeted not for their own members, followers, supporters, and participants but for non-racists.\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rice","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-27 17:11:46","modified":"2005-06-27 17:11:46","fileurl":""},{"id":130776,"heading":"Marvin the Martian","article":"I think it is apparent that conversations between Preach and Marvin the Martian would be entertaining.  Despite the entertainment value I think people who are concerned about SOS will do best by completely ignoring them.\r\n\r\nDON'T COUNTER-PROTEST!!\r\n\r\nSOS needs attention, just like the precocious, undisciplined child who yanks his mommy and daddy around by throwing a tantrum.\r\n\r\nI believe, and I beg, that SOS be isolated by apathy.   Organize, gather, protest, just not near SOS demonstrators.  This kind of bizarre thinking cannot survive without attention.","author":"Randall","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-27 21:25:00","modified":"2005-06-27 21:25:00","fileurl":""},{"id":130779,"heading":"FREE Marvin the Martian","article":"When is the vigil?","author":"FREEMARVIN","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-27 21:53:40","modified":"2005-06-27 21:53:40","fileurl":""},{"id":130794,"heading":"TO SOS","article":"if SOSer are so patriotic why dont you guys goto the military service. if you guys were in military service, why dont you guys re-enlist in the military service. They need  people to join because they dont have that much people joining right now.  They need you guys especially joseph turner. Are you guys chicken shit or what.      ","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-28 01:10:45","modified":"2005-06-28 01:10:45","fileurl":""},{"id":130796,"heading":"El Chivo - El Chickenshit","article":"Hey asshole, many of us ARE military veterans.  Why dont YOU join the military, sissy-boy?\r\n\r\n","author":"Ya Basta","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-28 01:48:32","modified":"2005-06-28 01:48:32","fileurl":""},{"id":130814,"heading":"Hey 1p1p","article":"Thanks for bumpin my little contribution to the front page...shows you have a class side to you ... somtimes! No, really. Some days I think there are 2 of you...one day nice, one day a bit nasty and unreasonable. One day on, one day off? I dont know.\r\n\r\nFred....no, it is not just spin. Just writing from the heart cuzz I thought some of you would be interested in the what the brain under the sexy Uncle Sam hat is thinking since I am on the 'dark wind' side of thinks. Or , maybe I am just guilty of wishful thinking. I really like reading what the other side writes, IF it is  reasonalble and thoughtfully written.\r\n\r\nOh,  btw, to the guy that screams not to counter protest... you  and I both know that there is no way on earth that will ever happen. Yes, our little tantrum as you call it is in full swing. But  just know this, some of us would basically rather be dead than to suffer under the hand of repression. OUr anger is at the powers that be, the corps, and Mexico for the most part.   Our anger is really not towards those that hate the USA per say. Those that hate the USA are down the list a bit.\r\n\r\nI will throw further tantrums if they serve our cause! Wah wah wah !","author":"littlebopeep","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-28 04:29:26","modified":"2005-06-28 04:29:26","fileurl":""},{"id":130883,"heading":"Why aren't they in Iraq?","article":"> Hey asshole, many of us ARE military veterans. \r\n\r\nThat's no excuse for why you're not in Iraq right now helping your Fuhrer &quot;liberate&quot; innocent Iraqis.  Now more so than ever your Fuhrer needs you!  I mean you are the guys who are always claiming you &quot;support our troops&quot; and you support Bush's &quot;liberation&quot; and &quot;Democracy&quot; in Iraq.\r\n\r\nSo why aren't you guys in Iraq helping spread Democracy?  Why are you standing on street corners with such wonderful patriots like National Vanguard and Storm Front?\r\n\r\nYou support Democracy and liberation in Iraq, don't you?\r\n\r\nWell sign up and ship out, soldier!\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rice","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-28 19:44:51","modified":"2005-06-28 19:44:51","fileurl":""},{"id":130967,"heading":"To Ya Basta","article":">>Hey asshole, many of us ARE military veterans. Why dont YOU join the military, sissy-boy? \r\n\r\nI dont care if you are a military veterans. why dont ya re-enlist again dipshit? SOS are carrying the usa flag. r u afraid to join the military?  \r\n","author":"El Chivo","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-29 14:03:01","modified":"2005-06-29 14:03:01","fileurl":""},{"id":131000,"heading":"littlebopeep","article":"I am just giving both sides.  This does not mean that I am for you.  I was looking at pictures from 1inch and I saw that he took some really good pictures of three stromfront people that came to your event (one guy with two girls).  Nonetheless, this is supposed to be independent media.  If you spent the time to write up articles, I am sure the collective would put it up as an opposing side.  Because you aren't taking the time, I did it for you.","author":"1planet1people","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-29 16:55:00","modified":"2005-06-29 16:55:00","fileurl":""},{"id":131003,"heading":"Looking for Little Bo Peep","article":"(This is a repost so that I might be able to get a response from Little Bo Peep)\r\n\r\nResponse to D \r\n\r\nI figured out who you were because you\u2019re the only half way reasonable person on the SOS board and you\u2019re also the only halfway reasonable SOS supporter here.\r\n\r\nI will address your questions, but first let me say this:\r\n\r\nI do attend these protests and help organize them. I\u2019ve been to the last 5 (including Victorville). That\u2019s how I know first hand that white supremacists attended BPII. I know for a fact through tracking the Stormfront message board that the man in the white helmet is National Vanguard (by the way, there is a picture of you standing awfully close\/talking to that guy on the SOS board).\r\n\r\nMy guess is that there were more than 5 white nationalists there simply because they stated on the Stormfront message board that they would try to \u201cblend in\u201d with SOS. . So 5 NV wore shirts (that\u2019s not blending in), many more may have tried to blend in with you guys.\r\n\r\nAs for your questions of me. . . To my knowledge the NCLR is not an activist organization (I may be wrong) and are not sending people to these protests. From what I can tell they are an advocacy group formed to work for the betterment of \u201cHispanic\u201d people. Growing up in L.A. I can tell you that, although I don\u2019t speak Spanish, the term La Raza loosely means \u201cthe people\u201d NOT \u201cthe race\u201d as in racial supremacy. To me it seems like the attacks on NCLR from your side really came out of left field. It\u2019s almost conspiracy theory stuff.\r\n\r\nAs for MEChA. I\u2019m not an expert on MEChA, so maybe somebody could correct me. But since I was asked, I\u2019ll respond. I was never a member of MEChA but back when I was in college I did know people that were. My understanding is that it is a student club whose real goal is to help young Chicanos get into college and succeed. Is that a threat? The slogan: \u201cfor the race everything, for those outside of the race, nothing?\u201d was from the \u201860s, it\u2019s not the motto of MEChA. And I don\u2019t believe that it\u2019s the ideology of the individual clubs, which are all independent of one another. Again, for me, that attack on came out of left field. It seems like \u201cLa Reconquista\u201d is something you guys are obsessed with, not us.\r\n\r\nOk, sometimes people on our side of the line yell \u201cgo back to Europe\u201d to you guys. That is a reaction to what you guys are doing. You guys want people sent back over the border and reading the SOS board it should be noted that the words \u201cillegal\u201d and \u201cMexican\u201d are sometimes used interchangeably. And you guys march into Baldwin Park with signs like \u201cThis land is my land and it will never be your land\u201d and the majority of people opposing you are US citizens. What kind of a reaction are you going for? Every American has a different experience and has every right to express that experience as it happened to them.\r\n\r\nAnd then you have signs like No La Raza (La Raza with a line through it, inside a circle). Everybody is not in on your conspiracy theory. That signs is racist! I\u2019m not surprised she hasn\u2019t brought it back (or has she?).\r\n\r\nAnd the rhetoric on the SOS site says that most of the people coming out to oppose you are part of the \u201cinvading hordes\u201d. Some SOS folks cant\u2019 figure out who\u2019s who so they just call everybody \u201cillegal\u201d. That\u2019s racist! And it\u2019s a lie! You guys need to face that fact that lots and lots of American citizens oppose you guys, your tactics and your message.\r\n\r\nThe SOS attacks are felt by more than just undocumented people . . . you guys are really offending many, many Latinos, lots of whites, blacks and Asians, indigenous people, liberals, anarchists, socialists, etc. Besides, I\u2019d estimate that the vast majority (95%) of the SOS opposition was born here.\r\n\r\nNow there are individuals that oppose you guys that have signs like \u201cEuropeans are illegal since 1492\u201d, \u201cThe Pilgrims were illegal,\u201d etc. These signs aren\u2019t racist; they are simply reminding people of the history of this country that unfortunately cannot be forgotten (and shouldn\u2019t be). SOS did not happen in a vacuum.\r\n\r\nShouldn\u2019t we look at things in historical context? Our culture in America implores us to forget the past but a lot of people simply can\u2019t.\r\n\r\nI\u2019d like to continue this via e-mail but am afraid if I leave my e-mail address here, I\u2019ll be flooded with hate mail.\r\n\r\nC ","author":"Chop Chop","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-29 17:18:31","modified":"2013-11-11 00:34:21","fileurl":""},{"id":131031,"heading":"Another huge defeat for IndyMedia hippies","article":"Another huge win for the good people of SOS and a humiliating blow to the hippies, freaks and radicals of IM.\r\n\r\nIt must be frustrating to have so much hate and racism inside you and have just 60 or so SOSers completely steal the spotlight from you.  :(  Sorry hippies.","author":"American Dude","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-29 21:44:22","modified":"2005-06-29 21:44:22","fileurl":""},{"id":131034,"heading":"The Holy Grail & King  Author","article":"     After removing the arms and legs of a knight who deared to challange the King's Progress on his quest with the edge of his sword  in combat, the knight ( now pumping glood from all stumps) screams at the back of the King as he continues his  travels, &quot; Come bach here you yellow bastard and I'll bit off your knesscaps!&quot;","author":"Narrator to this Thread.","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-29 22:29:39","modified":"2005-06-29 22:29:39","fileurl":""},{"id":131054,"heading":"Defeat","article":"Quote:\r\nAnother huge win for the good people of SOS and a humiliating blow to the hippies, freaks and radicals of IM. \r\n\r\nIt must be frustrating to have so much hate and racism inside you and have just 60 or so SOSers completely steal the spotlight from you. :( Sorry hippies.\r\n---------------------------\r\nWhat planet are you on?  Your goal was to have the monument removed.  The city council passed a resolution the day before your protest further protecting it for generations to come.  Further, the mayor came out (on OUR side) and promised the people that he would work to make sure the people of Baldwin Park were victorious against the SOS Outsiders.  It looks like the extreme support for the monument strengthened the city's position to ignore you.  Now would you please explain how it is that WE were defeated?\r\n","author":"1planet1people","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2005-06-30 01:36:53","modified":"2005-08-15 03:13:57","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2005\/06\/mc.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2005\/06\/mc.jpg"}},{"id":131064,"heading":"Another Pathetic Effort by SOS","article":"Another huge win for the good people of IMC and a humiliating blow to the haters, paranoids and internet addicts of SOS.\r\n\r\nIt must be frustrating to have so much hate and racism inside you that only 60 show up to support your demo, and a tenth of them are Nazis.  If it weren't for fraidy-cat symps in the LA Times, you wouldn't get so much mileage :(","author":"johnk","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-30 04:33:34","modified":"2005-06-30 04:33:34","fileurl":""},{"id":131065,"heading":"1planet1people","article":"Please contact the legal team in GG.  If you don't know their email address, drop a note to info@la.indymedia.org (it's working again), or contact someone at CCM or Duane Roberts for contact info.  Someone wants your tapes.","author":"johnk","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-30 04:35:51","modified":"2005-06-30 04:35:51","fileurl":""},{"id":131464,"heading":"hello, 7 months ?","article":"&quot;t must be frustrating to have so much hate and racism inside you that only 60 show up to support your demo, and a tenth of them are Nazis. If it weren't for fraidy-cat symps in the LA Times, you wouldn't get so much mileage :(&quot;\r\n\r\n\r\nSOS has been around 7 months, hello ? We know you are jealous and basically soiling your pants about now. Without us, you all would be watching scooby doo or something.","author":"little bo peep","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-04 02:45:58","modified":"2005-07-04 02:45:58","fileurl":""},{"id":131465,"heading":"chop chop, if you are still listening","article":"The white helmet guy is white sep to be sure. He is new to the protests, and I cant say i like the idea, but he keeps it out at least, unlike his friends.\r\n\r\nI have to disagree major with the 'conspiracy' stuff. They  yelli it endlessly, wear shirts that say 'stolen lands' on the back and on and on and on and on. I just  do not see how you do not see it.\r\n\r\nSome SOS protest supporters are not really that involved with us. I can not speak for their behavior no more than you can speak for the behavior of the young man that threw the bottle that hit D. Dalton in the head.\r\n\r\nThat said, I can say that bouth our sides can not police everyone...most of the SOS folks that I have met  are just typical people upset by the chaos caused by the USA policly of open borders. I have met reasonable folks on your side as well, and enjoy talking to them. I guess I do not see 2 sides per say as much as I see people. I hate the freaks on  BOTH sides. Can not type anymore...fingers gone.\r\n\r\nI am not afraid of the hate mail. If you want, you can email me at \r\n\r\nsfvcc1@yahoo.com","author":"little bo peep","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-07-04 02:59:34","modified":"2005-07-04 02:59:34","fileurl":""},{"id":133921,"heading":"Food for Thought","article":"The easiest way to deal with them is just to ignore them and they will run out of steam.","author":"IMCista","parent_id":130697,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-08-01 06:52:13","modified":"2005-08-01 06:52:13","fileurl":""}]}