{"article":{"id":129366,"heading":"Save Our State Minutemen Death Threats and More","author":"Fredric L. Rice","created":"2005-06-17 13:34:23","modified":"2006-04-26 00:57:49","last_modified":"Wed, 26 Apr 2006 07:57:49","article":"<!DOCTYPE html PUBLIC \"-\/\/W3C\/\/DTD HTML 4.0 Transitional\/\/EN\" \"http:\/\/www.w3.org\/TR\/REC-html40\/loose.dtd\">\n<html><body><a href=\"http:\/\/www.sgvtribune.com\/Stories\/0\">http:\/\/www.sgvtribune.com\/Stories\/0<\/a>,1413,205~12220~2923630,00.html <br><br> Here's a brief summation of a meeting in Baldwin Park which took place yesterday wherein City members detailed terrorist death threats telephoned and emailed into their offices and (presumably) personal residences  by the hundreds, allegedly by Save Our State \/ Minutemen and their supporters.  Large numbers of hate filled, racist phone calls and emails were received by City members. <br><br> And SOSMM claims their message isn't about racism or hate.  Does anyone believe it? <br><br> Apparently running over a bunch of peaceful protesters with a van and hundreds of people threatening to assignate politicians is acceptable \"anti-illegal immigration\" behavior while throwing a plastic water bottle -- which very well could have been thrown by an SOSMM member or supporter; nobody knows who threw it -- constitutes \"domestic terrorism.\" <br><br> Curiously, I would like to see a reward offered for the capture and arrest of whoever it was that threw the water bottle -- provided Hal Netkin is also re-arrested and indicted for vehicular assault.  Fair is fair, and it seems to me to be likely that the bottle thrower was an SOSMM member or supporter. <br><br> Now these are my opinions, and my opinions only yet when a group of people whip up hundreds of other people to engage in terrorist death threats, isn't that incitement to violence?  And when a group of people motivate someone to run over peaceful protesters with a van, isn't that also incitement to violence? <br><br> Any way, my opinions are irrelevant.  Check out the San Gabriel Valley Tribune article and even contact the Baldwin Park CCity members and check out what these SOSMM people are all about. <br><br> <a href=\"http:\/\/www.sgvtribune.com\/Stories\/0\">http:\/\/www.sgvtribune.com\/Stories\/0<\/a>,1413,205~12220~2923630,00.html <br>  <br> \n<\/body><\/html>\n","contact":"frice@skeptictank.org","link":"http:\/\/www.sgvtribune.com\/Stories\/0,1413,205~12220~2923630,00.html","address":"","phone":"","parent_id":0,"mime_type":"text\/plain","summary":"Save Our State \/ Minutemen supporters telephone and email hundreds of terrorist threats while woman who was struck by a plastic water bottle calls the Constitutionally guarenteed right to protest against racism &quot;domestic terrorism.&quot;","numcomment":22,"fileurl":"\/uploads\/","filesize":null,"article_url":"\/news\/2005\/06\/129366.php"},"attachments":[],"comments":[{"id":129371,"heading":"Join us at BP2","article":"SOURCE: http:\/\/www.splcenter.org\/intel\/map\/hate.jsp?S=CA&m=3\r\n\r\nJoin these groups that support the Minutemen and SOS at Baldwin Park on June 25th\r\n\r\nAmerican Patrol\/Voice of Citizens Together\r\n\r\nNational Alliance\r\n\r\nCalifornia Coalition for Immigration Reform\r\n\r\nThese are known HATE GROUPS that are affiliated and share joint membership with SOS & the Minutemen.\r\n\r\nThe hoods are off!","author":"Pachuco","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2005-06-17 14:10:57","modified":"2005-08-15 03:12:58","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2005\/06\/infestation.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2005\/06\/infestation.jpg"}},{"id":129417,"heading":"More drool","article":"LOL, more propaganda crap.  No one in SOS phoned or emailed any threats.  You disgraced yourselves and the rest of the nation is pissed about it.  Baldwin Park woke up a lot of people who were up to now not very informed about the new terrorists in America:  the open borders lobby and Mexican Nationalists.\r\n\r\n","author":"Anti-Indy Media","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-17 20:41:29","modified":"2005-06-17 20:41:29","fileurl":""},{"id":129441,"heading":"More SOS inbreeding","article":"The article clearly explains that city offices and officials have been receiving death threats that suggest some association with the SOS\/nazi ilk.  These inbreeders are the real embarrassment of this country and we sure as hell, white, black and brown, will kick their ignorant cracker asses of califonia.\r\n\r\nO-dall-lay... ","author":"nazis suck","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 01:31:49","modified":"2005-06-18 01:31:49","fileurl":""},{"id":129442,"heading":"correction","article":"---that's OUT OF CALIFORNIA!\r\n","author":"nazis suck","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 01:33:58","modified":"2005-06-18 01:33:58","fileurl":""},{"id":129462,"heading":"&quot;Inbreeders&quot;??","article":"Dude, that's hilarious.  What planet are YOU on?  And what's with all this archaic Nazi references?  Are you idiots living in the real world?  I know many anti-illegal immigration activists and not one of them is what can be associated with a &quot;Nazi&quot; and certainly not inbred.\r\n\r\nDopes...","author":"LOL","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 03:04:36","modified":"2005-06-18 03:04:36","fileurl":""},{"id":129463,"heading":"BP2","article":"I only have one thing to say.  The SOS members are either real brave or real stupid for going back to BP.  The word is out, and every group out there from ANSWER to the smallest grass roots community organizations is planning on attending.  National and local newspapers are even talking about a confrontation.  I know that most of &quot;seasoned protestors&quot; that they have experienced so far are largely restrained, but this is could bring people out of the woodwork by the thousands, people that have never protested, and do not know the ropes as to what is allowed and what is not.  Further, the city is not on their side and recognizes their attempts to wage economic terrorism against the city itself (as stated by Joe on his website).  I have been to hundreds of political events, and I do not have the guts they have.  Actually, I don't think anyone does, yeah, they are just plain stupid.  They are going to spew hatred, incite a riot, and cry like babies to their cross burning friends.  I think we have discovered the Charlie Manson of our generation, trying to start the race war.  I am just glad that the &quot;race&quot; these racists are starting it with already have strong progressive ties with all people, from all walks of life.  There will be no race war as I will not turn on my Chicano\/Latino\/Mexican friends, by brothers and sisters of the human race.  My guess is that the SOS Mansonites of today will find, is that the only thing they are fighting, is American Values like Diversity.","author":"A Purple Fly On The Wall","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 03:20:30","modified":"2005-06-18 03:20:30","fileurl":""},{"id":129464,"heading":"A Detail","article":"&quot;No one in SOS phoned or emailed any threats.&quot;\r\n\r\nI'm pretty certain this is true.  What people take issue with is that you're all creating the conditions that encourage this kind of harassment.\r\n","author":"johnk","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 03:25:31","modified":"2005-06-18 03:25:31","fileurl":""},{"id":129466,"heading":"I am pretty sure it is NOT true","article":"When the GG protest was in the works, one of the people working it put his email address out there, and was FLOODED with threats and racists slander.  The SOS people are not the sharpest, but many of the emails went right back to them.  Now that they are doing this to politicians, I am sure we will soon know who each of them are.  I am sure many of them will be getting a knock at the door from federal agents, and they will get nice accommodations at a tax payer paid facility.  These things take time, but as I said above, these people are just plain stupid.  The ACTUALLY think that because a few thousand racists (Stromfront, Aryan Nation, KKK, among others) send them emails of support, that America is behind them?!?!  These brain dead idiots will wind up in prison, or place themselves is such a stupid situation that something will happen to them, before they even realize it.  I am waiting for them to go to somewhere like Baghdad and hold up signs like \u201cWhite Pride World Wide\u201d and \u201cWe Kicked Your Ass Far and Square\u201d.  They are just THAT stupid\u2026  The more I know about them, the more I laugh. ","author":"A Purple Fly On The Wall","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 03:43:47","modified":"2013-11-11 00:34:03","fileurl":""},{"id":129485,"heading":"Ahhh...","article":"I stand corrected.\r\n\r\nI gave them too much credit.\r\n\r\nIt's one thing to get in a crazy flame war in public, but, sending a private hate mail is almost like calling them up to threaten them.  It's some craziness.","author":"johnk","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 05:04:19","modified":"2005-06-18 05:04:19","fileurl":""},{"id":129490,"heading":"seeing who links to who and whois queries shows it too","article":" See who links to KIRKBYTV.COM\r\n\r\nAltaVista found 10 results  \r\n\r\nSave Our State  \r\n\r\nThe Welch Report\r\n\r\nPatriotic Music. Ron Paul's Liberty Committee. American Opinion Books and Flags. Radio Liberty, Dr. Stanley Monteith\r\n\r\n\r\nAmericans for Legal Immigration Forums-viewtopic-U.S. BUREAU OF IMMIGRATION and CUSTOMS  ENFORCEMENT  Help Fight Illegal Immigration\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nMexicans or Terrorists? - The Battle for Baldwin Park - TEAM AMERICA PAC\r\nFounded by Congressman Tom Tancredo: The Defense of a Nation Begins at It's Borders\r\n\r\n\r\nSean Hannity Discussion - Minutemen vs MECHA\/Aztlan Movement - America at War  Minutemen vs MECHA\/Aztlan Movement. Wonderful people, huh?\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nLP: Must See Video of Baldwin Park Riot\r\nLiberty Post: Must See Video of Baldwin Park Riot\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\n\r\nBaldwin Park riot by illegal aliens screaming 'go back to Europe', May 14, 2005 - THE AMERICAN RESISTANCE FOUNDATION\r\n\r\n\r\nBaldwin Park rally video\r\n&quot;I attended the Baldwin Park event as a news videographer for an independent program. The \r\ncoverage we obtained was incredible, thanks to you folks. We were particularly impressed by the fellow screaming &quot;Zarqawi! Yes! Yes!&quot; and &quot;Intifada!&quot;\r\n\r\nfreerepublic.com\r\n--------------------------------------------------\r\n\r\nI wonder if this &quot;independent&quot; photographer will dare show his face again at a protest now that we see him on freerepublic bragging about how he fooled the &quot;riot&quot; so he could get footage to *use against us* - funny in said footage we see orderly, staying behind the yellow tape, not in the street, not giving him a hard time protesters called rioters on far-right-wingnut websites, and funny how all these racist hate groups are linking & lying then getting on here and DENYING it - when a simple search shows otherwise...\r\n\r\n","author":"Hex","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 09:04:04","modified":"2005-06-18 09:04:04","fileurl":""},{"id":129525,"heading":"Probably NOT by known SOSMM member","article":">> &quot;No one in SOS phoned or emailed any threats.&quot; \r\n> I'm pretty certain this is true. What people take issue \r\n> with is that you're all creating the conditions that \r\n> encourage this kind of harassment. \r\n\r\nI wouldn't expect that a SOSMM member -- a founder or one of their ilk -- would be stupid enough to make terrorist death threats over the telephone or through email since I'd expect that even people with IQs of around 80 are capable of understanding that such things can easily be traced, even going through anonymous remailers and utilizing public telephones -- it's a matter of _degree_ of traceability and a matter of cost only, not a matter of technical ability or inability.\r\n\r\nBut what the Baldwin Park's politicians are finding is that SOSMM supporters, defenders, members, participants, advocates et al. have been doing is sending them violent terrorist death threats and the Baldwin Park Mayor has asked the FBI to get off their asses and go after these racist terrorists.\r\n\r\nThe SOSMM hate mongers apparently (to me, any way) strive heavily for deniability of all responsibility for the hatred, bigotry, and violence they allegedly foment.  They whip up the ignorant and the clowns with IQs less than 80 who _aren't_ aware of the fact that their telephone calls and emails are easily traced and they wind up doing their terrorist work for them by proxy, in my opinion.\r\n\r\nVery convienient; keeps the RICO charges down to a minimum, keeps the ringleaders out of prison, and throw-away supporters, defenders, participants et al. get a mild slap on the wrist.\r\n\r\nAgain, this is all my own opinions and I could be mistaken.  But I doubt the SOSMM ringleaders actually picked up the telephone on any of this.  Even rightards with IQs of 80 are smarter than that, inmy opinion.\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rice","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 14:34:11","modified":"2005-06-18 14:34:11","fileurl":""},{"id":129533,"heading":"Richard Lamm","article":"Isn't Lamm the same guy who, while Governor of California, also advocated a die-off of old people so we wouldn't continue to consume scarce resources?  ","author":"Pachamama","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 15:53:32","modified":"2005-06-18 15:53:32","fileurl":""},{"id":129540,"heading":"Typo!!!!","article":"I said &quot;Governor of California&quot; (duh), meant to say &quot;Governor of COLORADO.&quot;   ","author":"Pachamama","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 15:58:36","modified":"2005-06-18 15:58:36","fileurl":""},{"id":129554,"heading":"However left wing clowns ARE too STUPID","article":"To know better.\r\n\r\nhttp:\/\/swarmtheminutemen.com\/","author":"STOPSOSMMP","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 16:40:34","modified":"2005-06-18 16:40:34","fileurl":""},{"id":129555,"heading":"Sending out an SOS","article":"Join!","author":"Join!","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"image\/jpeg","created":"2005-06-18 16:44:19","modified":"2005-08-15 03:12:58","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2005\/06\/join_.jpg","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2005\/06\/join_.jpg"}},{"id":129560,"heading":"Cross burner claims he's not racist","article":"http:\/\/www.dfw.com\/mld\/dfw\/news\/nation\/11900307.htm\r\n\r\n> &quot;Just for the record, Greg Bess is not a \r\n> racist,&quot; Bess said before the election.\r\n\r\nThis is kind of amusing.  Sounds so very familiar.\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rice","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 17:01:59","modified":"2005-06-18 17:01:59","fileurl":""},{"id":129564,"heading":"Fredic Rice","article":"I wouldn't expect that a SOSMM member -- a founder or one of their ilk -- would be stupid enough to make terrorist death threats over the telephone or through email since I'd expect that even people with IQs of around 80 are capable of understanding that such things can easily be traced, even going through anonymous remailers and utilizing public telephones -- it's a matter of _degree_ of tractability and a matter of cost only, not a matter of technical ability or inability. \r\n------------------------------------\r\n\r\nOn Joe's racist website, he &quot;thought it was the funniest thing he has ever heard&quot; when someone yelled a threat of assignation against Senator John McCain.  That by itself is a MAJOR felony.  I, being the good citizen I am, emailed Senator McCain, with a copy of his statement and a link to his page.  I am sure the FBI has been involved for a while, and you have to read their site often, but they have made many public terrorist threats against many different people, and I email the people each time I see them, and give potential victims of terrorism the heads up.  Usually, they are already aware of them (which makes me think the FBI is watching them closer then I am).  These ARE coming from their people.  Some have methods they THINK hide them, but they don't.  And it is funny to see how much people DON\u2019T like them, the republicans think Joe is another McVeigh, and the Democrats, well, they think the same.  My guess is that most of them will be in prison before the MMP gets off the ground.  Then we can focus on them and not the poser SOSers.\r\n","author":"A Fly On The Wall","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 17:31:25","modified":"2013-11-11 00:34:04","fileurl":""},{"id":129585,"heading":"Woops!  My mistake.","article":"Okay, my mistake.  I guess these people really _are_ that stupid.\r\n\r\nAmazing.\r\n","author":"Fredric L. Rice","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"text\/plain","created":"2005-06-18 19:17:20","modified":"2005-06-18 19:17:20","fileurl":""},{"id":129684,"heading":"Terrorist Threats","article":"A member of a group I belong to also received a terrorist threat from a person claiming to be a Diane Chavez <deportallillegalsnow@yahoo.com>.\r\n\r\nWe know it is not Diane Chavez, but from an SOSMM identity thief.\r\n\r\nOther members of our group have gotten emails with viruses after posting their email addys as contacts for anti-racist activities.\r\n\r\nKeep terrorists out of L.A. - denounce the SOSMM.","author":"Pachuco","parent_id":129366,"mime_type":"image\/png","created":"2005-06-19 16:25:06","modified":"2005-08-15 03:12:59","fileurl":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2005\/06\/la_flag2.png","image":{"original":"\/usr\/local\/www-domains\/la.indymedia.org\/public\/uploads\/2005\/06\/la_flag2.png"}}]}